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jeric_synergy
11-28-2016, 12:19 AM
Just bought some Adam Gibson training materials, please give me a warning:

How many EFFING times am I going to hear "uhhhhhhh" in these videos? :devil:

50one
11-28-2016, 01:50 AM
Just bought some Adam Gibson training materials, please give me a warning:

How many EFFING times am I going to hear "uhhhhhhh" in these videos? :devil:

You should as for refund. This is unacceptable.

pinkmouse
11-28-2016, 02:53 AM
I bought one of his UV mapping vids, in which he confessed he'd never actually tried the procedure he was demonstrating. Never again...

hrgiger
11-28-2016, 03:02 AM
Pretty sure there is free stuff on youtube of his you can check out before you buy.

erikals
11-28-2016, 10:44 AM
there a certainly times they could be better, but, let's not make this a witch hunt.

it might be better to send Adam an email and let him know your thoughts.


i do notice sometimes jeric that you don't use your breaks, are you aware of this?
be humble.

Markc
11-28-2016, 12:07 PM
I have a lot of Adams videos (a lot I have got in $7 or $9 sales.....which is peanuts really).
Personally I have learnt a lot about 3D Coat from his training, there are times when actions are undone or redone, but hey you get the result.

Greenlaw
11-28-2016, 02:17 PM
I agree the videos of his that I've watched could have used a bit of editing but, in the end, I found them helpful.

For what they cost, I guess I can be pretty tolerant about the presentation. :)

Jaqen
11-28-2016, 03:49 PM
brakes?

tyrot
11-28-2016, 05:09 PM
sometimes i was thinking he should pay "ME" for watching those tutorials... for some of them at least ..

jeric_synergy
11-28-2016, 05:13 PM
After viewing RH and RR's videos, perhaps I'm spoiled. But it's very unprofessional, even if they are cheap: running your yap while on microphone is just freekin' lazy. Say NOTHING, not 'uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhh'. Geezus.

Perhaps I'll be pleased/satisfied when I'm finished w/the course, but the introduction is ROUGH. :twak: :censored: :devil:

+++
TYROT: LOL, I know, right? :thumbsup:
+++


Personally I have learnt a lot about 3D Coat from his training, there are times when actions are undone or redone, but hey you get the result.
Actually, I find when the presenter makes a mistake and has to backtrack, if s/he does it smoothly, are often some of the more valuable parts of a tutorial video: since I am almost certain to screw up, seeing how to recover is quite valuable.

But the verbal tick of saying g.d. "uhhh" every five seconds is not about content, it's about presentation. It's like hearing someone say "y'know" in every sentence.

erikals
11-28-2016, 06:34 PM
in my last videos,
PhotoShop - Manual Denoise #1
PhotoShop - Manual Denoise #2
i had tons of "ah-uh's" so many i considered not posting them.

if you ever made a video though you'll soon find it that it often takes 50 minutes to make a perfect 10 minute recording.
so some "ah-uh's" are due to be left in.

in my last videos though there were so many i actually got annoyed watching them, my own videos.
oh well...

but all-in-all, we should be happy that people dare to share. free or not.
and maybe Adam will make some more edit's in his upcoming videos.

and yes, RH / RR / WV videos are damn near perfect, i'm glad they put the bar that high, but it's by no means a must.

jeric_synergy
11-28-2016, 07:21 PM
FIRM OPINION EXPRESSED: SKIP IF YOU WISH.

.
.
.
.
.
I used to be an on-air radio guy: I disciplined myself to not say "ah" and "ummm" and "uhhhhhh". Because it is weak, sounds like crap, and is annoying as hell.

This is why Mark Warner's videos are so pleasant: no audio. (And great content.)

Free is one thing: paid product is another.

spherical
11-28-2016, 11:17 PM
if you ever made a video though you'll soon find it that it often takes 50 minutes to make a perfect 10 minute recording.

I shot and edited a video of a glass blower making his signature sculptures. I shot two days from different positions: above with a tripod and down on the blowing floor hand-held; making my own second unit, then a few days later played the raw footage as he narrated to it. He ummm'ed and ahhhh'ed through the voice overs to the point of absurdity. I was appalled as I was recording; thinking that I'm never going to be able to "silk purse" this and produce a worthy product. To my own credit, I edited the audio so well that his wife commented that he sounded so smart and professional! I even found bites elsewhere in the recordings and sliced them in, so that what he said in a particular instance would make sense; sometimes actually changing the sentence structure that he did utter in order to make it more clear to the listener.

The mark of a good editor is that no one notices that editing has taken place. It was a LOT of work and no one knows but my partner. Worth every second of work when I listen to it.


in my last videos though there were so many i actually got annoyed watching them, my own videos.

