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jwiede
09-12-2016, 06:50 PM
So it's out, and I'm finding it pretty impressive in terms of the performance improvements, the new cloud model, and lots of other new and improved features.

Anyone else upgraded/bought Terragen 4? I'd be interested in others' thoughts regarding it, and particularly how it compares to TG3.

NOTE: Not sure if there's another thread already discussing this, couldn't find it either using forum search or Google (most discussions of Terragen from the last two years appear MIA, alas).

prometheus
09-12-2016, 08:12 PM
So it's out, and I'm finding it pretty impressive in terms of the performance improvements, the new cloud model, and lots of other new and improved features.

Anyone else upgraded/bought Terragen 4? I'd be interested in others' thoughts regarding it, and particularly how it compares to TG3.

NOTE: Not sure if there's another thread already discussing this, couldn't find it either using forum search or Google (most discussions of Terragen from the last two years appear MIA, alas).

Yes there was, but I canīt find it either, I think it may have vanished due to the forum crash unfortunatly.
I added some notes on that and have tested terragen beta, but even if the previewer was much faster now, it still isnīt that fast, it is now soon matching the speed of vue perhaps, but as soon as you scale the preview window up a little larger, it becomes much much slower..so I wasnīt that overly impressed with it, the previewer doeesnīt update properly under some conditions, but canīt recall what..have to fire up the beta which has experied and see what it was.

Easier way to work with navigation and cameras and still a bit better preview iteration speed, improve node connections and a bit better UI woud be welcome, also if it had direct vegetation addons, as well as surface and terrain shader presets..thats what I like about vue, on the other hand, the quality is still hands down the best for light and air an clouds in terragen.

prometheus
09-12-2016, 09:34 PM
Hereīs a sample of the beta 4 version, nothing fancy ..and can not render larger than this res, just basic settings with a change of camera level, and added a mid level altocumulus medium easy cloud, but did not change a thing in clouds
environment I increased red sky decay to 10 and blue sky density to 10.
I should increase environment and cloud quality though.

13 minutes and 53 seconds for 1280x500 res. with lightwave and some tabs in firefox acive while rendering.
windows 7 12 gb ram pentium i7 960 3,2 ghz dual core
gtx 480 nvidia card.




http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134455&d=1473737614

CaptainMarlowe
09-13-2016, 03:11 AM
I have to test it. I'm very fond of Terragen, generally, I find it better than Vue, but it's only my personnal experience.

prometheus
09-13-2016, 03:27 AM
I have to test it. I'm very fond of Terragen, generally, I find it better than Vue, but it's only my personnal experience.

Itīs better in a few areas only, that is render quality, light, clouds and terrain quality to some extent, but it is really poor in navigation of camera, materials etc.

Itīs more fun and easier to setup stuff in vue, even though vueīs opengl is horrible compared to lightwave, but compared to terragen it is better.
then again..you would have to tweak clouds more in vue, while in terragen you could reach realism quicker.

The internal cloudscattering seems much better in terragen as well as the actual cloud fractal density.

zapper1998
09-13-2016, 03:34 AM
T4 going to be 64 bit????

ActionBob
09-13-2016, 12:38 PM
Just bought my upgrade from version 2 pro. I am looking forward to getting into this. I am looking forward to utilizing the spherical camera to generate lighting / background environmental assets with it. I am excited to try using Houdini clouds and terragen clouds together; depending on what is going on in the scene. Rendering in lightwave with Octane.... Too many toys and not enough time to play... Damn regular life and job that drains me during the day..... Otherwise, I am SURE I could make good use of my time and learn all that great stuff.... :-)

-Adrian

- - - Updated - - -

Just wondering, I recall World Machine having a really nice erosion modifier. Have they improved the erosion in Terragen since version 2?

-Adrian

HarverdGrad
09-13-2016, 01:45 PM
I purchased 3 with a Free upgrade to version 4 in December 2015. I got a notice that my maintenance expires this December (in 3 months time), when they sent out the final Terragen 4 key (see below)
After further email correspondence- it turns out they are now maintenance/subscription, so you'll only get bug fixes if your maintenance hasn't expired.

