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View Full Version : "NEXT". 5 years in the making and rising!!.



cove
02-05-2017, 05:13 PM
Just want to put a different slant on the Layout/modeler issue and backwards compatability.

We are told most of the issues have been largely overcome and with a bit more tidying up and a few more bugs to sort out we should have "NEXT"
soon. Which is great.
But this information was provided way before the last post which more or less said the same thing. "Alls going well".

My different slant is this.

"NEXT". 5 years in the making and rising!!.

This is a what if scenario.
What if Rob and the developers had originally decided to develope a new version of Lightwave [we will call it lightwave X] that on the face of it and for ease of development
the modeler/layout split and backwards compatability was not a consideration. [Obviously there has to be some degree of compatability but we leave that to one side for the moment].

Not, for the most part, having to consider previous versions of Lightwave they would have the freedom to create a brand new state of the art 3d programe with all and more that we already know about in place.

As far as backwards compatability is concerned.
All 3d software have as standard import and export facilities to enable you to freely exchange files and this obviously includes your version of lightwave and the new version of Lightwave X.

You may say there is more to it than import and export and to many other issues will leave the relationship of LightwaveX and previous versions of lightwave well broken.
Things are going to be broken anyway as "NEXT" will be largly compatable but some things are not going work.

Plus add to this that eventually Lightwave "NEXT" will not have a separate Modeler.
Also if we continue with the Lightwave X scenario.
We could of been getting updates to lightwave 2015.3 for sometime during the time spent creating Lightwave X.

Finally and this may be a controversial thing to say.

Given the ongoing and unrelenting blackout could the reason for this be that Lightwave developers, because of to many insummountable compatabiblity issues, are actually now creating
a brand new version of Lightwave like ive described above.

Made me wonder so decided to write this up and post it to see what you think about this possibility.

Snosrap
02-05-2017, 06:04 PM
Haven't you heard of Lightwave Core?

djwaterman
02-05-2017, 10:05 PM
It doesn't matter because no one answering this question knows anything about LW's current development (apart from what has already been officially revealed), so what people think is not going to answer your questions.

samurai_x
02-05-2017, 10:37 PM
Another lightwave next thread?
Nobody from newtek is going to answer. That's how terrible, hideous, ugly communication is from newtek.

Better to talk about lwcad sale and porting to different platforms :D, deeprising plugin, global warming.

50one
02-06-2017, 03:12 AM
Another lightwave next thread?
Nobody from newtek is going to answer. That's how terrible, hideous, ugly communication is from newtek.

Better to talk about lwcad sale and porting to different platforms :D, deeprising plugin, global warming.

When I mentioned the comms issue to the LWG rep wasn't interested in addressing that, even quite cocky, so....

Surrealist.
02-06-2017, 03:18 AM
It is actually 8 years in the making. This is a continuation of core (2009), fused into LightWave as it exists, rather than to create another app. So on this next release according to information communicated by LW 3D Group on the blog and here, is the first milestone in this effort. Which means the geometry engine has been replaced, which is a main issue, and then from there forward development happens on that new engine.

The total time probably needed to develop an app from scratch as complex as LightWave and also add new features is much longer than 8-9 years.

Probably reasonable to expect most of the fundamental visible changes (UI Design and integration of rigging modeling and animation) to start appearing or coming together in a big way around 2020.

erikals
02-06-2017, 09:22 AM
i thought i heard 2 years, 1 year ago...

Spinland
02-06-2017, 09:31 AM
It doesn't matter because no one answering this question knows anything about LW's current development (apart from what has already been officially revealed), so what people think is not going to answer your questions.

Heh. Indeed.

But, of course, commenters not knowing any actual facts won't stop yet another stream of endless naval-gazing (seasoned with more rants about how poorly LW3DG is behaving). Bring it! :dance:

Surrealist.
02-06-2017, 09:43 AM
Core was first Announced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightWave_3D

On February 4, 2009, NewTek announced "LightWave CORE"

What actually happened and what was actually said when CORE was "canceled". It was only canceled as a stand alone product. From this point (June 23, 2011) Rob states core technology will be infused into LightWave, which started with VPR in version 10. A core technology.

http://www.cgchannel.com/2011/06/rob-powers-on-lightwaves-three-year-roadmap/

And four years later shed light on what shape this all took:

https://blog.lightwave3d.com/2015/10/lightwave-philosophy/

Today. Early Feb 2017. 8 years in, almost to the day.