It is good to be more critical of one's self than what we think others may accept. I've stopped watching various people's productions, due to the unprofessionalism exhibited. Just won't go there. It feels like a lack of respect for the viewer when asset preparation prior, decorum during and editing after (if necessary) is completely out the window. IOW, the presenter's time is valuable, so there are none of the above, but my time is not.


but all-in-all, we should be happy that people dare to share. free or not.

Very true. But, free or not, some amount of care would be good to be evident. To some, it comes natural and there may actually be entire videos by them that really do not need editing. I've done a few training videos in other fields and there has never been an instance where I just went with that which was streamed from my consciousness.


and yes, RH / RR / WV videos are damn near perfect, i'm glad they put the bar that high, but it's by no means a must.

Yes it is. As I have coined: "Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess."

In public speaking, the general person thinks that having nothing to say is awkward. A protracted silence is thought to be an indication of incompetence, so they try to fill the dead air. That makes them come off as not qualified. If one IS qualified, they are comfortable with taking a moment to collect their thoughts and compose a concise, clear sentence in order to get their point across succinctly.

I used to say y'know a lot. My racing mentor, Mark Donohue, always hated that in anyone's speech. Every time he heard me say that, he would interrupt with: No, I don't know." The interruptions were immediately as annoying to me as my saying "y'know" was to anyone to which I was speaking. The point got across and I became comfortable with periods of silence in my speech. Periods of silence actually lend an air of confidence and intelligence, but the general person doesn't see it that way initially.

tyrot
11-29-2016, 12:35 AM
erikals i watched almost all of your tutorials. I appreciate what you are doing. IMO you are simply testing and trying workflows in real time and plus all your vids are free.
But when it comes to a paid training things are different.


Also i had HUGE issues with Ryan's first IKBooster series.. I think it was totally off - what he shows what he talks about .. oh man. I wanna forget those first two videos. After those videos he got insanely better. Trust me after first two videos i went ahead and got me MotionBuilder .. and start a project from zero .

Video training needs so much work . You should take out your ego - your editing skills .. or your cool voice or your ummms .. etc..

That is why a guy like Andrew Kramer can be an instant star .. or 3D Buzz or Deke...

And do not get me start on 3D coat's official trainer .. Until Alienminefield . (youtube name) comes along i was in total darkness in 3DCoat.

ONE guy ONE tutorial can sell you a software .. my more than 2 cents.. :)

jeric_synergy
11-29-2016, 01:53 AM
I've stopped watching various people's productions, due to the unprofessionalism exhibited.
Same here. Life's too short.

I may be missing out on some tasty free info, but I value my sanity. I don't want to watch a mumbling, hemming and hawing period of someone querulously EXPLORING.

spherical
11-29-2016, 02:09 AM
IMO, not having even the location of required assets needed to perform the demonstration, instead having to stumble around to find the one file that IS necessary, is inexcusable. Please, just to the MINIMUM before staring to record.

Spinland
11-29-2016, 04:56 AM
Just a probably-useless interjection here, but I never watch training videos as presented. I load up a training series in my NLE of choice (mine is Premiere Pro) and view them there. I can group them, cut out bits and move them about, set bookmarks, skip about, play cleanly at any speed I want, and so on.

Might help you get through some of the more annoying offerings out there.

unstable
11-29-2016, 07:00 AM
I think that's a great idea Spinland. I never thought of that. Thanks for that.

My two cents based on training videos is this.

1. Free - they can be as bad as they want to make them. I don't like them to be that way, but you get what you pay for. As for the ones that are really good, I am very thankful to all that produce them. Some of you are in this thread and I say again, thank you very much for exerting your time and effort.

2. Paid for - totally different. If they frustrate me and don't provide a good learning experience, its a waste of money. It's even more frustrating when they advertise 40 hours of training and you find out 8 hours or more is wasted time. If you can't provide a quality product, then you shouldn't charge for it, but lord knows there are plenty of companies out there that make millions distributing crappy products. We have only two options as I see it 1) Let people know that you're dissatisfied with a product and why, which is what the OP did. 2) Don't buy any more products from the same individual / company. This should force the products to get better or stop being profitable to produce.

jeric_synergy
11-29-2016, 09:28 AM
1. Free - they can be as bad as they want to make them. I don't like them to be that way, but you get what you pay for. As for the ones that are really good, I am very thankful to all that produce them. Some of you are in this thread and I say again, thank you very much for exerting your time and effort.
Indeed: while I find some high-profile freebies annoying to the point of disgust, I hesitate to even send them suggestions on presentation, like "quit mumbling!", "please quit saying 'ummm' and 'uhhhh' so much", or "locate your files BEFORE recording FFS", because, FREE. (Swapped in 'hesitate' because maybe a few times .....:rock:)

But paid? :devil: --As you say. I'd be satisfied if they simply suppressed the audio on all the g.d. "ummmmms"-- that's the easiest way, even if a little lame.

