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prometheus
01-07-2017, 05:26 PM
Since some of us were polluting another thread, and since my original thread about volumetrics was vaporized in the big forum crash, I will start this again..

And to answer this question from jwiede..

What kind of render time (and at what rendered dimensions) did that require? Any idea what the same shot would be for everything except HV's?


Had to locate the scenes, but this one is just a slight change of light angle..
check rendertimes of these printscreens, so the render with the voxel fog item to produce some godrays/volumetric light but without any volumetric light at all, that is considerably slower compared to without and just using the clouds casting shadows.

Remember this is with radiosity on and sk_ sunlight and lightsamples of 5 at 1080x 720 res yielding 2min 2 seconds without the hv fog item, and with the hv item for fog/godray volumetrics 48 min 52 seconds.
If I change the light type to dome with proper sun size angle..or to even go faster just use a distant light, Then I would think I could crush it to maybe 25-30 minutes.

Then again, I would redo the rocks to much higher resolution and that would cost more in rendertime I would suspect..depending on if I choose to have them sculpted and freezed or if I choose to apply displacement and subpatch controlled, in these images they are just sculpted without any subpatching..not sure if I sculpted in blender or used the drag texture options in lightwave though..but nevermind critic those, If I were to go further I would redo them a lot, sculpting procedurals and also the texturing for rocks, as well as change the image in the cloud sphere..this one is a bit crappy actually.

thereīs also a slight banding artifact..which may be the cause of the lowest hv quality, or because of that I unchecked volumetric AA for faster hv render.

VPR draft render in viewport is decently fast with a distant light, but much slower with dp _sunlight, maybe 10-20 seconds to get a reasonable feedback on the whole screen, but a little more to finalze vpr draft render.

I just recall why I do not get very far with these thing, it is all the crashes I have with lightwave 2015 since that has been a nightmare for me and simply put me off to work further with it, and 2015 is the only version that can deal with this in decent renders in vpr etc, just had a crash again.

I am hitting the sack now...any questions asked may be answered tomorrow ..got to get me my 9 hours of beauty sleep during the weekend.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135525&d=1483834483


http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135526&d=1483834507

shrox
01-07-2017, 08:02 PM
Gimme scene. Gimme scene now.

Prince Charming
01-07-2017, 08:41 PM
For being so public about not liking my tutorials... You sure didn't seem to mind this one very much. (judging by your own comment on it, and this thread).
You are a very honorable, honest man!
Id be interested to see the scene file as well... Please do share! I wonder how close to the method in my tutorial it is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqMdKdxKWh0

JamesCurtis
01-07-2017, 09:35 PM
Yeah, wouldn't mind the scene here as well, so I can play around with it.

shrox
01-07-2017, 11:06 PM
I meant "please share, friend..."

bazsa73
01-08-2017, 01:43 AM
Is that Fifield coming back from the space jockeys' ship?

prometheus
01-08-2017, 07:56 AM
For being so public about not liking my tutorials... You sure didn't seem to mind this one very much. (judging by your own comment on it, and this thread).
You are a very honorable, honest man!
Id be interested to see the scene file as well... Please do share! I wonder how close to the method in my tutorial it is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqMdKdxKWh0

What on earth are you talking about?
I like some of your tutorials, some I dont fancy that much due to topic or too long tutorials, but why do you make your own projections about what I like or not?? and put out statements to make me look like something you seem to want to portray..?

...regarding this volumetric trick, I knew this trick long before you made yours with dp nodes, I watched it a bit but havenīt followed yours since I found my own way easier to set up.
Your tutorial may be a way to do this more efficient in terms of render speed...but as I said, I havenīt followed your tutoral and itīs not from your tutorial Ivé learned this.
As I understand it...your tutorial isnīt up anymore?


Your tutorial is different..I donīt mess with dp booleans, and if you suspected that I would have ripped your tutorial or technique from your tute..no, go back and rethink..I knew about this technique long before you did your tute.

