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Julez4001
10-15-2016, 07:54 AM
Hello fellow wavers,
I have a bit of a problem. I am trying to animated destruction on a decimated column.

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I have a null going up a column triggering the DP partsMove on rotation so I got the first half of the idea done but
now I want the pieces to spread out in a blast radius type of movement. The move just pushes the entire column move by 1 m so its not an option.

I also would to be able to control radius falloff.

I attached a few pictures to describe what I am doing.

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Julez4001
10-15-2016, 09:03 AM
134800

This is the effect going for

bazsa73
10-15-2016, 09:10 AM
You have to use the Curve node (it's under Gradient in the node editor) and animate e.g. the Alpha channel.

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With this setup you don't need to use nulls because the curve handles the amount of effect.
The horizontal axis represents the coordinate axis in 3D, in my case the X axis while the vertical the amount of the effect.
So if you animate this curve in the editor only horizontally to the right, the explosion effect goes through the geometry.

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bazsa73
10-15-2016, 09:17 AM
Example scene here. Play with the curve node keys in the graph editor. The curve editor is not very intuitive because it behaves in a different way than the original graph editor.

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Continuum
10-15-2016, 10:59 AM
Just curious, wouldn't this be easier with dynamics. Or is there an advantage of doing it this way?

I only ask as a curious observer.

erikals
10-15-2016, 11:12 AM
there are two things

-'manual' way gives much more control
-it requires no calculation

a downside -can- be that it looks less,... dynamic.

jeric_synergy
10-15-2016, 12:08 PM
Wouldn't the proper workflow be to get this as close to good as possible, then tweek the result in Chronosculpt?

I mean, CS is free for 2015 owners.

darkChief
10-15-2016, 12:15 PM
Interesting...

Continuum
10-15-2016, 12:18 PM
okay, thanks for sharing

Julez4001
10-15-2016, 01:45 PM
Just curious, wouldn't this be easier with dynamics. Or is there an advantage of doing it this way?

I only ask as a curious observer.

I am working on an anime and I really need artistic control with a hint of real world dynamic-ism.





Wouldn't the proper workflow be to get this as close to good as possible, then tweek the result in Chronosculpt?

I mean, CS is free for 2015 owners.


I always thought of that as a way to make us complacent since LW NEXT will be more than a year out.



Bazsa, that sample scene was just what I needed. Not perfect but I can edit it to what I need it for.

THANK YOU and yes the curve node is hard as hell to control.

erikals
10-15-2016, 01:49 PM
@ jeric_synergy

Chronosculpt would work, but it couldn't maintain the volume of individual pieces, like for example DP PartMove.

jeric_synergy
10-15-2016, 01:51 PM
Like I said, make a one-two punch: some dynamics, some Chronosculpt.

There's a tendency among LW animators to A) try to do everything from one camera and B) get wedded to one methodology, in this case "100% dynamics".

Julez4001
10-15-2016, 02:20 PM
Like I said, make a one-two punch: some dynamics, some Chronosculpt.

There's a tendency among LW animators to A) try to do everything from one camera and B) get wedded to one methodology, in this case "100% dynamics".

That's not how this is going to work, if anything it will be a two camera shots sequence and this is nodal work and not dynamics.



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Continuum
10-15-2016, 02:54 PM
That makes sense, thanks for explaining.

Julez4001
10-16-2016, 12:13 AM
Nodally, has anyone used a gradient to show part of a morph?


Never mind --got it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZJcvrJd7qM

Good ol' William Vaugh!

jeric_synergy
10-16-2016, 12:27 AM
Sure -- like w/proximity to a null?

bazsa73
10-16-2016, 01:04 AM
and yes the curve node is hard as hell to control.
Isn't it so? This is one powerful node on steroids and if it could be controlled by let's say nulls in a C4D-ish manner our lives would be easier.

Julez4001
10-16-2016, 01:07 AM
Okay, its working but for some reason, the object reacts as if the morph amount compared to the null's located is always at a minimum of 5 % versus 0%
In other words, you can always see the object pre-cracked regardless of where the null is located.
Is there a way to clamped the minimum down to 0%

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jeric_synergy
10-16-2016, 01:14 AM
re: Curve Node

It also annoying looks enough like the GE to make one expect it to work like the GE, which it does not.

And it lacks the Gradient Node's ability to animate keys. :sigh:

I was just playing around w/it applied to camera motion, and while the camera ICON didn't move, there was a small dot moving around appropriately. Tried turning on Studio Live, no difference. This is with "Nodal Motion", not "Node Item Motion". --Am I just forgetting that this is how nodal motion is displayed in the UI???

