PDA

View Full Version : Houdini 16



Reco
01-26-2017, 12:59 PM
Exciting news for all of us who are using Houdini in addition to Lightwave.

http://www.creativebloq.com/news/houdini-16-the-new-features-revealed
https://www.sidefx.com/community/houdini-16-launch-streaming-on-february-6/


Reco

Surrealist.
01-28-2017, 11:42 PM
Definitely will be watching this one.

Reco
01-29-2017, 02:56 AM
Definitely will be watching this one.

Then we are two.
To be honest, I can hardly wait. Nice to see the 3D world is moving forward while we are waiting for the next LW release.

Houdini 16 seems to be a major update, and for me it is one of the most important plugins for Lightwave.

Houdini 16:
Redesigned Ocean tools.
Water Surface tension simulation.
Infinity oceans without tiling.
Contexts sensitive radial menu dial.
Open CL accelerated.
Terrain generator.
Muscle and skin simulation.
Updated Hair and grooming.
Faster Mantra.
And its goes on and on.


Reco

ianr
01-29-2017, 08:01 AM
I have an Invite to the launch section in London,

Does any Waver what me to scope out any details?

fablefox
01-29-2017, 08:39 AM
Then we are two.
To be honest, I can hardly wait. Nice to see the 3D world is moving forward while we are waiting for the next LW release.

Reco

There will be also The Foundry event in early feb (6th or 9th ?) there are rumors that modo will be one of the product being talked about...

hrgiger
01-29-2017, 08:57 AM
Modo event is at 7pm pst on the 9th.

Signal to Noise
01-30-2017, 12:55 PM
...it is one of the most important plugins for Lightwave. ...

Curious as to what you mean by this. An actual plugin? Or just a step in the procedure pipeline between LW & 'x' software?

I too am piqued about Houdini as I never used it before. In the past the price was way too prohibitive. But now with Indie & non-FX version I may just take the plunge into getting it. I've started Apprentice mode to get a feel for it. I am intrigued with it's volumetrics, fluids, and rigging routines. I want to see how I can fit Houdini in to my LW workflow.

MichaelT
01-30-2017, 01:50 PM
No, he means it is an important tool for him. So much so that he uses it as part of his LW pipeline. There is no connection between the two, nor is there a Houdini engine plugin for LW available. The free version contains the full package, maybe you missed it? It is just that you cannot use it for anything other than learning the tool. Its save format is also locked to learning only. Meaning that if you get indie version (or higher) later, then you cannot load anything created in this format. But at least you can save.. C4D (should you want to look at that tool as well) free version cannot do even that (well, it *can* but only for a short time. But it is still possible to keep learning it for as long as you want, beyond that period)

Reco
01-30-2017, 03:32 PM
Curious as to what you mean by this. An actual plugin? Or just a step in the procedure pipeline between LW & 'x' software?

MichaelT is right. It is an important tool. You can’t access it within Lightwave. “plugin” should be more correct.
Many of mine projects have included oceans and water. It used to be an easy task on my 32-bit system due to the Nature FX Lightwave plugin. (Nature FX for Softimage was used in Titanic).
So, I really don’t need anything more complexed then that.

I have on several occasions asked for the Nature FX plugin to be ported to Lightwave 64bit. You can read more about it here.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?145256-Water-and-Underwater-Features&highlight=reco


It hasn’t been ported yet, and I understand it will never be. Long story short, I invested in Houdini Indie.
I model in Lightwave/LW Cad. UV’s in Lightwave or 3D Coat. Texture in 3D Coat and Photoshop. Rendering in Lightwave. Simulations and rendering of
simulations using Mantra in Houdini Indie. The comp is done in Fusion.

Here is an example of how to import a LW scene into Houdini.
135803
You can read more about it here.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?151032-How-do-you-bring-LW-scenes-(no-animation)-into-Houdini-these-days&highlight=reco



I have seen some attempt to import Houdini Simulated meshes into Lightwave. My approach is to render the simulated ocean part in Houdini, simply because
the shaders in Lightwave can't match the default Houdini Ocean shader.
135804
Houdini Ocean shader.


Houdini:
Houdini Apprentice is free but you’ll end up with Watermarks on the rendered frames. It has a resolution limit of 1280x720 on rendered
animated and still frames. No support for third party render engines either. And no render farm support.

Houdini Indie will set you back $199. It is the same software as Houdini FX, but with a resolution limitation of 1920x1080 on animation.
Stills are unlimited. As far as I understand you can’t use it on project with budget of $100.000 or higher. You have to pay $199 for each render
node if you have a render farm. You can use Gridmarkeds renderfarm solution to render your projects. I have done that on several occasions.
http://www.gridmarkets.com/

Hopefully the next version of Lightwave will offer a more seamless workflow between Lightwave and Houdini.
Here is a post regarding Houdini Engine for Lightwave.http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?145684-Houdini-Engine-for-Lightwave&highlight=reco



Reco

Signal to Noise
01-30-2017, 03:56 PM
^
That's awesome, Reco (and MichaelT). Thanks for sharing that info. I'm now stoked to get into Houdini!

Thomas Helzle
02-02-2017, 07:57 AM
Houdini Indie will set you back $199. It is the same software as Houdini FX, but with a resolution limitation of 1920x1080 on animation.
Stills are unlimited. As far as I understand you can’t use it on project with budget of $100.000 or higher. You have to pay $199 for each render
node if you have a render farm. You can use Gridmarkeds renderfarm solution to render your projects. I have done that on several occasions.
http://www.gridmarkets.com/

That is inaccurate: You can't use Indie if you make more than 100,000$ per year and can't work for clients with it that make more than that. In that case, you can't deliver scenes or any open format to them.
You can only deliver finished renderings or baked models in that case.

You get 3 free licenses of Houdini Engine with Indie that can be used on three additional machines for rendering with Mantra and for simulation via HQueue. It's a rather involved setup but I got it working with the help of their support.

Like Apprentice (.hipnc = non-commercial), Indie also has a separate file format (hiplc = limited commercial) that can't be opened in the full version of Houdini without it going into restricted mode

And: the 199$ is a license for one year, so basically it's a subscription.

Still a great deal IMO.

I can highly recommend Houdini Indie, it's absolutely brilliant and became my main 3D application since I finally took the plunge last September.
Especially for everything FX and generative/procedural it's pure bliss.
https://www.screendream.de/design/generativa/

Cheers,

Tom

Signal to Noise
02-02-2017, 09:16 AM
...

And: the 199$ is a license for one year, so basically it's a subscription.

Still a great deal IMO.

I can highly recommend Houdini Indie, it's absolutely brilliant and became my main 3D application since I finally took the plunge last September.
Especially for everything FX and generative/procedural it's pure bliss.

Cheers,

Tom

Yeah, just think: a 23 year subscription of Indie = a single year of FX. I may just jump straight into Indie and forego Apprentice altogether.

I'm also wondering if SideFX will offer any incentive/discount deals for Houdini FX once their Houdini 16 live stream event hits on Feb 6?

ianr
02-02-2017, 10:40 AM
I have an Invite to the launch section in London,

Does any Waver what me to scope out any details?


