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jperk
06-25-2017, 11:31 AM
What are some of the essential plugins for LW2015, both free and paid? I would like to get a good idea of what is relevant or is getting used frequently around here. Thank you!

THIBAULT
06-25-2017, 11:43 AM
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?145539-What-other-software-will-I-need&highlight=Essential+plugins

Ryan Roye
06-25-2017, 12:46 PM
This depends entirely on what you intend to do. A lot of the things I'd recommend are aimed towards riggers and animators, obviously someone who intends to just render environments/models will not find those plugins nearly as useful.

erikals
06-25-2017, 04:07 PM
too many to mention >
https://www.youtube.com/user/erikalst/search?query=plugin

JetoFillet can't be without it
Polygon Islands is another one
Tube Point Chain is a close friend
PickTrix C Bend makes impossible bends possible
RealTime Smooth is essential
Quad Skin Patcher is cool
RailPoly / WeldStrip is a 'must have'
MG Julienne 3D is nice
CP Janitor cleans up junk
ef Toggle Lines saves the day

....aaand a bunch of others
left out weight/UV related ones, and Layout ones.

> DPont plugins <

Danner
06-25-2017, 04:37 PM
PLG UV tools have been, for me, a life saver. -Make UV Edit- alone makes UVing in lightwave viable, make some time to learn this if you haven't, well worth the effort.

erikals
06-25-2017, 04:56 PM
yup
https://www.youtube.com/user/erikalst/search?query=plg

Marander
06-25-2017, 06:32 PM
From my plugins I can recommend

- IFW2 (Procedural Texturing, must have, tons of great nodes and shaders)
- LWCAD 5.2 (Modeling)
- 3rd Powers LWBrush, Metamesh, Boolean, Heatshrink+ (Modeling)
- 3rd Powers Weight Paint, Cage Deformer (Animation, Weight painting, I don't have these ones)
- ToolChefs VDeformer, LatticeModeler (Modeling, I think free)
- PLG UV Tools (free)
- RHiggit Pro 2.x (Autorigger)
- ShiftKeys+ (Animation, must have)
- RRTools Pro (Animation, must have)
- ODTools (Modeling and Animation tools, must have)
- DPTools (Nodes, shaders, lights etc., must have, free)
- Turbulence FD (fluid simulation for smoke and fire)
- db&w EXR Trader (Composite buffer export, great plugin)
- Advanced Placement (Placement / emitting of objects)
- QuadPanel (Placement of details / nurnies)
- QuickBolt (Screws and bolts modeling)
- Vue XStream (Environments)
- Rope Editor Plus (Cables, ropes, wires)
- smartIBL (old but free)
- Trueart plugins (I don't have any of them)

prometheus
06-26-2017, 06:36 AM
Js_symXmirror
Px_bezier

prometheus
06-26-2017, 11:08 AM
too many to mention >
https://www.youtube.com/user/erikalst/search?query=plugin

JetoFillet can't be without it
Polygon Islands is another one
Tube Point Chain is a close friend
PickTrix C Bend makes impossible bends possible
RealTime Smooth is essential
Quad Skin Patcher is cool
RailPoly / WeldStrip is a 'must have'
MG Julienne 3D is nice
CP Janitor cleans up junk
ef Toggle Lines saves the day

....aaand a bunch of others
left out weight/UV related ones, and Layout ones.

> DPont plugins <


is the rail poly strip available somewhere else? my avast is warnin for that file to be infected.
I may have it downloaded already somewhere..but since my desktop computer went down, I am trying to add as many plugin as possible on my laptop.

Edit..your main site is blocked as virus infection.

Spinland
06-26-2017, 11:21 AM
I'll echo Ryan's observation: depends on what you're working on. Can you be more specific? Then kew. :jam:

bazsa73
06-26-2017, 11:48 AM
Dpont's plugins by now should be part of the system, it's that important. Part move for example is essential when it comes to mograph. My 2 cents.

Spinland
06-26-2017, 11:50 AM
Dpont's plugins by now should be part of the system, it's that important. Part move for example is essential when it comes to mograph. My 2 cents.

