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jperk
04-02-2017, 09:54 AM
I've been learning Maya and Mudbox at my University. I started on version 2015, but switched to 2016. I've learned quite a lot w/ Maya and have a understanding of modeling, animation, rigging/ weight painting, UV mapping ,etc. My biggest gripe with Maya is the random bugs/ glitches and the crashes. I'm not familiar with a lot of the other 3D apps, but I know I've never encountered such frustration with other software from Adobe for example in terms of stability. Maybe 3D is just a more complex realm?

The reason I am interested in LW is maybe nostalgia at this point? When I was much younger around 12 or 13, I was given a bunch of back issues of DV Magazine. I remember seeing the adverts / reviews/ previews of LW 5.5 , LW6, and LW7. I was always eager to purchase the academic version, but being so young could never afford it. I think I went w/ Truespace 4 and got a good price on it. However, I never got far with modeling anything good, but always had some fun in it. ;) Anyway, despite never using LW I always heard good things online and it always was better priced compared to the alternatives. That still seems to be the case.

Anyway, the subscription based module Autodesk offers has prompted me to look elsewhere to do commercial work. I understand larger studios prefer Maya and Autodesk products, which raises my concern in switching to non-Autodesk software. So far, I'm looking into Lightwave and Modo, which I hear are similar. I'm a little familiar with Blender (recent versions) as well, but only have used the modeling tools, rendering, weight painting and some rigging. However, switching from Blender back to Maya and vice versa wasn't fun. Too completely different interfaces and shortcuts. There are some features I like in Blender and some I like in Maya. I'm wondering how the learning curve will be switching from Maya to say LW. Blender's interface is kind of bizarre, but Maya's can feel congested/cluttered.

So my biggest questions really:


Is it worth buying an older LW license from someone (w/ intentions to upgrade down the road) and learn LW for commercial work? Or should I go with Modo Indie, which I think offers a standalone non subscription price?

How does Lightwave, Modo, Blender, and Maya compare w/ each other?

Does LW have a good community of support/ tutorials, etc? Am I going to need to spend more money on plugins to make the software better?

Is LW friendly with game engines such as Unreal and Unity? I know Blender and Modo work pretty well with both engines (from what I've heard).

Lastly, given that the industry rarely uses LW (I hear from my professors Maya is industry standard), is it necessary to even consider switching and buying an older license (LW9.5 or 10)?



I'm just a student, but here are some examples of my 3d work:

Maya and Mudbox:
136423

136424

(background on second image is just a real-life photo and not actual 3D)

Blender

136425

TheLexx
04-02-2017, 10:58 AM
Your five questions are deceptively simple, but the answers are not so simple, nor can be given as absolutes. If you're learning Maya and Mudbox at college and looking to work for studios with those pipelines, then no it is not worth switching and the nostalgia bit makes less sense to me, but if you are serious about paragraph 2, maybe delay your decision till Lightwave Next is released and evaluate again.

If you are looking for a very decent jack-of-trades to maybe freelance away from a subscription model, then Lightwave is certainly a great choice. To comment specifically on your question 3, tutorials are all over the place and don't go buying every plugin thinking they are all needed, but some plugins can make software "better" depending on what you are trying to do....which is pretty much true of all 3D software.

prometheus
04-02-2017, 11:31 AM
My suggestion, if you are close to any area that seems to require Maya..Usa ? etc, try hold on to some sort of Maya license ..since that is what you have learned and that may be what has the most openings.
Though If you feel you would like to aim for freelancing, Simply download the trial of lightwave 2015 and see how that works for you.
Otherwise I would say..just wait and do nothing until the new lightwave comes out, this release I think is where Lightwave will establish itīs direction as a runner up again against other major 3d apps, or it will strangle itself to become less of an actor than even before.
Meanwhile, get in to learning blender while waiting for what the next lightwave will bring.

erikals
04-02-2017, 04:34 PM
i'll just copy what Lexx/prometheus said   :)

erikals
04-02-2017, 04:43 PM
1- Is it worth buying an older LW license from someone (w/ intentions to upgrade down the road) and learn LW for commercial work? Or should I go with Modo Indie, which I think offers a standalone non subscription price?
might be wort it, i started out buying an old LW version, then upgrades.
2- How does Lightwave, Modo, Blender, and Maya compare w/ each other?
outch. i'll give you the short version, LW is good for smacking things up and throwing it out the door with great quality. great for indie.
3- Does LW have a good community of support/ tutorials, etc? Am I going to need to spend more money on plugins to make the software better?
yes, LW has a great community.
4- Is LW friendly with game engines such as Unreal and Unity? I know Blender and Modo work pretty well with both engines (from what I've heard).
nah, not so much as far as i know, but i'll let others answer.
5- Lastly, given that the industry rarely uses LW (I hear from my professors Maya is industry standard), is it necessary to even consider switching and buying an older license (LW9.5 or 10)?
if you do, make sure you get LW11. and yes it is worth it, but LW is more known for a one-man-army. if you want a standard program LW might not be for you.

shrox
04-02-2017, 05:29 PM
Do both.

jperk
04-02-2017, 09:11 PM
Maybe I will just learn both. I would probably invest in Maya LT if it didn't have the subscription module. However, Maya and Mudbox experience will look good on my resume. Maybe I will just look into LW for personal home use/ freelance.

How does weight painting/ character rigging compare in LW compare to Maya? What about UV mapping and animation (is it similar to snapping w/ "S" in Maya?). Also, how does LW compare w/ Blender and Modo? I hear Modo is quite sluggish with animating / rigging , but offers good modeling tools. Also, Modo indie actually has rendering, which Maya LT does not. And Modo indie has the standalone price of like $300-400, but I don't think upgrades are included.

Newtek seems more friendly in regards to updating from older versions.

OlaHaldor
04-02-2017, 11:52 PM
I used LightWave, mostly Layout for animation/render, for about 10 years as a hobby. I never got the hang of modeling in LightWave except for buildings, which I modeled with the LWCAD plugin.

After over a decade of professional work in a different trade I went to a school to learn more about 3D and make it my career, where we learned Maya. I can clearly see why it's used by so many for rig and animation. Usability, intuitive setup of things, performance.. It's just miles ahead. But yes, you do get a lot of crashes. We use 2016 at the studio, and it's been a nightmare at times. But you learn how to dodge the bullets and find workarounds. Or tread carefully.



Is it worth buying an older LW license from someone (w/ intentions to upgrade down the road) and learn LW for commercial work? Or should I go with Modo Indie, which I think offers a standalone non subscription price?
Perhaps. I find the 2015 version stable for me. If you can find that for a good price, why not.

I wouldn't even consider Modo Indie. It's too restricted. You can't use scripts or plugins for starters..
But you're a student! Foundry has a generous student/graduate program. I got Modo, NukeX and Mari for about $200 as a graduate. It's a full commercial license that will give you a kickstart. They also offer Modo, Mari and Hiero Player (I have no idea what it is though) for a bit less. If you're looking for only Modo as a graduate license I suggest you contact Foundry by email.



How does Lightwave, Modo, Blender, and Maya compare w/ each other?
I am biased, because I use Modo now. My experience was: LightWave is great for layout/camera work/rendering. It's hands down the best I've experienced. It's fast to set up things to make them look beautiful. My biggest gripe with LightWave is the modeling bit. It just never clicked with me.

Then I experienced Maya. The modeling part felt easier for me there, but it still wasn't perfect. Rigging and animation is just a blast. Lighting, rendering and camera work is their weak spot in my opinion, at least coming from LightWave.

And then, just before my graduation, I purchased Modo and started learning it over the summer. My experience is that Modo is sort of the best from LightWave and Maya. Great modeling performance and feedback, interesting rigging and animation tools (I still prefer Maya for such though), and familiar camera/light controls as in LW.

I don't have any experience with Blender except I've opened it to import/export some objects.



Is LW friendly with game engines such as Unreal and Unity? I know Blender and Modo work pretty well with both engines (from what I've heard).
I would honestly pick something else than LW at the moment. Modo or Maya. (Or blender, should you go that route).


Lastly, given that the industry rarely uses LW (I hear from my professors Maya is industry standard), is it necessary to even consider switching and buying an older license (LW9.5 or 10)?

I'd try to get LW2015, or at the very minimum LW11.


How does weight painting/ character rigging compare in LW compare to Maya?
I prefer Maya in this area.


What about UV mapping and animation (is it similar to snapping w/ "S" in Maya?)
UV mapping in Modo is a breeze. I've heard the new UV tools in Maya 2017 is quite good.
You've got a ton of snapping options and features in Modo.


Also, how does LW compare w/ Blender and Modo? I hear Modo is quite sluggish with animating / rigging , but offers good modeling tools.
Very true! I've barely done any animation in Modo except very simple hard surface stuff with hinges, springs or whatever. That's not a big problem. But characters are mostly slow. Maya can do the same character and rig complexity like hot knife in butter.


Also, Modo indie actually has rendering, which Maya LT does not. And Modo indie has the standalone price of like $300-400, but I don't think upgrades are included.
You're better off getting full Modo. Modo indie is very limited, as mentioned above: no scripts, no plugins. You'll be stuck with tools from the stone age if you don't have a couple of scripts to help on making models or rigs.


Newtek seems more friendly in regards to updating from older versions.
That's also true.


As a bottom line: The only reason I keep my LW license around is because of LWCAD, TurbulenceFD and Octane. I find the Octane plugin in LW tenfold better and more responsive to the one in Modo. I'm not even sure I'm going to upgrade the license when LW Next hits. Hard to tell, but it's not on my priority list unless they have something I can't get anywhere else at the moment.

Over
04-03-2017, 12:38 AM
Hello,


My biggest gripe with LightWave is the modeling bit

Wow, really man?

I know how to work in Max, C4D, Inventor, Autocad and IMHO thereīs nothing like Lightwave as a modelling tool (Iīve never used Modo, so canīt compare with that one). For now, my opinion is that LW is the most powerful modelling tool out there.

OT: For working with big studios or other relative big companies Iīm going to follow what other are saying, Maya, or Max seems more important at the moment.

samurai_x
04-03-2017, 01:21 AM
Maya, max and zbrush should be your main appz. I use maya, max, lw, modo, blender for different things.

The question is what will be your secondary.
Lw is by far the easiest as secondary. Offers the best in class renderer up to lw 2015. Well rounded for vfx, viz work, ca. There's no shadertree that can be convoluted like modo.

Modo is seen primarily as a modeller and for viz work. Not much for vfx, ca. Modo indie is bang for the buck I wouldn't invest in the main app at this point. The foundry is also owned by a VC. Probably sell it again in the future.

Even though I've basically remapped the hell out of blender to maya style its still odd. Development is also at the mercy of fly by night devs who want to make a name for themselves and get hired then leave. But if you're poor or retired, blender is the best choice.

jperk
04-03-2017, 04:44 PM
I wouldn't say I'm biased towards Maya. When it works it is quite efficient in what it does. I know my way around the interface for the most part. The problem is the bugs and crashes, which I know is not just me experiencing. Maya has always had a rep for it's crashes. And I know I'm not crazy because other students in my course complain and even during my professor's presentation/ demo, Maya will go bonkers and crash.

This worries me because Maya can frustrate me like no tomorrow and if I'm in the workplace shaking my computer monitor and screaming, I fear I won't last at the job. I wonder if companies have ever fired someone for getting pissed at Maya going insane.

I've worked w/ Blender a little and it's a good freebie open source. Just haven't worked in it as much as I have in Maya. Also, it seems as if Blender is aimed at the hobbyist not to say amazing things can be done. It's just most indie game devs that use it don't seem to be getting paid. However, I really like how lightweight it feels and it's not sluggish at all compare to Maya, which can be slow when loading up and requires way more CPU power (and possibly GPU power?).

I know no software is perfect, but I'd love to find one that is more stable and suitable for commercial work. Modo, Cinema4D, Zbrush, and LW seem to be the only alternatives. I've heard great things about Modo both on here and elsewhere on the net, yet I know it's animation tools aren't perfect. Though I don't think anything will match Maya's animation tools. Sadly, not to be negative but it seems Cinema4D kind of stole LW's spotlight in terms of TV production/ broadcast. Maybe the next version of LW will change things up?

LW is still the most affordable on the market w/ no month to month subscriptions. I really like that.

I'm looking into LW or MODO after I graduate. They seem to be good options. Might look into Maya LT, but it's got no render capabilities. I hate the subscription based modules. Looking for a standalone. Also, might look into purchasing an older used Photoshop license prior to CC. Might do the same for LW unless I can get a good deal on Modo that isn't month to month.

I wish Autodesk made Maya LT standalone priced instead of month-to-month. I think it was once free actually or around $200-300.

Schwyhart
04-03-2017, 05:40 PM
For what it's worth- I was taught LW at a local community college. Went to Full Sail and was taught Maya. After I graduated I got so frustrated with Autodesk as a company, I refuse to give them my money. I bought MODO 701, then 801 and then bought LW 2015.
I like MODO for modeling, even more than Maya, and then LW for everything else. However, recently I've been trying to get my grip on modeling in LW and it's not as bad as you'd think. The tools do need some finessing, for sure.
Every major 3D software has pros and cons, so I always look at the company and the community.
LW3DG does right by their customers and they priced LW really good; but the community is all doom and gloom, which gets annoying (Many on here are good though). TF is good too, but I feel they're too big for their own good (I can see them becoming like Autodesk). Then there's AD, which is by far the worst company and their community is all over the place.

You will certainly need Maya to get a job. You can get jobs with other software, but most jobs are for Maya. I don't see that changing.

erikals
04-03-2017, 05:56 PM
IF LightWave does crash, it takes you 5 seconds to Fire it Up!   :king:

Maya... 10 to 45  (depending)
Max.. more than i care to count...

jperk
04-03-2017, 06:42 PM
So max it actually less stable than Maya? Never heard that but then again never used max really. Glad to hear that LW is pretty lightweight. http://forums.newtek.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1503191&noquote=1

erikals
04-03-2017, 06:49 PM
no idea, i only mentioned startup time.
i did have a few crashes last time i tried Max, but that's about all i can say.
(and also one of the reasons why i wasn't eager to pursue using it)

jperk
04-03-2017, 06:52 PM
so you'd say LW or even Modo is more stable?

I've used Mudbox and it's a GODSEND compared to Maya. Great interface never crashed on me unless I subdivided past 7, which is understandable . I usually stay around subdivisions 4. But yeah, Mudbox has a nice interface - clean and simple.

erikals
04-03-2017, 07:03 PM
quite some time since i used Maya to an extent, the answer wouldn't be fair. so other's will have to answer that one.
LightWave is known for being Very stable. (of course, there are exceptions)

---------

sidenote, was Mirror modeling in Maya ever fixed?

toeknee
04-03-2017, 07:46 PM
You know I have been using Lightwave sense 1994 and I really like its workflow. But because I worked for a reseller for a long time. I have also had the opportunity to spend some real time In Max, Maya, C4D, Softimage and Houdini. I also use Zbrush and 3D Coat for modeling. I would agree that Lightwave is way more stable than Maya or Max, but to compete with the 3D work that is happening right now my pipeline is Lightwave, Houdini indie, Octane Render, Zbrush, 3D Coat and Substance painter. I also use many plug-ins for Lightwave like 3rd powers Paint weights, everything from Denis Pontonnier dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr (buy the way all, of his tool are free. He does accept donations and I would recommend donating.) I also use www.hdrlabs.com again free, and IFW2 Procedural textures and shaders www.shaders.co.uk low cost and totally worth the investment. If you are interested in animation I would check out www.rebelhill.net This is where you would find RHiggit this is a very powerful and easy to use auto rigger, there is also a free version. Craig also has the most comprehensive training for animation in Lightwave. If modeling is one of the main things you want to be known for I would also checkout all of the tools at 3rd powers as well as LWCAD www.wtools3d.com.
I really like this pipeline because being based around Lightwave and having hooks in to Houdini and Zbrush I feel I am somewhat future proof, but I still have a fast workflow that can achieve anything.
One side note is Modo. I really like many of the aspects of Modo but over time the cost will be much higher and there is no comparison between Modo and Zbrush for modeling. Modo is a very good modeler but Zbrush really rules the Modeling world. Just to be very clear these are just my feeling about this subject I am sure many people would disagree with me. I hope this was helpful and good luck with your studies

jasonwestmas
04-03-2017, 09:04 PM
If you are a dedicated animator, I don't think you can go wrong with maya. Everything else is debatable. Lightwave is certainly more generalist friendly, meaning you can get into just about everything wtihout too many technical issues. Lightwave's main weakness is not bugs and crashes but rather the lack of interactivity and communication between the tool sets. It's a blessing and curse it seems but certainly powerful for smaller projects where something like Maya over complicates such smaller scope designs and ideas.

toeknee
04-03-2017, 09:43 PM
I do completely agree with Jason. Maya is a much better animation tool. However, I can see that Houdini will grow in this area as well. Personally, my old favorite for animation was Softimage, but unfortunate AD let that die. But since then I feel Maya has surpassed the Softimage animation toolset.

wingzeta
04-03-2017, 11:04 PM
LW is a great all-around tool. Contrary to what some have said, it is great for modeling, and there are a bunch of free plugins that make it better, and if you have a little more to spend LW CAD and 3rd Powers paid plugins make LW modeling amazing. The thing I hate in LW is the lack of "soft select". It has selection falloffs, and several tools that help get similar results to soft select, but it would be so much simpler and easier to just have soft select.

