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View Full Version : what is newtek doing next?? another 7.6 laugh update?



Demon
03-07-2003, 09:23 AM
well i appriciate that Newtek did an update. but to be honest that update was not even worth the waiting for that 18 mb download. what we got? a texture mixer, splinecontroller (keyframes of the splinecontroller are not visual in the time line, that makes editing the keys horrible... imagine editing 50 nodes by hand!!!! :mad: ) and some super deep in spreadsheet hidden buttons and keys noone uses. well newtek, if u want to keep ur lightwavers on ur product u should sometimes reed the communities desires. they are at the front and use ur product every day. if they dont know what to do better, then noone does. well ur productdesigners seem not to be to familair with all the problems ppl have who work with LW.

that update is more or less a joke. i paid a lot of money for an application wich needs a lot of workarounds. instead of fixing that we get that update that has a surfaceblender which has almost no use coz u can do the same stuff with the procedural textures...

i am just very disapointed... :mad:

mattclary
03-07-2003, 09:35 AM
It's a free upgrade, don't expect the world. If you feel another piece of software meets your needs, don't let the door hit you on the way out. I too would have prefered the announcement on LW 8's release (I'm on 6.5b and am holding off on the expenditure until 8), but don't look a gift horse in the mouth. You'd pobably be griping if you had to shell out the $395 for a new version...

Demon
03-07-2003, 09:39 AM
hmm, is it a new version? well we jsut got a 2 new plugs... and splincontroller overwrites bones!!!!!!! WTF

well...better no update then this one.. just my opinion...

quality instead of quantity

mattc
03-07-2003, 10:03 AM
So I take it that the massive upgrade to Lscript was a waste of time then eh?

Geeze, no pleasing some people.

Kind Regards
Matt

bobakabob
03-07-2003, 10:22 AM
:confused: I can't believe such negativity... Re: 'workarounds', Check out the Gallery and see the breathtaking work people are doing with Lightwave 7.5. It's an incredible program, especially for the price.

The only criticism I have of it is that it doesn't do the housework, though I'm working on it...
http://www.invisibleray.co.uk/backgrounds/hooversinspace.jpg

Psyhke
03-07-2003, 10:31 AM
It seems the main thing this 'b' update is for is the Linux Render Node, and the LScript upgrade. They threw in a few goodies too, which is nice. Noone can complain, when they bought LW there wasn't anyone telling them that they would recieve ANY additional features for free.

EyelandArts.com
03-07-2003, 10:42 AM
demon:
Spend more time testing and learning your tools instead of writing unsupported ramblings. You would find that you can add a weightmap to your object so that you can attach it to bone deformations. You would also have noticed that you can edit splinecontroler keyframes in the graph editor. One guy allready showed how to do a deform along spline effect. Also people are reporting MUCH higher rendering speeds and viper seems a lot frendlier with reflections, transparency and gradients.
As to surface blender, you must realize that this is an excellent
way to create a node based surface connector so that you could for example attach a global reflectivity parameter to all your surfaces but edit only the master surface for the whole scene.

Just keeping the information flowing!

Alex

Chuck
03-07-2003, 10:45 AM
7.5b is a maintenance update, meaning that the intent is to correct issues, not to supply features, though we have in fact supplied a few new features and a huge update to LScript, plus rendering on a new OS for us, Linux.

There are lots of fixes in the update. The fixes are the point.

Gui Lo
03-07-2003, 11:11 AM
Well, that kinda answers my question coz I thought that an update with a letter was a maintenance update.

Since a few toys are added I thought this would be a .75 or .6 at least.

Demon got it right. NewTek should look at the things people want ... and that's just what I got!
I'm a winner and Demons a loser, today.

Now I need to go and play, put my renders where my mouth is.
At last, I can glass my pig.

Cheers
Gui Lo

pixelmonk
03-07-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Demon


that update is more or less a joke. i paid a lot of money for an application wich needs a lot of workarounds. instead of fixing that we get that update that has a surfaceblender which has almost no use coz u can do the same stuff with the procedural textures...

i am just very disapointed... :mad:

Dude. it's a small update. It wasn't mean to be the latest and greatest (they're probably .5 or higher in versions at beta test sites). Bugs were fixed too. An important Lscript release happened. If you know about Lscripts or talked to an Lscript wizard, they'd tell you how much this release means to them. If you don't feel you need those features, don't install. There's people still running v6. Those found the new features didn't suit them or didn't feel like buying an upgrade just because there is one.

pixelmonk
03-07-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Psyhke
It seems the main thing this 'b' update is for is the Linux Render Node, and the LScript upgrade. They threw in a few goodies too, which is nice. Noone can complain, when they bought LW there wasn't anyone telling them that they would recieve ANY additional features for free.