What I commented on your channel was about the lack of soft edges, in my samples I do not deal with that, itīs either distant light or dome light or sk sunlight, to some degree a map in the dome I am usingcan provide softer distant light, but I havenīt followed anything from you regarding soft light samples, and that light rays are picked up by a volume items I already knew about.

doing it like this with voxels isnīt really feasable with earlier lw versions than 2015, not the way I do it..perhaps with your way with dp booleans, I donīt know.

Spare me your pathetic prince charm contradiction hounorable mentions by calling me an honest and honourable man, your trials of portraying others as pathetich in such way is indeed pathetic in itīs own right, I donīt know what it is with you to constantly have some conspiracy theory or grudge against people that you feel the urge to back it up with a prince charming avatar.

In one of the few post ever communicated here on the forums between you and me, you call me the most selfish person here on the forums, and in this thread you call me a very honourable honest man..so that is how much trustworthy your words are, or isnīt it obvious to see what you are trying to do here? cmmon.. itīs almost as if I ..who am an honest man according to you, should be honest in saying that you have incredible social skills.

Grow up Brian

I donīt have to put the scene up...anyone with your knowledge in lw should be able to just add voxel and make it work without much fuzz, you do not have to though..you could just use your own stuff when needed, and for comparison..you can make such scene yourself as I said and start to analyze how much I have ripped it off, regardless if you now are aware that some folks may have known about this before you did...right ..or at least before you posted your tute.

prometheus
01-08-2017, 08:21 AM
specs..

12 gb ram
nvidia gtx 480
intel pentium i7 960 dual core 3,20 Ghz

Oh by the way..another render with changed light to standard light yielded a slightly faster render result as I suspected, 34 minutes.

prometheus
01-08-2017, 08:27 AM
I meant "please share, friend..."

I may put up a similar scene later, or post privately to you shrox...but not today or this week, I am dog tired today and will be busy with other types of work rest of the week ..but I will try and remember your kind request.
Perhaps prince charming could provide His original tute and scene, though it is slightly different..and it is a tree and a cave I reckon, unless he makes something new.
Apart from the hv volume fog trick item, which is just a large null voxel with minimum settings in volumetrics, the rest that is working for the godrays..it is the transparency plane or two global domes at work to let the rays shine trhough and cast shadows, so itīs not the geometry casting rays..but the mapping within the trans dome.

Prince Charming
01-08-2017, 09:00 AM
I may put up a similar scene later, or post privately to you shrox...but not today or this week, I am dog tired today and will be busy with other types of work rest of the week ..but I will try and remember your kind request.
Perhaps prince charming could provide His original tute and scene, though it is slightly different..and it is a tree and a cave I reckon, unless he makes something new.
Apart from the hv volume fog trick item, which is just a large null voxel with minimum settings in volumetrics, the rest that is working for the godrays..it is the transparency plane or two global domes at work to let the rays shine trhough and cast shadows, so itīs not the geometry casting rays..but the mapping within the trans dome.

Hey bud... I am just going by your own posts on this forum where you brought up my name out of nowhere and proclaimed your dislike for my tutorials. In that post you didn't mention likeing some. I would go quote the post, but I am not wasting my time looking for it... but you know exacly what I am talking about. I am not projecting anything... I am just calling you out on your bull. I can't wait to play with this scene when you share it... but I won't hold my breath, as we have already had that conversation as well! :hey:

shrox
01-08-2017, 11:13 AM
I may put up a similar scene later, or post privately to you shrox...but not today or this week, I am dog tired today and will be busy with other types of work rest of the week ..but I will try and remember your kind request.
Perhaps prince charming could provide His original tute and scene, though it is slightly different..and it is a tree and a cave I reckon, unless he makes something new.
Apart from the hv volume fog trick item, which is just a large null voxel with minimum settings in volumetrics, the rest that is working for the godrays..it is the transparency plane or two global domes at work to let the rays shine trhough and cast shadows, so itīs not the geometry casting rays..but the mapping within the trans dome.

Ok. Thanks.

prometheus
01-08-2017, 11:31 AM
Ok. Thanks.
Your welcome, I do not forget your sharings of the Dante and how humble you always are when occasionally asking/requesting for something.
Your dante model may fit in there as well, It may be that the whole scale of this scene may be too large though.

shrox
01-08-2017, 12:22 PM
Your welcome, I do not forget your sharings of the Dante and how humble you always are when occasionally asking/requesting for something.
Your dante model may fit in there as well, It may be that the whole scale of this scene may be too large though.