I completely agree. I also consider 3D Coat (as a UV mapping "plug in") and everything from 3rd Powers to be utterly essential. Ditto for LWCAD. The list goes on from there but from where I sit (stand, my studio is all standing desks) those are absolute must-haves.

prometheus
06-26-2017, 12:42 PM
Erikals, if you can provide that railpoly plugin somewhere..that would be great, I canīt reach it due to virus warnings, and I was in the middle of something and thought I could use it right now..just hoping you are awake and can manage it :)

erikals
06-26-2017, 02:03 PM
yeah, i'm about to delete that website
for now, temporarily get the plugin here >
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0UZUvzsLZ32Y1lYb2N6cnBEdFE

pinkmouse
06-26-2017, 02:19 PM
What are some of the essential plugins for LW2015?

Houdini. :)

prometheus
06-26-2017, 04:38 PM
yeah, i'm about to delete that website
for now, temporarily get the plugin here >
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0UZUvzsLZ32Y1lYb2N6cnBEdFE

Thanks a lot erikals.

jperk
06-26-2017, 05:43 PM
the plugins are kind of pricey. $200-300 tops. However, MetaMesh Smack looks VERY useful!

erikals
06-26-2017, 08:56 PM
Thanks a lot erikals.
u Welcome. :)


However, MetaMesh Smack looks VERY useful!
personally, i think that's the coolest one from 3rd'

except for Layout though, where Cage Deformer is a must have if doing CA.

Spinland
06-27-2017, 05:27 AM
the plugins are kind of pricey. $200-300 tops. However, MetaMesh Smack looks VERY useful!

It does rock, and their entire suite pays for itself with your first gig, with interest. :jam:

prometheus
06-27-2017, 11:40 AM
u Welcome. :)


personally, i think that's the coolest one from 3rd'

except for Layout though, where Cage Deformer is a must have if doing CA.

I thought the sculpt brush was ...at least one of the most valuable? consider reforming the shape of a character, and metamesh may not get clean geometry when fused and need a lot of attention?

Spinland
06-27-2017, 02:06 PM
I thought the sculpt brush was ...at least one of the most valuable? consider reforming the shape of a character, and metamesh may not get clean geometry when fused and need a lot of attention?

It's all personal druthers but I place the sculpt plugin at the top of my favorites from them, with cage deformer as second (that plus Syflex is a true powerhouse for soft body stuff).

erikals
06-27-2017, 02:14 PM
sculpt brush comes 2'nd here, but a very good 2'nd place. :)

metamesh is quite fabulous, no holes, so far. :)

cagedeformer and weightpainting can't be left out. but as far as weightpaint, it's rather strange that this is still not part of LW by default.

my only explanation for that extreme delay is that LW Layout was in a way too bad state until 2-3 years ago for anyone at NT to do anything about it.

prometheus
06-27-2017, 02:55 PM
sculpt brush comes 2'nd here, but a very good 2'nd place. :)

metamesh is quite fabulous, no holes, so far. :)

cagedeformer and weightpainting can't be left out. but as far as weightpaint, it's rather strange that this is still not part of LW by default.

my only explanation for that extreme delay is that LW Layout was in a way too bad state until 2-3 years ago for anyone at NT to do anything about it.

Great info, I suppose I will soon take a look at metamesh and the sculpt brush, though I rather see what happens with lightwave first, unfortunately the delay of the Lightwave release also affects any potential purchase from
third party developers, so that I hope the lw team is aware of.

erikals
06-27-2017, 03:36 PM
yeah, while we have the LightWave delay, there are other things to consider purchasing,
currently went for / bought >

- Audio Recorder
- ShotGun Mic
- CNC Machine
- 3D Printer
- GreenScreen

so there's enough to explore meanwhile waiting for LightWave Next.

sure is a long wait though... oh well.

prometheus
06-27-2017, 05:27 PM
yeah, while we have the LightWave delay, there are other things to consider purchasing,
currently went for / bought >

- Audio Recorder
- ShotGun Mic
- CNC Machine
- 3D Printer
- GreenScreen

so there's enough to explore meanwhile waiting for LightWave Next.

sure is a long wait though... oh well.

Oh my, that was a lot, both cnc and 3d printer ...and then greenscreen, what are you up to, starting your own studio to compete with warner brothers etc, cnc and printers for the light saber and helmets, then green screens to place things all over the place.
Good luck.

Greenlaw
06-27-2017, 08:38 PM
Yeah, 'essential' depends on what you need. My needs are fairly broad so here are some my favorites.

For general, everyday usefulness, my votes go to the DP's plugins and all of the 3rd Powers tools.

Also very useful are the OD Tools and the TrueArt plugins--I don't use these every day but I'm so glad to have them when I need them.