True.. it's a x.xB release! It's not a x.0 or even a x.5 release. I'm sure we'll be seeing some kick butt scripts come out now.

EyelandArts.com
03-07-2003, 11:41 AM
yeah, seems the new lscript upgrade is so open, they should have called it LightWave 7.glasnost!

Lamont
03-07-2003, 12:33 PM
You're not paying for it and it's not required. Back up your install and play with it. If you like it, good. If not, move on. Do something constructive and suggest something instead of making a lame attempt to rip into it.

Here is a translation for Demon:

UR not paying for this app. U shld bk up teh install. If U like it, ROXORS, if not, SUXORS. B pozitiv :). Teh way 2 B contruktiv iz 2 be suggestiv, and not rip N2 it.

LMAO!! ROTFL!! ROXORS!! WWJD!?!?

mattclary
03-07-2003, 12:41 PM
LMAO! Jesus would be right there using LightWave! :cool: He could make the fishes and loaves in half the time it normally took.

Judas cow
03-07-2003, 12:49 PM
I just told my friend about this tread and he started laughing and saying "How idiotic!". I mean really, it's a .b upgrade! Demon, I hope I never meet you in public.

Demon
03-07-2003, 12:52 PM
wow wow wow

i guess i hit da community right. well i am with lightwave a long time and i am the loser of day. ok, but i think that forum is just there to tell ur opinion.

first i think, i know my tools pretty good, BUT u r right, i didnt try it with weightmaps. my fault. but going into the grapheditor to change the keys for the splincontroller is freaky.


You would also have noticed that you can edit splinecontroler keyframes in the graph editor.

i have noticed that, but make 50 nodes, and then give all of em some keyframes. now i wanna see ya saving time while going to GE and delete em one by one.

i am married to lightwave and i use it every day. i addmit that i dont use lscript. and if that got a big enhancement, then i cant tell coz i dont use it. but what is wrong sharing my point of view?

well will i be hated for the next thousand years now?

omg ppl c`mon, lightwave is not a relegion even if some ppl think it might be. its exelent but there are still features missing since 5.0 and newtek didnt get it included untill today. well i deffenetly dont wanna be a ***** or spreding negative vibration.

i just say what i think and thereare always some ppl who feel offended.

what about an unlimited undo? since 5.0 ppl demanding it in layout... what we got till today?

ok enuff, thx newtek for that great fix and keep up the good work.

lightwave rules

Demon
03-07-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Lamont
You're not paying for it and it's not required. Back up your install and play with it. If you like it, good. If not, move on. Do something constructive and suggest something instead of making a lame attempt to rip into it.

Here is a translation for Demon:

UR not paying for this app. U shld bk up teh install. If U like it, ROXORS, if not, SUXORS. B pozitiv :). Teh way 2 B contruktiv iz 2 be suggestiv, and not rip N2 it.



well then i guess u could start with the positive thing.

u make one BIG mistake. i did not say anything offending against anyone of u guys. so try to be fair enuff to critize my point of view and dont get personal. not necessary.

i like lightwave as much as u guys do, but i dont shout out halleluja if lightwave gets tools which other applications already have for years.

so long and be fair, i was just saying my opinion. well here in germany its no crime, but it seems in sandiego it is.

anyway have fun guys

Lamont
03-07-2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Judas cow
I just told my friend about this tread and he started laughing and saying "How idiotic!". I mean really, it's a .b upgrade! Demon, I hope I never meet you in public. I wouldn't call what he said "idiotic". Demon should have just taken a different approach. Just that if you are going to say "Fix this!!" or "This sucks!!", it would generate a good thread by having some sort of suggestion. That way if Newtek does take the advice, they can see where and how the users came up with the ideas to fix an issue.

His thing about 50 points on a spline is a valid argument. But there are ways to manage such a huge amount of animation data. It may not be clean, but I am sure it would work (sliders controlling spline-point groups?). If Demon suggested something, then it would start the thinking process amoung other users here.

