PDA

View Full Version : Really really hope that LW3D Group is looking into VR/AR



Dillon
11-05-2016, 07:46 AM
The field is about to explode, especially AR.

Take a look at this plugin for Maya. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u76q0ifAEw&feature=youtu.be

So much better than the now dead oculus plugin that was being developed for LightWave.

The thing about this is curious. Rob Powers already has a live studio system built into layout. It wouldn't be too hard to plug a HMD into the camera system, and to plug in the controllers from the vive or oculus as motion controllers / inputs for animation.

Markc
11-05-2016, 12:22 PM
Are you referring to Ubercam as 'dead oculus plugin'.

50one
11-05-2016, 01:54 PM
Are you referring to Ubercam as 'dead oculus plugin'.

I guess he is. Given the clash between Kat and Lino I would be more than surprised to see anything done to it.
Although LWG could have their own solution, maybe that's why Kat was so upset. Who knows...

Dillon
11-05-2016, 02:22 PM
Are you referring to Ubercam as 'dead oculus plugin'.

Yes :(

I bought it. But after watching the bloody fight between Lino and Kat, I don't Ubercam is being developed anymore.

Airwaves
11-05-2016, 02:45 PM
That would be incredibly sad to hear if ubercam is dead. I use it a lot for educational videos I make and I love it. It has some bugs every now and again but overall has been great for my uses.

Markc
11-05-2016, 04:07 PM
Yes :(

I bought it. But after watching the bloody fight between Lino and Kat, I don't Ubercam is being developed anymore.

This is all news to me!
I must have been hiding under a rock.

There's a post on Liberty 3D site two days ago from Kat about the 300th copy sold.

Nicolas Jordan
11-05-2016, 06:59 PM
Ubercam is a great solution mainly because it allows you to do things that the current version of Lightwave can not do. Some of these things can be set up with the Advanced Camera but then rendering is very slow since it doesn't use multiple threads properly. I purchased Ubercam but have not yet used it in production. There is nothing wrong with the dev team implementing these features natively in Lightwave. There are always pros and cons to 3rd party plugins. When it really comes down to it I would expect at least some of this functionality to come with Lightwave so it wouldn't surprise me to see it show up in Lightwave 2017 or whatever it ends up being called.

So which forum was this disagreement that everyone is referring to between Lino and Kat?

samurai_x
11-05-2016, 08:36 PM
Wasn't it an invisible war? They couldn't see each others post anyway.

jwiede
11-06-2016, 12:37 AM
I believe Kat is adult enough to put what's best for his business ahead of personal feelings regarding LW3DG or Lino.

starbase1
11-06-2016, 02:58 AM
Is there anything more basic that will work for lightwave?

I've just ordered one of those headsets that holds your phone in front of your face. It would be really cool to make anything for it, even a static environment to look around, or a still image of my meshes in 3d. I remember doing QTVR environments a long time ago, but can't remember how I did it...

Markc
11-06-2016, 03:52 AM
There's nothing easier than Ubercam for this.
Select camera type and render.....done.

You can view the 360 images on cardboard or similar with your device.
The only annoyance with this is having to get them on your phone each time.

I use Kolor Eyes on my mac.
Once rendered from Lightwave/Ubercam, you just drop image onto app and view on Oculus Rift.
You can also view the images on screen (without a headset).

erikals
11-06-2016, 06:05 AM
there's definitely a future in VR.

pinkmouse
11-06-2016, 06:06 AM
Just like 3D TV's then...

Markc
11-06-2016, 06:12 AM
I still think it could go either way.
It is definitely beneficial in certain fields.
I have a couple of games on my Gear VR, which look fantastic.
But because of the full immersive-ness factor, I can't use it for more than about 30 mins without getting really spaced out (it really does affect your senses).
Unlike old school console games you can play for hours on end.

wesleycorgi
11-06-2016, 06:40 AM
Yes, ubercam makes it really easy to create VR content, such as YouTube 360 video. And as mentioned, you can convert your smartphone into a VR device for $15 or less. I think Kat won't abandoned ubercam; he was just celebrating his 300th sell.