Character animation wise, I'm no expert, but the lightwave guys who are really good usually seem to be using RebelHill's tools and training, or Ryan Roye's techniques involving a system in LW called IK booster. Don't know which is better, but my takeaway from watching their videos etc. Is that LW can be a very good animation tool, if you know what you are doing. Because the documentation is a little weak for character animation, it takes some leg work to get the pro workflow worked out, but it is possible. It would be great if LW3DG put some effort into clarifying best pro practices with their animation tools esp for character. If some of that stuff was more common knowledge, it might help perception, and get more people using the tools.

As far as game engines, you can export the usual formats like fbx. There is an interchange with unity, that as far as I know works. At one point someone made an exporter for cryengine, but I don't think they kept it up to date, which is too bad. In any case, you can model anything, and create your usual texture maps, so it should work fine for any engine.

If you want to break out of the rental model, LW and Zbrush are absolutely worth learning to replace Maya and Mudbox. But, for working with studios you will need to keep your maya knowledge up to date. Everyone uses Zbrush, and it is affordable, so that is a no brainer over mudbox in my opinion.

OlaHaldor
04-03-2017, 11:28 PM
My biggest gripe with LightWave is the modeling bit



Wow, really man?


Yeah, I know. It's an unpopular statement in a LW forum. 8~ It just feels clunky compared to Modo or even Maya in my opinion. Modo, to me, is sort of LW taken to the next level.

erikals
04-04-2017, 01:34 AM
Modeler can be clunky at the more advanced stuff, but much faster at the simple stuff. (overall, imo)

bobakabob
04-04-2017, 02:08 AM
You have transferable skills in 3D, so learning Lightwave will be fast. It's a good tool for freelance commercial work also cheap and not subscription based. If you are into character animation, the new Genoma 2 built in plugin is highly sophisticated and there is a commercial plugin RHiggit for professional Maya style rigs. The modelling toolset is intuitive and there are specialised plugins out there if you need them - 3rd Powers or LWCad. LW also has a superb renderer (PBR on its way) with interactive feedback - Maya imo has only really just caught up here with Arnold. The one thing I really miss and have requested in LW are Maya style autotangents in the Graph Editor, but otherwise all essential spline types are available.

I teach Maya and agree it can be crash prone, no doubt down to its sheer complexity and the rate of change. It's a deep tool for character animation of course. Remarkably, there are things you can do quicker in LW, like swapping meshes on and off rigs with ease without too much hassle with weight maps. Maya's new speedy blendshape workflow has been present in Lightwave for years.

A lot of people gripe about LW as it has always been the underdog of the 3D world. Of course it's not perfect but then it doesn't cost thousands of $$$ to maintain. To see what great artists have been producing in it recently, check out Chris Scalf,
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PoIbyH_oIuM
and Lino Grandi https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VKdsPs2aZPc

jwiede
04-04-2017, 02:19 AM
I cannot recommend LW as a pkg for subdivision surface modeling because of its native CC sub-d implementation's limitations/issues (and lack of OpenSubDiv support). If you don't care about subdivision surface modeling, then it may not matter to you. If you do, you'll want to better understand LW's "situation" in order to make an informed choice.

samurai_x
04-04-2017, 02:28 AM
At the end of the day, they're all polygon data and you must capture reality with as few polys as possible. :D
Your mind is still a sponge. You can handle multiple appz.

OlaHaldor
04-04-2017, 02:28 AM
That's a good point right there. The past year I've been more into this kind of modeling. Doing the model with Catmull-Clark as a base, and then retopo for games. If the model is to be used as CC at render time, I leave it at that.

Edge weights (or crease tool in Maya) is just fantastic in Modo.

Snosrap
04-04-2017, 12:37 PM
Modeler can be clunky at the more advanced stuff, but much faster at the simple stuff. (overall, imo)

Well put. I would completely agree with this statement. Although I own Modo (601) I still use LW for even the more advanced stuff I do - I just like staying in one package and I can't stand the shader tree.:)

Snosrap
04-04-2017, 12:55 PM
so you'd say LW or even Modo is more stable?

I don't have a clue about the robustness of Maya, but a good session of Modo is 20min. long. It's kind of been that way since the beginning and one of the reasons I no longer keep it current. It may have improved in recent but I no longer care. :)

Snosrap
04-04-2017, 01:03 PM
I cannot recommend LW as a pkg for subdivision surface modeling because of its native CC sub-d implementation's limitations/issues (and lack of OpenSubDiv support). If you don't care about subdivision surface modeling, then it may not matter to you. If you do, you'll want to better understand LW's "situation" in order to make an informed choice.

I disagree. Does LW's CC implementation suck? - YES! But there is nothing wrong with regular SubD's and if you need or want N-Gons in your SubD models the CC implementation works just fine - just don't add any edge weighting and perform a mirror function. :)

bazsa73
04-04-2017, 01:15 PM
Worth to change definitely. Maya is an evil app intended to enslave you.

jperk
04-04-2017, 01:21 PM
Anyone here still using older version of PS or have you switched to Adobe's month to month plan via PS CC? These subscriptions are getting out of hand.

shrox
04-04-2017, 01:28 PM
Anyone here still using older version of PS or have you switched to Adobe's month to month plan via PS CC? These subscriptions are getting out of hand.

CS4 PS, Premiere and CS2 Illustrator here.

OlaHaldor
04-04-2017, 01:31 PM
Anyone here still using older version of PS or have you switched to Adobe's month to month plan via PS CC? These subscriptions are getting out of hand.

I wouldn't be able to work with clients when I do freelance projects unless I was on their Adobe CC subscription. Easy as that.
Those who can get away with the pre subscription license, good! Unfortunately some of us can't. But I'm not complaining though.

jperk
04-04-2017, 01:39 PM
Wondering if CS3 PS license/serial still works through Adobe.

Also, I did not previously know that Newtek offers full commercial upgrades for the educational versions of Lightwave. They informed me via email. That is a very nice gesture. I think Autodesk forbids the transfer of created content from student verison to commercial version of Maya.

gerry_g
04-04-2017, 04:03 PM
I know CS6 still works and is licensable, what astounds me is that the original installers are all on my Adobe account page along with the license codes and are freely downloadable on login, the Mac version of CS6 requires a legacy Java module to be installed to keep running though

shrox
04-04-2017, 05:41 PM
It still works, just click and accept the previous version warning.

GraphXs
04-04-2017, 06:52 PM
Lw is well rounded. I use it with Unity every day and it works great! The only thing missing is smoothing groups. Though i have a hack work around for static meshes.

Modeler is great simple and fast for game meshes. It does also have alot of plugins to help make it a well rounded app

Animations is overall really easy in layout. Sure CA animation setup is not always a walk in the park, but even the native tools like Genoma will get ya up and running quickly. And if ya can purchase Rigghit...you are in for a CA rigging treat!

Things that might annoy you will be Navagation, the undo system in layout, and not the direct axis of modeling with gizmos. Though I love having the center of edits being mouse postion!

Heck one thing you will love is the price and that the LW3DG takes there time with updates! No yearly subscription to pay for!

If you get a couple of freelance gigs...it pays for lightwave easy!

Schwyhart
04-04-2017, 08:06 PM
My work recently switched us to Affinity Photo/Designer. I couldn't be happier.

jperk
04-04-2017, 10:29 PM
A part of me wants to go for LW over Modo...but I think I can only afford LW educational version for $195 or maybe even Modo Indie 10 for $299.

Unless someone can sell me a commercial LW license/ software. Newtek charges $100 for transfers.

On a budget right now, broke student. No job and I graduate FALL 2017. Time to look for interships! Everyone wants Maya and 3Ds Max experience...sometimes I see Cinema4D.

OlaHaldor
04-04-2017, 11:05 PM
There's still the Foundry graduate license. ;)

jperk
04-05-2017, 02:18 PM
There's still the Foundry graduate license. ;)

True. But their offers confuse me. There is a bundle that is $250 and another that is $195, both discounts are for graduates only. However, I'm not sure if this is a 12 month limited license only or a license that does not expire.

Here is what The Foundry says about the bundles:

The Production Collective includes Nuke Studio, Modo and Mari, offering digital 3D modeling, animation, paint, effects, playback, editorial and shot management in a single license. Creation Collective comprises Modo, Mari, and Hieroplayer, offering digital 3D visualization, modeling, animation, painting, playback, and integration in a single license.

If these licenses don't expire I might look into them. Just don't want to spend couple hundred on software for it to get nodelocked after a year or so.

Also they state the following in a email:



Other information that may be of interest: We offer an upgrade from an annual student or graduate license to a permanent commercial license. The upgrade cost is the annual commercial maintenance fee:

- Production COLLECTIVE commercial upgrade (Nuke Studio, Mari and Modo) upgrade cost is Ģ1,260 / $2,079 / €1,512 – a saving of Ģ4,800 / $7,920 / €5,760
- Creation COLLECTIVE commercial upgrade (Modo, Mari & HieroPlayer) upgrade cost is Ģ357/ $573 / €431 – a saving of Ģ1,210/ $1,935/ €1,592

The upgrade to commercial fee is for a full permanent license with one year of maintenance. The upgrade must be purchased within 6 months of the annual license expiring and the license is nodelocked.

Is this graduate discount version even for commercial use? The "full permanent license" statement sounds as if the graduate discount version might expire after a certain given time.

MichaelT
04-05-2017, 03:29 PM
Hmmm.. Maya is pretty much the biggest door to jobs around. So I'd keep my knowledge up to date there if possible. Maya LT is an option if you don't need that much from the full Maya. I only bring that up because it is a way to keep much of the workflow in your head at an acceptable cost. My point is.. don't switch. But do 'extend' to more 3D tools if you can. I like LW because I find myself doing things faster in it. And the permanent license model is important to me as well. But it is just my very personal opinion. I have more tools myself.. but again. Don't drop Maya if you plan on making a living in the 3D world. You'll have more opportunities available to you with that tool in your belt.

shrox
04-05-2017, 03:32 PM
A part of me wants to go for LW over Modo...but I think I can only afford LW educational version for $195 or maybe even Modo Indie 10 for $299.

Unless someone can sell me a commercial LW license/ software. Newtek charges $100 for transfers.

On a budget right now, broke student. No job and I graduate FALL 2017. Time to look for interships! Everyone wants Maya and 3Ds Max experience...sometimes I see Cinema4D.

Do you have PayPal? I can kick in $25, maybe others can too.

MichaelT
04-05-2017, 03:38 PM
True. But their offers confuse me. There is a bundle that is $250 and another that is $195, both discounts are for graduates only. However, I'm not sure if this is a 12 month limited license only or a license that does not expire.
Here is what The Foundry says about the bundles:

If these licenses don't expire I might look into them. Just don't want to spend couple hundred on software for it to get nodelocked after a year or so.

Also they state the following in a email:

Is this graduate discount version even for commercial use? The "full permanent license" statement sounds as if the graduate discount version might expire after a certain given time.

If you just want to learn and use Mari & Nuke personally (and don't plan on using them to make money. Note that ad revenue .. like from YouTube.. isn't considered commercial use by The Foundry) it is actually free, and you don't need to buy a license at all.
Afaik, only Modo is offering a permanent license. Just like Lightwave does.

MichaelT
04-05-2017, 03:43 PM
A part of me wants to go for LW over Modo...but I think I can only afford LW educational version for $195 or maybe even Modo Indie 10 for $299.

Unless someone can sell me a commercial LW license/ software. Newtek charges $100 for transfers.

On a budget right now, broke student. No job and I graduate FALL 2017. Time to look for interships! Everyone wants Maya and 3Ds Max experience...sometimes I see Cinema4D.

;) Yeah. I know how that is. Tip.. setup a Patreon. And put up some of your work there. Doesn't hurt.. and you might find yourself with a little income as well.

jperk
04-05-2017, 04:41 PM
Do you have PayPal? I can kick in $25, maybe others can too.

I do have a paypal. Maybe I should start a gofundme, "Broke college graduate in need of Lightwave 3D." :D

Surrealist.
04-06-2017, 09:04 AM
Case in point. Ligjtwave should be and should have always been free to students. Problem solved. By the way from the nature of some of your questions, I take it you have not yet given the trial a go yet. In any case. This is the best way to learn what you will be able to do and not dp with LW. After the trial ends there will be discovery mode

Aptly named.

If have any other advice it would be to not consider any oNe software to replace another. But rather look at your choices as an ever-extending pallete.

Learn as much as you can. It is simply not the case that one software can do it all. LW should be in your toolset along with all others.

Exclaim
04-06-2017, 10:25 AM
Was required to consider a production pipeline as part of my university assignment, and it is amazing what Lightwave can do. But choosing software is kind of the TD/Producer's job. The artist just needs to be able to produce the assets. Try Lightwave for yourself. If you like it, purchase it for yourself. The skills needed to make good work in Lightwave will transfer over to other programs. I imagine there are many artist who use Autodesk products, The Foundry products or Newtek products at work, but use other programs at home or for personal production. There probably are quite a few artist who use software at work which, they cant bring home.

Cageman
04-07-2017, 12:52 PM
If have any other advice it would be to not consider any oNe software to replace another. But rather look at your choices as an ever-extending pallete.

Learn as much as you can. It is simply not the case that one software can do it all. LW should be in your toolset along with all others.

This!

Where I work, we have Houdini, Maya, Motionbuilder, 3DS Max, Modo and LightWave. "Switching" from one app to another will just limit your flexibility. There is no "perfect" software. That said, LightWave has a fantastic render engine and the Octane implementation is probably one of the best that I've seen. Personally I have experience with Maya (rigging / animation / lighting / shading / rendering), LightWave (rigging / animation / lighting / shading / rendering / dynamics) and Motionbuilder (Mocap / Animation). I do not do any modeling at all.

Depending on what you want to do, any of the apps I know can do certain things more efficient with high quality (LW rigging and animation I mostly use for really fast mocups, then do the real rig in Maya for the animators to use). Lighting and Shading is, hands down, a lot quicker in LW compared to Maya, and with plugins like Janus and exrTrader, it can really rival Mayas renderpass system.

But, as some others have said, I would probably hold on to the money, right now, and wait for LW Next. Reading between the lines, the new render engine seems to be based around PBR, which then puts it into the same category as Arnold and Octane... if it can output similar results as Arnold, then it would be a nobrainer update. One Arnold license is currently higher than a single license of LW, and with one copy of LW, you get 999 free rendernodes to use on a renderfarm.

It is going to be very interesting to see where the new Renderengine goes and how well it performs.

As a last little point... LightWave is the only tool that I own a private license of because it is a nobrainer regarding the pricepoint and what I can do well with it in the field of 3D.

samurai_x
04-08-2017, 07:41 AM
Worth to change definitely. Maya is an evil app intended to enslave you.

If only studios think the same way we would not be dealing with this monopoly :dance:

jasonwestmas
04-08-2017, 08:37 AM
I'm in the "don't limit your software choices" camp. . . only decide which software helps you with your particular creative facets the most efficient way possible while achieving your artistic goals.

Surrealist.
04-08-2017, 12:42 PM
I have been working freelance for a number of years. And I have found that even though I had the freedom to use whatever app I choose to use, in reality I found I needed to gravitate towards apps that were optimized for certain things. Which is the other side of that coin, because I had the freedom to choose. There have been cases where I have persuaded clients who came to me with a Blender pipeline to allow me to use Maya/Motionbuilder. At the same time clients who were on a Maya pipeline I got them to allow me to model in Blender and export to Maya and deliver there. The reality in many cases is you have to be willing to deliver in whatever app the client works in.

And on that note, many times the delivery is in a game engine. And knowing your way around game engines these days is a requirement for a lot of asset creation gigs. Unity and Unreal 4 being the most common. You don't have to be able to design game logic. But knowing your way around the material and animation pipelines is a plus in some cases and also a requirement in others.

