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View Full Version : Extend or what it's called along normal ?



madno
07-22-2017, 04:44 AM
Hi,

searching for a way to extend edges in a way that the new edges move along normals. I don't know if that description is right at all, so hope the screenshot explains it (after the action there should be a new edge loop, not the existing one moved).

137435

I tried with selecting edges -> hitting E -> convert selection to point -> point nomal move. But that did not work (selected points did not move at all).
Thanks for any idea.

prometheus
07-22-2017, 04:58 AM
Hi,

searching for a way to extend edges in a way that the new edges move along normals. I don't know if that description is right at all, so hope the screenshot explains it (after the action there should be a new edge loop, not the existing one moved).

137435

I tried with selecting edges -> hitting E -> convert selection to point -> point nomal move. But that did not work (selected points did not move at all).
Thanks for any idea.

I do not think there is a tool natively to move those edges along normal, I think you should skip hitting extend, and instead use edit edges to both add an edge first, then move it along itīs normal.
Edit..convert to point after extending and edge and then first move the points in or out ..that will make point normal move work, but itīs twitchy.

prometheus
07-22-2017, 05:08 AM
However, I would also not use extend in such middle area, that would cause issues with overlapping geometry, as I said before, using edit edges to first add an edge loop, then move slide it with the same tool is one alternativ, that will slide the edge along the normal, not pushing it outwards from that polynormal, there is also an approach to simply select the poly loop area where you initially wanted to extend the edge, and simply use "l" for connect and that will make an edge loop, so select that poly area and hit "l" and then directly switch selection mode to points or edges, and if you then use the point normal move tool, it will push the points away or inwards in relation to that polygon normal..on contrary to move and slide Along that normal poly surface.

madno
07-22-2017, 05:45 AM
Thanks, seems so there is no direct way to extend the edges outwards. Did it now with extend edge and translate tool and eyeballing. Translate tool is quite nice for this.

prometheus
07-22-2017, 05:56 AM
Thanks, seems so there is no direct way to extend the edges outwards. Did it now with extend edge and translate tool and eyeballing. Translate tool is quite nice for this.

which translate tool? translate plus?

Kryslin
07-22-2017, 07:57 AM
If your edges are a continuous loop, wouldn't pressing "e" (extend plus), selecting your action center as "Selection", and using Scale ("H") work? They'll scale outward from the center of the selection.

Also, you could turn your edge loop into a polygon, use bevel, with a negative inset, then delete the extra polygon.

There are ways...

madno
07-22-2017, 09:01 AM
which translate tool? translate plus?

Nope, the new one from LW 11.x (or was it 12.x?)

prometheus
07-22-2017, 11:47 AM
Nope, the new one from LW 11.x (or was it 12.x?)

there is no "translate" tool in lightwave 2015.3 even,(except for move under translate) there is however the transform and axis translate, if someone of those is what you used?

prometheus
07-22-2017, 11:52 AM
If your edges are a continuous loop, wouldn't pressing "e" (extend plus), selecting your action center as "Selection", and using Scale ("H") work? They'll scale outward from the center of the selection.

Also, you could turn your edge loop into a polygon, use bevel, with a negative inset, then delete the extra polygon.

There are ways...

That is not move along normals as he asked for, that is pushing/bulge from normals, adding an edgeloop with edit edges and then move it with edit edgesm, that moves it along the normals..I suggested that first, until realizing he uses an open edge and tries to move based on a background object as reference.

Danner
07-22-2017, 12:34 PM
Modify/translate/Point Normal Move Will move the selected vertices along their normals. Opps just read the Original post more carefully, and it said it didn't work. It should.. as long as you are in point mode not edge mode. I just tested it and they don't move in the axis that I was expecting. The way Kryslin suggested is how I'd do it, make a poligon on the edge and use bevel to build new loops.

jeric_synergy
07-22-2017, 12:36 PM
Thanks, seems so there is no direct way to extend the edges outwards. Did it now with extend edge and translate tool and eyeballing. Translate tool is quite nice for this.

Interesting. I don't have enough math for this, BUT! that won't stop me:

I don't think an Edge alone HAS a normal, since a normal is a 3d vector (and an Edge is 2d). However, I think a useful vector could be constructed from the Edge itself, IF it's an "open" edge, and the normal of the polygon it is part of. Combining these two entities would probably give you what you are looking for, with the proviso that you'd probably be most successful with convex shapes. Concave shapes would have course have Edges approaching each other within the concavity.