Qexit
11-06-2016, 07:13 AM
Just like 3D TV's then...Could be, it depends on whether or not the companies involved follow the same self-detructive path. I don't know about the rest of the world but I think that here in the UK interest in them was killed off by the same film that had people wanting to buy one in the first place. After seeing 'Avatar' in glorious 3D in the cinemas, a whole load of people wanted to dash out and buy a 3D TV so they could watch it all over again in the comfort of their own homes. Sadly, after rushing out and buying a shiny new 3D TV set they discovered they couldn't go to Amazon and pick up a copy of the film to go with it. Aside from the usual delay between when a film is shown in the cinema and it getting released to the retail market, there was another far more insurmountable and annoying obstacle: Panasonic had done a deal with the film company that meant the only way to get Avatar 3D on Blu-ray was to buy a Panasonic 3D TV. So no Panasonic TV, no Avatar 3D unless you were prepared to pay an arm and a leg to pick up a copy off eBay. By the time the deal lapsed about three years later, nobody cared and the wave of poor quality 3D conversion films that had been obtainable in the meantime meant people just lost interest in 3D at home. At least, that's my take on it all :)

You still can't get the extended 3D version of Avatar in 3D on Blu-ray.

rustythe1
11-06-2016, 08:22 AM
they seem to have carried on that with new film releases, for a time the 3d and 2d came on the same disc, now its gone back to a big delay, or sometimes the disc does not even state that it has the 3d version, like the Martian, if you search for 3d on amazon, no where on the case or specs does it say its 3d, but it is, star wars force awakens has only just been released even though the 2d came out easter time, there are a couple of films that were 3d in the cinema and still have not had a bluray release, it seems Disney, ridley scott and Cameron are the only ones using it any more, shame as some of us do like it when its done well,

Markc
11-06-2016, 08:27 AM
A lot of the Marvel stuff is usually in IMAX 3D, just saw Doctor Strange IMAX 3D...whoa totally mind blowing.

erikals
11-06-2016, 10:26 AM
if only they could pull out their finger and start mass producing glasses-free 3D TVs... sigh...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9STBsPHIEPA

starbase1
11-06-2016, 12:15 PM
Ubercam eh?

That sounds like what I need, thanks!
Nick

erikals
11-06-2016, 12:32 PM
Ubercam eh?
not impossible that i'll get one too.

fishhead
11-07-2016, 04:59 AM
own two licenses and never felt sorry about the investment: its a great set of camera plugins, integrate seamlessly, worth every single cent and not just for the VR portion of it...

The Dommo
11-07-2016, 04:07 PM
I know they had a spat but I also know that Lino has respect for (and has even bought) tools from Kat's site, Liberty3D.

Dillon
11-07-2016, 04:08 PM
I know they had a spat but I also know that Lino has respect for (and has even bought) tools from Kat's site, Liberty3D.

I hope it's still being developed. The Mac version is pretty limited and buggy. Kat hasn't posted since that very public facebook fight with Lino.

jwiede
11-07-2016, 06:24 PM
I hope it's still being developed. The Mac version is pretty limited and buggy. Kat hasn't posted since that very public facebook fight with Lino.

Actually, except for a few VR-specific issues, Ubercam is generally stable and functional as expected on Mac.

Even w.r.t. the VR aspects, the main missing bit is the ability to view via Oculus (which, admittedly, Chilton said was coming even after Oculus stopped supporting Mac), but considering the situation there, I'd not recommend holding your breath for Mac Oculus viewer (due to Oculus dropping Mac SDK support). I've heard of one other bug related to field-of-view handling with specific VR target geometry with the Ubercam "VR camera" for LW (Mac plugin version), but haven't encountered it personally.

Beyond those two issues, as far as I've experienced (I have Ubercam and use it on LW2015.3 MacUB64), just about all the rest of the VR functionality appears to be working. To be clear, I have not tested every mode of every VR setting, but I have used a bunch. It is definitely worth noting that Ubercam offers a LOT more functionality that just VR support. In that context, I would not characterize Ubercam on LW Mac as either "pretty limited" or "buggy". If your only interest for Ubercam is obtaining Oculus viewing, then Ubercam for Mac is not going to currently solve that need, but for many, many other VR and non-VR needs and situations Ubercam is perfectly functional.

