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samurai_x
10-16-2016, 08:30 PM
Love unreal. Quality keeps going higher and higher.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl0zpgmROLk

Unreal scene.
https://80.lv/articles/star-wars-scene-production-in-ue4/

samurai_x
10-16-2016, 08:39 PM
https://ue4arch.com/product-category/complete-projects/archviz/

Goodbye offline renderers for viz work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=15&v=IZsiYRwSQms

samurai_x
10-16-2016, 09:04 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5G6wShJJo

gamedesign1
10-18-2016, 12:31 PM
Its just amazing how things are progressing

samurai_x
10-18-2016, 08:21 PM
I downloaded the starwars scene. Awesome fan art work!

samurai_x
10-19-2016, 09:02 PM
Interactive :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG4JFML6Z8E

vonpietro
10-19-2016, 11:12 PM
wow that star wars cantina is amazing - did you notice the ig88 heads as drinking dispensers!!

But thats about half of what i want. visually its good enough now- but the other half is AI, populated by creatures that i can converse with, interact with, full of stuff i can interact with - as it is with the exception of games like skyrim, alot of fps are just pretty to look at. Not to much that guy with the gun could do except shoot things - thats the old way - the shooter way... but today - people like myself want more interactivity, we want to manipulate stuff in the game... have an economy that we can buy and sell the junk we find. Thats why skyrim was so successful!! it has a sort of economy, and there is tons to pick up and grab - hoarders paradise. Seriously though - visually these worlds are amazing now - more than good enough for the casual gamer, but immersive they are not... interactive - not yet - although they could be - game companies just dont.

also does anyone know how to get an unreal object into ligthwave with textures intact.

i'd like to grab that dome shaped house for a gag i'm doing.
and the moister vaportor, although i think i may have one.

djwaterman
10-20-2016, 02:18 AM
Useful thread if we can add to it, I'd like to think that I might get into Unreal, these are good examples.

bazsa73
10-20-2016, 06:28 AM
I tested Unity recently but I can't get nice antialiased edges. This looks better.

MichaelT
10-20-2016, 07:00 AM
Here is a link to a collection of videos (most are UE4): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTb7k9pCQTo

Ztreem
10-20-2016, 07:58 AM
I tested Unity recently but I can't get nice antialiased edges. This looks better.

I don't see anything wrong with the antialiasing in this demo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXI0l3yqBrA

But as always it looks really nice and easy when you see this demo's but when you try to set up something like this yourself, it takes forever compared to just load the model in LW apply your preset material and render settings and hit render.

bazsa73
10-20-2016, 10:24 AM
I don't see anything wrong with the antialiasing in this demo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXI0l3yqBrA

But as always it looks really nice and easy when you see this demo's but when you try to set up something like this yourself, it takes forever compared to just load the model in LW apply your preset material and render settings and hit render.

So true.

samurai_x
10-20-2016, 09:24 PM
Unreal was much easier to learn than unity for me.

Many things are drag and drop. Once you have a library its very fast to create a scene.
Blueprint makes it so easy to add interactivity like changing colors, interactive doors, etc. Its nodal though so if you don't like nodes you won't like Unreal.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOzY1ZEXzfk

Downloadable scenes.
http://cgcloud.pro/#

samurai_x
10-20-2016, 10:34 PM
wow that star wars cantina is amazing - did you notice the ig88 heads as drinking dispensers!!

But thats about half of what i want. visually its good enough now- but the other half is AI, populated by creatures that i can converse with, interact with, full of stuff i can interact with - as it is with the exception of games like skyrim, alot of fps are just pretty to look at. Not to much that guy with the gun could do except shoot things - thats the old way - the shooter way... but today - people like myself want more interactivity, we want to manipulate stuff in the game... have an economy that we can buy and sell the junk we find. Thats why skyrim was so successful!! it has a sort of economy, and there is tons to pick up and grab - hoarders paradise. Seriously though - visually these worlds are amazing now - more than good enough for the casual gamer, but immersive they are not... interactive - not yet - although they could be - game companies just dont.

also does anyone know how to get an unreal object into ligthwave with textures intact.

i'd like to grab that dome shaped house for a gag i'm doing.
and the moister vaportor, although i think i may have one.

Ever heard of Shenmue? As boring as GTA.

Ernest
10-21-2016, 12:23 AM
http://www.hardocp.com/news/2016/10/20/nvidia_vrworks_for_unreal_engine_413_now_available _free_on_github#.WAmzTfkrJQI

And it looks like nVidia has just added VRWorks branches to UE4 on Github.

goakes
10-21-2016, 07:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjQbd5TQ9jc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DG51glKipU

samurai_x
10-22-2016, 12:24 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjQbd5TQ9jc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DG51glKipU

Haven't seen those yet. Thanks.
Are those Speedtree plants?
Unreal is unreal! One of two tools I'm so in love with together with Redshift.

samurai_x
10-22-2016, 09:08 PM
This is where I learned and dissected blueprint for viz work.


https://vimeo.com/139340912

samurai_x
10-22-2016, 09:12 PM
Achieving Better Rendering Quality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b8G8-PpOcs

djwaterman
10-23-2016, 03:57 AM
Hey samurai_x, what's the learning curve for getting up to speed in Unreal?

prometheus
10-23-2016, 05:03 PM
this is nice..30fps



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNSf8bF6LG8

samurai_x
10-23-2016, 10:14 PM
Hey samurai_x, what's the learning curve for getting up to speed in Unreal?