Verlon
02-07-2017, 08:32 AM
...From this point (June 23, 2011) Rob states core technology will be infused into LightWave.....



And I must say that they have done an excellent job of infusing said technology into LW Next.
They have implemented a 100% bug free version of long delays.
They are still stamping out the last bugs in poor communication, but once they muzzle Lino, I think they will have that down as well.

The render enhancements were really nice though - on a more serious note.

Every4thPixel
02-07-2017, 09:08 AM
Just have patience. Eventually we will forgive the cruel trick they played on us once we get our hands on this shiny diamond called Lightwave.

MichaelT
02-07-2017, 09:58 AM
Haven't you heard of Lightwave Core?

You can drop the 'core' thing now. That name is taken by Houdini 16 Core ;)

50one
02-07-2017, 10:13 AM
My biggest concern is that by the time it is released it will be already outdated,

erikals
02-07-2017, 10:19 AM
You can drop the 'core' thing now. That name is taken by Houdini 16 Core ;)

i see you saw that as well....  :D

Surrealist.
02-07-2017, 10:56 AM
They'll have to battle it out with Pixologic.

https://pixologic.com/zbrushcore/

bazsa73
02-07-2017, 10:58 AM
Good for Newtek, the "Core Curse" has been lifted at last.

Nicolas Jordan
02-07-2017, 11:00 AM
I just hope that longer dev time since the last release means more changes and polish on the upcoming release. I think it's been about 2 years now since the original release of LW 2015 came out so I'm thinking we should see something soon....but then again I've been saying that for the past year now.

bazsa73
02-07-2017, 11:05 AM
I'm 100% positive (I have learned this phrase from movies).

Verlon
02-07-2017, 10:00 PM
well, the last couple of times I paid money for Modo, Newtek almost immediately responded with a Lightwave update. I am starting to think that is what they are holding out for. I still don't have Modo 10.

pming
02-07-2017, 11:29 PM
Hiya!

If I'm not a SJW (Social Justice Warrior...go look it up on YouTube if you're brave enough), can I still get "triggered"? If so...


Haven't you heard of Lightwave Core?

TIGGERED!!!!!

;)

Man, I *still* say, and have been saying since they shelved it, that LWCORE was Newteks *best bet* for not only keeping up with the Joneses, but surpassing them (at least at the time). I wish to god I could figure out what hard drive, CDROM or JAZ/ZIP Disk (anyone remember those?) my backup copy was on. *sigh*

Anyway, with the NEXT LW version I don't think they need to be backward compatible...they need to be 'backward accessible'. If they can get a stand-alone converter program going where one could open a scene or model and the converter would go through and list everything not compatible, and/or what something will be converted into, and/or if something just can't be converted...that would be all they need.

*shrug* I'm a patient man, but this is starting to get a bit ridiculous, imho.

Surrealist.
02-08-2017, 01:15 AM
Yeah I liked the core concept too. The only thing I did not agree with was how much time they thought it would take. The time they are now taking to do this is agreeing with my concept of time. So it does not bother me. I think the reason that they canceled it was legal/financial. Just speculation of course. But they had made a lot of agreements that were tied into that project timeline. Imagine how angry core members would be right now if it still was not finished some 8 years later. And it wouldn't be. In fact there would be at least a projected additional 5 years to go. OK handycap the transition and coding for the interface and shave off a year or even two. Still the time it is taking would be correct. Nearly 15 years. In the next 3 years it should accelerate and catch up on a lot of areas. Speculation opinion of course.

samurai_x
02-08-2017, 01:45 AM
Man, I *still* say, and have been saying since they shelved it, that LWCORE was Newteks *best bet* for not only keeping up with the Joneses, but surpassing them (at least at the time).


Or it could have been the next Softimage, Truespace and whatever dead software there is because they went dark for too long trying to make the super app they think users want.
Wait....they are doing it right now....maybe there's still a chance lightwave will go the softimage way :D

OlaHaldor
02-08-2017, 02:07 AM
Snip from here (https://blog.lightwave3d.com/2015/10/lightwave-philosophy/):

Finally, I want to let LightWave users know that you currently have in place a LightWave development, management, sales and marketing team


So basically the marketing team just sit there and get paid for.. what?



and as a side note: this mean I've had that avatar of me in a Tigger costume for EIGHT YEARS?!

50one
02-08-2017, 03:22 AM
Snip from here (https://blog.lightwave3d.com/2015/10/lightwave-philosophy/):



So basically the marketing team just sit there and get paid for.. what?



and as a side note: this mean I've had that avatar of me in a Tigger costume for EIGHT YEARS?!

