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WilliamVaughan
02-14-2017, 06:27 AM
This video is a brief overview of the three different Item List modes in MODO. The last option is a perfect fit for LightWave artists wanting a familiar layer setup.


http://www.pixelfondue.com/blog/2017/2/13/modo-item-list-mode-options

Snosrap
02-14-2017, 10:53 AM
Yep they have done a terrific job with the UI. This malleability is what LW needs. :)

WilliamVaughan
02-14-2017, 11:41 AM
I remember the first time I discovered I could make the MODO layers look like LightWave I was a very happy camper :)

erikals
02-14-2017, 03:24 PM
Looks Nice, never used it though. i agree, the LW Ui needs an overhaul.

not sure if they are putting more energy into getting Layout's GUI re-written, using Quicktroll or such. hard to say.

gerry_g
02-14-2017, 04:03 PM
Always disliked the little row of foreground background layers dots at the top of the screen, can not begin to describe my overwhelming sense of relief when I discovered F7 brought up layers panel, I opened it inLW 7.5b and haven't closed it since, and whats wrong with LW's front end, its not the GUI that worry me it's the tools or lack of really good ones that concern me the most.

pnelson
02-14-2017, 04:30 PM
Come on William.. This is the LightWave forums not the Modo forums.. :)


That said, you are the tutorial master!

WilliamVaughan
02-14-2017, 05:06 PM
Come on William.. This is the LightWave forums not the Modo forums.. :)



Fully understand... LIghtWave user was asking about this so I thought others might like it as well. :)

erikals
02-14-2017, 05:16 PM
happy to see notes on improvements, we post Blender / Maya/ Houdini stuff here as well.

should be in the Future request forum, but no biggie ihmo.

erikals
02-14-2017, 05:18 PM
its not the GUI that worry me it's the tools or lack of really good ones that concern me the most.

agree, still, it's a worthy note to the LWG Ui Designer.

i guess LW Gui Design ideas could have it's own thread.

Reco
02-14-2017, 05:51 PM
Fully understand... LIghtWave user was asking about this so I thought others might like it as well. :)

Please don't stop

Reco

jwiede
02-14-2017, 07:00 PM
Come on William.. This is the LightWave forums not the Modo forums.. :)

And if LW3DG mgmt. were posting info here regarding Lightwave, we'd be discussing it. But they aren't, so... :devil:

wingzeta
02-14-2017, 09:50 PM
Yeah, LW3DG would be well served to solve the communication problem, and manage expectations, regardless of when the next version will be done, because things have gotten a bit weird. The future has become so cloudy, that even hard core users are starting to plot potential road maps, that involve switching packages. It becomes a necessity if you don't know if a package will still be around in the future, with modern features set at least. You don't want to be left behind in this business. All the work to make LW fit into, and be compatible with pipelines, and now LW3DG are inviting people to work out pipelines that don't involve LW, with this silence. We get one of these "how to switch to: Modo, Blender, C4D, Houdini, posts every other week on the LW forum. I'm grateful for the info, as I do have interest in these other packages, and I like that these forums are open and largely unregulated that way, but how can I put this... There's blood in the water and the sharks are circling, there's a fox in the hen house, some dude is hanging around your girlfriend, and you keep ignoring her... There's a lesson in there somewhere.

BTW, I'm sure WV's motives are pure. He's one of the best teachers of 3D period. Just agreeing with jwiede, that the focus being on other software in the forum is a LW3DG problem that could and should be addressed right away. Communication, not a drop from the sky release, that they think will make everything better, after that girlfriend is already married to that other guy with two kids, never to return, is what is needed.

wingzeta
02-15-2017, 01:18 AM
I want to add one thing. Pnelson is in the right to say something. WV has had a (business??? not sure if pay was involved) relationship with Newtek as a LW ambassador in the past, and is a guy we all look up to. I think this was totally inadvertent on his part, but... This tip is not a tip to help LW users use LW, or emulate some functionality that exists in modo, using a node set up in LW, or to use LW with Modo, or demonstrate a technique. It is a a one way tip to ease the transition to a competitor's product. If the tip came in the context of another UI discussion, okay, but in this context, it is inappropriate given his past role IMHO, and this not being the modo forum. As much as I like the openness of these forums, I would nuke this thread if I were the moderator, but only after Rob Powers reads the bitching about LW3DG's communication problems;-) Sorry William, I just thought pnelson had a legit point, and that should not get lost in my complaining about the communication thing.