And LightWave too. I occasionally have to deliver in LW. So my background in this app is valuable.

So delivery is a huge consideration.

So by keeping your options open, you increase your worth as an artist. Not a good - or even viable option - to paint yourself in a corner.

I am contracting on site now at fairly large company. I am in the simulation department where they have a pipeline centered around Blender for export in a format to a proprietary game/simulation/VR system.

Over in the marketing department they use Maya/Vray for modeling animation and high quality renders. Because of my background in Maya, I am able to interface with these guys easily to get assets I can use to convert to game-friendly versions for our simulator. A huge cost saver for my department. Of course I could bother them to export everything to fbx. But that could equate to hours of their valuable time. So I simply get the assets in Maya and take it from there.

Interesting sidebar. One of the Maya Generalists who I deal with is a LightWave guy, working in this company using Maya/Vray ;)

(a requirement handed down from the marketing team)

So the point of the story is there a lot of practical reasons to keep your choices open.

jwiede
04-08-2017, 06:40 PM
JPerk: Frankly, given your lack of practical work experience in 3D, I don't believe you're doing your employability any favors by focusing on anything other than getting your Maya skills as "sellable" as possible. It really sounds like you need to focus on accumulating practical work experience, and like it or not, when it comes to "getting in the door", that's mostly about convincing employers you have the exact skills they're demanding. As a "college hire", employers simply aren't going to be as "flexible" considering your skills as they would be with candidates possessing practical work experience histories.

Once you've gathered a few years of practical work experience, things will be different. Employers will care more about your overall work experience, and will be more "flexible" about transferability of skills from other applications, and so forth. You'll also be in a much better position to "sell yourself" for self-employment scenarios like freelancing. You'll have a work history, industry contacts, and a portfolio of actual work projects to indicate your strengths. Eventually, employers' (and customers') evaluations will be based primarily on those elements, and you'll have much greater flexibility in how you work, and what apps you use.

My point is: Focus on the skills most likely to garner you practical work experience in your job market. If that's Maya, focus on Maya (and in your case, it sounds like it is). If that's Houdini, focus on Houdini. If that's Lightwave, focus on Lightwave. Being able to work and produce fast and efficiently on task for whatever app they consider a primary requirement is your best chance of getting their attention, and getting hired.

erikals
04-08-2017, 09:33 PM
My point is: Focus on the skills most likely to garner you practical work experience in your job market. If that's Maya, focus on Maya (and in your case, it sounds like it is). If that's Houdini, focus on Houdini. If that's Lightwave, focus on Lightwave. Being able to work and produce fast and efficiently on task for whatever app they consider a primary requirement is your best chance of getting their attention, and getting hired.
ditto this.

samurai_x
04-08-2017, 10:08 PM
I'm in the "don't limit your software choices" camp. . . only decide which software helps you with your particular creative facets the most efficient way possible while achieving your artistic goals.


I'm in the can't afford all tools that comes out camp but would still not use cracks.
Thankful that there are tools like 3dcoat, zbrush, modo indie, lightwave that are sub 1k with plugins that don't cost as much as the main app.

jasonwestmas
04-09-2017, 11:36 AM
I'm in the can't afford all tools that comes out camp but would still not use cracks.
Thankful that there are tools like 3dcoat, zbrush, modo indie, lightwave that are sub 1k with plugins that don't cost as much as the main app.

As a side note. . .There are trial and sometimes commercial free copies available. Obv. one doesn't need to buy a license to uncover the potential in most applications. And this is in context with how you work (various needs for controlling a certain aspect in an animation or stacking system) and what kinds of things you are working with.

bobakabob
04-09-2017, 02:39 PM
Good advice from Surrealist to keep your skills honed in Maya if you're after work in a studio. Otherwise, you have transferable skills and keep this in mind as you can't produce commercial work in Maya educational.

As others have said, considering Lightwave's price point it's well worth considering investing in it for professional commercial freelance work. Combine with Amateur 3D Coat if Zbrush is too costly.

C4D is way too expensive for what it is, you might as well invest in full cost industry standard, Maya which not only has first rate CA tools and Arnold but advanced motion graphics tools. But Maya Lite aside, Autodesk don't seem that interested in freelancers and small studios.

jasonwestmas
04-09-2017, 04:01 PM
Good advice from Surrealist to keep your skills honed in Maya if you're after work in a studio. Otherwise, you have transferable skills and keep this in mind as you can't produce commercial work in Maya educational.

As others have said, considering Lightwave's price point it's well worth considering investing in it for professional commercial freelance work. Combine with Amateur 3D Coat if Zbrush is too costly.

C4D is way too expensive for what it is, you might as well invest in full cost industry standard, Maya which not only has first rate CA tools and Arnold but advanced motion graphics tools. But Maya Lite aside, Autodesk don't seem that interested in freelancers and small studios.

I think AD is interested in the entire 3D graphics realm. :)

jperk
04-09-2017, 05:27 PM
Thanks for the comments every one. Also, when I say "switch" I don't mean I'll give up on Maya completely. However, for personal/freelance use it would be nice to steer away from the student version and even the subscription based Maya LT, which doesn't even include rendering. No way can I afford the main version at the monthly costs.

Also, I've been rigging my character, and Maya can be so finicky at times! Like weight painting for instance, I would remove influence on one joint, move on to the next joint, remove that influence, and then go back to the previous for more influence to reappear! I was finally able to get it to stop doing that through trial and error and I'm not even sure how I did that. However, once Maya works it works okay, but still I can't stand working in Maya because I'm constantly on the edge of my seat hoping nothing goes wrong or crashes.

Anyway, the rig I'm doing for my school assignment isn't very great, so I used the auto rig feature in Maya to pose my character for this render.

136505

How is weight painting/ rigging in Lightwave? Weaker or stronger than Maya? Or mixed? Also, is there a auto rig in Lightwave or a plugin similar to the auto rig/ Human IK in Maya?

jwiede
04-09-2017, 05:46 PM
How is weight painting/ rigging in Lightwave? Weaker or stronger than Maya?

LW is substantially weaker in terms of rigging. LW has an auto-rig (Genoma), but HumanIK in Maya offers a lot more functionality overall (for humanoid rigs, anyway). Maya is a much stronger package than LW in general regarding CA workflow efficiency, performance, you name it.

As for weight painting, LW's native weight-painting story is definitely "weaker" than Maya's w.r.t. efficiency -- weight painting occurs in Modeler, while rigging/animating occurs in Layout, requiring app switching which harms workflow efficiency. You can, however, purchase a commercial plugin (3rdPowers' Paint Weights (http://www.3rdpowers.com/index_store.html)) that provides very good weight painting capability in LW Layout.

Dodgy
04-09-2017, 09:47 PM
Also worth noting is LW has a variety of ways of having bones affect a mesh, which don't necessarily require weight painting. My He-man character doesn't have any painted weight maps at all. You can just use a falloff, or capsule limits, or have multiple bones limited by one weight map (like the left leg bones all use "Leftleg_Weightmap" and right leg bones all use "Rightleg_Weightmap"), so there's no cross influence. It's a very flexible system.

jperk
04-10-2017, 12:17 AM
Also worth noting is LW has a variety of ways of having bones affect a mesh, which don't necessarily require weight painting. My He-man character doesn't have any painted weight maps at all. You can just use a falloff, or capsule limits, or have multiple bones limited by one weight map (like the left leg bones all use "Leftleg_Weightmap" and right leg bones all use "Rightleg_Weightmap"), so there's no cross influence. It's a very flexible system.

Awesome model! Very skilled. Though I used Mixamo's character rig software. Honestly, manual rigging is a *****...I'd honestly rather use 3rd party plugins or HumanIK/ auto rigs. Though I've learned a lot doing manual rigging. It's just I don't think I'll be using my manual rig in the future..just doing it for assignment. Here is another character I'm working on in Maya and I did some touch ups in Clip Paint Studio Pro (can't afford PS right now ).

136511

Another question, can I import my Maya models/ rigs into LW even from the student version?

Dodgy
04-10-2017, 02:28 AM
Thanks!

If you can export FBX you can at least get some of the stuff through, but rigging is very much a per program thing and you can't expect it all to come through.

If you're not a big fan of rigging yourself, there are some great rigs out there to use like this one:

http://www.rebelhill.net/

bobakabob
04-10-2017, 05:09 AM
Also worth noting is LW has a variety of ways of having bones affect a mesh, which don't necessarily require weight painting. My He-man character doesn't have any painted weight maps at all. You can just use a falloff, or capsule limits, or have multiple bones limited by one weight map (like the left leg bones all use "Leftleg_Weightmap" and right leg bones all use "Rightleg_Weightmap"), so there's no cross influence. It's a very flexible system.

Lightwave's skin binding / weights system is underrated - in many cases just minimal weights will do and you can get away with none at all in some cases. It's easy to take this flexibility for granted until you encounter other apps. 3rd Powers have added the capacity to paint weights in Layout - a commercial extra but well worth it if you need to fine tune to this degree.

Of course Maya is perceived as the industry standard in CA. The deformations are smooth, weight painting is intuitive and the autotangents in the graph editor allow you to block out animation smoothly e.g. Avoiding footsliding; creating naturalistic movements. I really hope the latter feature comes to LW as it's simple but powerful.

So yes, Maya's system is deep and sophisticated, but so it should be at those $ubs. LW may be the underdog but it's very capable in CA. Genoma 2 is a step forward in workflow. There are even workflow advantages to LW e.g swapping characters on and off rigs is just one mouse click, unlike Maya (where there are likely to be weights issues you need to resolve). You can also add morphs / blend shapes say for facial expressions on the fly as you animate. There's great work out there which shows what you can do (with added talent :) )
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/blackholes/black-holes-0?token=dd2fb184

erikals
04-10-2017, 05:50 AM
Maya... ...Avoiding footsliding
doesn't the same principle apply to LightWave?
there are also LW plugins that do this as far as i know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca6bPTvV8C8

also see RebelHill >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHdU9SYS7_U

other plugins >
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?122175-Switching-between-stepped-and-tcb

chikega
04-10-2017, 11:42 AM
Also of note, if you're only rigging bipeds, then Rhiggit Lite is all you need for about $18.62 USD ($15 British Pounds). I personally prefer to rig in Layout using Rhiggit as I don't really care for rigging in Genoma in Modeler and going back and forth from Modeler to Layout.

jperk
04-10-2017, 01:35 PM
Thanks everyone. This thread is full of good resources. Especially if I were to plan to migrate to the LW realm of 3D.

Also, I was not able to get foot sliding off my walk cycle in Maya. Maybe should work on that more. However, I'm aware Maya is quite superior in Character Animation. Again, just dislike the instability. For instance, if paid versions of Maya LT or full Maya run like this I'd honestly rather not give Autodesk money. We'll see. Unless Autodesk does something drastic w/ Maya LT and the pricing.

Surrealist.
04-12-2017, 12:51 AM
Also, I've been rigging my character, and Maya can be so finicky at times! Like weight painting for instance, I would remove influence on one joint, move on to the next joint, remove that influence, and then go back to the previous for more influence to reappear! I was finally able to get it to stop doing that through trial and error and I'm not even sure how I did that. However, once Maya works it works okay, but still I can't stand working in Maya because I'm constantly on the edge of my seat hoping nothing goes wrong or crashes.

The main advice I can give here is that if you are having as much trouble here, you will carry that with you. The mind set you have to develop is to solve the issues in front of you. The solution to your Maya issues are best solved going to the Maya support forums and those that are not user error report as bugs. In my experience you can't half-do software. You gotta go for it all the way.

And it is hard to answer questions in a general way. But from your description your weight painting issue could be solved as easy as switching Weight Normalization from Interactive to Post in the Paint Skin Weights tool panel.

To win at the software game you have to swim though a sea of instability issues, bugs, and user error to eventually arrive at point of confidence. You are not there yet. If you are sitting on pins and needles with an app you have not mastered it. Mastering it includes learning the skills, the workarounds, the tried and true techniques etc. All software is this way I am afraid.

Keep banging away at Maya, taking up each issue you can not solve by going to the forums, searching google etc. And eventually if nothing more can be done, report a bug and make note of it and then find a workaround.

Attack LightWave and all other software the same way.

The only way to win in my experience, and thus, opinion.

Surrealist.
04-12-2017, 12:57 AM
Thanks everyone. This thread is full of good resources. Especially if I were to plan to migrate to the LW realm of 3D.

Also, I was not able to get foot sliding off my walk cycle in Maya. Maybe should work on that more. However, I'm aware Maya is quite superior in Character Animation. Again, just dislike the instability. For instance, if paid versions of Maya LT or full Maya run like this I'd honestly rather not give Autodesk money. We'll see. Unless Autodesk does something drastic w/ Maya LT and the pricing.

This is animation 101. Your animation technique. Assuming you are keyframing the walk cycle correctly, then check that your Z direction curves are linear on the foot during the frames that it slides. If they are linear and it still slides, then you are not keyframing right. Check a tutorial.

jperk
04-12-2017, 07:24 PM
This is my latest arnold render w/ Maya. I am hoping I can use this model in Lightwave despite it being made w/ student version of Maya. I am going to download LW demo soon and model, texture, rig, and maybe animate something. I like arnold way better than Mental Ray..it reminds me of Blender's Cycles.

136528

^This jester likes big balls. :jester: :D

Farhad_azer
04-13-2017, 01:29 AM
Sorry about answering without reading the entire thread but LW has also very unique and really amazing tools regarding CA which Maya or other packs did not have in their older versions (not sure about current versions) and one of the is Ik Booster and if it has mentioned before then skip reading. It is a game changer IMHO and unfortunately it is not very well documented but Ryan Roy has a very good and relatively asvanced tutorial.
To me also LW is amazing for modeling and i will choose it over maya or max anytime.
The most important aspect of LW is the community behide it.
Since there are endless discussions about comparing packages then i wanted to emphasize again that these are my personal thoughts and i respectfully refuse to debate.
Hope this helps.

erikals
04-13-2017, 03:21 AM
what i really like is the IKBooster Controllers, i never understood why other apps didn't add similar.
a few years ago i noticed Pixar's animation program Presto had something quite close to it.
BoosterController > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqOn-LIBI94

djwaterman
04-13-2017, 05:46 AM
You need to start looking into color and be more respectful of the palette, some of those images hurt my eye, this is actually something all artists need to be aware of and is often overlooked in the world of budding 3D enthusiasts. Please don't think I'm being a smart arse, I'm being genuine here.

jperk
04-13-2017, 05:20 PM
You need to start looking into color and be more respectful of the palette, some of those images hurt my eye, this is actually something all artists need to be aware of and is often overlooked in the world of budding 3D enthusiasts. Please don't think I'm being a smart arse, I'm being genuine here.

Thank you for that suggestion. Not the original renders , but retouched a bit in photo editors.

jperk
04-15-2017, 11:47 AM
Also, I found a good deal on a used license of Lightwave 8.5 w/ tons of books/ tutorials. Is this worth buying and is it compatible w/ Windows 10?

prometheus
04-15-2017, 12:46 PM
Also, I found a good deal on a used license of Lightwave 8.5 w/ tons of books/ tutorials. Is this worth buying and is it compatible w/ Windows 10?

I think there is so much new stuff and so much that differs between lw 8.5 to 2015 that you eventually find yourself in a corner saying,, ah..I need lw 10, or 11 or 2015 for that, so eventually you will reach the boundaries and want to upgrade.
The first thing you need to do ..that is to try the 2015 full demo trial, and keep testing it after 30 days in discovery edition.

jperk
04-15-2017, 12:49 PM
Oh I def plan on upgrading to recent LW but I'd want a cheaper path to do that. I think buying older versions, paying Newtek $100 for transfer, and then upgrading might be cheapest. Or I could just buy LW educational from Newtek and upgrade to commercial version. Haven't done the math yet.

Also, anyone think this website is legit?
http://ealrrccbbuohpjwl.depotapps.com/product/newtek-lightwave-3d-9/

TheLexx
04-15-2017, 01:10 PM
@ jperk, I don't know about that website, but this thread (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?153193-REDUCED-Lightwave-3D-2015-3-Commercial-License-for-Sale-480)(providing the seller is good) seems a pretty good deal.

jperk
04-15-2017, 01:15 PM
That's a very good deal and I've spoken w/ the seller. However, I can only pay in fragments at the time. Which is why I am considering LW 8.5 option, then transferring license via $100 fee, and later upgrading to newest LW verison.

Also, I can afford LW academic via Newtek's store for $195. Newtek said they offer upgrades to the commercial version at the same price commercial owners would have to pay, which is currently $395. Not bad.