UPDATE : this month's copy ( March?) of 3dWORLD Magazine

has a six (6!) page review of Houdini Rev16 for U 'all

Marander
02-02-2017, 11:41 AM
I can highly recommend Houdini Indie, it's absolutely brilliant and became my main 3D application since I finally took the plunge last September.
Especially for everything FX and generative/procedural it's pure bliss.
https://www.screendream.de/design/generativa/

Hey Thomas

Beautiful images on your website! I love the 'Spiraling Cradle' in your Sculptures Gallery specially.

Thomas Helzle
02-02-2017, 11:44 AM
Hey Thomas

Beautiful images on your website! I love the 'Spiraling Cradle' in your Sculptures Gallery specially.

Thanks, that was actually rendered in Lightwave IIRC ;-)

Cheers,

Tom

Marander
02-02-2017, 11:45 AM
Thanks, that was actually rendered in Lightwave IIRC ;-)

Cheers,

Tom

Haha that's funny! Great work!

Thomas Helzle
02-03-2017, 02:43 PM
https://vimeo.com/202435893

https://vimeo.com/202435893

That looks amazing...

Cheers,

Tom

Reco
02-03-2017, 05:46 PM
Impressive.
Looking forward to the presentation, and to get my hands on it.


Reco

MichaelT
02-06-2017, 01:11 AM
Really nice ;) I am really happy i'm on Houdini.

Paul_Boland
02-06-2017, 02:49 AM
UPDATE : this month's copy ( March?) of 3dWORLD Magazine

has a six (6!) page review of Houdini Rev16 for U 'all

Is it good?

Thomas Helzle
02-06-2017, 03:24 AM
Looking forward to the presentation today too:
https://www.sidefx.com/community/houdini-16-launch-streaming-on-february-6/

Good times :-)

Lets hope LW can come up with a similarly juicy update...

Cheers,

Tom

allabulle
02-06-2017, 05:02 AM
Anyone care to share some thoughts about how good is Houdini for character animation? Is it used that much for that purpose?

Thomas Helzle
02-06-2017, 05:18 AM
The new version seems to be geared at exactly that besides other things from the preview movie.
For quite a while, SideFX seem to acknowledge the areas where they were lacking, like poly modelling, character animation etc. and put quite some effort into it.
The new CA tools look quite promising, how good they are in reality has to be seen.
Better weighting, better drawing of bones, new autorig, muscle simulation - let's see the presentation this evening, I hope they go into a bit more detail there.

Cheers,

Tom

ianr
02-06-2017, 08:29 AM
Anyone care to share some thoughts about how good is Houdini for character animation? Is it used that much for that purpose?

Well,they seem to be developing a seriously good muscle system

if the horse's arse on the demo is anything to go by!

How they stack up against Maya's Various Muscle outings is to be seen.

They ain't got 'Riggit' yet though.

50one
02-06-2017, 09:13 AM
Well,they seem to be developing a seriously good muscle system

if the horse's arse on the demo is anything to go by!

How they stack up against Maya's Various Muscle outings is to be seen.

They ain't got 'Riggit' yet though.

Been ages since I've seen horse bum but it looked good to me.

allabulle
02-06-2017, 09:47 AM
Thanks guys.

I'll check the presentation if I can free some time. I completely forgot it's on this very afternoon.

I find the Indy version isn't that expensive and runs on Linux. I don't really need that much all the VFX goodness Houdini brings to the table but a solid character animation tool-set and good undo and graph editors couldn't hurt me. I'm fine with LightWave and some Blender for most of my work, but I'd like to give Houdini a go, albeit probably not for the most common uses it's made for. I'd like to skip Maya if possible, but I'm not entirely convinced about the Blender thing (even if I quite like it).

Well, thanks again. I'll try to watch the presentation today.

THIBAULT
02-06-2017, 10:25 AM
Thanks, that was actually rendered in Lightwave IIRC ;-)

Cheers,

Tom

Yes, very good works and beautiful render !

Thomas Helzle
02-06-2017, 10:50 AM
Thanks a lot Thibault! :-)

Yeah, the lightwave renderer integrated into Houdini and a Thea Plugin for it would make my joy complete ;-)
(A big Thea update is said to be coming, not sure if they will ever support Houdini though).

I don't use Houdini for SFX either, but if you are interested in procedural things, it's hard to beat, since everything works together, even stuff that shouldn't ... And having all those FX-things available is bliss (for me at least).
I can already see a lot of non-terrain uses for the new terrain tools for instance...

Cheers,

Tom

allabulle
02-06-2017, 12:40 PM
Interesting, thanks Thomas. (Love your work, by the way.)

About Thea: Not having object deformation motion blur is keeping me from using it more for animation. Some other things too but that is important to me. Giannis (the main developer) said they have it working on an internal build. Also, if most features besides the needs for product shots and architecture visualization aren't going to be supported there's hardly a point in integrating the renderer into DCC softwares. It makes more sense to make plugins for CAD and the likes. We'll see what happens next. They have more resources now, anyway, since the merger (or aquisition). Yet the next release will be the culmination of previous efforts. Maybe the subsequent release after the "imminent" one will clear the waters.

Meanwhile I tend to use Octane more, in LightWave and Blender. Probably in Houdini if I end up getting it.

Thomas Helzle
02-06-2017, 12:50 PM
True (and thanks ;-) ), but my gut feeling is, that the next version of Thea will have more of those features, which is why I take it slow with investing in one of the other GPU renderers ATM.
Octane in Houdini is rather limited since you can only get attributes (really the core features of Houdini IMO) into it with tricks. Although it's node-based, it's not very open to outside input.
I hope 3.1 will improve that with OSL, but I haven't got a clear picture of that yet.

Show about to start :-)

Cheers,

Tom

MichaelT
02-06-2017, 01:03 PM
Houdini 16 launch started now

https://www.sidefx.com/community/houdini-16-launch-streaming-on-february-6/

allabulle
02-06-2017, 01:05 PM
Yup, watching the waiting in youtube until the next wet guests make it to the hall, in my comfy dry sofa. :-)

Marander
02-06-2017, 01:29 PM
Houdini 16 launch started now

https://www.sidefx.com/community/houdini-16-launch-streaming-on-february-6/

Wow $1495 for H16 Core until end of May, not bad!

allabulle
02-06-2017, 01:41 PM
Is the streaming stopping every now and then for you too?

Reco
02-06-2017, 01:44 PM
Is the streaming stopping every now and then for you too?

Same here

Reco

MichaelT
02-06-2017, 01:48 PM
keeps interrupting :( But the picture is clear already. Modeling is taken seriously, and is now a company focus. Booleans finally do good work, unlike the previous version. I like what I see.

allabulle
02-06-2017, 01:51 PM
It looks promising. They shouldn't use booleans on the stream though. It's a pity it's getting unwatchable specially if you are not already a user with knowledge to fill the gaps.

allabulle
02-06-2017, 01:58 PM
Is it stopping right in the most interesting part on purpose? I hope they offer the event to watch later without the cuttings.

