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View Full Version : A polite feature request -> question to Lino (search box option for selecting)



Curly_01
12-17-2016, 02:02 PM
Hi Lino,

One of the things that bothers me of the current version of Lightwave is the fact that you have to go long list for selecting the right bone or object when parenting. A search box option where you could type in the name of the bone your parenting would or the object your selecting would be usefull. Shouldn't be to hard to implement, but would a lot of users happy. Somes sort of node based view for working with large scenes with lots of objects would also be nice. Look at Houdini for inspiration.

The search option for parenting would make lots of users happy.

Ryan Roye
12-17-2016, 02:09 PM
One of the things that bothers me of the current version of Lightwave is the fact that you have to go long list for selecting the right bone or object when parenting.

I suggest using assign tools (now native) to parent things and set up constraints.

Assign tools is found by default in the setup tab, under the assignments category. Essentially, you select one item, hit "Store Selected", then select whatever other items in the scene and use any assign function desired.

Aside from that, yes I do agree searchable lists are needed.

spherical
12-17-2016, 04:08 PM
Shouldn't be to hard to implement,

Always looks that way from a distance. Did you add this to the Feature Requests forum where it's more likely to be seen by Devs? Also, an actual Feature Request sent from your LightWave account through the Bug Reporting System would be best.

jeric_synergy
12-17-2016, 07:32 PM
The search option for parenting would make lots of users happy.
That would be good, but not optimum. Multiple methods would be best, to meet varied needs. For instance, if a user is lame about naming bones, there's a lot of similarly named items to go thru.

One method I'm starting to see in more than just After Effects is the "pickwhip" style, where you can drag a connector to another panel where you have the desired object "cued up". Unity and C4D both have examples of this, and of course After Effects.

Were pickwhips implemented in LW, you could use the existing FIND capabilities of the Scene Editor to narrow things down, and then pickwhip (it's a verb AND a noun!) the appropriate item and/or channel.

I asked for pickwhips half a decade ago.

djwaterman
12-17-2016, 08:15 PM
Economizing LW's list searching/scrolling UI would be one of those workflow improvements that would be really appreciated, not a sexy feature but in use it could be a star. For instance, currently if you're search through an image list, you have to scroll with the tiny down arrow at the bottom of the list, and it scrolls slowly at it's own speed, meaning if you have a lot of images you just sit there waiting. A side bar scroll would allow us to move up and down that list at our own speed, and I shouldn't have to scroll all the way up to the top of the list just to load a new image, a Load button should be ever present so that I could do it instantly, even this issue would be somewhat alleviated if I could quickly scroll back up the top of the list to the load image prompt. Then the list could also allow you to create folders to put images into, like the project window in After Effects.

spherical
12-17-2016, 08:37 PM
+1

It has always puzzled me that the panels in LightWave use the OS screen draw, yet the contents do not follow convention. I.E. minimize a panel and it drops to the bottom of the screen in the left corner. That it is NOT part of the LightWave UI, it then covers part OF the LightWave UI. Annoying.

jeric_synergy
12-17-2016, 09:06 PM
MY CONJECTURE: I believe the list behavior shortcomings in general are due to, and jweide can weigh in here, inadequate test sets. IOW, the developers or hard-core coders never even SEE a real, complex, >200 item scene. They are using the equivalent of "foo" and "bar" filenames, when a real filename might be "Croc37b-hero-rig25-161218.LWO".

Since the test set is inadequate, they don't even perceive the issues.

Also, the "roll-yr-own" panels have been boning them since day one.

++
More pickwhips: also, pickwhips can be used for all sorts of things: item names, channels, values, etc. Heck, nodes are just an elaborate form of pickwhipping. Pickwhipping is especially good for Expressions.

bobakabob
12-18-2016, 04:01 PM
Hi Lino,

One of the things that bothers me of the current version of Lightwave is the fact that you have to go long list for selecting the right bone or object when parenting. A search box option where you could type in the name of the bone your parenting would or the object your selecting would be usefull. Shouldn't be to hard to implement, but would a lot of users happy. Somes sort of node based view for working with large scenes with lots of objects would also be nice. Look at Houdini for inspiration.

