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erikals
06-07-2017, 08:16 AM
might be a nice test for LightWave Next Render Engine >

files can be downloaded here >
http://gl.ict.usc.edu/Research/DigitalEmily2

http://gl.ict.usc.edu/Research/DigitalEmily2/images/Cam1_FlashReference_Eyes_v06.jpg

prometheus
06-08-2017, 10:18 AM
tried it in blender and in lightwave, obj format...the eyes textures doesnīt look right when mapped according the the uv, very large iris that doesnīt resemble the image posted here.
The textures lack any bump mapping for the skin it seems, (one can use the diffuse and crank the values up)

My laptop is almost dying though, so I donīt send any images now, so I canīt stand working with tweaking the images because of that, so not much of value to post.

RebelHill
06-08-2017, 11:42 AM
Yeah... the eyeball textures/UVs seem kinda screwed, but the skin is good. Can always drop in replacement eyes.

MichaelT
06-08-2017, 12:06 PM
@erikals: Nice find.. thanks :)

The maya file may open as text in your browser though. That was kind of stupid of them... they should have zipped the file.

rustythe1
06-08-2017, 01:20 PM
tried it in blender and in lightwave, obj format...the eyes textures doesnīt look right when mapped according the the uv, very large iris that doesnīt resemble the image posted here.
The textures lack any bump mapping for the skin it seems, (one can use the diffuse and crank the values up)

My laptop is almost dying though, so I donīt send any images now, so I canīt stand working with tweaking the images because of that, so not much of value to post.

there were two displacement maps (one was a micro displacement) in the image folder

prometheus
06-08-2017, 02:02 PM
Yeah... the eyeball textures/UVs seem kinda screwed, but the skin is good. Can always drop in replacement eyes.

Agreed..skin is good.
It looked pretty decent just fiddling with standard layers..without nodes...though one should really set it up there....no big fan of the node system though...I hope to see improvements on that.
Good things are coming though with vpr and renderer rendering the same
..so I t should secure no surprises when tweaking nodes in vpr and then final rendering it all.

Matt
06-08-2017, 02:07 PM
I need to reduce the image maps, my machine died trying to load them all.

prometheus
06-08-2017, 02:09 PM
there were two displacement maps (one was a micro displacement) in the image folder

Dont think micro displace is that effective in light wave of today...dpon't nodes for instance..slow and in stable. .
The standard displacement Is only good for med level I guess. .not for pores and fie wrinkles.
Unless one can map those displacement to a convert to bump...or normal map.
The diffuse map at high strength and inverted looked ok though.
I used the spec map both in glossy and spec channels...but inverted in the glossiness channel.

Sorry for broken words..The cellular phone correction errors

prometheus
06-10-2017, 06:58 AM
If any of you guys had the time to test render some images with lightwave or even blender?, please post some images.
Personally I have a screwed up computer nowadays so I do not think I can handle it with patience though since it is so darn slow.
I expect to invest in a new compuer soon.

prometheus
06-10-2017, 07:01 AM
I need to reduce the image maps, my machine died trying to load them all.

Oh..and my laptop with 8 gig which is also giving up on me..actually manage to load maps, at least some of them..but granted, they are a bottleneck, did you try to load it all, inclulding displacements?
maybe skip that and work only with the other maps...guess itīs the exr textures, the unpainted is a bit lower in size though.

rustythe1
06-10-2017, 08:13 AM
I added the micro displacement to the bump channel and it actually worked quite well to affect the spec, the main displacement can be added to a subdivision mesh, ive figured out in my head what happens to the eyes but cant figure it out in lightwave, some how they are blending the individual meshes so the iris is a combination of the eye layers so you have to have the transparency set up correctly so that the colours blend in the correct place (she has brown eyes and one map is blueish and the other is red so getting the correct mix of transparency, red and blue mix should give you the brown at some point but cant quite get it there)

erikals
06-10-2017, 09:51 AM
um, where can i upload large files, seem to remember Steven Scott had a new site...

prometheus
06-10-2017, 10:37 AM
um, where can i upload large files, seem to remember Steven Scott had a new site...

how large?

- - - Updated - - -


I added the micro displacement to the bump channel and it actually worked quite well to affect the spec, the main displacement can be added to a subdivision mesh, ive figured out in my head what happens to the eyes but cant figure it out in lightwave, some how they are blending the individual meshes so the iris is a combination of the eye layers so you have to have the transparency set up correctly so that the colours blend in the correct place (she has brown eyes and one map is blueish and the other is red so getting the correct mix of transparency, red and blue mix should give you the brown at some point but cant quite get it there)

post images..please..please :)

erikals
06-10-2017, 10:38 AM
approximately 100MB

compressed files, loads fine, renders fine


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zlwryrVUlA

prometheus
06-10-2017, 11:00 AM
I think onedrive can have quite large file size, long over 100mb, so maybe try that, it assumes you have or create an hotmail/outlook account, you can create a link and choose to share it with anyone that has acess o the link with or without password.
if you do not know where to find one drive, itīs those small boxes in the upper left corner in your hotmail or outlook mail account..if you have it.
will take a look at the vid later.

erikals
06-10-2017, 12:24 PM
looks like Google disk is a fix... :)

[Digital Emily Scene]
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0UZUvzsLZ32LVVpM28tVVdsRW8/view?usp=sharing

erikals
06-11-2017, 02:58 AM
hi, did anyone test the download ?

prometheus
06-11-2017, 03:40 AM
hi, did anyone test the download ?

