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View Full Version : Wow maybe LW is dead. New blog - few comments.



Snosrap
03-09-2017, 08:54 PM
Maybe LW is dead after all. They posted this -https://blog.lightwave3d.com/2017/02/cel-shading-features/ - great little blog and nobody is talking. :) The animated gif of the surface panel is awesome! Shows some potential real progress in workflows and UI improvements - bravo! Not a cel-shading guy myself but really excited about those UI advancements and edge shading. Maybe we can get some awesome ambient occlusion and curvature shading love too.

ernesttx
03-09-2017, 09:21 PM
I relate it to battle fatigue. This no communication from LW group for so long causes people to be indifferent. And why speculate on things we don't know or will ever know until it comes out. I'm so excited by that blog but my enthusiasm wanes because why talk about something that was relayed with bits of information. LW needs to release simple as that, then we'll have lots to discuss and experiment with and show others.

wingzeta
03-09-2017, 09:36 PM
New cel-shading looks great! Lino's pencil test is amazing. The edges are the best I've seen for cel-shade. It makes me want to do a cel-shade project myself. Guys already doing that kind of work must be licking their chops. Cool to see some new UI panels too. And LW is still alive apparently! I'll just be here holding my breath, until the next blog post. Please hurry!:devil:

Snosrap
03-09-2017, 09:46 PM
I relate it to battle fatigue. This no communication from LW group for so long causes people to be indifferent.

:) :) No doubt. :) :)

wingzeta
03-09-2017, 09:51 PM
Looking at the shaded Mazinger Z tests, It's a little unfortunate that so many of his parts are black, because the great edges get lost. Most often, I've seen the character's gauntlets and boots colored dark blue, which might have helped show off the edges. The reason I say this, is that I am so impressed with the clean edges in the pencil test. They would really look great on any character that was not mostly black. The tests are still really cool BTW.

bazsa73
03-09-2017, 11:29 PM
Yes!

MichaelT
03-09-2017, 11:54 PM
I relate it to battle fatigue. This no communication from LW group for so long causes people to be indifferent. And why speculate on things we don't know or will ever know until it comes out. I'm so excited by that blog but my enthusiasm wanes because why talk about something that was relayed with bits of information. LW needs to release simple as that, then we'll have lots to discuss and experiment with and show others.

^^^^^^ <- This.

djwaterman
03-10-2017, 12:09 AM
I'm not sure putting up another thread with an outrageous heading like "LightWave is dead" is great for inspiring confidence in the software, especially when it relates to what should be (the new blog post) a positive announcement. It's great news, but there is precious little to discuss on this topic, for me at least. However it certainly answers some of the concerns others have voiced about a photo based renderer. Snosrap, do you have DB&W's shaderMeister? It's quite helpful for spitting out occlusion passes with little fuss.

Ztreem
03-10-2017, 12:47 AM
I really hope (but it doesn't sound like that when I read the blog) they moved the edges to the surface editor so we can shade the edges with pbr materials and use it for material mixers to do simple worn edges on things.

MichaelT
03-10-2017, 01:50 AM
At this point though.. my only interest is the release.

wesleycorgi
03-10-2017, 05:28 AM
I think this is a cool reveal, but I find it odd that LW3DG didn't put the blog post notification in the announcement section. Ditto on the last blog post.

rustythe1
03-10-2017, 05:40 AM
it had been talked about on FB again and lino had already showed some renders of it, there are renders of other things from 2017 if you look around, but as you can see from the thread title is that if they don't post stuff they get negative responses, and if they post stuff they get negative responses, so why waste their time? there was defiantly some cool teasers and nuggets in there though.

50one
03-10-2017, 05:50 AM
it had been talked about on FB again and lino had already showed some renders of it, there are renders of other things from 2017 if you look around, but as you can see from the thread title is that if they don't post stuff they get negative responses, and if they post stuff they get negative responses, so why waste their time? there was defiantly some cool teasers and nuggets in there though.

There's only one way to repair this and blowed up ego's and middle fingers won't help here.

Snosrap
03-10-2017, 10:34 AM
I'm not sure putting up another thread with an outrageous heading like "LightWave is dead" is great for inspiring confidence in the software, especially when it relates to what should be (the new blog post) a positive announcement. It's great news, but there is precious little to discuss on this topic, for me at least. However it certainly answers some of the concerns others have voiced about a photo based renderer. Snosrap, do you have DB&W's shaderMeister? It's quite helpful for spitting out occlusion passes with little fuss.

It is positive and that is why I was so surprised that the forum didn't light up. Maybe this forum thing is dead. :) I'm hearing that renders done in LW Next have already been on FB. I don't get FB so I'm out of the loop.

erikals
03-10-2017, 10:44 AM
nice new feature.

when it comes to quality+ease of use, wouldn't surprise me if LW is the best NPR engine around. (average)

Kaptive
03-10-2017, 01:44 PM
Ya know, and take this how you will (personal opinion and all that), but it wouldn't suprise me if the folks at LW3dG don't really care for this forum too much. I'm sure they'd love to, but the tone in here over the last year hasn't been very supportive of their efforts on what I imagine is a huge and difficult task. They can't win with some folks here, and yes, I'd agree that it is careless thread titles such as this that add to that, sorry snosrap. Reading titles like that just make me groan and turn further away from this place.

The thing is, I wanted to take more interest in posting here a while back, but as a happily self admitted fan of Lightwave I found it a bit tiring listening to the same negativity that rarely takes into account the reality of the gigantic job at hand, the size of the team, and what is realistic. LW isn't dead, but perhaps this forum is... because it isn't much fun, and so response is slow and low. From my point of view, I find it sad, because I loathe and do not use Facebook, so here is one of the very few places to discuss LW.

But listen, I'm not saying you're all miserable dullards, in fact I love seeing the work and activities of some of the folks round here. I'm just seeing them less and less. So my big hope for LW, beyond features and all that jazz, is that this new direction for LW will be its' renaissance, that we'll get a big influx of fresh blood, and that either this.. or even better... a brand new forum(!!) with all the bells and whistles (or at least image friendly) is introduced and we get a new and energised bunch of users... lots of WIP shots, great finished artwork and anims... it'd be great to have that buzz around LW again.

Anyway, who knows, but I just wanted to offer an outside perspective of how this forum feels... or at least felt in the past. As stated above, all of this has caused fatigue I'm sure. LW3DG aren't perfect, marketing and communication for every business is difficult, costly and time consuming at the best of times. But when deep in a massive project, time flies, months can pass by in a blink of an eye. What we see as paint drying, is probably a whirlwind of productivity on the other side.

Thin or no communication usually means one of two things.
1. Nothing is going on.
2. There is too much going on.