Wickedpup
02-15-2017, 02:06 AM
Nah.....if it had been a tip about Blender or Houdini you would have heard diddlysquat....but Modo? That's a whole nother matter. Funny that the users should get over Core, while they (LWG) are so touchy and sensitive about the Luxology exodus.Maybe it is time to get over it?

Snosrap
02-15-2017, 09:22 PM
I think this was totally inadvertent on his part, but... This tip is not a tip to help LW users use LW, or emulate some functionality that exists in modo, using a node set up in LW, or to use LW with Modo, or demonstrate a technique. It is a a one way tip to ease the transition to a competitor's product. If the tip came in the context of another UI discussion, okay, but in this context, it is inappropriate given his past role IMHO, and this not being the modo forum.

Yeah maybe, maybe not. That "feature" shown has been a part of modo since its inception so it's not exactly earth shattering anyway. It seems William is in good standing with his former employers so it appears to be all good. :)

Verlon
02-17-2017, 08:41 AM
I want to add one thing. Pnelson is in the right to say something.


If only that something had been news about LW Next. LW2015 implies a LW2016, and they did mention faster release cycle and better communication.



WV has had a (business??? not sure if pay was involved) relationship with Newtek as a LW ambassador in the past, and is a guy we all look up to.

Because protons are positively cool!!!


Not that Philip in't cool also, to be fair.

Either way, if there were a blog update, or a statement from NT/LW3D group, or a video or something, we would all be talking about that instead of looking longingly over at new features showing up in competing products. Is there NOTHING new to show? The first LWN Video went up in September 2015. There was the short video in December 2016 on the blog, and the one before that was March 2016. Are we down to 1-2 communication a year or so?

Are we doomed to turn into forum masochists who show tutorials on competing products just to get SOME attention from LW3DG (even if it is 'negative' attention)?

Even a post about log term bugs being squashed ("Hey, we killed this, this, and this. LWN now crashing 23.5% less often") would be encouraging.

But I did get to play with a trickster recently. The thing is wicked cool. I want one even though I have no use whatsoever. I sure wish I did. I wonder how often they get updates from their group.

pnelson
02-17-2017, 09:07 AM
Verion... I am definitely not cool and William is extremely cool.. HA!!!

erikals
02-17-2017, 09:08 AM
Are we down to 1-2 communication a year or so?

not quite, blog posts are every 3-4 months.

Lino & Matt gives an 'Hello' on Facebook LightWiki every now and then
and there is a LW NewsLetter each month.

that's how it is, not too different from the old NT marketing (or lack of it) around 2000.

the comfort, many companies behave the same way.

pnelson
02-17-2017, 09:11 AM
Nah.....if it had been a tip about Blender or Houdini you would have heard diddlysquat....but Modo? That's a whole nother matter. Funny that the users should get over Core, while they (LWG) are so touchy and sensitive about the Luxology exodus.Maybe it is time to get over it?

Doesn't matter what the competing product is to me.. I wonder if any other commercial software developer would allow you to post competing tutorials! Has anyone seen this supported by LightWave's competitors?

One of the things I like most about working for NewTek is how much NewTek values it's COMMUNITY.. For the most part, we try to be pretty open and not go into moderating madness.

Nicolas Jordan
02-17-2017, 09:20 AM
I use the full Layer window in modeler but it does lack some much wanted functionality that item list in Modo has. The ability to be able to shift select multiple layers in modeler is long overdue. I actually use MODO for this on some models that have a huge amount of layers because it's way to tedious to do in Modeler. It's changes like this that would really help Lightwave feel modern and not so aged.

WilliamVaughan
02-17-2017, 10:20 AM
Doesn't matter what the competing product is to me.. I wonder if any other commercial software developer would allow you to post competing tutorials! Has anyone seen this supported by LightWave's competitors?