A day or two to get comfortable with the interface. Its very easy compared to unity imo. Tabs separate functions like modo or even layout and modeler.
The shading system is nodal and similar to lightwave. Just the names are different. Why can't devs agree on a universal term for some nodes?
Rendering is similar to any renderer that has lightcache like vray, mray, lw. Very easy.
Blueprint, which is visual programming in ue, to make interactive elements is really complex but if you're a node guru you can get. I only know the basics which is good enough for viz work. But some people were able to make games using only blueprint afaik.

djwaterman
10-24-2016, 12:15 AM
Thanks, I just downloaded it.

samurai_x
10-24-2016, 04:29 AM
Thanks, I just downloaded it.

There's some basic tutorials on evermotion youtube.
They already have 2 model libraries for UE.
They never published for octane renderer after this long, and only one library for lightwave.
UE is amazing I can't say it enough. Goodbye offline renderers for viz work.

Mclaren uses it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI-QCgBe0rs

prometheus
10-24-2016, 07:23 AM
Truesky for unreal looks impressive too, ofcourse adapted for game/vr but looks pretty nice considering, and in realtime with casting shadows ..moving clouds and godrays..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE6qFzJgED4

tyrot
10-24-2016, 03:31 PM
segi on unity ... very promising imho

samurai_x
10-24-2016, 07:44 PM
This one is crytek fan movie. Maybe convert to 24fps, anamorphic lense and more grading will give it that cinematic look. But I have no experience with crytek. Unity was just not so userfriendly. I'm all in for UE :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZc6cr6G2E4

tyrot
10-24-2016, 10:22 PM
Unity was not just so userfriendly ? ... oh boy... Listen how about trying to support a software without bashing another one :) Unity is insanely easy and that SEGI asset can be game changer.

samurai_x
10-24-2016, 11:00 PM
Its a forum. Don't be a crybaby.
You're welcome to use unity as you are welcome to use octane.
I'm free to say that for me unity was not as easy to learn and use so I dropped it, and octane is a turtle compared to redshift that's why I dropped octane. :D

UE is already a great tool for viz work and there are many big companies using it. Tons of training, and Evermotion showing interest for UE is huge!

m.d.
10-24-2016, 11:14 PM
I was making unreal levels way back in 2004 :)
Was in the states for a few months taking Maya course from Jason Busby and Zak Parrish who quite literally wrote the manual on unreal editor back in the day, and we delved in pretty deep.

The editor is much nicer now....used to be a little more complicated back in the day. The whole subtractive vs additive nature of the 3d space was the biggest mind hurdle. I got into Unity a bit for its multi app publishing capabilities back a few years ago, and I had several clients want 3d on ipads for presentation...but I've always liked Unreal.

Cryengine may have an edge in some areas graphically, but there always seems to be a hassle with animated characters in it.

bazsa73
10-25-2016, 02:51 AM
Unity is great for indie game developement, I love c#, it is easy to use imo though the asset handling is a bit cumbersome, I can't always tell which shader belongs to a mesh, and its AA capabilities cannot be compared to unreal.
I just tested thoroughly Unity for archviz and I gave up then I downloaded Unreal and I could set up succesfully a flickerless archviz scene in 3 days without bigger fuss. So each tool is great for what it is meant for.

samurai_x
10-25-2016, 03:19 AM
Unity is great for indie game developement, I love c#, it is easy to use imo though the asset handling is a bit cumbersome, I can't always tell which shader belongs to a mesh, and its AA capabilities cannot be compared to unreal.
I just tested thoroughly Unity for archviz and I gave up then I downloaded Unreal and I could set up succesfully a flickerless archviz scene in 3 days without bigger fuss. So each tool is great for what it is meant for.

That's exactly my experience. We used unity for AR appz. I didn't like it at all but had to use it. It feels geared towards dev types. So it fits game/app development quite well.
When I learned UE it was like using a dcc app. So much more fun. And produces results extremely fast for viz work with Matinee to make movies.

Danner
10-25-2016, 04:27 AM
I disagree about Unity being difficult, otherwise I agree with sammurai x. Unreal looks great, but Unity is great for quick prototyping and it worked better with VR, all Unreal titles for the Vive run like crap. (this might change with Unreal's latest patch tho) The amount of tutorials and assets (free and paid) is much larger in Unity. For archviz Unreal is better, Even if they have managed to make Unity look amazing for shorts like Adam it's not that easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXI0l3yqBrA

tyrot
10-25-2016, 05:42 AM
stop calling name. you are writing posts with total kiddo way. .. do you have redshift for lightwave now.. no. so stop it. unity is easiest engine out there. if you leave it because it was hard.. oh boy. how can you use lightwave it is a mystery..

Asticles
10-25-2016, 05:58 AM
samurai_x

What do you think is the speed of setting the scene compared to Lw?

Two scenarios:

1) Have to prepare objects from some manufacturers to be included in the renders (for example chairs that barely have only an obj without materials and high poly meshes very unclean).
2) The client makes some changes in the walls so all the illumination of the scene has to be recalculated. In this case, what amount of rebaking from the 3d package is needed?