For fluid and phyical-type effects, Turbulence FD, Deep Rising and UP are way up there. Oh, may as well throw in Syflex too.

For Modeling, LW CAD. My favorite third party standalone programs that work well with LightWave are 3D Coat and ZBrush. I probably use 3D Coat more frequently but sometimes use ZB for unique capabilities like FiberMesh. For UV mapping and retopology, I like 3D Coat. For reducing meshes I don't intend to deform, I use Atangeo Balancer Pro.

The best UV mapping program I've ever used was UV Layout. I used to swear by that program, but nowadays I mostly use 3D Coat because it's quick and with pretty good results. But for precision and the most optimal UV mapping possible, I don't think you can't beat UV Layout.

Since I render everything out of LW for compositing, my favorite output plugin is exrTrader.

To composite and sweenten my LW Renders, I like Fusion and After Effects. And if you use AE, I think Trapcode Particular is absolutely essential. If you really want to speed up your renders, use LighthWave's vector buffer to do your motion blur in Fusion (exrTrader makes this very easy.) You can do use motion vector data in AE too but you'll also need to get the RealSmart Motion Blur Pro plugin.

I do all of my camera tracking for LightWave using SynthEyes or After Effects.

I like to record my own mocap data for LightWave using iPi Mocap Studio. I use Motion Builder to prep and edit the data for LightWave but I want to move away from MB so looking into using the standalone Webanimate and iClone 7 with 3DXchange Pipeline.

Back when I was with Rhythm & Hues, I used Vue to create 3D environments and elements for matte paintings. I still maintain my personal license for Vue Infinite but ever since LightWave got instancing, I really don't rely on Vue so much anymore. It's still a pretty awesome program though, and I'm planning to use it for another short film in the future.

Oh, and speaking of instancing, Hurley's Advanced Placement is another essential plugin.

erikals
06-28-2017, 02:58 AM
Oh my, that was a lot, both cnc and 3d printer ...and then greenscreen, what are you up to, starting your own studio to compete with warner brothers etc, cnc and printers for the light saber and helmets, then green screens to place things all over the place.
Good luck.

created a complete studio, yes.   :)
will see where it goes from there.
spent quite a lot of time searching for cheap, but good, equipment.

- Audio Recorder (Zoom H5)
- ShotGun Mic (Røde NTG4)
- CNC Machine (CNC 3018)
- 3D Printer (Anet A6)
- GreenScreen (from China)
- CFL Lights / LED Lights (from China)
- DSLR (Panasonic G7)
- MoCap (Perception Neuron) (got it for an alright price)

needed > Airbrush, Dremel, Paint, Foam, Generator ++

tons of stuff to do while waiting for LightWave :)


cnc and printers for the light saber and helmets
cnc and 3dprinter to create props, yes. :)

Norka
06-28-2017, 06:07 AM
Octane!.. actually, it's more like LW is plug for it than the other way around.

Also I concur with others on 3RDPwrs (especially LWBRush and MetaMesh), DP, PLG, Hurley's UP and AP.

prometheus
06-28-2017, 03:21 PM
created a complete studio, yes.   :)
will see where it goes from there.
spent quite a lot of time searching for cheap, but good, equipment.

- Audio Recorder (Zoom H5)
- ShotGun Mic (Røde NTG4)
- CNC Machine (CNC 3018)
- 3D Printer (Anet A6)
- GreenScreen (from China)
- CFL Lights / LED Lights (from China)
- DSLR (Panasonic G7)
- MoCap (Perception Neuron) (got it for an alright price)

needed > Airbrush, Dremel, Paint, Foam, Generator ++

tons of stuff to do while waiting for LightWave :)


cnc and 3dprinter to create props, yes. :)

airbrush and dremel...and you got time for this, huh :)
I got me some airbrush techniques books many many years ago, and was thinking of getting an airbrush, but then came the computers and I really didnīt wanīt to start working with airbrush, then again that may be a different
appliance when it comes to paint printed parts etc and not for standard airbrush art.
I got me a dremel as well..but it only lies in storage here, I may get to use it If I get me a 3d printer though.

erikals
06-28-2017, 04:44 PM
yeah. already got a Dremel, but need a Flex Shaft (ordered from AliExpress)
like you, i gave up the airbrush years ago, but with Youtube video tutorials i'm giving it a second go.
won't be for art this time, only for simpler stuff >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrAyrV7M_ZA

jperk
07-02-2017, 12:25 PM
137268

I'm following a tutorial and it seems the instructor is encouraging the use of triangles. I'd like to keep polys all quads. How do I convert triangles to quads? I installed MergeTrigonsX plugin, but when I click on the MergeTrigonsX tab I've added nothing happens. Is it not compatible w/ LW version 2015?