TheLexx
04-15-2017, 02:51 PM
Deleted.

jperk
04-15-2017, 02:56 PM
deleted

TheLexx
04-15-2017, 02:59 PM
Good stuff, let's delete our posts (wink).

jperk
04-15-2017, 03:02 PM
done ;)

You think the tutorials/ books are still relevant for newer LW versions?

ernpchan
04-15-2017, 03:22 PM
done ;)

You think the tutorials/ books are still relevant for newer LW versions?

They should be. Modeling hasn't changed though there are newer tools. Basics of modeling are the same. IK, motion modifier and constraints are different. But basics of animation and techniques are pretty much unchanged.

TheLexx
04-15-2017, 04:21 PM
The only reason I hesitate is because others are more experienced to say, but I suspect so. If you need any additions, specific LW 8 books from Dan Ablan and others on Amazon tend to be quite cheap in used condition. I think problems arise more if you were to buy a tutorial ahead of your LW version, for example, I think nodes came in LW 9 onwards.

jperk
04-15-2017, 04:43 PM
The only reason I hesitate is because others are more experienced to say, but I suspect so. If you need any additions, specific LW 8 books from Dan Ablan and others on Amazon tend to be quite cheap in used condition. I think problems arise more if you were to buy a tutorial ahead of your LW version, for example, I think nodes came in LW 9 onwards.

Are you familiar w/ version 8.5? Do you know if it includes FBX support, weight painting, UV texturing, etc? How different is this version from 2015 besides like IK / constraints / etc.

Snosrap
04-15-2017, 05:38 PM
If you qualify definitely go the educational route. $195 and you get 2015 right now without messing around.

jperk
04-15-2017, 07:00 PM
^ Maybe would be better to do that. But given that the LW8.5 copy is commercial version and at fair price it's very tempting. Is LW8.5 even more outdated than say the current version of Blender?

samurai_x
04-15-2017, 07:23 PM
Also, I found a good deal on a used license of Lightwave 8.5 w/ tons of books/ tutorials. Is this worth buying and is it compatible w/ Windows 10?

For how much? $200 max is probably right.
Afair there's a nasty bug with lightwave 9.6 and below if you use windows 7 and up. Not sure with windows 10. It could be Aeroglass that causes it.
The tab menu will freeze when you browse through them and lightwave will crash.

jperk
04-15-2017, 07:36 PM
For how much? $200 max is probably right.
Afair there's a nasty bug with lightwave 9.6 and below if you use windows 7 and up. Not sure with windows 10. It could be Aeroglass that causes it.
The tab menu will freeze when you browse through them and lightwave will crash.

Around $50 for version 8.5 commercial. Plus, $100 transfer fee to Newtek. Then upgrade to newest LW for $395-$495 down the road.

Or I'm thinking about just getting Lightwave 2015 educational for $195 via Newtek's store, then later upgrade to full commercial for $395-$495.

Only reason I'm leaning for 8.5 version is because its the commercial version. But I'm not sure how stable it is on Win10 and the bug you mentioned is something I'd fear if I go this route.

ernpchan
04-15-2017, 08:49 PM
I'd say just go the educational version. I think it'll be awhile before you'll need the commercial version since you're learning the program. Spend the time learning and getting better. Make a short or do fx shots by shooting love action footage with your phone/camera. Just focus on learning. Once you get a job or your first freelance job then you can upgrade to the commercial license.

Snosrap
04-15-2017, 09:49 PM
Commercial/Educational - it's the same app. Your first job will pay for the commercial upgrade. 8.5 is too old to mess with. Node nodes, no VPR and a lot of other stuff. It's not as if NT will actually know if you are using an educational license for commercial purposes - unless you come here and show it off. :) Do you actually think they have LW police? :) They are relying on good faith! I admire them for that. I also admire their overall licensing policy - when everybody else is going rental they are still dedicated to a perpetual license model.

jperk
04-15-2017, 10:07 PM
Commercial/Educational - it's the same app. Your first job will pay for the commercial upgrade. 8.5 is too old to mess with. Node nodes, no VPR and a lot of other stuff. It's not as if NT will actually know if you are using an educational license for commercial purposes - unless you come here and show it off. :) Do you actually think they have LW police? :) They are relying on good faith! I admire them for that. I also admire their overall licensing policy - when everybody else is going rental they are still dedicated to a perpetual license model.

Yes, I think I am going to do away w/ buying used 8.5 copy. I downloaded the LW2015 trial. So far, not big on the navigation within viewport. So used to Maya shortcuts like holding alt to rotate scene, middle mouse to zoom, or shift hold to pan the scene. Even Blender is has a somewhat easier viewport navigation (shift to pan, hold middle mouse to rotate , middle mouse scroll to zoom, etc). Not cutting down on LW, but holding down alt to rotate/orbit doesn't feel as natural as Maya or Blender. Holding CTRL/ ALT to zoom feels awkward as well.

Also, I heard Modo is more similar to Maya in terms of shortcuts, etc. Tried downloading the demo, but the download link was broken/temporarily down.

jwiede
04-15-2017, 10:13 PM
Are you familiar w/ version 8.5? Do you know if it includes FBX support, weight painting, UV texturing, etc? How different is this version from 2015 besides like IK / constraints / etc.

You'll discover 8.5 is missing a _lot_ of what exists in modern LW: Node support (surfacing and otherwise), Valkyrie (native FBX & Collada import/export), FibreFX, and CA joint support were all added during V9.x product cycle. VPR, color correction, Bullet RBD/SBD, Genoma, and native instancing were all added after v9.x.

If you've decided to go with Lightwave, then I think you'd be much better off buying the "current" educational version, and then upgrading to the commercial version. I think you'll find v8.5 much more "lacking" than you expect.

Snosrap
04-15-2017, 10:41 PM
Yes, I think I am going to do away w/ buying used 8.5 copy. I downloaded the LW2015 trial. So far, not big on the navigation within viewport. So used to Maya shortcuts like holding alt to rotate scene, middle mouse to zoom, or shift hold to pan the scene. Even Blender is has a somewhat easier viewport navigation (shift to pan, hold middle mouse to rotate , middle mouse scroll to zoom, etc). Not cutting down on LW, but holding down alt to rotate/orbit doesn't feel as natural as Maya or Blender. Holding CTRL/ ALT to zoom feels awkward as well.

Also, I heard Modo is more similar to Maya in terms of shortcuts, etc. Tried downloading the demo, but the download link was broken/temporarily down.

Yep - To me viewport navigation is the single most important aspect of a 3D application. It's how you interact with your creation and nothing is as important as that. :) Thankfully for me Modo is exactly like LW in that regard, but yes there are options for Maya, 3DS Max, Cinema 4D and few others within Modo. I recently bought Marvelous Designer and did my best to make the viewport navigation operate like LW. :) Did the same with 3D Coat. So yeah - I get it. It's a deal breaker for me.

jperk
04-15-2017, 10:53 PM
Yep - To me viewport navigation is the single most important aspect of a 3D application. It's how you interact with your creation and nothing is as important as that. :) Thankfully for me Modo is exactly like LW in that regard, but yes there are options for Maya, 3DS Max, Cinema 4D and few others within Modo. I recently bought Marvelous Designer and did my best to make the viewport navigation operate like LW. :) Did the same with 3D Coat. So yeah - I get it. It's a deal breaker for me.

How do you deal with the alt key to orbit/ rotate? It feels off and not as precise as say Blender and Maya. I mention those programs because they are the only two I've used.

samurai_x
04-16-2017, 01:13 AM
I can post my autohotkey overide to make lw more maya and modo friendly in terms of navigation and subobject mode.
You need to install autohotkey though.

MichaelT
04-16-2017, 03:49 AM
Word of advice regarding Autohotkey.. if you play games on Steam, some *claim* to have been vac banned while using it. Although Valve themselves say that Autohotkey isn't a cause for VAC bans, there still are people who say they have been. Don't know if that is because they use some script that caused them to be flagged. But still, thought I'd mention it just in case. Since VAC bans are forever. I have little doubt that those who have been flagged, were up to no good anyway :)

Dodgy
04-16-2017, 07:40 AM
I can post my autohotkey overide to make lw more maya and modo friendly in terms of navigation and subobject mode.
You need to install autohotkey though.

https://autohotkey.com/
Download autohotkey and then use this .ini file. It's not quite Maya, but it's a lot easier than LW.
Alt-MMB=pan
Alt-RMB= Pan in Y
Alt-LMB=Rotate
Alt-wheel=Zoom.

136558

jperk
04-16-2017, 09:32 AM
^ thanks where to I place the file?

EDIT: Okay I think I got it. Seems a little better. But the wheel still doesnt zoom in/ out.

And why does "T" shortcut go crazy when I try to drag a point, edge, or polygon? It feels like someone or something else is fighting over where I want to move/drag the selected area to.

Also, when I extrude/ bevel faces, why do I have to flip face w/ "f" key to stop the transparent /reversed face on new geometry?

And another dilemma, I can't import my maya models as FBX into LW. I get "unknown" errors. I cant only import the model as obj and I'm not able to load the UV map properly. However, I just figured out how to load up my texture maps on obj . Shame I can't get FBX file in from Maya.

Marander
04-16-2017, 03:02 PM
^ thanks where to I place the file?

EDIT: Okay I think I got it. Seems a little better. But the wheel still doesnt zoom in/ out.

And why does "T" shortcut go crazy when I try to drag a point, edge, or polygon? It feels like someone or something else is fighting over where I want to move/drag the selected area to.

Also, when I extrude/ bevel faces, why do I have to flip face w/ "f" key to stop the transparent /reversed face on new geometry?

And another dilemma, I can't import my maya models as FBX into LW. I get "unknown" errors. I cant only import the model as obj and I'm not able to load the UV map properly. However, I just figured out how to load up my texture maps on obj . Shame I can't get FBX file in from Maya.

Dragging points or using shortcut T works fine for me. On some computers / laptops you have to activate the tablet support (display options, shortcut D), but this is more the case for moving around in your scene. As you noticed, viewport navigation is not ideal in LW compared to other 3D applications and there are no presets for Maya style etc.

Yeah, extruding, beveling, rounding etc. is a pain in LW in my opinion. There are countless tools that do almost the same thing but none of them is good. And the flip face seems only to be a LW thing.

Maybe you have to choose an older FBX format in the Maya export options. FBX 2012 import works fine for me. LW Next will support new FBX formats.

jperk
04-16-2017, 03:33 PM
Dragging points or using shortcut T works fine for me. On some computers / laptops you have to activate the tablet support (display options, shortcut D), but this is more the case for moving around in your scene. As you noticed, viewport navigation is not ideal in LW compared to other 3D applications and there are no presets for Maya style etc.

Yeah, extruding, beveling, rounding etc. is a pain in LW in my opinion. There are countless tools that do almost the same thing but none of them is good. And the flip face seems only to be a LW thing.

Maybe you have to choose an older FBX format in the Maya export options. FBX 2012 import works fine for me. LW Next will support new FBX formats.

Thanks. Changing from mouse to tablet seems to have fixed that problem. Still very odd though.

Also, changing to older FBX did work. Thanks again. :)

Lastly, it's a bummer the flip faces is normal in LW. However, I'm glad I'm catching on to these interface differences before I do a tutorial. Not much LW video tutorials I can find..but this one looks pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsF8j_hRMqY .

I might follow a Maya tutorial, but I kind of want to watch someone else use LW and mimic so I can get the hang of the interface more.

On a positive note, LW does seem to be lighter than Maya. Almost like Blender. Also, it is rather easy to get around and find things (for the most part). The text based icons really helps as opposed to icons.

After I guess I'll decide whether or not LW is worth the investment, otherwise will probably pick up on Blender more.

Marander
04-16-2017, 03:59 PM
Thanks. Changing from mouse to tablet seems to have fixed that problem. Still very odd though.

Also, changing to older FBX did work. Thanks again. :)

Lastly, it's a bummer the flip faces is normal in LW. However, I'm glad I'm catching on to these interface differences before I do a tutorial. Not much LW video tutorials I can find..but this one looks pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsF8j_hRMqY .

I might follow a Maya tutorial, but I kind of want to watch someone else use LW and mimic so I can get the hang of the interface more.

On a positive note, LW does seem to be lighter than Maya. Almost like Blender. Also, it is rather easy to get around and find things (for the most part). The text based icons really helps as opposed to icons.

After I guess I'll decide whether or not LW is worth the investment, otherwise will probably pick up on Blender more.

Welcome, glad it resolved your issues. Yeah LW behaves weird in some situations and Modeler, overall workflow and architecture are outdated. Stability is also not the best in some situations.

You will need a shitload of plugins and still don't reach anywhere the level of the top 3D applications.

If you want stability, modern architecture and endless resources of tutorials I would suggest C4D, I'm very happy with it. Price range is different but you could start with the full demo for 42 days and then maybe decide on C4D Prime to begin with (or continue with the limited demo afterwards to learn the program). Modo / Modo Indie might also be worth considering. Everything other than AD products is a good choice due to their license terms in my opinion. Blender doesn't work for me, I just can't stand the UI and navigation.

jperk
04-16-2017, 04:19 PM
Nevermind on that LW dolphin tutorial. Can't even load the dolphin pics via Display settings/ backdrop. "Disabled control. This control applies when fixed aspect ratio is off" However, I see fixed aspect ratio option, but it's greyed out. Must be a Discovery Edition limitation. That's a bummer. Really wanted to test out this tutorial w/ the ref pics.

And again thank you for your insights. I am starting to see how LW is sort of outdated. Of course longtime LW users might just consider them quirks that can be bypassed. Modo Indie ($299 perpetual license) might be an option. I can't download Modo demo as of now (link has been down). Going to contact The Foundry on Modo prices. One thing I like about Newtek is that they are very clear on pricing / licenses and pretty fair compared to alternatives. If Autodesk did the same w/ Maya LT I'd obviously go w/ that. However, they don't and I just don't want to do the subscription module right now. Modo Indie has rendering enabled, I believe Maya LT excludes this feature. Also, Maxon is doing that subscription module like Autodesk. Cinema4D is kind of out of my budget.

Oh, and has anyone tried Shade 3D? Is it worth checking out? It's Japanese based software. If all fails, I guess I can just learn Blender more. As mentioned earlier in thread, I've modeled in Blender it's not so bad w/ tutorials and once you get the hot keys down. I just find the interface very clunky. Also, moving lights and adjusting camera for renders doesn't seem as intuitive as what I'm used to in Maya. Despite the constant headaches Maya has given me this semester, I must say I don't mind the interface and I especially like the viewport navigation. There's always Animation: Master for $300 as well. Can't believe it's still around. Although I never used it, talk about outdated and 90's interface. Plus, I think it only does nurbs.

Marander
04-16-2017, 04:29 PM
Nevermind on that LW dolphin tutorial. Can't even load the dolphin pics via Display settings/ backdrop. "Disabled control. This control applies when fixed aspect ratio is off" However, I see fixed aspect ratio option, but it's greyed out. Must be a Discovery Edition limitation. That's a bummer. Really wanted to test out this tutorial w/ the ref pics.

And again thank you for your insights. I am starting to see how LW is sort of outdated. Of course longtime LW users might just consider them quirks that can be bypassed. Modo Indie ($299 perpetual license) might be an option. I can't download Modo demo as of now (link has been down). Going to contact The Foundry on Modo prices. One thing I like about Newtek is that they are very clear on pricing / licenses and pretty fair compared to alternatives. If Autodesk did the same w/ Maya LT I'd obviously go w/ that. However, they don't and I just don't want to do the subscription module right now. Modo Indie has rendering enabled, I believe Maya LT excludes this feature. Also, Maxon is doing that subscription module like Autodesk. Cinema4D is kind of out of my budget.

Oh, and has anyone tried Shade 3D? Is it worth checking out? It's Japanese based software. If all fails, I guess I can just learn Blender more. As mentioned earlier in thread, I've modeled in Blender it's not so bad w/ tutorials and once you get the hot keys down. I just find the interface very clunky. Also, moving lights and adjusting camera for renders doesn't seem as intuitive as what I'm used to in Maya. Despite the constant headaches Maya has given me this semester, I must say I don't mind the interface and I especially like the viewport navigation. There's always Animation: Master for $300 as well. Can't believe it's still around. Although I never used it, talk about outdated and 90's interface. Plus, I think it only does nurbs.

The demo shouldn't be limited in functionality, maybe you have to adjust the aspect ration in the display options.

I agree to everything you said above except that the Maxon short term licenses are different from AD subscriptions because you can deduct 2/3 from the price when you purchase a (Studio only I guess) license. Prime or Bodypaint is not too bad however. Best price / functionality is with C4D Broadcast in my opinion. And the perpetual license of C4D works without any activation, just enter the serial number and start working on any machine.

jperk
04-16-2017, 04:42 PM
The demo shouldn't be limited in functionality, maybe you have to adjust the aspect ration in the display options.

