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Lee-AVP
09-02-2016, 08:47 AM
I was all spooled up to buy a VS100, but then someone asked, "Why don't you just use NDI for video in and out of Skype?"

We are an audio-visual company that does, mostly, corporate work. My application is remote presenters who sometimes have powerpoint or other desktop sharing in addition to webcam content.

There's always something to be said for a dedicated appliance, but given the fact that I have not yet purchased AE for my 460, and given that I have a customer scheduled for a three-day skype-enabled webcast, which trigger would you pull: Buy the VS100, or buy AE and set up an NDI workflow with a laptop?

Thanks for your opinions!

SBowie
09-02-2016, 09:13 AM
I don't want to push you one way or the other, just to mention a couple of details: First, I was a slow convert to the notion of Talkshow - I didn't really 'get it' until I actually used it, and the light bulb went on - I realized that the operating experience is very different than fussing with the consumer Skype client (if you're doing it a often, the convenience and toolset make a big difference) and the image quality is much better than I'd ever experienced using the Skype client alone. That said, there is a cost for this convenience and quality, and it is what it is.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that, with or without Talkshow, you can supply your desktop presentations as high quality video feeds to the Skype client using NDI Transmit. OK, I'll let others weigh in.

Koinonia
09-02-2016, 10:28 AM
If you have to choose just one I would choose to buy AE. You will have lots of new and really great features that will help you a lot in all kind of work. As Steve said, it's not the same as a dedicated machine, but I am using NDI transmit with Skype and VB cable and getting an excellent image quality of Skype.

JPulera
09-02-2016, 11:02 AM
AE is not actually a requirement to use NDI - the two current NET inputs will accept NDI input, and the NETWORK output in OUTPUT CONFIG will supply one NDI output. That said, AE is a fantastic investment and would provide greater flexibility in audio routing, for instance setting up the mix-minus for the Skype return audio feed. AE would also give you 4 NDI inputs and 4 NDI outputs (configurable video and audio sources). I love all the automation features of AE, and the incredible flexibility in routing of inputs and outputs.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera

Lee-AVP
09-02-2016, 11:34 AM
I have sortof avoided reading too much about AE as I have a tendency to buy everything that I read about, to the detrement of cash flow, so bear with me a second:

At the very least, I'd use a net input along with NDI Scan Converter to pull in the source, and NDI connect and a the existing Network Output to send return video to Skype. But I really want AE so that I can route audio better.

The question then becomes living with the consumer interface, as Steve mentioned. Hmmm.

SBowie
09-02-2016, 12:02 PM
My general policy over the years has been to try to use one advancement to pay for the next one. So, based on my personal philosophy, I'd lean towards using AE and Transmit to eventually pay for a Talkshow. And then, frankly, I'd shoot for the VS-4000, because there's a big difference between a production using one Skype call and one featuring 4 callers.

kanep
09-02-2016, 01:22 PM
I'd use a net input along with NDI Scan Converter to pull in the source, and NDI connect and a the existing Network Output to send return video to Skype.

To go from Skype to TriCaster, you would use NDI Scan Converter as you mention, you also might need VB Cable (free) to handle the audio from Skype into NDI Scan Converter.

To go from TriCaster to Skype, you would be using NDI Transmit, not NDI Connect. There is a demo version of NDI Transmit so you can test it out.

AElli
09-02-2016, 02:58 PM
' frankly, I'd shoot for the VS-4000, because there's a big difference between a production using one Skype call and one featuring 4 callers '

Hell yes..
I ran a 2 guest, + 2 guest screen grabs showing their PC screens, 4 Skype connection with 4 PCs over NDI using the basic Skype application and never again, it was hard work.. The switching was easy. But the upkeep... Every mouse movement brought up the GUIs controls.. Fading image resolution as bandwidths changed ( on the internet side, not NDI ) handling mix minuses on the audio mixer ( actually I enjoyed that part ) trying to control the talent by switching a local mic input back to Skype ( rudimental TalkBack ) but i really had to work it to keep 4 Skype feeds going over 4 PCs. Im told Skype for business is much better GUI but have yet to sign up.
Now my limitation is two Skype guests. Or 1 guest and his 1 screen grab.
After watching the guys on the TWIT network I thought how hard can it be :-)
A.

Koinonia
09-02-2016, 05:49 PM
My point is: you will have one Skype enabled webcast scheduled, not everyday or week. I think it's much better to invest in AE that you will use always and rent talkshows when you need Skype and put this in your service price.

AElli
09-03-2016, 01:29 AM
Ah, OK you're only handling one Skype instance with one guess. then go with the laptop, I thought I read something where your using 4 inputs on Skype. having only one feed puts a totally different view on it. :-)

A.

Lee-AVP
09-06-2016, 07:47 AM
Thanks for the input, everyone. AE it is, as that will have the biggest impact on our business as a whole - but I still want a talk show soon. :)

pnelson
09-08-2016, 05:13 AM
Reasons why TalkShow is better than standard Skype..