When I subdivide the model, I am getting the "Only faces with three or four vertices can be converted to SubPatches." However, after clicking OK, the model still subdivides fine. The only way to rid this error message is for me to select all polys and hit Shift-T to triple the polygons. This seems to turn all the polys into triangles, which I don't want! I want to keep a typology flow of quads.

I'm using the Joan of Arc tutorial and it seems the artist uses a couple triangles here and there. Is that okay?
https://www.3dtotal.com/tutorial/ebook_tutorials/joan_of_arc/joan_of_arc_lightwave/part_01/joa_lightwave_part_01_01.php

RebelHill
07-02-2017, 12:47 PM
you cant just turn tris into quads by magic, there has to be somehwere for the additional point/line to go. Merge trigons only merges adjacent triangles.

jperk
07-02-2017, 12:55 PM
I wonder why the artist in tutorial I'm following is suggesting triangles. His model has triangles in same areas.

prometheus
07-02-2017, 02:35 PM
137268

I'm following a tutorial and it seems the instructor is encouraging the use of triangles. I'd like to keep polys all quads. How do I convert triangles to quads? I installed MergeTrigonsX plugin, but when I click on the MergeTrigonsX tab I've added nothing happens. Is it not compatible w/ LW version 2015?

When I subdivide the model, I am getting the "Only faces with three or four vertices can be converted to SubPatches." However, after clicking OK, the model still subdivides fine. The only way to rid this error message is for me to select all polys and hit Shift-T to triple the polygons. This seems to turn all the polys into triangles, which I don't want! I want to keep a typology flow of quads.

I'm using the Joan of Arc tutorial and it seems the artist uses a couple triangles here and there. Is that okay?
https://www.3dtotal.com/tutorial/ebook_tutorials/joan_of_arc/joan_of_arc_lightwave/part_01/joa_lightwave_part_01_01.php

"Only faces with three or four vertices can be converted to SubPatches." However, after clicking OK, the model still subdivides fine"
that is suspicious, to note...even though you get that error message..lightwave will force subpatch what it can, and what it canīt subpatch will be just that..un subpatched, so even if you think it looks ok..there is probably an issue somewhere..maybe inside the model.
So I would recommend use the statistics panel..hit "w" to open it..and preferably align that panel to the side and close lightwave when that is done, when you reboot lightwave you will have that panel always open...then you go in poly mode and check for vertices more than 4..that is indicated with an right arrow in the statisics panel, when yo click on that, it will highlight those ngon polygons, or two point polygons...so you can go in there and fix it manually, could help to delete them and see where you got holes in your patch and heal it.

prometheus
07-02-2017, 02:37 PM
I wonder why the artist in tutorial I'm following is suggesting triangles. His model has triangles in same areas.

Guessing itīs about good deformation and avoiding pinching sort of..without the need to use quads, quads however in turn requires a proper polyflow, I reckon it may be in verys small areas where you need to connect quads and for that it may be the best way.

jperk
07-02-2017, 03:19 PM
Thanks prometheus . The statistics panel helped me rid of the error message when subdividing. I had an extra vertex somewhere and extra edgeloops that were not needed.

I got rid of the triangles in pelvis area, but the others remain. However, they subpatch fine. It's just the person I am modeling for required I only use quads.

I am wondering how I can get rid of the triangles on the back and back thighs of the model (as seen in previous posted pic). EDIT* I'm not too concerned given that this official model of Lara Croft by Crystal Dynamics is using triangles in some areas as well:

http://nd04.jxs.cz/623/039/276aa4f68e_69179455_o2.jpg

However, I've noticed some polygons on my model are not mirroring on the opposite when selected. Before they were, so I'm not sure what edits I did caused them to do this. Here is an example: I click on polygons on left side of image (circled in red), but only some mirror on the right. I have Symmetry mode on, yet this still persists.

137269

prometheus
07-02-2017, 06:08 PM
Thanks prometheus . The statistics panel helped me rid of the error message when subdividing. I had an extra vertex somewhere and extra edgeloops that were not needed.

I got rid of the triangles in pelvis area, but the others remain. However, they subpatch fine. It's just the person I am modeling for required I only use quads.

