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kopperdrake
02-08-2017, 03:25 AM
In anyone's opinion, is there a renderer available for LW that gives the look of what I assume is a Vray renderer - examples can be seen here:

http://renderingofarchitecture.com/architectural-visualization-development-mallorca

I use the XFrog trees and various grass/plant resources, but struggle to get the finish seen in these shots with the native renderer and SunSky.

samurai_x
02-08-2017, 03:31 AM
Exteriors - octane
Interiors - kray
You can achieve acceptable results with lightwave though a bit slower render times. But if you have several dozen computers lightwave unlimited rendernodes can keep up with speed.

kopperdrake
02-08-2017, 08:50 AM
Thanks samurai_x, I'd thought about looking at Octane in the past (last summer in fact) but having seen a beta of LW Next demo the new PBR surfacing module I thought I'd wait as I assumed it wasn't far away. I think I need to stop prevaricating and just bite the bullet if I'm to keep up.

Cheers, that's a great help :thumbsup:

Asticles
02-08-2017, 09:23 AM
Also, indirectly, you can use Thea render, which is really fast and has a substance to studio importer.

Another option are Maxwell studio and Guerrilla render, last one is free for one workstation and project. All these options work exporting and importing objects or scene.

Regards

RebelHill
02-08-2017, 10:03 AM
Might be worth waiting for LW next (how far off can it be?)... though much of the look (both there ad in other renderers) is to do with proper observance of PBR norms, which you CAN do in current LW just fine...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcb5LyTmC2c

Asticles
02-08-2017, 10:49 AM
Might be worth waiting for LW next (how far off can it be?)... though much of the look (both there ad in other renderers) is to do with proper observance of PBR norms, which you CAN do in current LW just fine...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcb5LyTmC2c

So color highlits can be used as metalness?

Edit:Sorry, don't want to steal the thread.

RebelHill
02-08-2017, 10:55 AM
yes.. since thats all that "metalness" is... the lack of a diffuse reflection (and the associated diffuse colour), and instead the presence of a purely specular reflection (which has colour in metals but not in dielectrics).

THIBAULT
02-08-2017, 11:09 AM
And don't forget,
As the studios MIR and LUXIGON say, architectural vusualisation is 30% 3D rendering and 70% Photoshop!
For me, it's Octane for exterior and interiors, but i've 6 Titan X.

Asticles
02-08-2017, 11:37 AM
But pmc is not trully bidirectional, isn't it? What about lots of small light sources in interiors?

kopperdrake
02-08-2017, 12:29 PM
Exactly RebelHill - I've been waiting since last summer, but I need to bite that bullet now. I'll set myself a project of reworking an exterior shot in Octane, to see how much is me and how much is the software. Foliage is the the biggie for me, but I suspect I need to get to grips with nodes in order to get the best results.

samurai_x
02-08-2017, 08:00 PM
Might be worth waiting for LW next (how far off can it be?)

Do you know something we don't? :D
Looks like a hint.

samurai_x
02-08-2017, 08:03 PM
Exactly RebelHill - I've been waiting since last summer, but I need to bite that bullet now. I'll set myself a project of reworking an exterior shot in Octane, to see how much is me and how much is the software. Foliage is the the biggie for me, but I suspect I need to get to grips with nodes in order to get the best results.

Keep in mind with octane you need at least 3 highend videocards. You'll be working from scratch, too with octane.

sukardi
02-08-2017, 09:10 PM
For exterior, Octane is brilliant. It is more than just the PBR-ish workflow and the speed. The thing that got me hooked was the interactivity - like a matured version of fprime and the fact that your preview is 100% the same as the final render. You can even interactively preview the DOF, the AO and all the render passes all in one go.

On the downside, it is a big investment in time and effort.

1. You have to learn its logic which is different from LW native renderer. I only need a couple of days to get going but it takes me a few months before I feel confident in getting the look that I want - in terms of texturing, lighting, HDRI,l getting rid of noise etc. But once you get it, it is a pretty robust system.