Julez4001
10-16-2016, 01:16 AM
Isn't it so? This is one powerful node on steroids and if it could be controlled by let's say nulls in a C4D-ish manner our lives would be easier.

I wonder if there is an alternative node that's similar t Curve

Reminds of Photoshop\After Effects where so many third party folks came up with their own Curve tool even it already existed.

jeric_synergy
10-16-2016, 01:19 AM
Okay, its working but for some reason, the object reacts as if the morph amount compared to the null's located is always at a minimum of 5 % versus 0%
In other words, you can always see the object pre-cracked regardless of where the null is located.
Is there a way to clamped the minimum down to 0%

134807

From your screen grab it doesn't look like your gradient goes down to absolute black.

Julez4001
10-16-2016, 01:24 AM
Fracture tool experts - what LW tool mimics the "exploded" effect from Fracture in Modeler.

I am liking the morph effect that it generates but I would like to make multiple morphs that pushes the pieces out at different amounts compounded on each other.

- - - Updated - - -


From your screen grab it doesn't look like your gradient goes down to absolute black.

That was it, Jeric, you have a great eye.

erikals
10-16-2016, 02:04 AM
coming along  http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

not sure if this could spawn some ideas? >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEsQreToxhM

jeric_synergy
10-16-2016, 02:12 AM
IIRC, relative morph maps are VECTORS, so you could have multiple m.maps, and use different nulls to trigger them. I think they'd automatically get added together, but certainly you could vector.add them in the nodal editor.

What I don't know is how one might have a null pass thru an object, converting it to its m.map, and have the null continue on but the map persist. You can fake it by using just one coordinate (like "just X") but I don't know how'd you'd do it in an effector-ish way. Faking it that way also wouldn't work for a convoluted object, like a twisted rope or knot, that one wanted to have morph along its length.

I'd be interested in the solution for that.

Julez4001
10-16-2016, 08:21 AM
Erikals, I should have known you had a similar morph solution.

Has anyone had any luck with object sequence (without hiccupping and skipping\drop frames)?

erikals
10-16-2016, 09:06 AM
yes http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif got quite a lot of tests out there http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

object sequence is often a last option, as it doesn't give you motion blur.
(unless you have a program that deals with this, such as RealFlow)

Prince Charming
10-16-2016, 10:04 AM
IIRC, relative morph maps are VECTORS, so you could have multiple m.maps, and use different nulls to trigger them. I think they'd automatically get added together, but certainly you could vector.add them in the nodal editor.

What I don't know is how one might have a null pass thru an object, converting it to its m.map, and have the null continue on but the map persist. You can fake it by using just one coordinate (like "just X") but I don't know how'd you'd do it in an effector-ish way. Faking it that way also wouldn't work for a convoluted object, like a twisted rope or knot, that one wanted to have morph along its length.

I'd be interested in the solution for that.
You do your deformation in object space so that it is always in a straight line...then when you deform it works as expected. I am not sure exactly what julez is going for, but I am pretty sure its possible.

For something like this its probably best to use a distance gradient in one direction, and also add a gradient that gets the x y distance from the center.... that way the outside pieces move first.

If I undertand what julez is tr trying to do... I think the easiest way is to use the explode morph you can create when you fracture based on distance to part. Like I explained above...

Julez4001
10-16-2016, 03:52 PM
yes http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif got quite a lot of tests out there http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

object sequence is often a last option, as it doesn't give you motion blur.
(unless you have a program that deals with this, such as RealFlow)

Can you export motion and motion y pass and come up with motion blur in Reelmotion RealBlur plugin After Effects.

erikals
10-16-2016, 04:06 PM
yes, you could do that, haven't tried it though, i believe you can use a DPont node setup

Gerardo link is gone, re-uploading...

Julez4001
10-16-2016, 05:31 PM
The multi-morph single envelope technique would work if one had control over the explode "centering" in Fracture. If I could move it along the object, one could generate a sequence of morphs or object sequence.

Prince Charming
10-16-2016, 06:10 PM
This is as close to your drawing as I could get in 30 min...
Uses particles to sim the motion, than part move to stick parts to particles, then bake out mdd, then offset the mdd based on part position. If you are on mac it probably wont work, otherwise it is a good solution to your picture. This of course can be modified in an infinite amount of ways to get the exact effect you are going for.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8GqBop8vVFyRktTTVpFTThES2s/view?usp=sharing

erikals
10-16-2016, 06:29 PM
nice, just a micro-preview video (unlisted video, so only linked here)   http://www.icon100.com/up/2330/24/chain.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uTpEansPms

Prince Charming
10-16-2016, 06:53 PM
nice, just a micro-preview video (unlisted video, so only linked here)   http://www.icon100.com/up/2330/24/chain.png



What is odd is that I get a perfect cylinder whith out those cracks.

https://youtu.be/Z3TWgOn1ZK8

erikals
10-16-2016, 07:01 PM
edit 1: oh, i was missing a TextureHandler node or something. might be it.
edit 2: no, still happening. had to use a super old graphics card, managed to shortcut the last one (again) might be it.
edit 3: alright, it looks good in VPR, so probably my graphics card that's causing it.