As an Oculus owner myself, I am disappointed the Oculus viewing mode hasn't appeared, but as Oculus has mostly dropped Mac SDK support, I see that as an Oculus issue more than an Ubercam issue. Aside from that one aspect, I am extremely satisfied with Ubercam's stability and functionality on Mac.

YMMV, IANSFMS, IANAL, etc.

Spinland
11-08-2016, 04:37 AM
FWIW I picked up a copy of Ubercam yesterday (thanks, Kat, for your always-fast turnarounds) and, despite all conventional wisdom to the contrary, kicked off some client jobs using some of the new linear camera types (perspective with and without motion blur, to be specific). Worked a treat on my primary Mac workstation, as well as on my mixed render farm of Macs and PCs. No glitches, top quality renders, and a small but noticeable uptick in render speed.

YMMV.

Nicolas Jordan
11-08-2016, 10:20 AM
I hope it's still being developed. The Mac version is pretty limited and buggy. Kat hasn't posted since that very public facebook fight with Lino.

So those kind of discussions take place these days.

ConjureBunny
11-08-2016, 11:54 PM
Hi,

Kat is in charge of marketing, and generally is the head of the Liberty3D group. Ubercam 2 is mostly my code. Ubercam itself was Kiko's creation, but he went off to do some other stuff and left the code for me. That gave me one hell of a jumping off point--I absolutely would not be where I am with Ubercam if it weren't for that. But everything in there for 2.0 with regard to VR is 100% my stuff. That stereoscopic single pass renderer is a result of a ton of math that I still can't believe I figured out. I'm really not good at math.

Now, as far as I know, Lino and I get along just fine. I'm not trying to say we're best friends or anything, but I have absolutely no problems with him, and I don't think he has any problems with me.

So I spent the better part of a year making the Oculus Rift stuff work with Layout and that virtual studio system, so you could walk around a scene in Layout, see what you're looking at through the Oculus Rift in real time, and record your head movements in the scene. If you're animating a floating hat, or a pair of sunglasses or something, that's definitely the way to do it. I don't personally need to do that, but I figure someone might, right? Anyway, I'm currently working on a series of updates to it, and they're just taking longer than I'd hoped.

The new version fixes a few bugs in rendering on a render farm where you might own multiple licenses, and in a few situations where you'd hit these absolutely ridiculous Windows 10 permissions bugs. They'd manifest as crashes, but it all came down to permissions. So the new version gets around that.

In the near future, after this next update, I'll have support for direct display in Oculus Rift. Basically I get to rewrite all of that, and I just look at it and wonder what the hell I'm doing. But it would be really cool, and will speed things up significantly. Plus, I'd probably just use that time to watch YouTube videos anyway, so I might as well make something cool, right?

In the slightly less soon timeframe (hopefully before Christmas) I'll have OSVR and HTC Vive support in there, so you can record more than just head movement on the Vive. The OSVR guys sent me one of their headsets to play with, too, so as soon as possible I'll be adding support for that, too.

My ultimate goal, lofty (and possibly impossible) as it may be, is to make it possible to actually work with objects in Layout, in VR, so you can walk into a scene and place things with the Vive or Oculus hand controllers, without needing to touch the keyboard. That would be awesome.

So, it's not dead, it's just really, really slow. So slow it can't even stop fast. So slow it could be mistaken for a county ballot counter in the US Presidential Election. But not dead. :)

-Chilton

Chris S. (Fez)
11-09-2016, 01:12 AM
So, it's not dead

-Chilton

Glad to hear it.

Spinland
11-09-2016, 03:39 AM
Ubercam 2 is mostly my code.

:thumbsup:

Markc
11-09-2016, 12:05 PM
Chilton,

I know it's complicated stuff, and what you have created is awesome :bowdown:
Do you think the Mac viewer will ever work (since oculus dropped support).
Either way, it's a great plugin.