I stop complaining now. Sorry.

Reco
02-06-2017, 01:59 PM
It looks promising. They shouldn't use booleans on the stream though. It's a pity it's getting unwatchable specially if you are not already a user with knowledge to fill the gaps.

It is recorded and will be available later.

Reco

allabulle
02-06-2017, 02:04 PM
Thanks, Reco.

MichaelT
02-06-2017, 02:18 PM
Light component splitting... finally.

Iaian7
02-06-2017, 02:23 PM
Interesting updates to the shader engine, it looks. I've not used Houdini enough to follow everything, but it's cool seeing some of the shader "components" they've added, which honestly remind me a little of what I like about Lightwave 9.6; individual nodes for diffuse, specular, reflection, etcetera. Crazy powerful when you need crazy effects.

MichaelT
02-06-2017, 02:55 PM
Just wow... so much candy :) I'm gonna put on some weight.

Two weeks 21st... *sigh* hahaha.

Thomas Helzle
02-06-2017, 03:07 PM
That looks all totally fabulous and addresses many things I found not really good before, especially shading with nodes was a major pain, but looks very well thought out now.
Glass and SSS look finally up to par.
Just dragging a component onto your object to see it solo is brilliant - like dragging a node in Fusion on the viewport.
I was impressed by the preview video but am even more impressed now.

I'm totally happy about my decision to take the plunge into Houdini finally after all those years.

Two more weeks - can't wait :-)

Cheers,

Tom

allabulle
02-06-2017, 03:47 PM
The influx of XSI users and their feedback might have prompted some of the new workflows and re-factoring of the system. It could be really good for us long-time LightWavers, besides the more technically focused.

I'll surely consider getting Houdini seriously now.

Reco
02-06-2017, 03:58 PM
It was a good presentation, but they should have consulted Newtek regarding streaming technology. I’m impressed with all the stuff Side Effects have been able to include in the new version.
I’m not a shading expert, and didn’t understand the shading part 100%. Will the new node system replace the VEX system in Houdini 15?

Hopefully next impressive software release will be LW 2017.


Reco

Thomas Helzle
02-06-2017, 04:39 PM
Yeah, too bad it took me so long after XSI was trashed by AD to grok that Houdini is my thing - on the other hand, 15.5 and now 16 are much more appealing than some of the older versions... ;-)
But I agree, it's a good thing for everybody involved that they go for the broad approach, it will make Houdini accessible to a much wider audience.

They had problems with the web connection, not much Newtek could do about that. The recording will be available later without hickups they said.

So far, the shader stuff was rather messy, now it seems they streamlined it a lot to make it more like XSI or Lightwave from what they showed, so that shaderbuilding is less confusing and more of it is handled in the Uber-Nodes they provide. They also seem to have taken out one layer of complexity ("shop") which never made much sense to me anyway. I'm pretty sure it's still VEX under the surface, but I didn't see a more technical explanation of the changes yet.
As I understand it, you can better decide now on what level you want to work. Use the Disney-like Principled Shader that has all features built in or build your own from the medium complex blocks they showed - after that you still are free I'm sure to go down do atomic nodes or VEX code.

One of the main things for me is that everything works with everything. What they showed about the terrain tools and how they interact with all other stuff is amazing.
That's how it should be done.

Hard two weeks ahead :-)

Cheers,

Tom

Reco
02-07-2017, 03:59 AM
You can see the presentation here. Still not perfect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry_mD67cO5c


Reco

allabulle
02-07-2017, 04:36 AM
Thanks for the link

mummyman
02-16-2017, 12:01 PM
This is a great watch! Never touched Houdini, but it does look amazing. Might have to start looking into it. A co worker is loving it so far

Thomas Helzle
02-16-2017, 12:05 PM
For what you do it should be bliss ;-)
Everything procedural, amazing simulation options, everything working with everything...

Cheers,

Tom

Oedo 808
02-16-2017, 12:51 PM
Everything working with everything..? That sounds like...






:eek:

Thomas Helzle
02-16-2017, 12:59 PM
Hehehehe - yeah, quite an alien concept in LW-land ;-)

Cheers,

Tom

Signal to Noise
02-16-2017, 03:04 PM
Houdini Indie is on my "to buy" list. We have long weekend here in the North Country and I just may get it now rather than wait for the official 16 on Tuesday.

mummyman
02-17-2017, 07:21 AM
For what you do it should be bliss ;-)
Everything procedural, amazing simulation options, everything working with everything...

Cheers,

Tom

I'm getting too old for this sh*t. Gotta keep learning though. Would hate to not use LW because of the speed. Just would have to figure out how to juggle both.. No way I'd learn Houdini has well as LW. It does look promising. How's Houdini's renderer? Looks interesting. But can it handle tons of scene objects like Layout can? Just wondering if it will chug after lots of info.

TheLexx
02-17-2017, 08:19 AM
How's Houdini's renderer? Looks interesting.Just to say that Redshift for Houdini (https://www.redshift3d.com/blog/redshift-releases-integration-for-sidefx-houdini?utm_source=Redshift+newsletter+list&utm_campaign=fde6d1dcda-Redshift_February_2017_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_27bd7d3993-fde6d1dcda-4000649)is now officially released. I am committed to learning Lightwave and look forward to LW Next, but anyone using Houdini will now be in digital heaven.

mummyman
02-17-2017, 08:31 AM
I did see that... the Redshift users here will be excited.. once they get used to Houdini.

Thomas Helzle
02-17-2017, 09:32 AM
Mantra is very capable for heavy stuff - it's used for a lot of the blockbuster special effects one sees in the movies and of course supports all the features of Houdini - but it's also on the slow side for "normal" work, at least in 15.5. They announced a speedup in 16, but just how much I don't know yet.
But yeah, Redshift can take care of that. I haven't bought it myself yet, but it's more flexible than Octane and has some tricks for larger assets that are too big for the GPU that most other renderers miss so far.

I personally enjoy learning Houdini more than anything I did in 3D in ages...
It's on a totally different level from your usual 3D app. I don't think I miss anything but the renderer from Lightwave.

Cheers,

Tom

mummyman
02-17-2017, 12:27 PM
Floating studio license @ 7 grand.. ouch.

Thomas Helzle
02-17-2017, 12:33 PM
Yep.
If Indie works for you, that is a very sweet deal (it's what I use). The core version is also affordable. The big version is quite hefty and geared at the big studios.

Cheers,

Tom

mummyman
02-17-2017, 12:40 PM
Ya.. I'm jumping the gun. But where I'm at we all use different tools and are trying to convert a little more to something more streamlined that everyone can use. But hopefully I can carve some time out to start poking around in it. Thanks for the info!

Paul_Boland
02-17-2017, 07:23 PM
Houdini reel. Very impressive!!
https://vimeo.com/158526068

inkpen3d
02-18-2017, 05:11 AM
This is the link to the skip-less version of the launch event live-stream: https://vimeo.com/203373373

ianr
02-18-2017, 07:06 AM
In an E mail a few days ago :RedShift 4 Houdini

So Juan has wipped it up a great-time.

