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Cyberfish_Fred
10-06-2016, 05:20 AM
What's happening? No news anymore...please give us something....

:devil:

Hope to hear something soon!

Freddy



https://vimeo.com/185320136

Photogram
10-06-2016, 06:21 AM
What's happening? No news anymore...please give us something....

:devil:

Hope to hear something soon!

Freddy



https://vimeo.com/185320136


I hope we will be able to try Lightwave Next before the arrival of Niburu ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqtXRXbIA74

3D Kiwi
10-06-2016, 06:32 AM
Yep all getting a bit boring now.

50one
10-06-2016, 06:47 AM
Would be great to see it released before the nuclear winter seeing US having the finger constantly on bang switch.

prometheus
10-06-2016, 07:43 AM
I am thinking about starting a questionable thread, it may be called, " is lightwave 2016 coming soon? " or something like that.
Isnt if fair to say now that 2016 is probably a Miscarriage for this year.

samurai_x
10-06-2016, 08:24 AM
The only info about lw release is from fb.
One user saying its close after talking to newtek support. Then Lino comes in saying its not and stop spreading that news.

Its probably a long way to go. According to some posts the goal is removing the old renderer and making the new renderer completely replace and support all of lightwaves functions, if that's even possible on its initial release.

I hope it doesn't turn out to be like Core, too early, or XSI, too late.

Every4thPixel
10-06-2016, 08:40 AM
I don't understand why there is a dead silence around the LW development all of a sudden. First they create blog which suggest LW is alive and then.... nothing. What could be the reason? Why would you show off new stuff and then when people start asking questions be dead silent? My point of view is that it's normal to ask questions about a product you use and then get an answer. Maybe it's not the answer you wanted but at least it's something. So what if the answer to threads like this is "you have to wait a few months". It's something. The thing is that if I hear nothing at all a start to get worried a bit. I'm thinking they might have some trouble with shareholders or stakeholders or any thing. They could forbid communication to us users for example. I think that's why we don't hear anything. If you can keep a silence like this there must be a lot at stake if it was otherwise they would have shown us little goodies don't you think?

Just my speculation.. ;)

samurai_x
10-06-2016, 09:57 AM
Newtek needs to really work double time.

Modo 10.2 is around the corner.
https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/about-us/news-awards/modo-10-2-is-coming/

Marander
10-06-2016, 11:32 AM
Holy cow already another modo release? And the release date is in 10 days!

- MeshFusion improvements
- Procedural modeling improvements
- Faster rendering and playback performance
- Auto retopo
- etc...

Sounds great and even 40% off for new seats (for 7 days, this is what I would consider a proper sale).




Newtek needs to really work double time.

Modo 10.2 is around the corner.
https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/about-us/news-awards/modo-10-2-is-coming/

erikals
10-06-2016, 11:47 AM
is there a LightWave 2016 ?
i'm assuming it will launch as LightWave 2017.

yes, Modo is nice, but it's also sometimes not so nice. Depends on what one would want.

as for the LW launch, we need to start a betting contest.

rustythe1
10-06-2016, 12:07 PM
The only info about lw release is from fb.
One user saying its close after talking to newtek support. Then Lino comes in saying its not and stop spreading that news.

Its probably a long way to go. According to some posts the goal is removing the old renderer and making the new renderer completely replace and support all of lightwaves functions, if that's even possible on its initial release.

I hope it doesn't turn out to be like Core, too early, or XSI, too late.

the renderer was already done, Rob had already stated all the stuff they were showing on the blog would be things that were already working and in Lightwave, what he said they were going to try and work on was a way to get old assets to come across as painless as possible but that area was less of a priority, everything else after that was to improve what was already working at that time

rustythe1
10-06-2016, 12:12 PM
We have considered the comments from those of you who have expressed concern for upgrading based solely on my promises and no real evidence of substantial advancements in the LightWave architecture and systems. So, I would like to share with you some quick render samples that have been created showing our completely new rendering, shading, and volumetric engine which will be part of the next LightWave release.

This is not some form of reworking of the old render engine but it is an entirely new physically based render “PBR” engine. Complete new GI, materials, and lights are part of this new system as well. To be clear, this is not some planned future technology, but it is now implemented in LightWave.
Starting this week we will launch a new blog sharing more details on this and other LightWave developments. However, I wanted to share a little more than a sneak peek with you now to help those who have expressed their desire to see something “real”.

quoted from the thread, "now implemented" and that was over a year ago.

js33
10-06-2016, 12:42 PM
What is this, like the 20th thread of "Where is Lightwave - Any news?". My advice to anyone still in limbo "waiting" is to check out other software while "waiting". There are demo or learning editions of most other 3D software available. You could be spending this "waiting" time learning Maya, C4D, Modo, Houdini, 3D Max and even Blender.

Since the LW3DG has been this quiet this long it leads one to wonder and speculate that something beyond software issues is the problem. So it would be a good idea to get familiar with other software even if you still plan to use Lightwave.

MichaelT
10-06-2016, 12:56 PM
Well I have already started my new project. I had given myself a deadline for the new Lightwave. I really wanted to use it for the new project, but that will not happen now. I will use another tool, and it probably won't be a hard guess which one. After that? I don't know.. I will probably still pick up the new version (because I like Lightwave) and use it personally, but for projects? I don't know... this lack of communication is troublesome.

Spinland
10-06-2016, 01:00 PM
Sigh. These threads are so effing useless, at least IMNSDHO.

Are you guys busy out there making money with LW 2015.3? Do you have issues that are cutting into your revenue stream? Let's try to use these kinds of threads to address those, shall we?

By the FSM, the current incarnation of LW is getting the job done, keeping my mortgage paid and my family fed. What more can one ask? Maybe I'm a mercenary besmirching the artistic purity of somesuch, but dayum (to use the Southern vernacular of my upbringing). I love new toys. I love having fun and improved workflows handed to me for a really modest fee (have you paid for some of the other add-on upgrades lately? Aieee), but at some point I have to rein in the horses and take stock: What the actual F*%#? The new version will be here when it gets here. Hopefully you will be so overwhelmed with production work you don't really care, because you're too smart to change software versions mid-production; right?

bazsa73
10-06-2016, 01:04 PM
I'm sure the new release will be so cool that it blows you all off of your feet. Or not.

Spinland
10-06-2016, 01:07 PM
I'm sure the new release will be so cool that it blows you all off of your feet. Or not.

Man, I am so there. Think inflatable kids' fun house but with real shite going on. I want one of the golden rings that slay mine enemies. :D

rustythe1
10-06-2016, 01:10 PM
I'm working fine with 2015, I just want to get my hands on those new voxels and get back to doing some personal renders, for everything else I do lightwave will just get faster and faster as hardware gets quicker, so really, lightwave does improve with time without them even having to do anything!

Spinland
10-06-2016, 01:15 PM
I'm working fine with 2015, I just want to get my hands on those new voxels and get back to doing some personal renders, for everything else I do lightwave will just get faster and faster as hardware gets quicker, so really, lightwave does improve with time without them even having to do anything!

Well said. I wax impatient with these threads, obviously. LW3DG will release the new version when they're ready. Trying to second guess them—or worse, denigrate their timetable—is pure hubris at best, lamitude at worst, unless you are in the same business and can demonstrate to us, the drunken horde making bank using these tools, that your silly-***** opinions bear weight.

For cripe's sake: it'll get here eventually. STFU and keep on doing your avocation. If you're so lacking in work you have time to fret here about this kind of thing I submit you don't have enough dogs in the proverbial hunt to matter.

Marander
10-06-2016, 01:29 PM
For cripe's sake: it'll get here eventually. STFU and keep on doing your avocation.

What's wrong in sharing opinions? I find it interesting. We're all customers of LW3DG and it would be nice to have some updates or transparency from them, so I understand people thinking of alternatives for future projects, comparing applications, plugins, solutions, workflows, etc. For some users, "eventually" will be too late. If you don't like these discussions, why are you reading them.

js33
10-06-2016, 01:42 PM
Exactly. If the LW3DG doesn't care enough about their customers to keep them informed maybe they don't deserve to have them and maybe they won't going forward.

bobakabob
10-06-2016, 02:08 PM
Agree with Spinland, these threads are a senseless waste of human life. I don't know why I'm even typing this, except to express mild annoyance as this is a duplication of another thread clogging up the forum. It's obvious the team are working on stability.

Why not enjoy LW 2015.3, and optional plugins such as 3rd Powers, RHiggit, LWCad. What can't you create with these?