Anyways, every Lightwave user here knows how defensive we can get about our 3D application of choice. Same goes for Mac users! ^_^!!

http://digitalweapon.net/2.gif

Demon
03-07-2003, 01:15 PM
well thx lamont,

u should see me if i meet a 3d max guy who wants to tell me that lightwave sucks... i just loses his head... so ur right. i started the approach from the wrong side.. to impulsive and not well thought about. but hey, i am one of you guys, i am also a waver. so dont tourcher me and dont bring me to the cross.

so long be peacefull :)

Lamont
03-07-2003, 01:20 PM
I have nothing against any user here Demon... well maybe Chuck ^_^!!

All I want is to see someone come up with suggestions to fix a problem or issue besides point it out. Or do a little exploring before writing something off as a bug.

It helps everyone in the long-run. Maybe if we had a message board back in Lightwave version 5.0, we'd have a different application. But we have one now, so everyone post away.

Demon
03-07-2003, 01:32 PM
well thats very true Lamont.

suggestion help more as stupid comments. well can we just delete that threat??? :D

Gui Lo
03-07-2003, 01:43 PM
Some you win and some you lose.
I do understand. From 6.5 to vers 7 there was very little that effected me but I upgraded anyway.

Now that investment is being paid off with the stuff in 7.5 and now 7.5b.

I don't do much animation but I did want a better Viper and some kind of Surface Depth control. I think surface merging will be more powerful than it first appears.

And now I get to glass my pig (which is nearly done).

Gui Lo

faulknermano
03-07-2003, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by pixelmonk
If you know about Lscripts or talked to an Lscript wizard, they'd tell you how much this release means to them.

no wizard here... but i do a have :D on my face... yes indeedy...

Freak
03-07-2003, 08:11 PM
I'm just amazed that less than a day after it's release, people can complain that it's not good enough...... (Go and use it)

I talked to Bob about LScript 2.6 last year just after he finished it... He really worked hard on it, it's a very decent upgrade as well as fixed ALL known bugs....

Surface Mixer, New Gradient options, and a Linux Render Node..
ALL FOR FREE!!!!!

ALSO many, many plugins & LScripts have been updated,
and recieved slight bug fixes...

Add to the fact that 7.5 added a whole bunch of new features.
sliders, MUCH faster OGL speed, (heaps more)

Has anyone checked the price of LW lately?
It's damn cheap, considering what you get......
Personally, I feel very happy with my LW 7.0 upgrade...
Now with 7.5b...... It's two added upgrades and loads of features,
that i didn't even pay for, or even expect......

Lots of people worked hard to get it to us..
I'm happy for people to voice opinions, (even when i don't agree)
but don't expect us all to have the same view.....

It's easy to be negative, it's harder to provide constructive criticism, that may actually improve the situation.

I dunno about you.... But when i don't like something i don't use it! Fairly simple really.....

Judas cow
03-07-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Demon
i have noticed that, but make 50 nodes, and then give all of em some keyframes. now i wanna see ya saving time while going to GE and delete em one by one. Why would you delete them one by one? Just double click on the spline group in the channel list, this brings ALL of the spline channels into the channel bin, shift-click the first and the last channel to select them all. Press 'a' to auto-fit all the keyframes and then right-click and drag out a box to select a group of keys, and press delete.

And Demon, I don't see why you're surprised about the replies here. You started a flame thread, and that's what you got. What did you expect? Newtek to magically pull 50 more FREE features out of their butts? I mean really, you should learn how to use Graph Editor AT LEAST before you ask for new FREE features.

mattc
03-08-2003, 12:40 AM
I dunno if anyone noticed, but motionmixer has goneto v2.1....

Regards
MAtt

John Fornasar
03-08-2003, 08:25 AM
I mean really, you should learn how to use Graph Editor AT LEAST before you ask for new FREE features.

I agree here, and learn a little about file version control...


what about an unlimited undo? since 5.0 ppl demanding it in layout... what we got till today?

Not all "ppl" have been "demanding" it...

You might spend some time organising a "version control" filing system. There is ***no reason**in the world to need "Unlimited Undo". If a model or a scene is that screwed up, you're better off closing it out and loading the last successful model or scene..

*** I'm pretty sure I saw a free LScript on Flay that'll give you a button in Layout and/or Modeler to automatically save your work with a new version number.

