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Marander
11-03-2016, 02:23 PM
Just got the license and download link for my Vue xStream 2016 upgrade!

Key new features in VUE 2016 include:

Integration: Export almost any assets, including full scenes and EcoSystem populations
xStream Convert tool: render your scenes with any renderer such as RenderMan, Arnold, Octane, VRayRT, etc.
Hybrid GPU/CPU Interactive Path Tracer enabling GPU rendering
Heightfield Terrains: New Terrain Modeling technology, more flexible and a lot more Powerful!
Multiple Global EcoSystem Layers, that can be saved as EcoPainter Brushes
PlantFactory Variations: Easily and quickly add more realism to your scenes and improve productivity at the same time!
Fully customizable workspace and HiDPI display support

And a lot more

prometheus
11-03-2016, 02:37 PM
No link?
let me know if they introduced any new types of density fractals for clouds, everytime I checked the ple versions, there has only been those main designed for other purposes than actual clouds, and I am not talking about the various spectral cloud layers and their lighting and shading quality and options, but what they actually are connected to in the noise functions..so the actual noise functions that needs better fractals.

Ivé always liked working in vue, and still do, since I like the presets, the speed, painting of echosystems, painting and styling terrain and fast results, but the quality of the cloud fractals in the newly released terragen 4 is really nice, previously I would mostly
vote for vue, but now I am uncertain...I donīt like the terragen UI, or working in it, but it gives the best lighting, shading and cloud quality of them all.

foremost vue needs to step up on the cloud technology, as well as aa quality, I also think it needs to adress itīs color system of finished render, or fix materials..it often has that painted look.

prometheus
11-03-2016, 02:40 PM
I just looked at their site, a press release with text only features? that isnīt looking good for promotion, did I miss something?
Ah..I missed the links they put in the end of that as youtube links without images...they should smack that up more clear.

Marander
11-03-2016, 03:02 PM
No link?

No this was only a mail for maintenance users I just got, I think the public / marketing info will follow.

About the clouds, I don't think they changed alot here, but are you aware of the possibility to modify the metanodes in the function editor at your will? there are many many fractal and noise types as well as 3rd party metanodes. For example there is a plugin called CloudControl.

134963

Edit - another example of Vue (2015) cloud parameters.

134966

I will let you know if I find anything changed in the 2016 cloud settings. And yes, the Terragen 4 clouds look really nice.

Marander
11-03-2016, 04:27 PM
Update: The 2016 settings seems to be more streamlined and accessible and there are some new options. It's possible now to easily switch between the different editor tabs (include function metanodes). And, very cool: The cloud preview can be seen directly in the function editor. There seems also to be compound nodes (I haven't seen this before). Overall the program feels more responsive (just a first impression).

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prometheus
11-03-2016, 06:21 PM
No this was only a mail for maintenance users I just got, I think the public / marketing info will follow.

About the clouds, I don't think they changed alot here, but are you aware of the possibility to modify the metanodes in the function editor at your will? there are many many fractal and noise types as well as 3rd party metanodes. For example there is a plugin called CloudControl.

134963

Edit - another example of Vue (2015) cloud parameters.

134966

I will let you know if I find anything changed in the 2016 cloud settings. And yes, the Terragen 4 clouds look really nice.

yes I am aware you can modify metanodes, but that make no big difference, the main fractal you showcased there is basic repeater it isnīt designed with clouds in mind, and tweaking them to death is in my opinion almost a dead end since you are performing tweaks on top of the basic repeater not actually controlling parameters within the basic repeater, there are however certain other fractals that are better for clouds, but they are still not on par with terragens cloud fractals or even some of the weather procedurals that exists in lightwave.
in your image you can see typical puffs, that happens a lot with so many vue cloud renders because so many do not bother to tweak them better, but it is also hard to get good ones going anyway.

The new easy clouds in Terragen is way better, when a cloud volume is lesser and drifting away from a main cloud, it seems to dissolve feather out as most cloud volumes do in real life, and the turbulence noise scaling is very realistic as well, where you in vue have to really tweak hard to get it decent.
with vue comes easy setup..but it is often too much turbulence noise or too little and often it is full of minor puffs that lives outside the main cloud that simply looks unrealistic..which can be seen in your vue preview a lot, I reckon the helios plugin is making it better, but there was some things I didnīt like with it in the demonstration..and there isnīt a demo to be trying out for vue ple versions either and it would come with twice the cost, first vue and then helios.

Check this image from the terragen 4 thread upper right corner...

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134959&d=1478119390


with All that negative impressions of vue cloud fractals said, I do like the ui and the control and itīs easier to work with, I dislike terragens UI and controls, I canīt use commaīs only in the numeric tab only punctuation in the middle of the keyboard, and many other ui things I do not like.

and otherwise all the presets materials and preview is pretty fast and easy to acess in vue, and I like the control of fog and haze better than editing it in terragen.

