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View Full Version : OT: Timing: "Valerian"



jeric_synergy
07-29-2017, 10:35 PM
or is it "Location"?

"Valerian" will be hard pressed to make back it's investment, so it seems. Speculate: Would they have done better to launch in France, with its built-in audience, and build up some buzz before 'going wide', or did they just have the bad luck to go up against "Dunkirk", et al?

"Dunkirk" seems to moi not to be a real competitor for the same viewer, so I discount that. Pour MOI it was more 1) unfamiliarity with the 'property', and 2) the anti-charisma of the leads. Frankly, they both look like callow teen-agers, despite DeHaan being 31 (!?!?) and Delevigne being 24. ---I'm kinda past "coming of age" stories. (/sarc)

I always appreciate seeing innovative art-direction (and am a Francophile), so am looking forward to this eventually, because I feel that 'Hollywood' art direction has become too inbred and self-referential. There's some wacky sh!t in those trailers.

Philbert
07-30-2017, 12:23 AM
I believe it's timing and the fact that not many Americans know the graphic novels. I know I had never heard of them until the movie. It's quite possible that it does very well in France where people grew up with it. I can't wait until I can see it personally.

jeric_synergy
07-30-2017, 02:02 AM
We'll never know, but if France goes crazy for it, I think they would have been better served by letting French enthusiasts try to sway the rest of the world. Friendly crowd and all that.

Still, those leads: they just look too young. (YMMV.) Are the characters in the graphic novels so young?

wingzeta
07-30-2017, 02:06 AM
I want to see it, but the leads are badly cast if you've ever seen the comics. They are decent actors, but look sickly compared to the comic characters. Valerian is more of a dashing, athletic type, with a bit of humor, and Loraline is more curvy (Barbarella-ish) and clever, and not rocking the waif with racoon eyes look. Luc Besson is a big fan of the comic, so I'm not sure what he is thinking straying so far on the casting. It looks like the comic characters became junkies. Maybe heroin chic is hot in France right now.

Yes, the characters look older in the comics.

Philbert
07-30-2017, 02:07 AM
I agree when I first saw the trailer I thought it was a kids movie or something. I immediately thought of Ender's Game.

ianr
07-30-2017, 07:31 AM
Well i'm Glad someone started this thread, we are late in the U.K. to Show this?

Why the rest of the world BoxOffice B.O. is not in yet? Will it get a Chinese release?

For Us here it looks bloody gorgeous in trailers, maybe Gautier on Costumes again,

that wonderful 'Mobeius like draughting in the design' seems to be stylistlically &

affirming with what Besson did the 'Fifth Element' which I feel was a great job for

Bruce Willis & a slightly flawed masterpiece. But to return to here with 'Valerian'

Story is KING. The WORD is ALL. it generates belief in the characters as you ALL know.


a) Timing is all, These points are part of a turkey? Or are they not?

b) Cara is a model ( Sucide Squad) ,Dana looks TOO young, may be they

cannot carry full driven Leads yet?

C) Rotten Tomatoes have done hatch job on it,it seems ?

D)Large strong Summer tentpoling films carried off the audience

according to some pundits, like the Apes movie,SpiderMan & Dunkirk.

E) I agree about a Euro Release to gather momenteum into a roll -out

but we don't know the distrib deal on this Guys?

EuroCorp ( Besson large Franco Studio) has caught a cold with some recent U.S. material

While 'Lucy-'Scarlett Johansson' globals where $ 495 mill B.O. also 'Taken series'- Liam Neeson


I'll post after I watch it, if I may

P.S. Cinefex Issue 154 will cover it on F/X tech.

roboman
07-30-2017, 08:00 AM
The fx were great. The acting/casting was ok. The script was weak and written to drive a political point and not tell a great story. I think the year long build up to a movie release leaves you expecting a lot, maybe if I had seen it with out seeing the ads for a year I wouldn't have gone in expecting a great movie and would have been content with it. The ads left the feeling of an epic movie and it just wasn't. It is worth seeing for the fx.....

Markc
07-30-2017, 08:40 AM
It makes a change to have an original film.
I look forward to seeing it.

Personally I am getting fed up with constant Sequels/Prequels/Reboots/Remakes (I know it's coz they are probably money makers, but it's nice to have some new content).

Ok, this is a bit contradictory, but I am looking forward to Blade Runner (but that is a good 35 years between the original).

jeric_synergy
07-30-2017, 09:53 AM
Original art direction is always welcome, and Besson does have a certain je ne sais quoi in that department. He knows who to hire.

I'm a fan of Jack Vance, and one thing I liked about his SF stuff (The Demon Princes, "Galactic Effectuator"), beside the wonderful antique language, is the quotidian nature of his stories: it's NEVER apocalyptic, it's just someone doing their job, in space, with blasters.

CONSTANT apocalypse is >>BORING<<. I'm lookin' at YOU, Star Trek. That is why ST2 is the best one: it was personal.