Well Done Juanjgon, SEE E mail body below:

Redshift releases integration for SideFX Houdini

After a thorough development process, we’re delighted to officially launch Redshift for SideFX Houdini.
Redshift can now stand as the rendering backbone to the incredible procedural animation Houdini enables.
Houdini is a powerful all-in-one 3D application combining modeling, animation, rigging, compositing and more.
It’s used by a wide range of CG artists around the globe in industries such as film, TV, games, advertising and beyond.
This brand new Houdini plugin puts industry-leading GPU-accelerated rendering performance into the hands of Houdini users the world over.

Key Houdini integration features
• Hair and Fur – Support of the Houdini curve primitives,
• that are extracted as RS hair objects.
• Houdini primitives – Automatic and configurable tessellation of the Houdini primitive surfaces (primitives, nurbs, etc.)
• Instancing/particles – Support of the Houdini instancing, including the Instance OBJ node, and the “instance” and
“instancepath” attributes, extracted as RS Instances or RS Point Clouds
• User Data Attributes – Support for arbitrary user data attributes per object or instance,
enabling shading variation without requiring different materials
• Strands – Render of any kind of Houdini primitive as RS strands
• Volumes – Direct rendering of OpenVDB files and the Houdini Volume and VDB primitives.
Support of volume instancing and velocity grids
• Non-GUI tools – The plugin is compatible with all the Houdini non-GUI tools (hython, hscript, etc.)
and includes a set of custom HScript commands to control the renderer.

If you have an up to date Redshift maintenance contract, this upgrade is available to you as standard.

mummyman
02-18-2017, 10:40 AM
This is the link to the skip-less version of the launch event live-stream: https://vimeo.com/203373373

Wow... an hour and 37 mins in. The terrain stuff. Very cool

bazsa73
02-18-2017, 02:20 PM
I am rendered speechless. Awesome.

TheLexx
02-18-2017, 06:18 PM
This is the link to the skip-less version of the launch event live-stream: https://vimeo.com/203373373
I am far from taming LW, so I felt like a kid on a school trip to NASA or something, but a stunning presentation. At 0:42:25, he takes aim at Autodesk for the aftermath of Softimage. An understated quality where they just let their stuff do the talking. Just remarkable.

Thomas Helzle
02-19-2017, 05:28 AM
Yeah, loved that too ;-)
Since I am one of those XSI users left without a home and no interest to move into one of the bad stepfathers other expensive but otherwise unattractive mansions, I think they actually do a really good job. The node-based ICE network in XSI was very special, but in the meantime I personally think that Houdini is actually better, since it has nodes and proceduralism at it's core and no AD overlord to hamper it's development.
What Houdini can't match so far is the very good SDS modelling in XSI, which for me to this day is pretty much the best - and the only reason I still open my old XSI license every now and then. But they try and it's already pretty cool.

Exactly the way they go about it, that lighthearted, marketing-by-facts approach made the event even dearer to me... :-)

Autodesk would spread what is in Houdini 16 over something like 5 or 10 years I guess, not pack it into a .5 update from 15.5.

I even consider buying core in addition to my indie license, since a lot of what I do isn't FX-centric anyway.

Cheers,

Tom

Reco
02-19-2017, 10:35 AM
I even consider buying core in addition to my indie license, since a lot of what I do isn't FX-centric anyway.


I’m into Houdini mainly for the FX ocean options. Nature FX was my favorite LW plugin. I still have it, but it is 32 bit and no longer available. As far as I know, the person responsible for this plugin is a part of LW 3d group so it shouldn’t be impossible to make it a part of LW.

The CGI ocean in “The Guardian” was done using LW and Nature FX
http://www.flashfilmworks.com/d-guardian.htm

LW/Nature FX was uased in Deep Blue sea as well.
http://www.donjmyers.com/images/mainimages/deepblueseahires.jpg


Here is a few Nature FX threads
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?145256-Water-and-Underwater-Features&highlight=reco
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?147555-Houdini-15/page3

Requests for a 64-bit version of Nature FX leads to nothing, so I decided to learn Houdini.

Side FX has managed to create an enormous enthusiastic atmosphere around their software. There’s nothing like it in any other camps at the moment.
I hope LW 3D group see Houdini/Houdini engine as great opportunity, and not a threat.
I would like to have Houdini engine for Lightwave, or some kind of dynamic link.

Here is a thread regarding Houdini Engine for Lightwave /poll.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?145684-Houdini-Engine-for-Lightwave



Reco

TheLexx
02-19-2017, 11:04 AM
Exactly the way they go about it, that lighthearted, marketing-by-facts approach made the event even dearer to me... :-)Yes, the Dr Tyrell factor, with the right pinch of humour. The "gag" at 0:52:34 (https://vimeo.com/203373373#t=52m34s)was all the more hilarious for being just so bad. I'm afraid I laughed out loud. Strangely enough, my wife who has no particular interest in 3D walked past the computer and it had her attention. I envy you guys, and I don't expect those levels to be in LW Next but am looking more forward to it now.

Signal to Noise
02-19-2017, 12:16 PM
In an E mail a few days ago :RedShift 4 Houdini

.....

Interesting. I'm still not sold on a gpu-only renderer. I can see it getting pretty crazy expensive loading up on video cards as opposed to ram/CPU. Would prefer Redshift being a hybrid renderer such as Thea. I still intend to purchase Houdini Indie and give it a whirl before buying a 3rd party renderer. Ideally I'll get one that yields good results with both Houdini & LW.

jasonwestmas
02-19-2017, 12:44 PM
Interesting. I'm still not sold on a gpu-only renderer. I can see it getting pretty crazy expensive loading up on video cards as opposed to ram/CPU. Would prefer Redshift being a hybrid renderer such as Thea. I still intend to purchase Houdini Indie and give it a whirl before buying a 3rd party renderer. Ideally I'll get one that yields good results with both Houdini & LW.

If you're not opposed to using learning two render engines. . . For bigger scenes I've found I like to prototype-model my scenes rendering previews with Redshift mainly because its previewer is so snappy. Then I can render final details using any other CPU renderer. It's more setup but I think it saves time in the long run for bigger jobs. Also know that something like Redshift has the capability to render using the onboard ram if you ever run out of VRam. That was the number one reason I've avoided GPU solutions in the past.

MichaelT
02-19-2017, 01:41 PM
On Tuesday I'll be off the grid.. I might even be lost for a while :)

Thomas Helzle
02-19-2017, 02:35 PM
In Tuesday I'll be off the grid.. I might even be lost for a while :)

Ditto here :-)

Yeah, Thea would be great to have integrated in Houdini, but I recently inquired about a Thea plugin for H and got a very non-committal answer from them. But keep asking and maybe that will change.