Thanks

samurai_x
10-25-2016, 10:13 AM
stop calling name. you are writing posts with total kiddo way. .. do you have redshift for lightwave now.. no. so stop it. unity is easiest engine out there. if you leave it because it was hard.. oh boy. how can you use lightwave it is a mystery..

Yawn.... Just like the redshift thread, if you're using something else that's fine. You're welcome to use it. Now let us redshift and unreal folks use the faster solution. :D



samurai_x

What do you think is the speed of setting the scene compared to Lw?

Two scenarios:

1) Have to prepare objects from some manufacturers to be included in the renders (for example chairs that barely have only an obj without materials and high poly meshes very unclean).
2) The client makes some changes in the walls so all the illumination of the scene has to be recalculated. In this case, what amount of rebaking from the 3d package is needed?

Thanks

Its fast. Treat UE as layout. UE interface is very easy to understand and more like typical dcc app for me. Fbx is just easier to work with.
You need a second channel for lightmaps but they don't have to be created manually. Atlas mapping will do fine. Just adjust the size in UE for the lightmap per mesh if needed so you don't get splotchy shadows.
You don't really need to rebake if you only change colors or textures.
If you already have base master materials you can clone them easily and just drag and drop to objects, think Sensei's global materials + 3dmax material instancing.

With modo 10 I think it can even be faster because there's a game engine exporter and unreal shader xml support.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YXH0SrMW8Y
I need to try it but I'm too busy atm.

I only recommend using UE for vizwork if you want to do more than just boring stills. If its just rendering stills then native renderer will be faster. Clients are just asking for more interactive and iterative presentations nowadays and nothing beats UE.

VonBon
10-25-2016, 11:50 AM
Um Uh, Unreal is better than Unity.

Asticles
10-25-2016, 12:21 PM
Thanks for your answer, samurai_x. I recently bought a modo license and I'm still learning the basics xD.

As I've seen, modo is by far slower than LW with NPR, but in LW you have to enable or tweak manually each object edges' rendering; something that in modo is faster with the material groups.

hrgiger
10-25-2016, 01:36 PM
Great news for those of us who use Unreal.

https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/simplygon-introduces-free-indie-license-and-ships-with-ue4-installer

samurai_x
12-07-2016, 09:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gut5ermayK4

Procedural

samurai_x
01-04-2017, 11:49 PM
https://www.allegorithmic.com/blog/substance-art-ue4arch


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxdp0icxcC0

samurai_x
01-05-2017, 06:57 AM
Evermotion expanding their Unreal library.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W98zn7JxU8o

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/profile/Evermotion

For Unity, not in the nearest future.

MichaelT
01-05-2017, 09:37 AM
:) UE4 is miles easier than Unity. I use both (and Cryengine) the order when it comes to ease of use is: UE4, Unity, ..., Cryengine. The '...' means there are a lot of engines out there easier than Cryengine. But on the other hand, Cryengine is now free.. source code and all (not open source) with no secret tags to pay money at a certain level etc.. So for the financially challenged the engine of choice is easy. Next up from that would be Lumbreyard.. but that one does have some pitfalls in it. At any rate.. my personal choice is UE4. The speed of which you can get something fully functional up and running is for me the winning point.

I think the level of realism you can reach in UE4, is excellent. But that doesn't mean it is what people should strive for. Many times, I have seen (in my case) games that would be much better served having a stylized theme instead.

prometheus
01-05-2017, 09:56 AM
really amazing real time stuff, though it uses all ready made assets, but the way you design the landscape in realtime and also lighting...though it may not hold up for close up realism renders....

quite a different from trying to build this in lightwave...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkypCxc2Mzg

MichaelT
01-05-2017, 10:54 AM
really amazing real time stuff, though it uses all ready made assets, but the way you design the landscape in realtime and also lighting...though it may not hold up for close up realism renders....

quite a different from trying to build this in lightwave...

...

:) Nice.. but I think it is important to mention they (the makers of this UE4 tool) also have this tool available for Unity.

- - - Updated - - -


...

Procedural

This tool is incredibly expensive on resources. It's a nice tool, but is not as good for games.

Asticles
01-05-2017, 12:20 PM
samurai_x

I'm about to finish my first project on UE4 for architecture, and by now I've seen some pros and cons that would like to speak of. From a beginner user's view (important).

First of all, the workflow is by far slower than render directly on a software like lightwave; but the render is blazing fast. A good option if you are happy with the render quality, which is lower than traditional render, of course.

Rendering and working with dynamic lights is really comfortable, but lighting with lightmass is really slow if you don't have a renderfarm for the calculation. Although I didn't find how to calculate only the lightmass of the changed objects. Maybe this is not possible.

Of course my lack of knowledge of unreal engine plays a major role. Besides that, I lowered the quality of the light maps to 64, the quality on world settings and removed trees from lightning. I will test further because surely the problem is on my side.

Atmospheric and camera effects are GREAT, like the DOF, which you can see in realtime. Also the mist has been really incredible for my project, because on the distance the terrain dissapears on the hdr dome, so the mist made possible to join sky with terrain seamlessly.

The nodal shader is incredible, but there are too many nodes so there is so much to learn there.

The cinematic tool is really easy to work with. I set a lot of cameras and made a sequence with each one showing 1 second, so I got images from 12 cameras sequentially. 1 second because when changing the camera my graphic card needs some time to show all the features.

The worst thing has been to create the lowpoly models, it has a lot of steps and need so much work. Also, the lightmass, which for me has been unusuable.