I am wondering how I can get rid of the triangles on the back and back thighs of the model (as seen in previous posted pic). EDIT* I'm not too concerned given that this official model of Lara Croft by Crystal Dynamics is using triangles in some areas as well:

http://nd04.jxs.cz/623/039/276aa4f68e_69179455_o2.jpg

However, I've noticed some polygons on my model are not mirroring on the opposite when selected. Before they were, so I'm not sure what edits I did caused them to do this. Here is an example: I click on polygons on left side of image (circled in red), but only some mirror on the right. I have Symmetry mode on, yet this still persists.

137269

This may be of value, regarding why quads...and avoiding ngons and triangles, though I would say that when it comes to certain nature object that doesnīt have to deform, you may get away with tripled geometry anyway, like for rocks.
https://www.pluralsight.com/blog/film-games/ngons-triangles-bad

as for making quads, it takes a bit of practice, you have several methods, as for the leg and knee part, I see some triangles, you can for instance take one of that triangle and one quad next to it and merge them, and do the same for following triangles, that will give you ngons, but you can delete proper points to make them quads...the problem may be that the polys and edge flow may not be desired anyway since you thereby may have destroyed that edge flow, so you may have to spin quad or split them in a completly new way.

I would also suggest getting daz studio ..which has a new version out, and export out some of those characters and study polywireframe, many of those original models in daz were in fact created in lightwave from scratch as I recall.


some wire topo flow to study..
https://santanapanero.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/april_wire_001.jpg


Also...William Vaughan, was very active some time ago for the lightwave community regarding correcting polyflow, still is jumping in here and there to show tips and tricks, he has a lot of free tutorials both on youtube and within the 24 hours of free video training, covering not only modeling but a lot else in Lightwave..nowadays he seem to be more focused on working with modo, and he has his own site...


http://pushingpoints.com/v2/got-wires/

http://pushingpoints.com/v2/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/wires_007.jpg
http://pushingpoints.com/v2/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/wires_006.jpg
http://pushingpoints.com/v2/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/wires_008.jpg
http://pushingpoints.com/v2/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/wires_009.jpg

jperk
07-02-2017, 06:25 PM
Thank you prometheus I will take a look at this. Also, I fixed the triangles by selecting edge and using split edge. I was able to turn em into kite shaped trapezoids. Good enough I suppose...4 points is better than 3!

And I own that Digital Modeling book by William Vaughan. I keep it on my desk!

prometheus
07-02-2017, 06:27 PM
ah..just looked at the previous image of the back of the thighs, you already got almost a straight line where it breaks of to form a triangle, I would probably use the slice tool and click on that first vertice where the straight line breaks, and slice the polygons all the way down, then merge that triangle with nearby polys since that would yield quads instead, but itīs a bit hard to tell how well that edge loop goes all the way around the leg. (see red line, the slice tool can do that, you can also use the connect tool to split edges then use it again if you select points to connect them, but thatīs another lesson :) )

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137270&d=1499041535

137270

jeric_synergy
07-02-2017, 07:24 PM
you cant just turn tris into quads by magic, there has to be somehwere for the additional point/line to go. Merge trigons only merges adjacent triangles.
FWIW:
If I make a standard BALL, TRIPLE everything, CC subdivide, and FREEZE, I do get an exclusively Quad mesh at the end. I don't know how that's possible, but that's what happened. And of course it's a much denser (3x) mesh.
(Default ball>>1584 polys)

Actually, I don't even need to Triple anything, even w/the standard Ball mix of tris and quads, after CC patching and freezing, it's all quads, and a bit lighter.
(Default ball>> 1104 polys)

To the OP: note that it must be CC (Catmull-Clark) patches, not (regular) Subd patches. If you don't mind the added density, it'll get you there. Possibly with heinous poly-flow.

prometheus
07-02-2017, 08:18 PM
FWIW:
If I make a standard BALL, TRIPLE everything, CC subdivide, and FREEZE, I do get an exclusively Quad mesh at the end. I don't know how that's possible, but that's what happened. And of course it's a much denser (3x) mesh.
(Default ball>>1584 polys)

Actually, I don't even need to Triple anything, even w/the standard Ball mix of tris and quads, after CC patching and freezing, it's all quads, and a bit lighter.
(Default ball>> 1104 polys)

To the OP: note that it must be CC (Catmull-Clark) patches, not (regular) Subd patches. If you don't mind the added density, it'll get you there. Possibly with heinous poly-flow.