But better is: EXERT a little self-control and expunge pointless interjections from your speech habits.

Spinland's suggestion WOULD have the virtue of making me conversant again in Premiere....

prometheus
11-30-2016, 12:07 PM
Yeah..uhh, ehm or wait bla bla, Is something I would go crazy about too, but instead of complaining about it after...I would ensure to take some time before purchasing and checking who it is that is tuting..If possible and listen to the voice.

Ryan Roye, and william vaughan is among those I just cant see any issue at all with how they conduct their narration, Rebel hill seems to speak in a good continues flow as well, bryphi had excellent knowledge displayed with all the node stuff..but I found the way he talks a bit interruptive for my taste of following a tute..but thatīs me, then again he never charged anything for it..so you canīt complain and ask for a refund exactly..just that I find his stuff long and a bit not straight to the point.

Personally I have gotten the perception of the vids from Adam Gibson to be of some sort of medium quality in terms of end results in models, and animation...though if you look at what he is covering and all tips and tricks within, It may indeed have some goodies in there, but I think the presentation of it and I think I may also have reacted on uhhs and uhhms in some introduction free ones, which simply hasnīt attracted me.

I personally would take the time to check a script or carefully plan and repeat what I want to record if I would even go serious to do Even just free stuff, as it is now I just make simple fast tips or showcase which by no means can really be considered tutes..and I leave it soundless, but not because I would go uhh, just because I havenīt gotten around to get a mic...which may be a bad excuse :)

Erikals is forgotten if he does any uhhs and ahhs, considering his mostly is doing some fixes tips and tricks and suggestions, it would take too long time go make scripts and plan it and repeat for that, and especially at the pace his covering a lot of small stuff.

Yup..Adam should perhaps take a look at how he presents his stuff, in order to make it look a little bit more pro.

That said...some unknown people may Ocassionally have a hard time following my explanations or my thoughts :) I am working on it though.

tyrot
11-30-2016, 12:35 PM
yes you write too much .. you have nothing else to do i guess... (too much snow??)

so what you mean ... can you explain in one clear sentence ? and we move on from there ..

prometheus
11-30-2016, 12:40 PM
yes you write too much .. you have nothing else to do i guess... (too much snow??)

so what you mean ... can you explain in one clear sentence ? and we move on from there ..

No I canīt, you have to figure that out for yourself..I got to warm my feets now because of the snow, and thatīs all I have to say about that.

erikals
11-30-2016, 03:54 PM
it was pretty clear to me.

Prometheus writes fast, hence the volume. :)

tyrot
11-30-2016, 11:23 PM
you nordic supporters !:)

OlaHaldor
11-30-2016, 11:56 PM
I don't mean to be rude or anything, but his website is ancient looking, and I pointed that out in a previous thread. Even the page title in the browser says "New Page 1" or "Untitled 1" and such. That's just a big "not getting my money" to me.

I get it not everyone do website design. Solution: use a content management system like Wordpress or similar, and buy a good looking theme. Text with huge bevels, drop shadows and glaring colors on cover images are also a big "nope!" in my book. Personal taste and all that.. Sure..

I got a couple of these tutorials back when I was fresh with LightWave. Let's just say I haven't purchased any more since.


I remember Larry making a great tutorial on LWCAD. Now that's a great way to make a tutorial.



Check boxes when I'm looking for something new: Does it look good on the preview images? IF there is a preview video, do I like what I see and what I hear? What is the end result of the tutorial like? Does the tutorial cover so much it's OK to pay the price? Will it require additional purchases at a later stage (like: is it a series?)

jwiede
12-01-2016, 05:02 AM
I remember Larry making a great tutorial on LWCAD. Now that's a great way to make a tutorial.

Yeah, Larry's tutorials were always (and are) top notch quality! His live webinars were even better than his pre-recorded tutorials, IMO. He was a great teacher, in general.

Spinland
12-01-2016, 05:21 AM
Yeah, Larry's tutorials were always (and are) top notch quality! His live webinars were even better than his pre-recorded tutorials, IMO. He was a great teacher, in general.

QFA. Sigh.

hrgiger
12-01-2016, 08:10 AM
Well Larry was quite gifted in the art of the uhs and ahs as well.

