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erikals
01-01-2017, 08:38 PM
hi there,
i'd like to hear your opinions on this one...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9ar0CuQ9LE

samurai_x
01-01-2017, 10:18 PM
Didn't watch the vid. Just guessing based on the title.
Fit selected not working for you in layout to zoom into an item?
What's lacking is subobject mode in layout to zoom into an item's lower levels.

erikals
01-01-2017, 10:58 PM
nope, fit selected is just per object mode, not at all close to Maya F, unfortunately

samurai_x
01-01-2017, 11:50 PM
nope, fit selected is just per object mode, not at all close to Maya F, unfortunately

Uhh..because layout doesn't have subobject mode. Its not aware of it as of 2017. :D

erikals
01-01-2017, 11:58 PM
it's easy to code, they could've done this 15 years ago.
polys/vertices have always been available in Layout. just not edges.
there really is no excuse.

just like lack of weightmap editing was no excuse.

Surrealist.
01-02-2017, 01:56 AM
Let me know if this video helps clarify. Is there really a way to code it if there is no way to select components in Layout?


https://youtu.be/iELL59wme68

hypersuperduper
01-02-2017, 02:21 AM
While this is definitely a clunky workaround I have found using powergons to populate the scene with smartly located nulls to use as both focus and snap points to be a reasonable replacement for component level focus like Maya's F. Of course this only works if you aren't moving parts around with morphs/nodes. You could use skelegons for the same purpose.

This all involves a bit of setup of course, but there are a number of tools in modeler (powergons etc) that make it relatively painless.

Asticles
01-02-2017, 03:00 AM
I think this should be connected to some upgrade on modeler's tools on layout, where you should be able to enter to modeling session and select and make some basic (for start) operations.

I suggest a fast way to enter in model mode (like blender's TAB key), so then you will be able to select, focus and edit geometry on layout.

Regards.

samurai_x
01-02-2017, 05:18 AM
it's easy to code, they could've done this 15 years ago.
polys/vertices have always been available in Layout. just not edges.
there really is no excuse.

just like lack of weightmap editing was no excuse.

You should talk to spherical about coders. :D
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?151880-Deep-Rising-Fx-Potential-fluid-simulator&p=1493861&viewfull=1#post1493861

Lol.


This is why 3rdpowers weight tools was an instant buy for me. If NT haven't added it in 15 years they probably don't plan to add it anytime soon.

Norka
01-02-2017, 05:50 AM
+10! Excellent idea erikals! Give us F. This would speed up Layout for sure.

creacon
01-02-2017, 08:26 AM
Easy? Yes, probably, but it still would take time and be a very crude solution since layout isn't aware of points and polys.
you can create a mesh iterator, make a copy of the data, use that data for your navigation.
But it would be a lot better to concentrate on architectural changes that make stuff like this super easy.

creacon



it's easy to code, they could've done this 15 years ago.
polys/vertices have always been available in Layout. just not edges.
there really is no excuse.

just like lack of weightmap editing was no excuse.

squarewulf
01-02-2017, 10:35 AM
hi there,
i'd like to hear your opinions on this one...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9ar0CuQ9LE

Shift+A works for me...

Sensei
01-02-2017, 11:18 AM
How can you select part of single object, if LightWave does not have polygon selection functionality in the first place.. ?
Obviously, if LW would allow selecting polygons from object/layer, focus on them would be instantly available.

As far as I can see on your video, it's just one huge object, not multiple objects.. ?

jeric_synergy
01-02-2017, 12:04 PM
Just a thought: any way to leverage Parts into this functionality? Layout knows Parts, I think.

Ernest
01-02-2017, 12:32 PM
I think you got the problem exactly backwards. :)
The proper way to model that object in LW is to create each of the pillars in a separate layer. Then, you can focus on each one in Layout without any issue.
The problem is that we cannot group layers into objects, or any other higher-complexity entity in Layout. So it's not that we can't focus on components; it's that we can -only- focus on components, we cannot focus on objects, if we modeled the Lightwave way.
The LW solution of parenting stuff to a null in order to move it as a group is useless for focusing.

creacon
01-02-2017, 12:37 PM
I would use the raycast functionality to detect the polygon that was hit and use the drawing functionality of a custom object to highlight the part. But like I said in a previous post that would require a copy of the object in memory. More hacking than programming ;-)

creacon


How can you select part of single object, if LightWave does not have polygon selection functionality in the first place.. ?
Obviously, if LW would allow selecting polygons from object/layer, focus on them would be instantly available.

