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robertoortiz
08-16-2016, 09:19 AM
Hey guys,
Here is another thread in order to help the conversation I wanted to post a thread to inspire the developers.
As some of you may have heard the LW render engine is ongoing a major overhaul.
So my guess is that the NPR engine should also be updated.
So tell us how would you implement a next gen NPR rendering?
Would you do it in a node based approach?
Maybe have the ability to used PRESETS applied to a WHOLE SCENE at the same time in an interactive fashion?.
A Hybrid approach?
Should it be able to output content as Vector?
Should LW try to emulate Maya Paint FX?
And please do post examples if you got them.
I am looking forward to your posts.

-R

paulhart
08-16-2016, 03:42 PM
So glad you jumped in here on the NPR front. I am including a recent render in final form?? and a layered explanation. I would like to be able to get more 'hand-drawn' aspect to the lines in Lightwave, as I tried exporting the Scene via FBX to try and use Blender Freestyle where I can better control of light incidence angle tapering of the line and fine 'noise,' but the transition wasn't smooth enough from Lightwave to Blender (separate issue, but related) I appreciate the Node based aspect, allowing on screen preview via VPR is great. I have yet to come up with the tapered line, based on light incidence with some noise to make it more hand-drawn. Presets of this aspect would be a blessing as the 'tech' side of nodes drives us 'artist' types bonkers. Ease of creating Clay Renders, AO passes, Line passes. Blender supports SVG output, but Krita has yet to implement applying 'brushes' to the vector lines. Krita is excellent for natural media, but I went with Akvis because it supports 'batch' mode. Obviously, my personal goal is a watercolor like output paired with the full render, so I don't lose too much detail, with an AO pass and Lines multiplied over it. I often Comp in Blender, once I have worked out a 'look' in GIMP or Photoshop. Having passes easily created for later comping is vital. It should be 'built-in' along with easy global Clay, AO, Lines (with the control I mentioned, previewed via VPR) Some natural media options would be sweet, as I look to the Japanese movie houses for inspiration. Doing this via other apps and comping together is okay, but getting all of the passes out of Lightwave should be easier. Hopefully this thread helps.
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paulhart
08-16-2016, 06:41 PM
Here are two different examples that I did entirely in Lightwave. The setup of the nodes on the line drawing version is a bit cumbersome, but the ability to create sketchy hand-drawn shadows that follow contours is wonderful. The second one of the lightpost was easier to setup and I was going for an atmospheric Miyazaki look. These are some of the styles that I enjoy creating and welcome any work in Lightwave that makes this easier to achieve. Some of the work coming out of Japan is worth 'porting' this way. UnReal Extreme is a node based line and toon rendering tool that hasn't been updated to years, and the documentation makes it awkward to achieve consistent results, at least for me.134066134067

vonpietro
08-16-2016, 06:58 PM
do you know about fotosketcher?

vonpietro
08-16-2016, 07:01 PM
here is an some anime tests i've done
using fusion for post and lw for edges
as well as fotosketcher for watercolor


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paulhart
08-16-2016, 08:18 PM
do you know about fotosketcher?

Thank you for the reference information. Downloaded, and donated. Got to keep donation ware and Open Source alive! Your posted contributions are visually engaging.

Julez4001
08-17-2016, 03:45 AM
I will contribute to this forum.
I achieved the anime look by rendering the shadows, color and edges separately and then put back together in After Effects.

I would like the LWG to incorporate a lot of the Unreal nodal and edge per surface features natively into the LW render engine.
Unreal is really good but it doesn't show in the edges pass and a little "toothy" to setup its own pass.

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daforum
08-17-2016, 06:40 AM
Does anyone have their workflow to look at, or tutorials as reference?
Would be good to learn various methods.