What would be interesting is a property that would support a series, but NOT be a "end of the world" scenario Every Damn Time. Even Star Wars isn't literally apocalyptic-- it's more like "the government will SUCK for many decades/centuries if we don't win this fight", not "all life will be sucked out of the universe".

Heck, "Tales of Venusian Terraforming" could be good, and not even need a personalized villain, just Nature. Maybe throw in some profiteering.

magiclight
07-31-2017, 01:49 AM
I just say Luc besson! it can be great or it can be a total disaster, when he is involved in the script it feels like it's written by a 10 year old, if he stayed out of that it could be good, usually he manage to get half a movie good, Fith Element, half is pretty good the other half is the worst piece of crap ever, the first Transporter was ok, the second was total rubbish (again, like it's written by a 10 year old), I hope he don't mess up, the comic is good, especially the first 10 or so, now he has not written "City of a thousand planets" but looking at the trailers he has messed up the original script pretty bad, and as already said, the casting could be better.

Zerowaitstate
07-31-2017, 03:46 AM
I just say Luc besson! it can be great or it can be a total disaster, when he is involved in the script it feels like it's written by a 10 year old, if he stayed out of that it could be good, usually he manage to get half a movie good, Fith Element, half is pretty good the other half is the worst piece of crap ever, the first Transporter was ok, the second was total rubbish (again, like it's written by a 10 year old), I hope he don't mess up, the comic is good, especially the first 10 or so, now he has not written "City of a thousand planets" but looking at the trailers he has messed up the original script pretty bad, and as already said, the casting could be better.

I love this director

5tht Element still sits in my top 5 Fav films,

I think this will be all eye candy, story meh who needs it.

ianr
07-31-2017, 04:20 AM
MEH, if this tanks Eurocorp could fold which would
hurt the French film industry enormously,now thats a story

Ģ

ActionBob
07-31-2017, 07:53 AM
I found the film to be okay. Bad in some respects. As one reviewer put it, "what a beautiful burning pile of trash."

This is just my opinion, but I thought the visuals were fantastic, the story eggshell thin (and basically a poorly executed Avatar premise) with main characters who were wooden and unlikable. Other than a few interactions with the female lead, I found both protagonists to be poorly written and executed.

I don't think it qualifies as a saving grace, but the tertiary characters were the most fun and Rhianna was fun to watch. It had a couple of scenes which were pretty good and the visuals were fun. But aside from that, I would probably put it on par, but slightly above Independce Day: Resurgence. Now that movie was a stinker. Not only did I not care about the story, but the visuals in many of the shots were just not up to snuff.... Lighting mismatches, poor animation (with regards to the vehicles, some of the creature stuff was fun) and bad compositing screamed "crappy CGI."

I had no real intention of viewing Valarian, but then I saw the 9 minute intro sequence and thought, "hey this might be pretty cool." As soon as the main characters were introduced, my first thought was, "Uh oh."

Story, story and story make for an enjoyable experience more than all this CG drivel... I am more impressed by films and television series where you don't notice the CG (background work, extensions, etc....).

Anyway, that is just my opinion. I am sure a lot of peeps might like it, but walking out after the movie, I turned to my girlfriend and said, "Well, i like Bubble."

Cheers.

-Adrian

ActionBob
07-31-2017, 08:06 AM
Having watched the trailer for Ready Player One, I am worried about that film as well. Having read the book (and loving it), I really have mixed feelings about the spectacle that it has to be. It might be sensory overload with all the visuals and nostalgic pop-culture references they are going to throw in. I will be seeing it regardless and hopefully my fears will be extinguished.

We'll see.

-Adrian

jeric_synergy
07-31-2017, 09:34 AM
RPO, I didn't even like the book that much.

JamesCurtis
07-31-2017, 12:59 PM
Valerian was great, at least as far as the fx eye candy goes. Story could have been a little better, and I think that the 2 hours and 20 minute length of it was a little too long. When I first saw the trailer, I wasn't sure what to make of it either. Still enjoyed it for the most part though.

jeric_synergy
07-31-2017, 04:47 PM
Now that I've seen the comic book Valerian, I'm even more baffled by the casting: the actor is not really robust enough to carry it off, visually at least. Hard to believe he's 31.

FWIW, Harrison Ford was 39 when they shot "Raiders of the Lost Arc". They don't make 'em like they used to.

Now, Matthew McConaughey as Randall Flagg/The Man in Black? Genius casting.

ianr
08-02-2017, 07:59 AM
Sure Jeric, That is why Bruce Willis (Captain Laconic) was such a good pick for '5th Element',

his laid back kool style was just the right metre there, in all that wild mad opulence.

Bill Carey
08-02-2017, 03:38 PM
It makes a change to have an original film.
I look forward to seeing it.

Personally I am getting fed up with constant Sequels/Prequels/Reboots/Remakes (I know it's coz they are probably money makers, but it's nice to have some new content).

Ok, this is a bit contradictory, but I am looking forward to Blade Runner (but that is a good 35 years between the original).