If they're not good enough, use other software (there are plenty to spend good money on and enjoy).

MichaelT
10-06-2016, 02:12 PM
These threads are popping up for a reason. And that is because of lack of communication. I communicated the reasons, and wants.. if you care or not is up to you.
I felt that that my choice not to wait any longer actually matters. It sends a signal. And I don't think that I am alone in that line of thinking either. I also think that
it is pretty clear how tolerant I am when it comes to waiting. I still am.. but my project isn't. Life moves on.

bobakabob
10-06-2016, 02:18 PM
Not sure why the same folk who claim they're 'moving on' keep coming back to start new threads to claim they're moving on. The C4D campaign clearly isn't working :)

js33
10-06-2016, 02:37 PM
I do agree these threads are mostly a waste of time which is why I suggested that people take this time to check out other software. I am learning C4D and liking it a lot. For me, if I have paying work I have to use LW at the moment because C4D is just a demo and I currently am I lot more proficient in Lightwave. But there is also the tiny hope that the LW3DG may actually respond but that light is getting steadily dimmer.

m.d.
10-06-2016, 02:41 PM
is there a LightWave 2016 ?
i'm assuming it will launch as LightWave 2017.


I agree

Turbulence has 'LW 2017 support' in its change logs, so I doubt there is a LW 2016....
It may or may not be released in 2016....but I think it'll be called LW 2017

pinkmouse
10-06-2016, 03:03 PM
...Why not enjoy LW 2015.3...

'Cos it's really, really crashy? I'll stick to 11.6.3, ta very much. ;)

Nicolas Jordan
10-06-2016, 03:21 PM
I have been a Lightwave user for about 17 years and I honestly can't recall such a dead silence on these forums from the developers of Lightwave. They are either very hard at work and can't be bothered or something that could negatively impact Lightwave is happening that we just don't know about yet. I sure hope we hear something....anything soon.

DrStrik9
10-06-2016, 03:22 PM
I'm patient, and will be happy to receive LW-Next when it is released. There are some major changes in architecture, etc., etc. -- So from a development standpoint, it does take a ton of work to make that level of change solid. And the promises are really wonderful!

However, as a student of branding, I think they may regret the inconsistency of their communications about this update in the long run. Brand is essentially the promises a company makes. It is also keeping those promises, and doing it all CONSISTENTLY. Otherwise you end up sending a message to existing and potential customers that you did not intend to send.

js33
10-06-2016, 03:41 PM
The message most of us are hearing is that you better learn other software because Lightwave is either dead, dying or so far behind that it can't catch up anyway. Take a moment and browse production job boards or any job board with 3D as the search term and you will find zero or almost zero jobs requesting Lightwave experience. If you freelance it shouldn't matter what software you are using except that your potential customer sees a lot of 3D things these days that were likely created using other software. Say your client asks for some sophisticated Mograph stuff done with C4D or Maya and wants that. If you are only using Lightwave you likely won't be able to produce it in a timely money making manner if it all.

We would all like to be proven wrong by the LW3DG but so far we haven't.

bobakabob
10-06-2016, 03:56 PM
It really isn't a big deal. Re 'moving on', software isn't a religion. It might surprise some posters here but shock, horror, many LW users use other software out of interest, or for commercial reasons as a matter of course. In my own case LW gave me transferable skills so I picked Maya up quickly and it really developed my career. However, I'm really glad to have LW for freelance and personal stuff as the alternatives are either overpriced or sub only. There really is no need to rave about C4D here when the Maxon forum is one click away. It's only really interesting if there's a discussion about integrating it with LW and showing something creative.

hrgiger
10-06-2016, 03:59 PM
Holy cow already another modo release? And the release date is in 10 days!

- MeshFusion improvements
- Procedural modeling improvements
- Faster rendering and playback performance
- Auto retopo
- etc...



Nothing surprising about it. The Foundry has shifted their Modo schedule to smaller, more frequent releases so we can expect about 3 smaller Modo releases per year. They're also more focused so gone it seems are the days of getting a release that shows improvements across most areas of the application. Now the releases will be mainly focused on one area or aspect of Modo at a time.

Concerning the complete silence from LW3DG, well I just say its utter bs they can't find the time to communicate with users.

To Spinland and others who seem indifferent to this, I would just say ignore the thread, obviously you're fine, but its silly to suggest others shouldn't be upset or even concerned. This isn't about new toys, or keeping up with the Modos or Joneses of the world or about what I can or can't do in 2015 (actually it is a little bit but that's besides the point).

I have a long history of using LightWave and if it wasn't for that and for LWCAD, I probably would have given it up a while ago. During and after CORE, NT thoroughly tested the patience of its userbase and after they ditched it, I wanted to quit LightWave at that moment. But I try to not make rash decisions and I'd already paid for it so I just focused on learning other things but kept my upgrade option open with Lightwave. None of the concerns that CORE sought to address or longstanding difficulties that most longtime LightWave users are aware of have been addressed at all with subsequent releases, not in 10, not in 11 nor in 2015 and modeler has suffered greatly in that regard. Now last year, they finally show some sign that they understand the need for an overhaul of LightWave architecture. Now, 7 months later there is nothing but speculation again and complete silence from a company that truly does not appreciate the incredible patience their userbase has shown them over the years.

erikals
10-06-2016, 04:01 PM
The message most of us are hearing is that you better learn other software because Lightwave is either dead, dying or so far behind that it can't catch up anyway. Take a moment and browse production job boards or any job board with 3D as the search term and you will find zero or almost zero jobs requesting Lightwave experience
well, i heard that very same thing 5 years ago.


Say your client asks for some sophisticated Mograph stuff done with C4D or Maya and wants that. If you are only using Lightwave you likely won't be able to produce it in a timely money making manner if it all.
um, what i've seen in C4D as far as Motion Graphics hasn't been something one couldn't replicate in LightWave.
- the minus is, C4D is much faster as far as setting up / tweaking Motion Graphics stuff.
- the second minus is, much more Motion Graphics tutorials for C4D, very very few for LightWave.
but if you are a 101% Motion Graphics guy, you'd never choose LW as a first choice anyway.
and no, LightWave 2017 will hardly be any better in that regard.

however(!) LightWave has other advantages. it's up to the user to choose his/her software.
and so far, i'm sticking with LightWave.

bringing up Motion Graphics as a "join or fall" feature is a bit unfair.
besides, much of the Motion Graphics stuff i've seen made with C4D looks like something done by a bunch of copycats.

hrgiger
10-06-2016, 04:07 PM
The message most of us are hearing is that you better learn other software because Lightwave is either dead, dying or so far behind that it can't catch up anyway.

Ok while I find the silence from LW3DG an utter load of crap, we've been hearing this argument for years and its bollocks. LightWave doesn't have to be Maya or even Modo, it doesn't have to be the main app in your pipeline (and I would argue at this point it would be silly to do that anyway) or used in a lot of high profile studios and the idea of 'catching up' is relative. Why can't you use LightWave Joe asks? Because Joe, the International brotherhood of forum posters says its not catching up! Again, bollocks. XSI was years ahead of LightWave in terms of scalability, flexibility and just raw power. Where is it today?

People will use LightWave or they won't. I notice a lot of people who say LightWave is dead or not 'keeping up' or sure stick around here for a long time to remind everyone else of it.

js33
10-06-2016, 04:36 PM
well, i heard that very same thing 5 years ago.


um, what i've seen in C4D as far as Motion Graphics hasn't been something one couldn't replicate in LightWave.
- the minus is, C4D is much faster as far as setting up / tweaking Motion Graphics stuff.
- the second minus is, much more Motion Graphics tutorials for C4D, very very few for LightWave.
but if you are a 101% Motion Graphics guy, you'd never choose LW as a first choice anyway.
and no, LightWave 2017 will hardly be any better in that regard.

however(!) LightWave has other advantages. it's up to the user to choose his/her software.
and so far, i'm sticking with LightWave.

bringing up Motion Graphics as a "join or fall" feature is a bit unfair.
besides, much of the Motion Graphics stuff i've seen made with C4D looks like something done by a bunch of copycats.