Spinland
12-01-2016, 08:15 AM
Well Larry was quite gifted in the art of the uhs and ahs as well.

Personally I have no problem with vocalized pauses. What irks me is hemming and hawing and taking forever to get to the point. Some folks produce very tight videos, and we all know who they are, and I love that style. There's no such thing as "too fast" for me; that's why we have pause buttons and track sliders. I already mentioned I use an NLE to view training, and one thing I do off the bat is hack out anything that doesn't contribute to the shortest path to a nugget of information. Next time I watch it, that chaff is gone.

erikals
12-01-2016, 08:19 AM
agree, Larry had quite a few uh-ahs, though in my opinion to a bearable degree.

50one
12-01-2016, 08:45 AM
I like to pre-order my training and still wait for year past the deadline. ;D

jeric_synergy
12-01-2016, 09:31 AM
I like to pre-order my training and still wait for year past the deadline. ;D
Ha! :D


I don't mean to be rude or anything, but his website is ancient looking, and I pointed that out in a previous thread.
True, but I bought thru Liberty3d.

Spinland
12-01-2016, 09:39 AM
True, but I bought thru Liberty3d.

Indeed. I drop way more money on Kat's store than I probably should but it's a sickness. On topic with the OP I have many of Adam's tutorials, as well as others, and all of them are much, much shorter now than when I first got 'em. 'Nuff said. ;D

jeric_synergy
12-01-2016, 10:26 AM
..... but it's a sickness.
I had to mail my credit cards to Greenland with return postage to avoid buying 3rdPowers plugins this go around. The struggle is real.

#weepinginastraitjacket


(I may well follow your suggestion: I need to get up to speed on Premiere anyhow.)

Spinland
12-01-2016, 10:35 AM
I need to get up to speed on Premiere anyhow.)

Yup. As a one-Spinny shop I do all the production and editing work so I spend lots of (un-fun) time in my NLE following my (fun) time with LW.

prometheus
12-01-2016, 11:01 AM
you nordic supporters !:)

yup, we nordics go way back in time to 1390 when the first Norway-Swedish Alliance started, not exactly as one country, but a union with various king ruling per years..I think, then during around 1380 the kalmarUnion was in place and it was sort of a union of the three kingdom of sweden, denmark and norway, later it Norway became more of ruled by the danes for a long long time, not until 1814 a new union was made with sweden and norway only ,and at 1905 sweden recognized norways wish of independence.

I still havenīt been in norway though itīs maybe 36 miles only to oslo from my place, I must go and see the wigeland park, since I fancy sculptures.
Better to be brothers than bastards...so when sweden fails in sport, we cheer for norway..unless itīs a direct country battle that is:D

bazsa73
12-01-2016, 11:14 AM
I will make a tutorial using my Yoda grammar and terrible accent. I will show you what is real torture.

prometheus
12-01-2016, 11:20 AM
I will make a tutorial using my Yoda grammar and terrible accent. I will show you what is real torture.

record with a webcam with picture in picture you could...but if good it would be? that is yet to be unfold....torture from watching your face we will see.

jeric_synergy
12-01-2016, 11:45 AM
I will make a tutorial using my Yoda grammar and terrible accent. I will show you what is real torture.
Oh great: now I'm getting death threats. ;)


(In my head, a couple of minutes of that is pretty entertaining....)
+++++++++

Watching more, using VLC: so far it's much better at 1.40X (thank non-existent deities for VLC!!!). That's a bad sign for content-density-- try that with RH and you'll be in the weeds pretty quick.

Booting Premiere as I type, Spinland. ;)

ActionBob
12-01-2016, 01:07 PM
I have bought several vids from Gibson. Fool me thrice, shame on me.... I will not be buying any more. They are, in my opinion, terrible - even if they were free.

For a paid product, I believe the instructor should have decent and even deep understanding of the software and techniques they are demonstrating. The tuts I bought felt like the author had just gone through some tutorials and then decided to teach what they had just learned. Things like blaming the software for problems that pop up because the author is not paying attention to their workflow is not acceptable. "Hemming and Hawwing," stretches steps that take just a few clicks. Meanwhile, the audience is left waiting, while the author stumbles through looking for a tool.

I both praise and chastise the NLE approach to vids. I think it is a great idea for organizing vids and editing to form a database of clips covering a topic. I had not considered this.. Excellent idea.

However, when I pay for a video, unless it is a video on Non-linear-editing, I shouldn't have to open up a NLE to make watching a paid tutorial more enjoyable (informative?).

:-)

-Adrian

jeric_synergy
12-01-2016, 01:15 PM
Indeed, it should be on the AUTHOR to be firing up the NLE, and cutting out what is technically known as "the stupid bits".