I use GPU/CPU rendering with Thea a lot and have no qualms there. For a freelancer, it's quite brilliant compared to the need of having to have a renderfarm. I plug in another GPU if a job needs it and pays for it. That then will benefit me in more and more other software areas as well, Houdini 16 will now use OpenCL a lot, Affinity software uses the GPU, Davinci Resolve, Substance...
Since CPUs have almost stopped getting faster (looking forward to the new AMDs though), GPUs are a better investment ATM IMO and much easier to replace than other PC parts.

Redshift 2.5 sounds interesting and maybe Octane 3.1 with the open shading will make it more feasible for Houdini... I'm in no hurry ATM. Mantra is good to know well too.

Cheers,

Tom

allabulle
02-21-2017, 03:24 AM
Is anyone importing scenes to render and tweak in LightWave from Houdini (and the other way around?? Is there some place for tips and tricks using both in tandem?
I'm seriously thinking about adding Houdini 16 to my tool set to work alongside LightWave. Since there are a few already doing that I was wondering before starting a new thread if there's a place already set-up for that very purpose.

I'm using Octane in LightWave almost exclusively, but for cel shading scenes. It would be great if I could stay there for rendering, but I'm afraid it's not going to be that straight forward.

Reco
02-21-2017, 03:45 AM
Is anyone importing scenes to render and tweak in LightWave from Houdini (and the other way around?? Is there some place for tips and tricks using both in tandem?
I'm seriously thinking about adding Houdini 16 to my tool set to work alongside LightWave. Since there are a few already doing that I was wondering before starting a new thread if there's a place already set-up for that very purpose.

I'm using Octane in LightWave almost exclusively, but for cel shading scenes. It would be great if I could stay there for rendering, but I'm afraid it's not going to be that straight forward.


For me it is the other way around. And I have explained my LW to Houdini procedure in the thread below.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?151032-How-do-you-bring-LW-scenes-(no-animation)-into-Houdini-these-days&highlight=reco



Reco

allabulle
02-21-2017, 03:54 AM
Thanks, Reco. I'll take a look.

Thomas Helzle
02-21-2017, 04:26 AM
Alembic and FBX work quite well in most cases. Some Alembics LW doesn't like though and it simply crashes.
But I haven't used this pipeline much so I can't contribute in-depth knowledge on what works and what doesn't.

But: there is Octane for Houdini too...

Cheers,

Tom

allabulle
02-21-2017, 04:58 AM
Thanks Thomas.

At the beginning I'd like to stay in LightWave for rendering, just for convenience. So I don't need to delve into shading in Houdini or Octane for Houdini for that matter. I'd like to try some simulations and animation in Houdini, and see how can I export to LightWave for shading and rendering either using Octane or the native when needed. The point is to streamline the adoption and focus on the key points I'm most interested in Houdini. I don't plan on modeling in Houdini much either. So yes, I'll try Alembic and FBX along OBJ (I suspect it doesn't import lwo's (haven't checked it, though)).

Thaks again.

Waiting for the launch of Houdini 16. It should be today, as announced in the video presentation.

MichaelT
02-21-2017, 05:17 AM
They probably mean American timezone, so if that is the case.. late evening for us Europeans.

Reco
02-21-2017, 05:18 AM
Houdini supports LWO import and export. However, Importing geometry is not a problem.
The link I refer to in my previous post is an FBX LWS import to Houdini with geometry, animation, lights, camera and texture (as long as it is UV mapped).
I have not tried to get it back into Lightwave. As mentioned before, I'm using Houdini for oceans, and no shader in Lightwave can match the Houdini ocean shader.
Well, maybe some cleaver person can do it in Lightwave, but I cant. In Houdini, the engineers has done it for me.


Reco

Paul_Boland
02-21-2017, 05:22 AM
For me it is the other way around. And I have explained my LW to Houdini procedure in the thread below.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?151032-How-do-you-bring-LW-scenes-(no-animation)-into-Houdini-these-days&highlight=reco

After reading this thread it sounds like it's not easy to move scenes between Lightwave and Houdini is not very straight forward.

MichaelT
02-21-2017, 05:36 AM
After reading this thread it sounds like it's not easy to move scenes between Lightwave and Houdini is not very straight forward.

Export the scene as FBX (for example) with only one frame. That should do the trick. Depends on how you intend to use Houdini of course. For myself, I'd only be interested in the VFX part. So I would need the meshes from the scene for collision purposes etc..

Reco
02-21-2017, 05:57 AM
Importing Lightwave scenes and objects is straight forward. Scenes via FBX, and object via LWO, OBJ etc. It is not straight forward to get a simulated scene back into Lightwave. At the moment the best option in my opinion is to render the scene in Lightwave, then render the simulation in Houdini and comp it in Fusion, After Effect, nuke etc.

Houdini engine for Lightwave would have been a game changer regarding the LW/Houdini workflow.
Who knows what the next LW will bring to the table. We know it will have some kind of open vdb support. That can simplify the process even more.

Take a look at Houdini Engine for Cinema 4D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8vbmugKjCs




Reco

Reco
02-21-2017, 06:47 AM
Some info regarding Lightwave and Open VDB
Quote Rob Powers: "With the new added support for the latest version of the OpenVDB, format in the next LightWave, release it is now possible to import simulation data from any other software that properly supports the OpenVDB standard."

Link here: https://blog.lightwave3d.com/2016/12/openvdb-support/

Open VDB Houdini:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1Gb7-FrNck

Houdini open VDB Cinema 4D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFB6r6_SUzQ

Reco

Paul_Boland
02-21-2017, 06:50 AM
Great, thanks for the updates.

MichaelT
02-21-2017, 06:56 AM
Importing Lightwave scenes and objects is straight forward. Scenes via FBX, and object via LWO, OBJ etc. It is not straight forward to get a simulated scene back into Lightwave. At the moment the best option in my opinion is to render the scene in Lightwave, then render the simulation in Houdini and comp it in Fusion, After Effect, nuke etc.

Houdini engine for Lightwave would have been a game changer regarding the LW/Houdini workflow.
Who knows what the next LW will bring to the table. We know it will have some kind of open vdb support. That can simplify the process even more.

Take a look at Houdini Engine for Cinema 4D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8vbmugKjCs




Reco

I'm interested in the MDD, which is possible to both export from Houdini, and import to Lightwave. Chronosculpt is a great tool to use for that as well.

Thomas Helzle
02-21-2017, 07:14 AM
I never was able to export anything as LWO from Houdini - it just gave me a file with 0 kb in size. I also read on Odforce that LWO is completely broken in Houdini and it only supported the old LW 5.6 format, which wouldn't make much sense anyway. But I didn't try any longer after the initial export failed completely - did anybody here get LWO to work?

So for those looking into Houdini, here are some links to the best learning stuff I found:
http://forums.odforce.net/
An absolutely brilliant Houdini forum with tons of extremely capable people and tons of helpful threads and file downloads.
I mostly lurk there.
(Be aware that their search function is somewhat broken. If you search for multiple shorter words you may get zero results. The engine creates Item+Item+Item from your search. If you delete the + signs and replace them with spaces, it often works... ;-) ).