Psyhke
03-08-2003, 04:06 PM
Again, it's a 'b' update. As such, it's not crap. I think what people are uppity about is that they're anxious for a new version, and they wished NT would release 8.0 instead of 7.5b.

CB_3D
03-08-2003, 04:52 PM
the very first thing i tried (ok, after the spline control;-) was the Slider channel naming problem.

Fixed! Now you can import (Load From Scene) sliders and the channel names stay intact!

And it was for free...ergo...happy guy.

Thanks, Newtek.

mav3rick
03-08-2003, 04:58 PM
hey CIM
good one!

cresshead
03-08-2003, 07:02 PM
cheers newtek, thanks for the hard work you put in on the bug fix update...

you people who are complaiing should ask about how other vendors of 3d app approach bug fixing 3d apps...max 4 had around 3 bug fixes and each one actually fixed AND broke new stuff on each bugfix...and the last fix for max 4 still had stuff broke that was fine in max 4.0....video post glow for example...

now they have max 5.0 and max 5.1...which has quite a few bugs and seem to crawl along....

newtek are doing a great job here..you really need to look at the fade grass on the other side of the fence....

okay we are ALL waiting for lightwave 8...but we can do brilliant stuff in lw 7.5 now...so i'll be prepared to wait for the proper release of lightwave 8 when it's good n ready...

i'd expect it to be announced at nab and probably ship at siggraph.

for maximum impact in the news.


steve g

SplineGod
03-08-2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
7.5b is a maintenance update, meaning that the intent is to correct issues, not to supply features, though we have in fact supplied a few new features and a huge update to LScript, plus rendering on a new OS for us, Linux.

There are lots of fixes in the update. The fixes are the point.
Hey Chuck,
Do you know if selection sets are preserved when you do a load from scene?

Chuck
03-09-2003, 08:14 AM
Cim,

There are behavioral changes in LScript, those were made for very good reasons, and they do result in many previous scripts requiring updating in order to work. The changes and the whys and wherefores are all documented in the LScript notes, and as a participant in the LScript mailing list I'm sure you are already aware of much of that and also know perfectly well that the new LScript isn't crap at all, but a pretty incredible advancement in capability that did require changes in behavior for the increase in power it offers to the user.

Chuck
03-09-2003, 09:14 AM
LScript 2.6 is a massive update, with lots of goodies, said Steve Hurley, of Worley Laboratories. It wouldn't be unreasonable to have called it 3.0, considering the major increase in power it offers to users to customize LightWave to their production needs.


The new docs on LScript 2.6, which detail the changes in behavior as well as the new commands and functions, are supposed to be on the Developer page, but I note the web team does not have them posted yet. I'm sure they'll get to that shortly, and in the meantime, Bob Hood has put them up on LightWave Outpost:

http://www.lightwave-outpost.com/Bob/LScript/v26.html

jcool
03-10-2003, 12:25 AM
Boy, the fanboys have done a number on Demon here, but he does have a point, which could have been made more delicately. I'll have to admit, I wasn't too impressed by the feature list for this update either. I'm all for bug fixes, if this was the point of this update, but there was no "fixed bug list," so all it appears to be is a couple of plugins and a revised l-script. It's getting time for a another real update to Lightwave, and 7.5b isn't that. Plus, with 7.5b coming so close to NAB, it tends to make me think that we won't see an 8.0 release at the show (Chuck, feel free to correct me on this ;) ), so Siggraph is probably the earliest now.. That's a little disheartening...

If it's wrong to want a real dopesheet and multiple undos, I don't want to be right..

Seriously Chuck, how about a fixed bug list? I'd like to know how much better LW is going to work now...

Red_Oddity
03-10-2003, 05:32 AM
I can't understand why people biatch so much about an update...

I'm not sure how many of you have Adobe software or 3D Max, but let me tell you that with Adobe you have to PAY for every point release of an update and Discreet wreaks havoc on the plugin community with every update...

Newtek updates LScript for FREE so that it has more potential for the future and MAYBE some of your MOSTLY FREE Lscript plugins you have might need a small revision..but the first thing people do is kick NT down...WTF is that about, you don't HAVE to update you know, this isn't some mandatory network update people...

As for extra features, heck, that's the part i always liked about Newtek, it gives me another reason to go actually PLAYING with LW again, figuring out what is possible now.

