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js33
08-08-2016, 05:05 PM
Three forum members are featured on http://www.rendering.de myself included.

First we have Prometheus and his DNA script, Erikalst and his Epic Pen and me with the Fuel Preporator animation I recently completed. I just posted the animation with music. The client wanted to edit it himself to make a longer version that will have a VO and labels to explain what is going on.

prometheus
08-08-2016, 06:31 PM
Three forum members are featured on http://www.rendering.de myself included.

First we have Prometheus and his DNA script, Erikalst and his Epic Pen and me with the Fuel Preporator animation I recently completed. I just posted the animation with music. The client wanted to edit it himself to make a longer version that will have a VO and labels to explain what is going on.

I still have to post that compiled modeler to layout script, it was done in layout ls commander with initial null, so the script will start and work without adding a null manually ..which often is the case with modeler tools, same principles as when I converted the modeler logo to layout working logo.

I will post that DNA script later, but I think I will do a menu branch for it as well...or you have to add it as you want yourself in the menuīs.

Prince Charming
08-08-2016, 06:41 PM
I have been featured on there 3 times since the 1 of July... Do I win a prize?

js33
08-08-2016, 07:13 PM
You should probably have a sticky on the site for your tuts as they really push the boundaries of what most people think LW can do.
If your posts were on there now I would have said something. I was just showing what is on there right now.

prometheus
08-08-2016, 08:52 PM
There is a problem with that site though, as I understand it..it is mostly a site put up for German speaking ..and as such it becomes a bit of a hustle for non german speaking users...and those outnumbers the german speakers by miles and miles.
The site has itīs interesting articles..but google translating will not be a proper translation always..ergo some difficulties to follow it all.
It would be great if it were written in English..which is a more commonly used and accepted world wide language than german at least, though I can fully understand that they opted for a german site, partly because they can make themself understood for germans more fluently and it may have been aimed foremost for german community.

js33
08-08-2016, 09:03 PM
Yeah let them have their fun. I used Chrome's translator and it sounds like a German speaking broken english but you can still make out what they are saying.

Prince Charming
08-08-2016, 10:37 PM
You should probably have a sticky on the site for your tuts as they really push the boundaries of what most people think LW can do.
If your posts were on there now I would have said something. I was just showing what is on there right now.

Its all good... I was just joking around. I go there all the time and use google translate to read through all the stuff. Works well enough.
Not really much point to posting links to vids that are no longer available. Shame... cause I haven't even shown the good stuff yet :jam:
There are some workflows in LW that would be extremely hard to replicate in any of the apps.

prometheus
08-08-2016, 10:55 PM
Yeah let them have their fun. I used Chrome's translator and it sounds like a German speaking broken english but you can still make out what they are saying.

when we can translate from german to english to swedish to japanese ..then translate back from japanese to german..and with everything intact as it was in german, thatīll be the day:D

js33
08-08-2016, 11:21 PM
Its all good... I was just joking around. I go there all the time and use google translate to read through all the stuff. Works well enough.
Not really much point to posting links to vids that are no longer available. Shame... cause I haven't even shown the good stuff yet :jam:
There are some workflows in LW that would be extremely hard to replicate in any of the apps.

Now that I finished my project I'm going to check out some of your tuts. I usually don't need the kind of mograph stuff you do but it looks interesting.

- - - Updated - - -


when we can translate from german to english to swedish to japanese ..then translate back from japanese to german..and with everything intact as it was in german, thatīll be the day:D

But you know it would be like telling a story around a campfire with 50 people and by the time it gets back to the first person the story is completely different.

Prince Charming
08-08-2016, 11:29 PM
Now that I finished my project I'm going to check out some of your tuts. I usually don't need the kind of mograph stuff you do but it looks interesting
Where are you viewing them from?

js33
08-08-2016, 11:32 PM
Where are you viewing them from?https://www.youtube.com/user/bryphi77/videos

prometheus
08-09-2016, 12:01 AM
Now that I finished my project I'm going to check out some of your tuts. I usually don't need the kind of mograph stuff you do but it looks interesting.

- - - Updated - - -


But you know it would be like telling a story around a campfire with 50 people and by the time it gets back to the first person the story is completely different.


https://www.youtube.com/user/bryphi77/videos


Thatīs how mankind does it..or how to make a Bible:D if you add over 3000 years it will be sure will be fine and dandy..yes sir..no question about that (with a silly southern accent :) ) the process may be similar to Dna replicating, and loosing information while doing so, or duplicating errors. :)

Regarding bryphis tutes...
those are mostly just the rendered finished results, as far as I can see..most tutorials are removed.