Entagma does some of the best tutorials for Houdini:
http://www.entagma.com/page/4/
This link points to the older tutorials, since it's best to start from the beginning - later videos explain less of the basics while the older ones go also for core concepts.
https://vimeo.com/entagma/videos/page:4/sort:date/format:thumbnail
The same directly on Vimeo.

And of course the Tutorials on the SideFX page:
https://www.sidefx.com/tutorials/
Here you have to check yourself, since not all of them are from SideFX, they also link to 3rd party content and they can be of varying levels of clarity and to-the-point-ness.

One of the best things about Houdini (IMO) is VEX, the scripting language you use in the so called "Wrangles". If you already have the basics of scripting down, this tutorial may help you get into it:
https://www.sidefx.com/tutorials/houdini-illume-webinar-vex/
It's not the clearest presentation ever but I got a lot out of it anyway.

My absolute favourite page is probably this:
http://www.tokeru.com/cgwiki/index.php?title=Houdini#
This guy gives you tons of small bites about Houdini, how to solve certain problems etc. and it's so compact and to the point and comes with downloadable files, it's amazing.
The "Houdini" menu on top has a lot of different topics covered.

I hope this keeps you busy until 16 shows up :-)

Cheers,

Tom

allabulle
02-21-2017, 07:22 AM
Thanks a lot. That for sure will keep me busy for a couple of minutes, yes. :-)

I don't use nor planning to use Cinema4D, but thanks anyway, Reco. I'll see other stuff regarding the Houdini Engine to see what it does or what could it do in LightWave.

Thomas Helzle
02-21-2017, 07:31 AM
What also is interesting (not sure if it came up here already or not) is that you get three licenses for the Houdini Engine for free with Indie that you can use to a.) render with Mantra and b.) to simulate with multiple machines. The setup is a bit complicated but I got it to work with the help of their support staff (you get installation support for Indie, no production support).
This means you can render and simulate on four machines with "Hqueue" which can of course make a big difference if you have the hardware.

And you can buy up to 3 Indie licenses if you make less than 100.000 $ a year...

One crux is, that you can't transfer the license, so if you have a laptop, their advice is to buy a second license. Still a good deal, but feels a bit inflexible on the gut level - not a big fan of node-locking here.

Cheers,

Tom

MichaelT
02-21-2017, 07:31 AM
According to Houdini (SideFX) themselves, exporting to LWO was never supported. I would issue a bug request actually, to either remove the option to save to a file that doesn't work.. or have them actually fix it. It is not a major hurdle however, as you can export to other formats that LW actually can load.

MichaelT
02-21-2017, 07:34 AM
The one thing that Houdini needs is a glossary.. VOP, SOP, craps blablabl :)

Reco
02-21-2017, 07:42 AM
a.) render with Mantra and b.) to simulate with multiple machines. The setup is a bit complicated but I got it to work with the help of their support staff (you get installation support for Indie, no production support).
This means you can render and simulate on four machines with "Hqueue" which can of course make a big difference if you have the hardware.


Tom

How did you do it? I have tried, with no success.


Reco

Thomas Helzle
02-21-2017, 08:02 AM
How did you do it? I have tried, with no success.

Yeah, it was a stony road. 5 Million miles away from the ease of setup of Thea Render network rendering which is pretty much one click... Typical big-studio-admin-stuff ;-)

First there was a bug that prevented the HQueueClient and -Server to be able to install in a custom path. This is solved in the latest versions (I never install stuff in C:/).
So after you installed both the Client and the Server on your main machine (and make sure they are running and throw no errors) and created a shared folder that can be accessed from all your other machines with the installer, you install the Houdini and the HQueueClient on all clients (I did not try the shared installation).
Important is, that all the paths are the same on all machines.
Then you need to make sure the Client runs correctly on the client machines and can contact the running HQueue on the Server and access the shared folder. You probably need to create a Firewall rule on the server to let traffic on port 5000 (if you use the default) through.
Make sure the client does not throw errors as well.
Then you check the docs on how to setup and save your files. Basically you create a Hqueue Render/Simulate node in your scene and save into the shared folder. In theory the node should automate that, but it often failed in my experiments to gather the used textures etc.
But if all of it is setup correctly, Hqueue is actually a nice manager that runs in your browser on http://localhost:5000 on the server.

Give yourself some time to hack through the steps, it feels like setting up network rendering back in the 90ies...

Oh, and you have to "buy" the 3 licenses for the Engine Clients on the same page as Indie for free (for now). They are also nodelocked...

I tried it with Windows 8.1 x64 on my main machine and my Laptop running Windows 10.

Cheers,

Tom

P.S. If you have more questions, maybe let's move over to Odforce. Create a thread there and link me to it, I'm happy to help and many others have problems too, so it's better to host it where it belongs instead of here ;-)

Signal to Noise
02-21-2017, 08:15 AM
...
So for those looking into Houdini, here are some links to the best learning stuff I found:
....
Cheers,

Tom

Cool beans! Thanks for compiling this. My finger is in the "Buy Houdini 16 Indie" button as soon as it's available.

Reco
02-21-2017, 08:23 AM
Thank you Thomas

My setup was identical as you describe it, but the HQueue could only find one client, and that was the machine I was working on. (server).

But I missed the part regarding 3 licenses for the Engine Clients.
I will give it another try though.

I have used Gridmarkets. Easy to use, but expensive in the long run.
http://www.gridmarkets.com/houdini

I,m hoping for a good solution in order to bring simulated scenes back into Lightwave for rendering.


Reco

Thomas Helzle
02-21-2017, 08:41 AM
Yes, each engine client needs it's own license. The documentation on that is pretty much non-existing. And when buying Indie, I did not understand that I need to "buy" the three engine licenses "for free" as well, since at that time I thought the engine is only relevant for users of Maya, C4D or Unity and Unreal...
Pretty unclear documentation/communication on that, not sure why.

But you can "buy" those licenses afterwards no problem if you are logged in with the same account.

Cheers,

Tom

Marander
02-21-2017, 09:17 AM
Thanks Thomas for all the information and links, very useful!

Thomas Helzle
02-21-2017, 09:26 AM
You are very welcome :-)

BTW, Renderman / RIS is also integrated in Houdini, the free version works.
You can also use 3Delight although that is badly documented (but they are working on improving it).
Other Renderman compatibles should also work (Mantra originally is Reyes-based as well, although the newer modes (PBR etc.) no longer use that architecture AFAIK).

Cheers,

Tom

MichaelT
02-21-2017, 09:39 AM
According to SideFX, the new version should be out in about half an hour or more :) Hmmm... I think I'm like a kid waiting for presents hahaha.

Thomas Helzle
02-21-2017, 09:51 AM
Hehehe - yeah, didn't have so much of a Christmas feeling in a long time ;-)
Doing Tutorials in the meantime...

Cheers,

Tom

- - - Updated - - -

It's out!
Downloading...