I note that AG seems to get distracted by the actual CONTENTS of menus, like it's a big surprise: he even said "will load 3b files" while the dialog on the screen clearly was filtering for JPG files. --dude. C'mon. Stop where you are, pick up at paragraph 12 (as if there was a script....) and pick up again where you screwed up.

I'm hoping it gets better.

Right now I could kiss Ryan Roye for his efforts and attention to detail. Or at least buy him the beverage of his choice.

++++++

OK, at 1.4X, as mentioned, MUCH more palatable. I think that's one click on the VLC "Faster" menu, maybe with one click on the "Slower (fine)" option. ;)

papou
12-06-2016, 06:22 AM
i agree. I really don't like tutorial or video demonstration that take too much time for simple things, with lot of "hhhhhuuuuuuuuu".

omichon
12-06-2016, 07:12 AM
For having done this kind of exercise in the past, it is not an easy task but it is a trainer's duty, in respect to its audience, to provide quality content specially in case of commercial training.
I remember having spent hours recording again and again some takes. At the end, the time spent on this project wasn't paid by royalties, but I was happy to do it, and didn't expect much revenue of it anyway.
So I have the greatest respect to Ryan Roye and RebelHill for their top quality work. This is the kind of products that greatly improve LightWave image.
I should add Bryphi to the list. His recent youtube videos recorded "after the fact" are really great...and free !

Spinland
12-06-2016, 07:23 AM
(thank non-existent deities for VLC!!!).

Oh, abso-damn-lutely. I even have VLC on my iPad; it's simply THE video viewer to be using. It also has some fun under-the-covers tools for format conversion and other geeky goodness.

Oh, and His Noodly Majesty is disturbed by your lack of faith. He doesn't do Force Chokes, though, so an acerbic meatball glare will have to do. ;D

- - - Updated - - -


...I have the greatest respect to Ryan Roye and RebelHill for their top quality work.

+a gazillion. IMNSDHO they set the gold standard for instructional videos. Kat's are pretty good, too, but RR and RH top the list.

jeric_synergy
12-06-2016, 10:29 AM
Beyond presentation issues, I'm just finding AG's approach painfully misguided. He dwells on simple stuff too long, and tends to fly by the complex stuff, and sometimes you can just sense the handwaving past something he doesn't quite understand. Or so is my impression.

He also does that Bad Trainer thing of :
TALKING about what a feature does, while enticingly hovering over the button/tool, blabbing on and ON and EFFING ON, and then MAYBE using the feature once;
nervously wiggling the mouse around while the blabbering is going on;
vaccillating between options, eg resolution sizes, when it DOESN'T MAKE ANY EFFING DIFFERENCE JUST CHOOSE gahddammit;
repeatedly opening files to no gain;
not having interesting samples on screen (cubes and spheres? C'monnnnn. JFC.);
using IMO inadequate recording s/w, that is, he should be using the one that shows hotkeys pressed and highlights mouse clicks.

Again, if this were free, totally adequate. Paid? I'm not feeling great about the purchase.

+++++

I noticed Bryphii seems a bit more laid-back in his latest vid (amazing stuff, as always), like he's given up coffee or something. ;)

prometheus
12-06-2016, 10:32 AM
Oh, abso-damn-lutely. I even have VLC on my iPad; it's simply THE video viewer to be using. It also has some fun under-the-covers tools for format conversion and other geeky goodness.



well..yeah, for playing of vids continously or conversion perhaps, but for viewing tutorials the best, I would probably say quicktime, because it letīs you scroll almost seemlessly back and forth and showing it while doing it, where in vlc it will jump back and forth, not play back and forth like quicktime..thus I think it is more ideal to play back tutorials when you need to check exactly what someone is doing and repeating it with the scroll slider.
Unless there is a setting in vlc I have missed or if the newer vlc versions can handle that as good as quicktime.

It requires the tutes however to be saved out in mov format though, mp4 will work but I donīt think as smooth as mov.

Michael

short223
12-06-2016, 01:23 PM
For the company I work for, I was tasked in making video tutorial Best Practices for training of our software within the company. I made sure I meticulously edited each clip so my audio had no breathing, "ummms", clicks and pops. When I delivered it to our training team for distribution, they were a bit upset because they felt what I supplied to them was so professional and perfect sounding, they would have to do more work on their future training materials just to keep up......

spherical
12-06-2016, 08:14 PM
Poor babies...

spherical
12-06-2016, 08:51 PM
Adding to the list of things not to do:

NEVER, EVER cough or sneeze into the mic without editing it out in post. Never! Did I say: "Never?" I thought I did...
Many viewers listen to training videos using earphones. One cough at normal recording levels can blow a person's eardrums out. If the teacher doesn't have the recording volume set to a proper level, the viewer turns his/her listening volume up, just to be able to hear clearly and... BOOM.