Prince Charming
08-09-2016, 12:04 AM
https://www.youtube.com/user/bryphi77/videos

They are not available there. Some smart copyright infringer may have them to share though... I am sure someone probably downloaded them. Wont help for the best stuff that I haven't shown yet though :)

js33
08-09-2016, 12:06 AM
Thatīs how mankind does it..or how to make a Bible:D if you add over 3000 years it will be sure will be fine and dandy..yes sir..no question about that (with a silly southern accent :) )

Regarding bryphis tutes...
those are mostly just the rendered finished results, as far as I can see..most tutorials are removed.

Yes the bible is a lot of campfire stories with 2-3000 years of time to bake.

Yeah your right. I bookmarked the page the other day and didn't look at closely as I was going to come back to it.
Bryphi where did all your tuts go?

js33
08-09-2016, 12:10 AM
They are not available there. Some smart copyright infringer may have them to share though... I am sure someone probably downloaded them. Wont help for the best stuff that I haven't shown yet though :)

Do you plan to put them out for sale? I don't think most people would mind paying if the price isn't too high but the value is.
What made you pull most of the tuts off your site? Was someone taking them and trying to sell them? That would do it for me.

What would be cool is if you or someone made a mograph plugin for Lightwave like Maya has. As you said in another thread it may not be possible in LW until it can generate geometry procedurally.

50one
08-09-2016, 12:37 AM
Do you plan to put them out for sale? I don't think most people would mind paying if the price isn't too high but the value is.
What made you pull most of the tuts off your site? Was someone taking them and trying to sell them? That would do it for me.

What would be cool is if you or someone made a mograph plugin for Lightwave like Maya has. As you said in another thread it may not be possible in LW until it can generate geometry procedurally.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?150897-Presets-and-Wiki/page3


Page 2 onwards.

prometheus
08-09-2016, 12:40 AM
They are not available there. Some smart copyright infringer may have them to share though... I am sure someone probably downloaded them. Wont help for the best stuff that I haven't shown yet though :)

A website page..like wix perhaps, pretty easy nowadays and more options to edit, make a nice design, and embedd the youtube or vimeo vids in various sections, and make a donate paypal button on every page..make sure you get some donations before you start promoting new upcoming tutes.

I did however notice somewhere where you mention you do not wanīt to make them commercial..and if paypal donate includes that or not?
If itīs not much of trouble or taking to much time, that is my suggestion to make most uf us happy, and also ensure you get at least a little contributed.

I would also like to put out an urging to the Lightwave group, to encourage you to continue your tutes and re-upload or put on a site somewhere, but they should do so with attributes of either discount of lightwave, or some plugin they can bundle for you, or at least privatly communicate to you when the next release is expected..for your eyes only that is...thatīs not much though since we all should and wantīt to hear such news.

Then again, if you arenīt motivated by various reasons? then thereīs not much we can do but sob..and wish you :goodluck:
perhaps you just need a long rest from it all and take care of other things...just hoping that will motivate you to put up the stuff again...and new stuff.

So many of us that may belong to the ungrateful pack, some unintentional..

jeric_synergy
08-09-2016, 12:42 AM
What would be cool is if you or someone made a mograph plugin for Lightwave like Maya has. As you said in another thread it may not be possible in LW until it can generate geometry procedurally.
You know that Sensei created a plugin that makes text on the fly in Layout, right?


http://www2.trueart.pl/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/TrueTypeText

I'd really like to see someone use DPKit Part Move with Sensei's plugin- that would be verrrry interesting. Sensei?

prometheus
08-09-2016, 12:52 AM
You know that Sensei created a plugin that makes text on the fly in Layout, right?


http://www2.trueart.pl/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/TrueTypeText

I think this one may be more powerful, though the difference is that sensei has His for sale now, and emulyatorīs is in a experimental stage still as I know of...but he seem to have some very very interesting obj replacement or displacement node control stuff going on ..seemingly non destructive and in layout, think he may need to make the UI a bit cleaner and softer to use somehow though.
I am also curious how these developers will be able to continue with these plugins when the new lightwave geo engine shows up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO7ueQZdxvQ

https://www.youtube.com/user/Emulyator/videos?shelf_id=1&view=0&sort=dd

js33
08-09-2016, 12:53 AM
You know that Sensei created a plugin that makes text on the fly in Layout, right?


http://www2.trueart.pl/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/TrueTypeText

Yeah I remember seeing that but it doesn't do mograph. This is what I am talking about.

