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cove
10-03-2016, 02:57 PM
Previous Releases of Lightwave have come with pre-rigged characters
eg. piranhalien and Alien Emissary.

Would be great if there are going to be any more rigged figures in the "NEXT" Lightwave
that they be just plain ordinary [Hi Res] human figures.
One male one female both with simple clothing items.
Some of us cannot develope the required rigging skills so ready rigged
figures would be appreciated by many.
Thanks if you can provide these.

roboman
10-03-2016, 09:21 PM
Trying to edge Lightwave into the Daz/Poser market ? :)

cove
10-04-2016, 07:14 AM
Trying to edge Lightwave into the Daz/Poser market ? :)

Hi roboman.

Yes would be nice to have figures pre rigged with lots of shaping and muscle dials just like Poser figures. But will that
ever be a feature of Lightwave? Seems a logical step, given we already have Genoma riggs
for all kinds of figures, to have a Genoma version 2 with lots of pre rigged figures with shaping dials.
Genoma is great at what it does with its premade riggs but its time consumming to get things right.
Using Genoma i did rig a hand object successfully and all the fingers rotated ok in layout.
Then i tried rigging a complete human figure.
The arms hands legs feet worked ok but the main body parts from the waist up didn,t they distorted in
perculiar ways. Tried changing the position of the rigging points in modeler but no good.
As for the head i thought id got the rigg lined up ok but when i rotated the head in layout the head just distorted.
If the head rigg had only showed a slight distortion in layout it may of been fairly easy to correct. As it was to much
of a problem for me to know what to do about it i gave up.

Hence my request for a couple of pre rigged human figures so i and others can study the way the Genoma rigg looks
and how things are positioned.

PS. I do have Poser Pro 11 and Lightwave 2015.3
Both work great together but as you know you cannot change the geometry at all when a Poser scene is in Lightwave.
Wether this will change some time after the release of the "NEXT' Lightwave we can only wait and see.
Hopefully the next version of Poser will allow changing the geometry.

roboman
10-04-2016, 09:03 AM
googling "lightwave weight map tutorial" might help some.
http://www.rebelhill.net/html/shares.html Has some pre rigged stuff and a bunch of other great stuff on rigging. He even sells some rigging tools.
You can find some pre rigged Lightwave stuff around, but much of it is not free or even cheap. Most of the old rigging stuff still works, so if you dig up an old book or tutorial, it still likely is good info.
A long time ago DAZ just did models and sold Lightwave models. There isn't any good conversion tool, but there are lots of tutorials on exporting Poser and Daz models rigged over to Lightwave. I don't recall where, but there were some Vicky weightmaps for lightwave around that some one did.

I kind of understand the people who say using motion capture, bvh makes you not a real animator. I also kind of understand those who say using some one elses models is cheating. But really, I'm not going to build a custom female model because a product demo requires a female model to walk up holding some yet to be built product and then displays it. I'll use some DAZ/Poser Model and then a walk cycle from some where. I'll end up modifying things and doing some animating. But ya, life is short, I'm lazy, and to be honest the results come out better. Maybe if I had spent the thousands of hours modeling and tweaking I would be as good as some of the people selling stuff over at DAZ and Poser, maybe not. As is I'm one person trying to do a product demo in a few weeks of my spare time. So ya, having some models is a good thing.

I tend to export obj, but have also messed with fbx, from daz studio. Lots of tutorials around, none are perfect, most are probably better then I could do quickly here.

cove
10-04-2016, 01:17 PM
googling "lightwave weight map tutorial" might help some.
http://www.rebelhill.net/html/shares.html Has some pre rigged stuff and a bunch of other great stuff on rigging. He even sells some rigging tools.
You can find some pre rigged Lightwave stuff around, but much of it is not free or even cheap. Most of the old rigging stuff still works, so if you dig up an old book or tutorial, it still likely is good info.
A long time ago DAZ just did models and sold Lightwave models. There isn't any good conversion tool, but there are lots of tutorials on exporting Poser and Daz models rigged over to Lightwave. I don't recall where, but there were some Vicky weightmaps for lightwave around that some one did.

I kind of understand the people who say using motion capture, bvh makes you not a real animator. I also kind of understand those who say using some one elses models is cheating. But really, I'm not going to build a custom female model because a product demo requires a female model to walk up holding some yet to be built product and then displays it. I'll use some DAZ/Poser Model and then a walk cycle from some where. I'll end up modifying things and doing some animating. But ya, life is short, I'm lazy, and to be honest the results come out better. Maybe if I had spent the thousands of hours modeling and tweaking I would be as good as some of the people selling stuff over at DAZ and Poser, maybe not. As is I'm one person trying to do a product demo in a few weeks of my spare time. So ya, having some models is a good thing.

I tend to export obj, but have also messed with fbx, from daz studio. Lots of tutorials around, none are perfect, most are probably better then I could do quickly here.

You mention weight maps maybe that was the missing ingredient and why my rigging atempt with a character did not work completly.

I remember doing the weight maps for the hand i mentioned and that worked ok but did not do an weight maps for the character which was
just another layer of work you have to do, just to lazy to do it.
Never the less most of the figure still worked ok.
What i may try though is to only weight map the main body parts that did not work right and see if there is an improvement but i will leave
the head alone as that is a whole different learning curve.
I still have the original poser figure which i rigged so do not have to start all over again.

