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Aww167
11-10-2016, 11:42 AM
I loaded up LW this afternoon for the first time since yesterday to find all the plugins I'd installed (LWCAD, LW Brush and more) gone and just the basic program loaded. I would usually associate this kind of event with a change to the config files or file corruption but there's no other evidence that such a thing has occurred and the config files appear intact except for LWCAD which I would expect to see but is no longer there. Are there any log files that track changes to LW that might reveal what happened ? I'm not that conversant with the underlying architecture of LW so would appreciate pointers from anyone experienced with this kind of thing who might have some insight into this. Thanks.

Markc
11-10-2016, 11:51 AM
Do you have this option selected

135057

Aww167
11-10-2016, 12:03 PM
Do you have this option selected

135057

Thanks for the quick reply. Yes I do. That's the default setting, isn't it. I'm not sure how it functions in relation to my problem though?

Markc
11-10-2016, 12:09 PM
Is this for both Modeller and Layout that you have no plugins?

Aww167
11-10-2016, 12:12 PM
Layout appears intact. Octane, and other plugins still present. It's just modeler that's affected apparently. I guess I should be a bit more explicit - the actual plugin files are still installed in the main program - support-plugins folder. It's just the menus in modeler that have vanished for no apparent reason. Puzzling and slightly annoying both.

Aww167
11-10-2016, 06:10 PM
Lightwave is behaving very strangely - I reloaded all the plugins and menus, worked away for a few hours and when I went to save my work I got an error ' cannot save an object with no data'. I looked in the layers panel and noticed that there were several layers preceding the original layer arrangement, all labelled ' un-named' which I hadn't created. I had to close the program and reopened it to check the model - the work was saved and the layer arrangement was normal again but yet again all the plugins had vanished. This is starting to get very annoying indeed. Time to do a complete uninstall and reinstall from scratch.

vncnt
11-10-2016, 11:11 PM
Did you install (exe, plugin, config, scene content) on a network disk or an USB device that may vanish?
Did you use directories with limited access rights?
Did you update Windows10 (or any other OS)?

Aww167
11-11-2016, 06:15 AM
Did you install (exe, plugin, config, scene content) on a network disk or an USB device that may vanish?
Did you use directories with limited access rights?
Did you update Windows10 (or any other OS)?

I installed the whole program including content files on my C drive, and the only limited access I'm aware of involves saving to the LW program folder itself, which seems to be a Windows user account permission issue which is adjustable, but as I like to keep the security setting relatively high I'm happy to work with that - it hasn't been a noticeable problem in the past. The content folder installs to 'My Documents' by default, which seems to help keep things nicely organized for convenience and I've been using this setup since installing Win 10 several months back.
I did experience a similar issue a couple of weeks ago when the whole LW content folder in My Documents disappeared overnight and I couldn't even find the remnants using data recovery software - I've since done a fresh Windows install on a newly-formatted HDD to rule out any residual issues that might otherwise have caused continuing issues; in all cases there's been no new program installation that I'm aware of to provide a possible explanation for the cause. I keep Norton installed and running (which I'm aware can be pretty aggressive when falsely identifying rogue files ) but I don't see any specific cause there, and I've run alternative antivirus and disk checking software thoroughly to satisfy my concerns regarding integrity of the hardware.
Anyway, I've reinstalled LW this morning from a freshly downloaded exe file from my Newtek a/c, reloaded all the plugins and so far everything seems to be going well.
Thanks to all who've responded to this. I really appreciate the willingness to assist and time taken to post.

fishhead
11-12-2016, 05:57 AM
maybe not of help directly, but my 2cents anyway: I have no personal experience working under Win10 with LW yet. But also with Win 7 (even more so if you have a high security settings active) I found it much smoother when the newtek-folder (and all related stuff, for that matter) is residing in the Root of the C:\ Drive. Especially when you are working in an ActiveDirectory environment with all sorts of (apparingly consistantly) rights-issues...

Aww167
11-12-2016, 06:58 AM
maybe not of help directly, but my 2cents anyway: I have no personal experience working under Win10 with LW yet. But also with Win 7 (even more so if you have a high security settings active) I found it much smoother when the newtek-folder (and all related stuff, for that matter) is residing in the Root of the C:\ Drive. Especially when you are working in an ActiveDirectory environment with all sorts of (apparingly consistantly) rights-issues...

