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Revanto
01-04-2017, 06:40 PM
Hiya,

I have another weird request and I'm not sure if this is possible.

In Photoshop, you can have a layer with a layer mask and then apply a stroke layer effect so that all your solid pixels have an outline to them.

Well, I want to be able to do that in Lightwave with a textured polygon. I want to have a simple square polygon with an opacity map then use a plugin or something so that I can get a stroke effect, just like in my photoshop example above. Because I may use controls to manipulate the opacity/transparency of the polygon, I need to have the stroke/outline effect to be dynamic.

Does anyone know if there is such a plugin or something to achieve this sort of thing?

Oh, and I am using Lightwave 9.6 so I am limited in this way.

I also should note that I do not ant to do this post-process either, just in case some of you were thinking.

Appreciate any ideas or feedback.

Cheers,
Revanto :p

prometheus
01-04-2017, 07:17 PM
Hiya,

I have another weird request and I'm not sure if this is possible.

In Photoshop, you can have a layer with a layer mask and then apply a stroke layer effect so that all your solid pixels have an outline to them.

Well, I want to be able to do that in Lightwave with a textured polygon. I want to have a simple square polygon with an opacity map then use a plugin or something so that I can get a stroke effect, just like in my photoshop example above. Because I may use controls to manipulate the opacity/transparency of the polygon, I need to have the stroke/outline effect to be dynamic.

Does anyone know if there is such a plugin or something to achieve this sort of thing?

Oh, and I am using Lightwave 9.6 so I am limited in this way.

I also should note that I do not ant to do this post-process either, just in case some of you were thinking.

Appreciate any ideas or feedback.

Cheers,
Revanto :p

You hatenīt posted any sample of what you mean
But guessing, select your object ..hit p for properties, go to edges tab and check various edges buttons and see what they do.

jwiede
01-04-2017, 09:25 PM
You hatenīt posted any sample of what you mean
But guessing, select your object ..hit p for properties, go to edges tab and check various edges buttons and see what they do.

Unfortunately, I don't believe the edge-coloring/-rendering features were available yet in 9.6.

MonroePoteet
01-04-2017, 09:32 PM
Yes, posting a PhotoShop example of what you're trying to achieve would be helpful.

mTp

daforum
01-05-2017, 12:14 AM
Have a look at this tutorial by DW Burman: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fARm6bUg6IY
I'm sure this can be done using LW 9.6

Hope it helps :)

Edit
Just read your original post "no post processing..." and this technique does just that :(

Still not sure what you want without your example being posted.

creacon
01-05-2017, 06:31 AM
We used LW outline rendering in 2002-2003, must have been 7.5b or c or something.
Nodal control came (a lot) later.

creacon


Unfortunately, I don't believe the edge-coloring/-rendering features were available yet in 9.6.

prometheus
01-05-2017, 09:41 AM
Unfortunately, I don't believe the edge-coloring/-rendering features were available yet in 9.6.

sorry for my seemingly bad spelling, but probably my keyboards fault, itīs crappy and giving up on some letters, in this case "havenīt" got all wrong:D

if you got a simple rectangle ..you could perhapse use dponts shape bomber, in transparency tab ..raise transparency to 100% but add that procedural and use thick or thin frame

MonroePoteet
01-05-2017, 10:03 AM
You might try the Sketch plug-in under the Image Editor=>Processing tab. The images attached are the image I used on the Color and Transparency channels with the BLACKANDWHITE plugin and the Sketch plugin added in the Image Editor Processing tab using red as the Sketch color. Again, without an example of what you're trying to achieve, just a guess.

mTp

Image used: 135483
Result: 135484

jeric_synergy
01-05-2017, 11:00 AM
I think (hard to say w/o an example) that this would be a BREEZE in LW versions that have nodal edge effects.

prometheus
01-05-2017, 12:24 PM
You might try the Sketch plug-in under the Image Editor=>Processing tab. The images attached are the image I used on the Color and Transparency channels with the BLACKANDWHITE plugin and the Sketch plugin added in the Image Editor Processing tab using red as the Sketch color. Again, without an example of what you're trying to achieve, just a guess.

mTp

Image used: 135483
Result: 135484

I was going to suggest that..but forgot it, it is sort of post processing, but with easy without any other program, just requires a render since you can not tweak with vpr feedback, that wouldnīt matter for the requester anyway since he uses lw 9.6, the question is if the sketch image filter was there in 9.6, and if it doesnīt matter though he said "I also should note that I do not ant to do this post-process either, just in case some of you were thinking." in a way a post process..but as filter which is faster and more convinient than entering photoshop in this case.

jwiede
01-05-2017, 01:01 PM
I think (hard to say w/o an example) that this would be a BREEZE in LW versions that have nodal edge effects.

This is precisely the kind of task nodal edge effects were designed to enable, AFAICT.