I'm always pretty sure it's number 2 when we're talking about LW3DG... all evidence points to that. So I wait, and I already know it'll be worth it... I've already been shown :)
The NPR renders are just what I needed to see, and has me super excited for release. With all the new features they have been showing, I absolutely can't wait to get going! As long as release happens this year, 2017 will be a good year.
Anyway, I hope the forums spirit picks up as we approach release! I don't think anyone here is intentionally miserable, but there is the occasional stink lol.

Stardust
03-10-2017, 01:46 PM
Amazing -er Z ;)

gar26lw
03-10-2017, 02:36 PM
Deplorables ;)

kopperdrake
03-10-2017, 02:37 PM
I suspect there's some right-ness in what you say Kris, I know plenty of decent LWers who don't bother coming on here much anymore, which is a shame because, like yourself, I haven't got the time to use Facebook.

I have an account I started a few months ago purely to look at LW3DG's page (and a random goose page, but that's another story), and yet I hate it as it tries to pull you in in so many ways (relatives wanting to connect so you can see the latest baby shot, how cute their kitten is, what you might think of their new red shoes - aggh!). I'm ashameed to say it, but I ignore every request unless it's LW specific, it's the only way I can stay sane. The only issue is that *everyone* seems to be on the ruddy thing!

bazsa73
03-10-2017, 02:48 PM
I suspect there's some right-ness in what you say Kris, I know plenty of decent LWers who don't bother coming on here much anymore, which is a shame because, like yourself, I haven't got the time to use Facebook.

I have an account I started a few months ago purely to look at LW3DG's page (and a random goose page, but that's another story), and yet I hate it as it tries to pull you in in so many ways (relatives wanting to connect so you can see the latest baby shot, how cute their kitten is, what you might think of their new red shoes - aggh!). I'm ashameed to say it, but I ignore every request unless it's LW specific, it's the only way I can stay sane. The only issue is that *everyone* seems to be on the ruddy thing!
you forgot the meal photos!

djwaterman
03-10-2017, 02:58 PM
I visit the official LW FB page every now and then, but I never see stuff that I haven't already seen elsewhere, is it because I'm not signed up and I am only allowed to see a surface level of stuff? Because people say there are more renders and so on, but I don't see it on there.

jeric_synergy
03-10-2017, 03:00 PM
I really hope (but it doesn't sound like that when I read the blog) they moved the edges to the surface editor so we can shade the edges with pbr materials and use it for material mixers to do simple worn edges on things.

Edges are already in the node editor (almost certain of this), so they should be able to access any shaders available in the node editor.

Ztreem
03-10-2017, 04:27 PM
Edges are already in the node editor (almost certain of this), so they should be able to access any shaders available in the node editor.

It's possible that I missed that feature. The only edges I found in the surface editor is from dpkit and it works good, I just love native solutions. What I want to say is that Lwg should not only look at edges as ink lines it could be used for so much more if it is accessable from the surface editor instead of being an isolated island in object properties.

bobakabob
03-10-2017, 04:47 PM
Ya know, and take this how you will (personal opinion and all that), but it wouldn't suprise me if the folks at LW3dG don't really care for this forum too much. I'm sure they'd love to, but the tone in here over the last year hasn't been very supportive of their efforts on what I imagine is a huge and difficult task. They can't win with some folks here, and yes, I'd agree that it is careless thread titles such as this that add to that, sorry snosrap. Reading titles like that just make me groan and turn further away from this place.

The thing is, I wanted to take more interest in posting here a while back, but as a happily self admitted fan of Lightwave I found it a bit tiring listening to the same negativity that rarely takes into account the reality of the gigantic job at hand, the size of the team, and what is realistic. LW isn't dead, but perhaps this forum is... because it isn't much fun, and so response is slow and low. From my point of view, I find it sad, because I loathe and do not use Facebook, so here is one of the very few places to discuss LW.

But listen, I'm not saying you're all miserable dullards, in fact I love seeing the work and activities of some of the folks round here. I'm just seeing them less and less. So my big hope for LW, beyond features and all that jazz, is that this new direction for LW will be its' renaissance, that we'll get a big influx of fresh blood, and that either this.. or even better... a brand new forum(!!) with all the bells and whistles (or at least image friendly) is introduced and we get a new and energised bunch of users... lots of WIP shots, great finished artwork and anims... it'd be great to have that buzz around LW again.

Anyway, who knows, but I just wanted to offer an outside perspective of how this forum feels... or at least felt in the past. As stated above, all of this has caused fatigue I'm sure. LW3DG aren't perfect, marketing and communication for every business is difficult, costly and time consuming at the best of times. But when deep in a massive project, time flies, months can pass by in a blink of an eye. What we see as paint drying, is probably a whirlwind of productivity on the other side.

Thin or no communication usually means one of two things.
1. Nothing is going on.
2. There is too much going on.

I'm always pretty sure it's number 2 when we're talking about LW3DG... all evidence points to that. So I wait, and I already know it'll be worth it... I've already been shown :)
The NPR renders are just what I needed to see, and has me super excited for release. With all the new features they have been showing, I absolutely can't wait to get going! As long as release happens this year, 2017 will be a good year.
Anyway, I hope the forums spirit picks up as we approach release! I don't think anyone here is intentionally miserable, but there is the occasional stink lol.

Well said, Kaptive, agree with every word. I had the same reaction (groan) when I saw the flippant title of this thread, but looking forward to the new LW release when it's ready.

rustythe1
03-10-2017, 05:13 PM
I visit the official LW FB page every now and then, but I never see stuff that I haven't already seen elsewhere, is it because I'm not signed up and I am only allowed to see a surface level of stuff? Because people say there are more renders and so on, but I don't see it on there.

not on the official pages, like I said you have to look around, so yes if your not signed up you probably wont see it.

shrox
03-10-2017, 05:24 PM
I'm using it so it's not dead.

Snosrap
03-10-2017, 07:06 PM
I'm using it so it's not dead.

Me too and loving it. That new surface panel looks interesting but it would be nice to see the color picker integrated and live.

Surrealist.
03-10-2017, 07:20 PM
Cool features. Another slam dunk selling point.

UnCommonGrafx
03-11-2017, 05:07 AM
Kaptive and others have captured my thoughts: this forum is at the bottom on this site because it tends to drone on about the 'bubble in their belly'.
I find myself more disappointed in posts by long time users. They seem to be the most egregious and it tends to make no sense.

There are ... ways to see the progress, even in this sad arsed forum. Watch who comes around. Who is offering tools and saying what. It becomes real obvious, real fast, that something big is going on and the end (read: public showing) just may come sooner than later.

If you aren't making money or what have you with lightwave, it truly might be dead in your hands.
On a daily basis, I get to see it vibrant and used to grow brain matter.