You would be hard pressed to replicate the mograph from C4D in LW unless you are a node expert like Bryphi. He admits LW is missing too many tools to be able to do it properly.
If someone was able to create a plugin like MASH or C4D mograph for Lightwave I'm sure you would not object to it.
As far as the mograph looking like copycats I see some of that but it usually is because people are doing stock things for tutorials. There really is no limit to what can be done with it.

js33
10-06-2016, 04:42 PM
Ok while I find the silence from LW3DG an utter load of crap, we've been hearing this argument for years and its bollocks. LightWave doesn't have to be Maya or even Modo, it doesn't have to be the main app in your pipeline (and I would argue at this point it would be silly to do that anyway) or used in a lot of high profile studios and the idea of 'catching up' is relative. Why can't you use LightWave Joe asks? Because Joe, the International brotherhood of forum posters says its not catching up! Again, bollocks. XSI was years ahead of LightWave in terms of scalability, flexibility and just raw power. Where is it today?

People will use LightWave or they won't. I notice a lot of people who say LightWave is dead or not 'keeping up' or sure stick around here for a long time to remind everyone else of it.

XSI was bought by AD to kill competition and then totally mismanaged or killed on purpose. A lot of it's technology is slowly making it's way into Maya and Max.

Even you would admit, or maybe delusionally not, that Lightwave USED to be used on a lot of high profile TV shows and movies. Today not so much. Lightwave is not taught in schools, not in job listings, no ones asks if you have Lightwave experience. So what part of keep up do you not understand? You can live in your delusional bubble and no one will really care.

erikals
10-06-2016, 04:47 PM
You would be hard pressed to replicate the mograph from C4D in LW unless you are a node expert like Bryphi.
sort of, i just checked out several C4D Motion Graphics examples, and i can replicate 85% of them.
probably close to 100% in time.
true, i'm no newbie, and i do have a LightWave Motion Graphics archive on the computer.
i don't expect people to have that, but C4D's reputation, is 50% that. a reputation.

xSI was Fantastic, King of the Hill, but we all know what it's magnificent marketing led to...
just saying, 100 nice C4D videos doesn't necessarily mean LightWave can't kick it.


He admits LW is missing too many tools to be able to do it properly.
LightWave is absolutely missing Motion Graphics tools.
can't recall him stating "LightWave can't do it properly" though.
but of course, like i've said many times. LightWave is not "the" Motion Graphics tool.
and again, however, it has many other nice features.


If someone was able to create a plugin like MASH or C4D mograph for Lightwave I'm sure you would not object to it.
at what price? and what subscription?


There really is no limit to what can be done with it.
yet, i've seen videos from Bryphi surpassing most C4D vids out there.
i agree, C4D is great, but hyped.

js33
10-06-2016, 04:52 PM
I'm not saying LW can't ever do mograph but C4D has dedicated tools that are fast and easy to use and LW does not. One would need to be a LW node expert or near expert to get close where someone can open C4D for the first time and be doing it right away with no previous knowledge and go from there.

I'm not really focused on Mograph myself that much but I have been demoing C4D and it's the new thing for me. Most of my experience using LW has been industrial mechanical animations and LW is well suited for that kind of work but I am branching out and doing new things.

As far as a mograph plugin who knows what it would cost? I suggested to Bryphi that he team up with a programmer to make one.
MASH was a standalone plugin for Maya before AD bought it but I don't know what it cost then. I would imagine, depending on capabilities and integration, it would probably be in the 2-300 range.

50one
10-06-2016, 05:02 PM
I would like to know one thing.

What is the reason for gag order, it just makes no sense, I thought the comms went well and people enjoyed the blog?

erikals
10-06-2016, 05:07 PM
Lightwave USED to be used on a lot of high profile TV shows and movies. Today not so much.

this comes in waves.
XSI was used on Jurassic Park, Sky Captain, Happy Feet, T2, Superman returns +++
Maya was used on "everything else"
Max was used on... well, some things.
LightWave was a Ruler, now it's not. However, the last years improvements will, unquestionably, make it climb.

it will take time though.

50one
10-06-2016, 05:12 PM
sort of, i just checked out several C4D Motion Graphics examples, and i can replicate 85% of them.
probably close to 100% in time.
true, i'm no newbie, and i do have a LightWave Motion Graphics archive on the computer.
i don't expect people to have that, but C4D's reputation, is 50% that. a reputation.

xSI was Fantastic, King of the Hill, but we all know what it's magnificent marketing led to...
just saying, 100 nice C4D videos doesn't necessarily mean LightWave can't kick it.


LightWave is absolutely missing Motion Graphics tools.
can't recall him stating "LightWave can't do it properly" though.
but of course, like i've said many times. LightWave is not "the" Motion Graphics tool.
and again, however, it has many other nice features.


at what price? and what subscription?


yet, i've seen videos from Bryphi surpassing most C4D vids out there.
i agree, C4D is great, but hyped.


Really? Can you create dynamic geometry? Dynamic text? Non destructing deformers and animate them? Import vector file and animate extrusion and bevel parameters? Add spline masks to it? What about dynamic arrays? Cinema is not perfect but c'mon. We already had one guy here who could match or surpass vray with lw native but so far no evidence of it ;)

erikals
10-06-2016, 05:16 PM
i said i can replicate most of it, but not in the same manner.

read what i wrote, not what you think i wrote.

js33
10-06-2016, 05:17 PM
Yeah thats the thing maybe someone could do C4D stuff in LW with a lot of time and effort but is it worth beating your head against the wall when other software can do it with relative ease?

erikals
10-06-2016, 05:21 PM
i saw a C4D video tutorial that i could do 300% faster. 100% identical.

but i've said this many times before > Yes C4D is generally much faster and easier to use for Motion Graphics.


( ...but not all things in life are Motion Graphics )

js33
10-06-2016, 05:24 PM
I would like to know one thing.

What is the reason for gag order, it just makes no sense, I thought the comms went well and people enjoyed the blog?

Yeah it is weird for a company to act this way. Its almost like they are hiding something.

- - - Updated - - -



i saw a C4D video tutorial that i could do 300% faster. 100% identical.

but i've said this many times before > Yes C4D is generally much faster and easier to use for Motion Graphics.


( ...but not all things in life are Motion Graphics )

Can you show us an example? True not all things in 3D are MG but the thing is all those tools can be applied to other types of animation as well. If modeling tools were more integrated into Layout the MG stuff would be a lot more possible.

erikals
10-06-2016, 05:30 PM
sorry, skipping the example. already used to much time on this. maybe i'll get back to it, maybe even uploading some vidz on how to. we'll see. much to do.
----------------

If modeling tools were more integrated into Layout the MG stuff would be a lot more possible.
hey, silence! you touched a very sore spot!  :/
definitely the Achilles heel of LightWave.

----------------
but haven't heard of One person defending the silence.
well, it is what it is... moving along...   http://erikalstad.com/emoti/ride.gif

js33
10-06-2016, 05:35 PM
If you have time I would like to see some of your mograph examples. If one of the C4D examples can be done faster in LW I would like to see that.

js33
10-06-2016, 05:41 PM
sorry, skipping the example. already used to much time on this. maybe i'll get back to it, maybe even uploading some vidz on how to. we'll see. much to do.



No problem. Don't want you to feel pressured but if you have some unique methods of accomplishing C4D type stuff in LW I would like to see them when you can.

erikals
10-06-2016, 05:42 PM
at the moment, i have other LW things to do.
LW muscle simulation, mocap, FiberFX, etc etc etc... i'll give it a maybe.
but it's an example, depending, C4D is probably faster in 80% of the other Motion Graphics cases.

js33
10-06-2016, 05:46 PM
OK I would just like to see your approach to the problem. Not looking for a this is better than that. Don't really care which is better just the approach is all I want to see.

sellis
10-06-2016, 06:20 PM
I’m just a hobbyist in 3D that uses LightWave for fun so I understand this will get overlooked, but here goes anyway. If my sole income to support my family came from 3D, I’d be very upset with the lack of communication from LW3DG. Even if I use other software!

It seems once upon a time. LighWave was the ‘go to’ 3D software. Why? I’m sure you know why? Complete out of the box ‘Advanced’ one stop solution… Well over the years, 3D got advanced with other companies and 3rd party plugins that, the people wanting quality stuff, wanted! No more was there the one stop shop and LightWave fell behind.

Talented people wrote plugins for LighWave too, but ultimately the architecture that was LightWave was way behind limiting 3rd Party plugins! NewTek tried to address this problem with Core and well, you know the rest.
Many developers wrote plugins for the competition to further them while LightWave by now, was way behind. Even with talented developers that set new standards, like Worley’s for example, the competition had the same, better or similar over time, putting LightWave behind further.

Yes, Lightwave is very capable, as is Modeler for the ease of use. 3rd Party plugins help, LWCAD, Turbulence 3D, 3rdPowers, Worley, etc. That’s not in question. What is in question is the way LW3DG have gone quiet. Busy? I’m sure they are! Busting a gut to get the next release of LightWave out the door? I’m sure they are. Are they inventing new technology that puts Lightwave back to the ‘Go to’ software… I’m sure they want that and are trying… Do they want your custom? Yes of course. Do they relay confidence in your custom… ummmmmmmm NO!