I believe they spebt time discussing special pricing / add a seat promo and send newsletter.

To be fair I'm finding it hard to believe there are actually people doibg marketing at LWG, rather one person - designer doing the newsletter and stuff when someone from top level is giving consent and prepares a copy.

erikals
02-08-2017, 03:28 AM
might be that someone at NT is working on the new Star Trek show, and will use that as a LightWave marketing advantage.
that speculation is a long stretch though...

usually, the marketing i see is from Rob, Lino, and a girl designing the newsletters.
i don't believe there is a dedicated marketing team, working 7hours/5days... can't be.

dirtydog
02-08-2017, 03:53 AM
Just look at the latest development in Houdini and the pricing structure that(at the moment) gives you a free version, indie with $100000 earning limit and if you are making that kind of money can easily buy the version that suits you.

I believe LW could disappear, after all good apps have went under, LW is still trying to catch up with what could be described as more modern apps for at least the last 8 years or so and given the effort to make Houdini more user friendly with customisation built into it, I know where I would put my money.

erikals
02-08-2017, 04:06 AM
i use LightWave pretty much because of a fast workflow, >for certain things<
even the Houdini coders admited LightWave and Houdini is quite different and could go hand in hand.
LightWave with it's straight forward approach (with the + & - that gives)
and Houdini with it's much more coplex, but also ofte slower approach.

but sure, LightWave needs to wake up a little, drink some coffee...  :caffeine:

rustythe1
02-08-2017, 04:28 AM
might be that someone at NT is working on the new Star Trek show, and will use that as a LightWave marketing advantage.
that speculation is a long stretch though...

usually, the marketing i see is from Rob, Lino, and a girl designing the newsletters.
i don't believe there is a dedicated marketing team, working 7hours/5days... can't be.

yes, there defiantly used to be 2 people because I did interviews with both, however both their LinkedIn profiles listed multiple employers and a while back the lead one was removed from the LWG who we are page, and as far as I know is no longer listed as newtek on Linked in, I would take a good guess there is one part time outside contractor just drafted when needed.

dirtydog
02-08-2017, 04:58 AM
i use LightWave pretty much because of a fast workflow, >for certain things<
even the Houdini coders admited LightWave and Houdini is quite different and could go hand in hand.
LightWave with it's straight forward approach (with the + & - that gives)
and Houdini with it's much more coplex, but also ofte slower approach.

but sure, LightWave needs to wake up a little, drink some coffee...  :caffeine:

Both come from different directions, LW is a straight forward approach and Houdini from the complex approach so to speak. What I' am remarking on is that Houdini is now making progress on making it more user friendly which was badly needed and are now addressing these issues very quickly.

If you were to ask non LW users their opinion, possibly the majority would go to Houdini, on the Softimage site they all see the latest Houdini as the replacement for Softimage which was/is both straight forward workflow and complex also and a lot of posters pour scorn on LW ever becoming a top app.

You pays your money and takes your choice, I' am tied in on the 5 updates charter and will renew but judging by a lot of LW users they want their cake and eat it in being tied to the old LW when it really needs to throw off the past and move forward, time will tell.

safetyman
02-08-2017, 05:09 AM
Enlighten me a little bit about backward compatibility: The folks who already have a version of LW can still use that until new projects are put into the "Next" version, right? I have compatibility issues all the time with other SW, but I get over it and find a workaround. What's the big deal? It's not a LW-specific thing or a new thing; why is it such an issue if you have a project that works with what you already have? It's not like v2015 will suddenly stop working when you get a shiny new version.

What about when a team gets frustrated with the software they have been using and switch to something that gets updated more frequently (ahem)... they will have compatibility issues, sure, but they don't curl up into the fetal position. Backwards compatibility should be near the bottom of the list of things to worry about... well not the very bottom, but still.

MichaelT
02-08-2017, 05:51 AM
The upcoming version will be backwards compatible as far as I know, at least when it comes to loading models & projects. As for saving anything that can be loaded by an older version, I am not so certain. But I am OK with that. In any case, there is nothing wrong with a clean slate. In other news: The Autodesk CEO got the boot yesterday, and judging by the comments. They too irate about 'falling behind' and what not. Houdini 16 keeps popping up there too. I just think it is hilarious, that everyone thinks *their* product is falling behind wherever I look (except Blender of course, since it is doing the catching up. Rapidly I might add) With the exception of just Houdini. Kind of interesting isn't it? What do they do differently I wonder? Oh yeah, they release small, and often (as in daily builds) and they communicate. Go figure. They also do one thing that I believe is unique in the industry. At least I haven't seen it anywhere else. They hold courses for their product. But that only works because there is such an interest for the product of course.