Julez4001
03-11-2017, 06:10 AM
Anybody notice the volume settings under the edges IN THE FREAKING OBJECT panel?

looks like the smoke, fire and stuff won't beholden to a post effect.

erikals
03-11-2017, 06:25 AM
nah, don't think so.

only means it will affect volumetric HyperVoxels, not generate.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136267&d=1489238712

136267

erikals
03-11-2017, 06:27 AM
this most likely means that the new FiberFX render will affect HyperVoxels as well. if needed / wanted.

hrgiger
03-11-2017, 07:04 AM
Why would it be able to affect hypervoxels? That's an old system. I'm sure that refers to the new volumetric system.

ianr
03-11-2017, 07:58 AM
Maybe LW is dead after all. They posted this -https://blog.lightwave3d.com/2017/02/cel-shading-features/ - great little blog and nobody is talking. :) The animated gif of the surface panel is awesome! Shows some potential real progress in workflows and UI improvements - bravo! Not a cel-shading guy myself but really excited about those UI advancements and edge shading. Maybe we can get some awesome ambient occlusion and curvature shading love too.


Well it's battle fatigue alright with some 4 sure.

A polite link to this forum by LW3DG could have helped.

2 points here:

A) The Nippon Lightwavers in Japan are going to be all over this,

I can't wait to see the Japanese Videos on this ?


B) I do hope Jen H (Miss Celshader) returns to give it a test-drive?


Did need a bigger shout though!

erikals
03-11-2017, 08:06 AM
Why would it be able to affect hypervoxels? That's an old system. I'm sure that refers to the new volumetric system.

isn't the new Volumetric system called HyperVoxels ?
maybe not, anyway. that's what i meant.


“Is this just the next evolution of HyperVoxels?”. The short answer is NO.

i guess you are correct, based on the short answer in the blog. not sure what the "long" answer is.

vonpietro
03-11-2017, 05:44 PM
cel shading in lightwave is already pretty good -

hear is my best efforts !!

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/OJYLw

Snosrap
03-11-2017, 06:41 PM
Thanks for posting that screen grab erikals. That is a real eye opener too!! Looks like we'll get soft shadows with distant lights now!! And it looks like unified sampling is a thing of the past. (I guess they rethought that. :)) And buffer groups. Cool!!

Diepgroen
03-11-2017, 07:38 PM
I visit the official LW FB page every now and then, but I never see stuff that I haven't already seen elsewhere, is it because I'm not signed up and I am only allowed to see a surface level of stuff? Because people say there are more renders and so on, but I don't see it on there.

The facebook group "Lightwavers are everywhere" is a really cool active group. Renders, videos, feedback, tips, inspirations, and the occasional troll which mostly gets ignored. Every friday at 11:30pm GMT there is a live gathering of Lightwavers talking lightwave stuff, via youtube live and google connect. Which is full of humor and people who share tips, tricks and just being social, live on air. Lots of laughter and uniting of Lightwavers in general. Rene Falk Thomasius of the Daft Punk Renders is there, Ryan Roy, Andrew Comb, Steven Scott, the team from Black Holes and lots of other artist unite there and contribute in a more positive and social way. Hope we get you in there Djwaterman :)

CaptainMarlowe
03-12-2017, 03:08 AM
The facebook group "Lightwavers are everywhere" is a really cool active group. Renders, videos, feedback, tips, inspirations, and the occasional troll which mostly gets ignored. Every friday at 11:30pm GMT there is a live gathering of Lightwavers talking lightwave stuff, via youtube live and google connect. Which is full of humor and people who share tips, tricks and just being social, live on air. Lots of laughter and uniting of Lightwavers in general. Rene Falk Thomasius of the Daft Punk Renders is there, Ryan Roy, Andrew Comb, Steven Scott, the team from Black Holes and lots of other artist unite there and contribute in a more positive and social way. Hope we get you in there Djwaterman :)

Exactly. This group is the place to be to share info about LW in a friendly way. It took me a very long time to create a FB account, and I did it almost exclusively for 3D groups. I'm glad I did.

prometheus
03-12-2017, 06:49 AM
- - - Updated - - -


Why would it be able to affect hypervoxels? That's an old system. I'm sure that refers to the new volumetric system.
It may also be only affecting the volumetric lights, and not related to Any type of voxels.

rustythe1
03-12-2017, 07:01 AM
it is a light so its affecting the volumetric items of the scene, how would a light affect a light? as far as we have been lead to believe all the lights will be volumetric so that they work with the PBR as they have had to get rid of the old lighting system, it looks like we still have the different types we had before, and they have kept the ui looking the same so that's all good, you could see the volume effect in some of the early blogs.

prometheus
03-12-2017, 07:39 AM
it is a light so its affecting the volumetric items of the scene, how would a light affect a light? as far as we have been lead to believe all the lights will be volumetric so that they work with the PBR as they have had to get rid of the old lighting system, it looks like we still have the different types we had before, and they have kept the ui looking the same so that's all good, you could see the volume effect in some of the early blogs.

I donīt know..just guessing, but you say light affect a light, itīs not that..itīs a light affecting the volumetrics, which may indicate settings can be controlled to affect the volumetric part of the light, then again..I could be completly wrong....in fact that may be the case.

rustythe1
03-12-2017, 10:39 AM
that's what I am getting at, the lights are volumetric all the time because of the PBR if I understand it correctly, the renderer works in a different way this time, you probably will not add things like god rays to lights them selves, but rather create a volume atmosphere/fog then include/exclude lights from that volume, if you look there are no volumetric light options in the light dialogue as before, just the ability to turn it off from volume, if you look at the very early blogs you can see effects like godrays directly in the renders.

prometheus
03-12-2017, 10:43 AM
that's what I am getting at, the lights are volumetric all the time because of the PBR if I understand it correctly, the renderer works in a different way this time, you probably will not add things like god rays to lights them selves, but rather create a volume atmosphere/fog then include/exclude lights from that volume, if you look there are no volumetric light options in the light dialogue as before, just the ability to turn it off from volume, if you look at the very early blogs you can see effects like godrays directly in the renders.

The lightwave Logo volumetrics I guess, maybe...not sure, similar effect is available today with textured shadows, and godrays can be acheived with the hv volume item trick...but you may be right as well, this may be a completly new set of light and rendering.

rustythe1
03-12-2017, 11:24 AM
it was already stated that the old lights were gone and new ones in place, it was not a guess, the new volumetric supports, scattering, absorption, density and emission, and it was already stated that you will no longer have to use texture/volumetric/hyper voxel tricks to create effects like godrays, the PBR by definition will be exactly as it would in real life, so no more trying to find settings and ways around (sorry your years of hard testing in HV may now be redundant if you upgrade :) ) because you will just feed it the correct settings to that material/volume and it will render as it should,

prometheus
03-12-2017, 11:34 AM
it was already stated that the old lights were gone and new ones in place, it was not a guess, the new volumetric supports, scattering, absorption, density and emission, and it was already stated that you will no longer have to use texture/volumetric/hyper voxel tricks to create effects like godrays, the PBR by definition will be exactly as it would in real life, so no more trying to find settings and ways around (sorry your years of hard testing in HV may now be redundant if you upgrade :) ) because you will just feed it the correct settings to that material/volume and it will render as it should,

Yeah...I knew some of that, but I want it to render as I want, not as it should :)
Seriously..that is the way to go I think...I donīt think that would limit oneself not being able to adjust to your special style.
I can only hope that me and others painstakingly testings may have played some sort of role in terms of them actually working out something special that works more like the real thing, it really doesnīt matter, the important thing is that we can get something better for that kind of stuff.

pming
03-12-2017, 09:28 PM
Hiya!