One of the things I like most about working for NewTek is how much NewTek values it's COMMUNITY.. For the most part, we try to be pretty open and not go into moderating madness.

I post LightWave videos on the MODO forums, MODO Slack boards, MODO Skype channel and MODO Beta Forums all the time. This week I shared a couple including Ryan's camera tools. No one seemed to have issue with it. I shared a MAYA video this morning as well.

The whole reason I shared this video here... and to be honest... made the video to begin with was for LightWave artsits. (https://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/129438/layers-how-to-create)

I show that feature to LW artists on a regular basis when they want to use MODO like LW. Seemed fitting to post it on LW boards. Similar to if someone was asking for a LW to Zbrush pipeline. I dont know anyone other then LW artists that use the item list in small mode.


I also love reading the other posts on the NewTek boards that are about other tools like Zbrush. It just seems MODO is a touchy subject for some here on these boards. If NewTek has issue with it all I need is the word... I have no issue playing by the rules.


If 60 seconds of shared knowledge truly upsets someone I have no issue refraining from posting here.

:)

Wickedpup
02-17-2017, 01:13 PM
Doesn't matter what the competing product is to me.. I wonder if any other commercial software developer would allow you to post competing tutorials! Has anyone seen this supported by LightWave's competitors?

Then this thread should be a thorn in your eye.....http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?152644-Houdini-16....but for some reason (see my previous post) it isn't.....
And I remember having seen both Blender and Houdini tutorials (just for starters) over at Foundrology but the search function isn't implemented on the new forum yet AFAIK...

WilliamVaughan
02-17-2017, 02:26 PM
Then this thread should be a thorn in your eye.....http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?152644-Houdini-16....but for some reason (see my previous post) it isn't.....
And I remember having seen both Blender and Houdini tutorials (just for starters) over at Foundrology but the search function isn't implemented on the new forum yet AFAIK...



You might be thinking of this thread for Blender.
https://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/60807/blender-releases-addons-tutes-books-stuff-2-7x-is-out

Its been there for around 6 years + and is very active.

Surrealist.
02-17-2017, 03:25 PM
Love to see some Blender tutorials from you William. Can't think of anyone better to break it down for people. :)

WilliamVaughan
02-17-2017, 03:32 PM
Love to see some Blender tutorials from you William. Can't think of anyone better to break it down for people. :)

I haven't tried Blender is 1999. Might have to add it to my list of things to do for the year .

Surrealist.
02-17-2017, 03:47 PM
I'd think you'd really enjoy a lot of the modeling tools and especially the modifiers. Anyways... My point being that you have a way of breaking things down for people. And especially for LightWave users who have trouble getting their head around Blender. It is another program that compliments LightWave very well. It even has support for .lwo import as well as .mdd. And there are people who have sorted taking fluid sims into LightWave. I am sure you are aware of most of this. :)

TheLexx
02-17-2017, 04:27 PM
Then this thread should be a thorn in your eye.....http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?152644-Houdini-16....but for some reason (see my previous post) it isn't.....
And I remember having seen both Blender and Houdini tutorials (just for starters) over at Foundrology but the search function isn't implemented on the new forum yet AFAIK...But are there also Lightwave tutorials at the Foundry forums ? It is quite an interesting thought to consider to what extent the different softwares are actually competing with each other. I think Autodesk would be sweating over the Houdini 16 release much more than Newtek, but I would have thought there is more jostling between Lightwave and Modo. Also, is it fair to suggest that Modo has made a few roadmap clangers here and there ? I'm afraid I would rather repent all my sins and face 3DCoat. (Please take this post with a pinch of humour).

hrgiger
02-17-2017, 06:59 PM
At this point, I honestly don't know what the big deal is. I use both LightWave and Modo. And it wasn't someone posting about Modo on the LW boards that made me adopt Modo in the first place. People are going to use what works for them. To be honest, I'd like to see more back and forth between apps more often so cheers to you William.

jwiede
02-17-2017, 07:23 PM
At this point, I honestly don't know what the big deal is. I use both LightWave and Modo. And it wasn't someone posting about Modo on the LW boards that made me adopt Modo in the first place. People are going to use what works for them. To be honest, I'd like to see more back and forth between apps more often so cheers to you William.