-----

Talking about that, there are no many tutorials about Lightwave and Unreal or Unity. Specially of the entire process of asset creation.

I think LW3DG has the oportunity to improve asset creation. I'm trying to introduce lightwave inside the workflow but without success. I've done everything with blender because baking from highpoly to lowpoly is really easy. In Lightwave I've followed the tutorial from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWBCfoc8u1I and I would like to know if there is a better or faster way to bake without having to change ambient, lightning, visibility and adding special nodes.

I've used also xnormal, which is a great tool, but with meshes with multiple maps I had to separate the mesh before baking. So the process became uneasy.

Do you know any workflow with lightwave for asset creation and baking?

Regards!

prometheus
01-05-2017, 02:39 PM
samurai_x



Atmospheric and camera effects are GREAT, like the DOF, which you can see in realtime. Also the mist has been really incredible for my project, because on the distance the terrain dissapears on the hdr dome, so the mist made possible to join sky with terrain seamlessly.

!

something I miss and would like to see in future lightwave, better fog mist realisticly, instead I get folks telling me, donīt excpect fog or never render fog straight out of lightwave render, do it in pass.
That is one way to go of course, and offers control over fog later in post, but you exclude the full realism and also fog and mist interactivity with the real scene by doing so, that is why the atmospherics (true atmospherics) are so cool for realistic renders in vue and terragen, though you may say that itīs different approaches where you would increase render time and bound yourself to render farms by employing real atmospherics.

I used to check use background with lw fog and sk_sunsky, that however is a post process impose overlay whith the results of a clipping in the sunsky that isnīt realistic, I later have used the color texture fog with sunsky procedural on instead wich seems to work better.

Asticles
01-06-2017, 04:16 AM
Lightwave must honour his name. Let's see how will volumetrics be on lw 2017.In unreal I liked very much the sun glare and dynamic exposure. Also by default the clouds are moving. I won't regret if lightwave gets Vue's atmospheric quality. ;)

jwiede
01-06-2017, 06:30 AM
I won't regret if lightwave gets Vue's atmospheric quality. ;)

I think it is unreasonable to expect Lightwave's renderer to equal the quality of render engines and shading systems specifically and extensively tuned for extreme atmospheric realism (such as Vue's or Terragen's).

I'd just be quite happy if Lightwave's environmental and atmospheric support were competitive with native solutions in the other major general-purpose 3D packages (LW's native functionality is currently quite dismal by comparison). DP's Sunsky pkg makes up for much of LW's native lacks, but IMO this is a too-commonly-used 3D functional area for LW to be so dependent on a third-party plugin.

LW desperately needs modern, native sun and sky models, and atmospheric shading/turbidity effects.

creacon
01-06-2017, 06:45 AM
native solutions in the other major general-purpose 3D packages

What are you talking about? The Maya native render? Houdini Mantra? C4D?

creacon

jwiede
01-06-2017, 11:27 AM
native solutions in the other major general-purpose 3D packages

What are you talking about? The Maya native render? Houdini Mantra? C4D?

C4D and MODO both have decent physical sky and sun support with native renderers. Max and Maya included MR before (mia_physicalsky, mia_physicalsun), and Arnold has OOB equivalents as well. On the external-only renderers, Vray, Octane, Thea, Redshift, Cycles, Arion, Corona, and Maxwell all support native OOB physical sun and sky models significantly better than LW's native OOB. Is that enough examples?

I haven't rendered much with Houdini's Mantra (I've had Houdini for a long time, just never render in it), so can't speak to its level of support. If Mantra lacks physical sky/sun support, I guess its in the same boat as LW (or slightly worse if it has no such support at all), but that would definitely make it another oddity (with LW) compared to the long list of other render engines which include modern, direct, decent support OOB/native.

This shouldn't be "news" to anyone, LW's SkyTracer2 was aging poorly ten years ago, and that situation hasn't improved with additional time.

prometheus
01-06-2017, 12:28 PM
I think it is unreasonable to expect Lightwave's renderer to equal the quality of render engines and shading systems specifically and extensively tuned for extreme atmospheric realism (such as Vue's or Terragen's).

I'd just be quite happy if Lightwave's environmental and atmospheric support were competitive with native solutions in the other major general-purpose 3D packages (LW's native functionality is currently quite dismal by comparison). DP's Sunsky pkg makes up for much of LW's native lacks, but IMO this is a too-commonly-used 3D functional area for LW to be so dependent on a third-party plugin.

LW desperately needs modern, native sun and sky models, and atmospheric shading/turbidity effects.

Not sure about that, I think they should have started to work on that ages ago, it may be unreasonable in the sense that they today are probably occupied with other more urgent tasks, and that they simply may not have the resources in terms of manpower and skilled ones to work on it, but I suspect that nothing in the lw core is preventing it.

I recall ogo taiki being fully volumetric with godrays and volumetric clouds long before even vue had it, but since vue developers only had one goal, making landscape and with that skies, they put aside resources to develop that while the lightwave developers had to wrestle with a lot lot more.

One question from me ..out in the void like that would be, is it possible they can focus and catch up in one area regarding landscapes and set exteriors outside a room?
I mean, can they introduce firstly a competitive handling of displacements and high poly mesh?
Can they match the micropolygon rendering of terragen?
Can they match infinite fractal terrains?
Can they match landscape texturing to have complex layering with easy to set altitude parameters as vue has.
Can they match painting in a landscape with a brush?
Can they match erosions like vue?