Thanks for your reply. That's interesting to know. When you say root of the C drive, I take it you mean outside of all the program folders. Yes, I think I can see an advantage to that and I will give it a try right now. I just noticed that all my Layout plugin config. have vanished today, though the modeler plugs are still nicely intact. I can't decide whether to laugh or ..well, it's really not worth getting THAT upset about but this is a very strange and increasingly annoying problem. I don't see many others complaining of similar issues (perhaps people prefer not to post every little thing, but I regard this as a big issue personally ) so it does lead me to think it's peculiar to my machine, but there's nothing particularly different to my setup that I'm aware of and only LW is affected - I don't have a lot else installed except the entire Adobe CC subscription items and a few media players. I have a Quadro K5200 which is probably the only non-standard item in my machine and I've heard graphics card issues can be tricky but I have no indication that it's currently causing problems or surely it would affect more than just LW?
I do intend to get to the bottom of this though, hopefully without too many further problems. Thanks again.

Aww167
11-12-2016, 07:32 AM
So, I created a Newtek folder on the C drive root and installed to that - I see the content folder has again defaulted to My Documents and I saw no options for changing this at the install stage, though I guess I can just cut & paste and then recreate the directory structure from within the preferences menu.
I want to add than on first running LW, I get an alert from Win 10 firewall that it doesn't contain a valid digital signature - not quite sure what that means - guess I'll have to look it up.

fishhead
11-12-2016, 07:46 AM
Yes, thats exactly what i mean: outside the program folders. Best of luck!

p.s. About config files: as I/we work over the network with shared plugins mostly, we also have all the config-files (along with most plugin files, etc.) stored on a dedicated shared network drive (X:\ in our case). The respective config files are redirected by using a shortcut on the desktop to start Layout and Modeler. Works like a charm over many, many years since v5 I believe, no matter what OS...

p.s.s. backing up the config files every now and then helps in case of a hickup, though...

Aww167
11-12-2016, 08:22 AM
Yes, thats exactly what i mean: outside the program folders. Best of luck!

p.s. About config files: as I/we work over the network with shared plugins mostly, we also have all the config-files (along with most plugin files, etc.) stored on a dedicated shared network drive (X:\ in our case). The respective config files are redirected by using a shortcut on the desktop to start Layout and Modeler. Works like a charm over many, many years since v5 I believe, no matter what OS...

p.s.s. backing up the config files every now and then helps in case of a hickup, though...


Thanks again Fishead - yes, exactly, I just had the same idea about keeping a backup of the config files once I have everything set up, then if there's a further incidence, just copy/paste the original files back again. I can't help thinking it's the config files that are at the root of this issue. The problem is that the program unexpectedly runs in a different configuration to that previously created - no plugin files have actually disappeared, just the way LW displays the setup. If the config files determine how the program runs, then it doesn't seem logical that it could run differently to how the c.files tell it to. It looks like the files can be edited by those who know their stuff well enough - not me at this point but I'm all for learning. A bit too much of a distraction right this minute but....
Thanks again.

fishhead
11-12-2016, 09:55 AM
I really suppose it is some sort of rights issue. Normally Lightwave rewrites the config files on exiting the program - so if you added a plugin during a session the plugin entry gets saved to the config files at exiting the program (Not in case of a crash, though). So it might possibly the case that the config files are stored in a location where your user account has limited permission or it might for some odd reasons be writeprotected?!?
I am not 100% sure what you mean by "the way LW displays the setup"?

sudac20
11-12-2016, 10:06 AM
same thing happens to me on occasion... its rather annoying

jeric_synergy
11-12-2016, 01:20 PM
It's such an issue that LWG should make an ancillary program that safeguards the CFG files and lets the user know when they are changed.

Aww167
11-12-2016, 02:23 PM
I really suppose it is some sort of rights issue. Normally Lightwave rewrites the config files on exiting the program - so if you added a plugin during a session the plugin entry gets saved to the config files at exiting the program (Not in case of a crash, though). So it might possibly the case that the config files are stored in a location where your user account has limited permission or it might for some odd reasons be writeprotected?!?
I am not 100% sure what you mean by "the way LW displays the setup"?