Are you confident LW3DG will release, not only catch up software to the competition, but supersede it? Are you confident that you’ll pay your next bills in knowing LW3DG produced something so great that the user base will be huge again? Users flocking back towards supporting NewTek and LW3DG. Funding to enhance LightWave further?

As I mentioned, I’m a hobbyist who loves LightWave for its ease of use that was a one stop solution for my needs. It still is and I’ll upgrade anyway. I’m not a professional but the lack of communication to its very loyal user base is very poor regardless how busy they are. I see users fleeing just by reading these posts and phew, that’s not a good sign? Just because of the lack of communication to rebuild confidence again, so it seems.

Maybe I’m speaking out place here. I just feel the frustration of the users. Me included. All I know is, if my income came from 3D… Oh my I wouldn’t be at all pleased. A little goes a long way. LW3DG I ask you to give just a little? Not to me, to your users. You really do have a very loyal user base that’s very frustrated by your methods of silence. Some of them, that are dwindling away, rely on your next big release.

If I have spoken out of turn I apologise. Just feel that you should know, you may feel proud in your achievements to date, your users are very frustrated only from your silence.

jwiede
10-06-2016, 06:23 PM
https://youtu.be/X6B9LUeB3uc

js33
10-06-2016, 06:32 PM
Oh man that just says it all doesn't it.

MichaelT
10-06-2016, 06:39 PM
Oh I can top that one too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZQmOLxE7xQ

:)

Communication!

js33
10-06-2016, 06:58 PM
I liked jwiede's video better. It suits most of the viewers of these "news" threads.

MichaelT
10-06-2016, 07:21 PM
True.. but this was mostly geared towards LWG and their silence of course.

js33
10-06-2016, 07:41 PM
I think the LW3DG have taken the phase "Silence is golden" too literally.

"Silence is the element in which great things fashion themselves together; that at length they may emerge, full-formed and majestic, into the daylight of Life, which they are thenceforth to rule. Not William the Silent only, but all the considerable men I have known, and the most undiplomatic and unstrategic of these, forbore to babble of what they were creating and projecting. Nay, in thy own mean perplexities, do thou thyself but hold thy tongue for one day: on the morrow, how much clearer are thy purposes and duties; what wreck and rubbish have those mute workmen within thee swept away, when intrusive noises were shut out! Speech is too often not, as the Frenchman defined it, the art of concealing Thought; but of quite stifling and suspending Thought, so that there is none to conceal. Speech too is great, but not the greatest. As the Swiss Inscription says: Sprecfien ist silbern, Schweigen ist golden (Speech is silvern, Silence is golden); or as I might rather express it: Speech is of Time, Silence is of Eternity."

MichaelT
10-06-2016, 07:45 PM
And at the same time, the most valued metal in the nordics traditionally have been silver, and speech. How telling :)

jeric_synergy
10-06-2016, 09:29 PM
The C4D campaign clearly isn't working :)
LOL. --That's 'cuz they haven't played the "X-Particles" card yet.

But really, these threads ARE useless. I'd much rather read about what cool new technique Mark Warner has come up with, that we all could have been doing for years if we were JUST as clever as Mark. :cry: :thumbsup: ;)

Remember everybody, there IS an "Unsubscribe" button for every thread.

- - - Updated - - -


'Cos it's really, really crashy? I'll stick to 11.6.3, ta very much. ;)

See, a discussion of THAT would be worthwhile. Because, here, it rarely crashes.

Exclaim
10-06-2016, 09:42 PM
Why is there so much emphasis on Lightwave for MoGraph in this thread?

js33
10-06-2016, 09:50 PM
Why is there so much emphasis on Lightwave for MoGraph in this thread?Well that is partly my fault. Having never tried C4D before and being a long time LW user I started demoing C4D last week and was shocked at how easy a lot of things are in C4D compared to Lightwave. C4D and Lightwave have a similar history as they both started on the Amiga then moved to the PC and Mac later. C4D has continued to advance all this time while Lightwave hit a wall after the original programmers left to start Modo. Then we had the CORE which showed a lot of promise but was abandoned and since then LW development has been pretty stagnant while C4D has advanced. The mograph is just an example of the advanced tools that C4D has that Lightwave could have maybe had if development had not stagnated for the last 10 years.

Exclaim
10-06-2016, 10:35 PM
I don't know. MoGraph has always been the strong suit of C4D. It's like comparing Maya's polygon modeling tools to 3DSMax. 3DSMax will outperform Maya because 3DSMax has more tools for modeling. I think when you compare Lightwave3D with other software, you have to compare all of it's features. Other software will easily outperform Lightwave3D in one field or another, but I haven't seen one that does it all better than Lightwave3D. The things you can do with Chronosculpt and the 3rd powers tools, make Lightwave3D better than Autodesk products in some areas. I can understand your frustration with feeling Lightwave3D has stagnated in development though. But if LW3DG are improving Lightwave3D the way they say they are, then it hasn't stagnated at all.

Jaqen
10-06-2016, 10:50 PM
C4d started on Amiga?
I didn't know that for starters...so what's wrong with discussing everything 3D.

samurai_x
10-06-2016, 10:58 PM
Lightwave 2017 or 2018 release date.
Place your bets.

Lightwave 2019 it becomes the next xsi. :D

js33
10-06-2016, 11:04 PM
C4d started on Amiga?
I didn't know that for starters...so what's wrong with discussing everything 3D.

1991 - FastRay (CINEMA 4D's first name) is released for the Amiga.
1993 - CINEMA 4D V1 is released for Amiga.
1997 - The last version of Cinema 4D for Amiga, V4.2, is released.

Lightwave and C4D are like cousins that grew up together. It's just that one had parents that ran off and left Lightwave to live in a foster home while the others parents put him through college and helped him grow.

Jaqen
10-06-2016, 11:17 PM
...making it quite legitimate to discuss C4D's current status compared to LW.

js33
10-06-2016, 11:19 PM
Yes I don't see any harm in comparing how the hopefully new or current version of Lightwave compares to other software.

prometheus
10-06-2016, 11:31 PM
I would so like to make a sarcastic short ..animated in lightwave about this...with The lw logo in the nailed box and with the question.. where is lightwave now? but if I would start to work on it, youd bet lightwave would be released before its finnished, Im sure the lw team would just have a good laugh too, they got top men working on it too.

WHERE IS LIGHTWAVE NOW?...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdjf4lMmiiI

jeric_synergy
10-07-2016, 12:09 AM
Well, it's a rather easy place to find employment/gig opportunities. The combination of AE/C4D/Cineware is really potent.

While some of the typical mograph effects that are basic in C4D are possible in LW, lots of times you need extreme expertise to accomplish them (iow, Bryphii) , whereas a week in C4D would be enough to wow the yokels. Case in point: effing BEVELS. :eyeroll:

Even the cutdown version that comes free w/AE is quite potent, especially for text, an area in which LWG has covered itself in ignominy. And a LOT of corporate videos rely heavily on text.

It's possible that if you want to do a spaceship, or a submarine, LW would kick C4D's butt. But how often are clients asking for that? They want flying text, flying logos, particle effects, pizzaz. Just thinking about LW particle effects makes my teeth ache.

js33
10-07-2016, 01:06 AM
Yes thats it. Use the right tool for the job. There is no law that says because you use LW you can't also use C4D. While there is a lot of overlap there are areas that each excels in and the other is a red headed step child. C4D for any Mograph stuff and LW for vehicle and industrial modeling/animation. While Bryphi is a good example of pushing LW beyond its comfort zone there are very few of us that have the time or inclination to learn nodes to that degree when C4D can do the same things with ease. If I were to learn nodes in depth I would just use Houdini.

Where is Bryphi anyway? He was active for awhile but haven't seen him post lately. He probably got bored with all the where's next talk and went back to using Houdini.

Jaqen
10-07-2016, 01:14 AM
"no law" of course.
It's just that LW positions itself as a complete package.

js33
10-07-2016, 01:26 AM
Well "complete" depending on your needs. I would say use C4D/Maya for Mograph, Maya for Character animation, Houdini for fluid/volumetrics/destruction and VFX in general, LW for heavy industrial/mechanical animation and Modo for Modeling/UV.

Now if we just had one program that had the best of each one. Some would say Softimage was the closest to that goal but sadly it is in the history bin.