All that they seem to lack behind as well, apart from the whole volumetric stuff, not even with the new volumetrics I would believe we can see something that can deliver larger skyscapes, so where do they start, or should they simply give up and say..meh..let us do room renders or something, maybe a space render without clouds or air.

Some folks here say, do not expect ..or I donīt think it shoud compete with the landscape specialized software....I would argue why not and say they are pretty much s..ewed up if they donīt.
Itīs just that volumetric atmosphere and a cloud model of infinite procedural volumetric clouds hasnīt been on the agenda for the lw team, for either lack of time or lack of skilled personal to handle it, itīs not impossible to acheive and how many havenīt been requested a better model for this?

Well..the main volumetrics will get an overhaul, but itīs not the same as investing in a proper sky volumeric spectral model.
Skytracer...horrible, if itīs something I can do without..it is that.

First things first though..and agree with you I can ..that we could use a better simpler sky model first, but they should aim higher than that if they want us to deliver ever better stuff and competitive stuff against vue and terragen ..or we will see a constant decline of landscape scenery renders to add to the already lacking ones in the gallery.

will see.

creacon
01-06-2017, 12:49 PM
So you talk about native solutions, you name 2 (Modo and C4D), one of those I can tell you that it's no better or worse than what's in LW.
then 2 that were included in the past in Max and Maya (don't get me started on MR). and then a long list of non native renders.

You really should consider a career in politics ;-)

And to the OP, sorry for hijacking your thread.

creacon


C4D and MODO both have decent physical sky and sun support with native renderers. Max and Maya included MR before (mia_physicalsky, mia_physicalsun), and Arnold has OOB equivalents as well. On the external-only renderers, Vray, Octane, Thea, Redshift, Cycles, Arion, Corona, and Maxwell all support native OOB physical sun and sky models significantly better than LW's native OOB. Is that enough examples?

prometheus
01-06-2017, 01:50 PM
Some of the issues I have with sunsky..which otherwise is quite nice, that is he ever remaining issue of fog atmospheric and blending with foregroun in to the sky, unless checking use backdrop color..you will never get a nice blend, but if you do you will always have the backdrop leaving sharp edges on terrain..and if you are having an active sundisc in sunsky, that will also impose over the terrain so the sun will be in front of the terrain..and not obscured by it, that is the nature of using backdrop color checked with fog, it is a postprocess overlay that isnīt volumetric, if sunsky would be able to apply in the volumetric tab, that would maybe have been better for such cases, I have tried all kinds of tricks trying to get a decent Out of the lightwave viewport render..but it wont really work.

You also have the sunsky atmosphere which seems to be some kind of hack to add glare and atmospheric, it will however not solve this issue of getting fog and a blend out in distance..it will only help add a bit more realism to air scattering with sunsky and glare, but not much for the fog blend.

It may be that you should for best result discard the native lw fog and Only use the volumetric sk_sunsky, that will resolve the issue of the sundisc imposed over any items which will happen if you check use backdrop color, and just do as much as you can do with the volumetric_sunsky for the glare and light, Haze distance to simulate fog..though it really isnīt fog.

Another trick is to add a full volumetric item with a voxel large enough to cover the scene, that will yield volumetric light rays cast from objects etch, but as soon as you add any other volumetric clouds ..it would be freezing the system to a halt.

Donīt tell me to do it in post, I canīt tweak any atmosphere like that with decent Instant feedback as you can with vue or terragen, sure it may work for some folks but that is not how I want it.

prometheus
01-06-2017, 02:16 PM
Another thing with sunsky that annoys the hell out of me, it is the xpanels can not handle the UI properly, so every once a while when double clicking to enter sunsky module windows, it cuts the UI in half when trying maintain in native lw drop down windows so I do not get acess to all the parameters, the only thing I can do then is to close the effects panel the open it again, and then sunsky opens in itīs own window properly.

I think Denis told me he couldnīt do much about that because of the xpanels of lightwave..but that isnīt very satisfying.

jwiede
01-06-2017, 03:05 PM
Well..the main volumetrics will get an overhaul, but itīs not the same as investing in a proper sky volumeric spectral model.
Skytracer...horrible, if itīs something I can do without..it is that.

First things first though..and agree with you I can ..that we could use a better simpler sky model first, but they should aim higher than that if they want us to deliver ever better stuff and competitive stuff against vue and terragen ..or we will see a constant decline of landscape scenery renders to add to the already lacking ones in the gallery.

We both agree SkyTracer/SkyTracer2 is unacceptable. If they want to go further, that's absolutely fine, and I agree they probably do need to go further overall to compete. Regardless, LW3DG minimally developing a decent, modern baseline sky model for OOB LW.Next is essential, IMO. There's no guarantee DP's Sunsky will be updated for LW.Next (nor for both Windows & Mac). Lacking either, LW.Next would otherwise be stuck relying on SkyTracer/SkyTracer2, and that's a bad situation at best.

prometheus
01-06-2017, 04:01 PM
We both agree SkyTracer/SkyTracer2 is unacceptable. If they want to go further, that's absolutely fine, and I agree they probably do need to go further overall to compete. Regardless, LW3DG minimally developing a decent, modern baseline sky model for OOB LW.Next is essential, IMO. There's no guarantee DP's Sunsky will be updated for LW.Next (nor for both Windows & Mac). Lacking either, LW.Next would otherwise be stuck relying on SkyTracer/SkyTracer2, and that's a bad situation at best.