TheLexx
02-08-2017, 07:46 AM
And Houdini does a much more flexible licencing than Autodesk instead of compulsorily forcing subscription on the user. People occasionally take a pop at Newtek's endless promotions, but I love the fact that Lightwave can be just bought and it is yours, completely offline, for ever, often at a discount. Also, it is interesting that one of the more recent LW Next demos was showcasing Houdini compatibility, so I wonder if the release of Houdini 16 is somehow a factor in the upcoming (imminent?) release of LW Next.

On a humorous note, maybe the Autodesk guy got the boot entirely because of LW Next and nothing to do with Houdini at all.

Marander
02-08-2017, 08:21 AM
And Houdini does a much more flexible licencing than Autodesk instead of compulsorily forcing subscription on the user. People occasionally take a pop at Newtek's endless promotions, but I love the fact that Lightwave can be just bought and it is yours, completely offline, for ever, often at a discount. Also, it is interesting that one of the more recent LW Next demos was showcasing Houdini compatibility, so I wonder if the release of Houdini 16 is somehow a factor in the upcoming (imminent?) release of LW Next.

On a humorous note, maybe the Autodesk guy got the boot entirely because of LW Next and nothing to do with Houdini at all.

Yes I find the LW promotions are ridiculous.

You can buy LW, modo and C4D which is great. Houdini perpetual is node locked or with license server as far as I know. Not the same for me because I cannot just change the machine, install on several computers etc. But Houdini Indie is so cheap that I would make an exception. By the way, the software is not yours, you only hold a license :-)

LW Next is NOT Houdini compatible (at least not from what we heard). OpenVDB support is great to have in LW and will help import simulated Houdini objects into LW. On the other hand I would just remain in Houdini and render with mantra and be able to re-sim if required.

C4D for example is Houdini compatible because the Houdini Engine is built-in (but will need to be updated for H16 support, which happens in regular fixpacks).

Surrealist.
02-08-2017, 08:29 AM
Interesting news. Read into it what you may. ;)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-02-07/autodesk-ceo-carl-bass-stepping-down

http://fortune.com/2017/02/07/autodesk-carl-bass/

Some of it of course we can not discuss here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/autodesk-ceo-says-harry-reid-read-dr-seuss-in-a-meeting-2017-2

50one
02-08-2017, 08:43 AM
Interesting news. Read into it what you may. ;)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-02-07/autodesk-ceo-carl-bass-stepping-down

http://fortune.com/2017/02/07/autodesk-carl-bass/

Some of it of course we can not discuss here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/autodesk-ceo-says-harry-reid-read-dr-seuss-in-a-meeting-2017-2

Nothing LW related for sure. Just another looney blaming Trump for whatever so he can leave saving his fat ****.

MichaelT
02-08-2017, 09:19 AM
:) Whatever the reason for mr. Bass leaving though, I merely wanted to shine a light on how important communication is.

MichaelT
02-08-2017, 10:00 AM
Yes I find the LW promotions are ridiculous.

You can buy LW, modo and C4D which is great. Houdini perpetual is node locked or with license server as far as I know. Not the same for me because I cannot just change the machine, install on several computers etc. But Houdini Indie is so cheap that I would make an exception. By the way, the software is not yours, you only hold a license :-)

LW Next is NOT Houdini compatible (at least not from what we heard). OpenVDB support is great to have in LW and will help import simulated Houdini objects into LW. On the other hand I would just remain in Houdini and render with mantra and be able to re-sim if required.

C4D for example is Houdini compatible because the Houdini Engine is built-in (but will need to be updated for H16 support, which happens in regular fixpacks).

Node locked yes, but you can move it to another computer if you need to. You can return the license, and move it. If you get stuck support will help you (I know because it happened to me while I was changing machine at home) but I do think they should just have a simple login procedure like steam have. It would be much better. Still, I think the value of it is so good, that I don't mind the extra hassle in that specific case. Otherwise I normally hate licenses that behave like that.

Marander
02-08-2017, 12:28 PM
Node locked yes, but you can move it to another computer if you need to. You can return the license, and move it. If you get stuck support will help you (I know because it happened to me while I was changing machine at home) but I do think they should just have a simple login procedure like steam have. It would be much better. Still, I think the value of it is so good, that I don't mind the extra hassle in that specific case. Otherwise I normally hate licenses that behave like that.

