PDA

View Full Version : Sony FS5 and FS7 Tricaster Experience



Joaosantos
02-15-2017, 03:00 AM
Hi,

I'm thinking to buy 3 Sony FS5K to use with Tricaster 410? Does anybody have experience with that? Or with a Sony FS7 with Tricaster?

Does work well?

Thanks

JPulera
02-15-2017, 07:16 AM
Most any camera with HD-SDI output will work with the 410/460/8000 models, but keep in mind that TriCaster at best can accept a 1080i signal. It cannot process 4K or 1080p60/50 signals. I personally would be looking at a fixed-lens camcorder like a Sony Z150 for instance. The FS5 and FS7 have a Super 35 format sensor which provides a very shallow depth of field, maybe not desirable for live events - focus will be very critical. Plus you have to add your own lenses which can get expensive.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers

Joaosantos
02-16-2017, 09:17 AM
Most any camera with HD-SDI output will work with the 410/460/8000 models, but keep in mind that TriCaster at best can accept a 1080i signal. It cannot process 4K or 1080p60/50 signals. I personally would be looking at a fixed-lens camcorder like a Sony Z150 for instance. The FS5 and FS7 have a Super 35 format sensor which provides a very shallow depth of field, maybe not desirable for live events - focus will be very critical. Plus you have to add your own lenses which can get expensive.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers

The use is for static cameras with virtual set. I have tried a Z150 but i don't like the image and have a poor low light performance and cheap materials. The camera must be a Sony.
Thanks

Red Dog Records
02-17-2017, 11:55 AM
We have used the FS700, Z150 and the NX5 for locked-down green screen work with our Tricaster. Try to rent the camera and test it first if possible. Some have a delay in the SDI output that will cause audio sync issues that could be made worse by the tricaster session settings.

The shallow depth of field will be nice, but if you are using a green screen, the background will still be in focus (since it is virtual). You would need to blur your virtual set to recreate the shallow depth of field and then any camera could be used. Of course the shallow DOF will help to smooth out the greenscreen!

We are using the Z150 as our main cam right now for this type of work. Yes, it has a smaller sensor, but the processing is very clean even at higher gain settings. Also, we don't do any low light green screen work.

Hope that helps,

Andrew

Joaosantos
02-20-2017, 04:04 AM
We have used the FS700, Z150 and the NX5 for locked-down green screen work with our Tricaster. Try to rent the camera and test it first if possible. Some have a delay in the SDI output that will cause audio sync issues that could be made worse by the tricaster session settings.

The shallow depth of field will be nice, but if you are using a green screen, the background will still be in focus (since it is virtual). You would need to blur your virtual set to recreate the shallow depth of field and then any camera could be used. Of course the shallow DOF will help to smooth out the greenscreen!

We are using the Z150 as our main cam right now for this type of work. Yes, it has a smaller sensor, but the processing is very clean even at higher gain settings. Also, we don't do any low light green screen work.

Hope that helps,

Andrew


Hi,

On Friday Sony will lend me a Sony FS5K for two days! :D

I will try to see if HD-SDI out have delay that will cause audio sync issues.

All the share of the experience about that kind of cameras is welcome.

Thank you!

dhodlick
02-20-2017, 10:32 AM
The FS5 and FS7 will work great and I'm pretty sure you won't have sync issues. Is this an "I gotta have 4k" thing or is there another reason you're choosing a Super35 cam? The downside to using the FSx cameras is that if you ever wanted to use the RMB-170 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/875242-REG/Sony_RMB_170_Handheld_Remote_Control.html) remote CCU in your control room to shade the cams, you're out of luck. These cams only have the most basic of remote capabilities but they do put out a stellar image. They're not really meant for studio work - they're more of the documentary/marquee production sort of thing. Once you add a lens (or lenses) to the camera, you could get into the Sony 300k (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/983689-REG/sony_pmw_300_xdcam_hd_camcorder.html)for about the same $ or less. Then you can use the RMB-170's to remotely shade, focus, zoom, record, etc etc etc.

And as a bonus, you could make your own cables out of CAT5 (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/sorry-sony-im-made-my-own-8-pin-ccu-cables-out-cat5-dan-hodlick) to use with the 300k/170 combo instead of dropping major coin on the Sony-spec cables. We have 4 300k's and 1 NX5 here and we do a lot of greenscreen stuff for network cut-in's. The 300k's have never had a complaint from any of the downlink sites, nor the editors using the GS images.

JPulera
02-20-2017, 10:37 AM
TriCaster does offer Audio Delay settings in Audio Mixer, and I usually find that when using an HDMI or SDI camera source with analog audio from mixer, that I do need to add a few frames of audio delay to sync signals. Usually no issue at all, unless you are doing a live event (meeting, church service) where video is going to a projector, then audience will see the delay of the video screen versus live performer. If just recording or live-streaming, then there is no issue - sync in TriCaster, then broadcast.

Thanks

Jeff

SBowie
02-20-2017, 10:54 AM
TriCaster does offer Audio Delay settings in Audio Mixer ...Just for clarity, I think this is an AE-only feature though.

dhodlick
02-20-2017, 10:59 AM
TriCaster does offer Audio Delay settings in Audio Mixer, and I usually find that when using an HDMI or SDI camera source with analog audio from mixer, that I do need to add a few frames of audio delay to sync signals.
Jeff
Never had to do that here with our stuff. All SDI with analog audio coming from a mixer and video hitting the TC directly.

JPulera
02-20-2017, 01:20 PM
Just for clarity, I think this is an AE-only feature though.