Stop twiddling the model in the Perspective viewport while talking or trying to find what your next move is, where your assets are, what your next thought is or even just taking time to explain something in greater detail that has no on-screen example. This is the visual equivalent of feeling the need to fill dead air by saying "ummmmm", instead of just having the confidence to pause. Dead air is a Good Thing. If nothing else, it gives the viewer a bit of time for their mind to process all that you have been teaching them. Adopt the Less Is More method. It works. It may seem difficult to grasp at first, but you'll get used to it.

c.1
12-06-2016, 09:23 PM
Stop twiddling the model in the Perspective viewport while talking or trying to find what your next move is.

OMFG yessssss please!

jeric_synergy
12-06-2016, 11:44 PM
LOL. I second c.1's message and enthusiasm.

bazsa73
12-07-2016, 07:12 AM
And riggers should stop doing that quick controller wriggling/undoing so I don't have even the slightest chance to see the rig in an interesting pose.

Exclaim
12-07-2016, 09:57 AM
Wow lots of complaints. Are the tutorials worth it or not? Despite the poor public speaking, is there anything beneficial to learn? I ask because I'm interested in investing some money into tutorials for Lightwave3D but, there aren't many options.

Spinland
12-07-2016, 10:01 AM
Have you exhausted the mountain of free tutorial videos yet? There are hundreds, including a massive number published by NewTek. Not discouraging anyone from doing business with tutorial makers, not by any means, but figured I'd ask. If not, that's where I'd start and then from there hone my list of what for-cost add on training I felt I needed.

Spinland
12-07-2016, 10:07 AM
From there, in all honesty....

I would recommend everything at Liberty3D without reservation, except the videos by the author in question here. I did get his entire 3D Coat series, and that was extremely useful (after I massively edited the lot). The rest of those offerings don't cover things I don't already know and I would have to caveat all of them with the aforementioned need for editing. Some folks are irked at that need for something they paid for, and I agree, but in that one case I felt the lack of alternatives made it value added despite the needed effort. There is a lot of seriously useful content in that series, but I felt I had to excavate it from the dead weight.

Everything else there (and I have most of it) is worth it. The MACO series might be questionable now because it was meant to showcase a lot of "new" modeling features that by now might be old hat. The model the author works on is no great shakes, and he's honest about that; the point is to exercise the tool set, not to wow you with his modeling chops. He most likely saves that for the work he does for clients (and he's a well known game asset creator).

Also anything and everything by Rebel Hill. All of it, paid and all of his free YouTube stuff. You need all of it. :D

Exclaim
12-07-2016, 10:20 AM
Yes. But that does come across slightly discouraging. Completely agree with the RH stuff. Most of the free videos randomly visit things here and there without getting very deep into the tools. Dan did a decent job with the Lynda videos, but that was just good for becoming familiar with the Lightwave 3d interface, and a few basic workflow principles. As far as cost goes I feel spending around $99 to $300 per year is reasonable for tutorials. Pluralsight ask for $299 for a year of access for all sorts of stuff.

It'd be nice if LW3DG could put some standards in place, and then just give their approval to products that meet the standard.

EDIT: posted before your second post.

Spinland
12-07-2016, 10:34 AM
Heh. No Problemo. I'm an active member of both Lynda and Pluralsight but to me there's a serious lack of LW content (I get why). When I learned Turbulence FD I started with their C4D videos and just extrapolated the differences. That being said, Kat at Liberty3D has a great set of TFD videos that I fully endorse.

jwiede
12-07-2016, 10:58 AM
It'd be nice if LW3DG could put some standards in place, and then just give their approval to products that meet the standard.

Easy to say, but for a company to impose standards on its own third-party ecosystem is quite the quagmire in practice. Not saying it isn't desirable, just involves a level of effort that LW3DG seem unwilling or unable to take on to date. Evaluating and curating products, and even establishing objectively-meaningful standards to do such curation, requires a dedicated, trained staffing pool, then even more to deal with the bureaucracies around the process of tracking approved products, handling appeals, etc.

prometheus
12-07-2016, 11:41 AM
I prefer shorter tutorials, it helps the tutor to not get to confused down the road, and it helps yourself to be concentrated for a limited time only, so shorter tutorials within a few minutes, and for me preferably cut out in to several chapters instead..Even if it continuous on the same section in another chapter, it will probably load faster and be faster scrollable if you have acess to a mov format and quicktime.
I liked how digital tutors set this up, you may have your opinions on the content itself..but I think the concept structure of the tuting lessons was nice, if a tutorial goes towards 30 minutes, then It starts to crawl in my pants..somehow.