Will certainly check out------
"tutorials on exporting Poser and Daz models rigged over to Lightwave"
and
"Vicky weightmaps for lightwave"

Regarding bvh files.
Ive got loads of these. My main bvh folder has the CARNEGIE MELLON
collection of files [hundreds of files]. Great fun to play around with in poser especially dance moves. To see 6 different figures male and female
all with the same bvh dance file is great to watch them all doing the same dance in unison.

I see that Layout imports bvh files. Ill see if there is any reference in the manual and take it from there.

Thanks for all the added advice and comments much appreciated.

roboman
10-04-2016, 09:13 PM
Ya heads. I've rigged the eyes and eye lids sometimes. But even for those I tend to use morphs. Even the few anime type characters I did from scratch, I tend to do nearly all the head stuff as morphs. I was seldom happy with the looks I got with bones in the face. I'm sure a part of that is lack of skill..... Ya, you really need to weight map most if not all of the model. There are probably areas you can get away with not doing, but it's not that much effort to do the whole body and not wounder why a couple areas aren't moving days, weeks or months later.

Spinland
10-05-2016, 04:45 AM
You may be interested in RebelHill's tutorials on creating professional grade face rigs. I endorse them highly, and I understand there's a sale price at the moment.

http://rebelhill.net/html/rhfr.html

cove
10-05-2016, 08:00 AM
Ya heads. I've rigged the eyes and eye lids sometimes. But even for those I tend to use morphs. Even the few anime type characters I did from scratch, I tend to do nearly all the head stuff as morphs. I was seldom happy with the looks I got with bones in the face. I'm sure a part of that is lack of skill..... Ya, you really need to weight map most if not all of the model. There are probably areas you can get away with not doing, but it's not that much effort to do the whole body and not wounder why a couple areas aren't moving days, weeks or months later.

When i decide to try rigging a figure again ill use a new figure Poser M4 figure and apply all parts with weight maps as you advise.
Plus your method of using morphs on the head for eye/eyelids and lip movements sounds like a good alternative to me. LW Brush/grab tool should help a lot with morphs.
Looks as if i have a better approuch now to rigging a character.

cove
10-05-2016, 08:31 AM
You may be interested in RebelHill's tutorials on creating professional grade face rigs. I endorse them highly, and I understand there's a sale price at the moment.

http://rebelhill.net/html/rhfr.html

Thanks for the link to rebelhill tutorials.

Given that i aready had trouble with a Genoma head rig i don,t think i could cope with the more complex rigg and level of expertise shown in the tutorials link you provided.
Never the less i enjoyed watching the intro tutorials and seeing how experts do things.

prometheus
11-02-2016, 12:38 PM
Maybe the lw team need to buy/hire a third party developer.

Manuel Bastioni who worked with make human has made a special plugin (probably based on that) within blender, current version is for free in blender..which means you can spit them out of blender with rig and import to lightwave, I havenīt tried it that much though, have to check levels of detail since I thought they were to dense, but I may have missed setting options for that.

http://www.manuelbastioni.com/manuellab.php

cove
11-02-2016, 01:43 PM
Maybe the lw team need to buy/hire a third party developer.

Manuel Bastioni who worked with make human has made a special plugin (probably based on that) within blender, current version is for free in blender..which means you can spit them out of blender with rig and import to lightwave, I havenīt tried it that much though, have to check levels of detail since I thought they were to dense, but I may have missed setting options for that.

http://www.manuelbastioni.com/manuellab.php

Thanks for the info on this new plugin for blender.
Although i cannot use blender very well at the moment ill be focusing all my attentioin for now on seeing what this plugin provides and how usefull the figures are in Lightwave.

prometheus
11-02-2016, 03:18 PM
Thanks for the info on this new plugin for blender.
Although i cannot use blender very well at the moment ill be focusing all my attentioin for now on seeing what this plugin provides and how usefull the figures are in Lightwave.

yeah..it takes a bit of time to get comfortable with blender, It took me several times of opening and closing blender in frustration until I overcome it and now can do something useful with it.
This is still a plugin under development and you may be better of waiting and see how it goes, I may be able to look in to it and see how the blender-to lightwave pipeline works, I think my latest update of this plugin was faulty, that was on 2.76, I got the newest blender install on another machine and will have to try there as well.

Otherwise I would recommend just go with daz studio and fbx support, preferably using the genesis figures to avoid rigs not working properly..since other figures may be set up completly different

cove
11-02-2016, 05:45 PM
Have been playing about with this new plugin for blender for a couple of hours now and its great at what it does. Plenty of charactors can be created and exported for
use in Lightwave but there does not appear to be an option to export figures fully rigged! Maybe a later version will allow you to do this.

one thing to note------
Regardless of which pose your figure has in blender eg. leaning back/sitting etc the exported file into Lightwave always shows as a standed pose [standing upright/legs apart/arms
outstretched] and not the sitting pose that i chose at one stage.

Have not explored everyting in this new plugin so will do a bit more testing tomorrow.

Quote
"I would recommend just go with daz studio and fbx support"

I do have Daz Studio so will try your fbx export suggestion and see what
the result is.
PS.
I already have Poser Pro 11 and the plugin to allow exporting Poser
figures/scenes into Lightwave and it works fine.