What I meant, and I accept my understanding here is limited, is that as the plugins had been correctly installed and were still present in the plugin folder but missing from the menus where I'd configured them, the change that occurred is in the way LW is displaying the menu configuration. I'm probably mixing up my terminology and LW methodolgy somewhat but that's largely due to unfamiliarity with the way things work, so apologies for that .
The only rights issue I've encountered with windows security settings is that it doesn't allow saving files within the Newtek/LW program folder; consequently the content folder is in My Docs directory ( by default installation - I don't seem to get the option to choose that).
The config files are stored where LW writes them and I don't see any options for user-configuration where that's concerned. I should probably read the manual in greater depth to get better acquainted with all this - I'd just much rather be spending time on productive modeling and rendering :D
Thanks for the interest anyway - every little helps.

Aww167
11-12-2016, 02:30 PM
It's such an issue that LWG should make an ancillary program that safeguards the CFG files and lets the user know when they are changed.

yes, and lets the user tell LW where to store them too. Then again, if the way Windows operates is in any way at odds with how LW needs to function, that's something I would have thought would be addressed by LW....
which leads me to think that with there being no explicit support for Win 10 I should maybe run a dual boot with Win 7 and keep LW installed there. Probably save myself a whole load of grief in the process...

spherical
11-13-2016, 07:49 PM
I found it much smoother when the newtek-folder (and all related stuff, for that matter) is residing in the Root of the C:\ Drive.

I don't put them on C: at all. Yes, I know that there are "reasons" that everything should go into /Program Files or /Program Files (x86). Reality is that no one has an infinitely large Boot Drive. Fills up quickly enough, without installing every application there and then having disk reads/writes competing with the OS. Instead, I create a clone of sorts of those two directories on a secondary drive called /Apps and /Apps (x86) in order to keep sense of what is what that mimics the standard location.

spherical
11-13-2016, 07:54 PM
yes, and lets the user tell LW where to store them too.

Used to be that you can use a switch in a shortcut commandline to point configs where ever you like. Did this during v9 days when there were so many versions. Had to keep their configs separated. Never found a need to do it since v10, when the installer puts them under the /user directory by version, so don't know if the config redirect works in current versions.

cove
11-15-2016, 12:27 PM
I read the answers here to help you resolve your problem with no resolution as yet.
I see that you have tried reinstalling your Lightwave.
What im not clear about is weather you reinstalled again the present version you have now.
If so and software is faulty/corrupt then you will get same issue repeated.
Have you tried downloading a completly fresh version from your account?.
If you have not tried it already then it may sort your problem out.

This action, under advice, resolved a weird issue i had with Lightwave some time ago.

cove
11-15-2016, 02:25 PM
On the basis that your plugins are seen to be in place and i presume you know this via "Configure menues" as they will be listed there.

What happens after you have recreated new folders for the plugins that show as named tabs along the top of your modeler window.
Do things work normally untill you need to restart your computer and the problem reappears.

Im not that technically minded just trying to throw in a couple of comments that may promt a different answer that resolves your issue.

Aww167
11-18-2016, 12:07 PM
On the basis that your plugins are seen to be in place and i presume you know this via "Configure menues" as they will be listed there.

What happens after you have recreated new folders for the plugins that show as named tabs along the top of your modeler window.
Do things work normally untill you need to restart your computer and the problem reappears.

Im not that technically minded just trying to throw in a couple of comments that may promt a different answer that resolves your issue.

Just to clarify, the actual plugin files remain in their original install locations; I have created a separate folder for each plugin within the Newtek/Lightwave/2015.3/support/plugin/ folder directory so that; e.g. 3rd powers, syflex, octane etc, which all have individual plugin files, have their own individual folders among all the other folders inside the plugin directory. Throughout this issue the plugin files have not been affected - they remain where they were installed but , and this happened again today when I loaded up LW for the first time, the menu configuration for all my custom-configured plugins had again vanished and only the basic LW program loaded up. Good job I now keep a backup of the config files because all I have to do is copy/paste the backup files to their original location and the additional menu items are restored. Otherwise it would involve some considerable time setting everything up again.