TalkShow uses a pro version of Skype called Skype TX.
1. No popup ads on TalkShow
2. Incoming calls are blocked
3. Detailed caller tech data
4. tally support for your Skype guest


There are more reasons but just wanted to give you a few.

skdvr
10-05-2016, 11:04 AM
I am still trying to grasp all the NDI stuff. So let me see if I understand this. Lets say that I am in MO and I have a single presenter in CO that wants to do a powerpoint over skype. I have a 460 with AE and a laptop. If my laptop has NDI Scan Converter and NDI Transmit on it, I can have the skype call going on the laptop and through NDI Scan Converter I can see it with the tricaster. Then with NDI Transmit I can see the output from the tricaster and send it back to Skype?

I feel like I am missing something in there, but just don't get it.

Thanks,
Phil

SBowie
10-05-2016, 11:29 AM
That all sounds correct. As to what you might be missing, I can only say that the difference with a TalkShow would be a better workflow, less fuss all around, better image quality (imho), a dedicated, purpose-built and rack-mountable Skype host (as opposed, say, to a laptop), and all of the things Phillip has mentioned ... oh, and the ability to manage calls and even multiple units across a netwek using the Skype TX controller software.

skdvr
10-05-2016, 11:33 AM
That all sounds correct. As to what you might be missing, I can only say that the difference with a TalkShow would be a better workflow, less fuss all around, better image quality (imho), a dedicated, purpose-built and rack-mountable Skype host (as opposed, say, to a laptop), and all of the things Phillip has mentioned ... oh, and the ability to manage calls and even multiple units across a netwek using the Skype TX controller software.

Thanks Steve. I have not have anyone ask about it yet, but I can see it coming. I can certainly see the value in the TalkShow if you were doing it all the time. I may try and mess with this soon just to make sure I can get it figured out.

When I listen to you guys that know this system so well talk about NDI, my head starts to spin. So much potential, but so much seems to go right over my head. Thank you for taking the time to clarify.

Phil

SBowie
10-05-2016, 11:44 AM
When I listen to you guys that know this system so well talk about NDI, my head starts to spin.I think of NDI in simple terms as follows. SDI is basically a telephone - one sender, one receiver, occasionally a switchboard (SDI router) in between, but still one to one in the end. By contrast, NDI is more like the internet. Every audio/video source is accessible all over the network, in parallel - much like a webpage. Your web service serves your webpage, and many people can see it and interact with it at the same time.

This approach really offers a lot of workflow benefits in many scenarios, and is quite different from other current IP schemes. There's more, but this analogy suffices for me for most purposes.

skdvr
10-05-2016, 11:46 AM
I think of NDI in simple terms as follows. SDI is basically a telephone - one sender, one receiver, occasionally a switchboard (SDI router) in between, but still one to one in the end. By contrast, NDI is more like the internet. Every audio/video source is accessible all over the network, in parallel - comparable to a webpage. Your web service serves your webpage, and many people can see it and interact with it at the same time.

This approach really offers a lot of workflow benefits in many scenarios, and is quite different from other current IP schemes. There's more, but this analogy suffices for me for most purposes.

Thank you for that.....

Phil

Lee-AVP
10-05-2016, 03:20 PM
I thought I'd circle back around on this.

NDI was miles better than our old Skype setup, which consisted of an SDI capture device, an HDMI to SDI converter, and the expenditure of an SDI out on the Tricaster, which always seem to be the item in shortest supply. We did have to use a virtual sound card to get the audio to flow properly - but when a Skype presenter asked "Hey can you run my presentation from there and show me my slides?" we were able to do so easily, then switch back to a camera so he could see the room. Worked great.

But I can definitely understand wanting to step up to Talk Show. The way Scan Converter handles windows is awesome - but we still had to do some cropping, still had issues with call controls popping up on the screen, and overall still felt like we were cluding a solution together, even though we eliminated a bunch of hardware from the process.

kanep
10-05-2016, 03:52 PM
Thanks for the feedback.

I agree, the NDI tools with the desktop version of Skype do work well, but there are still things that have to do with how the desktop Skype client operates which go beyond getting video into and out of it. TalkShow allows you to resolve those issues with a version of Skype in where you don't have to worry about window borders, on screen widgets, pop-ups and all of the other things that can happen on a computer while a Skype call is running.

csandy
10-10-2016, 10:49 AM
Hi Lee,

I intentionally stayed out of this thread, but as you now know in retrospect, the forum participants did not lead you wrong. Glad things worked out for you. Talkshow is a luxury perhaps, but well worth it when you have the business to support it. If you look at old episodes of Studiotech.tv, especially the pre-shows, you'll see a lot of time was spent kludging together hacks to make Skype happy in a broadcast environment or badmouthing SAV because we kept bashing the solution and insisting they use something else. Once you've used talkshow and come to expect the stability, reliability, and repeatability in your workflow, you really don't want to go back.

Lee-AVP
10-11-2016, 11:22 AM
We'll almost certainly be adding one for our next big conference event. I imagine someone around here will sell me one. :)

csandy
10-11-2016, 04:51 PM
We'll almost certainly be adding one for our next big conference event. I imagine someone around here will sell me one. :)

I reckon :)