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erikals
02-19-2017, 06:45 AM
hi, just wondering what your opinions are as far as LW icons & global functions


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV03phmk-TA

fishhead
02-19-2017, 08:27 AM
To me without a doubt: less is more...
I still find an icon driven interface very rarely userfriendly at all... I often enough have a hard time deciphering what 16x16 pixel buttons with weird (even worse coloured) dots and lines mean - especially when you have to deal with a program that you do not use on a daily basis. (well, once you know it on in and out, you rarely ever need the icons anymore, because you know the hotkeys, right?).

I always loved Lightwave for the clear, elegant and (except a few panels maybe) IMHO uncluttered GUI approach. It has by far the most pleasing to look at, if you ask me (what you kinda did... ;-} )
just my 2cents...

erikals
02-19-2017, 10:59 AM
true, it can become cluttered,
think i'm going for another idea, a secondary semi-transparent Ui,
accessed my middleclick. (hidden after user-activation) (click)

might make it an AHK function, we'll see...

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136047&d=1487527169

136047 thumbnail

Kryslin
02-19-2017, 12:13 PM
I would chose a larger image size than 16 x 16; on a HD monitor, that's almost invisible. Rhino uses an icon based UI, and I find myself using the console more than the UI when I need to model something there. I think 32 x 32 is the new "Windows small" icon, with 64 x 64 being the 'large' size.

That being said, I do like LW's UI (with some caveats and exceptions); It's simple and direct. The mechanisms, however, need to be brought into the 21st century...

prometheus
02-19-2017, 02:42 PM
As far as icons in the viewports, I really donīt care for that delete 1 point etc you showed, not really grid snap either, what I Do want to see though, that is icons that are connected to what is shown in viewport, so that grid icon snap icon I would like to see as just a simple grid on off icon or text saying so for each viewport rather than going through display options, why not, itīs not gonna make lightwave messy, it will make it faster and easier to set a grid on off for desired viewport.

The other big thing, I rather see the display options as icons such as shaded, wire, texture, weight etc...why, it will increase the workflow speed with some milliseconds and ultimately the speed workflow experience when you have an option to just hover and click at a glance rather than locate it in the drop down list pull it down then read it and select it, that way is Way slower, so for this..Icons by al means.
Manyother software does it that way and tend to appreciate that, though in the case of lightwave and blender, they go for hide them and make them slower to acess ..just to get a clean interface of no good use.

There is room enough for those icons, and they wouldnīt be messy or confusing if done right, so use the tools/icons the space, do not hide the tools in subspace.

erikals
02-19-2017, 03:03 PM
The other big thing, I rather see the display options as icons such as shaded, wire, texture, weight etc...why, it will increase the workflow speed with some milliseconds and ultimately the speed workflow experience when you have an option to just hover and click at a glance rather than locate it in the drop down list pull it down then read it and select it, that way is Way slower, so for this..Icons by al means.
yes, have requested this earlier.


...not really grid snap either. what I Do want to see though, that is icons that are connected to what is shown in viewport, so that grid icon snap icon I would like to see as just a simple grid on off icon or text saying so for each viewport rather than going through display options, why not, itīs not gonna make lightwave messy, it will make it faster and easier to set a grid on off for desired viewport.
we disagree a bit here, but ok. i'm not a fan of putting things permanently in the opengl viewports unless absolutely necessary.
unless you meant next to the rendering style pulldown (?)


I would chose a larger image size than 16 x 16;
yep, good point.


do not hide the tools in subspace.
generally i agree, might make an AHK hack though, for fast access to certain tools.
the LW Ui would then only change if a MiddleClick was activated. we shall see.

thank you for input from you all. i Do appreciate it.  :)

jwiede
02-19-2017, 08:42 PM
Erikals,

The problem with grid snap icon like that is it cements in a bunch of limitations as well -- for Modeler, right now, it makes sense to turn on/off "grid snap" that way, but I'd be cautious about the expandability of that UI. Better to turn "snapping" on/off there, and allow for the potential of the snapping configuration as a separate panel (as is done in MODO, C4D and others). While grid snap might be the only "current" option, that can and likely will change in future.