First...sorry for the slightly off topic here from unreal..

I agree completly, even though Denis has made a decent job with it, a thing like a sky model is in my opinion a tool that really needs to be worked on Natively, and just getting a slightly better sky model which also may work nicely with some fog in distant would be great...until they start working on a new skytracer/ogo taiki style of real volumetrics.

I am curiuos to why the preetham model actually does this correct it seemsīat least much better than hosek wilkies, when checking use backdrop color when using sunsky as color of fog, this allows the fog color to respond more naturally in relation to how the sun is located and it also fades/blends all terrain in disance nicely out in the fog, you would need to uncheck the sundisc though so it doesnt impose over the terrain, and instead use a secondary item ..a lensflare with sk sun motion to match the sun.

The hosek wilkies is more realistic otherwise, so itīs a bit of a shame we do not have any good method for this, Denis did in fact upon my request worked out a better blending method called mirror just because of this, but merely experimental an not a full solution


Preetham with the better backdrop fog blending...


http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135506&d=1483743432


hosek wilkie with to hard blending..

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135507&d=1483743557

gerry_g
01-06-2017, 05:26 PM
what I want is good ground/distant fog that can be manipulated with a ramp so as not to obliterate an HDR BG plate, something that works pretty much the way ground fog worked in Ozone but with none of the grief of running such a crappy plugin, hypervoxels are all well and good but they take half of all eternity to pre-vis let alone render. I think Sunsky is best left as it is

prometheus
01-06-2017, 08:09 PM
what I want is good ground/distant fog that can be manipulated with a ramp so as not to obliterate an HDR BG plate, something that works pretty much the way ground fog worked in Ozone but with none of the grief of running such a crappy plugin, hypervoxels are all well and good but they take half of all eternity to pre-vis let alone render. I think Sunsky is best left as it is

Hdr images in lightprobes isnīt obliterated by native lw fog.
Tricky one, if you apply hdr image probe, that would be a backdrop and to get fog in front you would need to check use background color in composit tab (not backdrop color in fog tab) otherwise the fog wouldnīt even affect the hdr image ..only the objects, but with that comes that the background image is obliiterated, since it drops the color over the backdrop hdr when checked...so maybe setting up a dome object with the same hdr image, tricky part would be to match the hdr and rotation etc with the dome image, not sure if sibl would be possible to use instead..long time since I tested that, and I really donīt use HDR images in my environment experiments.

what I often do is to use two dome spheres, one with a spherical sky cloud image, with 100% luminosity, and then save out exactly that one also as a renamed version called dome transparent, then load that back and copy the image to the transparent channel and invert it, this dome needs to be unseen by camera but will cast cloud shadows based on the cloud image trans map.
the first color dome that is visible should however have itīs cast shadows unchecked, since that dome is only to show the sky and clouds but not cast shadow..the raycasting of shadows from the clouds is done by the transparent dome.

this way I can avoid any issues with fog as well really, since it will not depend on any backdrop image ..but a try spherical dome that fades in distance...and how the fog fades in distance is usually easy to set with min max distance.
With this comes dramatic shadows to enhance the outdoor scenes as it does pretty close to real life ..and if I add a voxel item with unchecked volumetric shadows and unchecked textured shadows and have it large enough to cover the scene..but with a near clip distance set big enough to cut the rays in front of camera...it will be renderable and I will get godrays from the sunlight shining through the transparent dome...sometime I get this to work nicely in speed depending on scene, sometimes not...this is also only decently doable with latest 2015 version, if you apply that hv fog null item that is.

I had a thread about this, though it vanished after the big forum crash.

Michael

jwiede
01-06-2017, 10:32 PM
I had a thread about this, though it vanished after the big forum crash.

Yep, I remember that thread.

Interesting approach above, btw, but yeesh! So many workarounds / needless replications, and then HV's (even baked) on top of that. I suppose the HV's aren't necessarily any worse than a single volumetric medium in render cost, but setup is probably more complex there too.

gerry_g
01-07-2017, 03:47 AM
yeah mislead you, I do use ground fog with HDR and yes it does not obliterate BG, what I meant to say more precisely was that I want an distance haze with adjustable hight to compensate for the shortcomings of ground fog, ordinary fog is useless for this even in realistic mode, ground fog works great if my scene is at 1/10 real world scale but if I work real size and with a hypothetical horizon line that is a few kilometres away it works very badly. As to the domes with alpha transparency and clouds, Brice did that twenty years ago, one of the first things I ever tried way back in LW 7.5b was to emulate that, which didn't work because there was a bug in the alpha channel that excluded all colour information and wasn't fixed till 8.

prometheus
01-07-2017, 07:23 AM
yeah mislead you, I do use ground fog with HDR and yes it does not obliterate BG, what I meant to say more precisely was that I want an distance haze with adjustable hight to compensate for the shortcomings of ground fog, ordinary fog is useless for this even in realistic mode, ground fog works great if my scene is at 1/10 real world scale but if I work real size and with a hypothetical horizon line that is a few kilometres away it works very badly. As to the domes with alpha transparency and clouds, Brice did that twenty years ago, one of the first things I ever tried way back in LW 7.5b was to emulate that, which didn't work because there was a bug in the alpha channel that excluded all colour information and wasn't fixed till 8.