As far as I can see on your video, it's just one huge object, not multiple objects.. ?

Surrealist.
01-02-2017, 01:09 PM
Here is another video showing another practical situation where there is a need for something like this.


https://youtu.be/JUw6VpJl1zA

3D Kiwi
01-02-2017, 02:23 PM
Unification, It's our only hope...

Sensei
01-02-2017, 02:44 PM
I would use the raycast functionality to detect the polygon that was hit and use the drawing functionality of a custom object to highlight the part. But like I said in a previous post that would require a copy of the object in memory. More hacking than programming ;-)

There is no information attached to each individual polygon "I have been selected by user".
When user is scrubbing timeline each polygon is regenerated from scratch (especially if they are result of sub-patch freezing)..

Write custom polygon handler, your genMesh() will generate list of triangles, which Layout will use,
then scrub timeline,
and genMesh() will be called again,
rendering useless the whole "select polygon" action..
As they will be completely new frozen polygons.

jasonwestmas
01-02-2017, 03:55 PM
In a case like this, as mentioned, I would definitely put each pillar in a separate layer. Then it's not much different from maya. If there was a way to select polygons in layout and then you couldn't focus then yeah. No real excuse. But it's no surprise you can only focus on pivot points. I think these solutions are coming, just will be waiting a long while still. I'll vote yes. :)

erikals
01-02-2017, 05:37 PM
Surrealist gets it pretty much right.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Xj1uRSVGE


there are hacks to it. raycast / separate layers / powergons, but it's a rather sad and cumbersome hack. especially for forest scenes. etc.

jwiede
01-02-2017, 06:06 PM
In a case like this, as mentioned, I would definitely put each pillar in a separate layer. Then it's not much different from maya.

Depending on where the pivot is located in each pillar, that's still quite different from Maya, because you can't arbitrarily select to focus on the "end cap" versus the whole pillar.

The problem with these work-arounds is they all presume you know ahead of time what you want your view focused upon, but in practice that's often NOT the case. Also, changing the actual structure of the object just to provide certain view capabilities (and inadequate ones even then) is really counter-productive, in too many cases it will force the user to choose between "efficient structure for use" and "efficient structure for view focusing".

A lot depends on how much of the new geometry engine winds up SDK-exposed in LW.Next. If little to none, then it could be years before effective arbitrary focusing could be implemented in Layout. If most to all, then could either come in LW.Next, or be implemented at or shortly after release by third-party. Obviously, if the new GE gets pulled from LW.Next, that pushes things out further.

And yeah, I find the absence is frequently annoying in Layout, mostly because I'm used to having that functionality available elsewhere. Honestly, though, having grown accustomed to C4D's (excellent) viewport navigation system, I find both MODO and LW frustrating in comparison. There are more frustrations in LW Layout than MODO due to the aforementioned issue, but personally I find C4D's cursor-adjustable viewport nav (https://www.cineversity.com/vidplaytut/new_in_r13_navigation) vastly better than either MODO or LW when it comes to ability to move around and focus in on tight detail regions in viewport, for modeling, animation, whatever.

jasonwestmas
01-02-2017, 10:26 PM
Right, I only meant it's like Maya from an object's pivot "frame " point of view. I don't usually use a component selection "frame" unless I'm modeling, or skinning weights, which we can't do in Layout anyway by default. Not that it isn't useful in layout, but it's like a feature that is only useful if other features are in place first.