Exactly. Lots of LW customers also own MODO, and Newtek's failure to significantly improve Modeler for an extended period played much more of a role in that outcome than any forum posts. At this point, the horses have left the barn, and closing the door serves only to prevent and discourage their return.

Seriously, of all the things a member of Newtek/LW3DG upper mgmt. could come and discuss in the forums, this issue seemed the most pressing? Really?

samurai_x
02-17-2017, 07:36 PM
I got into modo because it was so similar to lightwave modeler. Right down to how you create weightmaps, etc.
I might leave lightwave because modo is a modern version of lightwave and lack of communication from newtek. I'm not alone. Many modo users were former lw users that don't care about lw anymore.
So I can see pnelsons point and fear.

TheLexx
02-17-2017, 07:37 PM
In hindsight my last post seemed a bit harsh, so amended.

Wickedpup
02-18-2017, 02:55 AM
But are there also Lightwave tutorials at the Foundry forums ?
William has posted some of his LW tutorials over there without any knee-jerk reaction.....my guess is the techniques taught are considered applicable/useful to any application. Just goes to show what a great guy William is, we should be thankful he takes the time to post stuff here.

Snosrap
02-18-2017, 10:50 AM
I got into modo because it was so similar to lightwave modeler.

Yep me too. But I've also stopped upgrading Modo as well - 601 is most likely my last depending these next couple LW updates. LW has made significant updates with the 11 and 2015 series so I intend to just stay up to date with LW for at least the next few updates. I've been staying up on Modo's progress and while it's impressive it also looks overwhelming to a certain extent. I doubt I would use half that stuff. :) Also my experience with Modo has been less than satisfactory in the reliability department. The next few LW upgrades will be crucial to NT and LWs future and if it looks like they are on the right track, I'll most certainly stay the course, if not I may reconsider upgrading my Modo at some point. I really enjoy Williams 60 second vids whether they apply to modo, LW or other - it's just 60 seconds.

jwiede
02-18-2017, 12:41 PM
just goes to show what a great guy william is, we should be thankful he takes the time to post stuff here.

QFA. I think this forum would be a less interesting place without his posts.

hrgiger
02-18-2017, 03:49 PM
Yep me too. But I've also stopped upgrading Modo as well - 601 is most likely my last depending these next couple LW updates. LW has made significant updates with the 11 and 2015 series so I intend to just stay up to date with LW for at least the next few updates. I've been staying up on Modo's progress and while it's impressive it also looks overwhelming to a certain extent. I doubt I would use half that stuff. :) Also my experience with Modo has been less than satisfactory in the reliability department. The next few LW upgrades will be crucial to NT and LWs future and if it looks like they are on the right track, I'll most certainly stay the course, if not I may reconsider upgrading my Modo at some point. I really enjoy Williams 60 second vids whether they apply to modo, LW or other - it's just 60 seconds.

There are fine points to both LW and Modo but I can't say my experience with modeling is the same and for myself, I can't even compare the two programs as they couldn't be any more different. In my opinion, Modo is probably one of, if not the best, polygonal modeler on the market. And its been upgraded quite a bit since version 601 and stability has improved as well. And that's not even taking into account Mesh Fusion or the new procedural mesh ops added in this last cycle. With LW3DG pretty much ignoring Modeler for far too long, if it wasn't for LWCAD, Modeler probably wouldn't get much use from me.

I sure hope LW3DG has plans for improving modeling at some point in the near future.

Snosrap
02-18-2017, 07:58 PM
There are fine points to both LW and Modo but I can't say my experience with modeling is the same and for myself, I can't even compare the two programs as they couldn't be any more different. In my opinion, Modo is probably one of, if not the best, polygonal modeler on the market. And its been upgraded quite a bit since version 601 and stability has improved as well. And that's not even taking into account Mesh Fusion or the new procedural mesh ops added in this last cycle. With LW3DG pretty much ignoring Modeler for far too long, if it wasn't for LWCAD, Modeler probably wouldn't get much use from me.

I sure hope LW3DG has plans for improving modeling at some point in the near future.