Would still like Lightwave "NEXT" to have some pre-rigged figures.

prometheus
11-03-2016, 12:10 PM
Have been playing about with this new plugin for blender for a couple of hours now and its great at what it does. Plenty of charactors can be created and exported for
use in Lightwave but there does not appear to be an option to export figures fully rigged! Maybe a later version will allow you to do this.

one thing to note------
Regardless of which pose your figure has in blender eg. leaning back/sitting etc the exported file into Lightwave always shows as a standed pose [standing upright/legs apart/arms
outstretched] and not the sitting pose that i chose at one stage.

Have not explored everyting in this new plugin so will do a bit more testing tomorrow.

Quote
"I would recommend just go with daz studio and fbx support"

I do have Daz Studio so will try your fbx export suggestion and see what
the result is.
PS.
I already have Poser Pro 11 and the plugin to allow exporting Poser
figures/scenes into Lightwave and it works fine.

Would still like Lightwave "NEXT" to have some pre-rigged figures.


yes. I noticed itīs not working directly with the fbx export, exporting to obj will get your pose correct but then you would only have the object.
What I see in lightwave after fbx import, the bones are not assigned to their corresponding weightmaps, which they would need...so we have to check the fbx exporter in blender, it has some option we need to check if something is overiding or is missing.
Otherwise blender might need a newer fbx exporter, perhaps some addon that is out there.

so that is where we can start work to track down that issue.

Poser I havenīt used for ages, the difference is that daz fbx export will let you export with bones to edit in lightwave, not as a host as poser does, and you can export animations from daz with animate or your own poses, or import bvh files to das, there is a lot of bvh files to use with daz then export to lightwave, you can also on top of the animations actually edit it with ik booster.

You would probably need to remove some parent items in the exported daz fbx file, two items that would interfere and not making ik, booster working.
I have that noted somewhere, I also created a thread called Lightwave-daz pipeline or something, so if it isnīt there I will put that up later.

cove
11-04-2016, 02:12 PM
I did try the Daz fbx export with Genesis 3 figure which loaded into Lightwave ok but minus any rig/bones.

Maybe the blender figure plugin maker needs to consider providing an export function in a future update that carries with it a charactors rig.
This maybe a better option than waiting for blender to update there fbx exporting feature.

Im hoping that one day Poser will develope an exporter that exports a
proper Lightwave scene were the scene is not just hosted but were you have
further control over motions and the figure can interact with other objects in the scene but this may not be possible.

As for bvh files. Ive got hundreds of them and work best on the early poser figures.
Did have a go at importing bvh files into Lightwave which imported ok
but had a lot of trouble trying to associate a bvh file to a figure so gave up.

Quote.
"I also created a thread called Lightwave-daz pipeline"

I would be interested in reading this if you happen to come across it but don,t worry if you cannot find it.

prometheus
11-04-2016, 08:17 PM
I did try the Daz fbx export with Genesis 3 figure which loaded into Lightwave ok but minus any rig/bones.

Maybe the blender figure plugin maker needs to consider providing an export function in a future update that carries with it a charactors rig.
This maybe a better option than waiting for blender to update there fbx exporting feature.

Im hoping that one day Poser will develope an exporter that exports a
proper Lightwave scene were the scene is not just hosted but were you have
further control over motions and the figure can interact with other objects in the scene but this may not be possible.

As for bvh files. Ive got hundreds of them and work best on the early poser figures.
Did have a go at importing bvh files into Lightwave which imported ok
but had a lot of trouble trying to associate a bvh file to a figure so gave up.

Quote.
"I also created a thread called Lightwave-daz pipeline"

I would be interested in reading this if you happen to come across it but don,t worry if you cannot find it.

What? no bones and rig?..hmm, not sure, I am still on daz 4.03.47 pro, which means that may be the older genesis versions, unfortunatly the newer policy and installation workflow with daz made me keep this version, from that on they changed to online installation that installs over older version which I didnīt like, so I havenīt updated since then.

but exporting from 4.03.47 should work fine with all bones.

prometheus
11-04-2016, 08:20 PM
hereīs the Pipeline for daz to lightwave, times like these i scratch my head wondering why the webmasters havenīt listen to my suggestions on a full on PIPELINE SECTION, With subsections of Lightwave-Daz, lightwave-sketchup, lighwave-modo, lightwave-vue
lightwave-terragen, lighwave maya etc, as it is now, any such thread and question coul live anywhere in support, general questions etc..so put the puzzle pieces where they belong, sure there would be many subsections, but mabye easier to find your choice of pipeline when you need it.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?125710-PIPELINE-DAZstudiopro4-LIGHTWAVE&highlight=daz+pipeline

fishhead
11-05-2016, 05:34 AM
Loads of stuff to digest in that thread... :-]

But I am wondering: is there anyone who toyed around with this already:
http://www.liberty3d.com/2016/07/the-daz3d-to-lightwave-motion-capture-utility/

looks as it could be the slickest solution for a daz3d -> LW workflow to date.
Judging by the video it seems to offer quite a lot of options to adjust the mocap to your liking, also.

cove
11-05-2016, 08:20 AM
Thanks for 2 further posts. [Image attatched]
I did have an earlier version of DAZ [4.6] installed opened it up but there was no content installed with it. Id not got around to installing the content.