I'm less convinced of the value of a "delete 1- & 2-pt polys" on/off control in viewport that way. I get the idea of having LW continuously remove any created 1-/2-pt polys during operations, but I believe the side-effects and corner-cases than arise from trying to automate that process are pretty significant. For example, does it apply to just the current layer, or all layers? Are any deletions undoable separate from the action which triggered the scan? What about cases where a 2-pt poly is the "connection" between poly islands, or the object/layer is primarily composed of such polys (think hair guides), should they still be deleted then? It's those kinds of issues/scenarios which make me question whether that UX is really "safe"/"adequate" for such a potentially dangerous action.

Just my $0.02. I believe the snapping on/off toggle has value (MODO, C4D, Form-Z, etc. all have something similar) with minor rethinking. OTOH, I feel the "auto 1-/2-pt poly remover" is too dangerous with such a minimal UX.

erikals
02-19-2017, 09:07 PM
good points.

maybe 1pp and 2pp should always be removed (never created) unless the user specifies so... (?)
but yeah, maybe it requires a bit more tinkering...

but need to let it rest for now, 5.00am, need to call it the night/morning...

jeric_synergy
02-19-2017, 11:37 PM
FWIW: C4D has in-vuport transparent UI elements, if you turn them on. At first, I thought "great!", but after using them for a while they are a bit intrusive. Maxon already gives up excessive screen real estate in giving each vuport a menu bar, IMO, and AFAICT there's no user option for placing the UI items you enable.

OTOH, it's very granular, and you can pick what you like.

BUT, it's global. --So, a mixed bag.

I'll tell you one thing I miss: LWM's differing cursor to indicate which mode (P/E/P) you are in. That doesn't take up ANY screen space. One of LW's more elegant moves.

Marander
02-20-2017, 02:25 AM
FWIW: C4D has in-vuport transparent UI elements, if you turn them on. At first, I thought "great!", but after using them for a while they are a bit intrusive. Maxon already gives up excessive screen real estate in giving each vuport a menu bar, IMO, and AFAICT there's no user option for placing the UI items you enable.

Do you mean placing the HUD display options (like parameters or object / modeling details you enable in the viewport)? You can move them with CTRL+Click. By the way you can also display the active tool via HUD.

kopperdrake
02-20-2017, 02:58 AM
The other big thing, I rather see the display options as icons such as shaded, wire, texture, weight etc...why, it will increase the workflow speed with some milliseconds and ultimately the speed workflow experience when you have an option to just hover and click at a glance rather than locate it in the drop down list pull it down then read it and select it, that way is Way slower, so for this..Icons by al means.
Manyother software does it that way and tend to appreciate that, though in the case of lightwave and blender, they go for hide them and make them slower to acess ..just to get a clean interface of no good use.

I have my numeric panel hot-keyed to the display options so whichever port the mouse if over gets that display option. I'd find it hard to fumble with tiny icons or a dop-down - in fact I've never used those tiny icons in the corner - they were always too fiddly and as screen sizes get bigger they get smaller and smaller, and the increased sensitivty on the mouse with multiple monitor setups makes it even worse. I've always loved the text buttons in LW - less ambiguous than icons, and the horizontal stretch they have is happily (and coincidentally I imagine) better for the fast pace my mouse moves in today's modern times.

Norka
02-20-2017, 06:34 AM
^ What he said. Should LW3DG ever add a bunch of icons, they better have a way to completely disable them, or I for one am out of here. And I think that pro-icon users are in a pretty small minority. Seems to me that most folk around these parts absolutely hate them...

It's a slippery slope with icons. Best just to delete this thread, and let's all focus on making our text-based LW better.

erikals
02-20-2017, 08:15 AM
Best just to delete this thread, and let's all focus on making our text-based LW better.

wow, great input! (not.)

prometheus
02-20-2017, 10:59 AM
we disagree a bit here, but ok. i'm not a fan of putting things permanently in the opengl viewports unless absolutely necessary.
unless you meant next to the rendering style pulldown (?)



I ment adding the Icon grid ON/OFF at the same place you placed your grid snap on off icon, change the grid snap icon to something else maybe, or add a button icon label with grid on off.
So they are placed either next to zoom, pan and orbit icons, or perhaps on the left side next to the viewport display drop down style types (not render style pulldown..unless you are in layout) having them as semi transparent hud in the viewport isnīt necessary since we still have the bars above the windows.