Julez4001
10-16-2016, 07:45 PM
How are the rocks flying to the left like that? Gravity?

Prince Charming
10-16-2016, 07:56 PM
There are nodes in the velocity, and gravity on the -y and z.
The nodes were used to get them to fly out to the side like in your pic.
Basically, I am getting a vector between the point and the center of the pillar. That would make them shoot out in all directions like a cylindrical explosion, then I squashed the y vector to almost nothing to make them go mostly on the x.


Let me explain a little better exactly what I did. It could get confusing if you never used this type of workflow before.

The first thing I did was sim the particles from the points layer that I got by running "dp center_part" on the fractured mesh.
All the particles get emitted at the same frame all at once.
Then I stuck the parts to the particles using part move and particle info.
Then I baked out the mdd.
Then I used mdd cache node to stagger the start time of the mdd based on the z position, and also, the xy distance from the center.

prometheus
10-17-2016, 06:24 AM
to aim for?

around 16:00 in the clip when you get more descriptions from the screenshots...


https://vimeo.com/88391123

erikals
10-17-2016, 06:56 AM
a very cool clip, not that hard to do. bit time-consuming though. [tweaking-tweaking]

prometheus
10-17-2016, 07:31 AM
a very cool clip, not that hard to do. bit time-consuming though. [tweaking-tweaking]

It is, and also taking time to simulate, I got the chance to get some of that training series, not sure I got them all downloaded before they expired, thought it was interesting to see what techniques was used etc and if it
was adaptable to lightwave.
His using mostly max for this and some scripting with the particles, may have to revisit...but too little time, and the fact that I canīt follow along with max made it a bit less interesting to folow along.

Prince Charming
10-17-2016, 07:31 AM
I messed with this a little more and I am glad that I did. In the process I discovered a proper way to deal with secondary particle emission. All thanks to a plug that I found last night that converts deformed geometry into a .pfx. I cant believe I didn't think of it sooner, I thought of this method last night, and searched for the plug, and luckily someone had already made it.

Now we can get point velocities using nearest particle, and emit secondary particles automatically. I have been searching for an elegant way to do this for a long time... this is about the best we are going to get for now.

This can work with any simulation whether its bullet, lw dynamics, or even point deformations. I will post a detailed tut at some point... This is too good not to share.

https://youtu.be/gnsVJOzWOk8

prometheus
10-17-2016, 07:38 AM
All thanks to a plug that I found last night that converts deformed geometry into a .pfx. I cant believe I didn't think of it sooner, I thought of this method last night, and searched for the plug, and luckily someone had already made it.



https://youtu.be/gnsVJOzWOk8

yeah..I recall that plugin somewhere, but not anymore.

Prince Charming
10-17-2016, 07:55 AM
yeah..I recall that plugin somewhere, but not anymore.

I got if from the data base by searching pfx. Its by the vue scripts guy I think...
I thought it was broke at first, but turns out it gets the frame range from the render globals frame range. It is a Lscript, so its not the fastest, but it worked with everything I though at it... eventually.

prometheus
10-17-2016, 07:59 AM
I got if from the data base by searching pfx. Its by the vue scripts guy I think...
I thought it was broke at first, but turns out it gets the frame range from the render globals frame range. It is a Lscript, so its not the fastest, but it worked with everything I though at it... eventually.

Ahh..that may be why I also left it unresearched when I tested it some time ago.

prometheus
10-17-2016, 08:09 AM
I was wrong, I actually have used it and working, cool things when you for instance just use a box and move it..maybe by fx motion and some spinning rotation, run this plugin and you get a pfx file from the vertices postion during the animation, then load the pfx file in modeler with tibepfx loader to get a polychain, then I send it to blender for use with the skin modifier and make tubes of that pfx path, so that way you get some cool extrusion modeling based on the pathfx that is derived from any points vertices...but that is a different story than this topic.

and this is the more direct link I reckon...
http://www.vuescripts.com/_A/index.php?aid=85

Julez4001
10-17-2016, 10:22 AM
Whats the name of the lscript?

prometheus
10-17-2016, 10:27 AM
Whats the name of the lscript?

If I am not mistaken about what bryphi mentioned, it is the script I posted the link to above...it is zipped, but unpacked it is called.LF_Obj_Pfx.ls