Jaqen
10-07-2016, 01:41 AM
No, "complete" as said by Rob Powers.

Marander
10-07-2016, 02:17 AM
It's possible that if you want to do a spaceship, or a submarine, LW would kick C4D's butt.

And why would that be, what makes you think it's better to create a space ship or submarine in LW than in any other package? Because LW was used in Babylon 5 or Seaquest 20 years ago?

Just think of LWs outdated fbx or missing opensubdiv support, lack of Substance integration, destructive workflow etc.

OlaHaldor
10-07-2016, 02:39 AM
yes, Modo is nice, but it's also sometimes not so nice. Depends on what one would want.
It's frickin' brilliant. Only thing I really miss is better Octane integration (awesome job Juan!), TurbulenceFD and some tools from LWCAD such as profiler and engraver, which is the reason I insist on having it installed both at home and at work.

jwiede
10-07-2016, 03:15 AM
i said i can replicate most of it, but not in the same manner.

read what i wrote, not what you think i wrote.

Actually, though, 50one raises a very relevant point: While LW might be roughly capable of many of the same MoGraph-y things C4D can do, LW's 3D text support is incredibly limited. When it comes to text effects and manipulation, the lack of dynamic 3D text generation (with animatable kerning support, etc.) becomes a major LW feature deficit. Without generating the text geo elsewhere, or converting to splines elsewhere (neither of which would represent a "LW solution"), I think you'd find yourself in serious trouble with all but the most basic mograph-y uses of 3D text.

Animated 3D text is such a commonly-used element in professional motion graphics, LW's deficits in that area are likely enough to kill its consideration for such work.

js33
10-07-2016, 03:54 AM
Yes LW has weak text abilities. Also since a lot of the functionality of modeler that would be needed for on the fly geo creation is locked away from Layout in a separate program which severely limits a lot of possibilities not to mention being able to change things easily.

zapper1998
10-07-2016, 04:17 AM
what would be nice....

All Newtek has to say is once a week ....... Da ...Ya think...


"We are here, yes we are, working hard, things are progressing well. Thank you for your patience."



Mike

js33
10-07-2016, 04:38 AM
Nah I think they get a kick reading all of our wild ideas and speculations.

erikals
10-07-2016, 04:41 AM
Yes LW has weak text abilities.
"Weak" is being nice about it.
i posted a video on that subject, LWG replied "They all need to go, and be replaced by one proper tool"

but they are busy, so it's not going to happen just yet.
not impossible that a plugin writer will supersede them. TrueArt made a plugin, but it's a bit limited.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqj8RIVX-W0

50one
10-07-2016, 05:34 AM
One tool to rule them all.

Exclaim
10-07-2016, 07:35 AM
And why would that be, what makes you think it's better to create a space ship or submarine in LW than in any other package? Because LW was used in Babylon 5 or Seaquest 20 years ago?

Just think of LWs outdated fbx or missing opensubdiv support, lack of Substance integration, destructive workflow etc.
Sorry but non of this is relevant. Modeling is modeling. You can create spaceships and hard surface vehicles in a number of programs. Open subdivision, and procedural modeling are tools some artist may use, but won't affect the artist ability to model something.

DrStrik9
10-07-2016, 07:47 AM
A long time ago, when I was doing concept and design work for a very large (global) company, one of its upper management guys came to my office for a visit, and he told me a very interesting story. He said that the company was changing for the better recently, making real progress in updating the way it did things, becoming progressive in its methods, etc., and that there are certain people within the structure of that huge company that secretly tie little strings onto critical parts of the business, and after time, they will tug those little strings, and everything will fall back to the way it all was done before. No progress, just "business as usual," "the way we've always done it." -- It was a profound and memorable conversation, and at the time, I wondered why he was telling me all this.

As I reflect on that day, it makes me wonder if something like this isn't happening inside NewTek LW3DG. It takes courage and vision to move a software company forward. But that is not possible if there are people inside that are pulling their little strings so no real (radical) progress can be made. -- Just a thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d15_GyMP3Yk

Marander
10-07-2016, 08:16 AM
Sorry but non of this is relevant. Modeling is modeling. You can create spaceships and hard surface vehicles in a number of programs. Open subdivision, and procedural modeling are tools some artist may use, but won't affect the artist ability to model something.

Yes these are minor things but what you say is exactly my point, it is not relevant in what package you model a space ship or submarine, it can be easier with some tools or the other, but definitively not something that LW would kick anybody's butt anymore.

Jeric's statement was: "It's possible that if you want to do a spaceship, or a submarine, LW would kick C4D's butt."

hrgiger
10-07-2016, 08:33 AM
Sorry but non of this is relevant. Modeling is modeling. You can create spaceships and hard surface vehicles in a number of programs. Open subdivision, and procedural modeling are tools some artist may use, but won't affect the artist ability to model something.

As someone who uses modeler a fraction of the time that I used to, I can assure you that modeling is not modeling. When you need to work easily with a few hundred thousand polygons or more in a scene, scale, move or rotate multiple objects around their own local space, change topology, or any other number of things which are difficult or just impossible to do in modeler, than you find that modeling is not modeling.

jeric_synergy
10-07-2016, 09:33 AM
Actually, though, 50one raises a very relevant point: While LW might be roughly capable of many of the same MoGraph-y things C4D can do, LW's 3D text support is incredibly limited. When it comes to text effects and manipulation, the lack of dynamic 3D text generation (with animatable kerning support, etc.) becomes a major LW feature deficit. Without generating the text geo elsewhere, or converting to splines elsewhere (neither of which would represent a "LW solution"), I think you'd find yourself in serious trouble with all but the most basic mograph-y uses of 3D text.
Just because nobody ever seems to talk about it: SENSEI/True Arts came out w/a Layout plugin that, in combination with DPKit or even pure native, can do IIRC text creation on the fly. It does a lot of clever and useful weight-mapping automagically too.

People complained and complained about the lack, but once it existed, crickets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow7Um2ks0Ek

MichaelT
10-07-2016, 09:52 AM
The problem with all these plugins is just that, these are functionality that in many cases really should be integral to begin with. I don't have a problem with plugins per se, I have a problem with support. If you rely on plugins then you are also handing faith of your product into the hands of strangers. By product I am talking about LW itself.

bobakabob
10-07-2016, 10:06 AM
Good post, Jeric. Morbid curiosity keeps bringing me back here against my will and I almost added Sensei's link. Whatever happened to basic research? Also comparing C4D to LW is rather unfair as the former requires a hefty financial investment and we've even had talk of adding extra plugins. LW has cost peanuts to maintain over the years.

jeric_synergy
10-07-2016, 10:25 AM
The problem with all these plugins is just that, these are functionality that in many cases really should be integral to begin with. I don't have a problem with plugins per se, I have a problem with support. If you rely on plugins then you are also handing faith of your product into the hands of strangers. By product I am talking about LW itself.
As we've seen, this is just as true of the main app, so I respectfully reject your stance on this.

And to the first part: "Shoulda, woulda, coulda" - it simply doesn't matter: the situation is what it is now. The question as an animator is "how will you work around it?".

Chris S. (Fez)
10-07-2016, 10:53 AM
Yup. Sensei's plugins are great and the community should support our precious few developers.

MichaelT
10-07-2016, 11:01 AM
As we've seen, this is just as true of the main app, so I respectfully reject your stance on this.

And to the first part: "Shoulda, woulda, coulda" - it simply doesn't matter: the situation is what it is now. The question as an animator is "how will you work around it?".

Just main app? No, both apps. But it is fine that you don't think this is a problem, but I do :)
Working around things, is exactly what we are all doing.

jasonwestmas
10-07-2016, 11:02 AM
Ok while I find the silence from LW3DG an utter load of crap, we've been hearing this argument for years and its bollocks. LightWave doesn't have to be Maya or even Modo, it doesn't have to be the main app in your pipeline (and I would argue at this point it would be silly to do that anyway) or used in a lot of high profile studios and the idea of 'catching up' is relative. Why can't you use LightWave Joe asks? Because Joe, the International brotherhood of forum posters says its not catching up! Again, bollocks. XSI was years ahead of LightWave in terms of scalability, flexibility and just raw power. Where is it today?

People will use LightWave or they won't. I notice a lot of people who say LightWave is dead or not 'keeping up' or sure stick around here for a long time to remind everyone else of it.