Well, maybe it's a big planet!

gerry_g
01-08-2017, 03:36 PM
is it just HV's that crash it for you or are you still resolutely in 32bit mode cuz I find it really stable, well apart from when it crashes but that ant often these days, overall effect is really nice but think the clouds are a tad cg-ish

prometheus
01-08-2017, 11:46 PM
is it just HV's that crash it for you or are you still resolutely in 32bit mode cuz I find it really stable, well apart from when it crashes but that ant often these days, overall effect is really nice but think the clouds are a tad cg-ish


It crashes a lot even without hvīs.

Correct, the clouds ar cg-ish, I mentioned it wrong before..that render wasnīt even a proper cloud map, it was procedurals.so naturally they arenīt as realistic as a map, and what more...I could probably render it much faster if I used a proper cloud map, I will have to polish that scene a bit, and add a true cloud map and extract out an alpha map too for the best effect when that is put on the dome that is transparent in with that map in the channel.
the cgish is mostly due to the procedurals stretching, which I could correct to get better result, but a proper cloud map is better if you find one with the proper sun point origin that you need for the ray angles to match too.

As said..havenīt worked much to refine it with better sculpts and better clouds, partly because of too many crashes in lw 2015.

Michael

gerry_g
01-09-2017, 04:16 AM
not knocking the clouds they look strangely fine in relation to the overall look of the scene which has the charm of a slightly period sci-fi paperback cover to my eyes

Asticles
01-09-2017, 04:57 AM
You should wait until LW2017.

SBowie
01-09-2017, 11:34 AM
Grow up Brian.I'm about to hit "Approve" on Brian's response to your post. I'd not like to think anyone here thinks this means I approve its content.

I do think, though, that - regardless of 'who started it' (man I hate being in elementary school again!) - you are both adding fuel to the fire, and however I might feel about it, this once I'm going to let Brian have the last word. And I do mean last. Please do not stoop to this level, even if provoked. Just let it go, both of you (further moderation will ensue otherwise).

prometheus
01-09-2017, 12:00 PM
[Moderated to remove things that were certain to simply keep the fires burning, while leaving the salient bits having to do with the discussion of moderation broadly.]


I'm about to hit "Approve" on Brian's response to your post. I'd not like to think anyone here thinks this means I approve its content.

I do think, though, that - regardless of 'who started it' (man I hate being in elementary school again!) - you are both adding fuel to the fire, and however I might feel about it, this once I'm going to let Brian have the last word. And I do mean last. Please do not stoop to this level, even if provoked. Just let it go, both of you (further moderation will ensue otherwise).

yep..I may have responded harschly, but ... (SNIP) ... you know I have restrained myself before ... (SNIP) I realize it is must be a difficult task to go in and stop or erase someones comments everywhere, but maybe you guys could put up some routines and suggestions how we can make you aware of it ... so it is easier for you to moderate. (SNIP)

Regardless of who started it?...well, I urge you guys to take a look at the content and who starts attacking, if you donīt well...then I would be really sad if that is how your policy is carried out in moderation, but hey..itīs all up to you, Ill try to adapt or spend less time in this forum or leave if it doesnīt please me.

Michael

prometheus
01-09-2017, 12:15 PM
You should wait until LW2017.


Not sure I am gonna even invest in the next lightwave.

As for sharing some of my files in this topic publicly, I will post to private inbox to the people I feel contribute in a good manner, and then to their private mail, when there is guys acting to ruin a good thread of tips ..my motivation of sharing is ruined as well..
so Iīll keep my sharing with the people that can behave humble, I do not feel like contributing to the forums today and for some future ahead.
Call me selfish or call me cute, and you may get something or not:)

prometheus
01-09-2017, 12:29 PM
not knocking the clouds they look strangely fine in relation to the overall look of the scene which has the charm of a slightly period sci-fi paperback cover to my eyes

he...thatīok, you can call them lousy, crappy...if you do it with a twinkle in your eyes (smiley) because they are..and I can take that since I didnīt really care much about the clouds for just testing briefly.
Cgish is one style you could go for, but not sure, I think the more real look is better suited overall.

prometheus
01-09-2017, 12:38 PM
And for trying to clear my perspecive on brian P tutorials.