2. You need to redo ALL the materials - no two way about it.

3. Need to get those CUDAs. I am using dual 980ti which is quite cost effective. It is totally worth it though - like having 10 mid range Xeons working all at once.

Conclusion - I do mainly archvis and I find Octane works really well.

kopperdrake
02-09-2017, 02:58 AM
This is the problem I suspect - arch viz is only a part of what I do - I'm the absolute definition of a generalist. I downloaded it yesterday and had a quick play - and then realised a quick play isn't what's needed, the depth of learning is something you absolutely need to be sure that you want to go that route. And the libraries I've built up over time are so vast that the thought of redoing them all for another renderer, when LW Next might be released any day with its own PBR renderer, makes me realise why I put learning Octane off last year. It's a tough decision to make but I have to make it, so we'll see. I'm reasonably happy with LW's external renderer, if I could crack the foliage thing I'd personally be happy, and I've seen a thread on it on the forum http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?123357-Nodes-and-translucency-again

However, when clients are looking at the typical arch viz renders pumped out by other packages, I do think I need to learn another renderer.

The CUDAs don't worry me, or getting cards - it's the lack of time more than anything, and choosing the wrong direction.

THIBAULT
02-09-2017, 03:27 AM
Octane exterior rendering 5000 X 3500 px - Pathtracing 8000 - 2H20

135932

samurai_x
02-09-2017, 04:20 AM
However, when clients are looking at the typical arch viz renders pumped out by other packages, I do think I need to learn another renderer.

Vray, thea, corona are the top viz renderers right now.

But lightwave native renderer is not so bad in the right hands. Takes longer to render.
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/c24899_f002f7c7936d467da349cfa21827a4ea.jpg/v1/fill/w_1230,h_568,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/c24899_f002f7c7936d467da349cfa21827a4ea.jpg

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/c24899_16090838e88d46b6ae662d132057e539.jpg/v1/fill/w_1230,h_568,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/c24899_16090838e88d46b6ae662d132057e539.jpg

Although lightwave next's renderer might be a downgade for archiviz if they're going Arnold type renderer.

sukardi
02-09-2017, 05:28 AM
Some Octane archvis renders. Its' strengths are definitely different from Corona but I feel that you can go quite far playing to its strength rather than using it to emulate Corona...
135933
135934

kopperdrake
02-09-2017, 08:08 AM
Okay - here are a couple of shots in question. To me the trees still look 'illustrative', though I'm happy with the interior renders.

http://albino-igil.com/images/exterior.png
http://albino-igil.com/images/interior.png

- - - Updated - - -

This one, done by someone unknown, just looks more hyper real, and I can't put my finger on why.

http://renderingofarchitecture.com/rendering/architectural-visualization-development-mallorca-2.jpg

erikals
02-09-2017, 02:58 PM
3D Model and LightWave Render: Alain Rivard

https://www.lightwave3d.com/static/media/uploads/news/star-wars-tribute/alain-rivard_ilm-2.jpg

erikals
02-09-2017, 03:00 PM
LightWave Render by Gerardo

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0BWvm9u9vyw/maxresdefault.jpg

erikals
02-09-2017, 03:02 PM
LightWave Render by Sebastian Smolak

https://www.lightwave3d.com/static/media/uploads/gallery_images/architecture/sebastian_smolak-norway_settlement.jpg

spherical
02-09-2017, 06:45 PM
Might check out our new studio model and renders. All LightWave with X-frog trees and plants. The barn is modeled in layers, so I can turn off the siding, roofing, windows, doors, etc. at will to expose the framing. Trees and shrubs are instanced, as are the storage bins in the shop and the chairs around the Deep Sea Anemone conference table. Everything else is geometry. The gallery contains models of our design studies executed prior to production, imagery created for publication, the shop contains all of the equipment we own, the kitchen/dining/pantry, bath and sleeping loft are the only interior areas completed at the time of our move. We are in temporary digs, shop is set up and producing again, so can now turn to finishing the living quarters.