However there is good news and im glad you provided the link to the "Pipeline for daz to lightwave" as the resolution to having bones show in lightwave was there.
Like a responder in the thread i to had loaded the fbx file via Lightwaveload object which resulted in just the figure object.

When i then loaded the fbx file via load scene the figure shows with bones.
[Had to smile at the way the bones show. Figure looks as if someone has thrown darts at him [Ouch!!].

Anyone veiwing the image don,t be decieved by the few bones that are seen.
I opened up the Scene Editor to show that ALL joints are editable.

I did think i had an issue with the missing textures for the eyes and eye lashes but there is an answer to that also in the "Pipeline for daz to lightwave" posts. Will try that also

Ive not read all the info yet in this file been to busy trying the load fbx scene and moving joints.
Im made up that i can now do this.

Once again you have helped resolve an issue. Thanks

prometheus
11-05-2016, 12:50 PM
Thanks for 2 further posts. [Image attatched]
I did have an earlier version of DAZ [4.6] installed opened it up but there was no content installed with it. Id not got around to installing the content.

However there is good news and im glad you provided the link to the "Pipeline for daz to lightwave" as the resolution to having bones show in lightwave was there.
Like a responder in the thread i to had loaded the fbx file via Lightwaveload object which resulted in just the figure object.

When i then loaded the fbx file via load scene the figure shows with bones.
[Had to smile at the way the bones show. Figure looks as if someone has thrown darts at him [Ouch!!].

Anyone veiwing the image don,t be decieved by the few bones that are seen.
I opened up the Scene Editor to show that ALL joints are editable.

I did think i had an issue with the missing textures for the eyes and eye lashes but there is an answer to that also in the "Pipeline for daz to lightwave" posts. Will try that also

Ive not read all the info yet in this file been to busy trying the load fbx scene and moving joints.
Im made up that i can now do this.

Once again you have helped resolve an issue. Thanks

Ahh...a typical misguide, you opened in modeler and not layout, so yes..modeler will not bring in bones from that..only layout.
And yes, I know..the bone rotation looks funny, I recall that as well the first time I used it, what I do is to import with the lightwave joints, not bones when you get the requester, that will get you good looking bones following the figure.



Another thing ..I usually select the transformer standin bone, and the bone named genesis (not the genesis shape) and delete those two as well, you will get a popup asking to delete descendents as well, do not delete the descendents, click no on that, so you have to delete twice and just those, that way if you use IK booster, the rig should follow properly, if you donīt it will not follow properly.

for surfaces, for all transparent maps, you need to load them manually from the folder with textures, they are there but just not automaticly assigned as the others, once loading eyelashes for instance, you need to invert the map, and it should then be ok, so load your eyelash texture in the transparency channel and look for the map that has that texture, then invert it, turn on vpr to see it properly, also change to uv map and select the model uv, the uv map is one only for all textures.

You would also need to correct the cornea, it needs transparency some reflection, so maybe 100 transparency..the other surfaces should mostly be okey and set up, but you would probably like to lower glossiness and specularity, for use with ss skin, you would have to enter nodes and per surface add it all, that takes a bit of time though, I recommend skip that till you know the basics.

Once that is right, and you can pose the rig properly with fk or ik booster, we may look at getting the animation in right as well, walk cycle etc...or walk in place, you would have to lock the hip in daz for that, and you need to be aware of how to switch from animate and bake it to studiokeyframes, genesis figure wal has toes pointing up to the sky, so you need to adjust that foot angle in daz as well.

Standard shape morphs should work, facial morphs etc, or going from fat to slim and then if it is included in the animation export, you would have endomorphs in lightwave set up in the displacement tab for that.

quite easy to use pre animated punch, import to lightwave, parent a null to the hand bones ..and make it a kinematic bullet force and let it hit a wall and break it :)

prometheus
11-05-2016, 03:01 PM
Loads of stuff to digest in that thread... :-]

But I am wondering: is there anyone who toyed around with this already:
http://www.liberty3d.com/2016/07/the-daz3d-to-lightwave-motion-capture-utility/

looks as it could be the slickest solution for a daz3d -> LW workflow to date.
Judging by the video it seems to offer quite a lot of options to adjust the mocap to your liking, also.

Yes, it might be nice..I havenīt investigated much on that exactly.
I want to wait and see what lw2017 brings first..and check how the export works as it is today, what is broken or not.

For those working with some projects or in a small studio it may be of value right now, but not for me since I will be working on non related stuff for a while.

The tutes that Ryan presents, seems very well done, and he explains very clearly and with great afterthough on the topics, so those tutes I might get ..but as said, not until Lw 2017 comes out..I have no desperate need for it, other than for fun.

cove
11-05-2016, 04:07 PM
Thanks for further usefull advice prometheus .
Will have to reply more tomorrow as getting late here.
Bye for now.

cove
11-06-2016, 05:12 AM
Thanks for further usefull advice prometheus .
Will have to reply more tomorrow as getting late here.
Bye for now.

Tried "lightwave joints" and it does look a lot better.

Before seeing your last post reply i had a go at creating a simple keyframed animation. [which id never done before in Daz]. Just a few arm and leg movements.
Exported anim scene as fbx. Loaded scene into Lightwave and there was my simple anim playing ok.
Then tried an anim with a few Anim blocs and this second anim worked in Lightwave also.
This was not as straight forward/simple to do as ive had to quickly learn the animation basics in Daz.