I agree to everything you said above except that the Maxon short term licenses are different from AD subscriptions because you can deduct 2/3 from the price when you purchase a (Studio only I guess) license. Prime or Bodypaint is not too bad however. Best price / functionality is with C4D Broadcast in my opinion. And the perpetual license of C4D works without any activation, just enter the serial number and start working on any machine.

Wasn't able to find aspect ration in LW display options.

Also, C4D prime is priced similar to LW. However, I think Maxon offers Cinema 4D Student version for free now. However, academia stores still sell versions. Very confusing.

Marander
04-16-2017, 04:56 PM
Hmm sorry can't reconstruct the backdrop image issue, I can load images with various aspect ratios, weird...

Yes, true, forgot about the Student version.

Have you considered Houdini Indie? You can download Houdini Apprentice and start experimenting. Indie is subscription only unfortunately but the price of $200 a year is great. And Houdini Core (perpetual) is reduced price until May I think. Downside is the steep learning curve but it's an incredible application.

jperk
04-16-2017, 05:00 PM
Thanks. I will look into Houdini Indie. Also, are you familar w/ Animation: Master (has Hash updated this?), Strata, and Shade 3D? I never really hear about these.

Will probably look into Modo or Blender at this point. Wish Autodesk would make Maya LT non subscription. I don't want to feel enslaved into month-to-month payment system. Would rather pay a full price and just start working w/ it.

Marander
04-16-2017, 05:18 PM
Thanks. I will look into Houdini Indie. Also, are you familar w/ Animation: Master (has Hash updated this?), Strata, and Shade 3D? I never really hear about these.

Will probably look into Modo or Blender at this point. Wish Autodesk would make Maya LT non subscription. I don't want to feel enslaved into month-to-month payment system. Would rather pay a full price and just start working w/ it.

I think Animation: Master, Strata, Shade 3D and Carrara (and of course TrueSpace) are really outdated applications that cannot be compared to LW, Blender and modo.

AD will most likely not offer perpetual licenses anymore, currently they try to convince perpetual users to change to subscription and the maintenance for perpetual is increasing drastically the next years.

I think all LW, modo, C4D and Houdini Indie are good applications for the money and features they offer with different strenghts. In your position I would get all the demos of those, do some tutorials and go for a Student version of your two favorite ones (or use Blender). There is also Bforartists (Blender for Artists) available which has a better navigation.

Also think about your career path and which applications are most used for the tasks you're interested in (Rigging, Character animation, Modeling, FX, Simulations, MoGraph, Concept Art, Games, Previz etc.). If you want to work as freelancer / one-man company it doesn't matter so much but if your aim is Feature Film / TV than I guess Maya, Houdini and C4D are the applications to go for. ArchViz 3DSMax and C4D.

For Concept Art for example (and of course many other realms) I consider LW as a very capable and fast application (due to VPR).

jperk
04-16-2017, 05:37 PM
I think Animation: Master, Strata, Shade 3D and Carrara (and of course TrueSpace) are really outdated applications that cannot be compared to LW, Blender and modo.

AD will most likely not offer perpetual licenses anymore, currently they try to convince perpetual users to change to subscription and the maintenance for perpetual is increasing drastically the next years.

I think all LW, modo, C4D and Houdini Indie are good applications for the money and features they offer with different strenghts. In your position I would get all the demos of those, do some tutorials and go for a Student version of your two favorite ones (or use Blender). There is also Bforartists (Blender for Artists) available which has a better navigation.

Also think about your career path and which applications are most used for the tasks you're interested in (Rigging, Character animation, Modeling, FX, Simulations, MoGraph, Concept Art, Games, Previz etc.). If you want to work as freelancer / one-man company it doesn't matter so much but if your aim is Feature Film / TV than I guess Maya, Houdini and C4D are the applications to go for. ArchViz 3DSMax and C4D.

For Concept Art for example (and of course many other realms) I consider LW as a very capable and fast application (due to VPR).

Ah, I remember Truespace , I had version 4.2 back in 2001-2002. Was pretty lousy at 3D then, I remember modeling a very basic island in the water and some environmental pieces. Probably good I still don't have those renders.

Right now, I'm sort of still debating between LW2015 student (would later upgrade to commercial) and Modo Indie. Just emailed The Foundry and there demo link for Modo is still down. Still, certain things about LW that do seem outdated, but I do prefer the clean interface compared to say Blenders. Though Blender is still a last resort option.

Looking to get into modeling, games, concept art, maybe Film/ TV. Maybe for documentaries / museum / or educational software.

Marander
04-16-2017, 05:50 PM
Yes Truespace and its plenty icons was fun at that time! I only did some shiny spheres on a checkerboard floor :)

What you have to consider is that NewTek is changing the license scheme for the next version. If you're not on 2015 when it comes out, the upgrade and new license price is much higher:

With our next release the new pricing program for LightWave will be:

LightWave Special Upgrade Price from a Current Version - $295 (USD)
LightWave Regular Upgrade Price from a Non-Current Version - $795 (USD)
LightWave Full License Price - $1195

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model

So, you buy LW 8.5 from ebay for $50, add a $100, then upgrade to 2015 for $395 and then again to LW next 295$, all together $840, not so cheap anymore...


Ah, I remember Truespace , I had version 4.2 back in 2001-2002. Was pretty lousy at 3D then, I remember modeling a very basic island in the water and some environmental pieces. Probably good I still don't have those renders.

Right now, I'm sort of still debating between LW2015 student (would later upgrade to commercial) and Modo Indie. Just emailed The Foundry and there demo link for Modo is still down. Still, certain things about LW that do seem outdated, but I do prefer the clean interface compared to say Blenders. Though Blender is still a last resort option.

Looking to get into modeling, games, concept art, maybe Film/ TV. Maybe for documentaries / museum / or educational software.

Also, this is still an option but I got to act quick, whats your opinion? Should I buy and pay Newtek the $100 transfer fee? Then upgrade to new version when I can afford to? At least I'd have the commercial version from the start as opposed to starting w/ student version of 2015. Plus it comes w/ all the books and VHS tapes haha (i'll actually have to hunt down a VHS to watch those).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252853724352?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

jperk
04-16-2017, 06:01 PM
Damn! So better go w/ LW 2015 educational. Hopefully Newtek still keeps the educational to commercial upgrade price intact w/ new version. Right now, those w/ educational license can upgrade to the same price commercial users would pay to upgrade.

Marander
04-16-2017, 06:11 PM
Damn! So better go w/ LW 2015 educational. Hopefully Newtek still keeps the educational to commercial upgrade price intact w/ new version. Right now, those w/ educational license can upgrade to the same price commercial users would pay to upgrade.

Yes actually I think this is really the best option, reading about LightWave 2015 Educational now, it is the full commercial version and I didn't see any restriction about creating content or anything else. Also, once you have your license, you can install and use it just like the normal LW version, not bad.

And I think much better, you can instantly download and use and not having the ebay deal hassle with a physical dongle, going through the license transfer etc. and end up upgrading to the new version.

samurai_x
04-16-2017, 06:12 PM
Houdini core too crippled, too expensive
https://www.sidefx.com/filmtv/compare/
I think the best choice is lw educ or modo indie perp.
No to rental or subs.

jperk
04-16-2017, 06:16 PM
Okay so no on the ebay offer? It's closing in a couple hours. So tempting...even if I transfer license of version 8.5 via Newtek I still have to deal w/ dongle? Never even used a dongle before. I was hoping Newtek would just offer a download of 8.5 via the website.

Not sure how that would work.

Marander
04-16-2017, 06:17 PM
Houdini core too crippled, too expensive
https://www.sidefx.com/filmtv/compare/
I think the best choice is lw educ or modo indie perp.
No to rental or subs.

Yes true, but I just noticed that there is a Houdini Student version for $75 per year, that's insane. Wish I was a student again :-)

Marander
04-16-2017, 06:20 PM
Okay so no on the ebay offer? It's closing in a couple hours. So tempting...even if I transfer license of version 8.5 via Newtek I still have to deal w/ dongle? Never even used a dongle before. I was hoping Newtek would just offer a download of 8.5 via the website.

Not sure how that would work.

I wouldn't do the ebay deal, yes before 11.0.3 or something like that it was licensed with a dongle, then you need sentinel drivers etc. (don't know if that works on Win 10 or modern MacOS even). Go for LW Edu $199, modo Indie or Houdini Student $75 a year.

Never used a dongle too, maybe that is even parallel port and not USB.

jperk
04-16-2017, 06:22 PM
I wouldn't do the ebay deal, yes before 11.0.3 or something like that it was licensed with a dongle, then you need sentinel drivers etc. (don't know if that works on Win 10 or modern MacOS even). Go for LW Edu $199, modo Indie or Houdini Student $75 a year.

Really hoping Newtek doesn't change/ remove option to upgrade from educational to commercial license via standard upgrade price. That is if I do go for the 2015 educational version. I still want to be able to upgrade to commercial at a fair price...not $795.

If Newtek goes subscription I will just go to Blender.

Only reason I'm here is because Newtek is really the only alternative to subscription modules. Also, I'm here because I've always wanted to learn LW since I was a kid. Has always been the most affordable commercial 3D software.

Snosrap
04-16-2017, 06:29 PM
How do you deal with the alt key to orbit/ rotate? It feels off and not as precise as say Blender and Maya. I mention those programs because they are the only two I've used.

That's really the only thing I know - so I love it! :) All kidding aside, its so true. Anytime I open 3DS Max or Inventor out of habit I hit those key combinations, although I am slowly weaning off and am starting to use my 3D
Connexion more for those apps. (I hate using it in LW:))

jperk
04-16-2017, 07:18 PM
That's really the only thing I know - so I love it! :) All kidding aside, its so true. Anytime I open 3DS Max or Inventor out of habit I hit those key combinations, although I am slowly weaning off and am starting to use my 3D
Connexion more for those apps. (I hate using it in LW:))

Both LW and Maya orbit with ALT held down. However, it def takes getting used to in LW. Objects don't rotate the same way as they do in Maya or Blender. However, I think I got the hang of it. It's just different (maybe a tad outdated feeling).

samurai_x
04-17-2017, 03:02 AM
Whatever app you choose you can make it work how you want it.
I use blender, lw, modo, maya , 3dmax with w,e,r as translate and 1,2,3 as subobject modes with maya style navigation.
Commands are also customized to make them similar. It helps a lot when jumping from app to app.
You need autohotkey though.

Even 3dcoat I use zbrush style workflow. :D

prometheus
04-17-2017, 07:03 AM
Thanks. Changing from mouse to tablet seems to have fixed that problem. Still very odd though.

Also, changing to older FBX did work. Thanks again. :)

Lastly, it's a bummer the flip faces is normal in LW. However, I'm glad I'm catching on to these interface differences before I do a tutorial. Not much LW video tutorials I can find..but this one looks pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsF8j_hRMqY .

I might follow a Maya tutorial, but I kind of want to watch someone else use LW and mimic so I can get the hang of the interface more.

On a positive note, LW does seem to be lighter than Maya. Almost like Blender. Also, it is rather easy to get around and find things (for the most part). The text based icons really helps as opposed to icons.

After I guess I'll decide whether or not LW is worth the investment, otherwise will probably pick up on Blender more.

Display settings in modeler has a interface tab where you check mouse wheel zoom..if you missed it, it wonīt kick in effect unless closing the display window.
Yeah..flipping normals has always felt weird when extruding, when beveling it respects the normal direction ..so that yields wrong facing normals if you bevel the opposite the normals, However..if you have double sided polygons that shouldnīt occour.
There are some other commands that is similar, like extend " e" but that will only extend the selected polys or poly towards normal direction..and it will not cap the bottom if you start of with a single poly, so you will get hole in the bottom, unless you make such poly double sided, so extend is useful when you select polys on top of a mesh and want to lift certain polys similar to extrude, just select polys, hit e for extend, t for move or use point normal move (almost hidden under more in the transform tab)

You can also extrude single polygons out with the tweak tool (in modify tab) hover over the poly and it will autohighlight, right click while holding ctrl button will extend/extrud the poly surface..unfortunatly it works only on single polys and not groups.

Multishift and smooth shift is also some of the extend/ extrude tools, smooth shift will let you extend out polys in groups and it does so by a straight constrained normal extension by default, multishift has some more options ..bu smooth shift may be easier to work with for standard extension extrusion operations.
So extend, smooth shift and multishift and learn to recognize when and where to flip polys is crucial in my opinion.

Blender is awesome for some modeling stuff, I use it more and more myself, and sculpting tools, skin modifier(draw edges and make a mesh from it) and the fact that you can draw a cut on a mesh surface and extrude in a way that Lightwave simply canīt ..those are some things I like, and with the later blender versions you can just draw curves that are thickened in one go on to any polysurface, grease pencil is great too ..where you can draw any curve on a surface and then make it 3d.
Hereīs a sample of the knife cut on a surface that you can perform with any change in the direction directly on any single or multi polysurface, I frankly havent seen any tool available in lightwave that can do that, not even a commercial plugin.

Things like sensei easy split still requires edges to change direction..I think, as far as I know, you can not do this operation in lightwave..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URUd5C2wTmQ&list=PLdaQ-nxd0g2cyo-iZhis2Ke600ivFMOGT&index=1


Note..there are many many ways and tools in lightwave I would like to see in blender as well, so just because I praise these blender tools..it doesnīt mean it works as any huge modeling comparison statement.

jperk
04-17-2017, 10:43 AM
^

Yeah the Blender knife cut is a nice tool. Was actually looking how to do that in LW2015 trial. Not even sure Maya has this capability.

Also, I lost that LW 8.5 bid, which sucks. Some other bidder had secret bids that weren't showing up he had placed $200 despite it showing him placing amount for $51. I got up to $198 before I ran out of time.

So glad I didn't win for that amount because I just contacted Newtek and yes they have clarified that any LW 2015 license (commercial or educational) is eligible for the $295 upgrade to LW "Next." I'm assuming the current policy on upgrading from educational license to commercial still applies in which case it would cost $295 to upgrade from educational to commercial. That's a pretty sweet deal and def something to look into.

Can anyone guess the release date of LW "Next" ? Or is it still a big mystery?

prometheus
04-17-2017, 12:32 PM
^

Yeah the Blender knife cut is a nice tool. Was actually looking how to do that in LW2015 trial. Not even sure Maya has this capability.


Can anyone guess the release date of LW "Next" ? Or is it still a big mystery?

I donīt think it is possible in lightwave to cut a poly like that..not even with plugins.

Only the lightwave team can say for sure, the rest is just meaningless guessing..which may or may not be accurate depending on whoīs the lucky punk, I thought over a half a year ago, that it must surely be released within two months..now I start to wonder if it will even show up until next year.

jperk
04-17-2017, 12:45 PM
Only the lightwave team can say for sure, the rest is just meaningless guessing..which may or may not be accurate depending on whoīs the lucky punk, I thought over a half a year ago, that it must surely be released within two months..now I start to wonder if it will even show up until next year.

Yeah I contacted Newtek about "Next." They just told me to follow social media, forums, etc.

prometheus
04-17-2017, 01:12 PM
Yeah I contacted Newtek about "Next." They just told me to follow social media, forums, etc.

Unfortunately, they wonīt tell you much...and the blogs will not hint in any way when the release will show up, not by the frequence they are showcasing the blog, the rest of social media is probably what others are doing with lightwave...not what they in addition to the blogs are feeding the community about the development.

I am very split about my feelings around the long development time, lightwave 2015 has been a disaster in terms on stability for me, and that is testing on both my computers..desktop and laptop, to many crashes..while 11.6.3 was the most stable release..so in that regard I do hope the long release may suggest a well tested stable release, then again It could also suggest that it wonīt be very stable considering it seems to be a massive overhaul change in render engine and geometric engine, which could suggest we are up for some suprises and bugs, but itīs just speculations and painting the devil on the wall without knowing through actually testing it.

I also need to get me some newer machines, I was trying out the demos of the new cool fas physx up fluid plugin from hurley, which unfortunately need cuda 3 cards ..so my machines from year 2010 wonīt cut it anymore.

jperk
04-17-2017, 01:47 PM
Unfortunately, they wonīt tell you much...and the blogs will not hint in any way when the release will show up, not by the frequence they are showcasing the blog, the rest of social media is probably what others are doing with lightwave...not what they in addition to the blogs are feeding the community about the development.