135942 135944 135943 135945 135947 135946 135948 135949

More on: sanf.org (http://sanf.org/).

sukardi
02-09-2017, 07:04 PM
This one, done by someone unknown, just looks more hyper real, and I can't put my finger on why.

http://renderingofarchitecture.com/rendering/architectural-visualization-development-mallorca-2.jpg[/QUOTE]

I think there is quite a bit of photoshop work going there. The lighting is nicely balanced, which you would not get if you try to be 'physically accurate'. These are probably things that went into these image

1. Extra lights to lit up the shadow areas - clean up noise as well
2. Localised exposure adjustment in photoshop to get the image nicely balanced
3. Some of vegetation could be pasted in photoshop
4. And of course, selective saturation and color balance in photoshop.

Images like this normally takes more than just the renderer - especially in production environment.

kopperdrake
02-10-2017, 03:53 AM
Thanks Sukardi, and others. It gives me pointers and I believe the built-in renderer is still the tool for me to use. I'm going to have a play with Octane though, for some simple new renders that come in, to have a bash at learning it.

Cheers :thumbsup:

samurai_x
02-10-2017, 04:57 AM
Yeah lightwave native is still vesatile.
You can see in this thread the different renders it can do from cartoony to photoreal.

rustythe1
02-10-2017, 05:03 AM
LightWave Render by Gerardo

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0BWvm9u9vyw/maxresdefault.jpg

My tumbler returns yet again! he did that quite a long time ago as well, version 9 I think when nodes first came about, it was in HDRI magazine, shame about what happened to that mag as it was quite good
and the article was called "naa, you cant do that with lightwave!"

kopperdrake
02-10-2017, 06:17 AM
Wasn't it only the car that was CGI?

rustythe1
02-10-2017, 07:19 AM
sort of, the backdrop is in the sibl collection (one thing to look at for lighting your outdoor viz, some of them work quite well still with 2015.)

erikals
02-10-2017, 09:18 AM
great render   :)
bit info on breakdowns here...
https://web.archive.org/web/20140617115130/http://lightwiki.com/wiki/Multipass_Rendering_with_Filter_Node_Editors

djwaterman
02-10-2017, 09:35 AM
Yes only the car is 3D.

samurai_x
02-10-2017, 08:14 PM
Kray 3 OB 5
6min render
http://www.kraytracing.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=7477&mode=view

djwaterman
02-10-2017, 10:20 PM
Yes I will upgrade to Kray 3 when it is fully released, unfortunately both Kray 3 and the next LW renderer won't have micro poly displacement, hopefully the new geometry engine makes normal displacement a little easier but they both need to make this the next priority for their renderers.

Surrealist.
02-11-2017, 01:14 AM
Thanks Sukardi, and others. It gives me pointers and I believe the built-in renderer is still the tool for me to use. I'm going to have a play with Octane though, for some simple new renders that come in, to have a bash at learning it.

Cheers :thumbsup:

I was going to say this in the beginning. But I think that what you might want to do, considering sticking with LW, is to open some threads here to get some pointers. I think it has more to do with technique than it does one render over the other. Though, clearly, there are some advantages in using some others mentioned here. But given the new render solution, you still have to learn the techniques and apply them to that render solution and also tap into the advantages which will not likely be automatic, but that will come with time using that solution. I think you can do fine renders with LightWave. But no matter what you do, which solution, I think you will do well by focusing on technique. My 2C. :)

samurai_x
02-11-2017, 04:47 AM
Yes I will upgrade to Kray 3 when it is fully released, unfortunately both Kray 3 and the next LW renderer won't have micro poly displacement, hopefully the new geometry engine makes normal displacement a little easier but they both need to make this the next priority for their renderers.

Don't really have time to play with kray 3 ob5 right now but Janusz has been posting frequently about the latest builds and developments, unlike another developer/company. :D
Kray is still the best renderer for interiors in lightwave imo.