Michael

jeric_synergy
12-07-2016, 03:46 PM
Wow lots of complaints. Are the tutorials worth it or not? Despite the poor public speaking, is there anything beneficial to learn? I ask because I'm interested in investing some money into tutorials for Lightwave3D but, there aren't many options.
The tutorials in question were for 3d Coat, not Lightwave.

This is the first time I've felt dissatisfied with any Liberty3D product, and I get the impression it's not actually a Liberty3D production in any way, shape or form, L3D just 'carries' them.

I can whole-heartedly recommend Ryan Royce, Rebel Hill, and Dana (DL? DW?) Burman's offerings.

While a few nuggets about 3d Coat have been found, in general I'd say this was not a good purchase, especially now that I've found "Alien Minefield" tutorials on YouTube. OTOH, I'm not thru them all yet. It's like a cheap restaurant: the food isn't all that good, but there sure is a lot of it. (Watching at 1.40X actually helps a lot, but there's still too much redundancy.)

Spinland
12-07-2016, 04:54 PM
... and I get the impression it's not actually a Liberty3D production in any way, shape or form, L3D just 'carries' them.

Yes. I had this conversation with Kat because when I ran headlong into the abyss that is the quality of the offerings from the author in question. I wanted to talk to the source about the why. L3D is a clearinghouse for LW content and doesn't exert much (if any) creative control. The author in question is responsible for the content of his offerings and so it's on us to measure that merit against the quality of the product. Now I'm interested in the tutorials you cite and I'm a little nonplussed that I have not yet heard of them. Before I opened my wallet for material I had to massage to make useful I had convinced myself there were no better alternatives. I am always ready to be shown I'm wrong via superior evidence. :D

jeric_synergy
12-07-2016, 05:44 PM
Spinny, I think you are past the need for this particular playlist: https://www.youtube.com/user/AlienMinefield/playlists .........

But, the 3D Coat youtube channel itself is an excellent starting place towards finding more advanced tutorials, despite YT's interface redesign making things less and less convenient to browse (by severely limiting the number of things we see on one page).

Norka
12-07-2016, 06:14 PM
William Vaughan is simply the best. I love that guy. Great voice. Very professional. Has the perfect amount of subtle humor here and there. And most important, he knows his sh!t. He is the prototypical tutorial guy.

Prince Charming
12-07-2016, 07:09 PM
Yeah..uhh, ehm or wait bla bla, Is something I would go crazy about too, but instead of complaining about it after...I would ensure to take some time before purchasing and checking who it is that is tuting..If possible and listen to the voice.

Ryan Roye, and william vaughan is among those I just cant see any issue at all with how they conduct their narration, Rebel hill seems to speak in a good continues flow as well, bryphi had excellent knowledge displayed with all the node stuff..but I found the way he talks a bit interruptive for my taste of following a tute..but thatīs me, then again he never charged anything for it..so you canīt complain and ask for a refund exactly..just that I find his stuff long and a bit not straight to the point.

Personally I have gotten the perception of the vids from Adam Gibson to be of some sort of medium quality in terms of end results in models, and animation...though if you look at what he is covering and all tips and tricks within, It may indeed have some goodies in there, but I think the presentation of it and I think I may also have reacted on uhhs and uhhms in some introduction free ones, which simply hasnīt attracted me.

I personally would take the time to check a script or carefully plan and repeat what I want to record if I would even go serious to do Even just free stuff, as it is now I just make simple fast tips or showcase which by no means can really be considered tutes..and I leave it soundless, but not because I would go uhh, just because I havenīt gotten around to get a mic...which may be a bad excuse :)

Erikals is forgotten if he does any uhhs and ahhs, considering his mostly is doing some fixes tips and tricks and suggestions, it would take too long time go make scripts and plan it and repeat for that, and especially at the pace his covering a lot of small stuff.

Yup..Adam should perhaps take a look at how he presents his stuff, in order to make it look a little bit more pro.

That said...some unknown people may Ocassionally have a hard time following my explanations or my thoughts :) I am working on it though.

Can you post your alternative sources for the info that I am giving? I would think that if you had any interest in working with nodes in LW that you would find a way to get through my long winded tuts. The info cant be found anywhere else on the whole internet. I tend to think your problem is more that you are not very interested in doing complex nodal set ups. If you were, the vids may not seem so "long winded". Others seem to enjoy them very much... judging by the comments and likes on the vids. Even comments by you that are in total contradiction to what you are saying here... LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Were you full of sh!t then or now?

