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Continuum
03-28-2017, 11:26 AM
I've been interested in this for quite sometime. So I've been looking around and I've discovered that Lightwave is very capable when it comes to motion graphics. I guess it can match a lot of what other apps in this area excel at.

So my question is this, is there a need for a plugin in this area? What is Lighwave lacking?

Ztreem
03-28-2017, 02:25 PM
I'm no motion graphics artist, but I think what LW is lacking in this area is simple quick workflows more than capabilities. You can do most of the stuff in Lw, you maybe just have to work a little harder to get there.

Marander
03-28-2017, 02:57 PM
I've been interested in this for quite sometime. So I've been looking around and I've discovered that Lightwave is very capable when it comes to motion graphics. I guess it can match a lot of what other apps in this area excel at.

So my question is this, is there a need for a plugin in this area? What is Lighwave lacking?

It lacks proceduralism and non-destructive workflow, animatable cloners, generators, effectors and deformers for example. And LWs text and bevel tools are from last millennium. The particle and dynamics system don't work well together and are outdated. So no, I don't think it is very capable for MoGraph. C4D started with MoGraph 2006 in version 9.6 and was already more modern in some other architectural cornerstones than LW is today (and probably will be the next couple of years). Maya MASH and Houdini are also very good in this topic.

shrox
03-28-2017, 04:39 PM
It lacks proceduralism and non-destructive workflow, animatable cloners, generators, effectors and deformers for example. And LWs text and bevel tools are from last millennium. The particle and dynamics system don't work well together and are outdated. So no, I don't think it is very capable for MoGraph. C4D started with MoGraph 2006 in version 9.6 and was already more modern in some other architectural cornerstones than LW is today (and probably will be the next couple of years). Maya MASH and Houdini are also very good in this topic.

Works great for me...

wingzeta
03-28-2017, 04:42 PM
Second on the text tools. In LW I usually end up having to do some repair work on letters with bad geo. It's a time killer, and shouldn't be necessary. The particle system is very old school at this point, and needs to be updated. Beyond that a mograph like interface would go a long way to making things easier. Just not sure how that will be done with modeler and layout separation. Not to say you can't do awesome stuff now. It just takes a large variety of techniques, whereas, some guy with mograph can approach things with the same tools over and over, and vary results by mixing some sliders(oversimplification of course). Modeler tools in Layout should make it possible.

shrox
03-28-2017, 05:54 PM
Second on the text tools. In LW I usually end up having to do some repair work on letters with bad geo. It's a time killer, and shouldn't be necessary. The particle system is very old school at this point, and needs to be updated. Beyond that a mograph like interface would go a long way to making things easier. Just not sure how that will be done with modeler and layout separation. Not to say you can't do awesome stuff now. It just takes a large variety of techniques, whereas, some guy with mograph can approach things with the same tools over and over, and vary results by mixing some sliders(oversimplification of course). Modeler tools in Layout should make it possible.

For "olde" guys like me that used film, this stuff is incredibly easy now.

Continuum
03-29-2017, 05:20 AM
Thanks for the response. So there are varying opinions it seems on this issue.

Dpkit with nulls and gradients seems to emulate a few effectors well.

@shrox
You don't see any advantages in procedualism and non destructive workflows? Quick presets?

You can generate geometry in layout, but minus the modelling tools. So you can process everything in memory and send it back to Layout. But the new geometry engine will hopefully take things to a new level (efficiency, speed and tool reuse).

raw-m
03-29-2017, 06:01 AM
Works for me, too! As mentioned, there's a few things that need to be setup manually that others apps take care of for you but you could argue once you're rigged you can actually do a lot more. The trick is learning how to rig in the first place (bones, nodes etc) - it could certainly do with some UI attention, and definitely download DP Kit, you won't get far without it for mograph. For me, the only major bottleneck is the split app thing. It's starting to become a real issue for what I do - but it looks like there is a light on the horizon in the next version.

Take a look at my YT playlist for a few tutorials that will hopefully make things clearer as you go. Also use these forums and subscribe to the LightWiki page on Facebook for techniques and inspiration, there's some v talented LW people out there!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNtngKgmlV3c0-TrWmN8p1PaNTAtT32Ys

prometheus
03-29-2017, 11:29 AM
Sensei (trueart) has some plugins that seem to work as non destructive workflow for doing text in layout, but probably not open to work in conjuction for all the motion stuff, you can do with dp kit..if you stil l would want to add or roll back letters at the same time, change font or symbols while displacing it with dp kit etc, and object replacement.