Righton, if lightwave is enjoyable to use and creates some nice images then it will continue to sell regardless of any other factors. I do think however it needs to offer some innovation here and there, otherwise I would'nt be fully honest I think.

prometheus
10-07-2016, 11:27 AM
The problem with all these plugins is just that, these are functionality that in many cases really should be integral to begin with. I don't have a problem with plugins per se, I have a problem with support. If you rely on plugins then you are also handing faith of your product into the hands of strangers. By product I am talking about LW itself.

I agree, its of course wonderful that there has been so many plugins by third party, and many free ..but some functions needs to get in to the spine of the core of lightwave.

Michael

erikals
10-07-2016, 11:40 AM
i am constantly looking at C4D / Modo / Maya...
but for my use, it just can't beat this >

in dollar,

LightWave------------700
3rd LW Brush---------170
3rd Cage Def---------200
Trueart Text-----------50
---------------------------
$1120
---------------------------

additional / optional
---------------------------
TurbulenceFD---------460
Syflex-----------------200
LWCad----------------350
RHiggit.---------------150
Houdini Indie.---------200
many more.....

---------------------------
LW upgrade-----------300


Cinema4D Studio---$3500   (studio would be the only option for me, and may others)
with that price, for those features, i'd rather go Maya subscription, thank you.
(and i hate subscription)
C4D Studio Upgrade--$650

madno
10-07-2016, 11:55 AM
:-)

Houdini Indie as optional "plug in" for LW. That's funny.
Love it

MichaelT
10-07-2016, 11:56 AM
i am constantly looking at C4D / Modo / Maya...
but for my use, it just cant beat this >

in dollar,

..

with that price, for those features, i'd rather go Maya subscription, thank you.
(and i hate subscription)

Which is why I have LW as well :)

I am still learning C4D however, and I also have Modo & Houdini.
As well as the Media and Entertainment Collection. The latter is temporary however.
I hate subscription too.

I probably will get c4d eventually. I will not let ignorance stand in the way of being
able to either do a job, or have a project of my own. I will use what I need to get the job done.

sadkkf
10-07-2016, 12:20 PM
Has anyone ever said LW Next is LW 2016?

erikals
10-07-2016, 12:29 PM
:-)    Houdini Indie as optional "plug in" for LW. That's funny.    Love it

true, the LightWave <> Houdini structure could easily, and perhaps more fairly, be reversed.   http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


Has anyone ever said LW Next is LW 2016?
it's been mentioned, but by 3rd party developers it's been referred to as LightWave 2017.
it's LightWave 2017. or perhaps, LightWave Next.

hrgiger
10-07-2016, 12:51 PM
LW Next makes no sense as a name for a released application, its an internal name only. Are they going to call the next one after that LightWave next after next?

Oedo 808
10-07-2016, 12:56 PM
Yeah, makes no sense. It ought to be called LightWave Cor (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/cor-blimey).

erikals
10-07-2016, 12:57 PM
Next v2

js33
10-07-2016, 01:04 PM
i am constantly looking at C4D / Modo / Maya...
but for my use, it just can't beat this >

in dollar,

LightWave------------700
3rd LW Brush---------170
3rd Cage Def---------200
Trueart Text-----------50
---------------------------
$1120
---------------------------

additional / optional
---------------------------
TurbulenceFD---------460
Syflex-----------------200
LWCad----------------350
RHiggit.---------------150
Houdini Indie.---------200
many more.....

---------------------------
LW upgrade-----------300


Cinema4D Studio---$3500   (studio would be the only option for me, and may others)
with that price, for those features, i'd rather go Maya subscription, thank you.
(and i hate subscription)
C4D Studio Upgrade--$650

C4D does have a rental option of $200/month if you only need it for a short time this is a good option.

By the time you add up LW plus all the options, which it needs to be competitive, you are at $2800. Then you are still stuck with a clunky hub workflow and outdated tools.

erikals
10-07-2016, 01:17 PM
By the time you add up LW plus all the options, which it needs to be competitive, you are at $2800. Then you are still stuck with a clunky hub workflow and outdated tools.
LightWave might be clunky often, but i'll assume Cinema4D is as well, based on threads, such as >
http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/forums/topic/88406-c4d-feedback-thread/?page=2#comment-598118

and yet, LightWave is in front in some areas.

C4D=Nice
C4D=Not for everybody

js33
10-07-2016, 01:27 PM
LightWave might be clunky often, but i'll assume Cinema4D is as well, based on threads, such as >
http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/forums/topic/88406-c4d-feedback-thread/?page=2#comment-598118

and yet, LightWave is in front in some areas.

C4D=Nice
C4D=Not for everybody

Sure every app will have issues but at least C4D is releasing new versions. R18 just came out. It is improving and they do communicate. Every app slows down under heavy simulations. I've tried things in Maya that didn't seem that heavy and it slowed to halt and locked up. I've tried some pretty heavy things in C4D and it slowed down but it held up and didn't shut down like Maya does. C4D also lets you display less info to the screen to avoid slowdown. In LW it can handle pretty heavy sims but I usually never get the results I want except for very simple rigid body stuff.

The first poster also said this:
20 years ago Lightwave was the no. 2 3D software in the business. Now it's an empty husk used only by oldtimers. It only takes a few versions of stagnation for customers to jump ship, no matter how invested in they are in the plug-in ecosphere.

I do agree C4D is overpriced as well as Maya/Max.

sadkkf
10-07-2016, 01:42 PM
LW Next makes no sense as a name for a released application, its an internal name only. Are they going to call the next one after that LightWave next after next?

Yup. "Next" is the name of the version currently being developed. When it's released, it will be given an official name. I just don't recall anyone ever saying the next release will actually happen this year.

erikals
10-07-2016, 01:44 PM
i'm just saying, for $3500 i'd expect Very good CA tools, with muscle simulation and great Cloth.

C4D Studio is far away from both features.

MichaelT
10-07-2016, 02:14 PM
Also regarding Softimage.. for modeling you can still use the free Softimage 7.5, that is available on the net. It was intended for modding, but it does have the modeling etc.. in there. And it is free.

Marander
10-07-2016, 02:16 PM
i'm just saying, for $3500 i'd expect Very good CA tools, with muscle simulation and great Cloth.

C4D Studio is far away from both features.

C4D has pretty good and easy to use CA tools (auto rigger, walk cycle, hair, cloth, constraints, IK, dynamics etc.) but certainly not up to Maya level. No big budget studio would probably use it for that, but for freelance or smaller studios I don't see a reason not to use it.

I think the bigger obstacle is to become an artist that can actually use those tools properly (in any package), like animation principles, anatomy know how, graph editing etc.

But C4D has other strengths and is used alot for effects like holograms, head up displays etc. (used in Star Wars, Hunger Games, Age of Ultron, Marsian etc.).

So depends what the requirement are, but for small production I think C4D offers a lot. And it easy and reliable and therefore so popular in most European graphic agencies. (just my personal observation and opinion). By the way, I got C4D with a discount as sidegrade from LW and was lucky to get it with the 30 anniversary 30% additional discount. Modo for example is 40% off right now. Something that is not really possible with subscriptions. LW is constant sale anyway, if the price goes up how they announced and all the plugins to add features like snapping (LWCAD) and sculpting (3rd Powers) etc. it doesn't look so bright again from a price perspective. And plugins are not the same like functionality that is built into the core.

LW with RHiggit Pro is also very good for CA, I like using it alot. Specially because it's in Layout where it belongs. But animation features, dope sheet and graph editor are much better in C4D in my opinion. Modo seems pretty nice either (poses etc.), so there are many options for CA (including LW + LW Next).

Marander
10-07-2016, 02:28 PM
i'm just saying, for $3500 i'd expect Very good CA tools, with muscle simulation and great Cloth.

C4D Studio is far away from both features.

By the way, your upgrade price for LW Next (according to LW3DG) will be $795 if I'm not mistaken, because you're not "current"...

http://www.cgchannel.com/2015/09/newtek-announces-new-lightwave-pricing/

erikals
10-07-2016, 02:36 PM
By the way, your upgrade price for LW Next (according to LW3DG) will be $795 if I'm not mistaken, because you're not "current"...
true, both C4D and LW forces one to stay current these days.
i'll be skipping LW2017 though, most likely, and go for 2018 instead.


But C4D has other strengths and is used alot for effects like holograms, head up displays etc. (used in Star Wars, Hunger Games, Age of Ultron, Marsian etc.).
Absolutely. if i did HUD design 24/7 i'd buy C4D for that reason alone in a snap.

Marander
10-07-2016, 02:52 PM
Our goal has been to ensure that LightWave will have the most modern architecture of any major 3D application driving it under the hood.