I Got you...
you may get some control if you use the fog texture and add a y distance to object gradient, that allows for a control of fog height, but it will still lack the feature of fading out terrain in distance.

there is also the way of adding the sunsky atmosphere in the volumetric tab, which you can set haze viewing angle and distance multiplier, light scattering, that may help add haze and glow to the scene in distance, but it is still not properly obscuring landscape in distance.

this sunsky atmosphere in the volumetrics tab also helps punch depth realism and air scattering in anotherwise bit of flat sunsky, problems with it is that depending on sun angle it goes away sometimes, and that is not what you want if you need ground fog, and it doesnīt have a color channel to react to the change of the pitch of the sun, so itīs all white and not picking up color decay.

prometheus
01-07-2017, 07:33 AM
Yep, I remember that thread.

Interesting approach above, btw, but yeesh! So many workarounds / needless replications, and then HV's (even baked) on top of that. I suppose the HV's aren't necessarily any worse than a single volumetric medium in render cost, but setup is probably more complex there too.

yep..a bit of work, but the hvīs is only one single null with a voxel large enough to cover the scene, then itīs not that complex to set it right in terms of voxel settings, more about placing it right and perhaps getting a good ratio of near clip distance so it renders faster versus not clipping to much where you wont see the effect...
this volue item can probably with advantage be better used for distance fog than to use it for godrays, and...do not try to use anything else like more hypervoxels on clouds, that would halt the system, and I would recommend not using anything else than lw 2015 and use the standard distant light or dome light with low angle, the sk_sunlight works...but it adds dramaticly to rendertime compared to the other lights when used with this volumetric item.

lousy cloud image and crappy objects here, could do better of course, but it was mostly testing, and this one isnīt correct either since I think I used a cloud plane here and not two domes for mixing the sky and the raycasting of shadows, but it is similar..too much opacity in the hv fog item and some other artifacts and errors.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gJlx-3_Ng3l8tl91Q9rW6ISCsIBxhFiT7igDLrq6IpH__o0FxKWleqO BlDmc9Slyl_kj_oGF-ERtQ=w1920-h1200-no

jwiede
01-07-2017, 02:30 PM
lousy cloud image and crappy objects here, could do better of course, but it was mostly testing, and this one isnīt correct either since I think I used a cloud plane here and not two domes for mixing the sky and the raycasting of shadows, but it is similar..too much opacity in the hv fog item and some other artifacts and errors.

What kind of render time (and at what rendered dimensions) did that require? Any idea what the same shot would be for everything except HV's?

Asticles
01-07-2017, 04:27 PM
This is the unreal thread. Make another thread for this. Please :)

prometheus
01-07-2017, 05:27 PM
What kind of render time (and at what rendered dimensions) did that require? Any idea what the same shot would be for everything except HV's?

Check this newly created thread...
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?152475-Volumetric-tricks-for-atmosphere-and-working-with-sk_sunsky&p=1494349#post1494349

samurai_x
01-31-2017, 07:42 AM
Evermotion is on a roll with Unreal


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7z6rRPq1Ts

Unreal will have the 2nd biggest archiviz library after max. :dance:

Asticles
02-05-2017, 11:46 AM
samurai_x have you tested godot engine for this?

samurai_x
03-05-2017, 06:30 AM
samurai_x have you tested godot engine for this?

Never heard of godot. Googling.


Why Two Disney Films Rendered Scenes In Unreal Engine 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6tRt7c2elU
http://www.polygon.com/2017/3/1/14777806/gdc-epic-rogue-one-star-wars-k2so
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/1631230/why-two-disney-films-rendered-scenes-in-unreal-engine-4

Time to move to real time rendering :D

Asticles
03-05-2017, 08:32 AM
I would like to work with LW and unreal, but the extra steps of baking and exporting takes me so much time for all the changes I must do before delivery.
We need a better integration with unreal and unity and of course with substance. A one click solution like goz would be very valuable.

A pitty that cryengine does not permit architecture rendering in his license. Because I like very much the real-time radiosity.

Danner
03-05-2017, 11:37 AM
You can integrage Lightwave and unity, check the manual. It auto updates the changes you make in your lightwave scene. It requieres a few setup steps so I usually just export to Unity and replace the fbx when needed.
Octane is supposedly being incorporated into Unity free.. now that will be interesting.

Asticles
03-05-2017, 04:45 PM
This is really interesting! Is this possible with unreal? I work with it because it's free for architecture.