When i next try animating in Daz ill impliment the advise you have given.

Quote.
"Another thing ..I usually select the transformer standin bone, and the bone named genesis (not the genesis shape)"

Thanks for reminding me that best to remove certain bones and naming the particular bones.

Quote.
"parent a null to the hand bones/break a wall"
Definatly going to try this as if it works then opens up all kinds of possibilities.

However what ever Genesis figure [base/2/3] you load into Lightwave there is an issue with the eye textures as follows----



Cornea and eyelashes [add textures] turn transparency to 100%

Genesis 1 base male ok cornea and eyelashes show ok
Genesis 2 female. cornea textures do not show. Eyelashes do show ok.
Genesis 3 male. cornea textures do not show. Eyelashes do show ok.

Seems only Genesis 1 [basic] figures will show eye textures [Transparencey 100%] unless you can advise dfferently but id be perfectly happy with Genesis 1 basic.
[I could put a pair of sun glasses on G2 and G3 figures to hide the eyes]. :)

Edit.
Tried applying genesis 1 eye textures to genesis 2 but these also did not show.

fishhead
11-06-2016, 08:39 AM
In regards to eye surfaces: have you checked all the layers the eye consists of? Is it possible that one of these layers is just blocking the visibility of the others lying beneath? You adjusted Cornea already but what about EyeReflection for instance?

prometheus
11-06-2016, 12:09 PM
not sure which is genesis 1 and 2 or 3? using daz 4.0.3.47 ..but which version it is called I donīt know which is what actually.

Anyway, my eyes have the cornea as unique surface, needs 100% transparency and it is the area that covers the iris.
The sclera is only the surface polys that is the rest of the eye, the eyeball and veins etc, that should be reflective a lot and glossy, doesnīt need transparency in this case since it doesnt affect thecornea and iris.
Iris need to have a lot of diffuse, I think it may be at zero, so itīs why it wont show even if cornea is transparent.
Lacrimal and tear isnīt interfering so those shouldnīt be an issue ..they are separate objects.

Now..depending on what genesis figure you have, open the figure in modeler, save a copy..delete everything else except the eyes, and check the surfacing in modeler..try varius luminiosity and diffuse channel and see what affects what, and with that you should be able to make note on what should be transparent etc.

So for the iris texture to show, you need 100% diffuse on that, and make sure the cornea is transparent to some degree.

The pupil is also separate surface polys, that lives inside the cornea, so it is deformed inwards, while the cornea is covering it, so the pupil, should be non transparent and quite black.

Spinland
11-06-2016, 01:36 PM
In regards to eye surfaces: have you checked all the layers the eye consists of? Is it possible that one of these layers is just blocking the visibility of the others lying beneath? You adjusted Cornea already but what about EyeReflection for instance?

Yes, I second this notion. I recall from past experiments that DAZ and Zygote models often had at least one extra transparent sphere in the eye assembly for spec and reflec hits and suchlike. I would often delete stuff to simplify them, the LW materials and rendering seeming to be more than good enough for what I was after.

cove
11-06-2016, 03:31 PM
Quote.
"not sure which is genesis 1 and 2 or 3? using daz 4.0.3.47"

Have provided an image of how the Genesis figures in my Daz 4.9 looks.
Don,t Know what figures are present in your version so hope my image helps you decide which is which.

Quote.
"In regards to eye surfaces: have you checked all the layers the eye consists of?"
Yes but in a random fashion but got no good result

I did at one point try altering the parameters of different parts of the eye the eg. transparency/diffusion etc.
Even tried a totally different random texure just to see if i could get anything to appear on the eye but no good.

When you have Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 [or 3] loaded into layout and before applying any eye textures what you see is-----
Genesis [basic] with the outer part of the eye colored a lightish grey but also showing a hint of texture [veins etc]
The main big circle area in the middle of the eye shows as pale grey with a thin black border.
Im only discribing this in detail because in contrast the Genesis 2 eyes are solid white right across the whole eye with no other features showing.

The rest of your reply involving checking out eye parts and which needs/has transparency etc is quite a bit to take in and test out.
Your suggestion to delete the body will make it easier to check the
eyes out.
Maybe some time trying things out. Will get back to you as soon as can.

cove
11-06-2016, 04:20 PM
Hi again. Just a quick update.
Got some good news Genesis 2 eye textures now show.
There was an extra outer sphere which when i deleted it and applied the textures to the underlying
assemble [Cornea] the eyes showed fully textured. Only had to adjust the transparency.
Will say more and provide a picture tomorrow.
Bye for now.

prometheus
11-06-2016, 04:40 PM
Hi again. Just a quick update.
Got some good news Genesis 2 eye textures now show.
There was an extra outer sphere which when i deleted it and applied the textures to the underlying
assemble [Cornea] the eyes showed fully textured. Only had to adjust the transparency.
Will say more and provide a picture tomorrow.
Bye for now.


Yep..mine are genesis 1 only.

and I figured the new ones may have an additional sphere that is there to only serve as reflection or glossiness, but transparent.

when you try and check the model in modeler, if you just use a copy object to do whatever you want without destroying any original pieces..you can fiddle round and test materials and make notes, but if you want to adjust on original object, you can select the body and some other parts and select connected, then in view, hide selected.