Cheers,

Tom

Reco
02-21-2017, 09:53 AM
Downloading Production Build 16.0.504.20

Reco

Thomas Helzle
02-21-2017, 10:06 AM
https://www.sidefx.com/filmtv/whats-new/

allabulle
02-21-2017, 10:08 AM
Downloading too.

inkpen3d
02-21-2017, 10:10 AM
The one thing that Houdini needs is a glossary.. VOP, SOP, craps blablabl :)

This might help you wade through the acronyms:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houdini_(software)

allabulle
02-21-2017, 10:25 AM
Great, the official documentation link goes to a dead link. Brilliant!

MichaelT
02-21-2017, 10:51 AM
Oh dear, their modeling tools are better now too. I think I will vanish for a while :)

Or not.. that didn't take long. Definitely still have work to do in that regard. But anyway, many new fun things to play with :)

Crashed :( I probably shouldn't be so aggressive when I test things out :) Bad habit of mine, the tool doesn't exist that I haven't managed to crash.

allabulle
02-21-2017, 11:41 AM
The tool-crasher!

allabulle
02-21-2017, 01:41 PM
Documentation for the v16 is on-line finally.

Thomas Helzle
02-22-2017, 02:34 AM
Those Terrain tools are awesome - and not only if you apply them for their obvious use ...

"Flow my tears"

...erode away those inner mountains, blocks and boulders, leaving behind the real me...

http://www.screendream.de/data/uploads/3d/TheFlowOfTears.jpg

So yeah, LW3Dgroup, make sure you make the interaction with Houdini solid in the next version...

Cheers,

Tom

allabulle
02-22-2017, 03:16 AM
Beautiful!

And yes, it could be really useful if the next LightWave (or some subsequent iteration) would be able to integrate the Houdini Engine.

Reco
02-22-2017, 04:09 AM
Very nice image. I haven't touched the terrain tool yet.


Reco

allabulle
02-22-2017, 05:15 AM
OK, so brand new Houdini 16 Apprentice installed. Help menu? Nope, nothing there (the previous version showed the manual there.) Importing an OBJ, seems to be there, lets try to zoom in aaaand... CRASH! All gone but for a window asking to send a crash report. Wow, that was unexpected. So there you go, it's always something, but no software is perfect and no group of engineers have just nailed it. If the LW3DG launched a brand new super-duper amazing next LightWave and this happened I can imagine what a thread like this would be like. :-)

The on-line manual seems to be there now for the new version. Before it went to nothing, then pointed to the prior version with some broken links still there. It's on-line now for the new 16 version... with typos, missing pictures...

Still, I think I'll be getting the Indie license next month, after some trial period to see if it really fits my work-flow.

MichaelT
02-22-2017, 06:31 AM
yup, love the terrain tools. Just watching the terrain evolve over time, and be able to pick that special frame is really great. This tool is fantastic.
The downside however is that it very easily becomes too massive for it to handle very well. (removed the rest.. because this isn't the Houdini site after all :) )

Reco
02-22-2017, 08:48 AM
OK, so brand new Houdini 16 Apprentice installed. Help menu? Nope, nothing there (the previous version showed the manual there.) Importing an OBJ, seems to be there, lets try to zoom in aaaand... CRASH! All gone but for a window asking to send a crash report. Wow, that was unexpected. So there you go, it's always something, but no software is perfect and no group of engineers have just nailed it. If the LW3DG launched a brand new super-duper amazing next LightWave and this happened I can imagine what a thread like this would be like. :-)

The on-line manual seems to be there now for the new version. Before it went to nothing, then pointed to the prior version with some broken links still there. It's on-line now for the new 16 version... with typos, missing pictures...

Still, I think I'll be getting the Indie license next month, after some trial period to see if it really fits my work-flow.

Well it's a special software for good and for worse. It's living its own life. It can do so many things that other software can't do or not intended to do. Houdini has been buggy for many years. Version 14 was the worst one. More than a few bugs has been related to the video card driver. It will never be my main application, but it's a great additional toolset.

However. It's ok on my side. I have the manual too. I'm testing it on a laptop using the apprentice version. Haven't install Indie yet.


Reco

allabulle
02-22-2017, 10:01 AM
Yes, I concur: great to have it for its strenghts (like any other software, really) and not too much to worry or stress about. I think it'll be a fine combination with LightWave and some Blender for me. So far I'm liking it. A bit different, sure, as all other programs are. Again, no such thing as standard when it comes to 3D. Different navigation, interface, and the whole paradigm. Once used to it I can see much potential in Houdini (for my needs, at least.)

Oh, and the in-app manual suddenly appeared in his originally blank window. Go figure. :)

Marander
02-22-2017, 10:57 AM
yup, love the terrain tools. Just watching the terrain evolve over time, and be able to pick that special frame is really great. This tool is fantastic.
The downside however is that it very easily becomes too massive for it to handle very well. (removed the rest.. because this isn't the Houdini site after all :) )

Yes the terrain tools look interesting and I like the workspace they created for it.

But man, stabilty... I had a crash within some minutes fiddling with the erosion node. I think I'm too spoiled by C4D now, I can't stand working with unstable software anymore. I'll wait for some fixes (which come quick from SideFX anyway) before I give it a go again.

Marander
02-22-2017, 11:30 AM
double post

MichaelT
02-22-2017, 01:02 PM
I now use Houdini to quickly set up a base for a good looking terrain, then export the heightmap into WorldMachine, which is far superior when it comes to dealing with massive maps. But having the map from Houdini, saves time to get the base shape going. For simpler maps, Houdini works just fine by itself.

Marander
02-22-2017, 03:45 PM
I now use Houdini to quickly set up a base for a good looking terrain, then export the heightmap into WorldMachine, which is far superior when it comes to dealing with massive maps. But having the map from Houdini, saves time to get the base shape going. For simpler maps, Houdini works just fine by itself.

Yes I use WorldMachine Pro with Vue xStream and C4D Forester which works great for me in general, I'm not missing anything.

But WM didn't have an update for more than a year (until a few days ago). I'm not sure if I will keep updating it because, similar story as with NewTek, absolute dev silence for more than a year, now the developer apologized and promised more updates in future. Nevertheless it's a good application as-is for me.

Vue 2016 is still quite buggy and even though I have the upgrade with maintenance I'm still using 2015 due to its better stability. The new erosion metanodes in Vue 2016 don't really work for me yet as well as most other new features. I'm sure future fixpacks will fix those.

I think for very special types of terrains, infinite landscapes with much variety in themselves, melting with other geometry and/or physics interaction, Houdini could be unbeatable due to it's flexibility and procedural concept (not that I think anytime soon I will need this).

When I watched the H16 presentation I noticed similar terrain types like in WM initially, but they can be blended much better and smoother with each other in my opinion. I have only very basic knowledge of Houdini and it will take me much time to achieve anything useful I guess.

Thomas Helzle
02-23-2017, 06:49 AM
Yeah, H16 shows quite some bugs, but for the massive changes they did, it works well enough here after I settled on the Qt4 version - needs quite some getting used to though, since they split up some nodes etc..
I'll keep my 15.5 installed until 16 is fully there.
Sadly, Mantra isn't really much faster for me, so I think I'll have to decide on a GPU renderer at one point - exporting doesn't work in all cases.
Overall I'm quite happy though, I personally love software that actually evolves at a clearly visible pace, even if it throws me some obstacles.