Some have suggested this problem is a 'rights' issue, which I understand to mean that it could be due to Windows User Account security control settings - I like to keep my settings on the high side as that's what they're there for to my mind and I'm wary of any unauthorised program installs. If the problem does relate to this then it seems there's something fundamentally amiss with the way the security function operates because there is a a default procedure which alerts the user when installing files and requests confirmation; once this is given then whatever has been installed ought to be regarded by Windows as being within permitted limits.

Personally, I'm inclined to think there's something in the way LW is written which, since not having been updated to accommodate changes brought about with Win 10, is causing a problem - I don't know enough about software at that level to really appreciate the subtleties but clearly, because no other software on my computer seem to be affected like this ( Cubase has dozens of additional plugins for example - never have a single issue with it whatsoever), I take this to be a conflict between a new Win 10 OS and a LW version written for an earlier Windows version which isn't acknowledging certain changes that have occurred.
I'm still open to any other views nevertheless and interested to know if anyone here is running LW on Win 10 who has also experienced such issues.

Aww167
11-18-2016, 12:18 PM
I read the answers here to help you resolve your problem with no resolution as yet.
I see that you have tried reinstalling your Lightwave.
What im not clear about is weather you reinstalled again the present version you have now.
If so and software is faulty/corrupt then you will get same issue repeated.
Have you tried downloading a completly fresh version from your account?.
If you have not tried it already then it may sort your problem out.

This action, under advice, resolved a weird issue i had with Lightwave some time ago.


I understand the issue you're describing and yes, I made sure to download a fresh copy from the Newtek site. I appreciate the advice though.

fishhead
11-18-2016, 01:20 PM
Hmm, I experienced some odd behaviour at times under Win7, where my individual menu etc. entries that have been stored in an "external" config file did not show up at startup. I do not know for what reason, but with that installation I had to open the root folder where the config files reside, using a file browser (I used DOpus...) - in my case a local folder yet mapped as network drive - BEFORE double clicking the LW-Shortcuts and after doing so with next startup of LW all was good again... Maybe your setup has the same symptoms?!?

cove
11-18-2016, 03:07 PM
Just to clarify, the actual plugin files remain in their original install locations; I have created a separate folder for each plugin within the Newtek/Lightwave/2015.3/support/plugin/ folder directory so that; e.g. 3rd powers, syflex, octane etc, which all have individual plugin files, have their own individual folders among all the other folders inside the plugin directory. Throughout this issue the plugin files have not been affected - they remain where they were installed but , and this happened again today when I loaded up LW for the first time, the menu configuration for all my custom-configured plugins had again vanished and only the basic LW program loaded up. Good job I now keep a backup of the config files because all I have to do is copy/paste the backup files to their original location and the additional menu items are restored. Otherwise it would involve some considerable time setting everything up again.

Some have suggested this problem is a 'rights' issue, which I understand to mean that it could be due to Windows User Account security control settings - I like to keep my settings on the high side as that's what they're there for to my mind and I'm wary of any unauthorised program installs. If the problem does relate to this then it seems there's something fundamentally amiss with the way the security function operates because there is a a default procedure which alerts the user when installing files and requests confirmation; once this is given then whatever has been installed ought to be regarded by Windows as being within permitted limits.

Personally, I'm inclined to think there's something in the way LW is written which, since not having been updated to accommodate changes brought about with Win 10, is causing a problem - I don't know enough about software at that level to really appreciate the subtleties but clearly, because no other software on my computer seem to be affected like this ( Cubase has dozens of additional plugins for example - never have a single issue with it whatsoever), I take this to be a conflict between a new Win 10 OS and a LW version written for an earlier Windows version which isn't acknowledging certain changes that have occurred.
I'm still open to any other views nevertheless and interested to know if anyone here is running LW on Win 10 who has also experienced such issues.

If all else fails contact Lightwave Tech support.
Give them a brief description of your issue as they may be familiar with this and give a resolution in reply. They will ask for more info if needed.