Itīs faster to simply run the metaform plus (legacy folder plugin) rather than setting correct lowest 1 level subd for catmull clark, then tabbing the ctrl-d to freeze, itīs a one step button with metaform.

same results in vertices faces and structure..almost, there are more non planar surfaces in the metaform than in a catmull clark freezed sphere, if you spherise it ..it will have even more surfaces going non planer, the question is which method actually makes the sphere..almost perfectly a sphere?

Ernest
07-02-2017, 10:01 PM
I am wondering how I can get rid of the triangles on the back of the model (as seen in previous posted pic).
I don't think you want to. The reason why those tris are there is because the torso and the legs did not have enough geometry to make the buttocks look rounded. So there are only two ways to remove those tris. Either you remove one row of quads in the buttocks so that they have the same density as the back and legs (losing a lot of control over the shape of that area) or you add an extra row of quads all the way up the back and all the way down the leg. That means adding a lot of geometry that was not needed in those areas. If this is a low-poly game model, and every single poly counts towards the game's performance, you need a good justification for adding all those extra polys other than just liking the feeling of having all quads. Creating triangles is the only way to go from higher to lower poly density in different areas of the mesh while still keeping it all one mesh. (Well, if you're not going to subdivide you have other options but they all tend to create worse problems than tris when subdividing.)

Now, the Lara Croft model is not a good example to follow in general. True, it's a professional game asset from a major company but it was designed to be displayed exactly as you see it in the picture you attached. That is, it never got subd'ed. If you are planning on using subdivs on your model, a lot of tricks that look fine on faceted models will cause creases in a subdivided mesh.

So if we decided (and that's up to you) that you still want to kill the quads you can either select the points shown in the red suggestion below and weld them, or bandsaw an edge up and down as in the green suggestion.
137272

If we decided that the geometry that we would have to add or remove in order to kill the tris is not worth it, then the question is, "are the tris in the right place?" In my opinion they are. The lower back is flat and rigid. There are almost no deformations to worry about there. That's a great place for a tri. And the leg tri's are almost hidden on the inside of the leg and the single-point side of the triangleis on the far side of the deforming area, which also has a thin strip of quads right above the triangle. I don't foresee any deformation problems there.

If it was up to me, I'd leave the lower-back tris and I'd add the poly strip to the back of the legs, not because I'd want to kill those tris, but because I think the leg could use a bit more detail.

The automatic tri->quad plugins can work nicely for things like imported scans and photogrametry models where everything is triangles, but they tend not to know what to do for strategically placed tris like in your example..


However, I've noticed some polygons on my model are not mirroring on the opposite when selected. Before they were, so I'm not sure what edits I did caused them to do this. Here is an example: I click on polygons on left side of image (circled in red), but only some mirror on the right. I have Symmetry mode on, yet this still persists.

That's super common. We all make changes that we forget to do on both sides, at one time or another. There are plugins to symmetrize, but it's so easy to just delete half the model using Volume Select and mirror it, that I usually do that constantly, just to be sure.

prometheus
07-02-2017, 11:38 PM
Regarding symmetry, some tools like smooth shifting or other tools may screw up symmetry, I would go and get me symmx mirror, by johan steen (JS_SymmXMirror.ls)

http://artstorm.net/plugins/symmxmirror/
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/symmxmirror/

it will automaticly delete the left side of your object, based on a proper middle section, and paste back an exakt copy of your right side, so just make sure all your objects got a middle section that has all itīs points/edges aligned in the 0 value of the x axis, if not select such line in the middle and hit "v" for value and set 0 value.

I use that all the time now while modeling a face for example, you needto switch off symmetry though when running it.
I also have set my symmetry shortcut to x, which makes more sense to me since you work on the right side of the model and symmetry propagates through the x axis, itīs also easier than a two button shortcut which is default.
so before I run symxMirror, I turn the symmetry mode off, the plugin has been very reliable without crashing and always giving correct results.

Sensei/true art I think also has a virtual mirror plugin..
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/virtualmirror/

So Js_symmx is one of my recommended must have plugins.

jperk
07-02-2017, 11:55 PM
prometheus yes I had used split edge and turned trapezoids. Is this okay?

137273

sub divided:

137274

Ernest
07-03-2017, 06:02 AM
prometheus yes I had used split edge and turned trapezoids. Is this okay?