Cheers,

Tom

Reco
02-23-2017, 07:50 AM
Sadly, Mantra isn't really much faster for me, so I think I'll have to decide on a GPU renderer at one point - exporting doesn't work in all cases.


I haven’t notice any improvement on Mantra either, but I’m not ready for the GPU route.
On the other hand, I would love to be able to render Houdini stuff in Lightwave. I can hardly wait for the next LW release. I am sure it will give us an indication of the direction the development of LW will take.

Reco

allabulle
02-23-2017, 09:30 AM
It seems that with an Indie license one can only install and use Houdini in one computer. A pity, because sometimes I need to change machine, like in LightWave. Anyway, can I install the same Indie license in Windows and Linux on the same machine?

Edit: I probably should ask Sidefx's customer service. Sorry if it bothers anyone here.

Signal to Noise
02-23-2017, 11:45 AM
It seems that with an Indie license one can only install and use Houdini in one computer. A pity, because sometimes I need to change machine, like in LightWave. Anyway, can I install the same Indie license in Windows and Linux on the same machine?

Edit: I probably should ask Sidefx's customer service. Sorry if it bothers anyone here.

Yes, I saw that in their EULA/FAQ and there is a discussion pertaining to this on the SideFX forum. However I did come across a FAQ in regards to running a local license server rather than network which is apparently recommended for Apprentice & Indie users.

https://www.sidefx.com/faq/apprentice-local-licensing/

I have not tried this myself as I have not bought Indie yet, However I'm wondering if using a Local license polling option could indeed provide the ability of having Houdini installed on two computers with the same license file stored on each machine? I want to be able to run Houdini on a laptop and desktop (not at the same time) much like most other software vendors allow you to do. This is why I have not purchased Indie yet because I need to decide which system I want to install on in lieu of buying two subscription licenses.

Anyone able to give it a try and report back?

MichaelT
02-23-2017, 03:27 PM
Hmm, I can render times below 2 minutes in Mantra. Much like I could in C4D when I used it. Or Lightwave for that matter. You need to tweak the out settings of mantra a bit to get those times. Granted it does still have a little noise in them, but that is easy to fix, with added render time of course. But in the end, it depends on what you are rendering of course :)

mummyman
02-23-2017, 08:44 PM
How are their shaders? Subsurface scattering any good?

MichaelT
02-24-2017, 05:58 AM
How are their shaders? Subsurface scattering any good?

Looks good to me.. but I honestly also have too little experience in Houdini in that area. It is a very (very) big program after all. But perhaps someone here with a deeper knowledge in that part of Houdini can say something about that?

mummyman
02-24-2017, 07:16 AM
I'm sure I'll find stuff once I begin tackling learning anything in it. Plus it can use Redshift, which some use here.. so there's the subsurfacey look I guess right there. Thanks!

Reco
02-24-2017, 07:44 AM
I’m using Houdini mostly for the VFX part, so I don’t have much experience with the shaders. Most of the time I’m using the default settings. However, Houdini shaders
have a good reputation, and VEX experts can create impressive materials. But that’s the case with Lightwave as well.

Below are a few test renders using the skin shader. Mantra is slllooowww.
You will be better off, by render this kind of stuff in Lightwave.
136087

Even if I don’t like to model in Houdini, I must admit that the new boolean tools are amazing. Clean and animatable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwsMzw-4tik


Reco

mummyman
02-24-2017, 08:06 AM
Yikes.. that's what I was wondering. I appreciate the feedback. I'm assuming your machine is fairly fast also. Ya, Redshift would speed that up very nicely.

allabulle
02-24-2017, 08:24 AM
I was wondering also how good is Renderman in Houdini. How well integrated is and how fast in comparison with Mantra. It even has a de-noiser. And it's not too expensive either.

Reco
02-24-2017, 08:35 AM
Yikes.. that's what I was wondering. I appreciate the feedback. I'm assuming your machine is fairly fast also. Ya, Redshift would speed that up very nicely.

PC spec.
Intel Core i7-6700K Skylake Prosessor 4.0GHz, 8MB
DDR4 64GB Ram
ASUS GeForce GTX 1070 DUAL OC

I have no experience when it comes to GPU rendering so I cant give you any info regarding Redshift.
But I can tell you that I miss Lightwave every time I open up Mantra, and I miss the VPR. Hopefully we will be able to render Houdini stuff inside Lightwave in the future.

Reco

mummyman
02-24-2017, 08:51 AM
Ya.. VPR is pretty awesome.. Redshift is pretty darn fast for rendering though. Makes LW look shameful speed-wise for some things. Especially subsurface!

- - - Updated - - -


I’m using Houdini mostly for the VFX part, so I don’t have much experience with the shaders. Most of the time I’m using the default settings. However, Houdini shaders
have a good reputation, and VEX experts can create impressive materials. But that’s the case with Lightwave as well.

Below are a few test renders using the skin shader. Mantra is slllooowww.
You will be better off, by render this kind of stuff in Lightwave.
136087

Even if I don’t like to model in Houdini, I must admit that the new boolean tools are amazing. Clean and animatable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwsMzw-4tik


Reco

Oh.. by the way.. that boolean stuff is very neat. But, how would you get that back out to Layout for rendering? If that's a full / tree / node setup?

MichaelT
02-24-2017, 09:03 AM
You can set up an export node, and write out the final result as a file. Keep in mind though that LWO out isn't (and have never been) supported by Houdini. Despite it being in there as an option. Which is rather annoying to be perfectly honest. But you can of course use other file formats LW can import.

mummyman
02-24-2017, 09:44 AM
True..

Thomas Helzle
02-28-2017, 03:23 AM
Yeah, Mantra is brutally slow and only really works for animations if you have a renderfarm in my experience.
You can for instance not really render DOF economically, since it needs _very_ high base-sample settings otherwise it never clears. The adaptive sampling is not helping one bit in that regard.
If you can live with noise, it's maybe okay, but for really clean renders, the rendertimes can be extreme.

So yeah, Redshift ATM is the way to go IMO.
Octane so far is very limited in Houdini.

I tried the free Renderman a bit. Since Mantra was also Reyes based originally, Renderman fits in well and all the new stuff is supported too (RIS). Integration is pretty good, but I'm not a Renderman expert and didn't dig too deep. But Houdini always had native Renderman support, so it's built right in. The latest RM 21.3 only works for me in the Qt4 version of Houdini 16 though, because of problems with interfering Qt versions(not totally clear yet, but I can't run the Qt5 version at all on my machine).
Not sure if I personally would go for RM. I like their new approach, but while the speed looked better than Mantra to me, it's not GPU accelerated, so plays on another level.

Cheers,

Tom

allabulle
02-28-2017, 06:31 AM
By the way, Thomas, I saw your last (?) render on the houdini front page. Great render, congratulations.

Thomas Helzle
02-28-2017, 06:38 AM
Thanks,

that is really nice about the Houdini Gallery that they show the work so prominent... :-)

Cheers,

Tom