I just popped my head into the Daz3D Forums to see what was going on in there (I own both Hexagon and Carrara...yeah...I'm a 3D program junkie...). You know Lightwave is in trouble when people on the Carrara Forum lump Lightwave in with "programs that are basically abandoned by their owners". Made me both chuckle a little, and die a little bit inside, at the same time. It was an..."odd"... feeling.

I resigned myself to patiently waiting for LW to get released when it get's released. I've got a lot of other 3D programs to use and play with (3D program junkie, remember? ;) ), until I get the email.

bazsa73
03-13-2017, 05:23 AM
Hiya!

I just popped my head into the Daz3D Forums to see what was going on in there (I own both Hexagon and Carrara...yeah...I'm a 3D program junkie...). You know Lightwave is in trouble when people on the Carrara Forum lump Lightwave in with "programs that are basically abandoned by their owners". Made me both chuckle a little, and die a little bit inside, at the same time. It was an..."odd"... feeling.

I resigned myself to patiently waiting for LW to get released when it get's released. I've got a lot of other 3D programs to use and play with (3D program junkie, remember? ;) ), until I get the email.
In my former and present workplace everyone said "yeah Lightwave, that has been discontinued right?" No I said, that was Softimage. But they are the ignorant Max people, outside their universe is only Maya and they heard about Blender which is bad.

50one
03-13-2017, 06:53 AM
In my former and present workplace everyone said "yeah Lightwave, that has been discontinued right?" No I said, that was Softimage. But they are the ignorant Max people, outside their universe is only Maya and they heard about Blender which is bad.

At least they know that ot exist. I work with guys who have no idea what that is and kinda heard something about Modo, at least few of them.

Signal to Noise
03-13-2017, 07:55 AM
I propose that anyone who creates and/or perpetuates these "LW is dead" posts should be charged DOUBLE the upgrade price on the 'next' LW build version.
:twak:

ernpchan
03-13-2017, 08:02 AM
... outside their universe is only Maya and they heard about Blender which is bad.

I don't blame AD users for not knowing about LW. They probably spend most of their brain cells devoted to deciphering their license policy.

Subscription.... Maintenance.... Perpetual.... :bangwall:

erikals
03-13-2017, 09:44 AM
In my former and present workplace everyone said "yeah Lightwave, that has been discontinued right?" No I said, that was Softimage. But they are the ignorant Max people, outside their universe is only Maya and they heard about Blender which is bad.

many artists only know 2 packages, Maya & Max.

and quite few are generalists.

most have a narrow field of view.

bazsa73
03-13-2017, 11:03 AM
But good in the bad is that here in my new place the management told me I can use whatever software I'm comfortable with, they only care about the output quality.
So there is a maya guys, some uses max and there's a C4D+Houdini "brain" bloke.

lardbros
03-13-2017, 12:00 PM
I don't blame AD users for not knowing about LW. They probably spend most of their brain cells devoted to deciphering their license policy.

Subscription.... Maintenance.... Perpetual.... :bangwall:

Haha... that made me laugh! :D
Our Autodesk reseller was only saying 6 months ago that they were only JUST getting a handle on the license stuff after it last changed, and it's changed YET AGAIN! Hilarious!
The licensing woes of Autodesk go even deeper than that too, they have some tools which are ONLY available if you have an internet connection, and some which no one even knows if they do a network license of. I've asked their support, our reseller, even Jamie Gwilliam (who is the manager for UK territory... but he never responded to my three emails).

I hope Newtek stay with the current licensing, I like it.


But good in the bad is that here in my new place the management told me I can use whatever software I'm comfortable with, they only care about the output quality.
So there is a maya guys, some uses max and there's a C4D+Houdini "brain" bloke.

Many places are the same, which is refreshing... we have Mudbox, 3dCoat, 3dsMax, Maya and a LightWave user. Ultimately, the models are all polygons, and the textures are all universal, any tool can be used for any purpose. I take Max stuff into LW and I bring LW stuff into 3dsMax all the time.



As for Lino's new post, it looks incredible! Cel shading in the viewport, matching VPR too... that's such a genius idea! I noticed the volume setting under the lights too... must be for the new volumetrics stuff... coooool! :)

jeric_synergy
03-13-2017, 12:12 PM
Ultimately, the models are all polygons, and the textures are all universal,

Really? Is it all UV'd bitmaps? I thought procedurals were a real stumbling block. ?? Do tell!

(I could be 'wayyy behind the curve on this one.)

prometheus
03-13-2017, 01:10 PM
As for Lino's new post, it looks incredible! Cel shading in the viewport, matching VPR too... that's such a genius idea! I noticed the volume setting under the lights too... must be for the new volumetrics stuff... coooool! :)

I Personally would be more excited about ambient occlusion in opengl if that happened, and bloom, glow corona filters, or at least bloom in vpr, Havenīt really had any use for celshading so far..and doubt I will, that said..I understand that it is a huge userbase that needs that, and I recognize the importance of Cel shading in the viewport, I can imagine many of those manga or others stylized render guys can actually make a preview directly derived from opengl in realtime, if that actually could transcend to actually not having to do a final render for such stylized renders..I really donīt know?

lardbros
03-13-2017, 01:41 PM
Really? Is it all UV'd bitmaps? I thought procedurals were a real stumbling block. ?? Do tell!

(I could be 'wayyy behind the curve on this one.)

Nah, I'm sure you're not... We always texture and bake, that's the "secret" I guess. Paint, or use procedurals, UV then bake... Or just use 3dcoat/mudbox etc.

jeric_synergy
03-13-2017, 03:39 PM
Nah, I'm sure you're not... We always texture and bake, that's the "secret" I guess. Paint, or use procedurals, UV then bake... Or just use 3dcoat/mudbox etc.
OK, that's more what I thought.

At some point though (perhaps this isn't a REAL issue) , but one gets painted into a corner where if you RE-did something you'd lose some data-- that is, perfect interchangebility w/all work preserved is still a dream, no?

On a practical level it may not matter, in a well-run workflow.

lardbros
03-13-2017, 03:58 PM
OK, that's more what I thought.

At some point though (perhaps this isn't a REAL issue) , but one gets painted into a corner where if you RE-did something you'd lose some data-- that is, perfect interchangebility w/all work preserved is still a dream, no?

On a practical level it may not matter, in a well-run workflow.