I have my select connected mapped as shortcut "c" for easy referencing in the brain to connected, so I just select some body parts, and hit c, then hide, continue to do so until only eyes is visible, the other way aroun may work..but may also not, if you try and select only the eyepoly, and the hide unselected, that means some inside polys in the eye might get hidden if there is that.

cove
11-07-2016, 03:33 AM
With your suggestion prometheus to check for any extra parts [eye sphere] and backed up by fishhead and Spinlands comments the first thing i did was
to isolate the eyes and to select/highlight what turned out to be an extra eye sphere.
I innitially chose "View/Hide Selected" polygons of this sphere.
This action showed the rest of the eye parts and the basic but mostly faint underlying textures.
I then chose to unhide this sphere and reselected its polgons again and deleted the sphere. Then applied the textures to the eyes
The reason for deleting this sphere was that if you have the Genesis figure loaded into Layout, [which i did with second test], first then select the figure
then select to go to modeler the figure will then appear in empty modeler views automatically. Any changes you make in modeler to textures or the object
will be reflected in layout the next time you go back into layout.
In my case obviously id added the eye textures and deleted the extra outersphere and these changes updated/showed in layout.

Incidently the eye surface [with outer sphere removed] generally does have by default some degree of reflection as you can see the layout light move
on the eye suface when you rotate the figure so maybe this outer sphere is not actually needed but will try the figure out with extra sphere still in place as you say-----
Quote.
"additional sphere that is there to only serve as reflection or glossiness, but transparent"

Maybe there to provide stronger highlights if needed.

Anyway looks as if all issues resolved now.

My simple original request to have Pre-rigged human figures in "NEXT" Lightwave has resulted in my gaining knowledge about exporting fbx files
in DAZ using these files in Lightwave and even doing animation in DAZ and Lightwave in a way that ive not done before. Yes ive certainly gained a lot.

Any chance of my joining you prometheus during your couple of months away from the forum as ive spent so much time in Daz Studio and Lightwave these last few
days that i could do with a rest from it all.
Ive started to have nightmares now [eyes coming at me out of the dark]. :)

PS. Did not feel the need to provide an image as text i think is sufficient.

prometheus
11-07-2016, 10:00 AM
Any chance of my joining you prometheus during your couple of months away from the forum as ive spent so much time in Daz Studio and Lightwave these last few
days that i could do with a rest from it all.
Ive started to have nightmares now [eyes coming at me out of the dark]. :)

PS. Did not feel the need to provide an image as text i think is sufficient.

:D
Yes, spending a lot of time until you get dreams..nightmare or better ones is the way to go, so during sleep the process you have gone through will be imprinted in your brain for better access another time.
And yeah...after that itīs good to leave it alone so you donīt puke on it, then get back with more fresh eyes another day...and you will realize you have been building bridges to expand your own skills, which probably will open up more opportunities for you.

Just had my first day working with administration duties, so I donīt have that much energy over this early in the week, maybe during the weekend, this job will probably only extend till christmas, with a chance of extended employment so I should focus on that and not on 3d right now, itīs not as fun as 3d, but it pays the bills.

Quick tip, if you do not have acess or can afford any commercial fluid solution, but want your figure to smash something and make dust or fall through a roof with dust, or put the figure on fire, you can mdd bake lightwave bullet dynamics, and in blender load the mdd files for your exported object, you would have to export the object ofcourse, then use import mdd in blender, the breaking pieces will respond to fire and smoke fluids in blender, at least that should work to do renders directly in blender, if you would want to render just smoke and fire and the rest in lightwave, that would be a workflow I havenīt checked though, guess you should render out a matte object in blender when it is used with smoke and fire.

smoke and fire can be a bit tricky in blender though if you havenīt used it, and the shading is even harder.


Michael

cove
11-08-2016, 06:52 AM
Yes the subconscious mind/activity and sleep time certainly can and does accasionally resolve issues and problems.
Ive had eurika moments many times in the past at a time when i was very interested in all things philosophical which can cover a broard range of subjects.
Some of which you have discussed on the forum.

I think we should start a new thread titled
"Lightwave Philosophical Society"
then you me and others can discuss anything we want without being told we are off topic. :D

Seriously though and back on topic.
Quote.
"Quick tip, if you do not have acess or can afford any commercial fluid solution " etc.

As i may of mentioned elswere i did not get on to well with blender but did find it suprisingly easy to create and play with there fluid and smoke
feature. Changing parameters to get a better looking water or fire/smoke would have been to time consuming.
From time to time i do open blender and try to learn a bit more.
If i ever get comfortable with blender ill try out your suggestion to try bullit phyisics/load mmd into blender etc. Could be fun to try this out.
Fluids is much needed in Lightwave. Maybe sometime after "NEXT" release.
Meantime ive seen a post on the forum about a new plugin
"Forum: LW - Third Party Deep Rising Fx: Potential fluid simulator "
Both plugins mentioned in this post are still in development so will keep an eye on this.