Just read these big words from Rob Powers again. If this would be true LW Next would really be amazing and blow all other apps away. Let's wait and see.

MichaelT
10-07-2016, 02:59 PM
“Our goal has been to ensure … that LightWave will have the most modern architecture of any major 3D application driving it under the hood.”

Just read these big words from Rob Powers again. If this would be true LW Next would really be amazing and blow all other apps away. Let's wait and see.

I certainly hope that is the case. But we'll see soon enough (i hope) :)

hrgiger
10-07-2016, 03:00 PM
“Our goal has been to ensure … that LightWave will have the most modern architecture of any major 3D application driving it under the hood.”

Just read these big words from Rob Powers again. If this would be true LW Next would really be amazing and blow all other apps away. Let's wait and see.

Well, every developer embellishes and everything is always the best when it comes to marketing speak.

But even if true, 'under the hood' only implies a solid foundation, tools, UI, and the UX still have to be built on top of that. As Rob said, Layout now recognizes modeling components like points, polys, and edges but modeling tools haven't been worked on for Layout for the next release.

Marander
10-07-2016, 03:05 PM
Well, every developer embellishes and everything is always the best when it comes to marketing speak.

But even if true, 'under the hood' only implies a solid foundation, tools, UI, and the UX still have to be built on top of that. As Rob said, Layout now recognizes modeling components like points, polys, and edges but modeling tools haven't been worked on for Layout for the next release.

Yes you're absolutely right. The thing that doesn't fit in for me (and kind of lowered my expectation for LW next) was the blog post about Torus2, Radial Array and Modeling Camera. This doesn't really fit, because if they have this kind of modern architecture underneath, new tools should be kick-***. OK, I know they are in Modeler and the new architecture is mainly in Layout but why developing them in the first place. That one blog post sort of destroyed my hope.

Edit: I want to add: I mean look what Viktor has developed recently, these cloning tools in LWCAD 5.2 are really nice (even within the limitations of Modeler). Imagine those in Layout (maybe even procedurally, and I'm sure Viktor would have been able to do that). Or just license and implement his tools in Modeler for the mean time instead of developing something subpar. Maybe Viktor was asked but not interested.

hrgiger
10-07-2016, 03:27 PM
Yes you're absolutely right. The thing that doesn't fit in for me (and kind of lowered my expectation for LW next) was the blog post about Torus2, Radial Array and Modeling Camera. This doesn't really fit, because if they have this kind of modern architecture underneath, new tools should be kick-***. OK, I know they are in Modeler and the new architecture is mainly in Layout but why developing them in the first place. That one blog post sort of destroyed my hope.

Well if one is expecting grand new tools in LW next, they should probably sit it out. I think its been pretty clear from the start that LW next represents laying foundation for a more modern LightWave. They already tried in version 9 to implement modeling tools in Layout and it didn't work because they tried to shoehorn them into the existing architecture. New PBR rendering, new volumetrics, new unified geometry engine... If that's really not enough for people (not pointing at you, just in general), then I think people have really unrealistic expectations. Unfortunately, even though it provides immediate benefits like the new volumetrics or faster deformations or quality renderer, I don't think you'll see the real potential of the changes in next until future versions. For instance, people really want weight painting and assignment directly in Layout. The Unified geo engine was necessarly first for that to happen.

Concerning the new modeling tools, it was mentioned by Rob that they were made so they could fairly easily be adapted to work in Layout when it comes to that.

Marander
10-07-2016, 03:37 PM
Well if one is expecting grand new tools in LW next, they should probably sit it out. I think its been pretty clear from the start that LW next represents laying foundation for a more modern LightWave. They already tried in version 9 to implement modeling tools in Layout and it didn't work because they tried to shoehorn them into the existing architecture. New PBR rendering, new volumetrics, new unified geometry engine... If that's really not enough for people (not pointing at you, just in general), then I think people have really unrealistic expectations. Unfortunately, even though it provides immediate benefits like the new volumetrics or faster deformations or quality renderer, I don't think you'll see the real potential of the changes in next until future versions. For instance, people really want weight painting and assignment directly in Layout. The Unified geo engine was necessarly first for that to happen.

Concerning the new modeling tools, it was mentioned by Rob that they were made so they could fairly easily be adapted to work in Layout when it comes to that.

Yes, I'm with you about the amount of improvements in LW Next and importance of a new architecture. I would have preferred if they said something like, look this release is all about Layout and architecture, no Modelling love this time but the new modeling tools in Layout in future releases will be state of the art.

If one needs good cloners or other nice tools in Modeler, there is LWCAD 5.2.

hrgiger
10-07-2016, 03:49 PM
Yes, I'm with you about the amount of improvements in LW Next and importance of a new architecture. I would have preferred if they said something like, look this release is all about Layout and architecture, no Modelling love this time but the new modeling tools in Layout in future releases will be state of the art.



Well more or less that's what Rob said. From the various blog posts:

"The next release of LightWave is not some final destination but it is really the beginning of an entirely new era for LightWave 3D and is grounded in very important architectural changes that will unlock so much potential for LightWave workflows and tools and that will allow us to innovate at a more rapid pace. As we move toward the next releases of LightWave our users will be able to do things in LightWave that will amaze them and give them the competitive edge."

"While this obviously is a great step forward under the hood and is going to form the foundation of what we do moving forwards, you are going to see the tip of the iceberg even in the next version of Lightwave, allowing us to have a true deformation stack that can be reordered, improvements to morph and deformation speed, and much more."

"The unified mesh system is an important architectural step in making it possible to develop mesh editing tools and other geometry manipulation and modeling tools directly within the LightWave Layout Environment. Of course, please understand that I am not saying that major modeling tool development has already happened but that the barrier that was preventing them from significantly being developed has now been removed. It is crucial to lay the architectural foundations first, and then after that is in place the new tools and workflows can be developed."

"However, I have always valued a realistic phased approach on projects and that is how we are developing LightWave. This means that you should not expect a fully replicated modeler or all of the power of ChronoSculpt to instantly appear in the next release. Those are clearly not realistic expectations but instead I am hoping to communicate the extreme importance of giving LightWave modern architectural updates and how that opens up so many more possibilities as we move forward."

All of these statements pretty much say to me this is a groundwork release, the benefits from this release come later.

js33
10-07-2016, 04:00 PM
If the new Layout will recognize points, polys and edges would it be possible to have something like LWCad in layout without waiting for a complete modeling toolset in Layout? Also if layout can create geo it may be possible to create a mograph plugin for it soon.

Exclaim
10-07-2016, 04:14 PM
Yes these are minor things but what you say is exactly my point, it is not relevant in what package you model a space ship or submarine, it can be easier with some tools or the other, but definitively not something that LW would kick anybody's butt anymore.

Jeric's statement was: "It's possible that if you want to do a spaceship, or a submarine, LW would kick C4D's butt."
Where Lightwave3D kicks C4D's butt is in animation, VFX, plug-ins, rendering, simulations and price. But yes like you said modeling alone is not a very good comparison for most software these days.

Marander
10-07-2016, 04:26 PM
Where Lightwave3D kicks C4D's butt is in animation, VFX, plug-ins, rendering, simulations and price. But yes like you said modeling alone is not a very good comparison for most software these days.

In my experience in both programs, the opposite applies except price.
- animation controls, dope sheet and graph editor, dynamic parenter are much advanced in C4D
- VFX, yes if LW Next Volumetrics rocks, C4D pyrocluster (similar to Hypervoxels) is outdated but...
- Plugins, there are so many great plugins in C4D like TFD, X-Particles, Effex, Forester, even free ones from Cineversity etc.
- So many render engines available, the Standard render is fast for me and Physical looks really good
- Simulations: C4D has by far the better Dynamics integration then LW
- Price yes

Just my personal opinion.

hypersuperduper
10-07-2016, 04:27 PM
Assuming they have been successful in re-engineering layout with the new geometry engine they will most likely add a few tools to fix longstanding problems. The modifier stack blog post indicated that they had already added a few new modifiers to make corrective morphs easier to make, they may have added add a few more since then. They have made it clear that we can't expect a full modeling environment within layout, but I would honestly be surprised if they didn't add a couple basic modifiers or nodes that do address some of the more glaring issues that layout with its limitations really can't do now. I'm thinking specifically of limited implementations of modifiers that generate geometry but don't really require much in the way of an interface. Text, extrude, or perhaps some kind of live Boolean. I mean, they must be really chomping at the bit to put that sort of stuff in now that they theoretically can. It would be weird if they didn't add SOMETHING that took advantage of the new geometry engine in a flashy way.