Meantime id like to make a few comments that may or may not help.

Quote.
"when I loaded up LW for the first time, the menu configuration for all my custom-configured plugins had again vanished "

As you know after installing new plugins you need to close down Lightwave Layout or Modeler in order that the config file records the presence of the plugins. When you restart Lightwave you would normally have access to and be able to use your plugins.

Whenever i install plugins i get a notice "eg 2 plugins found "
But more often than not after closing down/restarting Lightwave the plugins are not there. I have to go through the process several times before the plugin is recodnised and remains in the software.

After a successfull install i like most people like to creat links to tabs
via "Configure menues" for ease of access.
I also close down and restart Lightwave after rearranging links.
Usually this second close down and restart works fine.

I maybe stating the obvios here and im shore you have covered all aspects
Just don,t know if others also have to do multiple installs of plugins before they are usable.


I have Lightwave 2015.3 and O/S Windows 10. Have no issues.
The only thing i can mention given that you think there maybe a conflicked in either Lightwave or O/S 10 is regarding O/S 10.
Updates to O/S 10 are downloaded and installed automatically so im always up to date.
Not shore if there is an option for this but have you for any reason chosen to not have automatic updates which may mean your O/S 10 needs to be updated.

No need to reply to this just glad to have tried to help out.
Hope your issue is resolved soon.

Aww167
11-18-2016, 03:13 PM
Hmm, I experienced some odd behaviour at times under Win7, where my individual menu etc. entries that have been stored in an "external" config file did not show up at startup. I do not know for what reason, but with that installation I had to open the root folder where the config files reside, using a file browser (I used DOpus...) - in my case a local folder yet mapped as network drive - BEFORE double clicking the LW-Shortcuts and after doing so with next startup of LW all was good again... Maybe your setup has the same symptoms?!?

That doesn't sound dissimilar to the problem I'm having. Personally I think Win7 was pretty near perfect, certainly for my purposes; It wouldn't surprise me to hear that there were issues affecting other users at all though. I'm not sure what you mean by an 'external' config file? Do you mean external to where LW installs it by default, or to an external physical HDD? Ahh, of course;
p.s. About config files: as I/we work over the network with shared plugins mostly, we also have all the config-files (along with most plugin files, etc.) stored on a dedicated shared network drive (X:\ in our case). The respective config files are redirected by using a shortcut on the desktop to start Layout and Modeler. Works like a charm over many, many years since v5 I believe, no matter what OS...

Yes, I now recall from your previous post. I'm not familiar with that setup - I understand what you mean but on a practical level I only have experience of working on a single machine and keeping things self-contained. I imagine a network scenario could open up a whole other set of potential issues, particularly in respect of user rights, but maybe this is related nonetheless.
I access the config files by first of all going into Control Panel, changing the 'view hidden folders' setting and then navigating to the Newtek folder via the C:/Username/Newtek/Lightwave etc. file path. A desktop shortcut would definitely be a time-saver actually. You are suggesting that having loaded up LW with issues present, you then close it and upon re-opening a second time everything is back to normal ? I admit I haven't tried that. Next time - I'm now certain there will be a next time - I'll try it and see. Does that mean that upon an initial load-up LW isn't properly accessing the config files for some reason? Actually I noticed there were fewer config files present when I went to paste the save files back in than I thought were there previously. Next time I'll check more thoroughly.
Thanks for the comment.

Aww167
11-18-2016, 03:26 PM
If all else fails contact Lightwave Tech support.

Yes, good advice and I will very likely do that. I just like trying to find solutions myself first. I'm too used to posting about an issue only to find I've overlooked something that was obvious to lots of other users and end up feeling stupid :)



Whenever i install plugins i get a notice "eg 2 plugins found "
But more often than not after closing down/restarting Lightwave the plugins are not there. I have to go through the process several times before the plugin is recodnised and remains in the software.

That's odd to my mind, and I would regard it as a fault of sorts, simply because the default situation (as far as I'm aware and certainly 100% true for my own experience) is for the plugins to fully load after an initial install. I have never had a problem with that and not sure why it would happen.


Hope your issue is resolved soon.