Emulyator also has some very interesting plugins..or had, Haven´t seen it released or updated for a while, but it allowed for some nifty object replacement and animation in various ways, though the interface didn´t look that nice to work with for my eyes anyway..so what Ztreem say is worth to note, since no one seem to have come up with a simple UI workflow that ties all object replacement,displacement together.
Emulyator..
https://www.youtube.com/user/Emulyator/videos

I think Ryan Roye has some interesting tools as well as tutorials (commercial) on how to add special scripts that enhanced motion graphics.
Introduction to python..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZyYwjXYG14

RR Tools Product Visualization Usage...probably very useful..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4rFPBGw2-A

Advanced Displacement Methods in Lightwave..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7fRuOk_pWs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv3g2wTl1uM

Otherwise Bryphi´s vids of working with dp_nodes/kit might be something.

ernpchan
03-29-2017, 06:57 PM
My ShiftKeysPlus script is useful for mograph stuff. Raw-m uses it a lot.

http://ernestpchan.com/newtek-lightwave-scripts

vector
03-29-2017, 10:45 PM
If you need inspiration about what Lw can do in Mograph http://markwarner.tv

wingzeta
03-30-2017, 12:21 AM
You can do amazing things in LW without a doubt. The seemingly negative comments are just acknowledging that other tools, primarily C4D have invested in creating a mograph tool set that makes creating motion graphics faster and more systematic. The procedural aspect, also allows changes to any link in the chain, without destroying the chain. A lot of other MG work involves more advanced particle systems than what LW has, like Particular, X-particles and others. Turbulence FD is the only one I know of that is available for LW, and that seems to be a smoke and fire specialty tool, but I haven't tried it yet , so I could be wrong. It would be cool if Deep Rising or some other third party evolved a killer particle system for LW. Ideally, the native system would be updated, because it has been a long time, but to be fair the most advanced particle systems are still paid plugins in most other apps too. Houdini and Maya have more advanced native particles if I recall correctly.

BTW ShiftKeys+ looks really cool. A whole suite of tools like that, that make creating complex effects simple, would be awesome for motion graphics in LW. That is sort of the point of Mograph, and it helped C4D go from being a mostly unknown 3D app to a major player in a relatively short time.

prometheus
03-30-2017, 01:51 AM
You can do amazing things in LW without a doubt. The seemingly negative comments are just acknowledging that other tools, primarily C4D have invested in creating a mograph tool set that makes creating motion graphics faster and more systematic. The procedural aspect, also allows changes to any link in the chain, without destroying the chain. A lot of other MG work involves more advanced particle systems than what LW has, like Particular, X-particles and others. Turbulence FD is the only one I know of that is available for LW, and that seems to be a smoke and fire specialty tool, but I haven't tried it yet , so I could be wrong. It would be cool if Deep Rising or some other third party evolved a killer particle system for LW. Ideally, the native system would be updated, because it has been a long time, but to be fair the most advanced particle systems are still paid plugins in most other apps too. Houdini and Maya have more advanced native particles if I recall correctly.

BTW ShiftKeys+ looks really cool. A whole suite of tools like that, that make creating complex effects simple, would be awesome for motion graphics in LW. That is sort of the point of Mograph, and it helped C4D go from being a mostly unknown 3D app to a major player in a relatively short time.

I don't think turbulence has much to do with motion graphics as we usually define it...It doesn't even allow for particle advection. .If you would like to push particles that have objects/instances on them...that's where you may have some use for it..then again ..It is the
Light wave Sdk that doesn't allow it.
Otherwise it's just a fluid system.

Ryan Roye
03-30-2017, 08:44 AM
Shiftkeys+ is a must for anything involving mograph. It works great and I highly recommend it to any animator.

Continuum
03-30-2017, 02:43 PM
Thanks for all the feedback.

@raw-m

Actually I was referencing some of the your tutorials on YouTube, like the part move introduction. Lots of good stuff.

@prometheus

Interesting links, that looks like an interesting plugin indeed. Well now I know how far you can push the mesh creation in lightwave.

How do people feel about Intergrating a different user interface ontop of Lightwave (qt for example)?

The other tools shared are also impressive, seems people have a lot of options when it comes to motion graphics.