Thanks good to know! So far I've been playing Apprentice a while ago but most of the times when I want to start it I get a license error.

I guess / hope that Indie doesn't behave like that and works completely offline once activated?

However still not ideal because I'd like to prepare scenes when mobile and render / sim / upres on the workstation later.

Surrealist.
02-08-2017, 12:59 PM
Yeah I concur with Michael. It is a little odd to deal with but once you get used to it, fairly easy to move around. Similar in a way to Zbrush. For me as long as the company allows me to move a license around on my own like that, I am good. Quixel as a similar thing.

Regarding your license error, I have had some odd things happen with the icon that it places on the desk top. Sometimes the icon links to the wrong license version. If you look in your Side Effects folder. Windows 8.1/10 for example you will see that they have multiple versions. Indie/Apprentice etc. Sometimes I have to go to the correct version manually and then it loads fine. From there I can switch the desktop icon. Not sure if that is your issue your not. But it could be you are trying to load a version you don't have a license installed for.

TheLexx
02-08-2017, 02:35 PM
It would be great to see an up to date roll-call of current "buy to keep" software. This could include dongle software like Unfold 3D and Headus.

I was visualising a texturing workflow down the road and recently found out that Substance Painter seem to be very friendly on licencing (offload licence file from user account and install/move as you wish). Quixel, closer to a Zbrush licensing model, looks good and fast, but will tie the user to an Adobe subscription. I've always had the sneaking suspicion that Foundry would like Modo licencing more restricted, judging by their other products, but they know there would be discontent. Then again, maybe I should just cross that bridge when I come to it.

jwiede
02-08-2017, 03:20 PM
I just hope that longer dev time since the last release means more changes and polish on the upcoming release. I think it's been about 2 years now since the original release of LW 2015 came out so I'm thinking we should see something soon....but then again I've been saying that for the past year now.

The more concerning date, IMO, is that LW2015.3 released on Aug 9, 2015, now around a year and a half ago. That's a loooooong time to go without releasing any fixes/updates.

Surrealist.
02-09-2017, 01:12 AM
True about updates. But I also wonder how much the fact that they are including fixes in a another build structure. This is a unique situation where the next release will have the new engine. It is not just a contiguous update on the same base code. With that in mind, I am OK with it. It is probably a lot more time consuming to maintain two separate engines with the same fixes. Seems like with what we know, the new engine is going to also introduce new bugs and needed fixes. The sooner that they can get to a release on that the better. I am just happy that the next release of LW is not going to be more stuff piled on the old code. We have waited for this a long time. It is a significant milestone.

Marander
02-09-2017, 03:37 AM
Regarding your license error, I have had some odd things happen with the icon that it places on the desk top. Sometimes the icon links to the wrong license version. If you look in your Side Effects folder. Windows 8.1/10 for example you will see that they have multiple versions. Indie/Apprentice etc. Sometimes I have to go to the correct version manually and then it loads fine. From there I can switch the desktop icon. Not sure if that is your issue your not. But it could be you are trying to load a version you don't have a license installed for.

Thanks Richard, I will give it a try when H16 is out.

Marander
02-09-2017, 03:39 AM
The more concerning date, IMO, is that LW2015.3 released on Aug 9, 2015, now around a year and a half ago. That's a loooooong time to go without releasing any fixes/updates.

This! And there are quite some broken stuff in LW that would need to be fixed.

For other 3D applications we even still get updates when the new version is out since a while and regular update for the current one. I don't want to mention product names again :-)

Marander
02-09-2017, 03:43 AM
I am just happy that the next release of LW is not going to be more stuff piled on the old code. We have waited for this a long time. It is a significant milestone.

Yes. this is indeed what I expect from LW Next but I'm not so sure it will actually be that way. I have not seen an indication that there is a decluttering of the interface planned for LW Next.

For the render engine yes but what about all the countless redundant and abandoned plugins and tools. Why do they have Torus2 now (implies to me that there is still a legacy Torus).

Surrealist.
02-09-2017, 05:30 AM
Yeah. That is true. I think it will be as you say. I was mainly referring to the new unified geometry engine which completely replaces what is now in Layout. So now, all tools written will take advantage of that. Rather than saddled by limitations of the old code. I don't think there is a new geo engine in Modeler. I think it has been stated that Modeler remains untouched and future modeling tools will be added to Layout. However the reasoning behind putting the new geo engine into Layout was to be able to continue using the tools there. So I don't anticipate that cleaning up overnight. I am mostly happy that whatever tools they write will not be saddled by other limitations. And hopefully over time we will see more modeling, painting and so on in Layout. And any new rigging system can also take advantage of this.