Marander
10-07-2016, 04:32 PM
Assuming they have been successful in re-engineering layout with the new geometry engine they will most likely add a few tools to fix longstanding problems. The modifier stack blog post indicated that they had already added a few new modifiers to make corrective morphs easier to make, they may have added add a few more since then. They have made it clear that we can't expect a full modeling environment within layout, but I would honestly be surprised if they didn't add a couple basic modifiers or nodes that do address some of the more glaring issues that layout with its limitations really can't do now. I'm thinking specifically of limited implementations of modifiers that generate geometry but don't really require much in the way of an interface. Text, extrude, or perhaps some kind of live Boolean. I mean, they must be really chomping at the bit to put that sort of stuff in now that they theoretically can. It would be weird if they didn't add SOMETHING that took advantage of the new geometry engine in a flashy way.

+1 yes that would be great

jwiede
10-07-2016, 04:52 PM
i'm just saying, for $3500 i'd expect Very good CA tools, with muscle simulation and great Cloth.

C4D Studio is far away from both features.

C4D's cloth and SBD support is actually very reliable, easy-to-use, and generally on par with C4D's _excellent_ Bullet HBD support (note: C4D SBD isn't Bullet SBD, they got it elsewhere).

Considering how well-regarded and lauded both Cmotion and C4D's Character Object integration are professionally, there clearly are areas where C4D's CA tools are highly competitive (likely why there are also pros using C4D for CA work). Sure, Maya's clearly ahead in many, many areas w.r.t. CA, but MAXON's also been investing a LOT of time, money, and effort staffing up C4D development teams these last few years.

jwiede
10-07-2016, 05:03 PM
Assuming they have been successful in re-engineering layout with the new geometry engine they will most likely add a few tools to fix longstanding problems. The modifier stack blog post indicated that they had already added a few new modifiers to make corrective morphs easier to make, they may have added add a few more since then. They have made it clear that we can't expect a full modeling environment within layout, but I would honestly be surprised if they didn't add a couple basic modifiers or nodes that do address some of the more glaring issues that layout with its limitations really can't do now. I'm thinking specifically of limited implementations of modifiers that generate geometry but don't really require much in the way of an interface. Text, extrude, or perhaps some kind of live Boolean. I mean, they must be really chomping at the bit to put that sort of stuff in now that they theoretically can. It would be weird if they didn't add SOMETHING that took advantage of the new geometry engine in a flashy way.

I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Choosing to perceive release delays as a basis for substantially _increasing_ delivery code feature expectations is... historically unwise (to be polite). Delays towards the end of release cycles are typically over quality concerns.

erikals
10-07-2016, 05:20 PM
C4D SBD HBD is way behind Maya, and without a $200 Syflex

the last option might change
https://vimeo.com/185905903

C4D dynamics are ok, nothing more.


MAXON's also been investing a LOT of time, money, and effort staffing up C4D development teams these last few years.
that's Very good, and i think that will please many.

bobakabob
10-07-2016, 05:25 PM
C4D's cloth and SBD support is actually very reliable, easy-to-use, and generally on par with C4D's _excellent_ Bullet HBD support (note: C4D SBD isn't Bullet SBD, they got it elsewhere).

Considering how well-regarded and lauded both Cmotion and C4D's Character Object integration are professionally, there clearly are areas where C4D's CA tools are highly competitive (likely why there are also pros using C4D for CA work). Sure, Maya's clearly ahead in many, many areas w.r.t. CA, but MAXON's also been investing a LOT of time, money, and effort staffing up C4D development teams these last few years.

Question: Why do you waste precious time frequenting the LW forums?

jeric_synergy
10-07-2016, 05:36 PM
Assuming they have been successful in re-engineering layout with the new geometry engine they will most likely add a few tools to fix longstanding problems.
I think it's best to compare existing capabilities, rather than imagined capabilities. "Assuming" and "most likely" are two big red flags to me.

+ in Erikals cost breakdown: I know it's donation-ware, but he should include some funds to go to Denis Pontiere.

erikals
10-07-2016, 05:44 PM
+ in Erikals cost breakdown: I know it's donation-ware, but he should include some funds to go to Denis Pontiere.
you know, i constantly have a DPont Donate link in my signature, i think that ought to be enough.

and yes, i should have done that.

and yes, i donated once again 5 days ago.

hypersuperduper
10-07-2016, 05:52 PM
I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Choosing to perceive release delays as a basis for substantially _increasing_ delivery code feature expectations is... historically unwise (to be polite). Delays towards the end of release cycles are typically over quality concerns.

I don't assume that the delays are due to them wanting to cram in new features at the last minute, just that they may have some stuff in the new version we dont know about. It just seems odd to tout a new geometry engine that can create geometry without actually having any tools that create geometry.

That said, It is possible that the delay could result in some added features that weren't originally planned. Considering this update is about a new foundation upon which great things can be built they surely have some proof of concept tools in some alpha or beta state rattling around the office. At a certain point, particularly if the bug fix burden is unevenly spread among the members of the development team, some proof of concept tool may well be added to this release.
Wishful thinking sure, but it has been several months, and I've seen more than a few last minute additions added to games that I have worked on.

hrgiger
10-07-2016, 07:53 PM
Question: Why do you waste precious time frequenting the LW forums?

John uses LightWave as well as C4D and Modo.

rustythe1
10-08-2016, 02:04 AM
I don't assume that the delays are due to them wanting to cram in new features at the last minute, just that they may have some stuff in the new version we dont know about. It just seems odd to tout a new geometry engine that can create geometry without actually having any tools that create geometry.

That said, It is possible that the delay could result in some added features that weren't originally planned. Considering this update is about a new foundation upon which great things can be built they surely have some proof of concept tools in some alpha or beta state rattling around the office. At a certain point, particularly if the bug fix burden is unevenly spread among the members of the development team, some proof of concept tool may well be added to this release.
Wishful thinking sure, but it has been several months, and I've seen more than a few last minute additions added to games that I have worked on.

there also the fact that they have to create the entire content directory, tutorials, help docs from scratch as the changes they have made cover most of the main elements of lightwave, and that probably could not be started until everything about the ui had been finalised.

robertoortiz
10-09-2016, 04:52 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?144546-The-NewTek-LightWave-3D-Group-is-pleased-to-announce-the-New-LightWave-2015-Release

MichaelT
10-09-2016, 05:21 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?150949-2-ads-with-Lightwave-Cows-and-Octopus&p=1482994&highlight=#post1482994


But time passes.. and irritation rises with ever shortening intervals. Giving birth is such hard time :)

gamedesign1
10-09-2016, 05:44 PM
there also the fact that they have to create the entire content directory, tutorials, help docs from scratch as the changes they have made cover most of the main elements of lightwave, and that probably could not be started until everything about the ui had been finalised.

I think that if it was as simple as that they would just post in the blog explaining that (or not). I dunno haha

erikals
10-10-2016, 09:58 PM
i seldom encourage smoking,...

...but i think we all need a Cigar when LightWave 2017 arrives.

Spinland
10-11-2016, 06:18 AM
i seldom encourage smoking,...

...but i think we all need a Cigar when LightWave 2017 arrives.

Heh. I'll have to settle for a dram of good Scotch.

50one
10-11-2016, 07:34 AM
Heh. I'll have to settle for a dram of good Scotch.

I might open a bottle of LR 27 years old that I've been keeping for a special occasion.

VonBon
10-11-2016, 10:02 AM
I would rather wait and have them bring the Heat,
than rush some BS out.

jeric_synergy
10-11-2016, 10:27 AM
Well, you got half of that wish for sure.

Oedo 808
10-11-2016, 10:59 AM
I might open a bottle of LR 27 years old that I've been keeping for a special occasion.

Lambrini?


I would rather wait and have them bring the Heat,
than rush some BS out.

Aye.

50one
10-11-2016, 11:56 AM
Lambrini?



Aye.

Nah, tend to buy Limited Releases from local distilleries, got one that is 27 yr.

Spinland
10-11-2016, 11:57 AM
I might open a bottle of LR 27 years old that I've been keeping for a special occasion.

Heh. Leave it to a Scot to be hard core about it. I'll just settle for my 15yo Old Pulteney.

MichaelT
10-12-2016, 05:32 AM
I think I will also have a wee bit of scotch when the new LW is out :)

pnelson
10-14-2016, 07:30 AM
i seldom encourage smoking,...

...but i think we all need a Cigar when LightWave 2017 arrives.

I'll join your for that one! HA!