Something that you may find interesting.
I tried out the trial version of Turbulence FD a while ago just for the hell of it.
As you know you can have any object in the layout scene be made an emitter.
At one point i wonderd if an animated item could emit flames and smoke and animate objects can of coarse emit flames.
But then i thought id import into layout an animated scene from my poser software to see if the V4 figure [Doing a walk ] would emit flames
while walking having chosen her to be an emiter object.
Keep in mind that poser scenes are only hosted in lightwave with no interactivity with other lightwave effects.
But after i set the shape of the container to be the same length as the walk cycle [temperature set to 1] and then pressed the process button.
I was very suprised to see V4 emit flames which trailed behind her the full length of the container.
I fully expected the flame to remain at the starting point of the V4 walk cycle and V4 to walk with no flames being emited from her.
The effect looked really good.
Ive discribed the above in case anyone else wants to give it a try.
PS.
Did do this same test again before posting this text got same result.

Finally something ive forgotten to mention to you before now.

I did try your suggestion too attatch a null object to the hand bone of an animated figure created in DAZ and imported to Layout and have the
figure knock a wall down via bullit physics. Im pleased to say that it worked great.
I was so confident that your suggestion would work that i went to some trouble in Daz Studio to have a figure do a brief martial arts motion.
Figure starts off in a karate stance standing upright with fists clench at his side. Then all the figure does is move rapidly foreward hips lower and
punching forward. Loaded the resulting fbx anim into Lightwave.
Then created a window frame with a fractured pain of glass.
Lined both items up set up bullit physics for both items and added a null/sphere to the figures hand bone. Then i clicked the animation button and
i watched the figure punch through the glass pain the glass shattered then the figure returned to its original stance. [The return to original stance
was a bit more animation i did after loading fbx file into layout].
I think ill try next attatching a null to a genoma rigged figure bone as i Rigged a poser imported figure.
Should work ok.
Enough said i think.

PS. Don,t expect any kind of response to this as you are now working and hope things work out for you.
Given your absence for a while at least id like to wish you at this time a happy Christmas and a great New Year. :beerchug:

prometheus
11-08-2016, 11:52 AM
Hi Cove!

Our own philosophy threads...Yeah, itīs an interesting topic, and Yeah..I think I recall some discussions..vaguely.
Unfortunatly it wouldnīt be as easy as creating a thread and just take our chances with it all being on topic..it may be on topic for the threads we create, but it would probably be Really off topic for forum rules.

Now the newtek moderators have really been quite tolerant ..even if we start discuss topics of evolution, astronomy, cosmology, philosophy, science etc, catīs etc..and to some extent religion, itīs when it reaches the land of politics, or religion Specificly dealing with those issues that it seem to become forbidden land, and I think that is a wise approach, I mean..everything almost have a connection to politics, and you are most likely to have a standpoint refering to religion.

So every now and then we may spin off to the land of politics, or religion...and they have been tolerant as long as you donīt pursue that as a specific topic and as long as the thread isnīt building up momentum with such intent.

If you however start a thread or spinoff in a thread in some kind of election campaign, I would guess that would be shut down quite fast.

Glad to see some of the suggested dynamic approaches seem to work, personally I will probably not try poser hosted scenes since I donīt got poser and I am not going to invest either in it.

Yeah, blender fluids, I have a lot to try there.
There is the fluid shading with materials and nodes that I am not fond of, and the process of adding object, making it a smoke domain, adding another object, make it a fluid smoke object...I would like to see add fluid container and make fluid emitter directly without going through changing settings for type of smoke object, in that sense turbulenceFD for lightwave is easier to start with.

Yes, I am tired after work...but a little energy is left to wish early Merry Christmas to you too and a happy new year, though I am sure I will respond more before those days, and I think I will get some time to fiddle a little more with fluids and dynamics during the upcoming weekend, currently I am testing a bit with collsion objects and fluids in blender...just some minutes here and there.

Cheers
Michael

SBowie
11-08-2016, 12:57 PM
So every now and then we may spin off to the land of politics, or religion...and they have been tolerant as long as you donīt pursue that as a specific topic and as long as the thread isnīt building up momentum with such intent.There are a lot of factors involved. I wish it were not so but some topics, despite best intentions, are ultimately going to be flame bait. Experience has proven that, while many can handle a civil conversation on almost any subject, others find it impossible. Sometimes a single post that would be inoffensive by itself, is nevertheless sure to foster a discussion that will go off the rails in a very short time. Other times a mature group is able to go quite some time without a problem - until ...

Then there's the matter of timing. Just now, in this country, dropping the names Clinton or Trump into any thread virtually guarantees it will spin out of control within about an hour. Rather than fret, please just enjoy the respite from cacophony.

prometheus
11-08-2016, 01:51 PM
There are a lot of factors involved. I wish it were not so but some topics, despite best intentions, are ultimately going to be flame bait. Experience has proven that, while many can handle a civil conversation on almost any subject, others find it impossible. Sometimes a single post that would be inoffensive by itself, is nevertheless sure to foster a discussion that will go off the rails in a very short time. Other times a mature group is able to go quite some time without a problem - until ...

Then there's the matter of timing. Just now, in this country, dropping the names Clinton or Trump into any thread virtually guarantees it will spin out of control within about an hour. Rather than fret, please just enjoy the respite from cacophony.