These effects look a lot like bryphi's tuts but it is built-in to Maya now and allows you to easily create mograph effects.
I imagine byrphi used a lot of the same techniques in LW but had to do it more manually.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xetf8KqDF5c

js33
08-09-2016, 01:00 AM
A website page..like wix perhaps, pretty easy nowadays and more options to edit, make a nice design, and embedd the youtube or vimeo vids in various sections, and make a donate paypal button on every page..make sure you get some donations before you start promoting new upcoming tutes.

I did however notice somewhere where you mention you do not wanīt to make them commercial..and if paypal donate includes that or not?
If itīs not much of trouble or taking to much time, that is my suggestion to make most uf us happy, and also ensure you get at least a little contributed.

I would also like to put out an urging to the Lightwave group, to encourage you to continue your tutes and re-upload or put on a site somewhere, but they should do so with attributes of either discount of lightwave, or some plugin they can bundle for you, or at least privatly communicate to you when the next release is expected..for your eyes only that is...thatīs not much though since we all should and wantīt to hear such news.

Then again, if you arenīt motivated by various reasons? then thereīs not much we can do but sob..and wish you :goodluck:
perhaps you just need a long rest from it all and take care of other things...just hoping that will motivate you to put up the stuff again...and new stuff.

So many of us that may belong to the ungrateful pack, some unintentional..

I remember looking at his YT page a couple months ago and I said I'm going to go there when I get some time and do some of his tuts but now they are all gone. :oye:

I agree with you he should put them on a website and ask for donations. Plus he can lock down the content so it can't be downloaded easily like YT can.

darkChief
08-09-2016, 02:19 AM
I think this one may be more powerful, though the difference is that sensei has His for sale now, and emulyatorīs is in a experimental stage still as I know of...but he seem to have some very very interesting obj replacement or displacement node control stuff going on ..seemingly non destructive and in layout, think he may need to make the UI a bit cleaner and softer to use somehow though.
I am also curious how these developers will be able to continue with these plugins when the new lightwave geo engine shows up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO7ueQZdxvQ

https://www.youtube.com/user/Emulyator/videos?shelf_id=1&view=0&sort=dd

I'm personally looking forward to the new SDK. If its backwards compatible great, even so Im guessing people will still port their code. Compared to Modeler, Layouts mesh stuff is lacking. Having modelers power in Layout opens up new possibilities, and gets rid of a lot of hacks.

js33
08-09-2016, 03:15 AM
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?150897-Presets-and-Wiki/page3


Page 2 onwards.

Ok I'm up to speed on bryphi now. Thanks.

jeric_synergy
08-09-2016, 08:19 AM
Yeah I remember seeing that but it doesn't do mograph.
I'm wondering what you're basing that on-- it's LW geometry, all the DPKit tools should work on it, and IIRC I've seen that demo'd.

"Doing mograph" is pretty vaugue too: it's more a style than a particular, specific effect.

Certainly some of the parameters may not be animatable, but.... we're used to THAT.

js33
08-09-2016, 04:37 PM
I'm wondering what you're basing that on-- it's LW geometry, all the DPKit tools should work on it, and IIRC I've seen that demo'd.

"Doing mograph" is pretty vaugue too: it's more a style than a particular, specific effect.

Certainly some of the parameters may not be animatable, but.... we're used to THAT.

Did you watch the Maya video I posted above? That is mograph I'm talking about. Now it would be cool if someone could develop a plugin for LW that would do stuff like that but I don't know if it's possible in LW.

jeric_synergy
08-09-2016, 08:33 PM
.... ok, I bailed at "procedural"-- I just don't think we have the architecture to support that level of quick interaction.

BTW, that video really made me want Maya. ::sigh:: Well, were I making any money at this.

Prince Charming
08-09-2016, 08:44 PM
Did you watch the Maya video I posted above? That is mograph I'm talking about. Now it would be cool if someone could develop a plugin for LW that would do stuff like that but I don't know if it's possible in LW.