I just downloaded it, so yes..the link works, the download is decent in speed also, and the files were all there, havenīt set anything up though...busy with so much else, partly testing the openstreetmap right now.
Thanks for the reduction and the files, it will make it easier for us to test.

erikals
06-11-2017, 05:27 AM
thanks, happy it works, busy? yes me too, running, literally. :)

prometheus
06-11-2017, 05:44 AM
thanks, happy it works, busy? yes me too, running, literally. :)

Yep...
off topic for emily render and textures, but on topic for lightwave next, just came across a situation using open streetmaps imported from blender..and where I could use the new modeler layout cam perspective, basicly if you orbiting around in layout and find a nice view, then you would like to bevel some height differences in some buildings, for that it would be good to have a camera match so you can model from the same view you have in layout.

as for textures and Emily..havenīt tested your textures, might not do that until I get me a new computer..hopefully within a week or two...or if I get some extra time, one week to go..then vacation four weeks.

rustythe1
06-11-2017, 07:13 AM
it seems clear that the renders they are showing (the first image erikals posted) are using a different mesh and textures to the download, it renders ok but the hairline and nose seem to be completely different, you can also see some blue veins under the skin, but none of that seems present in the downloads, just a quick render, using only the supplied textures
137042

prometheus
06-11-2017, 11:15 AM
it seems clear that the renders they are showing (the first image erikals posted) are using a different mesh and textures to the download, it renders ok but the hairline and nose seem to be completely different, you can also see some blue veins under the skin, but none of that seems present in the downloads, just a quick render, using only the supplied textures
137042

Looks very good.

though..are you using srgb color space settings active? I mostly think those out of th box look way of and not natural in lighting, the original renders seem to be dark where it should be dark, and where there is uplit parts, those seem to be of radiosity...like insdide of the nose, and the left cheek needs to be dark, not lit up like in your image, it would also need a boost in specularity .
But I get it...it was just a quick render, so what I said is probably something you would need to tweak and that takes a bit of time.

but as I understand it..no radiosity here? and srgb color space..or am I wrong?

MichaelT
06-11-2017, 02:50 PM
@erikals: "hi, did anyone test the download ?"

I downloaded everything.. haven't gotten around to test it yet but I will. Been busy with some new workplace, so priorities :) It will probably work on my machine, since I have quite a lot of memory. But I think it may be a challenge for normal computers though. It is a bit on the massive side.

EBD3D
06-12-2017, 04:49 PM
Hello,

Here is my test on Octane with the same scene.

http://www.3dvf.com/forum/static/mesimages/38298/DigitalEmilyOctaneTest01720p.jpg

erikals
06-13-2017, 12:48 AM
 
Looks Nice.  :)
any chance you could share a node screengrab ?

----------------

rustythe1, try a different camera lens, should make render look more like the original.
i believe tweaking color channels also is necesarry depending on the render engine.

EBD3D
06-13-2017, 09:32 AM
Merci erikals
137070

RebelHill
06-13-2017, 09:51 AM
This was my go at it from quite a while back now.

lertola2
06-13-2017, 11:46 AM
This was my go at it from quite a while back now.

That looks great.

prometheus
06-13-2017, 12:51 PM
This was my go at it from quite a while back now.

Yep..the best so far, subsurface scattering( I suspect) and depth of field between face and neck, good use of specularity on the lips and around the eyes and some pores, it is also delicately lit, with good rim light etc.
Did you use any radiosity?
Great render...and you made "her" look at the cam as well, to further enhance the appearance of some person being aware.

EBD3D
06-13-2017, 03:08 PM
137073


Update of the shader skin, for me it is just an exercise since it is the first time I make a face rendering. After I attack my eyes ...

^^

erikals
06-13-2017, 04:18 PM
thank you EBD3D, i'll give the node setup a study.  :)

-----------------------------------------------------------

...and Very nice RebelHill  :)

lertola2
06-13-2017, 08:43 PM
137073


Update of the shader skin, for me it is just an exercise since it is the first time I make a face rendering. After I attack my eyes ...

^^

That looks really good.