There would be no question about softwave if I had terragen cloud fractals and lighting and shading and micropolygon engine as well as aa handling, but replaced to live inside of vue for almost everything else, I would call the software PROMETHEUS :)

prometheus
11-03-2016, 06:46 PM
I forgot to mention, one trick in vue for sligthly better noise of clouds, is to completly disable the density fractal funciton and only use density curves and use only the main cloud scaling tab, a problem with that is that it will generate a bit of too much uniform coverage in the sky, but the turbulence in the clouds can be more realistic.

c.1
11-03-2016, 08:41 PM
Woah, a "2016" product ready in 2016= mind blown:devil:
I look forward to seeing what trickles down to Vue Complete 2016.

CaptainMarlowe
11-03-2016, 11:53 PM
Do we have info on the hybrid renderer ? Is is cuda or opencl ?

Marander
11-04-2016, 12:45 AM
Do we have info on the hybrid renderer ? Is is cuda or opencl ?

It works on AMD / NVidia / PC / Mac so therefore I guess OpenCL. However a bit disappointing is that the Pathtracer doesn't work for clouds and procedural materials. This is an example scene a user rendered:
https://flic.kr/p/NJhaEv

Marander
11-04-2016, 01:04 AM
I forgot to mention, one trick in vue for sligthly better noise of clouds, is to completly disable the density fractal funciton and only use density curves and use only the main cloud scaling tab, a problem with that is that it will generate a bit of too much uniform coverage in the sky, but the turbulence in the clouds can be more realistic.

Thanks for your feedback. Yes, getting the nice / realistic looking clouds can be challenging / difficult in Vue. You certainly have much experience in cloud renders. However I've seen many nice Vue cloud renders and I'm quite happy with my own results too. Unfortunately Helios seems not developed anymore but it was very expensive and it was using the underlying Vue functionality in my opinion.

prometheus
11-04-2016, 10:33 AM
Thanks for your feedback. Yes, getting the nice / realistic looking clouds can be challenging / difficult in Vue. You certainly have much experience in cloud renders. However I've seen many nice Vue cloud renders and I'm quite happy with my own results too. Unfortunately Helios seems not developed anymore but it was very expensive and it was using the underlying Vue functionality in my opinion.

Yes for main density shape and for the proper turbulence scale of a cloud you can cet nice ones, it still isnīt on par with terragen and it is tricky to get right, ofcourse once you get it right saving to a preset is always nice and good, but the feather dissolve and the actual light scattering is behind terragens cloud system for sure.

I do not know the status of helios unfortunatly, when helios got out, I was interested, though I think it got of to a bad start and not marketed properly, I think he would have needed a demoversion running..and also for those who got ple versions, that is one of the reasons I never got it at all,in todays world of graphic tools, you really wanīt to try them out and first I would have to be sure of getting the full vue, then helios, I also noticed that when dax pandhi mades tweaks in the cloudlet editor, he always had to click update, and such respons isnīt my idea of good workflow feedback, it should update instantly if you choose to set it like that.
Dax Pandhi told me though that the cloud functions in helios had partly itīs own cloud functions designed for itīs purpose.


Michael

prometheus
11-04-2016, 10:50 AM
I wonder, which landscape terrain software will be the first to implement a fluid solution, or just openVDB to bring in simulated fluids as cached files to vue or terragen for instance, though it would probably initially be limited to hero clouds or mid large scaled cloud areas.
It believe the one that does may get an upperhand in sales.

m.d.
11-04-2016, 12:13 PM
Other way around...

Terragen is looking at VDB export.
There cloud fractals are awesome....but there are far more efficient renders out there.

The biggest use for both of these products is stills for compositing plates....very rarely are they used for animation as they are the 2 slowest renders in the pro 3D field.

prometheus
11-04-2016, 12:31 PM
Other way around...

Terragen is looking at VDB export.
There cloud fractals are awesome....but there are far more efficient renders out there.

The biggest use for both of these products is stills for compositing plates....very rarely are they used for animation as they are the 2 slowest renders in the pro 3D field.

That is ofcourse interesting, but may be unnecessary if you can push out fluid cache anyway, and still going to render with lightwave for instance, I do not think you would get the shading and lighting correct with vdb, only the volumetric data mostly, so why not simply simulate cloud fields or objects with turbulence? the generated fluid simulation result would be more realistic than anything the cloud fractal noise can produce in terragen, if you work it right that is.

terragen export to vdb would only yield clouds based on its fractals, not based upon a true flow of fluids as clouds are in real life, thus I think it may not be that of worth, but instead the other way around, getting fluid simulation data for the cloud volume and use it with terragens lighting, shading and atmosphere.