ConjureBunny
11-09-2016, 02:21 PM
Oh yeah, the Oculus viewer problem is absolutely solvable.
Just a matter of time.

Also, thank you :)

-Chilton

mummyman
11-09-2016, 02:35 PM
Go Chilton!!!!

jwiede
11-10-2016, 01:01 PM
Hi,

Kat is in charge of marketing, and generally is the head of the Liberty3D group. Ubercam 2 is mostly my code. Ubercam itself was Kiko's creation, but he went off to do some other stuff and left the code for me. That gave me one hell of a jumping off point--I absolutely would not be where I am with Ubercam if it weren't for that. But everything in there for 2.0 with regard to VR is 100% my stuff. That stereoscopic single pass renderer is a result of a ton of math that I still can't believe I figured out. I'm really not good at math.

Now, as far as I know, Lino and I get along just fine. I'm not trying to say we're best friends or anything, but I have absolutely no problems with him, and I don't think he has any problems with me.

So I spent the better part of a year making the Oculus Rift stuff work with Layout and that virtual studio system, so you could walk around a scene in Layout, see what you're looking at through the Oculus Rift in real time, and record your head movements in the scene. If you're animating a floating hat, or a pair of sunglasses or something, that's definitely the way to do it. I don't personally need to do that, but I figure someone might, right? Anyway, I'm currently working on a series of updates to it, and they're just taking longer than I'd hoped.

The new version fixes a few bugs in rendering on a render farm where you might own multiple licenses, and in a few situations where you'd hit these absolutely ridiculous Windows 10 permissions bugs. They'd manifest as crashes, but it all came down to permissions. So the new version gets around that.

In the near future, after this next update, I'll have support for direct display in Oculus Rift. Basically I get to rewrite all of that, and I just look at it and wonder what the hell I'm doing. But it would be really cool, and will speed things up significantly. Plus, I'd probably just use that time to watch YouTube videos anyway, so I might as well make something cool, right?

In the slightly less soon timeframe (hopefully before Christmas) I'll have OSVR and HTC Vive support in there, so you can record more than just head movement on the Vive. The OSVR guys sent me one of their headsets to play with, too, so as soon as possible I'll be adding support for that, too.

My ultimate goal, lofty (and possibly impossible) as it may be, is to make it possible to actually work with objects in Layout, in VR, so you can walk into a scene and place things with the Vive or Oculus hand controllers, without needing to touch the keyboard. That would be awesome.

So, it's not dead, it's just really, really slow. So slow it can't even stop fast. So slow it could be mistaken for a county ballot counter in the US Presidential Election. But not dead. :)

-Chilton

Thanks Chilton! Really appreciate the update info, and generally appreciate all your time, effort, and hard work (as always)!

Well there you have it (from the actual author's mouth), Ubercam is still being developed.

Spinland
11-10-2016, 05:34 PM
I will be among the many to be honest and state my disquiet over some entity's silence. I get it. I just don't see any value added in my voicing my gripes. On the other hand, I will—and do—call out service and dedication above and beyond, as the metaphor goes. 3rd Powers has stood up to the plate and delivered quality capabilities that have resulted in measurable ROI for my little studio. Were I still on active duty as an officer I'd have their citation wordsmithed and ready to present. :jam:

jwiede
11-11-2016, 03:45 AM
3rd Powers has stood up to the plate and delivered quality capabilities that have resulted in measurable ROI for my little studio.

QFA. 3rdPowers deserve commendation both for their quality products, and their commitment to the LW community in general!

Zerowaitstate
11-15-2016, 01:05 AM
I was at the OC3 conference in early october, and made some fantastic contacts. is there any resources you are needing that i might be able to facilitate getting to you. are you currently using CV1?. would it be worth trying to get you some Touch controllers ?. PM me, ill see what i can do to help.

I have always been an advocate of getting LW to be one of the premier asset creation tools

PM me if you thing i can help :)

Dillon
11-15-2016, 02:17 PM
Very relieved to hear that Ubercam is still being developed!

I'll be jumping ship from Mac to PC shortly, hopefully the bugs and limitations that I'm experiencing with the Mac won't be present with the PC version.