Surrealist.
01-03-2017, 12:12 AM
Yeah right so an object pivot you mean the bounding box of the mesh itself, without respect to the actual world origin of the object. Someone mentioned Ray Casting. And I think that is what it would take to get what Eric is actually asking for. He is not asking for component selection in Layout. I am not a programmer but.... In the same way that ray casting can find the center of geometry in Maya and Modo for snapping, say when placing joints in fingers, with center snapping turned on. Could we not use Ray Casting to cast a ray into the scene and then use that data to center around what faces the mouse is over that intersect that ray? Isn't that a feature of Open GL? How else are we able to shade a face if we can not cast rays in the scene?

Just googling a few things:

https://capnramses.github.io//opengl/raycasting.html
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9406269/object-picking-with-ray-casting


Not really related but just mentioning the technology.

hypersuperduper
01-03-2017, 01:51 AM
Right, I only meant it's like Maya from an object's pivot "frame " point of view. I don't usually use a component selection "frame" unless I'm modeling, or skinning weights, which we can't do in Layout anyway by default. Not that it isn't useful in layout, but it's like a feature that is only useful if other features are in place first.

I never missed component focus in layout before I began using 3rd powers weight paint tool. Because with that tool you CAN select sub-objects in layout and the lack of a proper "F" function to center your selection is a pain.

creacon
01-03-2017, 02:01 AM
That's what I was talking about, the raycasting functionality was added a few versions ago.
Anyway this is a feature that would probably be best implemented when the components are easier to access in layout.
If the absence of this feature is preventing you from working in LW you'd be better off changing careers :-) or software. Because as you know the grass ...

creacon

jwiede
01-03-2017, 02:33 AM
Could we not use Ray Casting to cast a ray into the scene and then use that data to center around what faces the mouse is over that intersect that ray?

That's more or less how C4D R13-and-on viewport works when cursor-centeric, the cursor is a ray-cast down the viewport view from the mouse position, and then that's used as the pivot for rotation, and the center for zooming. By just moving the mouse around and rotating/zooming using it you can easily walk your way down into tight spaces in a way that's a lot more difficult using trackball-style rotation (or even fixed object-centric rotation) and zooming. You can still switch to object-centric or view-centric nav using menu/hotkeys, but once you get used to it, the cursor-centric approach is really, really efficient for focusing.

Every4thPixel
01-03-2017, 02:40 AM
Best solution. Just add a null and drag that around and focus on that. It even might be possible to use raycast to make it stick to geometry.

jwiede
01-03-2017, 02:47 AM
I never missed component focus in layout before I began using 3rd powers weight paint tool. Because with that tool you CAN select sub-objects in layout and the lack of a proper "F" function to center your selection is a pain.

Ayup. This goes back to what I've been saying about just adding some modeling-type tools to layout not being enough: Without all the navigation, snapping, and precision support that exists in Modeler, such tools become a LOT less useful. It's a peculiarity of LW that weight painting falls into that category, but lacking such component-level focusing, weight-painting is useful but still quite inefficient (due to the absence of Modeler's view/selection infrastructure).

Surrealist.
01-03-2017, 03:46 AM
That's what I was talking about, the raycasting functionality was added a few versions ago.
Anyway this is a feature that would probably be best implemented when the components are easier to access in layout.
If the absence of this feature is preventing you from working in LW you'd be better off changing careers :-) or software. Because as you know the grass ...

creacon

You conspirator! lol

But why can't it just be a ray casting thing? Like Zbrush for example?

Here is a vid:


https://youtu.be/TkBXQWj2Efc


That's more or less how C4D R13-and-on viewport works when cursor-centeric, the cursor is a ray-cast down the viewport view from the mouse position, and then that's used as the pivot for rotation, and the center for zooming. By just moving the mouse around and rotating/zooming using it you can easily walk your way down into tight spaces in a way that's a lot more difficult using trackball-style rotation (or even fixed object-centric rotation) and zooming. You can still switch to object-centric or view-centric nav using menu/hotkeys, but once you get used to it, the cursor-centric approach is really, really efficient for focusing.

Same with Zbrush?

jwiede
01-03-2017, 04:24 AM
Same with Zbrush?