I am very split about my feelings around the long development time, lightwave 2015 has been a disaster in terms on stability for me, and that is testing on both my computers..desktop and laptop, to many crashes..while 11.6.3 was the most stable release..so in that regard I do hope the long release may suggest a well tested stable release, then again It could also suggest that it wonīt be very stable considering it seems to be a massive overhaul change in render engine and geometric engine, which could suggest we are up for some suprises and bugs, but itīs just speculations and painting the devil on the wall without knowing through actually testing it.

I also need to get me some newer machines, I was trying out the demos of the new cool fas physx up fluid plugin from hurley, which unfortunately need cuda 3 cards ..so my machines from year 2010 wonīt cut it anymore.

Would you recommend getting a workstation card? I've been using a Radeon r9 380

prometheus
04-17-2017, 03:13 PM
Would you recommend getting a workstation card? I've been using a Radeon r9 380

I personally do not like to mess with building my own stuff and manage all the hardware, which means it tend to become quite expensive I guess, never a Mac..never amd, never radeon, itīs all nvidia gtx cards for me with proper cuda and developed support for physx , so that both after effects..in the future octane..and turbulence..perhapss hurleyworks UP fluid solver will work well, I also like to mess with some fractal generators like fractron that uses gpu as well, ssd disk a must I susspect for fluid sim cache, and a lot of ram, I suspect that hurleyworks advanced placement may need or take advantage of physx, and apart from the fluid stuff..there will be cloth stuff too.

Guess I will be looking at prebuild monsters like..
https://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/datorer_och_tillbehor/259067-asus_g11cd-k-nr070t-i7-7700-16gb-1tb_512gb_ssd-gtx_1080_8gb-win_10

or even worse/better...this store has their own configuration, and more expensive too...but itīs with two gtx1080, wich must boost the power for octane for instance...

https://www.webhallen.com/se-sv/datorer_och_tillbehor/247138-webhallen_config_d16-0306-i7-6700k-16gb-500gb_ssd__1tb_hdd-gtx1080_sli-win_10

Intel Core i7-6700K - 8 trådar / 4,0GHz (4,2 Ghz Turbo) / 8MB / Socket 1151
2x ASUS STRIX GeForce GTX 1080 8GB GAMING (STRIX-GTX1080-A8G-GAMING) i SLI
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) / 2666MHz / DDR4 / CL16 / CMK16GX4M2A2666C16
Samsung SSD 750 EVO 500GB (MZ-750500BW)
Seagate Intern Hårddisk Desktop HDD 1TB (Cache 64MB / 7200RPM / Sata 6Gb/s) ST1000DM003
ASUS Z170-A - ATX / Z170
Cryorig H5 Ultimate CPU Kylare
EVGA PowerSupply (PSU) SuperNOVA 750 G2 750W
Fractal Design Define S - Svart
DVD/BD: Har ej plats för DVD läsare

Though I need to check in to these a bit more, it will probably not be until may or june, currently my old desktop is down due o bad fan, so that including the fact that my card are to old in cuda versions..may be an indicator that it is time to invest again..but I also need to check my economy for all that.
I would rather have two ssd drives as well..where on partition is for fluid cache rather than the main drive, and with this D!6 configuration..it will not be possible since that is a sata disc it seems, I am also wondering about no dvd reader, and no wifi..and also if the 2x 8 ram is good enough..someone mentioned 32 GB at least..so I donīt know.

If I were to go for this special configuration with two gtx 1080 cards..it would cost 3007.07 USD, So that would be quite a lot, I guess if I managed it myself..and set up my own config..it may be cheaper, but I have to look around and someone still need to build it and test it since I donīt have the patience for that.

I guess this config would be out of league for you? if you have a hardtime getting the full license of lightwave today?

It would have been nice to know what the next lightwave code will take advantage of in terms of hardware, if they have started to implement new types of particles and what that would require in ram or cpu/gpu.

jperk
04-17-2017, 03:30 PM
I built my own PC earlier this year. I stuck w/ AMD for affordability knowing the Intel / Nvidia offers more energy sufficient/ cooler temp GPUs/ CPUS.

Maya/ Mudbox has been running fine on it. Maya is even sluggish at times at my school which has XEON workstations and quadro cards.

MichaelT
04-17-2017, 05:01 PM
Hereīs a sample of the knife cut on a surface that you can perform with any change in the direction directly on any single or multi polysurface, I frankly havent seen any tool available in lightwave that can do that, not even a commercial plugin.



Actually you can do that in lw.. sort of.. but it is a bit more complicated sadly. I hope this type of operation is addressed in the coming version.

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wingzeta
04-17-2017, 05:34 PM
Max has had a cut tool that works like the one in blender for years now. It's one of the things I wish LW had, but there are a bunch of ways to achieve the same thing in LW. It just usually involves a little clean up. One thing I love in LW is the ability to select points and create a polygon by hitting "p". It is not as easy in Max at least.

jperk
04-17-2017, 05:38 PM
if you have a hardtime getting the full license of lightwave today?

My semester is ending soon and I'm still taking two Maya courses. Once over I'll most likely purchase LW2015 Educational for $195 right off the bat and then upgrade to commercial on LW "Next" for $295. That's my plan. Or maybe I'll go with Modo Indie 10 for $299, especially if there is a Steam summer discount. We'll see I'm going to wait till the end of the month to finally decide. I've been saving anyway.


Max has had a cut tool that works like the one in blender for years now. It's one of the things I wish LW had, but there are a bunch of ways to achieve the same thing in LW. It just usually involves a little clean up. One thing I love in LW is the ability to select points and create a polygon by hitting "p". It is not as easy in Max at least.

I haven't really sat down w/ Lightwave yet other than messing around w/ interface and tools. However, I do like the interface. It's simple and pretty straight forward. Easy to find things and that is largely base on the text based icons. That is one thing that annoys me greatly w/ Maya. Especially after Autodesk changed the icons drastically after version 2015. That orange/ blue color scheme just doesn't work. Everything just blends now and I always have to highlight icon to show text just to make sure it's the right tool I want to use.

djwaterman
04-17-2017, 07:26 PM
That knife cutting tool has also been available in Maya, working more or less the same as in Blender. I've been on these forums many times over the years suggesting LW Modeler adopt the concept but we got "Slice" instead, which only goes half the distance. That being said, LW Modeler is still very good and I prefer it over either Maya or Blender (although everything I do now for the last 3 months has been in Blender).

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MichealIt, what was your process for getting those cuts?

chikega
04-17-2017, 09:35 PM
Silo3d has had a very robust Cut Tool for years. It's too bad it's not really being developed much these days. Also NVil's Cut Tool is very robust.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5CSkknP3b4

erikals
04-17-2017, 11:21 PM
yep, been asking for that function for 10 years, nothing yet.
alternative >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qII83173uSc

MichaelT
04-18-2017, 01:57 AM
I used line pen, deleted the polygon, reconstructed the new polygon areas, extruded it, set CC and froze it. But you can do variations of that of course. But it sure needs some LW love to get better. I use 3d coat to clean things up, and then use zbrush remesh to get a nice model. In LW I need to fix those stray vertices sometimes set at a wild offset by zbrush.. no biggie. Then I can again use 3d coat to render out a view using its built in PBR render that works similar to Keyshot & Marmoset.

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And this was a 2 minute work (probably less) so don't expect much from this sample.

hypersuperduper
04-18-2017, 08:16 AM
3rdpwers knife tool works pretty much exactly like the blender tool in the video. its part of lwbrush.

MichaelT
04-18-2017, 08:45 AM
True :) (and I have it too).. but it is also an extension. This is a type of operation I'd consider normal these days. Something that really should be in LW by default. Pushing people to buy plugins for features most would expect to find in a tool per default, isn't helping LW winning any points for those persons. My point was that it is possible even today to do something similar.. but it could be much better in my view.

hypersuperduper
04-18-2017, 08:52 AM
Fair point. A point was made earlier though that there weren't even commercial plugins that did this. Just wanted to point out that there are. I don't really mind shelling out for decent plugins. It feels good to support smaller developers, but I understand that some see it as nickel and diming.

Asticles
04-18-2017, 10:00 AM
Could be something like this? Clicking RMB between cuts.

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MichaelT
04-19-2017, 03:05 AM
MichealIt, what was your process for getting those cuts?

I made a video response to your question, it may or may not be of some help explaining things.
Don't really do videos like this either so there is that too. I tried keeping things general, in case
it is of some help to someone else as well. So sorry for some of the ramblings in there :)


https://youtu.be/SVz-twJN50k

prometheus
04-19-2017, 04:09 PM
Actually you can do that in lw.. sort of.. but it is a bit more complicated sadly. I hope this type of operation is addressed in the coming version.

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Actually..you can't....sort of.
That's why you had to go through the tedious process with the line pen. .which I am familiar with....The point was not really how would you produce a cut..rather you just can't do it with ease as I did in blender..

Someone mentioned third powers knife tool..maybe I stand corrected in regards to my previous statement where I said I don't believe there's even a commercial plugins able to do the same..but I haven't seen it demonstrated..I would be glad to see someone record such similar operation with 3rd powers knife tool.
But as you as well said...It may belong in native model tool operations.

MichaelT
04-19-2017, 04:42 PM
Not with the same ease as in Blender (and c4d) no, but I can. Just because it is more complicated doesn't invalidate the fact that it is possible.

Anyway..

I should perhaps note that of all the programs I have tried, Cinema 4d & Blender are the only two (aside from LW) programs that can do this. And Blender is the only one (aside from LW) that can extrude the resulting shape without distorting the surface. However, Blender fails during the subdivision (which is much worse than LW) But when it comes to the poly shape creation part.. both C4D & Blender are both better than LW. And Blender does the best work there (for this type of work) of all three.

3DSMax can't do this at all.
Maya can but fails (and in some cases quite miserably) on extrusion. And can be quite destructive when subdividing too.
Modo can't do this at all either. For some reason they haven't included a tool to line draw on a surface. Not like it works in LW at least. It is actually a source of complaint over at their forum too.
Houdini can draw on surface, but is a bit messy. And it doesn't do a very good job of it either (just curves) But they promised to improve polygon modeling there.

So my point is.. there are pros and cons with most tools. But again (for me) I find myself looking to LW more often when doing pure polygon work.
C4D is doing many things better.. but is prohibitively more expensive. And frankly.. Blender is free.. so there are no excuses for not having it ;)

wingzeta
04-19-2017, 05:11 PM
Not with the same ease as in Blender (and c4d) no, but I can. Just because it is more complicated doesn't invalidate the fact that it is possible.

Anyway..

I should perhaps note that of all the programs I have tried, Cinema 4d & Blender are the only two (aside from LW) programs that can do this. And Blender is the only one (aside from LW) that can extrude the resulting shape without distorting the surface. However, Blender fails during the subdivision (which is much worse than LW) But when it comes to the poly shape creation part.. both C4D & Blender are both better than LW. And Blender does the best work there (for this type of work) of all three.

3DSMax can't do this at all.
Maya can but fails (and in some cases quite miserably) on extrusion. And can be quite destructive when subdividing too.
Modo can't do this at all either. For some reason they haven't included a tool to line draw on a surface. Not like it works in LW at least. It is actually a source of complaint over at their forum too.
Houdini can draw on surface, but is a bit messy. And it doesn't do a very good job of it either (just curves) But they promised to improve polygon modeling there.

So my point is.. there are pros and cons with most tools. But again (for me) I find myself looking to LW more often when doing pure polygon work.
C4D is doing many things better.. but is prohibitively more expensive. And frankly.. Blender is free.. so there are no excuses for not having it ;)

Actually 3DS Max does this extremely well if you are just talking about the cut tool. It is one of the things I wish LW would copy, and probably where Blender copied it from in the first place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZWPfbQCCa0

MichaelT
04-19-2017, 05:38 PM
Actually 3DS Max does this extremely well if you are just talking about the cut tool. It is one of the things I wish LW would copy, and probably where Blender copied it from in the first place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZWPfbQCCa0

Interesting.. when I used 3dsMax cut, it only accepted edge to edge. I have to look again if I set something wrong by mistake.

erikals
04-19-2017, 10:11 PM
there is no LW tool, commercial or not, that can do it with ease.
yep, the Blender Tool / Max tool is quite nice.

samurai_x
04-19-2017, 10:25 PM
So people want to use a cut tool that's producing a lot of tris, 5 point poles, ugly polyflow. :D

wingzeta
04-19-2017, 10:29 PM
I had to learn max in 2013, so I know this version of the cut tool has been around since then. The modern group of "graphite" modeling tools seems to have been added in 2010. Looks like the 2016 version of the tool had a bunch of bug complaints. Glad I don't subscribe;-)

wingzeta
04-19-2017, 10:40 PM
So people want to use a cut tool that's producing a lot of tris, 5 point poles, ugly polyflow. :D

It's nice to be able to cut a shape directly into a poly or polys. Fix the polyflow after lunch.

MichaelT
04-20-2017, 01:15 AM
:) so yeah.. 3dsMax does this well.. but I feel LW have better control than 3dsMax actually. Especially when it comes to the extrusion.
And its subdivision leaves much to be desired, Blender does this better than 3dsMax. But LW is much better here.

erikals
04-20-2017, 01:55 AM
So people want to use a cut tool that's producing a lot of tris, 5 point poles, ugly polyflow. :D
i take it that this was a joke.

kopperdrake
04-20-2017, 02:53 AM
there is no LW tool, commercial or not, that can do it with ease.
yep, the Blender Tool / Max tool is quite nice.

Sorry - are you saying there's no plugin that can cut directly on to multiple faces with ease for LightWave, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

MichaelT
04-20-2017, 03:07 AM
I think what he meant is that there is no plugin that allows for (what essentially amounts to) drawing on a surface (lines etc..) have it cutting up the surface, and getting the tedious manual reconstruction out of the picture. Like 3dsMax, Blender & C4D can. But I don't know myself... I haven't seen a plugin that does that well. At least not without cutting right through the actual model itself as well. I'd be happy if there is one however :) Happier still if that is actually in LW by default.

You can however extrude the line path and use boolean. Which is a lot quicker, but it looses the precision, since you are more into eyeballing things. Also the CC surface tends to be terrible at that point. The reconstruction is critical for it to work properly. And frankly, I think this is why the other programs fail too.

samurai_x
04-20-2017, 04:45 AM
i take it that this was a joke.

Nope.
I looked at the videos and that's just too messy output. And to turn it into subd that's just asking for creasing, shearing and render artifacts.

prometheus
04-20-2017, 05:20 AM
Not with the same ease as in Blender (and c4d) no, but I can. Just because it is more complicated doesn't invalidate the fact that it is possible.

Anyway..

I should perhaps note that of all the programs I have tried, Cinema 4d & Blender are the only two (aside from LW) programs that can do this. And Blender is the only one (aside from LW) that can extrude the resulting shape without distorting the surface. However, Blender fails during the subdivision (which is much worse than LW) But when it comes to the poly shape creation part.. both C4D & Blender are both better than LW. And Blender does the best work there (for this type of work) of all three.

3DSMax can't do this at all.
Maya can but fails (and in some cases quite miserably) on extrusion. And can be quite destructive when subdividing too.
Modo can't do this at all either. For some reason they haven't included a tool to line draw on a surface. Not like it works in LW at least. It is actually a source of complaint over at their forum too.
Houdini can draw on surface, but is a bit messy. And it doesn't do a very good job of it either (just curves) But they promised to improve polygon modeling there.

So my point is.. there are pros and cons with most tools. But again (for me) I find myself looking to LW more often when doing pure polygon work.
C4D is doing many things better.. but is prohibitively more expensive. And frankly.. Blender is free.. so there are no excuses for not having it ;)

He..yeah, I understand you..I would still say you canīt but it would be a silly discussion around what the point.. or my initial point was, and what I mentioned was that you can not do a cut in a way like in blender and the extrude it...maybe it wasnīt clear when I in such case should emphasize what I actually said "the fact that you can draw a cut on a mesh surface and extrude in a way that Lightwave simply canīt"
So it wasnīt just about getting the cut done and clean it up, it was the way you do it...so that is why I stubbornly, obtousely react when you say you can...sort of.

I have to checkout what you say about further subdividing the mesh in blender and that it fails to conclude if you are right there, by the way..was it noticable on my sample?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URUd5C2wTmQ&list=PLdaQ-nxd0g2cyo-iZhis2Ke600ivFMOGT

MichaelT
04-20-2017, 07:52 AM
@prometheus:
When you extrude the area in Blender (and many other programs too) and then use Opensubdiv etc.. (depending on the software) it is common for the result to be like in your video. Where you will have areas sticking out, bumps etc.. that is nothing like (at least) I expect when subdividing it.