You've created four three-edge points. Test the deformation of the lower two without wireframe and compare before you commit to that because they tend to pinch much more than tris from what I've seen. I tend to avoid points with more or less than 4 edges that close to a joint.

jperk
07-03-2017, 07:11 AM
You've created four three-edge points. Test the deformation of the lower two without wireframe and compare before you commit to that because they tend to pinch much more than tris from what I've seen. I tend to avoid points with more or less than 4 edges that close to a joint.

No they are "kite" shaped. 4 sided. Sorry not trapezoid, I meant to say quadrilateral.

gerry_g
07-03-2017, 08:36 AM
Airbrushes – they're sow they clog the paint is always too thick or too thin never right it takes forever to dry the compressor is as noisy as hell you get paint every where up you nose in your mouth on your teeth in your hair all over the room all over everything the masks don't stick right the paint leaks underneath them or pulls of the previous layer of paint when you remove it – yeah it's great fun, enjoy

jwiede
07-06-2017, 02:05 AM
No they are "kite" shaped. 4 sided. Sorry not trapezoid, I meant to say quadrilateral.

Those two bottom kite-shaped ones still seem quite likely to go non-planar during animation (and produce odd pinching/artifacts) in that arrangement.

jperk
07-06-2017, 03:48 PM
Those two bottom kite-shaped ones still seem quite likely to go non-planar during animation (and produce odd pinching/artifacts) in that arrangement.

What do I do? Should I move the middle vertex down a bit more so it is less triangle shaped?

Ernest
07-06-2017, 10:25 PM
What do I do? Should I move the middle vertex down a bit more so it is less triangle shaped?

It's not about the triangle shape. It's about the tension on the point. The high tension point needs to move away from the joint or be eliminated. When you create a high-tension point, it needs to be on a flat, non-deforming (or hidden) surface.

What we care about in an organic mesh is the edge flow. The edges have to be animatable. They have to follow the shape in which the skin will deform. When you subdivide the mesh you can see how the edges that cross a high tension point pinch. You can sometimes see it even when the subdivided mesh is static, if it's curved. When you add bones and deform it, however, it will be much more visible because the skin will deform along the pinch. So you want the edges of the mesh to flow like the deformation will. We say that a point with three or five (or more) edges has high tension because you can see an edge that crosses that point will stop going straight and will jump up towards the high tension point.

I'm not good at explaining so I'd better show it. I've made a guy with the same edgeflow as yours to illustrate, maybe not exact but it should be close enough to show the point. I've subdivided the mesh next to it so you can see the edge flow of the subdivided mesh.

The image on the left shows the original model with the triangle. You can see that the edge lines under the buttocks are mostly straight. When you add bones, the area should deform OK because it will deform along straight edges. The triangle causes pinching on the lower vertex and you can see the edge jumping up there, but that area doesn't deform because it's on the middle of the femur, so it's not too bad. In the middle, I put your fixed mesh with the two kite quads. You can see that the original two high tension points still have high tension, even though they are now quads. That is because the tension there is not caused by the presence of a triangle per se, it's caused by points with 5 edges and those are still there. All we've done here is to add two extra high tension points with 3 edges and you can easily see how the edges pinch to a peak when they are subdivided. Now, as stated before, the only way to eliminate the triangles without adding more high-tension points is to add or remove entire rows of additional geometry until you have areas of matching density. In the mesh on the right, I added a whole polygon strip going down the leg and as seen on the subdivided mesh, the pinching is gone from that area.

137312

jperk
07-06-2017, 10:53 PM
I'm confused though because the kite shapes polys on my model still have 4 vertices the same amount a planer quad would have. So technically I thought what I have still counts as a quad.

Ernest
07-06-2017, 11:19 PM
You're absolutely right. They are absolutely 100% quads.

That doesn't mean that if one of their points has 3, 5, or more edges, it won't cause problems with the edge flow. Just like a triangle might not cause problems if it's facing the right way.

Triangles are your friends. They are just nasty friends who will kick you in the face if you put them in the wrong place or in the wrong orientation.

Actually, you can have bad poly flow even 4-edge-per-vertex quads only. Having quads does not guarantee good poly flow. For organics, you plan your edge loops according to how the mesh will be animated.

prometheus
07-07-2017, 10:45 AM
you could try spin quads, it may take care of it within two cycles (spin quad repeat) before returning back to the same edge flow, but hard to tell until you test it, otherwise manually move the points a bit maybe.