Yes, though with minor diffs in precise interactions and feedback.

jasonwestmas
01-03-2017, 07:13 AM
Ayup. This goes back to what I've been saying about just adding some modeling-type tools to layout not being enough: Without all the navigation, snapping, and precision support that exists in Modeler, such tools become a LOT less useful. It's a peculiarity of LW that weight painting falls into that category, but lacking such component-level focusing, weight-painting is useful but still quite inefficient (due to the absence of Modeler's view/selection infrastructure).

Yep! So double yes from me in the polls.

Also I do like the Zbrush way I can hold shift and simply touch the model and the focus changes to that spot.

samurai_x
01-03-2017, 10:21 AM
There are 3 knuckleheads who don't care. Lol. I think I can guess who they are.

erikals
01-03-2017, 04:12 PM
regarding hacks, as long as they are fast, do not clutter upcoming code, then i can't say i care.

have we heard complaints about Raycast bones?
or the VPR crop function?
nope.

or, we could wait another 20 years.... Zzzz...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVHCnyIhn-I



But why can't it just be a ray casting thing? Like Zbrush for example?
https://youtu.be/TkBXQWj2Efc

Exactly!   :king:

jwiede
01-03-2017, 06:46 PM
regarding hacks, as long as they are fast, do not clutter upcoming code, then i can't say i care.

Such coded hacks/workarounds aren't part of the code design proper, so technically they are clutter. And as with clutter, when too many build up, it's time to reorganize (aka re-D&-I).

erikals
01-03-2017, 06:50 PM
yes. and personally in this case. i wouldn't mind.

Surrealist.
01-03-2017, 10:51 PM
I think it should be Possible. Especially with the new geo engine. Let's hope they get to it soon.

jwiede
01-04-2017, 12:23 AM
I think it should be Possible. Especially with the new geo engine. Let's hope they get to it soon.

Well, presumably with the new GE it shouldn't even require a workaround (presuming they SDK-expose component-level access), it'll be using as designed.

Surrealist.
01-04-2017, 01:18 AM
Yep. My assumption as well. We will see. :)

Kaptive
01-04-2017, 02:16 AM
Surely, as modelling migrates to Layout, this function will become essential.

As a side note, though it isn't accessable to everyone without the proper equipment, I do find the space mouse in Layout to be an excellent tool for absolute control of what and where I look... but it still isn't quite the same.

jwiede
01-04-2017, 04:36 AM
Surely, as modelling migrates to Layout, this function will become essential.

As a side note, though it isn't accessable to everyone without the proper equipment, I do find the space mouse in Layout to be an excellent tool for absolute control of what and where I look... but it still isn't quite the same.

You really should try the combo of C4D's (mouse) cursor-centric viewport nav mode and a Spacemouse, the combo makes viewport nav effortless. Focusing cursor with one hand, while the other controls the actual movement with analog sensitivity, is amazingly fluid and easy (esp. if you have all the common cmds and other view/edit controls on buttons near the Spacemouse, as with SpaceMouse Enterprise).

Ztreem
01-24-2017, 06:19 AM
This is a workaround, but that's the way in LW land. Using a focus object and Sticky Surface.

erikals
01-24-2017, 07:39 AM
cool, seems to work better than my RayCast test   (from the looks of it...)

Ztreem
01-24-2017, 07:44 AM
cool, seems to work better than my RayCast test   (from the looks of it...)

It works really good and very easy to setup. You could also setup a one click proxy object to easily select the target object as well, so you don't have to dig it up from a long list of objects.

erikals
01-24-2017, 07:49 AM
Great!  http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif
will have to make a testrun...

  :)

MichaelT
01-24-2017, 08:32 AM
It works really good and very easy to setup. You could also setup a one click proxy object to easily select the target object as well, so you don't have to dig it up from a long list of objects.