Zerowaitstate
11-15-2016, 06:14 PM
I was at the OC3 conference in early october, and made some fantastic contacts. is there any resources you are needing that i might be able to facilitate getting to you. are you currently using CV1?. would it be worth trying to get you some Touch controllers ?. PM me, ill see what i can do to help.

I have always been an advocate of getting LW to be one of the premier asset creation tools

PM me if you thing i can help :)

https://twitter.com/oculus/status/798676002784296960

basically a free touch if your a dev

ConjureBunny
11-17-2016, 11:49 AM
https://twitter.com/oculus/status/798676002784296960

basically a free touch if your a dev

Hey thank you Z, I have requested my free Touch. Or Touches. Or something.

I am actually missing that piece of the puzzle for my Oculus Rift setup.

-Chilton

Markc
11-17-2016, 12:54 PM
Chilton, don't know if you have a windows setup too, but from what I've read the touch doesn't work with the DK1 or DK2.

ConjureBunny
11-17-2016, 04:05 PM
Chilton, don't know if you have a windows setup too, but from what I've read the touch doesn't work with the DK1 or DK2.

Yeah I had to finally drop some coin on a decent PC rig. The VR space is just taking off too fast on the Windows side, and we've got crickets from Apple on the likelihood of decent graphics cards there. It's annoying as hell.

I still do a bulk of my work on my Mac, but I'm finding myself using Remote Desktop into my Windows box more and more lately :)

-Chilton

mummyman
11-17-2016, 05:02 PM
Yeah I had to finally drop some coin on a decent PC rig. The VR space is just taking off too fast on the Windows side, and we've got crickets from Apple on the likelihood of decent graphics cards there. It's annoying as hell.

I still do a bulk of my work on my Mac, but I'm finding myself using Remote Desktop into my Windows box more and more lately :)

-Chilton

Did you build a rig? What did you end up going with?

hrgiger
11-19-2016, 02:50 AM
I believe Kat is adult enough to put what's best for his business ahead of personal feelings regarding LW3DG or Lino.

Well apparently not since he lost his status as an authorized reseller of LightWave.

erikals
11-19-2016, 06:26 AM
would've ordered from them if i could, but they lost the license due to too few sales i believe.
Kat is a true LightWaver, and will do what he feels is best based on that.

ConjureBunny
11-19-2016, 08:57 PM
Did you build a rig? What did you end up going with?

Oh I just ended up buying one of these: http://www.asus.com/Tower-PCs/ROG-G20CB/

...and replaced some of the guts.

-Chilton

jwiede
11-19-2016, 09:19 PM
Well apparently not since he lost his status as an authorized reseller of LightWave.

That's an action taken by LW3DG, not by Kat.

jwiede
11-19-2016, 09:31 PM
would've ordered from them if i could, but they lost the license due to too few sales i believe.

That sounds quite plausible. Has either side shown any indication or evidence the FB spat had anything to do with that occurrence?

If it wasn't because of low sales (or equiv. business reason), doing so would be senseless, because LW3DG would just be hurting their own revenue.

Jaqen
11-20-2016, 01:04 AM
I don't think anyone should buy anything until this situation is resolved.
...and yes that would put pressure on 3rd party devs - too bad.

ConjureBunny
11-20-2016, 12:41 PM
I don't think anyone should buy anything until this situation is resolved.
...and yes that would put pressure on 3rd party devs - too bad.

Which situation specifically?

I'm a programmer, not a magician :D

-Chilton

PetGerbil
11-22-2016, 06:08 PM
Which situation specifically?

I'm a programmer, not a magician :D

-Chilton

Can't you be both ? "The Great Chiltoni !" has got a nice ring to it.

ConjureBunny
11-22-2016, 08:03 PM
Can't you be both ? "The Great Chiltoni !" has got a nice ring to it.

That is how I usually refer to myself, so I suppose I can do that.

Because I'm humble like that.

-Chilton

view3d
11-26-2016, 06:42 PM
Chilton,
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply here and letting us know what is in the works! Can't wait to see the new capabilities you are working on!
Regards,
Daniel