And, does anyone know an equivalent for Mac of Fotosketcher?

robertoortiz
08-18-2016, 07:17 AM
Here are two different examples that I did entirely in Lightwave. The setup of the nodes on the line drawing version is a bit cumbersome, but the ability to create sketchy hand-drawn shadows that follow contours is wonderful. The second one of the lightpost was easier to setup and I was going for an atmospheric Miyazaki look.
Any chance we could take a peek to your Node layout?

robertoortiz
08-18-2016, 09:20 AM
This might help the conversation:



What if you could sketch a pattern or design on a piece of paper and have all the hand-drawn intricacies of your work instantly preserved in the texture of a 3D model?
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/tech/video-stylit-presents-exciting-new-way-stylize-cg-animation-142515.html

paulhart
08-18-2016, 03:04 PM
Robert, Hello..
I had seen the SkyLit demo. Great stuff, too bad it is proprietary by Adobe, hopefully others will implement some version, MatCap, or other. I am including two images to try and share the node setup. I am showing the one without any color layer, just to keep it simple. I can find a color example if needed. I created a set of 'hand-drawn' textures from light to dark that get plugged into the gradient. I included little 'thumbnails' of them along with the render. Take a look and let me know. The mix nodes are set to multiply or darken. Looking forward to other's contributions and discussion.
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gatz
08-25-2016, 04:37 PM
I've been trying to come up with a satisfying non-photoreal treatment for some time. It's quite simple to get nice looking still frames but animations suffer from looking like a gauze has been dropped over the image, the "artistic" look being unnaturally stiff/regular or it jitters frantically from frame to frame.

So far I've tried the following:
Toon shading
motionblur displacement
LW Image Processing Artistic looks
Studio Artist (batch processing of output frames)
FotoSketcher (batch processing of output frames)
Video Gogh (After Effects processing of output)

Here are my favorites so far.

Base Render (LW)
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Studio Artist (post)
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FotoSketch (post)
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Video Gogh (AE, applied to base)
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Video Gogh (AE, applied to base. Addition of linework from LW Image Processing)
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I hope this inspires some conversation.

erikals
08-26-2016, 02:59 AM
just saw this video, not quite, but somewhat related to this subject.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv_jybdJDJo

paulhart
08-26-2016, 11:10 AM
• Studio Artist (batch processing of output frames)

Here are my favorites so far.

Studio Artist (post)
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with? (Addition of linework from LW Image Processing)

Thank you for sharing. I thought I had seen most of the choices, but I had not bumped into Studio Artist, thank you. My 'vote' on your fine efforts would go to the Studio Artist version, but I would then overlay the Edges. At least, this is more the look that I most want to emulate. Most Watercolor effects are fine on single images, but they 'swim' too much on animation. I may bust out the piggy bank on this one?? Nice work, we appreciate your sharing.

paulhart
08-26-2016, 11:26 AM
Erikals, thanks for the linked video. Jammed and high velocity, but some interesting examples and some of the info was helpful, if I can just hold on to it after the explosive pace.

erikals
08-26-2016, 12:49 PM
if I can just hold on to it after the explosive pace.
:)   i think they fast-forward Youtube videos these days...

jeric_synergy
08-27-2016, 12:23 AM
here is an some anime tests i've done
using fusion for post and lw for edges
as well as fotosketcher for watercolor
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tasty!!!

erikals
08-27-2016, 02:27 AM
tasty!!!
yeah, must say, cool..! :king:

gatz
08-27-2016, 01:11 PM
In my last post I incorrectly labeled "Octo_txt_ToonWC2.m4v" as a Studio Artist output. It is actually RedGiant's Universe Toon plugin for After Effects. Below is the Studio Artist output. It uses an unedited PASeq "Cartoon2" which is found under PASeq > Movies > Wet Styles.


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paulhart
08-27-2016, 03:08 PM
Randy Gates, Hello...
Thank you for the inclusion of the updated information. This looks good, and I will continue to play with the choices. I like the RedGiant's Universe Toon and will investigate to see if it plays well with others. I got your PM's and appreciate the clarifications.