For your illustration, it looks more like a Patching, Lofting, or Retopo situation, but you may have only included that only as an example.

prometheus
07-22-2017, 12:48 PM
Modify/translate/Point Normal Move Will move the selected vertices along their normals. Opps just read the Original post more carefully, and it said it didn't work. It should.. as long as you are in point mode not edge mode. I just tested it and they don't move in the axis that I was expecting. The way Kryslin suggested is how I'd do it, make a poligon on the edge and use bevel to build new loops.

Edited..forget it.

JoePoe
07-22-2017, 12:54 PM
How about a perpendicular-to-edge-in-question Segment Scale approach instead?

Select edge RING
137440

*IMPORTANT* Switch to points (you will most likely have to reselect the point order of the two points of the original edge you selected ..... :rolleyes: Lightwave)
137441

Use Segment Scale
137442

Kryslin
07-22-2017, 01:16 PM
You can use good ol' bevel to shift along a polygon normal, and to inset on it's tangents. I could probably build that entire shape from a box,, then add the details.

Now, if I only had a way to post screen shots, since PhotoBUCKet shut off the hotlinking (and imgur sure to follow here in a couple of years, tops).

prometheus
07-22-2017, 01:20 PM
You can use good ol' bevel to shift along a polygon normal, and to inset on it's tangents. I could probably build that entire shape from a box,, then add the details.

Now, if I only had a way to post screen shots, since PhotoBUCKet shut off the hotlinking (and imgur sure to follow here in a couple of years, tops).

Whatīs wrong with posting images right here?
Bevel? on an open edge or a loop on open edges? as the example shows.

JoePoe
07-22-2017, 01:34 PM
You can use good ol' bevel to shift along a polygon normal, and to inset on it's tangents. I could probably build that entire shape from a box,, then add the details.

Now, if I only had a way to post screen shots, since PhotoBUCKet shut off the hotlinking (and imgur sure to follow here in a couple of years, tops).

Yeah, I'm not so sure Krys. This is what I get with a bevel on the purposefully kinda crazy shape I was using.
137445

Multi shift, with it's various shift options, didn't cut it either.
Maybe I'm not following the prescribed method.

Kryslin
07-22-2017, 03:01 PM
To answer the question about whether or not an edge (consisting of two points) has a normal... No.

A Normal is defined as a vector perpendicular to a plane. The basic definition of a plane requires 3 points (A,B,C), from which you get 2 vectors (AB, AC) and the normal is defined as the cross product of those two vectors (N = AB x AC). the vector itself is divided by it's magnitude, giving it a magnitude of 1. A Point Normal is the average of all the polygon normals the point is a part of.

Re : Bevel - It works best when the polygon itself is fairly flat. And I had very little trouble duplicating the basic shape shown using bevel, translate and rotate. Since he had it in the background, I could've used 3rdPower Extend Tool, and mirrored the other half of the object when done. For your noodle-y shape, I probably would've extended and dragged the points around.

gerry_g
07-22-2017, 05:14 PM
what is wrong with just hacking the two objects together, if you had retopo tools in LW fine but you don't so stop being a wuss and get on with it, life too short, it ain't rocket science so stop overcomplicating things

gar26lw
07-22-2017, 06:28 PM
Could you do it in blender. Use OD_copy/paste to transfer geo back n forth? Or modo, same way.

OD copy paste is THE best plugin of late for workflow.

https://github.com/heimlich1024/OD_CopyPasteExternal

erikals
07-22-2017, 06:30 PM
not sure, are you looking for Extend Edges ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl5wOREnqYI

oliverhotz
07-22-2017, 11:33 PM
Could you do it in blender. Use OD_copy/paste to transfer geo back n forth? Or modo, same way.

OD copy paste is THE best plugin of late for workflow.

https://github.com/heimlich1024/OD_CopyPasteExternal


Thanks for the plug.. glad you find it useful... I use it every day ;)

gar26lw
07-22-2017, 11:40 PM
Thanks for the plug.. glad you find it useful... I use it every day ;)

It's awesome! Thankyou very much for making it. Has allowed me to tie modo and lightwave together and use them as one app.

MonroePoteet
07-23-2017, 01:37 PM
RE: the original post, Modify=>Transform=>Heat Shrink will shrink the selected edges down (or up) to whatever's in the background layer, so perhaps a sequence of "e" (duplicate the edge), "t" (move it away from the original into the background geometry) and Heat Shrink would extend the edges along the profile of the background layer. Choose the mouse center for dragging the Heat Shrink close to where you want the new edge on the background geometry. Maybe.

mTp

madno
07-24-2017, 12:11 AM
To all,
thanks a lot for the tips. The model is in progess. So I can try out all ideas.