MichaelT
04-20-2017, 08:25 AM
Nope.
I looked at the videos and that's just too messy output. And to turn it into subd that's just asking for creasing, shearing and render artifacts.

?? Doing it manually was the entire point of avoiding creasing etc..

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djwaterman
04-20-2017, 08:42 AM
Don't forget that Maya does this also, I think Maya did it first. Is it true that the 3rd Powers knife tool does it, cos it might be a reason to buy if that's the case. The reason a tool like this is good is not because it produces a lot of tris or five point polys, cos you can simply fix those with the tool, it's the total freedom of easily putting cuts anywhere you want to quickly add details without a lot of thinking, you can design the mesh to be all quads as you cut it up. Let me know someone if the 3rd Powers tool really does the same, in the video it shows the add points function, but that only seems to adds cuts from vertex to vertex or edge to edge, it doesn't show if you can park a cut anywhere in the middle of a face like the Maya and Blender tools.

prometheus
04-20-2017, 09:34 AM
@prometheus:
When you extrude the area in Blender (and many other programs too) and then use Opensubdiv etc.. (depending on the software) it is common for the result to be like in your video. Where you will have areas sticking out, bumps etc.. that is nothing like (at least) I expect when subdividing it.

I get you, thatīs the result of any subsurface deformation that doesnīt have supporting edge loops to maintaine the shape, if you were to subdivide within lightwave multiply subdiv without smoothing angle, you would get straight divisions and that would later maintain the shape if you subdivide it further, so the shape will actually maintain the extruded part pretty well, though it would also maintain the mainshape of the other area where you may perhaps want to turn it to a rounder shape, so you would have to select only the extruded part, and then divide that straight, or manually insering edgeloops for every corner...and not for instance not using catmull clark on the extruded part, but just use standard subdiv tools in edit mode and divide it, then run a full catmull clark subdivision modifier on top of all, but you certainly have a point...I need to check topology after such operations more closely to verify it all better.

hypersuperduper
04-20-2017, 11:49 AM
Don't forget that Maya does this also, I think Maya did it first. Is it true that the 3rd Powers knife tool does it, cos it might be a reason to buy if that's the case. The reason a tool like this is good is not because it produces a lot of tris or five point polys, cos you can simply fix those with the tool, it's the total freedom of easily putting cuts anywhere you want to quickly add details without a lot of thinking, you can design the mesh to be all quads as you cut it up. Let me know someone if the 3rd Powers tool really does the same, in the video it shows the add points function, but that only seems to adds cuts from vertex to vertex or edge to edge, it doesn't show if you can park a cut anywhere in the middle of a face like the Maya and Blender tools.

Lwbrush allows you to place cuts anywhere, even in the middle of a face. You need to select the faces you want to affect, though, because it will cut backfaces too if you don't. it is slightly different than the Blender video, but doesn't strike me as worse in any way. You can choose to cut straight lines with some soft snapping to keep ends together or draw your cuts freehand and pick an angle threshold. Then you can also pick if you want the cut or shapes detached or solidified. It is several billion times better than the native knife tool.

erikals
04-20-2017, 11:54 AM
?? Doing it manually was the entire point of avoiding creasing etc..
yep, the samurai needs a modeling lesson.


http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Is it true that the 3rd Powers knife tool does it, cos it might be a reason to buy if that's the case.
nope, doesn't cut it. (unfortunately)

prometheus
04-20-2017, 12:38 PM
Regarding this type of cuttting excercise, I myself donīt think I would spend much time using Lightwave and the line pen for any initial cuts..why, because it doesnīt draw continuous lines, you have to make sure your mouse cursor is snapping and hovering exactly over the last cut vertex and click again and continue to draw,(too much risc of not getting it snapped properly) and then again the same procedure for Every darn line, ..and after that delete the main surface and reconstruct..for me its way easier to just load in any object or create in blender then draw the cut without any big issue really, then you do not have to cut out and hit p for creating a poly to reconstruct every face around it, if am satisfied with the blender cut, just send it to lightwave and use "l" to connect to construct a better topoflow,Eventually use shift to triple and merge triangles or manually merge polygons... and occasionally where needed ..delete a few ones and make poly if necessary.

I would also hint for using the multishift in group mode and make an inset on the area that surrounds the extruded part.

- - - Updated - - -




yep, the samurai needs a modeling lesson.


nope, doesn't do it. (unfortunately)

Thatīs what I thought...why are some folks saying that..are we wrong or what?

MichaelT
04-20-2017, 12:44 PM
Just double click. Unless you move your move your mouse, it will hit that vertex :)

And the effort is worth it, especially on curved surfaces:

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prometheus
04-20-2017, 12:48 PM
Just double click. Unless you move your move your mouse, it will hit that vertex :)

And the effort is worth it, especially on curved surfaces:

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Right you are...but the rest, not so sure...it takes in my opinion a considerably longer time to work it that way with the line pen, and then actually reconstruct new faces, which you do not have to do that much if you just do the cut in blender and connect or shift triple in lightwave followed by merge triangles.

MichaelT
04-20-2017, 12:58 PM
To each his own... I'm not out to change how people do things :) I just wish LWG makes it easier to use those lines & curves. And doing the reconstructing automatically. While respecting the curvature (even the predicted, before alteration) so we don't have to mess around like this. Because this would be something very few programs do well.

I have some ideas how they could do that as well.

erikals
04-20-2017, 01:05 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngThatīs what I thought...why are some folks saying that..are we wrong or what?

DAMMIT, 3rdPowers Knife actually kinda does. Totally missed that somehow.
i'll smack up a video.

prometheus
04-20-2017, 01:07 PM
To each his own... I'm not out to change how people do things :) I just wish LWG makes it easier to use those lines & curves. And doing the reconstructing automatically. While respecting the curvature (even the predicted, before alteration) so we don't have to mess around like this. Because this would be something very few programs do well.

I have some ideas how they could do that as well.

Absolutly, you stressing out the other part is good, about getting a decent polyflow around the extruded area is valuable, the rest shows we could reallly use a better knife tool ala blender as I am certain we are on the same page about that function.

- - - Updated - - -





DAMMIT, 3rdPowers Knife actually kinda does. Totally missed that somehow.
i'll smack up a video.

Blah...fake news before then :) hubba..hubba, who can you trust :)
Looking forward to the evidence vid.

erikals
04-20-2017, 01:50 PM
aand... here we go! :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSzMcUH-kGw&feature=youtu.be

prometheus
04-20-2017, 02:01 PM
aand... here we go! :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSzMcUH-kGw&feature=youtu.be

Yeah..that is sort of it, though I didnīt see you using the line mode, but that should work as well?
The cut in the back is probably because you need to select the polys you intend to cut so you have those isolated?

The curve color was a bit hard to follow, can you change that in display settings, or does one have to change the color/diffuse values of the object to make the curve/line drawn more easier to follow?
I would like o know if you also can mix constrain line draw with non constrained lines when you change angle direction of the line cut, but sometimes you want it to be constrained straight.

erikals
04-20-2017, 02:21 PM
line mode, but that should work as well?
no, line mode works like the LW Knife, with the "only" difference that it actually works in perspective view.

The cut in the back is probably because you need to select the polys you intend to cut so you have those isolated?
yes, forgot, so easy fix.

The curve color was a bit hard to follow, can you change that in display settings,
it's using the Tool Color, so it can be changed globally in LightWave. under > Display Options/ Tool Color

if you also can mix constrain line draw with non constrained lines when you change angle direction of the line cut, but sometimes you want it constrained straight.
good request. no, currently you cannot do that.

Marander
04-20-2017, 02:41 PM
DAMMIT, 3rdPowers Knife actually kinda does. Totally missed that somehow.
i'll smack up a video.

LWBrush Knife doesn't seem to do this properly, for example it cuts through the geometry even in skin mode, it is not accurate in the perspective etc. Maybe it's me but I don't find it accurate or intuitive at all.

Edit: Curve mode with high reduction threshold seems to work better, but cuts trough the polygons and not accurate in my opinion. I find the built-in slice tool better.

136596

C4D Knife works exactly as expected for me. Simple but with many powerful options if required. And the cuts can be edited, rotated, snapped etc. in realtime.

136597

136598

136599

erikals
04-20-2017, 03:04 PM
works fine here, as long as i select the polys first.
did you select the polys? are you running LWB on a Mac?
if still buggy, can you share the object?


and not accurate in my opinion.
for accuracy in LW you'll have to set the Display Options/ Perspective Amount to something low.
(alternatively, zoom out before cutting)

erikals
04-20-2017, 03:08 PM
just a test combining LWB Knife and JetoFillet >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bEH_Ae5mf4

Marander
04-20-2017, 03:41 PM
works fine here, as long as i select the polys first.
did you select the polys? are you running LWB on a Mac?
if still buggy, can you share the object?

for accuracy in LW you'll have to set the Display Options/ Perspective Amount to something low.
(alternatively, zoom out before cutting)

No, using PC. Yes, selecting polygons works, but tedious, I would just like to enable/disable visible only.

Here is what I mean for example with accuracy:

136600

136601

Marander
04-20-2017, 03:51 PM
just a test combining LWB Knife and JetoFillet >


And all this should be built-in in LW with few simple to use tools.

136602

Edit: Another example

136603

erikals
04-20-2017, 04:06 PM
can't argue with the two posts above  :)

Absolutely!

Marander
04-20-2017, 04:09 PM
can't argue with the two posts above  :)

Absolutely!

But: Thanks for the JettoFillet idea, didn't know about this free plugin, I will try it out!

erikals
04-20-2017, 04:27 PM
i use it all the time :)

https://www.youtube.com/user/erikalst/search?query=jetofillet

djwaterman
04-20-2017, 08:26 PM
Thanks for the test Erikals. It achieves similar, however it's not quite the same in that (at least in your demo) you have to draw out the whole cut in one go and the orange previs isn't showing you exactly the result which only becomes apparent when you've done it. I'd like to just be cutting with click, click, click, each time making a cut, and using the same tool to connect vertices like you do at the end to clean up the mesh and make it quads. It's close, in fact it does other things that are great, but still no cigar. For me this seems like a basic tool that should be native, unless there is something about LW that makes this type of operation impossible to achieve. One thing your video didn't show is what happens when you use it in 'Line' mode rather than 'Curve'.

samurai_x
04-20-2017, 08:42 PM
yep, the samurai needs a modeling lesson.


nope, doesn't cut it. (unfortunately)


Not from you. :D
The "technique" being shown, if people are not concerned with clean meshes, is faster done with mesh cutters rather than trying to use a cut tool so slowly around a sphere.
But I would rather use 3dcoat voxels, meshfusion or zbrush to do this kind of boolean type operations. Mesh will be subd friendly and easy to edit.

MichaelT
04-20-2017, 11:46 PM
I tend to use ZBrush, and 3D Coat as well for this type of thing. LW needs a more proper tool like in Blender & C4D.

erikals
04-21-2017, 02:04 AM
Not from you. :D
;)  http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

there are cons and pros to cutting the mesh directly.
i guess Max/Maya/Blender/C4D included the tool all for nothing?

djwaterman
04-21-2017, 02:07 AM
What happens when you use the 'Line' mode in LWbrush Erikals?

erikals
04-21-2017, 02:13 AM
line mode works like the LW Knife, but works properly in perspective view. (unlike LW knife)

bobakabob
04-21-2017, 03:08 AM
Thanks for the videos Erikals. Just a note on LW Brush, you do show this later, but 3rd Powers docs actually recommend turning down Modeller's Perspective viewport to a more 'orthographic' setting for best results so you wouldn't face the issues at the beginning.

erikals
04-21-2017, 03:14 AM
happy to help out,
yes, did cover the perspective note in the video, video eventually turned out to be a bit long though.

MichaelT
04-21-2017, 03:25 AM
It would be much better if 3dpowers accounted for the view, and brought that offset into the calculations. Changing the whole environment to suit one tool is a big no no. I never change my view to accommodate the needs of a single tool. It is asking for Murphy to attend the party :)

erikals
04-21-2017, 03:30 AM
not the optimal tool, still, quite useful. i'll be using it.

samurai_x
04-21-2017, 03:47 AM
;)  http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

there are cons and pros to cutting the mesh directly.
i guess Max/Maya/Blender/C4D included the tool all for nothing?

none of the videos posted showed the proper usecase for the cut tool.

erikals
04-21-2017, 04:38 AM
ok, so Max/Maya/Blender/C4D included the tool all for nothing? doubt it.

MichaelT
04-21-2017, 04:59 AM
Considering the LW line tool in my video isn't a cut tool at all...
What is a proper use case in your view?

I'm also curious as to why you think the final mesh would not be friendly?
136612

samurai_x
04-21-2017, 10:41 AM
ok, so Max/Maya/Blender/C4D included the tool all for nothing? doubt it.

erikals needs a modelling lesson. :D
The cut tool for me is primarily to control mesh flow in low poly models used in games. Like spinquad, connect tool(L), splitpoly, etc.
Not cutting some lines on a mesh making ngons, 5 point poles, that produces messy model.
But people just model in zbrush and bake to a retopo mesh now. Cleaner mesh, more detail, faster workflow.

djwaterman
04-21-2017, 11:44 AM
Here's a quick video I did to show how you can use the knife tool in Blender (or Maya) to quickly cut a polygon up and start creating without too much forethought. I guess I'm making a car fender in this but I wasn't aiming for anything hi def.


https://vimeo.com/214208788

kopperdrake
04-21-2017, 11:47 AM
Has anyone mentioned LWCAD can cut on a polygon, like this?

erikals
04-21-2017, 12:24 PM
erikals needs a modelling lesson. :D
The cut tool for me is primarily to control mesh flow in low poly models used in games. Like spinquad, connect tool(L), splitpoly, etc.
Not cutting some lines on a mesh making ngons, 5 point poles, that produces messy model.
But people just model in zbrush and bake to a retopo mesh now. Cleaner mesh, more detail, faster workflow.

alright, i'll leave your modeling skills alone.


Has anyone mentioned LWCAD can cut on a polygon, like this?
no, not mentioned, if so, mighty nice. :)

erikals
04-21-2017, 12:27 PM
Here's a quick video I did to show how you can use the knife tool in Blender (or Maya) to quickly cut a polygon up and start creating without too much forethought. I guess I'm making a car fender in this but I wasn't aiming for anything hi def.


https://vimeo.com/214208788

Nice! :king:

MichaelT
04-21-2017, 12:42 PM
@djwaterman: Yup.. this is why LWG needs to fix this in LW. And it is way overdue too.

LWCad.. sure.. but again.. (even though I like LWCAD :) ) this is something that I really should not have to jump to a plugin for.

Marander
04-21-2017, 02:10 PM
Here's a quick video I did to show how you can use the knife tool in Blender (or Maya) to quickly cut a polygon up and start creating without too much forethought. I guess I'm making a car fender in this but I wasn't aiming for anything hi def.


Very good example!

Modeling in Blender is nice (once you know the shortcuts which I don't).

If you haven't tried yet, HardOps and BoxCutter from masterXeon1001 are really nice tools for Blender hard surface modeling.

https://gumroad.com/l/hardops#

https://gumroad.com/masterxeon1001#

tischbein3
04-24-2017, 10:34 AM
So people want to use a cut tool that's producing a lot of tris, 5 point poles, ugly polyflow. :D

Who cares about the polyflow if it works :)

No honestly, its good if you want to add additional edgeflow for retopoing,
or for hard surface modeling where I do want to match edges to an existing texture, mapped on the polygons

Of course both methods do need further cleanup, but I like that you can actually split the design and cleanup
process in two separate tasks.

I miss lightwaves knife beahviour though, hard to quickly do some parallel diagonal cuts through a mesh in blender :(

jperk
04-24-2017, 11:19 AM
I was talking to my professor and learned that adobe offers the full Adobe suite (After effects, photoshop, etc) at $20 a month for students only. I've just learned that Cinema 4D Lite is included w/ After Effects. Is Cinema 4D lite worth checking out or is it limited? Does it include modeling, animation, UV mapping, and rigging tools on par w/ Modo, Maya, or LW?

EDIT:

Nevermind. C4D Lite seems to be missing a lot. Seems to only be good for importing models to use in After Effects. That and text based models for TV broadcast.

https://www.maxon.net/en/products/infosites/product-comparison/

jeric_synergy
04-24-2017, 11:35 AM
C4D Lite is indeed missing A LOT. You'll run your head into "the ceiling" quite rapidly. However, IMO the CC suite is WELL worth the money, even at 2.5X the price. C'mon, TWENTY BUCKS? How much do you spend on coffee in a month? Plus you'll at least get an orientation to C4D, Plus the sh*t-tonne of extras Adobe includes in CC. I regularly use PS, AE, Audition, Premiere, and there's like twenty more apps and a buncha extras (cloud storage, 3 urls, +more).