(What i don't like though is the lighting bug that emerged on the Mac, since we used a mixed setup here, but, i've not really needed updates that much since LW has behaved pretty good last year in our production pipe-line.)

Ahwell, can't please everyone...i'm back to playing again....

Phil
03-10-2003, 06:24 AM
Well my only current problem is that the linux screamernet node crashes with a segmentation fault under SuSE 8.1. It installs just fine, but try and run either of the .sh scripts and *boom* segmentation fault.

There's next to no documentation for the linux side of things either...simply a 'installation and usage is the same as for any other platform' comment in the update read me.

Matt
03-10-2003, 08:00 AM
jcool is spot on, a fixed bug list would have made the update seem
less "oh just bung 'em a couple of plugins, that'll shut them up!"

and if any improvements were made to speed I'd love to know!

papou
03-10-2003, 09:01 AM
> how about a fixed bug list?
yep, i would like to see it too.

pixelmonk
03-10-2003, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by CIM
Actually, the 7.5b patch is pretty much crap. Newtek was developing this for a year and all they can give us are a few crappy Surface tools and some lame Spline things--not to mention a totally screwed up new version of LScript that breaks half of the existing scripts out there!

Yay the spreader of all things joyous in the world. Once you stop eating the cereal someone must have pissed in, go to Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs > Lightwave > Uninstall. It's killing you that you have LW. Save yourself!!!! SAVE YOURSELF!!!

hrgiger
03-10-2003, 09:34 AM
Cim, I can see that there are no bounds to your bitching. So, the new lscript breaks some of the old lscripts. Wah. I see, so Newtek is supposed to be constantly evolving but, we're not supposed to improve or evolve our lscripts at all? Sure, that makes sense.
Jcool, what does this update have to do with when the next update will be out? This was a maintenance update, not a feature update. I'm sure the good peeople at Newtek threw in the few updates there are to appease ingrates like Cim but to no avail apparantly. Lightwave 7 was a total surprise when it came out, absolutely no announcement, and I don't see that LW 8 will be any different. It could be tomorrow, or at Siggraph or 8 months from now.
It's a free update with powerful new lsript capabilities, fixed sliders, and a few nice new features. Just say thanks, wipe the tears from your eyes, and shut up. Talk about unappreciative.

pixelmonk
03-10-2003, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by jcool
..snipped... It's getting time for a another real update to Lightwave, and 7.5b isn't that. Plus, with 7.5b coming so close to NAB, it tends to make me think that we won't see an 8.0 release at the show (Chuck, feel free to correct me on this ;) ), so Siggraph is probably the earliest now.. That's a little disheartening...


NAB is for video.. they're showcasing the Toaster3 there. They've never announced, nor has any other 3D developer announced a new version at NAB. That's a SIGGRAPH thing.

If something does show at SIGGRAPH, I'm hoping it won't have the vaporware complex like Messiah did (for about 2-3 years). Some developers tend to announce too soon and have people lose interest when the product isn't available within a decent time period.

tapsnap
03-10-2003, 09:52 AM
"7.5b is a maintenance update, meaning that the intent is to correct issues..."
Ahh, you could have fooled me. Oh, maybe you are just refering to the PC version, I get it now.... Take a look at the posts on the Mac forum and tell me if this update is solving issues. I, for one, will not be downloading this update onto my Mac.

jcool
03-10-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by pixelmonk
NAB is for video.. they're showcasing the Toaster3 there. They've never announced, nor has any other 3D developer announced a new version at NAB. That's a SIGGRAPH thing.


Actually, there is plenty of 3D activity at NAB. I guess you've forgotten Maya 4.0 in 2001 and LW 7.5 last year, which was released a couple weeks after NAB (and was probably intended to be ready for NAB, if I had to guess). That's what I could find on the web in 2 minutes.

robewil
03-10-2003, 11:08 AM
jcool

If you check your history, ever since Newtek unbundled Lightwave from the original Video Toaster, major product updates have been announced and first shown at Siggraph. NAB, to Newtek at least, is primarily a showcase for the Video Toaster. The Lightwave aspects they do show at NAB are usually the FX Monkey that allows pure videographers (i.e. non-3D people) how to quickly create logo animations and use them in their productions.