I hear ya. There isn't much I can't make in modeler so for now I'm willing to wait to see where LW goes. :)

gerry_g
02-19-2017, 06:00 AM
Its not that you can't model in Modeller pretty much as well as you might in Modo as I use either myself, but as most everything I model has uv's attached to them, making changes or fixes to them in Modo is less likely to break them than LW also Modo has uv slip to auto adjust the uv's to match the mesh as I adjust it, every thing about the uv mapping process in Modo is on another level compared to LW, as for modelling I'm a minimalist, I think you can have too many tools, all you need is handful of good ones

hrgiger
02-19-2017, 07:53 AM
i would agree its not a matter of impossible to model something in modeler. But it is a matter of speed and efficiency. When you can slide edges or points, scale, rotate or move multiple objects in their own local space, fill holes in geometry and match perpendicular spans, bridge a long a curve, interactively adjust your falloffs, constrain to background elements, smart pattern selections.... just so many other things that make modeling more efficient. Im not trying to say modeler is that bad, just saying that its been ignored too long and it needs more than just new tools, it needs new ways of working.

Verlon
02-19-2017, 08:35 AM
Exactly. Lots of LW customers also own MODO, and Newtek's failure to significantly improve Modeler for an extended period played much more of a role in that outcome than any forum posts. At this point, the horses have left the barn, and closing the door serves only to prevent and discourage their return.

Seriously, of all the things a member of Newtek/LW3DG upper mgmt. could come and discuss in the forums, this issue seemed the most pressing? Really?

What he said. This is exactly the reason I bought Modo, and exactly the reason I upgraded it.

erikals
02-19-2017, 10:49 AM
hm, found this by coincidence >
hope that isn't representative for the Modo ui

http://i1-win.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/Luxology-LLC-modo_5.png

hrgiger
02-19-2017, 11:08 AM
hm, found this by coincidence >
hope that isn't representative for the Modo ui

http://i1-win.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/Luxology-LLC-modo_5.png

Why, is there something wrong with it? If you're referring to the deformer drop down list, they're using it from the modeling workspace. You can also use it straight from the toolbar also.

erikals
02-19-2017, 11:33 AM
referring to the deformer drop down list
yep. looks clunky.

also sincerely hope it isn't one of those "you moved the mouse too far away from the pull-down menu, please try again" things.
i remember apps way back had that.

hrgiger
02-19-2017, 12:28 PM
And again, it's also available directly from the menu in the other workspace.

To put it in perspective, how to apply a lattice deformer in LW from modeler.

Save model. Open in layout. Buy lattice deformer from 3rd powers. Use lattice. Save transformed. Either re-open in modeler or send via the hub (if it works). Does that sound less clunky?

erikals
02-19-2017, 12:37 PM
talking Ui, not features.

however, yes, that's slightly clunky too.

Ztreem
02-19-2017, 12:45 PM
And again, it's also available directly from the menu in the other workspace.

To put it in perspective, how to apply a lattice deformer in LW from modeler.

Save model. Open in layout. Buy lattice deformer from 3rd powers. Use lattice. Save transformed. Either re-open in modeler or send via the hub (if it works). Does that sound less clunky?

You can also dl a lattice deformer for modeler and use that.

hrgiger
02-19-2017, 12:51 PM
You can also dl a lattice deformer for modeler and use that.

Except its not an animatable deformer like Modo or 3rd powers which is why i was comparing the two.

Ztreem
02-19-2017, 01:05 PM
Except its not an animatable deformer like Modo or 3rd powers which is why i was comparing the two.

Ah Ok, didn't read the whole thread.

hrgiger
02-19-2017, 01:25 PM
talking Ui, not features.



Which is why its a UI item. https://www.screencast.com/t/EwdL8mIhqln

erikals
02-19-2017, 01:34 PM
good to see that. was worried for a second.

samurai_x
02-20-2017, 03:57 AM
Yep me too.


Yeah so I can see why pnelson is not so cool with it being a newtek employee. Modo is so similar, but better, in modelling that most of the userbase over there are ex lightwavers.
When someone posts about lightwave over there they get a very negative vibe and lot of bad jokes for lightwave.
These two appz will be rivals forever.