That is a nice way to use sticky & sticky surface.. But it does have issues. Close spaces, shapes like toroids etc.. where its movement begins being a bit finnicky. I think LWG should implement something like in C4D. Where you raycast the click on a surface point, and rotate around that (or that ever present life rescue ring in Blender for that matter, minus the ever present part :) )

Ztreem
01-24-2017, 08:48 AM
That is a nice way to use sticky & sticky surface.. But it does have issues. Close spaces, shapes like toroids etc.. where its movement begins being a bit finnicky. I think LWG should implement something like in C4D. Where you raycast the click on a surface point, and rotate around that (or that ever present life rescue ring in Blender for that matter, minus the ever present part :) )

I agree. This workaround is not instead of a proper tool dedicated for the task, its more like a way to solve the limits within the app right now. If I was a little better at coding I would have written a raycast script, should be possible.

Surrealist.
01-24-2017, 08:50 AM
How does this relate to the 3D cursor in Blender?

MichaelT
01-24-2017, 09:37 AM
How does this relate to the 3D cursor in Blender?

Press 'N', and one the right side view, click 'Lock on cursor'. Now the view will rotate around the 3d cursor.

Ztreem
01-24-2017, 10:08 AM
You can also use this technique to create objects at the focus point aligned to the mesh and also move quickly between objects in the scene.

Surrealist.
01-24-2017, 10:52 AM
Press 'N', and one the right side view, click 'Lock on cursor'. Now the view will rotate around the 3d cursor.


Oh right. I never use it. There was a key short. "Ctl Numpad .", though it does not seem to be working on my install at the moment. Maybe it was changed.

jwiede
01-24-2017, 04:10 PM
I agree. This workaround is not instead of a proper tool dedicated for the task, its more like a way to solve the limits within the app right now.
I have some doubts about its practicality...

This trick depends on the "target(s)" of focus existing as distinct objects, so that assigning sticky/sticky surface affects the desired geometry but not nearby/obscuring geometry in view. In the sample demo above, the scene is sparsely-populated, and the focus points are themselves relatively easy to access. Imagine instead a scenario where you're dealing with a complex scene, with lots of nested objects/geometry (and thus lots of view-obscuring geometry as well).

I suspect complex real-world scenes (where view focusing of the sort desired is most valuable) also tend to be scenes where their object structure and geometry are much less suitable for using sticky/sticky surface as a workaround. Feels like there's a direct complexity/scalability correlation there, I just need to work through it a bit further.


In this workaround, you're modifying the actual animation properties of the object (adding motion modifiers) to achieve the focusing. Problem is, if there's already any other motion modifiers (or other anim-type controls) present on the object for its actual purpose/role in the scene, you'll have to disable/alter them in order to use this workaround. In practical use cases that creates substantial risk of errors / unwanted interactions.

I mention this because one already-identified case where such focusing is needed is for weight-mapping, yet cases where object have associated animation increase risk as noted.


It's definitely a neat workaround to a difficult problem, no argument there, and quite usable in less-complex scenes. It just seems like the scenarios where such focusing is most valuable are also where this workaround incurs the most problems/risk.

MSherak
01-24-2017, 05:00 PM
hi there,
i'd like to hear your opinions on this one...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9ar0CuQ9LE

All other 3D applications go to a sub-object mode for a lack of better term. Layout is not aware of points and polygons within an object for selection. So 'Focus' in Layout is only at root object level.

Ztreem
01-24-2017, 06:16 PM
I have some doubts about its practicality...

This trick depends on the "target(s)" of focus existing as distinct objects, so that assigning sticky/sticky surface affects the desired geometry but not nearby/obscuring geometry in view. In the sample demo above, the scene is sparsely-populated, and the focus points are themselves relatively easy to access. Imagine instead a scenario where you're dealing with a complex scene, with lots of nested objects/geometry (and thus lots of view-obscuring geometry as well).

I suspect complex real-world scenes (where view focusing of the sort desired is most valuable) also tend to be scenes where their object structure and geometry are much less suitable for using sticky/sticky surface as a workaround. Feels like there's a direct complexity/scalability correlation there, I just need to work through it a bit further.


In this workaround, you're modifying the actual animation properties of the object (adding motion modifiers) to achieve the focusing. Problem is, if there's already any other motion modifiers (or other anim-type controls) present on the object for its actual purpose/role in the scene, you'll have to disable/alter them in order to use this workaround. In practical use cases that creates substantial risk of errors / unwanted interactions.