Not sure about losing data as such... generally, if you've UV'd/painted/baked etc and move it to another application, it's pretty easy to go back and edit. Whether it's in 3dCoat or LW, or 3dsMax. If you just want to edit textures, you can do that and then just re-export the textures on their own.

We use version control tools, so you always have the older version of the models/textures if you've submitted them for someone else to work with anyway. (We use Perforce, in case you wondered what version management tool we used.)

shrox
03-13-2017, 04:30 PM
In my former and present workplace everyone said "yeah Lightwave, that has been discontinued right?" No I said, that was Softimage. But they are the ignorant Max people, outside their universe is only Maya and they heard about Blender which is bad.

I wouldn't call them professionals really...

pming
03-13-2017, 04:48 PM
Hiya!


But they are the ignorant Max people, outside their universe is only Maya and they heard about Blender which is bad.

Literally LOL'ed at that! :D

I sort of see MAX folk as sort of...: "Cult of MAX. They are the ancient ones who learned 3D from the Great DOS. Over the centuries, they have developed powerful magical scripts to conjure virtually any tool that they can use in their mysterious works. Some say that the Cult of MAX have remained hidden, sequestered away high up in the Towers of Autodesk, where they have lost all connection to the real world below. To the Cult of MAX, anything worth doing can be done from within 3DSMAX, and so they know nothing of other mystial arts like Lightwave, C4D, or MODO. Worse still, they have been told to be wary of any and all strangers speaking of the dreaded Open Source! In particular they are to flee from any followers of Blender, for the Devotees of Blender are fanatics and even speaking with them can drive a MAX'ite mad!"

shrox
03-13-2017, 05:25 PM
Hiya!



Literally LOL'ed at that! :D

I sort of see MAX folk as sort of...: "Cult of MAX. They are the ancient ones who learned 3D from the Great DOS. Over the centuries, they have developed powerful magical scripts to conjure virtually any tool that they can use in their mysterious works. Some say that the Cult of MAX have remained hidden, sequestered away high up in the Towers of Autodesk, where they have lost all connection to the real world below. To the Cult of MAX, anything worth doing can be done from within 3DSMAX, and so they know nothing of other mystial arts like Lightwave, C4D, or MODO. Worse still, they have been told to be wary of any and all strangers speaking of the dreaded Open Source! In particular they are to flee from any followers of Blender, for the Devotees of Blender are fanatics and even speaking with them can drive a MAX'ite mad!"

I was using 3D Studio at Rainbow in Phoenix, when we started beta testing Max. I hated it, fortunately I got DEC Alpha on loan from Amblin with LW 4.

erikals
03-13-2017, 08:29 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngCult of MAX. They are the ancient ones who learned 3D from the Great DOS. Over the centuries, they have developed powerful magical scripts to conjure virtually any tool that they can use in their mysterious works. Some say that the Cult of MAX have remained hidden, sequestered away high up in the Towers of Autodesk, where they have lost all connection to the real world below. To the Cult of MAX, anything worth doing can be done from within 3DSMAX, and so they know nothing of other mystial arts like Lightwave, C4D, or MODO. Worse still, they have been told to be wary of any and all strangers speaking of the dreaded Open Source! In particular they are to flee from any followers of Blender, for the Devotees of Blender are fanatics and even speaking with them can drive a MAX'ite mad!http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png

heard about this, i think it's a true story.

shrox
03-13-2017, 08:54 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngCult of MAX. They are the ancient ones who learned 3D from the Great DOS. Over the centuries, they have developed powerful magical scripts to conjure virtually any tool that they can use in their mysterious works. Some say that the Cult of MAX have remained hidden, sequestered away high up in the Towers of Autodesk, where they have lost all connection to the real world below. To the Cult of MAX, anything worth doing can be done from within 3DSMAX, and so they know nothing of other mystial arts like Lightwave, C4D, or MODO. Worse still, they have been told to be wary of any and all strangers speaking of the dreaded Open Source! In particular they are to flee from any followers of Blender, for the Devotees of Blender are fanatics and even speaking with them can drive a MAX'ite mad!http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png

heard about this, i think it's a true story.

Yes, I started with DOS too. About all I can remember is "dir"...

fablefox
03-13-2017, 09:48 PM
Yes, I started with DOS too. About all I can remember is "dir"...

how bout cd ..

besides, edit in order to manipulate autoexec.bat and config.sys just to make that special game works...

erikals
03-13-2017, 09:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tNsztXDpyo


ipconfig, had forgotten...

samurai_x
03-13-2017, 10:00 PM
many artists only know 2 packages, Maya & Max.

and quite few are generalists.

most have a narrow field of view.


Quite a lot are generalists.
These days people are multi app users, too. Which can be both positive and negative.
Generalists means they're not really the best at something they just know how to do most stuff.

A specialist will always....

Sculpt great looking characters in zbrush
Animate pixar quality in maya
Render the most realistic scenes in vray.

erikals
03-13-2017, 10:03 PM
Quite a lot are generalists.
you might be right, was quite some time ago what i refereed to. more people are generalists these days.


Generalists means they're not really the best at something they just know how to do most stuff.
still, ain't that long ago (relative) people would look at the modeler doing additional UVing and Texturing as an Oracle.
and now they do Sculpting too.

bazsa73
03-14-2017, 12:01 AM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngCult of MAX. They are the ancient ones who learned 3D from the Great DOS. Over the centuries, they have developed powerful magical scripts to conjure virtually any tool that they can use in their mysterious works. Some say that the Cult of MAX have remained hidden, sequestered away high up in the Towers of Autodesk, where they have lost all connection to the real world below. To the Cult of MAX, anything worth doing can be done from within 3DSMAX, and so they know nothing of other mystial arts like Lightwave, C4D, or MODO. Worse still, they have been told to be wary of any and all strangers speaking of the dreaded Open Source! In particular they are to flee from any followers of Blender, for the Devotees of Blender are fanatics and even speaking with them can drive a MAX'ite mad!http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png

heard about this, i think it's a true story.

I know a guy who is exactly like your description. He always says: "I have a script for that" "In max it's 2 only clicks" etc...

jeric_synergy
03-14-2017, 02:11 AM
how bout cd ..
LOL, that's EXACTLY what I was going to type.... :D

samurai_x
03-14-2017, 05:21 AM
ain't that long ago (relative) people would look at the modeler doing additional UVing and Texturing as an Oracle.
and now they do Sculpting too.

Maybe more than 10 years ago that was the case.
An employee who has 5 years working experience should know how to do those basic tasks in at least 3 appz now. They're the same technique just with a different UI per app.
And he/she should know zbrush, too. There's no excuse, its so much easier to learn with all the free youtube videos today that are as good as Gnomon tutorials.
I came across BornCG's blender channel and thought if I watched his tutorials back then I wouldn't have struggled so much with blender a few years ago.
Pixelfondue channel is doing the same thing for modo.
Sadly lightwave quality tutorials have dropped recently.

shrox
03-14-2017, 01:53 PM
how bout cd ..

besides, edit in order to manipulate autoexec.bat and config.sys just to make that special game works...