Hereīs a Movie sample of Terragen cloud sequence, how much of the cloud that is actually moving I donīt know, but they probably have had it animated in the sequence, not just still composite, so it isnīt unheard of..
clouds, storm an lighting mostly done in terragen (mostly :) ) by pixomondo, but you really never know for sure since they rarely seem to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth:) probably some real photage element mixing, maybe even fluid elements.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UqJxNYJ-k0

Michael

Marander
11-04-2016, 01:48 PM
I do not know the status of helios unfortunatly, when helios got out

"Helios has been discontinued and is no longer in active development."

http://www.quadspinner.com/Helios/Index

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, here are the Vue 2016 youtube showcase videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/eonsoftware/videos

prometheus
11-04-2016, 02:17 PM
"Helios has been discontinued and is no longer in active development."

http://www.quadspinner.com/Helios/Index

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, here are the Vue 2016 youtube showcase videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/eonsoftware/videos

Yeah..I figured, too little interest I guess, and there was no good marketing of it in the eon pages I suppose, and introducing a plugin people canīt test is doomed to fail in my opinion, it was promising, but ultimately probably to expensive and to uncertain what it could do if there wasnīt a demo released to try it out, you could take it by chance and make it look good on the pages as he did, but todays folks want to try, not buy things like a pig in the sack so to speak.

Yes, I have already seen those, but good for others to have the links here.

m.d.
11-04-2016, 06:52 PM
That is ofcourse interesting, but may be unnecessary if you can push out fluid cache anyway, and still going to render with lightwave for instance, I do not think you would get the shading and lighting correct with vdb, only the volumetric data mostly, so why not simply simulate cloud fields or objects with turbulence? the generated fluid simulation result would be more realistic than anything the cloud fractal noise can produce in terragen, if you work it right that is.

terragen export to vdb would only yield clouds based on its fractals, not based upon a true flow of fluids as clouds are in real life, thus I think it may not be that of worth, but instead the other way around, getting fluid simulation data for the cloud volume and use it with terragens lighting, shading and atmosphere.

Hereīs a Movie sample of Terragen cloud sequence, how much of the cloud that is actually moving I donīt know, but they probably have had it animated in the sequence, not just still composite, so it isnīt unheard of..
clouds, storm an lighting mostly done in terragen (mostly :) ) by pixomondo, but you really never know for sure since they rarely seem to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth:) probably some real photage element mixing, maybe even fluid elements.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UqJxNYJ-k0

Michael

Ya it's not unheard of.....just not super common. Mostly would be 2.5D....clouds flythroughs probably the exception.

As far as rendering the VDB's....in my experience I would way rather render in octane for speed. May have to do some comp passes to get the same post effects, but the terragen render is not doing anything revolutionary....just 3 bounce scattering in the clouds, octane I am usually at 4-6 bounces with reasonable times....the TG atmosphere is set up very well though....so there is that.... Vue with its ecosystem animation is another matter.....that may be better rendered in Vue, but TG doesnt offer a whole lot that cant be done externally faster.

Even though fluid clouds are the more realistic.....there are tons of high end movie/commercial examples done with what became houdini's default cloud setup (with some extra wisp sims) and that is basically just fractals as well.

Just my opinion though...having used both Vue, TG quite a bit as well as octane. Depends on your needs and workflow....if its top notch clouds, as photo-realistic as technically possible....then probably fluid sim to TG4.
For a lot of "good-enough" sims.....way faster using an external render.

Marander
11-05-2016, 05:00 AM
The official info is out now, there is detailed further description of the new features for who's interested and some beautiful images.

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_2016_xstream/?page=new


Edit: Interesting, LWO2 (along with LWO) is listed as import format, is this for LW 2017? Also for the xStream convert it currently only works for 3ds Max, Maya and Cinema4D. So maybe they prepared a LW 2017 compatibility. LWS is supported as scene / animation export format.

Edit2: The page for Prometheus :-) http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_2016_xstream/?page=10 (yeah not many new things there I know)

JohnMarchant
11-05-2016, 06:36 AM
LWO2 is not new at all from what i see. Many software vendors have quoted LWO and LWO2 in the past. Not actually sure but i think LWO2 referrers to a format after LW 5 where as LWO is for LW 5 some time ago.

Indeed SAP visual Enterprise has the ability to save LW 5 or LW 6 and i think this is where the LWO and LWO2 come from, someone can please correct me if im wrong.

prometheus
11-06-2016, 09:16 AM
Itīs of course up to me to keep track and I will probably get a notification in my email, but if the ple is out...please do jump in here and notify on that, if you happen to remember.

Vue is jampacked with features indeed, the road tools, the terrain editing tools, good water shaders, weather particles and now the new render etc, I like that they provide library presets etc..and with xstream probably a good workflow to lightwave, though some folks have shouted..no that itīs good or working decently.

Meanwhile I will try and get more comfortable with the settings in the new demo of Terragen 4, though I really loath the Ui and the parameter controls and navigation, but I adore the quality of the air and clouds, even though the new raytraced preview is much faster in terragen, it is still slow..a bit too slow still in my opinion, maybe 2 times faster and I think it reaches some acceptable preview iteration speed.

Michael