MonroePoteet
01-05-2017, 04:13 PM
I was going to suggest that..but forgot it, it is sort of post processing, but with easy without any other program, just requires a render since you can not tweak with vpr feedback, that wouldnīt matter for the requester anyway since he uses lw 9.6, the question is if the sketch image filter was there in 9.6, and if it doesnīt matter though he said "I also should note that I do not ant to do this post-process either, just in case some of you were thinking." in a way a post process..but as filter which is faster and more convinient than entering photoshop in this case.

My suggestion was to put Sketch on the Image Editor (F6) Processing tab rather than on the CTRL-F8 Effect Processing tab. With Sketch on the Image Editor=>Processing tab, it affects that single Image before it's applied to the Surface, so it appears in both the Textured Shaded Solid view and VPR. I guess I wouldn't call it post-processing in this case.

BTW, I tried downloading the ZIP / scene file I uploaded previously, and it didn't save the Image Editor=>Processing tab information, so here's another try...

mTp

P.S. I confirmed the freshly uploaded ZIP file does carry the Image Editor=>Processing information

prometheus
01-05-2017, 06:41 PM
My suggestion was to put Sketch on the Image Editor (F6) Processing tab rather than on the CTRL-F8 Effect Processing tab. With Sketch on the Image Editor=>Processing tab, it affects that single Image before it's applied to the Surface, so it appears in both the Textured Shaded Solid view and VPR. I guess I wouldn't call it post-processing in this case.

BTW, I tried downloading the ZIP / scene file I uploaded previously, and it didn't save the Image Editor=>Processing tab information, so here's another try...

mTp

P.S. I confirmed the freshly uploaded ZIP file does carry the Image Editor=>Processing information

Ah...yeah, good tip there, and it works.

Revanto
01-05-2017, 06:46 PM
I think I might have the DP filter plugin but have never used it. I will have to do some tests and check whether it's what I am looking for or not.

It's about the texture transparency not the object outlines.

I will get back here after some experimenting.

Thanks to everyone who contributed so far.

Cheers,
Revanto :p

Revanto
01-06-2017, 07:36 PM
Have a look at this tutorial by DW Burman: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fARm6bUg6IY
I'm sure this can be done using LW 9.6

Hope it helps :)

Edit
Just read your original post "no post processing..." and this technique does just that :(

Still not sure what you want without your example being posted.

Actually, I DID post an example of what I meant - just not as an image:

"In Photoshop, you can have a layer with a layer mask and then apply a stroke layer effect so that all your solid pixels have an outline to them."

Anyway, I tried to do what was outlined in the tutorial with that DP filter plugin but it kept crashing for some reason. Yes, I did get the right version of the plugin, just so you know, and the test I did was very simple. Unfortunately, the technique (which is very similar to a trick that I have used in Photoshop before to get clean edges) has issues in regards to overlapping objects so, while it is a good technique, doesn't suit my needs.

To be honest, I can set something like this up in After Effects to get what I am trying to do. But the controls are clunky and getting the result I want (AND the extra things I need that I could only do in Lightwave) is a tedious process. In After Effects, you can control image sequences quite easily but in Lightwave, you would need to get a commercial plugin that does the same thing.

If I could program, I would definitely try to come up with my own tools

Cheers,
Revanto :p

Revanto
01-06-2017, 07:44 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention that since I would have multiple single square polygons layered on the Z axis to mimic layering like in Photoshop, the stroke/outline effect would have to affect each layer separately.

But something tells me that getting this effect right won't be achievable except in post processing in Lightwave.

Rev. :p

MonroePoteet
01-07-2017, 08:13 AM
Actually, I DID post an example of what I meant - just not as an image:

"In Photoshop, you can have a layer with a layer mask and then apply a stroke layer effect so that all your solid pixels have an outline to them."


...and in Lightwave you can use an Image Texture layer on the Transparency channel and the Sketch plug-in so that all your solid pixels have an outline to them. Your verbal description is quite vague for what you're actually trying to accomplish. Best of luck!

mTp

135518

Revanto
01-07-2017, 11:29 PM
Thanks for the example, mTp. It made things clearer and I finally found the sketch plugin.

However, if you try to create a layered transparency map for your polygon objects then things get a bit weird. It should be straight forward but the Sketch plugin doesn't seen to like weird layer combinations.

Try adding another transparency layer to the surface of one of your objects set to something like Alpha, Pshop Multiply, Pshop Screen or whatever and you'll see what I mean once you render.

Revanto :p

MonroePoteet
01-08-2017, 12:40 PM
Thanks for the example, mTp. It made things clearer and I finally found the sketch plugin.

However, if you try to create a layered transparency map for your polygon objects then things get a bit weird. It should be straight forward but the Sketch plugin doesn't seen to like weird layer combinations.