The search option for parenting would make lots of users happy.

Totally agree... Try scrolling through the components of a simple Genoma or RHiggit rig. It can be a showstopper. The updated plugins search tool seems pretty 'intelligent' in that it will not ignore anything with similar nomenclature... It would be greatly appreciated were this to be rolled out elsewhere.

jwiede
12-18-2016, 04:52 PM
my conjecture: I believe the list behavior shortcomings in general are due to, and jweide can weigh in here, inadequate test sets. Iow, the developers or hard-core coders never even see a real, complex, >200 item scene. They are using the equivalent of "foo" and "bar" filenames, when a real filename might be "croc37b-hero-rig25-161218.lwo".

Since the test set is inadequate, they don't even perceive the issues.

Also, the "roll-yr-own" panels have been boning them since day one.

++
more pickwhips: Also, pickwhips can be used for all sorts of things: Item names, channels, values, etc. Heck, nodes are just an elaborate form of pickwhipping. Pickwhipping is especially good for expressions.

QFA

BTW, Jeric, your PM mailbox is full.

Mr Rid
12-19-2016, 03:52 AM
There are two search box tool options where you can type in the name of an item. Is this what you mean?

jeric_synergy
12-19-2016, 05:53 AM
There are two search box tool options where you can type in the name of an item. Is this what you mean?
I think the OP was referring to cases where one must use a dropdown. Since you can parent in the SE, maybe it's not the perfect example? Or are you still hosed because filtering would hid the child item?

MichaelT
12-19-2016, 07:31 AM
A better option would be in the UI itself, when selecting an object (or bone) you could right then and there get the option to drag a link to a parent. I think that would make things far more intuitive.

Snosrap
12-19-2016, 07:34 AM
Economizing LW's list searching/scrolling UI would be one of those workflow improvements that would be really appreciated, not a sexy feature but in use it could be a star. For instance, currently if you're search through an image list, you have to scroll with the tiny down arrow at the bottom of the list, and it scrolls slowly at it's own speed, meaning if you have a lot of images you just sit there waiting. A side bar scroll would allow us to move up and down that list at our own speed, and I shouldn't have to scroll all the way up to the top of the list just to load a new image, a Load button should be ever present so that I could do it instantly, even this issue would be somewhat alleviated if I could quickly scroll back up the top of the list to the load image prompt. Then the list could also allow you to create folders to put images into, like the project window in After Effects.
Yes - I agree. But while we're at it, why not an option for thumbnails - they are after all images. :)

RebelHill
12-19-2016, 08:50 AM
Picking things directly in view or scene editor is, I think, even quicker and easier than having a search on the panels themselves...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMgVjgreplA

jeric_synergy
12-19-2016, 12:48 PM
RH's video points up, glancingly, one small point where LW went wrong early on: treating Cameras, Lights, Objects, (and Bones?) as ....ummm.... DIS-equal entities: instead of a global "ITEM", certain operations are not possible or at least easy when trying to mix item types. In particular, it is not possible to select, say, Lights AND Cameras simultaneously.

This always seemed like "a rookie error" to me.

rustythe1
12-19-2016, 04:06 PM
parent all lights and cameras to nulls, you can select everything as an object then

jeric_synergy
12-19-2016, 04:08 PM
Not looking for suggestions: pointing out wrong paths taken.

lino.grandi
12-23-2016, 02:55 AM
RH's video points up, glancingly, one small point where LW went wrong early on: treating Cameras, Lights, Objects, (and Bones?) as ....ummm.... DIS-equal entities: instead of a global "ITEM", certain operations are not possible or at least easy when trying to mix item types. In particular, it is not possible to select, say, Lights AND Cameras simultaneously.

This always seemed like "a rookie error" to me.

You can select different item types at once and parent them to another item using the New Scene Editor.