Exactly ..good explanation, thatīs the kind of perspective I thought you guys indeed have, I was to tired to write such guess down, and itīs not good politics to put my guessing in to what moderators really think.

cove
11-09-2016, 08:26 AM
Did not think i would be back so soon making another comment but saw SBowie comment here and glad to have read his post which
clearly sets out what is and is not ecceptable and why.

Just had this thought as to how to legitamise a post when it goes off topic on any of the subjects you mentioned in your reply to me.
Quote.
"evolution, astronomy, cosmology, philosophy, science etc"

Seems all thats needed is for an image to be provided that illustrates a subject/question/answer/point being made. As long as the
image or even a 3d scene, no matter how simple, has been created in Lightwave then the off topic aspect can continue.

:stop: Don,t tell SBowie though that ive said this he may think im cheating a bit and say
"You definatly are OFF TOPIC read the rules" :tsktsk:

Even so Its look as if my earliar fun thread suggestion to have a
"Lightwave Philosophical Society" suddenly has legs.
The thread would only need to have an accassional image to make the thread valid.

As to when i will start this "Lightwave Philosophical Society" thread.
All i can say is Im working on it, developement is going well and i will let you know more as soon as i can which
may or may not be soon [sound familier!]. ;)

SBowie
11-09-2016, 09:39 AM
Rather than guess, or imagine that comments in this or any thread are definitive, why not simply read the forum moderation policy: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?63918-NewTek-Discussion-Forums-Moderation-Policy

cove
11-09-2016, 12:27 PM
Rather than guess, or imagine that comments in this or any thread are definitive, why not simply read the forum moderation policy: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?63918-NewTek-Discussion-Forums-Moderation-Policy

Have now reminded myself of the forum rules.
My intention was to have a bit of fun with the subject of being off topic and wrote it tounge in cheek.

Your reply also promted me to realise how off topic my own thread has become
given that origanally i asked if human rigged figures could be provided in the "NEXT" Lightwave.

I therefor now consider this thread closed.

Hope were still friends.

prometheus
11-09-2016, 12:57 PM
The following items are not considered professional or civil discourse allowed on these forums:

Off-topic and controversial subjects such as Religion and Politics (The Prometheus perspective on that-It all makes sense..and this with emphasis on controversial subjects, this forum would be clogged with personal attacks if those rules are not there, discussing off topics such as the fascination of whales, sea animals or stars etc..may be off topic in relation to anything around graphics or 3d, but I donīt think the moderators are seeing that as a risc to compromise the nice behaviour in here, or compromising their products, and thus they seem to have patience with some off topics, the rest of the rules doesnīt take much brains to understand, I think they should expand on the rules a bit though, no personal attacks against the newtek customers or employees loved pets, maybe that is included in family members :) )

Comments of an "off color" nature inappropriate for viewing by minors
Non-constructive criticism of a malicious nature
Personal attacks against NewTek customers or employees and their family members
Promotional messages and material for competing products

cove
11-09-2016, 02:39 PM
The following items are not considered professional or civil discourse allowed on these forums:

Off-topic and controversial subjects such as Religion and Politics (The Prometheus perspective on that-It all makes sense..and this with emphasis on controversial subjects, this forum would be clogged with personal attacks if those rules are not there, discussing off topics such as the fascination of whales, sea animals or stars etc..may be off topic in relation to anything around graphics or 3d, but I donīt think the moderators are seeing that as a risc to compromise the nice behaviour in here, or compromising their products, and thus they seem to have patience with some off topics, the rest of the rules doesnīt take much brains to understand, I think they should expand on the rules a bit though, no personal attacks against the newtek customers or employees loved pets, maybe that is included in family members :) )

Comments of an "off color" nature inappropriate for viewing by minors
Non-constructive criticism of a malicious nature
Personal attacks against NewTek customers or employees and their family members
Promotional messages and material for competing products

Thanks prometheus for putting the forum rules in perspective and do appreciate that Lightwave does make broad allowences.

With reference to
Quote
"discussing off topics such as the fascination of whales, sea animals or stars etc..may be off topic in relation to anything around graphics or 3d, but I donīt think the moderators are seeing that as a risc to compromise the nice behaviour in here"

Does this mean we can get back to our off topic subject ----
"Lightwave Philosophical Society" thread. As it does refer to Lightwave in the title. [Only kidding]. :)

Yes this thread was good while it lasted.

prometheus
11-10-2016, 09:55 AM
Thanks prometheus for putting the forum rules in perspective and do appreciate that Lightwave does make broad allowences.

With reference to
Quote
"discussing off topics such as the fascination of whales, sea animals or stars etc..may be off topic in relation to anything around graphics or 3d, but I donīt think the moderators are seeing that as a risc to compromise the nice behaviour in here"

Does this mean we can get back to our off topic subject ----
"Lightwave Philosophical Society" thread. As it does refer to Lightwave in the title. [Only kidding]. :)

Yes this thread was good while it lasted.

There is tricks, when you start discussing whales or stars, you may want to suggest to others something like, Have you modeled whales? or I want to see rendered whales etc, or stars.
So with the goal to have some discussions on philosphy, you could provide a render based on philosopchical thoughts etc, and perhaps start with a butterfly dreaming it is a human thinking etc :D
So by baking in 3d or graphics in to your hidden agenda could be a good move, and with this suggested baked case, you may need both philosophy and a rigged human as components.

Cheers.
Michael