I mention this because one already-identified case where such focusing is needed is for weight-mapping, yet cases where object have associated animation increase risk as noted.


It's definitely a neat workaround to a difficult problem, no argument there, and quite usable in less-complex scenes. It just seems like the scenarios where such focusing is most valuable are also where this workaround incurs the most problems/risk.

I agree on complex scenes with millions of polys to evaluate it can surely become quite slow. As you mention it could also conflict with other motion modifiers... But it was a fun test and worked much better than I expected it to do. Could be useful in small scenes maybe...

MichaelT
01-24-2017, 07:22 PM
Hmm, writing a plugin in MinGW certainly was interesting. As in mixing C++ things in C files (looking at you LWG) went well (not really) I will fix it.. but I will write a plugin to deal with this mouse thing. I don't usually use MinGW, I normally use VS. But I'd rather not install it on this machine. But if it gets too messy using MinGW I will. Probably a stupid thing I missed anyway.

Photogram
01-24-2017, 07:59 PM
personally I find C4D's cursor-adjustable viewport nav (https://www.cineversity.com/vidplaytut/new_in_r13_navigation) vastly better than either MODO or LW when it comes to ability to move around and focus in on tight detail regions in viewport, for modeling, animation, whatever.

This is a better way to focus on item in my opinion too :)
It is so natural

erikals
01-24-2017, 08:06 PM
personally I find C4D's cursor-adjustable viewport nav (https://www.cineversity.com/vidplaytut/new_in_r13_navigation) vastly better than either MODO or LW when it comes to ability to move around and focus in on tight detail regions in viewport, for modeling, animation...

there was a tear in the corner of my eye watching this,... don't know why...

gerry_g
01-25-2017, 03:37 AM
C4D looks like it has better nav than when I last used it in Bodypaint 3 but the menu drilling and the icons still leave me cold, Modo is fine, prevue render nav is identical to viewport nav it's only Lightwaves insistence on locking you to the pivot point of your object and insisting on putting wold 0,0,0 at the centre of the screen that causes ninety percent of the grief, if its nav was identical to modeller things would improve instantly

Marander
01-25-2017, 05:34 AM
C4D looks like it has better nav than when I last used it in Bodypaint 3 but the menu drilling and the icons still leave me cold, Modo is fine, prevue render nav is identical to viewport nav it's only Lightwaves insistence on locking you to the pivot point of your object and insisting on putting wold 0,0,0 at the centre of the screen that causes ninety percent of the grief, if its nav was identical to modeller things would improve instantly

1) Note that the video mentioned above is from R13, we're at R18 now

2) If you don't like icons, change them or use text only like in LW, the interface is adjustable as you like, for example:

135709 135710

135711 135712

135713 135714

Edit - with 'modo-like' scheme

135716

I agree modo has a pretty interface. I don't know how easily it's adjustable. What I don't like at all are the vertical menu's and it seems a bit overloaded / cluttered to me. Only my humble opinion from playing around with the demo some time ago.

Ztreem
01-25-2017, 06:56 AM
1) Note that the video mentioned above is from R13, we're at R18 now

2) If you don't like icons, change them or use text only like in LW, the interface is adjustable as you like, for example:

135709 135710

135711 135712

135713 135714

Edit - with 'modo-like' scheme

135716

I agree modo has a pretty interface. I don't know how easily it's adjustable. What I don't like at all are the vertical menu's and it seems a bit overloaded / cluttered to me. Only my humble opinion from playing around with the demo some time ago.

Wow! I really love how nice C4D looks like without the icons, almost as nice as LW. I will try to setup my C4D like that then I maybe want to use it more often...

Marander
01-25-2017, 11:15 AM
Wow! I really love how nice C4D looks like without the icons, almost as nice as LW. I will try to setup my C4D like that then I maybe want to use it more often...

Thanks for the feedback! Just select the option Show - Text and disable the Icons in the same menu as visible in this screenshot:

135718

If you change the color scheme it might really look similar to LW. You could also setup Tabs to have similar tabs like the Create, Modify etc. ones in LW...