Lamont
03-10-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by CIM
Actually, the 7.5b patch is pretty much crap. Newtek was developing this for a year and all they can give us are a few crappy Surface tools and some lame Spline things--not to mention a totally screwed up new version of LScript that breaks half of the existing scripts out there! It's up to the plug-in developers to update their plug-ins. Not Newtek.

I am sure NewTek's been working on something besides this patch. Geez, some people...

jcool
03-10-2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by robewil
jcool

If you check your history, ever since Newtek unbundled Lightwave from the original Video Toaster, major product updates have been announced and first shown at Siggraph. NAB, to Newtek at least, is primarily a showcase for the Video Toaster. The Lightwave aspects they do show at NAB are usually the FX Monkey that allows pure videographers (i.e. non-3D people) how to quickly create logo animations and use them in their productions.

This may be generally true in Newtek's case, although again, 7.5 WAS released very close to NAB last year. There's no reason why they couldn't do something similar again this year, which is what I was hoping for. However, my point was that it's unlikely that Newtek would put out this 7.5b release if they had 8.0 coming out in the next month or so.

A better question is, why are people arguing this point? Who cares?

faulknermano
03-10-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by hrgiger
Cim, I can see that there are no bounds to your bitching. So, the new lscript breaks some of the old lscripts. Wah. I see, so Newtek is supposed to be constantly evolving but, we're not supposed to improve or evolve our lscripts at all? Sure, that makes sense..

CIM, didnt you ask for the integration of lightwave? if you're bitching about this update i cant imagine what you'll say IF lightwave gets integrated.

in my assessment, i wouldnt pay much attention to CIM's persistent and often out-of-place rants... it analogous with a broken car alarm that keeps going off in the middle of the night.

robewil
03-11-2003, 12:08 AM
However, my point was that it's unlikely that Newtek would put out this 7.5b release if they had 8.0 coming out in the next month or so.
Whoever said Lightwave 8.0 is coming out in a month or so? As I implied earlier, Siggraph is the best bet when that may happen.

Matt
03-11-2003, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by faulknermano
in my assessment, i wouldnt pay much attention to CIM's persistent and often out-of-place rants... it analogous with a broken car alarm that keeps going off in the middle of the night.

ROTF LMAO!!! Hahahaha!!!

Sorry CIM, that was funny!

But everyone is entitled to their opinion, and CIM is entitled to his.

hrgiger
03-11-2003, 09:16 AM
Matt, that is correct. Cim has every right to be bitchy and whiney! God bless America.

Judas cow
03-11-2003, 04:12 PM
And everyone has the right to ***** right back at CIM. God bless America.

tapsnap
03-12-2003, 08:21 AM
"7.5b is a maintenance update, meaning that the intent is to correct issues..."

And last night the Mac 7.5b update was pulled from the download page until they fix....guess what?...... bug problems! How do you like them apples?

mattclary
03-12-2003, 08:42 AM
hehehe... hehehe.... "apples", get it? hehehe...

mav3rick
03-13-2003, 06:58 AM
CIM rock ON!
God bless CIM

jb_gfx
03-13-2003, 08:20 PM
I think a the peoples who are ranting about 7.5b don't use the rights arguments, what they really piss them off imho is that maintenance update come very late, 18 month after version 7.5 and doesn't fix much things, in fact it break a few and even bring some new problems (more crashes seams to occurs when you send an object from modeler to layout, a lot of lscripts were broken with 2.6 (yeah only old scripts, like ACS4 LoL!), etc...). On a counterpart it doesn't bring much things. I really think some improments on old tools we use everdyday would be really more important than gadgets like the SplineControl (actually FI's BezierBend, a free plugin is way better than this kiddy toy). What about a new bevel tool la bevel++? What about improving old tools like an interactive SetValue? Well I won't list all the features that need to be upgraded, users alreday made it on this board and the old one.

Well 18 month for this update make me wonder if there is still some coders at Newtek.. specially when you know the LS 2.6 doc was posted on Rob Hood's site in en august or early september of last year, and when the same R. Hood said the 7.5b was in code freeze stage at the same date... What happened all that time? The staff debugged the SplineControl, or they made that Linux renderer? Ah well maybe they just installed Unreal Tournament 2003 on their internal network.. that would explain it all.. ;)



Americans bless their world, their is no god to save your souls.

papou
03-13-2003, 09:03 PM
nono, Bib Hood is playing Battlefield1942.

hrgiger
03-13-2003, 10:31 PM
People being mad about an update coming out "late" doesn't seem right either since as far as I know, there isn't any kind of release schedule.
And what people can't seem to grasp is that this last update isn't the result of 18 months of hard work. It's a maintenance update. Duh.
I have all the faith in the world that LW 8 will be great.

jin choung
03-14-2003, 01:20 AM
well,

if there are any more maintenance upgrades, please please please fix TEXTURE GUIDE!

jin

faulknermano
03-14-2003, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by papou
nono, Bib Hood is playing Battlefield1942.