MichaelT
02-09-2017, 07:33 AM
Yes. this is indeed what I expect from LW Next but I'm not so sure it will actually be that way. I have not seen an indication that there is a decluttering of the interface planned for LW Next.

For the render engine yes but what about all the countless redundant and abandoned plugins and tools. Why do they have Torus2 now (implies to me that there is still a legacy Torus).

I think they confirmed some months ago that they would not change things that much when it comes to the UI. Only that they've rewritten the codebase so they can begin work on both integration, and other updates. I think that this might have been a massive undertaking considering all the code both Modeler & Layout are based on, from their respective beginnings.
Aside from upgrades they've already mentioned of course. I would've loved to see the code.. but then we would like to see many things :) I've got an idea how to integrate them right now, but it will stay as an idea.

Marander
02-09-2017, 10:28 AM
@Richard & @MichaelT

Yes I'm the same opinion. It's a big undertaking for LW3DG and they cannot do everything at once. I think nobody expects that and to me a fast geo engine is an important part. It's good they are not releasing it too quickly in order to have a good result (I assume).

What I would actually prefer is that they would take the additional time that is required to also fix some old stuff like undo, unstable tools and ui issues, add some modeling tools to Layout and while doing this post screenshots and blog post of the progress to keep the community informed. I don't think they are developing something so crazy nobody should know about. But I understand at some point cash must be coming in.

Surrealist.
02-10-2017, 05:58 AM
I does kinda seem like, though, whenever they do have something significant, they let us know. I would think they are as anxious to show us stuff as we are to see it. Ever worked on a large project and you know it is going to be a while to show progress? And every time someone has a glimpse of it, they say, "wow can't wait to see this finished". I always sigh and say, yeah. Me too. I don't think they are keeping stuff from us. I think they have showed all of the major things as they can. And what is frustrating on both sides, is that it is taking a while. I don't need updates that another 10,000 lines of code have been finished. I wanna see what that translates to when it reaches its maturity. I don't think people are going to get exited about progress bars. But Open Vdb demo, yeah. Looks good. That there is a long time between visual updates tells you that it is taking a long time between being able to show more visual (feature) updates. Nothing more to read into that.

allabulle
02-10-2017, 08:35 AM
I concur.
Oh, and since I don't need to be emotionally managed by a company and I'm not holding shares of the company (so I'm not an investor) I'm fine.

Wickedpup
02-11-2017, 03:05 AM
I concur.
Oh, and since I don't need to be emotionally managed by a company and I'm not holding shares of the company (so I'm not an investor) I'm fine.

What a subtle way to generalize and categorize all the complainers......nicely done, sir!;D

erikals
02-11-2017, 04:26 AM
bla-bla-bla   not out yet...   rage-rage-rage...!

there!  ...just had to add my monthly outburst.

50one
02-11-2017, 05:17 AM
Changing the subject slightly.

Anyone else noticed, hoe there's always around 10 core:) and probably 10 additional users somehow always here.

I think we can call them hard-core, most dedicated, patient and happy to fork out the update cash when Next is here.

Just struggling to understand how that few thousand dollars gonnae cover running cost for the business.

Yeah, I kbow it could be more as not everyone is active on forums but still.

ianr
02-11-2017, 05:31 AM
Changing the subject slightly.

Anyone else noticed, hoe there's always around 10 core:) and probably 10 additional users somehow always here.

I think we can call them hard-core, most dedicated, patient and happy to fork out the update cash when Next is here.

Just struggling to understand how that few thousand dollars gonnae cover running cost for the business.

Yeah, I kbow it could be more as not everyone is active on forums but still.


( The Coded Reply - a draining, kitchen-sink episodic drama)


Nah, there's alot of Forum- Humming Birds who dip in & dip out,

who don't give Horses Arse about expensive solutions that chain

you in non-escape subscriptions. But does NewTek care that LW

could get whipped down into the Blender ?


(See next week's exciting installment) hah!

jwiede
02-11-2017, 06:18 PM
Changing the subject slightly.

Anyone else noticed, hoe there's always around 10 core:) and probably 10 additional users somehow always here.

Or it could just means they leave browser windows open to LW forum msgs in the background for extended periods. The forum's ability to determine "presence" is very limited.