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Amerelium
10-13-2016, 02:27 AM
I know there are discussions about this in here, but for the sake of getting an overview updated for 2016:

I want to add some clouds to a scene.

They do not need to move, but have volume and cast shadows, and I need so render them from all angles, not just from underneath.

Should I use plugins, or LW various internal options?

Are there any good non-commercial plugins?

Will ogo taiki work at all on a 64-bit LW installation?


Thanks.

prometheus
10-13-2016, 05:44 AM
I know there are discussions about this in here, but for the sake of getting an overview updated for 2016:

I want to add some clouds to a scene.

They do not need to move, but have volume and cast shadows, and I need so render them from all angles, not just from underneath.

Should I use plugins, or LW various internal options?

Are there any good non-commercial plugins?

Will ogo taiki work at all on a 64-bit LW installation?


Thanks.

No ogo taiki will not work on 64 bit.
for full volume clouds, well, itīs commercial unlike what you wanted...otherwise you could invest in turbulenceFD, and also check Kelly Myers tutorials for clouds with turbulenceFD fluids, that would both a commercial purchase for the tutorial and the fluid plugin.
otherwise, you got hypervoxels..check my cloud stuff, but it will take a lot of time to learn them and get them ok, and you should avoid fly throughs with hypervoxels..if you can have the camera with a lot of distance to the clouds, then it might be feasable, otherwise you would probably want to bake clouds out..but then you canīt have them animated to move, and you would need to rescale down your scene to smaller dimensions.

is this a personal project or a project you need to finish for someone at a certain deadline? otherwise I would suggest to put it on hold til the new lightwave comes out(guessing early 2017) and go for the completly new volumetric system that they have introduced.

https://plus.google.com/photos/100944643113557837045/albums/5978023753291712209


https://vimeo.com/86189990

prometheus
10-13-2016, 05:51 AM
there may be some good solutions with octane plugin for lightwave as well, but I havenīt tried that out, but that is additional cost as well.

so hypervoxels..baked or unbaked is probably the only "volumetric option" you got for semi decent realism, without additional cost.

Ahh..I just saw it, they do not need to move...alright, then you might wanīt to bake them to the highest image resolution, but it is hard to tweak them since the result you tweak doesnīt look the same as the final result, and you would have to rescale all scene elements down to fit a ratio of maybe 1 meter clouds that is supposed to be several hundred of meters.

xevious2501 did some great fly throughs with baked hypervoxels, though I still think it lacks detail and quality, and you can not animate clouds moving...

But if you do not need the camera to go too close or through clouds, ordinary hypervoxels clouds without even baking is good enough, if you know how to reduce the settings for faster renders, turn off shadowed textures, turn off volumetric AA etc.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VLWiSY-PWM

Amerelium
10-13-2016, 06:15 AM
I'd like to add some top side (and maybe some between the building) clouds to this one:

https://vimeo.com/184041325

And for my next project, I'm going to keep the camera even further away.

I would really prefer to stay within LW when working - clouds are really new territory for me, so I guess I'll mess around with hypervoxels a bit

prometheus
10-13-2016, 06:32 AM
I'd like to add some top side (and maybe some between the building) clouds to this one:

https://vimeo.com/184041325

And for my next project, I'm going to keep the camera even further away.

I would really prefer to stay within LW when working - clouds are really new territory for me, so I guess I'll mess around with hypervoxels a bit

there are various ways of working with hypervoxels, some uses point clusters, some uses particles, some uses nulls, or you can use a grid with supatch and use density maps on that subpatch grid to set the cloud shape density.

Using nulls in current lightwave is a bit bad, since using more nulls for adjusting placement and size means that each null have itīs own hv instance shading, instead of grouping it..and that means extremely slow to render if they overlap..so using points or particles that uses the same hv group is better, the problem with that though, you have not good point or per particle control to adjust small points like with nulls, with the new system coming up I think that has been improved.

for point clusters there are many ways to create point clusters, there is a hidden fill solid tool, search for it in the menus and drag it out to fit in your menus somewhere, fill solid can fill your objects with points, if you add spheres and place them or sculpt model a mesh, then fill it with points, click it several times to fill with more points, unfortunatly it is very simple and doesnīt let you specify points.

Amerelium
10-14-2016, 02:19 PM
It looks like point solid filling shapes and using LWs hypervoxels will work fine for my use - thanks

prometheus
10-15-2016, 02:19 AM
It looks like point solid filling shapes and using LWs hypervoxels will work fine for my use - thanks

Great, then you found it, by default fill solid tool isnīt even in any menu, so you have to search menu and add your own button ..perhaps in the create points menu.
I would suggest uses color wireframe, so you can see the points filled better, donīt add to many either.

there is also ways of "freezing particles" in layout, lets say you make a sort of billowing particle motion, then you can freeze it ..by default most of us might use the hv emitter, and as such you need the particle2partigon command, which will make partigons/points in the current keyframe you stand on, you can then save that out and continue to model on that in modeler, you can also use birt rate textures and use actual cloud maps(or fractal textures) to produce a birth rate of particles..which you could then freeze the same way.

I will not post my hv work and do work for you but if you have questions or want feedback and some description help, just post a few sample images and I am happy to give suggestions.

jwiede
10-18-2016, 12:35 PM
Amerelium, first off, cool work, thanks for sharing!

Just a suggestion, ignore at your leisure, but unless you're adding clouds solely "for aesthetics", you might want to think about weather patterns a bit more before finalizing the design of the big flat ship (in the ovoid enclosure). In particular, might want to look at how cloud fronts form on "lee side" of mountain ranges, etc. then think about what would happen in those "building canyons". ;D

Anyway, just a thought, understand completely if setting enables you to "tech away" such issues, but felt remiss if I didn't mention it.

MonroePoteet
10-19-2016, 11:34 AM
Since the "feel" of the piece is fairly stylized, I wouldn't spend too much time on hyper photorealistic clouds.

You might have some luck with single-HV clouds using the various HV Stretch, Texture, Texture parameters, etc. For example, attached is a simple scene with four Nulls with a single Volume HV apiece, and using different Hypertextures, either stretched in X (by like 500%) or Y (by some amount like 20%) to flatten them out. These HVs are not to scale, and HVs get pretty slow to render as you get closer to them, but might give you some ideas. You might also experiment with Ground Fog in the Volumetrics panel.

134857

134856

mTp

prometheus
10-19-2016, 11:49 AM
Since the "feel" of the piece is fairly stylized, I wouldn't spend too much time on hyper photorealistic clouds.

You might have some luck with single-HV clouds using the various HV Stretch, Texture, Texture parameters, etc. For example, attached is a simple scene with four Nulls with a single Volume HV apiece, and using different Hypertextures, either stretched in X (by like 500%) or Y (by some amount like 20%) to flatten them out. These HVs are not to scale, and HVs get pretty slow to render as you get closer to them, but might give you some ideas. You might also experiment with Ground Fog in the Volumetrics panel.


mTp


I used to use stretched variants as well long time ago, but I donīt think it looks good enough and destroys the actual cloud realism, you could use a single null or just a few points, for large hv sizes, and then use nodes and gradients to make flat clouds, heres a sharp cut off, but you can make it smoother as well by just blurring the image gradient area between black and white a bit..(please donīt ask me for scenefiles, do not know where it is either right now)

Single null with some node texture gradient for a flat cloud..( I am awaiting the new better volumetrics which will make this better looking and faster I reckon..I think they have improved on working with several clone hv instances)


http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121399&d=1397273815




Or use particles...but if you intend to have camera too close or fly through, long..long rendertimes.


http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134858&d=1476899157