I agree and I do intent to watch in hires at home, it looks beautiful. Am I the only one that whispers 'don't screw this up' every time I see the Blade Runner trailer?

jeric_synergy
08-03-2017, 12:59 AM
Sure Jeric, That is why Bruce Willis (Captain Laconic) was such a good pick for '5th Element',

his laid back kool style was just the right metre there, in all that wild mad opulence.

Interesting take: I think you're right.

I just loved the downright Baroque visual elements in 5thE, very different than what I'm getting here. I think it boils down to "French". Nice to get a break from all the damn Hollywood. And the Russian stuff lately is off the hook in a wild way too. Me likee.

jeric_synergy
08-04-2017, 03:32 PM
Wittering on.... The name of the comic book series is "Valerian et Lauraline". Chopping it down to just "Valerian" reminds me of the pointless, POINTLESS, and ill advised IMO shortening of "John Carter of Mars" to "John Carter".

Somehow @^@ that REALLY changes things.

V&E is a buddy movie. Or at least "Action-Rom". "Valerian" is just, well, "James Bond in Space". Very different feel.

"John Carter" is just Noah Wiley in "E.R.". "John Carter of Mars" gets an automatic context.

ianr
08-07-2017, 09:09 AM
I agree I was living abroad ( Crete) when Sir Rid popped up

the original, I was just one day back when wife & I when to see this

incredible, but credible world in Blade Runner 1. From a beach

in the Geek islands to that in 48hrs blew me away, that Rutger

wrote that reminiscence in the rain & Sir Rid put it in,whew!

My jaw hit the floor,I was so Shelley-ish ( Mary) in a good way.

I Wonder if they have the cojones to roll it like Ryan's appearance

in 'Drive', I hope they do, cos the Hero has a 1,000 faces, and

we need to get a grip on charactorial empathy inside Summer

Sci-fi 'tentpoles', it has been lacking of late. I await to see?

ianr
08-08-2017, 06:52 AM
4 Jeric & other discerning Cineasts

It’s okay but not great, but there are plenty of great things in it! But it’s like Mr.Besson has squashed down
his summer suitcase packed with soo much kit that the zip breaks and out cascades his surfeit ofcharacters,
jumpy ‘nurnied’ and instanced sets, flashy gorgeously designed aliens with never a line to say, a plethora of
too many ideas, many with no gestation time in story arc and with no particular place to go?
In fact, there are lots of snaps meaning breaks in the scenarios, & so much so that they do not telegraph an
audience’s curiosity to pull them through this 136 mins of run-time.Plus a just plain boring cinema poster as
well from such a great design auteur, who signed that off then. Wha?

With soo much rich jumbled trappings here, that less creative storytellers will borrow alot to put to use in the
future I’m sure. For us, the prologue opener on planet Maal with ‘the Pearls tribe’ in their albino Masai look,
has a lovely Kuoni holiday on an Alien Seychelles island feel to it, partly built by Roger Dean & an off-day Dali,
for a cousin world of the Na’vi . This opener was fine, although even early on the dialogue tripped up with
subtitles. It looked stunning right up to the time when the sky cried well-scaled Houdini explosions, when
our Luc crashes into it a 'Babylon 5' death ship! What?

From then on it was much of, wait for it, ersatz derivatives of ‘oh I’ve seen that design piece before in So-So's
movie' and that was just some purloined bit ruining otherwise a good object. Why reference everybody else’s
stuff (Lucas/Cameron) when you have been such a strong ‘imprinteur’ before? It smacks of a ‘everything but the
kitchen-sink’ desperation that I found in things like say, way-back 'Van Helsing' from pile it on, boys Mr.Summers
and more recently in 'Ghost in the Shell'.

The Misfire advise of not first releasing strongly in All-Europe to give it web momentum & re-jig after that for
U.S. market was a faux-pas! But Incidentally, I see it has Chinese backing so I hope it gets released in China,
as it has a Sino-Soviet (our-era) capsule in there. Maybe with such a sector release they can rescue some much
needed box office dollar’s?

Harsh, yes, because I loved the Gallic silliness of '5th Element'.In this CG has hi-jacked Mr.Besson the director!
For God’s sake Mr.Luc, digital clutter is not More, but it is rapidly becoming a digital turn-off! You must get
stronger editors instead of Yes-Men who will argue a point to hold on a beat or two. Get your sticky hands out
of the writing with a clunker script.Employ say, Snr.Del Toro writing under a pseudonym; Spielberg did it with
Tom Stoppard; for next time let things breath! Also bring back Jean-Paul for that slick couturier look of House
of Gautier, or at least Thierry Mugler’s House, not good enough in French costumier design circles was this?

But then you, Mr. Besson where constantly cross cutting trying to cover up the big disconnect between two
unbelivable chancers who should not have tried to punch above their acting weight. In-fact Cara sweety,you
really should have given the role up to Rihanna, but that would have burst your Bubble?

jeric_synergy
08-08-2017, 08:21 AM
:D Excellent verbiage ianr, merci!