Try adding another transparency layer to the surface of one of your objects set to something like Alpha, Pshop Multiply, Pshop Screen or whatever and you'll see what I mean once you render.

Revanto :p

Since I still don't have any clear idea of what you're actually trying to accomplish, making random experiments to achieve a "secret objective" doesn't seem very productive to me. If you can find images on the Internet showing something similar to what you're after and post pointers, that would be very helpful. If you can generate examples in PhotoShop and post them here (save as JPG, use the Go Advanced button and then the Manage Attachments button), that would be great.

Best of luck!

mTp

Revanto
01-08-2017, 06:53 PM
OK, this image is as simple as I can explain.

135531

I hope this clears things up. I want the stroke effects like in Step 4 but I want it to be interactive so that when I layer and/or transform one or more transparency maps on the same surface, the stroke remains interactive like in Step 6.

Thanks.

Revanto :p

MonroePoteet
01-09-2017, 09:49 AM
OK, thanks for the explanation. I don't think that Sketch isn't going to work in this situation. Applying Sketch to the Image Editor=>Processing tab doesn't recognize the multi-layer alpha / transparency channels, while adding it to the Effects (CTRL-F8)=>Processing tab won't allow per-object / per-image manipulation of the Sketch parameters. I think you're going to need a post-processing pass, or stick with PhotoShop to create your graphic elements.

mTp

Revanto
01-09-2017, 07:06 PM
Yeah, mTp, I had a feeling that it would be difficult to get done in LW. I've used LW in the past in non-traditional ways so sometimes when I want to try something new that has never been done before then I have a tendency to ask for how to do difficult or weird things.

What I want to do is not impossible in After Effects but getting things customised is time consuming and tedious.

Thanks for the feedback and help.

Cheers,
Revanto :p

MonroePoteet
01-09-2017, 11:57 PM
Sorry it didn't work out! I also tried a Clip Map, but neither the Edge rendering options (under Object Properties=>Edges) nor Sketch detects the Clip Map. It's really unfortunate you can't upgrade to a version of LW that supports the edge nodal system (as recommended by others earlier), since that give a lot of versatility. You'd have to model the objects polygonally, but that's pretty easy to do...I just load the image into the background image of Modeler, use "+" to add points around the perimeter, use Solid Drill to take out things like the "eye" of the duck and the wing. Animating it is a bit more difficult, but feasible.

Again: best of luck!

mTp

Revanto
01-10-2017, 12:58 AM
It's really unfortunate you can't upgrade to a version of LW that supports the edge nodal system (as recommended by others earlier)

I'm waiting for LW Next. I could upgrade to the current version but then I'd have to shell out more money to upgrade again. I also want to get my hands on a few 3rd Powers plugins.

I can be a bit patient, I suppose.

Rev. :p

Revanto
04-24-2018, 09:27 PM
Sorry for bringing up an old thread but since I have upgraded to LW2018 I can finally try to solve this issue.

People have suggested I use the edge nodal system to give me the result I want with getting outlines from multiple transparency layers/layering on a texture. However, I have no idea as to how to do this. Remember that I'm not trying to get polygon edges but pixel edges for my surface.

So, if anyone can please show me how to set this up, I would appreciate it it you could guide me.

Thanks in advance.
(yes, I still say this)

Cheers,
Revanto :p

jeric_synergy
04-24-2018, 11:39 PM
Wouldn't pixel edges be a post rendering effect?

Revanto
04-26-2018, 08:36 PM
Wouldn't pixel edges be a post rendering effect?

Yeah, now that you mention it, it probably would be. What's worse is that I didn't realise that in the openGL preview I probably wouldn't be able to get all the tranparencies for all the meshes to show up properly. I could only get things to show up properly after render.

Honestly, I was really hoping to make my own sort of 2d character design kit (yes, using a 3d program) in LW but there seem to be too many restrictions for what I want. I could do something similar in After Effects but there are issues there I have to overcome, too.

I would still like to know how to set up the pixel edge effect via nodes, though. So, if anyone can still show me how then that would be great.

Cheers,
Revanto :p

jeric_synergy
04-27-2018, 11:19 AM
I think this might address this question: https://aescripts.com/learn/create-an-lcd-pixel-screen-effect-in-after-effects-using-stardust---easy/

Revanto
04-27-2018, 08:03 PM
I think this might address this question: https://aescripts.com/learn/create-an-lcd-pixel-screen-effect-in-after-effects-using-stardust---easy/

Sorry, I think I may have explained things incorrectly. Thanks for the link, though.

Basically, when I said 'pixel' I didn't mean 'pixelated'. I was actually referring to a stroke effect but not in regards to polygon edges but rather edges generated based on texture transparency. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word 'pixel'.

Anyway, I appreciate your help nonetheless.

Cheers,
Revanto :p