However, the Text effects available in C4D will make you h8 LW.

bazsa73
04-24-2017, 12:33 PM
I jumped on the Houdini horse instead of C4D. Everything I need mograph wise can be created efficiently in Houdini, just takes a while to get accustomed to the absolute nodal architecture.

jeric_synergy
04-24-2017, 07:19 PM
I jumped on the Houdini horse instead of C4D. Everything I need mograph wise can be created efficiently in Houdini, just takes a while to get accustomed to the absolute nodal architecture.

That would be interesting to see.

prometheus
04-25-2017, 10:19 AM
I miss lightwaves knife beahviour though, hard to quickly do some parallel diagonal cuts through a mesh in blender :(

Agreed ..Me too, bisect tool perhaps..not good enough, maybe just use loop cut and slide instead would be my suggestion to get similar cuts in blnder like the knife tool in lightwave.
But otherwise for cutting on surface, blenders cut tool is great..while I just canīt get to grasp why you just cant do it like that with lightwave modeling tools, surely some folks must have reacted and wanted such tool to work ages ago..so I am a bit baffled why it still isnīt possible, seem to be something that should be fundamental.

allabulle
04-25-2017, 11:28 AM
That's how I learned to do it in Blender a while ago(*): Pressing 'K' for knife and 'Z' before committing will cut through the whole geometry (not just the polygons facing the viewport.) Then you can bevel the new edge loop crated with 'ctrl+b' and rotate the mouse wheel to add segments before committing. Then move the whole new set of 'cuts' in position and or scale them accordingly.

I surely miss the LightWave's knife tool, and the right click repeat cut.

* I don't remember the source right now, it was probably from a Masterxeon1001 tutorial.

MichaelT
04-25-2017, 11:46 AM
Agreed ..Me too, bisect tool perhaps..not good enough, maybe just use loop cut and slide instead would be my suggestion to get similar cuts in blnder like the knife tool in lightwave.
But otherwise for cutting on surface, blenders cut tool is great..while I just canīt get to grasp why you just cant do it like that with lightwave modeling tools, surely some folks must have reacted and wanted such tool to work ages ago..so I am a bit baffled why it still isnīt possible, seem to be something that should be fundamental.

Especially since there already is a line tool. It is not like literally everything you need isn't already there.

136628

tischbein3
04-25-2017, 01:41 PM
thanks, will keep tips of your both in mind !
chris

jperk
04-28-2017, 09:25 AM
Okay, last call. Very close to purchasing LW2015. I know some might be biased on a Newtek board, but I'm on the tip of the iceberg debating between LW2015 and Modo 10 Indie.

Any final remarks or opinions?

erikals
04-28-2017, 09:30 AM
you can buy used here, save a $
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?153193

i've been happy with LW and its workflow, i say , go for it   :)

jperk
04-28-2017, 09:32 AM
you can buy used here, save a $
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?153193

I was just going to buy student license for $195. Then upgrade to commercial at Newteks upgrade price. $395 right now. I think it will be $295 for LW Next. But I will consider option in given link if it's still around.

erikals
04-28-2017, 09:36 AM
you might also wanna go for LW student first , wait, then go directly for the LW2017 release. (should be out soon)

jperk
04-28-2017, 09:38 AM
you might also wanna go for LW student first , wait, then go directly for the LW2017 release. (should be out soon)

Thats my plan. I believe Newtek is rewarding 2015 owners with good upgrade prices for LW Next/ 2017 (commercial or educational) .

bobakabob
04-28-2017, 10:18 AM
Of course many people are here for a reason - 'cos they like the software. There are folk who underrate LW or seem to enjoy bashing the underdog. However, it's their loss, with pricepoint in mind LW as a creative tool is a no brainer. Of course it has its issues and there are some very good constructive discussions about what needs to be improved e.g. limited undo in Layout. But the grass is always greener. You're no doubt familiar with the Maya boards which are frequently hair raising featuring posts from people who struggle to start the app or open files. In a recent post a user was advised to edit their registry. Of course Maya is a deep powerful tool when its stable. I use it at work but wouldn't be without LW for my own personal and potential commercial stuff, and it has more than paid for itself in the past with freelancing.

jperk
05-02-2017, 06:55 AM
officially a owner of LW2015. Well, the education version at least. Will upgrade to commercial version soon or maybe will wait to do so until LW Next is released. Whenever that is released.

Also, is Adobe Creative Suite CS3 worth a purchase? I know its some versions behind. Or is Affinity Photo / Designer worth looking into? Paintshop Pro? Corel Painter? Currently looking for alternatives to subscription. I'm using Clip Paint Studio, but it's not really good for photo manipulation.

And I need an After Effects alternative or an affordable version of it. Fusion is all I can think of right now. My fear of using older versions of AE is that newer codecs won't be supported.

OlaHaldor
05-02-2017, 07:58 AM
I've heard of HitFilm, never used it. It's, as far as I've heard, a good AE substitute.
If you're not going for the Foundry Production Collective with Nuke (at a heft discount when you make the license from student to commercial), you could have a look at both Fusion (which you already have) and Natron.

I've got both Affinity apps, and I really like them. All though I haven't done much with Affinity Photo, it looks like it could completely replace Photoshop.

If you're looking for some editing software, have a look at DaVinci Resolve. It's hands down the most insane software you'll find for free.


With all the things mentioned above: no, I wouldn't get the Adobe CS3 license unless it's dirt cheap.

jperk
05-02-2017, 08:13 AM
Could get CS3 collection (w/ after effects, PS, Illustrator , etc) for $150.

Whats the different between affinity Designer/ Photo? Is Photo like lightroom? Designer is more photoshop/ illustrator?

Snosrap
05-02-2017, 09:36 AM
Could get CS3 collection (w/ after effects, PS, Illustrator , etc) for $150.

But will they continue to work with new OS's that arrive at a later date? I think there are enough solid alternatives to the Adobe products that that cord can be severed for good. My company provides me with the Adobe Suite for home and office, but for any personal work I avoid using those tools with the exception of PS which I own (CS6). My app of choice in place of AE is Hitfilm and in place of Illustrator I use Inkscape (free) and Corel Draw.

- - - Updated - - -


officially a owner of LW2015. Well, the education version at least. 'bout time. :)

jperk
05-02-2017, 10:24 AM
But will they continue to work with new OS's that arrive at a later date? I think there are enough solid alternatives to the Adobe products that that cord can be severed for good. My company provides me with the Adobe Suite for home and office, but for any personal work I avoid using those tools with the exception of PS which I own (CS6). My app of choice in place of AE is Hitfilm and in place of Illustrator I use Inkscape (free) and Corel Draw.

- - - Updated - - -

'bout time. :)

I reverted back to Win8.1 (w/ classic shell and XP theme :) ). Win10 UWP apps corrupted on me twice. That was enough for me to put the final nail in the coffin.

MichaelT
05-02-2017, 11:52 AM
You're using Apps?? I personally don't touch them if I can avoid it. Which isn't possible sometimes because Microsoft removed the standard w32 app, and replaced it with an UWP app >-(
Frankly, I think MS can stick their attempts to rule the applications world (by limiting them to their control in their own store) where the sun never shines :)

jperk
05-02-2017, 11:59 AM
You're using Apps?? I personally don't touch them if I can avoid it. Which isn't possible sometimes because Microsoft removed the standard w32 app, and replaced it with a UWP app >-(

I was actually using them. I actually wanted to see what the win10 experience was all about. It was working okay for a while. After the apps corrupted I just uninstalled them. Had to download open source software for calculator, photo viewer, etc. I was updating Win10 and nearly all the features/ updates went into the UWP based apps. Finally I just said screw it. I'm reverting back.

Had to go through some hoops getting Windows Update to update, but otherwise perfectly fine with W8.1 and classic shell. Turned off metro. Using the XP theme for nostalgia. Loved WinXP. Microsoft ruined Windows.
136706

MichaelT
05-02-2017, 12:01 PM
If you're sticking with Windows 8.1 then I can wholeheartedly recommend http://www.classicshell.net

Edit: oops.. that's what you did.. DOH! ;)

jperk
05-02-2017, 12:05 PM
If you're sticking with Windows 8.1 then I can wholeheartedly recommend http://www.classicshell.net

Edit: oops.. that's what you did.. DOH! ;)

Yes its perfect! Seriously who needs Win10. Feel like I'm running malware. What is Microsofts deal with having two separate archs: Win32 and UWP? I mean it is okay if you uninstall the apps and just use it normally. Personally, WinXP and 7 were the best. I'm a sucker for WinXP though. Miss classic windows when it was simpler to navigate, etc. Linux Mint really reminds me of what I loved about classic Windows.

I'm old school. I dont really use the taskbar to store apps. I'm a desktop kind of guy.

MichaelT
05-02-2017, 12:09 PM
It is in line with what they've been trying since windows95 .net debacle (although I doubt you'll know what that is all about?) where they tried to take control of Internet, and basically turn it into a cable TV service. If they had succeeded then, this whole IT development you're enjoying today? Gone!
They have always tried to take control of things.. same thing with DirectX. Let's buy a UK team (RenderMorphics ) that made what was to become DirectX 3d. And force everyone to use it, so we control games... and stop supporting that horrible freedom called OpenGL *shudders* and so on. Well, that turned out right.. right? :)

jperk
05-02-2017, 12:11 PM
maybe that's a good thing, at least for my university considering IT there sucks. ha! I was a younglin when W95 came out. Remember my parents put the computer in my room. It had dial up AOL on it and that ugly forest/window background. We had it growing up. I even remember using Win3.1 as a kid mostly to play Magic School Bus/ Arthur click n point games. I used Win98 and WinXP mostly.

OlaHaldor
05-02-2017, 02:08 PM
Could get CS3 collection (w/ after effects, PS, Illustrator , etc) for $150.

Whats the different between affinity Designer/ Photo? Is Photo like lightroom? Designer is more photoshop/ illustrator?

Affinity Designer = Adobe Illustrator.
Affinity Photo = Adobe Photoshop (+ some Lightroom features)

jperk
05-02-2017, 02:12 PM
I see. So for digital painting ..Affinity photo is good? For inking/pen , Designer (which I use Clip Paint Studio for anyway).

Also, what are essential plugins for LW2015? Especially in regards to UV mapping , animation, and rigging.

OlaHaldor
05-02-2017, 02:39 PM
I've not drawn anything in Photo, just made decals and processed images.

I've used Designer to draw a little, and it's a beast. Very good performance - and it's vectors.

MichaelT
05-04-2017, 03:22 PM
Since we are talking about different pieces of software, I just want to let you guys know that Allegorithmic also went maintenance today. The licenses are still permanent, but you won't receive new updates for more than a year. After which you need to pay for another year of updates.

Asticles
05-05-2017, 05:45 AM
At the end, everyone Blender; or legacy. Let's see how the prices will increase over the years. And if I stop paying, the hammer stops working. It gets gelatinous.

Schwyhart
05-05-2017, 06:13 AM
$20 a month isn't too bad though. About $240/yr.
The problem is that most people have multiple software, so add this to the other subscriptions you pay and now the monthly cost is too much.

Asticles
05-05-2017, 06:16 AM
There is no a software-for-everything. So yes, it's expensive.

jasonwestmas
05-07-2017, 10:45 AM
Yeah you kinda have to pick your battles these days if you want the best software for the particular job you are working on. I really can't afford the best for every specialized aspect of CG.

I love to animate in Maya but really it doesn't do much else for me compared to Zbrush, Keyshot, Lightwave, modo, Substance Suite in other aspects. But I seriously can't afford to keep updating all these packages (both financially and learning wise) on a regular basis, so I have to pick a few to have the latest and greatest. I probably should be focusing on specializing anyway.

Asticles
05-07-2017, 11:00 AM
Keyshot is expensive, isn't it? For me is totally replaceable by modo with the cad importer, or without it if you only work with solidworks. Also by blender if you have edrawings to export solid works or stl files.

jasonwestmas
05-07-2017, 11:08 AM
Keyshot is expensive, isn't it? For me is totally replaceable by modo with the cad importer, or without it if you only work with solidworks. Also by blender if you have edrawings to export solid works or stl files.

KeyshotHD for Zbrush is $200, Pro is $400 perpetual. I use it with Zbrush only via the keyshot bridge plugin. It also imports obj. It's great for concept work because I can view the sculpt with 10s of millions of polygons with some really nice lighting and shading without having to retopo each time.

https://support.pixologic.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/94/21/keyshot-6-upgrades

Asticles
05-07-2017, 11:11 AM
Sorry, I thought you had the full version.

jasonwestmas
05-07-2017, 11:19 AM
Sorry, I thought you had the full version.

It basically is rendering wise but yeah it's meant to work with Zbrush still shots. Fortunately these days there are several different kinds of licenses for whatever we need.

Rayek
05-07-2017, 09:03 PM
I see. So for digital painting ..Affinity photo is good? For inking/pen , Designer (which I use Clip Paint Studio for anyway).


Affinity Photo offers adequate tools for digital painting. But not nearly as good as Krita, which is in a different league, in my opinion (with normal map and HDR painting). Affinity Photo and Krita make a good combo, though. I wouldn't use Affinity Photo for digital painting myself. A bit too limited, and more importantly: somewhat unwieldy. My opinion, of course.

The lack of a stroke stabilizer while drawing (such as the one in Clip Paint) doesn't help either in Affinity Photo, and Krita has a very nice stabilizer built-in too. As well as some unique assistants for drawing perspective, etc.

You can test for yourself, since Krita is open source and free.

Asticles
05-08-2017, 02:27 AM
Just saw this.

https://youtu.be/qH8oNkdlOQs

Marander
05-08-2017, 06:38 AM
Just saw this.

https://youtu.be/qH8oNkdlOQs

LOL that is so old... it was for NevronMotion with LW 11.5. Sorry, no news from LW3DG as usual.

pming
05-09-2017, 12:41 AM
Hiya!

My suggestions:

Affinity Photo = Adobe Photoshop
Affinity Designer = Adobe Illustrator
Paintstorm = (natural-media digital painting) // OPTIONALLY: ArtRage5 (especially for Watercolours)
HitFilm = Adobe AE

(and I'm still fond of Sony Vegas for 'raw' digital footage stuff)

Farhad_azer
05-09-2017, 07:41 AM
Nobody mentions CorelDraw. Is it that much outdated or it is not a useful tool for CG generalists?
I like it.

Snosrap
05-09-2017, 07:56 AM
Nobody mentions CorelDraw. Is it that much outdated or it is not a useful tool for CG generalists?
I like it.

I've got an older version (10) and I like it. I actually cut my teeth in CG with it back in the early 2000s. CorelPaint is excellent as well. Does it have the equivalent of Photoshops adjustment layers yet?

Rayek
05-09-2017, 11:34 AM
My setup to replace Adobe:

PhotoLine <-- Photoshop (general image editing)
Krita and ClipStudio <-- Photoshop/Corel Painter (digital painting)
Davince Resolve <-- Premiere
Fusion, Blender <-- After Effects
Inkscape and PhotoLine <-- Illustrator

erikals
05-09-2017, 11:38 AM
for me...
DaVinci Resolve + Fusion
...all the way

Rayek
05-09-2017, 11:47 AM
Nobody mentions CorelDraw. Is it that much outdated or it is not a useful tool for CG generalists?
I like it.

CorelDraw is a great illustration tool as well.

Also worth investigating: Gravit. A 'resurrected' Freehand, of sorts. And all for free (the developers create their revenue by licensing their tech to companies)! Works in a browser and as a desktop app.
https://gravit.io/

Farhad_azer
05-09-2017, 12:16 PM
Sorry snosrap but my knowldege about Corel paint is nearly zero. I have not understood its effectiveness yet. So i can not answer u. Hopefully someone will.
Would you plz tell us a bit more on how corel fits in ur prodessional works?
What about you Rayek?

erikals
05-09-2017, 12:17 PM
i did try Serif, but the launch time is ridicules

Snosrap
05-09-2017, 01:06 PM
Sorry snosrap but my knowldege about Corel paint is nearly zero. I have not understood its effectiveness yet. So i can not answer u. Hopefully someone will.
Would you plz tell us a bit more on how corel fits in ur prodessional works?

I actually prefer Corel Paint over Photoshop for new art creation. But for photo manipulation Photoshop rules with adjustment layers. That's why I asked if the newer versions of Corel Paint had something similar. Our company has actually moved away from Corel and has jumped on the Adobe bandwagon. Standardization. :)

Asticles
05-09-2017, 01:09 PM
Affinity designer is worth a try, I'm enjoying it more every day passes.