Originally posted by jb_gfx
posted on Rob Hood's site

it's Bob Hood, not Bib, or Rob, just in case you didnt know.

mattc
03-14-2003, 02:06 AM
BTW, Lw7.5 only appeared in June 2002...so, umm, that's not 18 months.

As for CIM, he knows perfectly well that Bob Hood is working on the lscript issues. 5 or 6 whining threads about the same thing is not particularly productive.

In fact, Bob Hood confirmed that a bug that CIM was bitching about has been fixed in Lscript 2.6.1 (this was this morning)so whining that Newtek isn't doing anything about it (ala the threads on cgtalk) is plainly wrong.

Kind Regards
Matt

PS: Jin, yes it'd be nice if Texture guide was fixed.

Demon
03-14-2003, 04:13 AM
well after all it seems that i was not mistaken with my threat. this threat is probably the most read threat here. and it shows that the update brings even more problems with it. i was digging in a hornets nest and ppl said i am too negative or even "idiotic" well i am pretty straight and i dont make things nicer as they are. i say what i think and after all it shows i wasnt too wrong. all i want is that the users of lightwave, so am i, shouldnt jaust worship newtek for every lil update they make. and if u tell me now that its free, then i would reply: its nearly impossible to pay for an update which has to be taken away again coz it causes even more bugs. well i am not one of those user who worship newtek. i am a user of the tool and i need it for my productions and if i wouldnt have been too much into lightwave i would have changed the tool a long time. every tool has its weekness and powers, but the power behind all tool is the way u use it. other applications getting better coz the companies take care of the suggestions ppl say and they try to involve them. there was a threat about the "wish list of improvments" well newtek has NOTHING done from them. they implent tools which are for free anyway and call it the 7.5 update. well thats all from me. i just wish a better support from newtek and that they more consider the needs of their users.

so long ppl, keep up the good werk and let the render live

isnowboard
03-14-2003, 07:01 AM
What I find interesting is that Video Toaster gets a free update every other week and Lightwave users, Newtek's bread and butter get one every other six month period or longer.

The fact CIM demands quality and reliability is a bad thing? To say stuff like wait till LW8 etc is crap. There are many known bugs. I just just don't know why they haven't released mini patches to fix them, instead of accumulating them for a big release, and then finding that many scripts are broken. A maintenace update?:confused: How many studios could afford to apply this maintenance update? It's not worth the risk, hassle or money it costs them. You think a freelancer is touching this update? The fact Shave now works for owners of it is just a bonus, not something Newtek should be tooting their horns about. I doubt they would say that it was their intent to make Shave work better.

There's no doubt Newtek is working hard on this issue, because right now, there's a lot of egg on their face. MAC people were unwilling beta testers, early bird PC people had to do their own maintenance retesting scripts and all the negativity pouring out.

Newtek makes sales with the "best bang for buck" moniker, but a few hundred bucks isn't much for people to start swinging the other way.

Ok, back to modeler. Wait, it's the same modeler as it was a year ago, but now I have to uninstall the update to get my scripts back to do without.

I trust and hope the midnight oil is burning in Texas to get the improvements before LW8. (or is it California? joke)

Chuck
03-14-2003, 07:54 AM
We have been prototyping a development process in the Video development team that we plan to apply to all NewTek products. The results have been very good, as you point out, with frequent maintenance updates and very stable releases.

Secondly, NewTek has not been "tooting its horn" with regard to Shave and a Haircut. An end user reported that he had tried the plugin with 7.5b and that it seemed to work, whereas it had had difficulties with previous 7.x releases, and I repeated that information because at the time it was the one comment that had been made regarding a change in performance of a commercial C/C++ based plugin. This was in response to CIM making a blanket claim that 7.5b had impacted "all plugins", both C/C++ plugins and LScripts, despite the fact that such was clearly not the case. I did not even remotely imply that any credit was due here on the account of any improvement of LW to S&H, I just noted what one user reported.