Hi Steve,

You had me going there for a moment - I do get confused on AE vs. SE features since I do use both, but in this case SE does offer Audio Latency delay controls.

136063

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor

SBowie
02-20-2017, 01:26 PM
Hi Steve,

You had me going there for a moment - I do get confused on AE vs. SE features since I do use both, but in this case SE does offer Audio Latency delay controls.

136063

Jeff Pulera
Safe HarborOh good! Thanks for checking, Jeff.

Red Dog Records
02-20-2017, 02:26 PM
Never had to do that here with our stuff. All SDI with analog audio coming from a mixer and video hitting the TC directly.

It really does depend on the camera AND the tricaster settings. I am sure you can hear the delay if you listen to the audio directly from your mixer vs. audio directly from the tricaster.

We ran into most of our issues using the Sony FS700. It does have a noticeable delay in the SDI output. Paired with an NX5 or Z150 (both have less delay) and you can really see (hear) the difference.

We do quite a bit of live productions with IMAG so we are always looking for the lowest latecy possible. We end up running 1080i sessions for the higher resolution and faster refresh rate. Since there are a few frames of delay in the tricaster, we can see the difference going from 1080i to 1080p. Lots of other considerations regarding camera set up,projector settings, etc, but I simply wanted to call attention to the need to TEST THE CAMERAS first if possible.

Three FS5 or FS7 cameras are not a small investment and as mentioned already, they are not really designed for this type of use. (They are pretty awesome cameras though!)

Joaosantos, let us know how your testing works out,

Andrew

JPulera
02-20-2017, 02:56 PM
Yes, IMAG is where latency will cause problems!

Newtek recommends 720p60 for lowest latency (both camera and session at 720p) when doing IMAG productions. 1080p60 is not supported on TriCaster, though the new IP series will handle it.

Thanks

Jeff

Joaosantos
03-03-2017, 04:42 AM
Hi,

Sony provided to me a Sony FS5k for two days. I have many tests with the camera. I know that the camera are not design for live.

SDI connected at 1080i50 and also at 1080p25. The sessions also with the same settings.

But i was impressed with the image quality and the detail of the image.
The picture profiles can make a very good fine tuning.
The chroma key and the virtual set are perfect.
I have made lip sync tests with a college standing in front of the camera and talking (SDI form the camera and audio coming from a external mixer) and no problems.
I din't like the stock lens. It is not parafocal but Sony make it by software. It corrects automatic it is almost not noticeable. For Virtual sets works it's ok. But i will use the camera out of the studio some times and the lens don't convince me.

I have a good price for the camera. The other option for more or less the same price is the PXW-X180. The PXW-300 is out of the budget.
My ideia is to use with the Sony RM-30BP to have a nice control over the camera. The plus of 4K is to use with a portable ATEM 4K rig that i have. I have make some tests to and works via HDMI. Also have tested using a HDMI to SDI 4k converter to ATEM and also works.

The lens i think i will try to change for the lens that comes with the FS7 or FS7II.
Sony SEL-P18110G

TKF
04-06-2017, 07:09 AM
The FS5 and FS7 will work great and I'm pretty sure you won't have sync issues. Is this an "I gotta have 4k" thing or is there another reason you're choosing a Super35 cam? The downside to using the FSx cameras is that if you ever wanted to use the RMB-170 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/875242-REG/Sony_RMB_170_Handheld_Remote_Control.html) remote CCU in your control room to shade the cams, you're out of luck. These cams only have the most basic of remote capabilities but they do put out a stellar image. They're not really meant for studio work - they're more of the documentary/marquee production sort of thing. Once you add a lens (or lenses) to the camera, you could get into the Sony 300k (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/983689-REG/sony_pmw_300_xdcam_hd_camcorder.html)for about the same $ or less. Then you can use the RMB-170's to remotely shade, focus, zoom, record, etc etc etc.

And as a bonus, you could make your own cables out of CAT5 (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/sorry-sony-im-made-my-own-8-pin-ccu-cables-out-cat5-dan-hodlick) to use with the 300k/170 combo instead of dropping major coin on the Sony-spec cables. We have 4 300k's and 1 NX5 here and we do a lot of greenscreen stuff for network cut-in's. The 300k's have never had a complaint from any of the downlink sites, nor the editors using the GS images.

Wow --- this is some GREAT information :)
I was looking for an affordable solution to run CCU cables often times 100's of feet and Sony seemd impracticale due to cost. I was interested in the new Blackmagic USRA PRO soley because they can be controled remotly and without expensive additional hardware.

dhodlick
04-06-2017, 07:56 AM
Wow --- this is some GREAT information :)
I was looking for an affordable solution to run CCU cables often times 100's of feet and Sony seemd impracticale due to cost. I was interested in the new Blackmagic USRA PRO soley because they can be controled remotly and without expensive additional hardware.

Thanks! My how-to guide posted above is my most-viewed page on that site. Its even been visited twice by Sony. As of March 2017, we've run 450' on CAT5 and the adapters continued to work just fine. I'm tempted to try 1000' and see what happens.

moore.tech
04-05-2018, 03:30 AM
If you are looking for a CCU option there is Sony's RM-30BP Remote Controller. It supports the FS5, FS7, FS7 II, Z150, X160, X180, et al. Control up to 3 cameras with one remote. Look at the compatibility document linked below.

https://pro.sony/s3/cms-static-content/file/80/1237495198680.pdf

Stream
04-05-2018, 07:34 AM
Interesting, a post on this 365 days after the last post.
Now that's timing!

moore.tech
04-05-2018, 12:45 PM
Interesting, a post on this 365 days after the last post.
Now that's timing!

The post showed in a search result. Thought I would through my two cents in.