I remember the "c" and the "d" for that one...

scallahan1
03-14-2017, 02:13 PM
Hi,
I still use the command prompt fairly often. Latest versions of Windows will let you fullscreen it with Alt-Enter again. Yay. Nerds rejoice! :)

Photogram
03-14-2017, 04:30 PM
I propose that anyone who creates and/or perpetuates these "LW is dead" posts should be charged DOUBLE the upgrade price on the 'next' LW build version.
:twak:

bUMP !

Whelkn
03-14-2017, 09:16 PM
I propose that anyone who creates and/or perpetuates these "LW is dead" posts should be charged DOUBLE the upgrade price on the 'next' LW build version.
:twak:


:-)

fablefox
03-15-2017, 09:09 PM
I know a guy who is exactly like your description. He always says: "I have a script for that" "In max it's 2 only clicks" etc...

Ha ha ha. But that was exactly MAX unique selling point. The SDK you use for plug-in development is the one they use internally, and you can script most (if not all?) part of MAX.

And they actually powerful and easy to use.

http://docs.autodesk.com/3DSMAX/14/ENU/MAXScript%20Help%202012/

jeric_synergy
03-16-2017, 01:43 AM
Something LW continually got wrong, over and freeking over: functions not well exposed in the SDK.

lardbros
03-16-2017, 02:00 AM
Something LW continually got wrong, over and freeking over: functions not well exposed in the SDK.

It's the same with max script though.
The guys at work are constantly complaining at missing functions or bad documentation, or bugs with max script.
The grass is always greener... There is no perfect SDK, or software solution.

samurai_x
03-16-2017, 08:17 AM
It's the same with max script though.
The guys at work are constantly complaining at missing functions or bad documentation, or bugs with max script.
The grass is always greener... There is no perfect SDK, or software solution.

Have they seen the lightwave sdk or know it?
Their only point of reference is what they know. Lol.

lardbros
03-16-2017, 01:18 PM
Oh... Haha... Lol!
But my point stands... The LW SDK is missing stuff in the PRIS documentation, and the Virtools SDK was crap, as is the max script one, as it's missing tonnes of stuff too.

Not sticking up for LW, just saying, every plugin maker is in the same ****** boat.
Good coders find the problems, then report them to the devs, then they get fixed.

jeric_synergy
03-17-2017, 01:35 AM
Good coders find the problems, ..

That lets ME off the hook.

Daphne
03-17-2017, 04:14 PM
The facebook group "Lightwavers are everywhere" is a really cool active group. Renders, videos, feedback, tips, inspirations, and the occasional troll which mostly gets ignored. Every friday at 11:30pm GMT there is a live gathering of Lightwavers talking lightwave stuff, via youtube live and google connect. Which is full of humor and people who share tips, tricks and just being social, live on air. Lots of laughter and uniting of Lightwavers in general. Rene Falk Thomasius of the Daft Punk Renders is there, Ryan Roy, Andrew Comb, Steven Scott, the team from Black Holes and lots of other artist unite there and contribute in a more positive and social way. Hope we get you in there Djwaterman :)

Hadn't heard about this group until just now. I have an account on FB but I don't have time to look at 1200 recipes, videos of someone's kid walking through the house or what people's cats do in their spare time so I am not active on there. Hopefully I can figure out how to join in for this though.

Ernpchan's comment was hilarious: "I don't blame AD users for not knowing about LW. They probably spend most of their brain cells devoted to deciphering their license policy.

Subscription.... Maintenance.... Perpetual.... "

jeric_synergy
03-18-2017, 01:16 AM
Every friday at 11:30pm GMT there is a live gathering of Lightwavers talking lightwave stuff, via youtube live and google connect.

Second me as someone who never heard of this.

prometheus
03-18-2017, 04:37 AM
I wonder what impact the lack of maintenance of this forum has? lack of updates, enhancements and actual communication etc that has an impact on the General Gossip that lightwave is sort of dead, by that I mean if there were more communication in here, the gossip may have been different...or maybe not, just wondering..or if it just is because of the long development or simply the old troll of users of the larger software that simply isnīt versed in whaīs going on in other 3d packages.

So simply put, is this forums declination adding to the gossip fuel of lightwave being dead?
Hmm..feels like I am repeating the same question in various ways ..just because Im unsure my message is getting through correctly:)

rustythe1
03-18-2017, 05:55 AM
doubt it, forums are just not what they used to be, in 2015 the forum often had around 2-3000 active users a day, and this mornings statistic is... 14. and on facebook, 35,000 people mentioned lightwave today

gerry_g
03-18-2017, 07:43 AM
yup amazed how many LW users I see elsewhere who I have never seen on the forums, but then I go to ArtStation and I see tons of Modo users I never see on the Modo forums, things are more fragmented these days

ernpchan
03-18-2017, 12:05 PM
LightWave Next showed up on cgchannel with an article about the blog. So that's good. But the first comment on the article was asking if people still use LW. So I guess the net result is zero?:stumped:

50one
03-18-2017, 01:48 PM
doubt it, forums are just not what they used to be, in 2015 the forum often had around 2-3000 active users a day, and this mornings statistic is... 14. and on facebook, 35,000 people mentioned lightwave today

Are you sure Lightwave 3D"? Cause there are tons of products called "Lightwave"

papou
03-18-2017, 04:44 PM
i can't believe they show that coloured explosion smoke again... masochistic communication.

rustythe1
03-18-2017, 06:24 PM
Are you sure Lightwave 3D"? Cause there are tons of products called "Lightwave"

yes, lightwave and 3D together,

djwaterman
03-18-2017, 06:58 PM
i can't believe they show that coloured explosion smoke again... masochistic communication.