Lastly, Video Toaster is every bit as much NewTek's bread and butter as is LightWave, and that's a very good thing. Multiple products provide a more stable and consistent revenue stream than does dependence on a single product.

isnowboard
03-14-2003, 08:39 AM
Tooting. Oops. I meant gloating...You're right, Newtek didn't say that.

But I still don't know why, when bugs are found and fixed inhouse that they aren't released promptly to the Lightwave end? Can you confirm there will indeed be a patch to the patch sooner or later?

Chuck
03-14-2003, 09:46 AM
I confirmed that there would be a patch to the patch in the announcement that we were withdrawing the Mac version, and have mentioned that in several of my messages since. The development staff is working on these as rapidly as possible. We will have the replacement patches up as soon as the issues that have been discovered are definitely corrected. We do not expect that to take long, but I hope you will understand if we do not try to commit to some specific period at this point.

Phil
03-14-2003, 12:56 PM
On what timescale might you bring across the new development approach (from VideoToaster) to the Lightwave product?

It is a shame that there was no way (it seems) to have a transition period that allowed users to update to 7.5b and run their old scripts. It's almost as frustrating as when LScript was being 'broken' during 5.5-5.6 development and does make me nervous about relying on it too heavily. If you're going to make fundamental changes, perhaps a version system (with legacy support for at least the previous version) should be considered in future to reduce these headaches?

I'm very happy to see that choosing 'no' to find a replacement image on loading an object into layout no longer crashes layout, but must admit to being somewhat frustrated that it has taken so long to see this rather major bug eliminated. I reported it shortly after getting 7.0 last year, reported it again at 7.5 and it seems only now to have been fixed in 7.5b.
A list of bugs squashed and known would be *so* useful - there's no way to know exactly what is still broken. At least discreet seem to post their huge bug list so you know just what is busted in their 3ds max software. It would seem a common courtesy to users to provide this kind of information, if only to reduce their frustration when they run across a problem.

Phil.

mattc
03-14-2003, 01:31 PM
As a side note in regards to Shave, Joe Alter did post a want ad (on the LW-P mailing list) for someone to work on something for LW...so I'd assume it'd be Shave....

Regards
Matt

Robert Zeltsch
03-14-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
We will have the replacement patches up as soon as the issues that have been discovered are definitely corrected.

@ Chuck: Is there a bugfix for the PC 7.5b update in progress too? There are many problems in LW since the update...
Thank you.

papou
03-15-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by faulknermano
it's Bob Hood, not Bib, or Rob, just in case you didnt know.
yeaahhhh i know...that was my way to correct jb_gfx...

jb_gfx
03-15-2003, 12:53 PM
It's Robert Hood so it can be reduced to Rob Hood without being wrong. Tho Bob is the most used, I agree.

Anyway thx for the correction lessons giver ;)

faulknermano
03-15-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by jb_gfx
It's Robert Hood so it can be reduced to Rob Hood without being wrong. Tho Bob is the most used, I agree.

Anyway thx for the correction lessons giver ;)

we're just trying to be sure.. that's all.. lest we anger the gods. :D

jin choung
03-15-2003, 11:10 PM
there's a cool article in 3D WORLD and they take a roll call on what the different software pkgs can do to better themselves.

for lightwave, they do mention the possible need for a total rewrite for all the potential needs.

for the stuff that i want like edges and edge weighting and such and making the design of the entire package more consistent, i wouldn't disagree.

jin

John Fornasar
03-16-2003, 08:58 PM
From a programming point of view, making a judgement that "the program needs a complete rewrite" without reading the source code is assinine.

Do they want a complete rewrite of the renderer?

While I enjoy receiving the magazine, I find an inconsistency not only from issue to issue, but from one article to the next. The magazine has good profiles, tutorials (however, the LW tutorials in particular are at a very basic level), and product intros, but the editorial end could use some help.

If I need to read about anybodys software being better than anyone else's software, I can bring up any thread started by a forum troll. 3D World is a better part of $100 by the time you get it shipped to the U.S.

(... and please don't get me wrong here, it's not just about LW, but their entire coverage.)

faulknermano
03-17-2003, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by John Fornasar
From a programming point of view, making a judgement that "the program needs a complete rewrite" without reading the source code is assinine.

i agree.