Did they communicate any of this to the public?
There's nothing on their web site eluding to yearly subscription (or maintenance.. whatever you want to call it)

****************

Thank you for purchasing Terragen 4 Professional (Perpetual License)!

This email contains a License Key File registered to the name "fake name"

Maintenance updates will be available until 2016-12-xx .

ActionBob
09-13-2016, 02:45 PM
I would assume that the maintenance just means free updates / bug fixes within a dev cycle. A perpetual license would mean whatever version you currently have installed would continue to work even if the maintenance expired. I didn't really see anything about is being subscription.

I guess we will see - but given the upgrade price and their including the animation module as part of all of Terregen, it seems to be about on par with what they have done in the past - no huge drops or increases.

-Adrian.

m.d.
09-13-2016, 04:22 PM
Just tweaking a cloud setup for eventual animation

about 30 minutes a frame...1280x720
6 core intel 980 3.33ghz 24 gig of ram
134463

some optimization and tweaking only can shave a few minutes off however (with a visibly worse difference), and AA still is low

CaptainMarlowe
09-13-2016, 09:33 PM
Itīs better in a few areas only, that is render quality, light, clouds and terrain quality to some extent, but it is really poor in navigation of camera, materials etc.

Itīs more fun and easier to setup stuff in vue, even though vueīs opengl is horrible compared to lightwave, but compared to terragen it is better.
then again..you would have to tweak clouds more in vue, while in terragen you could reach realism quicker.

The internal cloudscattering seems much better in terragen as well as the actual cloud fractal density.

In your experience. For my needs, I do prefer Terragen over Vue in almost all areas, and I have been using TG since v0.9 and Vue since V4. Nowadays, I only open Vue for converting the objects I want to sell on Cornucopia.

prometheus
09-13-2016, 10:40 PM
In your experience. For my needs, I do prefer Terragen over Vue in almost all areas, and I have been using TG since v0.9 and Vue since V4. Nowadays, I only open Vue for converting the objects I want to sell on Cornucopia.

Fair enough, of course it depends a lot on the user itself and how one experience the software, for me..if I had the cloud lighting and render and fractals of terragen, I would prefer working with vueīs interface on controling heights, position scaling and rotation.. but I would prefer the realism and quality of terragens light scattering and shadows and fractals for clouds.

for navigation overall in open gl and moving of cloud objects and other objects as well as camera navigation...I prefer the vue way, and then we got all the assets and materials ...I prever vue, seem to be quite thin in that area for terragen.

I just looke at the easy clouds, seem to be more of beta so to speak with too little control, since it seems you canīt change scaling of fractal within these fast and easy clouds, neither can you control rotation, only depth, coverage position and cloud base altitude?
The value settings are not changable with sliders only per numeric values ..that needs improvements.
Also..the iteration realtrace preview is still quite a lot slower than vue it seems, but they are closing in on that.

I will fire terragen up now and then, cause it hands down gives the best clouds and lighting, but I am not fond of the UI or navigation or working with the settings, I guess I could contribute on the site with suggested improvements.
And ofcourse, the price is a difference as well, though this new one seem more expensive with terragen 4.
If terragen had improved the

m.d.
09-13-2016, 11:14 PM
Render times are still extreme....although this scene is a bit of a challenge for the new clouds
2h 20min....
A little much for 1 frame....I am near my limit for tweaking render times as the lack of documentation is mostly trial and error
Shadow maps help a bit (2-3% faster) and some acceleration and reducing the number of voxels....but it is still pretty slow
134464

m.d.
09-13-2016, 11:19 PM
I just looke at the easy clouds, seem to be more of beta so to speak with too little control, since it seems you canīt change scaling of fractal within these fast and easy clouds, neither can you control rotation, only depth, coverage position and cloud base altitude?


they are basically fast presets right now, if you treat them that way they are pretty realistic out of the box.
But ya a little bit beta, and I think the plan is to give you more control

prometheus
09-14-2016, 12:00 AM
Not something that should belong here or be adressed here, but I was checking the compare products between, terragen 4 pro and creative, and it seems like a joke..
the only thing I can make out as difference is the format
tg3pa-m VS tg3ca-m and the pricing $699.00 VS $349.00

The summary isnīt really telling anything of importance or in depth of what the pro version offers in comparison, guess I should email them and suggest a better comparison chart.

dickbill
09-14-2016, 07:48 AM
Render times are still extreme....although this scene is a bit of a challenge for the new clouds
2h 20min....
A little much for 1 frame....I am near my limit for tweaking render times as the lack of documentation is mostly trial and error
Shadow maps help a bit (2-3% faster) and some acceleration and reducing the number of voxels....but it is still pretty slow
134464

Very long indeed, was it a non-optimized demo version ?

m.d.
09-14-2016, 09:28 AM
Very long indeed, was it a non-optimized demo version ?