Did they? Because Matt did that very nice correction smoke render and they should've swapped it with the other one, seems such a waste that someone on the development team does a better render but it doesn't get used.

jwiede
03-19-2017, 01:02 PM
doubt it, forums are just not what they used to be, in 2015 the forum often had around 2-3000 active users a day, and this mornings statistic is... 14. and on facebook, 35,000 people mentioned lightwave today

Whatever's happening here clearly isn't "generally impacting all 3D product forums proportionately". Were "loss of interest in forum use" a general thing, it should affect other 3D product forums' activity at the same proportionate level as LW's forum has been affected. In reality, though, other 3D products' forum activity numbers haven't dropped by nearly as great a proportion (if at all) as the LW forum activity has dropped in the last two to three years.

rustythe1
03-19-2017, 01:59 PM
actually I sort have to disagree, sites like foundation 3d, cg architect, cgtalk and a lot of others have been declining drastically, poor old foundation that once was one of the best forums out there has got to just a handful of diehard users.
it may be true that some product forums may be more active as there is not as much of a response on social media.

rustythe1
03-20-2017, 02:18 AM
also worth noting, the main LW product FB page has 20,000+ followers where as Modo have 400, maya has 500, 3d max only has an unofficial page and the last official post on that was October last year although it has slightly more followers than LW, but only 10,000 more, I would have expected that number to be higher, maybe it just shows LW users want to be more social than autodesk/other app users, auto desk only really use their social pages for advertising and not engaging the public like LW group do,

hrgiger
03-20-2017, 02:47 AM
The foundry's website isn't exactly bustling these days either. And their re-design of the site has worsened it.

rustythe1
03-20-2017, 05:13 AM
I think social media paints a good and different picture than the forums do, the more you look at the statistics the brighter LWs future looks, its about level pickings with Zbrush, only just bellow blender who I would expected to be a lot more social, there are also the unofficial LW groups which again beat the MODO maya groups by large margins,

50one
03-20-2017, 06:13 AM
I think social media paints a good and different picture than the forums do, the more you look at the statistics the brighter LWs future looks, its about level pickings with Zbrush, only just bellow blender who I would expected to be a lot more social, there are also the unofficial LW groups which again beat the MODO maya groups by large margins,


Worth to mention is also the noise to signal ratio within followers, having 10000 followers on FB is amazeballs but a lot people there, follow for no reason, look fir jobs etc. How many of them are active users who invested or invest into software?


That's my observation based on the past couple of years working indirectly with folks from social media industry.

I have looked into FB LW account few times and not surprisingly it was prety much the same folks who hang around in here, maybe couple more unfamiliar faces(to me at least).


Maya is much more widely adopted by folks who are older and probably don't care or don't have time to spend it on FB. That's kinda me included, work, family, spending weekends away and I have no idea how people have time to waste it on social media be it twitter, facebook or whatever.


To me forums are much better format to catch up and post info that you can always find some time later on.

Chris S. (Fez)
03-20-2017, 07:08 AM
The foundry's website isn't exactly bustling these days either. And their re-design of the site has worsened it.

I used to glance at the Modo forums daily for news and opinions. Not since the re-design.

50one
03-20-2017, 07:58 AM
I used to glance at the Modo forums daily for news and opinions. Not since the re-design.

I know that the new design didn't go down well.
However the above statement is as crazy as "I'm not buying Porsches anymore since they refurbished their dealer's office";)


But I agree it lost the momentum...

Wickedpup
03-20-2017, 09:39 AM
I used to glance at the Modo forums daily for news and opinions. Not since the re-design.
Iīm guessing youīre not on Facebook then....? :D

erikals
03-20-2017, 10:21 AM
The foundry's website isn't exactly bustling these days either. And their re-design of the site has worsened it.

yeah, whattup with that Modo forum design, disappointed... :/

Chris S. (Fez)
03-20-2017, 12:27 PM
I know that the new design didn't go down well.
However the above statement is as crazy as "I'm not buying Porsches anymore since they refurbished their dealer's office";)


But I agree it lost the momentum...

Well, key word was "glance". The old forums allowed me to quickly take in the topics of the day. I find the new Modo forums inefficient and messy. Given the precious few postings since the swap, it seems I'm not the only one. Doesn't mean I don't support the company and software.

I rarely post anything anywhere anyway. Perhaps the Modo forums will pick up once 11 is announced or released.

prometheus
03-20-2017, 01:17 PM
Whatever's happening here clearly isn't "generally impacting all 3D product forums proportionately". Were "loss of interest in forum use" a general thing, it should affect other 3D product forums' activity at the same proportionate level as LW's forum has been affected. In reality, though, other 3D products' forum activity numbers haven't dropped by nearly as great a proportion (if at all) as the LW forum activity has dropped in the last two to three years.

Thatīs kind of the same as my suspecious thoughts on it as well, itīs probably a mish mash of the lw group actually being more active there, which in turn makes users feel the need to go there, and go less here..and the lack of communication here, itīs probably all related.







yeah, whattup with that Modo forum design, disappointed... :/


Huh...have to visit it and see, otherwise the gallery section was superior before to what we had here, and thus I rather go there to look at 3d works than here, but if it has gotten that worse, then I am better of not visiting it..as well as reduce time here on the forum and skip facebook, and voila...I have more time for actuall hobby work, or do tutorials now with a voice since I finally got me a headset.

DrStrik9
03-20-2017, 01:47 PM
I suspect that, like the Core debacle, LW3D dev team may have bitten off more than they could easily chew, with the rewrite of the most basic elements of what any 3D app must address. (I'm no developer, so this is only a guess.) There are MANY separate parts to LW, many of them written years ago, many of them using "easy way out" methods, and each one must be adapted to any new basic stuff. I imagine the job would be endlessly HUGE.

In light of these probabilities, I imagine we're in for a much longer wait than we anticipated at the beginning of this journey. I just hope LW3DG can survive the financial stress of it.

CaptainMarlowe
03-20-2017, 02:09 PM
actually I sort have to disagree, sites like foundation 3d, cg architect, cgtalk and a lot of others have been declining drastically, poor old foundation that once was one of the best forums out there has got to just a handful of diehard users.
it may be true that some product forums may be more active as there is not as much of a response on social media.

+1
I sure don't know about how C4D forums perform, but if I take into consideration the ones I use to fequent, almost all of them have declined or died in the last years. This is not related to Lighwtave, for sure. In France, there are almost no 3D forums left without more than an a few regular users when there were quite a lot ten years ago. I meet much more more creativity and help on FaceBook than on any forum, now, even if it took me a lot of time to create a FB account. But now, I'm glad I did.
Maybe the forums that can use tapatalk on mobile devices managed to keep a community, like 3D-coat, I don't know.

fablefox
03-20-2017, 02:14 PM
Well, key word was "glance". The old forums allowed me to quickly take in the topics of the day. I find the new Modo forums inefficient and messy. Given the precious few postings since the swap, it seems I'm not the only one. Doesn't mean I don't support the company and software.

I rarely post anything anywhere anyway. Perhaps the Modo forums will pick up once 11 is announced or released.

I agree as so was I.

For me back then (as proud owner of 401) it is a place I hang out after being shadowbanned at CGTalk. (if you search my post at cgtalk, it will not mentioned banned under my username, but I can no longer post there). But after the redesign, I hang out at blenderartist more. I guess I'm old school in this regard, having active participant at forums back in 1998ish.

But yeah, I notice that forum participation has ... withered ...? due to social media and old people retired...

Anyway, this year I have a budget for an upgrade (and just purchased allegromithic (sp?) texture tool. i can't wait to see what modo and lw have in store.

erikals
03-20-2017, 03:56 PM
gallery section was superior
that might be, i'm an info hunter though, so Gallery is often last stop.


or do tutorials now with a voice since I finally got me a headset.

three kings!!! :king: :king: :king:

erikals
03-20-2017, 04:00 PM
In light of these probabilities, I imagine we're in for a much longer wait than we anticipated at the beginning of this journey. I just hope LW3DG can survive the financial stress of it.