We don't like the current way LightWave deals with items anyway. Everything should be a generic Item, with different attributes so it can be identified as a Camera, Light, Mesh, Null, Bone.

Different Item types living in their own worlds are part of the current LightWave workflow. There are some advantages in it, I have to say, like the way we can quickly select which kind of Items we want to deal with.

You're working with objects and you want to adjust the camera transforms or its attributes? You press Shift+C, press P and you're there. Once done, back to object editing (Shift+O). I like it.

The fact we have different item types with no common root, I don't.

MichaelT
12-23-2016, 03:24 AM
True, but those key combos would still work, even if they are identified as a generic object.. via the identifier. But I read that you're on top of that. But the UI in general could be a bit more intuitive than it is now, but since I haven't been in this forum for that long.. I wont repeat things you probably heard ad nauseum already :)

VermilionCat
12-23-2016, 03:50 AM
Mmm... well, hotkey Shift+C for selecting, cycling Camera, that's enough. They don't have to be separate entities, imo..

Kaptive
12-23-2016, 05:25 AM
We don't like the current way LightWave deals with items anyway. Everything should be a generic Item, with different attributes so it can be identified as a Camera, Light, Mesh, Null, Bone.

Different Item types living in their own worlds are part of the current LightWave workflow.

Nuggets of info slipping out :p :D ;)

jeric_synergy
12-23-2016, 09:33 AM
Lino, it was a historical observation more than anything else. I assumed you guys had finally addressed it in the upcoming revolution.

This is the perfect time, of course, to rectify all the long-standing issues of the past.

bobakabob
12-23-2016, 05:29 PM
Good to see Lino's perspective on what should be a simple procedure with perhaps a hint on what's coming.

In Maya click on Child then Parent and press p - job done. There is a plugin on the LW site by Kevin Philips that emulates this

https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/select-and-parent/

gamedesign1
12-23-2016, 06:58 PM
Not to criticise too much as I have never coded a great tool like Lightwave, but I find it very strange that all items were not coded to extend a generic item base class. Since they share so many common parameters. Just seems very odd and messy to me. It's great that is being tidied up though :)

djwaterman
12-24-2016, 12:59 AM
No. No hints in Lino's post. Just some info on keyboard shortcuts and parenting in the scene editor.

lino.grandi
12-24-2016, 10:58 AM
No. No hints in Lino's post. Just some info on keyboard shortcuts and parenting in the scene editor.

Exactly. Next version will not change the way system deals with items.

jeric_synergy
12-24-2016, 11:09 AM
Trashed a very long post in favor of this: in general, I'd like "pickwhipping" to become a well integrated part of the Layout UI.


.... I have thoughts about the mechanics of this.... ;)

jwiede
12-24-2016, 02:19 PM
Exactly. Next version will not change the way system deals with items.

Lino, is there any improvement w.r.t. LW bulk-editing, either specifically w.r.t. modifier stack, or generally? Or does that also fall under "the way system deals with items"?

MichaelT
12-24-2016, 02:38 PM
Ok.. so mostly getting the code in place for the future then?

jwiede
12-24-2016, 03:35 PM
Trashed a very long post in favor of this: in general, I'd like "pickwhipping" to become a well integrated part of the Layout UI.

Proper pickwhips likely require some significant GUI engine changes. Widget-level drag-n-drop isn't currently well-supported, nor is there adequate viewport entity drag-and-drop support -- pick-then-select is really just a "reverse drop-to-select" where the pickwhip initiates and the scene editor or viewport item "receives" the drop.

Enabling ubiquitous drag-and-drop target support for GUI widgets and viewport entities is minimum needed to make pickwhips efficient/practical. On the plus side, that'd also enable some other long-standing drag-and-drop-related UX requests (f.e. enabling dropping surfaces on viewport items to surface them, as well as better drag-and-drop parenting support).

Ubiquitous drag-and-drop support in LW has been only slightly less requested than ubiquitous undo support, in terms of most frequent UX requests in forums over the years. It is one of those "basic GUI foundation" services which enables all sorts of other useful things, like pickwhips.