I just find it very funny that someone would find something to complain about free info that is 100% original, and cant be found ANYWHERE else on earth. Yet you still have some issue with it... LOL! You dont seem real interested in nodes in LW if you ask me.

As far as LW training goes... I think that Rebel Hills and mine are the best (from a quality and originality of info perspective). I dont even like RH personally, but I base my opinion of his training on the quality of the info, and also how easily (or not easily) that info can be found elsewhere.
People like proton make good "teachers" with their nice voices, pretty intros, and marketing glamour. But I watch training to learn things that I cant figure out myself by reading a manual, or exploring the interface on my own. I dont think I have actually learned something form proton in over 10 years. He sure does make my ears feel good when I listen to him though. You may be more interested in having proton whisper sweet nothings in your ear, but i actually want to learn something when I watch 3d training.

I just learned more in this tutorial that is in a language I dont even understand than I ever did from proton... Kinda makes me laugh at the people here who are complain about voices instead of content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOd5Go08IEI&t=873s

Larry was good to, but only because he had good content... he was not the best presenter by far, but I leaned a hell of a lot from him in the beginning.

Also, I do see a lot of praising of mediocre contend from the very person who started this thread. So its kinda funny that he is so harsh on this guy. I have seen him praise bad workflows form others at least 10 times over the last 3 months. Do your standards change depending on the person??? Because I see you praise things regularly on this forum that I consider crap inefficient workflows. I would be equally as pissed as you are now had I paid to see these workflows, but you seem to like them very much. So maybe your opinion in general should be taken with a grain of salt. Anyone who goes around unknowingly (or purposely) praising mediocrity is not someone I really think is worth listening to at all.:yoda:

jeric_synergy
12-07-2016, 08:42 PM
Ugh.... ::sigh:: I hoped it would get better, but just having sat thru FOUR MINUTES of essentially contentless blather hucking a DIFFERENT video in the series, I'm sorry to say it does not.

Not to break anyone's (well, Adam Gibson's) rice bowl, but, do NOT buy the 3d Coat tutorial (over 20 "volumes"????) series: they are simply not worth it. Awful.

Unfortunately, the alternatives on YT aren't structured in a way that's conducive to learning, only in that they are "all over the place"-- the content is good, excellent often, but since it's not a program, one is forced to assimilate a patchwork of information. C'est la vie, c'est la guerre.

--I keep forgetting that my city has Lynda.com available to public library users. USE YOUR PUBLIC LIBRARY-- who knows how long we'll have them now?
(I know that at least parts of So.Cal has the same deal thru their systems: Celshader has mentioned this, I believe she lives in Greater LA.)

Norka, I believe you mean "exemplar" for William. :thumbsup:

Greenlaw
12-07-2016, 10:11 PM
--I keep forgetting that my city has Lynda.com available to public library users. USE YOUR PUBLIC LIBRARY-- who knows how long we'll have them now?
(I know that at least parts of So.Cal has the same deal thru their systems: Celshader has mentioned this, I believe she lives in Greater LA.)

Yes, the Los Angeles County Public Library offers free access to Lynda. You just need a library ID number and go through the library's web portal.

IMO, even if you pay for Lynda, it's worth it. They have excellent classes for almost everything. It's only $25 a month and you can start and stop your subscription without penalty.

Before I got access through the public library, I would activate my subscription whenever I needed to cram something quickly--like learning wordpress.org for my website last year or learning Toon Boom Harmony for work the year before.

I should qualify that by saying most of the courses on Lynda are 'essentials' that get you up and running quickly, but at some point you'll probably want to switch to Pluralsight (formerly Digital Tutors) for more advanced lessons. (Unfortunately, our library doesn't also offer Pluralsight. Ah, well.) :)

Spinland
12-08-2016, 05:20 AM
Spinny, I think you are past the need for this particular playlist: https://www.youtube.com/user/AlienMinefield/playlists .........

But, the 3D Coat youtube channel itself is an excellent starting place towards finding more advanced tutorials, despite YT's interface redesign making things less and less convenient to browse (by severely limiting the number of things we see on one page).

Thanks for the pointer and tips. I shall endeavor to conquer the demons of the YT interface to put together some useful playlists. I haven't been using 3DC as much as I used to since I added zBrush to my toolbag, but it's still Da Bomb for UV mapping and (time permitting) I'm always game to absorb new learning material.

Spinland
12-08-2016, 05:25 AM
Lynda is also a perq if you're a paid member of LinkedIn, since one owns the other. I personally find LI very useful as a business development tool so the ROI is that much greater in my book.