3 weeks ago, speculation from a LWG member was that it would be out within 3 months.
lets C. :)

as far as i recall the owner of NT is damn wealthy guy, so don't think there should be a problem.

jwiede
03-20-2017, 06:10 PM
As of tomorrow, it'll be five weeks since Lino posted his comment (on Feb 14th).

erikals
03-20-2017, 07:57 PM
ah, thought it was less..

samurai_x
03-20-2017, 09:23 PM
The foundry's website isn't exactly bustling these days either. And their re-design of the site has worsened it.

That redesign was awful. The TF forum is like an apple product website.

bazsa73
03-20-2017, 10:40 PM
That color scheme is way too light, hurts the eye of the average tired 3D guy.

prometheus
03-21-2017, 12:24 PM
lw is dead off topic..
But what on earth did foundry do with the fontīs ? Itīs all jagged all over the place, and the rest..nah, found it difficult to navigate fast and easy to the modo forums, and it looks dull.

Surrealist.
03-21-2017, 01:57 PM
Modo's forums are fine. Keeping up with modern design style (which is understated) and I like it. Also works nice on a small mobile device. Makes sites like this look like yesterday's news. The current design style is understatement with emphasis on the content rather than the presentation of the content which is just distracting. Like this site is.;)

This site is falling behind. Younger people I expect are what is driving the understated look which no doubt comes from market research. Before you over 50 (I am 58 this month) and even some over 60, crowd get your depends in a wad, think about the larger picture here. ;)

Attracting new talent to LightWave. Yes? Is that the plan? Should be.

If not, then I think we should shift the discussion to the fact that it is not LW software that is dying or nearly dead.... just saying.

Schwyhart
03-21-2017, 08:55 PM
I think The Foundry built their own forum from scratch. LW uses vBulletin, which you can see at the bottom of this page. Currently, LW3DG uses 4.x, so maybe it'd feel more current if they upgraded to the latest version.
I personally have no problem with LWs forum design. I used to like MODO's, but it's horrible now. I'm not that old, so I'd like to think I still know what young people like :)

samurai_x
03-21-2017, 09:47 PM
Modo's forums are fine.

Not fine and that's speaking as an actual modo user.

http://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/130324/this-forum-is-slowly

http://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/129659/the-new-webpage-is-catastrophic

Surrealist.
03-21-2017, 11:41 PM
So they have a bunch of grumpy old 50 + codgers over there too. Apple does not fall to far it seems. :D

But seriously. Look around you. People are mobile. These small devices are driving what goes into graphics and web design.

Bulletin 5

http://www.vbulletin.com/en/themes/

The designs we see for web today have to work well on mobile devices. It is not even an option anymore. It is an absolute must. The old version of vBulletin (the one they are using here) is horrible on a phone or tablet. Just nasty bad. Does not play well on a small device and that is a sin today. ;)

samurai_x
03-22-2017, 12:00 AM
So they have a bunch of grumpy old 50 + codgers over there too. Apple does not fall to far it seems. :D

But seriously. Look around you. People are mobile. These small devices are driving what goes into graphics and web design.


You're 58. I'm no where near your age. So... far from grumpy.
But that website is not efficient as a forum. Its the blender3d of forums. Exaggerating.

And I'm always mobile even in the 30 countries I've visited. I LOL when people say they don't have fb today(no friends huh, or too old with old friends not into fb :D). Just kidding.

samurai_x
03-22-2017, 12:10 AM
Look around you. People are mobile. These small devices are driving what goes into graphics and web design.

Have you just started noticing this? That idea is a decade too late.
People have been mobile and internet savvy before smart phones were mainstream.

Before Ios and android, we were using Foma for mobile phones for surfing and doing face chats more than a decade ago.
The US was really behind that time.

Surrealist.
03-22-2017, 09:01 AM
Nice try. But I am certian you are well aware of the recent proliferation I am referring to. Not taking the bait for the sake of argument.

bazsa73
03-22-2017, 11:00 AM
Have you just started noticing this? That idea is a decade too late.
People have been mobile and internet savvy before smart phones were mainstream.

Before Ios and android, we were using Foma for mobile phones for surfing and doing face chats more than a decade ago.
The US was really behind that time.
Then you must be NARITA BOOOOOOY :D

prometheus
03-22-2017, 11:25 AM
Modo's forums are fine. Keeping up with modern design style (which is understated) and I like it.g.


I am having a hard time following the thoughts of .."modern design style" in case the new modern design style would be the kind of horrible jagged fonts all over the site,
In such case..I guess my Title under my Avatar Name is still valid for my views on some things.

jwiede
03-22-2017, 11:37 AM
I've been highly critical of TF's new forum design and implementation, but I'll certainly give credit where due: TF did a really good job making it every bit as accessible from mobile devices as from desktops. I still wish they'd offer a light-on-dark version, and believe there's still too much wasted space on modern-sized desktop screens, but in terms of accommodating mobile devices I agree the TF web team did a really good job (on what's a fairly tricky problem, all told).

gerry_g
03-22-2017, 01:53 PM
Personally I love the new Foundry site, that it woks great on all mobile devices is partly why, the other IS the white space which from a design point of view is very important, when I used to design print for a living I would dread client meeting as they would imediatly point to any white space and say "oh look there's a gap there maybe we can squeeze something extra in", nobody gets white space, nobody is comfortable with white space other than designers is the conclusion I have come to after some forty odd years of practicing design, I find that rather depressing.

jeric_synergy
03-22-2017, 04:31 PM
Well, if nobody 'gets' it, is it really that important?

I've always found Apple layout to be twee.

samurai_x
03-22-2017, 09:13 PM
Nice try. But I am certian you are well aware of the recent proliferation I am referring to. Not taking the bait for the sake of argument.

What bait? You're old that's it :D
Even my grandma has FB and posts her trips to hawaii.

Chris S. (Fez)
03-22-2017, 09:46 PM
Whatever. I like Modo. I don't like the Modo forums because they no longer feel like forums. Simple enough.

hrgiger
03-23-2017, 11:27 AM
the modo forum is better now that i discovered you can display all the modo subforums on a single page by default instead of first having to filter out the nuke, mari, etc,... sections. i personally dont really like the new format but its usable and thats all i care about.

prometheus
03-29-2017, 02:33 PM
What bait? You're old that's it :D
Even my grandma has FB and posts her trips to hawaii.

Itīs just the crowd following the masses, wether or not it is good or not?..well, even my old demented father is on facebook and drools like many other elders.:D
Wether or not they indeed know what they are doing..or are aware of what they are doing..the story doesnīt tell.

REFUSE FACEBOOK