Nope, the real deal

dickbill
09-14-2016, 10:33 AM
Just tweaking a cloud setup for eventual animation

about 30 minutes a frame...1280x720
6 core intel 980 3.33ghz 24 gig of ram
134463

some optimization and tweaking only can shave a few minutes off however (with a visibly worse difference), and AA still is low

everything ran in 64bits I presume, and 24gigs of ram seems irrelevant here : one cube and one plane with clouds but 30 minutes a frame, wow. There seems to be something wrong.

m.d.
09-14-2016, 11:14 AM
everything ran in 64bits I presume, and 24gigs of ram seems irrelevant here : one cube and one plane with clouds but 30 minutes a frame, wow. There seems to be something wrong.

Seeing as tg4 is only 64bit, the question seems irrelevant as well :)

i think it is what it is....long render times. 30 million voxels,80% in camera with scattering doesn't lend for a fast render....a lot different than rendering clouds from below

ActionBob
09-14-2016, 12:19 PM
Just tweaking a cloud setup for eventual animation

about 30 minutes a frame...1280x720
6 core intel 980 3.33ghz 24 gig of ram
134463

some optimization and tweaking only can shave a few minutes off however (with a visibly worse difference), and AA still is low



This image made me do a double take as I had set up a very similar test scene when I was testing out Terragen 2... lol.. I was like, "hey, who got a hold of my silly scene?" The scene I was doing not only had a tower to test the shadow information, but also to render different cloud effects from above - some some see through illumination to the terrain beneath.

I guess a good, simple test scene is universal. :-)

I did not expect great render speed improvements as I was originally astounded at how Terragen is. However, depending on the scene you can get some useful results without too much a render hit. I am planning on making a variety of lighting domes with it and let Octane along with Houdini particles do the heavy, near camera lifting inside of lightwave.

-Adrian

zapper1998
09-20-2016, 03:18 AM
wow 30 minutes a frame wow
T4 might be faster ya think??

prometheus
09-21-2016, 09:59 AM
30-45 minutes for an hd frame seem to be the case for most of renders like that, vue goes at the same rate too aproximately.
You would however need to compare render with equal settings, gi, aa ..wether or not there is terrain and what kind of terrain etc, so easiest to compare is to leave out terrain and check on the volumetrics only.
Even lightwave and ogo taiki would be long, probably even longer with some settings, faster in other reduced settings.

jwiede
09-24-2016, 06:11 PM
You really think you'll get cloud lighting that good (or even reasonably close) out of Vue without adding something like QuadSpinner's Helios?

prometheus
09-24-2016, 08:46 PM
You really think you'll get cloud lighting that good (or even reasonably close) out of Vue without adding something like QuadSpinner's Helios?

Who is you in that question?

canīt be me anyway..I havenīt even argued against that.

madno
09-25-2016, 12:11 AM
Sign of life from E-On

seems so "Hybrid GPU/CPU Interactive Path Tracer" is comming.

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/news/blog/index.php?post/2016/09/14/VUE-2016-Leaks-1:-Interactive-Path-Tracer

madno
09-25-2016, 12:49 AM
But I hope when it comes out it:

antialiases
allow round edges
render all wheels in a scene as round objects
and forgive a tri here and there

134581

:devil:

prometheus
09-25-2016, 09:06 AM
vue needs better cloud models, mostly in the cloud fractal function itself, as well as improved lighting and fading density of edges, that is what Terragen does quite a bit better.
overall otherwise, I enjoy fiddling aroundnd in vue ple much more though, navigation, UI, speed, presets, materials etc.