135719 135720

Anyway in my opinion it's best to use Shift+C and start typing the tool name or use shortcuts.

Marander
01-25-2017, 12:25 PM
...and to complete this (a bit off-topic) topic... Some more possibilities to use tools with the radial menu, context menus, shortcuts and shift-c

135721 135722 135723 135724

jwiede
01-25-2017, 01:23 PM
...and to complete this (a bit off-topic) topic... Some more possibilities to use tools with the radial menu, context menus, shortcuts and shift-c

Agreed, I definitely consider C4D's GUI/UX layout and engine as the "competitive bar" to beat among general-purpose 3D apps. MODO's is about as customizable as C4D in terms of raw capability, but the "stock" layout is nowhere near as efficiency-tuned as C4D's (IMO). You might want to check out Mechanical Color's "Zen" plugin, a third-party alternative MODO layout, it fixes/mitigates many of the stock GUI issues.

-----------


I agree on complex scenes with millions of polys to evaluate it can surely become quite slow. As you mention it could also conflict
with other motion modifiers... But it was a fun test and worked much better than I expected it to do. Could be useful in small scenes maybe...

The "complexity" I'm referring to is more about topological complexity (nested concavities, etc.) than sheer quantity of polys. I agree it's a neat workaround, and definitely useful for less complex scenes.

Photogram
01-29-2017, 01:05 PM
C4D is interesting except i will never model in any software with a locator in the middle of the object.. This is why there is only two available options for me Modeler and Modo...

And there is no node for the surface editor in C4D... And i think i will never be confortable with the shader tree in modo...

The only thing i need for modeler is the camera view working with the front projection from camera texture working inside Lightwave Modeler and i will be ok..

Marander
01-29-2017, 02:06 PM
C4D is interesting except i will never model in any software with a locator in the middle of the object.. This is why there is only two available options for me Modeler and Modo...

And there is no node for the surface editor in C4D...

The locator (Navigation Cross) is only visible when navigating around in the scene (not constantly) but it can be disabled anyway, C4D is very flexible with the viewport filters.

135785

There is a free plugin to have material nodes but I haven't tried it (I'm quite comfortable with the layered material settings). Cycles4D however has very good nodal surfacing.

135786

Photogram
01-30-2017, 02:49 PM
Humm interesting Nodal in C4D...

About the locator hidden in C4D it is possible to navigate arround the model like in the Lightwave Modeler?

Marander
01-30-2017, 04:27 PM
Humm interesting Nodal in C4D...

About the locator hidden in C4D it is possible to navigate arround the model like in the Lightwave Modeler?

In Cursor Mode if you click on the object it will use it as center. If you click on any other space it will rotate around the center or zoom into the selected area.

In Object Mode it will rotate around the object.

There are additional possibilities with modifier keys.

Keys 1 | 2 | 3 are used for Move | Zoom | Rotate or the Maya style navigation with ALT+ Mouse buttons, the viewport icons or custom configurations. F1-F5 keys switch views (F1=Perspective, F5=quad view, etc). E | R | T for component translation (Move | Rotate | Scale). All those keys right next to each other. CTRL+Drag generally to copy components, SHIFT to quantisize (for example rotation by default in 10% steps, also for the navigation).

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Nodal material system for the built-in render engines will come for quite sure in C4D in my opinion since it's requested by users since a while. I assume it's already in development and it will be available along with the layered surfacing (pure speculation). Cycles4D shows that it's easily possible.

Here some more screenshots:

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jwiede
01-30-2017, 07:57 PM
Nodal material system for the built-in render engines will come for quite sure in C4D in my opinion since it's requested by users since a while. I assume it's already in development and it will be available along with the layered surfacing (pure speculation).

IIRC, AMD ProRender uses a nodal surfacing model. Presumably the first release of ProRender integration is likely to when nodal surfacing becomes available for C4D in general.

Octane's had nodal surfacing in C4D for quite a while, and I believe Cebas' Final Render (stage-2) was first C4D external render engine to offer nodal surfacing (released circa 2005, AFAICT Cebas no longer sells/maintains C4D Final Render).