Some I really like and some is brilliant, some is not for me ..to long and not straight to the point, never said I do not like his tutorials overall as I can recall, which He indicated I somehow have said..or he has perceived it that way.
I have fully accepted why he took down some tutorials and respected that, even though I rather would have them up.
No..I havenīt used his volumetric trick in terms of ripping of his tutorial, as I said before..I knew about the volumetric hv item tricks before and there is difference in the way we approach it, where he uses dp nodes and focused on soft sampled lights, where I do not use any dp nodes at all and I use transparency domes for casting rays and do not go in to soft or hard shadows..so the focus is on casting rays with dome trans maps, otherwise it is very crude and simple with just an hv item in the scene with proper distance clipping...nothing more to it really.

SBowie
01-09-2017, 02:02 PM
yep..I may have responded harschly, but I simply got tired of his posting that from my perspective in this post and in other post is taken out of nowhere ... snip ... if we should stop personal attacks and stooping low, I would surely like to have seen his comments erased and moderated ... I understand your point, and I know you ordinarily make a good effort not to overstep ... but this has to stop at some point and there's always going to be someone who doesn't get the last word. This time, it was you, sorry. Apart from that, I won't comment on moderation activity involving another party, sorry again.


I realize it is must be a difficult task to go in and stop or erase someones comments everywhere, but maybe you guys could put up some routines and suggestions how we can make you aware of it...so it is easier for you to moderate.It's pretty simple, really. If something is offensive, click the triangle icon below that post to report it. We'll take it from there. The knee-jerk reaction, of course, is to defend oneself, but that invariably get's us into another round. Please just report a post and let the moderators moderate.


Regardless of who started it?...well, I urge you guys to take a look at the content and who starts attacking, if you donīt well...I happen to know that the roots of this particular issue goes back quite some time - and perhaps even farther than I am aware. It would take me hours and Solomonic wisdom to go through the details and impartially weigh who started it, and I'm not doing that every time a kerfuffle comes up. I don't have the luxury of that kind of time, and even if I did I'd inevitably still wind up with one party perturbed because he didn't get the last word. It just needs to stop, and that means everyone needs to let it drop, completely, period. This isn't entirely fair, but it's the only practical approach, sorry.

prometheus
01-09-2017, 02:13 PM
I understand your point, and I know you ordinarily make a good effort not to overstep ... but this has to stop at some point and there's always going to be someone who doesn't get the last word. This time, it was you, sorry. Apart from that, I won't comment on moderation activity involving another party, sorry again.


It's pretty simple, really. If something is offensive, click the triangle icon below that post to report it. We'll take it from there. The knee-jerk reaction, of course, is to defend oneself, but that invariably get's us into another round. Please just report a post and let the moderators moderate.

I happen to know that the roots of this particular issue goes back quite some time - and perhaps even farther than I am aware. It would take me hours and Solomonic wisdom to go through the details and impartially weigh who started it, and I'm not doing that every time a kerfuffle comes up. I don't have the luxury of that kind of time, and even if I did I'd inevitably still wind up with one party perturbed because he didn't get the last word. It just needs to stop, and that means everyone needs to let it drop, completely, period. This isn't entirely fair, but it's the only practical approach, sorry.

he..not sure what you are talking about here in the first lines, I donīt see you have moderated any of my comments really, as I see it..my posts seem to be there.

and thanks for the advice on reporting, I should of course have noted that earlier.

Yes..it isnīt entirely fair...not sure I can agree that to leave it as " itīs the only practical approach" as the way to conduct it all, at least itīs not something that makes the forum experience a pleasant one, but itīs you in your pantīs and not me in mine...so we have to leave it at that:D ...wishes and practical situations may not play together all the times, and as long as I canīt provide you with a better suggestions..you are of course entitled to do it your way and tell me to take the highway. :)

Though I am a little stubborn in saying that it isnīt hard to see "who started personal attacks" In This Thread (seperated from other potentional attacks in other threads) that is the foreground key to this threads decency.
You just have to read the very first post of the person I had the conflict in, it is adressing me..not the otherway around.;D;D..Sigh I donīt know.