MichaelT
03-05-2017, 06:14 PM
For those of you working with Architecture, here is a small taste of what UE4 can do.

http://www.benoitdereau.com
https://www.youtube.com/user/koooolalala

CaptainMarlowe
03-06-2017, 11:01 PM
I started to mess with Unreal Engine. At first it was to test the import of my models with PBR maps. Then for rendering stills of these models, but, yeah, the sequencer has a lot of very interesting options for real time animations rendering. I'll definitely consider this renderer for certain types of animations in the future. It can even export different passes for compositing. That's just great.

samurai_x
03-07-2017, 01:25 AM
Unreal for mograph, spinning logos.
https://www.lynda.com/Unreal-Engine-tutorials/Welcome/439682/489590-4.html

samurai_x
03-08-2017, 04:19 AM
https://vimeo.com/206263410

lighting, rendering, effects in unreal.

samurai_x
03-08-2017, 04:24 AM
The Mill - The future of film is realtime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nWQ96ydO-I

Asticles
03-08-2017, 06:07 AM
Likewise, as the engines of the viewers of the programs will improve, we will be able to perform these types of animations without rendering. For example, the idea in Blender is to have a viewport with pbr and other new features:

https://code.blender.org/2016/09/blender-2-8-viewport-development/

In Modo there is the Advanced viewport. What happens is that obviously the quality of unreal is very high, but it will not be long before we can do it from the 3d program itself. IMHO.

djwaterman
03-08-2017, 08:19 AM
It's okay guys, I've programmed the T1 to go back in time and blow up the code team at The Mill, the future of traditional CGI is safe.

samurai_x
03-08-2017, 09:54 PM
I sent John Connor to stop the T1. Lol!

Why render with gpu renderers(even Redshift the fastest gpu renderer on earth) 60 sec/frame when you can render 1 sec/frame with Unreal. If its good enough for ILM its more than good enough for most. :D

samurai_x
03-08-2017, 11:22 PM
Framestore

Field Trip to Mars powered by Unreal pbr engine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0XNlsXnKp0

Want those bus windows for my car :D

MichaelT
03-09-2017, 02:15 AM
I sent John Connor to stop the T1. Lol!

Why render with gpu renderers(even Redshift the fastest gpu renderer on earth) 60 sec/frame when you can render 1 sec/frame with Unreal. If its good enough for ILM its more than good enough for most. :D

Not to be too technical, but UE4 is realtime. It is usually around 170 frames/second for a decently setup scene. I've rarely seen anything below 40 frames/second :) But it depends on your rig of course :)

MichaelT
03-09-2017, 02:20 AM
samurai_x have you tested godot engine for this?

Godot can't do UE4 rendering. Godot is for much simpler games.

Jake
03-09-2017, 08:08 AM
Hey guys,
Since this thread is about UE4 maybe somebody can answer my tangential question. I'm interested in modding Street Fighter V characters with Lightwave, but I've read that UE4 requires fbx2014. I'm still using Lightwave 11.6 which seems to go up to fbx 2012. Is there a workaround for this, short of upgrading to the newer version of Lightwave? I can't see spending the cost of the upgrade just for a file export option, especially when a newer version of Lightwave might come out soonish (maybe).

samurai_x
03-10-2017, 11:00 PM
Hey guys,
Since this thread is about UE4 maybe somebody can answer my tangential question. I'm interested in modding Street Fighter V characters with Lightwave, but I've read that UE4 requires fbx2014. I'm still using Lightwave 11.6 which seems to go up to fbx 2012. Is there a workaround for this, short of upgrading to the newer version of Lightwave? I can't see spending the cost of the upgrade just for a file export option, especially when a newer version of Lightwave might come out soonish (maybe).

Lightwave 11 and UE4 works ok. You just have to export from layout using the fbx exporter with embedded media. If you export rigged characters make sure the animation is baked to the rig and every bone is assigned its own weightmap so they deform correctly in UE.
For autoweights try 3rdpowers weightpainting with its heatbind feature.
I'm going to try it soon and see if the weights are also normalized.

Asticles
03-11-2017, 02:44 AM
Do you make the texture baking in LW?

Danner
03-11-2017, 04:46 AM
You weren't asking me, but I do because I like to have complete control of the baking process, and I'm more familiar of how it works in LW.

Asticles
03-11-2017, 04:52 AM
I haven't found some good tutorials, I think the process is a bit tedious. Can you give me some clues of it? I'm currently doing it with modo (have a good tutorial of some pages) and blender (but makes corners white). In the two had to work with Xnormal.

Jake
03-11-2017, 07:16 AM
Lightwave 11 and UE4 works ok. You just have to export from layout using the fbx exporter with embedded media. If you export rigged characters make sure the animation is baked to the rig and every bone is assigned its own weightmap so they deform correctly in UE.
For autoweights try 3rdpowers weightpainting with its heatbind feature.
I'm going to try it soon and see if the weights are also normalized.

Thanks man, I'll give it a shot.

ianr
03-11-2017, 08:13 AM
I Agree with SAM o'RAI

Why chew up the carpet about Houdini's This & That!

Unreals R & D is gaga & the one we want to kidnap

in the nicest possible way.

I cite Flex Soft-body Muscle Rigs being dev'ed in Unreal

that would make a big lift up for LW app. (hint Mr.Hurley)

Asticles
03-11-2017, 04:40 PM
Look, with cryengine.

http://preview.thelordinquisitor.com/

samurai_x
03-11-2017, 07:39 PM
Do you make the texture baking in LW?

3dcoat for baking.

samurai_x
03-14-2017, 08:51 AM
Unreal autorigger and character animation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r40PJ6r_P4c

gamedesign1
03-14-2017, 09:36 AM
I would love to be able to output layers like depth, alpha, objectIDs, etc for post work :)

samurai_x
03-20-2017, 09:21 PM
I would love to be able to output layers like depth, alpha, objectIDs, etc for post work :)

You mean this?
https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Sequencer/Workflow/CustomRenderPass/



Dynamic in game environment.


https://vimeo.com/172024246

samurai_x
11-02-2017, 06:09 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6GVecXTuqk

vray who?