Mastoy
06-14-2017, 02:52 AM
Merci erikals
137070

The displacement node is plugged in the wrong place :D

erikals
06-14-2017, 10:15 AM
Blender Reference >
https://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?379147-Skin-in-Cycles-Emily-2-1

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137082&d=1497456866
137082

prometheus
06-14-2017, 11:26 AM
Blender Reference >
https://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?379147-Skin-in-Cycles-Emily-2-1

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137082&d=1497456866
137082


That looks even better than Rebelhills render, though there are artifacts, it may be the eyes that looks so much more realistic and the lighting conditions, and added hair, the actual skin i am not so sure about.

erikals
06-14-2017, 12:56 PM
the Blender skin does have a Chris Jones Sigma 2 style to it.
think i'll wait testing that until LightWave Next is out... maybe LWG can give it a testrun.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137087&d=1497466564
137087

EBD3D
06-14-2017, 04:08 PM
Update of the shader skin and start of eye work.

thank you Mastoy I corrected it on the rendering of before ;)
137094

prometheus
06-17-2017, 07:31 AM
when comparing renders of chris jones renders and the blender render, I find that creases are better rendered in the blender render, a typical noticeable attribute that often shows in 3d renders, it is the mouth and eye areas where the dark crease rim is perticular noticeable, where in real photos we do not see that rendered.
So check the eyes where the eylid meets the eyeball, and check the mouth where the upper lip and lower lip meets on both renders.

I also happen to think the chris jones render has too much red subsurface scattering showing, noticeable on the ears too much and bleeding over on the right side of the nose a bit too much..
That said, itīs an awesome.. great render, I donīt think I would even come close to that for a long long time.

erikals
06-17-2017, 09:16 AM
when comparing renders of Chris Jones renders and the blender render, I find that creases are better rendered in the blender render, a typical noticeable attribute that often shows in 3d renders, it is the mouth and eye areas where the dark crease rim is particular noticeable, where in real photos we do not see that rendered.
So check the eyes where the eyelid meets the eyeball, and check the mouth where the upper lip and lower lip meets on both renders.
yep, agree, i talked to him about the eye area, but at one point he basically had to say "good enough".

but of course a LightWave render can't really compete with the unbiased Blender Cycles render.
still, a great render as you say. Chris' render would have better with Bruteforce MonteCarlo, but that would take 4ever to render...

additional note, notice however, that the Cycles render isn't perfect either when you look at 'her' right eye corner +nostrils.

prometheus
06-17-2017, 10:27 AM
yep, agree, i talked to him about the eye area, but at one point he basically had to say "good enough".

but of course a LightWave render can't really compete with the unbiased Blender Cycles render.
still, a great render as you say. Chris' render would have better with Bruteforce MonteCarlo, but that would take 4ever to render...

additional note, notice however, that the Cycles render isn't perfect either when you look at 'her' right eye corner +nostrils.

you mean her right eye corner? which is the opposite to the right eye from our point of view in the image :)
I prefer to reference any area as they are in the image, not from the objects standpoint of view, so in this case I suspect you actually ment the left eye in the image and not side where she got piercings?

As for the nostrils I do not notice anything directly wrong really..so what is that?

erikals
06-17-2017, 10:47 AM
no, i was thought it was professional/polite to reference to the person's navigation, so sticking to that i think.
her left nostril has a hard edge, softened here.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137122&d=1497718017

being Xtremely picky though

prometheus
06-17-2017, 11:21 AM
no, i was thought it was professional/polite to reference to the person's navigation, so sticking to that i think.
her left nostril has a hard edge, softened here.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137122&d=1497718017

being Xtremely picky though

yep I know..but I am not sure, you could be right.

MichaelT
06-17-2017, 11:39 AM
Speaking of Chris animation, if there ever deserved to be a tutorial about making that type of animation in Lightwave.. that would be the one. How to's of that type of final quality is sorely lacking.

erikals
06-17-2017, 11:46 AM
it took him months to do it, with several obstacles, so i don't think there will be any tutorial on it.
one of the reasons the character didn't have hair was because it was too difficult for him to get a good FiberFX result.

however... :)
he did share Lots on great info here >
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?137719

use archive mode for search >
http://forums.newtek.com/archive/index.php/t-137719

erikals
06-24-2017, 06:05 AM
LightWiki Facebook / Umberto Celentano‎  [Tony Reynolds]

LightWave Octane
more info > https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10211787435795823&set=gm.819572821553131&type=3

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19264639_10211787435795823_5118291484008355528_o.j pg?oh=b0f14a83dfe72b55f73a4de7d083fcd2&oe=59E4390E

prometheus
06-24-2017, 07:18 AM
LightWiki Facebook / Umberto Celentano‎  [Tony Reynolds]

LightWave Octane
more info > https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10211787435795823&set=gm.819572821553131&type=3

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19264639_10211787435795823_5118291484008355528_o.j pg?oh=b0f14a83dfe72b55f73a4de7d083fcd2&oe=59E4390E

Semi decent, but a lot of that is due to of the actual model being so symmetrical and not looking more natural, eyes and hair not working for me...skin ok but not spectacular, I think it lacks microdisplacement or bump structure as well.
I think something is missing in light and shadows as well to get a more realistic result, itīs not a bad render..but not spectaculary good either.

erikals
06-24-2017, 07:41 AM
a lot of 'but'

however i see this as a great starting point.

prometheus
06-24-2017, 11:46 AM
a lot of 'but'

however i see this as a great starting point.