Anyway..I donīt feel comfortable being around here in the forums that much, it began sometime before as well, so I am writing my B...off right now..because I think I frankly unfortunatly will stop posting and engage here in the forums...do not feel motivated, and besides..the forum isnīt worked on and seem to be expected to be handled with facebook, which I have no plans on engaging, so it will be by by for me for quite some time I guess.

erikals
01-09-2017, 02:59 PM
yeah, quiet forum these days, that's alright though.

there is also an "ignore" function on these forums, i use it at times. and i'm sure people use it on me...   :)

it's easy to feel a bit uninspired as there aren't that many SFX discussions, but i wanna thank you Prometheus, for sharing.
and that of course goes for Brian as well.

---------

anyways, off to reading about DSLR and homemade 3D Beam Splitter DSLR rigs...  http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

prometheus
01-11-2017, 02:06 PM
I Wasnīt going to post here for quite a while since I was depraved of motivation to do so, and got distracted from the Purpose of this thread...
but hereīs a greeting to a Canadian fellow..which I appearently and strangely mistoke for American, and to some other humble folks like erikals and shrox.

I Was lurking on youtube and happen to come across my older post about tweaking some voxels, itīs just one null with hvīs no nodes or special tricks really..except for the transparency map the filters and cast the rays...

But you guys probably seen it before...from it you may get a perception on vpr speed, and also check when I change dome light angle at 1:55
And when I tweak thickness at 2:37 and near clip distance at 2:50
I was going to post this combined with the images to further explain what jwiede originally wondered about in terms of rendertimes in another thread, itīs not that difficult,no special trick really apart from the transparency mapped dome or plane, itīs just about setting the proper size and near clip distance, thickness and opacity and place the null somewhere in the middle of the scene, also just unceck volumetric shadows in the hv advanced tab.

will probably stay away from the forum for a while anyway, so donīt ask too many questions..thereīs a good chance I wonīt answer them this time, but feel free to experiment by adding a null to a scene yourself and experiment, but start to do one with a plane that cast shadows by a transparent map so that you later may be able to see the rays picked up the hv item.
Scenefile samples I will post to a few selected friends unfortunatly...but itīs not hard to try yourself, and at the same time learning a little about how to yourself, good luck.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbkvT_HgKRs&t=77s

prometheus
01-15-2017, 11:54 AM
Gimme scene. Gimme scene now.


You got mail, your private mailbox that is.. not these forum mailboxes.
Large astronaut textures from tf3dm model is making the file around 16 mb, let me know if it doesnīt come through in the mail.

Cheers
Michael

prometheus
01-15-2018, 08:16 PM
Maybe I should bump this thread again, in regards to the new volumetric lights and volumetric items in lightwave 2018,
hereīs an image just testing how the new volumetrics could handle the same approach for the godray effect seen above with the astronaut, that is old hypervoxels as a fog item, this image is the new volumetric system mixing a true volumetric cloud, with yet another volumetric primitive to serve as a fog item, just as the hypervoxel test with the astronaut, so the principles are the same..but differs in that the astronaut image just uses a transparent cloud plane, and the new image here uses the new volumetric system for the cloud.

To know..the old legacy hypervoxel system is significantly faster within Lightwave 2018, so you can probably acheive the effects with the astronaut and transparent cloud planes or domes with a much faster rendering than in 2015, but you can not mix the old and the new system.
To be aware of, using two volumetrics like this below is still very render consuming, compared to if you fake it with a cloud plane or a spherical dome.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139143&d=1515018487

erikals
01-15-2018, 08:22 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155488-Hypervoxels-VS-New-Volumetrics&p=1533488&viewfull=1#post1533488


this might be on to something.

tweaked in post, might give some ideas... >
a very rough test here, could look way better if i had more time (with correct alphas etc.)

but this is crazy, i need to hit the sack... [4.20 am]

https://i.imgur.com/t4J2uK8.png