Thanks.

cove
11-19-2016, 10:08 AM
Yes, good advice and I will very likely do that. I just like trying to find solutions myself first. I'm too used to posting about an issue only to find I've overlooked something that was obvious to lots of other users and end up feeling stupid :)




That's odd to my mind, and I would regard it as a fault of sorts, simply because the default situation (as far as I'm aware and certainly 100% true for my own experience) is for the plugins to fully load after an initial install. I have never had a problem with that and not sure why it would happen.



Thanks.

Reply 1.
Putting a question to this forum or Tech support.

Yes do what you can to resolve an issue because it feels great when you have sorted it by yourself. But please do not pralong the issue because you may
feel stupid or something. Get your problem out to others as soon as possible. Members here always willing to help regardless weather the problem is simple or complex .
Look at the response your getting here.
I rest my case.

Reply 2.
Plugins not installing and sticking first time round.

Your reply gave me pause for thought.
I think i understand now what the issue is.
Commercial plugins eg. 3rDPowers etc usually have instructions to move/copy the plugin file to your Lightwave programme plugins folder and install plugin from inside Layout or Modeler from there.
Followed by instructions as to how to have access to them via config menues.
I only remember having an issue with one paid for plugin.
The multiple install aspect seems to accure with freebie plugins that ive aquired from the Lightwave site list or the internet and ive got loads of freebies.
With each of the plugins the only instruction is to load the plugin file via Modeler or Lightwave from the folder were you downloaded the plugin to and not much else [apart from the manual].
Seems that Lightwave has a problem recodnising/registering a freeby plugin when it exists in a folder other than its own programmes folder.
But the plugins have installed ok albeit after several goes.
Any other freebies i get i will install the plugin file to the programmes folder and hopefully they should work first time.

fishhead
11-20-2016, 08:53 AM
Does that mean that upon an initial load-up LW isn't properly accessing the config files for some reason? Yes, thatīs exactly what happened under that installation.
My procedure as I had no other solution: When I noticed LW came up with only the default menu layout. I opened up Windows Task Manager (Ctrl-Alt-Del) killed the LW process(es) running to prevent LW to write ANYTHING to disk - as cove already pointed out: LW writes the config on (a regular) exit. After LW was no longer in memory. I navigated to the folder where the config files are located (I basically opened the door for the current user [Myself] to acces that place, I believe...) and after I did this and nothing else I could start LW again and everything was as you expect it to... This at least worked for me... YMMV of course...

I strongly suggest to install LW no deeper than "C:\Newtek". Windows often enough seems to have its very own ways to deal with permissions, especially in case of the "C:\...\Username\..." folders. There it seems overly protective to me...

spherical
11-22-2016, 08:19 PM
I strongly suggest to install LW no deeper than "C:\Newtek". Windows often enough seems to have its very own ways to deal with permissions, especially in case of the "C:\...\Username\..." folders. There it seems overly protective to me...

I install all of my versions in D:\Applications\3D\LightWave\[version_number] with zero issues on both 64-bit and 32-bit boxes (the former of which go into D:\Applications\... and D:\Applications (x86)\... respectively, in order to mimic the usual structure keeping the two bit-depths separated). The configs, however, go into the standard \Username\... location, also without issue.

On restoring backup config files in order to get menus back, I would suggest exporting menu customizations and tabs that can then be imported, as opposed to restoring an entire set of configs. Doing the latter may bring back that which is causing the problem, because it exists elsewhere in the config file and just raises its head again when the time is opportune.

Shloime
01-14-2018, 04:45 AM
Hi there. Digging out an old thread, but I got the same problem again with 2018 and had it already in 11.6. As the TO describes, after changing a lot of menu entries via "edit menus" and restarting modeler all the work is gone and modeler is reset to its initial menu setup. After investigating a bit it seems to be a thing with rights on Windows (Win7 and 10 behave the same here). Any working AND easy solution yet?
What does "Autoscan plugins" and why can't I get rid of that "Additional" tab with all installed plugins in it?
Next question: Now with 2018.0.1 out it is recommended to install it in its own folder, thereby creating another config path. What would be the easiest way to restore all my work with interface colors, menu branches and other settings?