I am a big fan of butts :)

50one
06-24-2017, 02:13 PM
I am a big fan of butts :)

I thought you might be.

Badum tish!

prometheus
06-26-2017, 06:20 AM
I thought you might be.

Badum tish!

Pure Letterman quality punchlines :)
Badum tish!

artzgo
07-24-2017, 01:07 PM
My test of Emily.

jwiede
07-24-2017, 01:36 PM
My test of Emily.

With all due respect, whatever you're using for hair, find something else. ;D

Also, in case you're not aware of it, in the left middle of the image close to the skin (see yellow circle in attached img), there's a "hole"/reduced-density region in her hair which looks very odd and unrealistic* w.r.t. the hair "below" it.

137462

*: The hair's all rather unrealistic, but those areas are even worse than most.

jwiede
07-24-2017, 10:45 PM
My apologies for sounding so harsh, reading back it was more so than I'd intended. I just see a bunch of visual issues with the hair in that picture -- many of which seem to stem from fiber generation (density and coarseness) and shading, as opposed to anything specific w.r.t. artist styling or assigned coloration.

erikals
07-25-2017, 12:12 AM
i like the skin shader though, with local tweaks it would look awesome. please share info if you can. :) :)

artzgo
07-25-2017, 02:10 AM
Yes, hair needs improvement but hard to do very good in LW

artzgo
07-25-2017, 10:00 AM
i like the skin shader though, with local tweaks it would look awesome. please share info if you can. :) :)

I use a simply skin shader

erikals
07-25-2017, 10:19 AM
nice, thank you, i'll give it a compare / test with Chris Jones setup later on,
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?137719-Human-Progress&p=1381956&viewfull=1#post1381956

jwiede
07-25-2017, 11:28 AM
Yes, hair needs improvement but hard to do very good in LW

Oh I agree completely, FFX still has legions of issues.

Clearly LW3DG is attempting to fix FFX shading issues in LW Next, I just hope they're also addressing the many, as-relevant UI/UX usability/discoverability and fiber generation/styling/mgmt. problems with FFX -- shading is by no means FFX's only problem (it's been discussed to death, do a search if you want the list of issues).

artzgo
07-25-2017, 12:40 PM
nice, thank you, i'll give it a compare / test with Chris Jones setup later on,
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?137719-Human-Progress&p=1381956&viewfull=1#post1381956
I tried the Cris method but did not have good results

- - - Updated - - -


Oh I agree completely, FFX still has legions of issues.

Clearly LW3DG is attempting to fix FFX shading issues in LW Next, I just hope they're also addressing the many, as-relevant UI/UX usability/discoverability and fiber generation/styling/mgmt. problems with FFX -- shading is by no means FFX's only problem (it's been discussed to death, do a search if you want the list of issues).

Yes, the current hair is catastrophic and very hard to get a good result ... they often crache LW

artzgo
08-10-2017, 02:43 AM
Update :)

erikals
08-10-2017, 03:30 AM
nice-nice-nice :king:

same node setup?   :)

mav3rick
08-10-2017, 03:51 AM
may help get rich, thick, shiny, healthy hair

https://boots.scene7.com/is/image/Boots/10127764?id=-Klmv1&fmt=jpg&fit=constrain,1&wid=504&hei=548

artzgo
08-10-2017, 07:20 AM
nice-nice-nice :king:

same node setup?   :)
Skin made by Chris Jones node setup :)

- - - Updated - - -


may help get rich, thick, shiny, healthy hair

https://boots.scene7.com/is/image/Boots/10127764?id=-Klmv1&fmt=jpg&fit=constrain,1&wid=504&hei=548
you done hair in LW ever ? ... If not try it

erikals
08-10-2017, 07:23 AM
yeah, you should brush of any hair criticism, it's quite difficult, Especially in LightWave.

let's see what next brings.

erikals
08-10-2017, 07:42 AM
just an PhotoShop eye edit, might spin some tweaking ideas...
gif animation... >

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137630&d=1502372516

artzgo
08-10-2017, 08:16 AM
just an PhotoShop eye edit, might spin some tweaking ideas...
gif animation... >

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137630&d=1502372516
yes, looks better thx.