Everything done in that maya vid with the exception of the edge instancing is easily doable in LW already. You just need to set up nodes and controls for it manually. As far as doing stuff like this in LW it is more of a Houdini type workflow, where that maya plug seems more like c4ds mograph module. Even that instance edge effect could be done differently in LW, but could give similar results.

js33
08-09-2016, 08:50 PM
Everything done in that maya vid with the exception of the edge instancing is easily doable in LW already. You just need to set up nodes and controls for it manually. As far as doing stuff like this in LW it is more of a Houdini type workflow, where that maya plug seems more like c4ds mograph module. Even that instance edge effect could be done differently in LW, but could give similar results.

Yeah like I said I imagine you are doing mostly the same thing in LW but you have to set it all up manually. Maybe you should try to develop a plugin for LW that can automate your setups. Now that would bring you a lot of money rather than doing tuts.

js33
08-09-2016, 08:52 PM
.... ok, I bailed at "procedural"-- I just don't think we have the architecture to support that level of quick interaction.

BTW, that video really made me want Maya. ::sigh:: Well, were I making any money at this.

Yeah that video made me want Maya also.

I don't know if the LW SDK would allow someone to make a plugin like that for LW.

prometheus
08-09-2016, 09:29 PM
The maya mograph demonstration is cool, but I think I am most impressed of the viewport render options..In realtime, fog, depth of field, ambient occlusion..
The ambient occlusion in blender is pretty nice and really makes a difference when you sculpt rockīs for instance and you want a realistic feedback on the cavity etc.

Dontīget why we need to check studio live to have lightwave respond in realtime in opengl with update of instances controlled by nulls for instance.
For lightwave...why do we even have to activate studio live to get a null to act similar to the influence node shown in the maya vid, once you activate studio live, throw in a null and use distance to object gradient in the scale channel, enter rotation channels and set up a gradient to do the same, same for offset, if we could have things like this built, (I am sure with some scripting it shouldnīt be hard) it would help out a bit...but doing the above covers the initial showcase for scaling influence node in lightwave, unfortunatly..not until we can add a procedural modeling grid with non destructive modifer, only then we can start to get somewhere and with some other tools as well.
they also show instances on edges, which you can do up to a certain point by copying edges from text and emitt particle from object line and instance those.

Though we can see some pretty cool results and seemingly non destructive object replacement or deform stuff with nodes from Emelyator, the UI isnīt very pretty exactly, not compared to how maya makes it so easy to work with, in fact I would probably not invest in that plugin unless it becomes way more UI friendly, would rather see if I should invest in maya or houdini instead.

I am no scripter myself ..just using some ls commander hacks to import some modeling tools to layout..which worked good enough, will continue to look at some more of that..what I would want though regarding bullet items, they are made in such way that you always have to select an item or add an item first in order to use forcefields, it shouldnīt really be that tedious, I wonder why they didnīt make add forcefield, add explosion, add vortex...to me it seems like saving time of not doing it, or saving menu space, but for a workflow..it is prefered to have add explosion force and off you go..may seem like a no big deal, but things like that you know.
Also simple things like, add camera with camera target, thereīs actually one who made a script for that, instead of setting it up with a null and enter camera motion then target etc.

Michael

js33
08-09-2016, 09:42 PM
Well one thing is true, right now this is what LW is competing against. C4D and Maya can do these things now in realtime.

In LW it takes a lot of knowledge and tedious setup to achieve anything close and a lot of R&D that bryphi has done.

I think LW needs a plugin that can create such effects and it needs to be easy and fast to use. If LW had something like this it would attract a lot more users, imho.

Prince Charming
08-09-2016, 09:49 PM
Yeah like I said I imagine you are doing mostly the same thing in LW but you have to set it all up manually. Maybe you should try to develop a plugin for LW that can automate your setups. Now that would bring you a lot of money rather than doing tuts.

Thing is... I would rather use nodes. With plugins like that you will only be able to do the things the plug is designed to do. There could never be one plug that could automate the setups that I do. Some of them maybe... but you would lose a lot of functionality in the process. C4ds mograph module is about the best you are going to get other than nodes IMO. Even with that you end up with many people doing very similar looking fx. What would be really good would be having something like Houdini digital assets, and compound node capabilities, but LW is so far from that... it will never happen.


How do you make a plug that could cover all these animations? Its not realistic... Houdini style compounds would be the best option.
https://youtu.be/gVXaPTGAeuM
https://youtu.be/Yua7tSb-mZo
https://youtu.be/OljEpTXWT0o
https://youtu.be/Afl2u4VlCak

Prince Charming
08-09-2016, 09:58 PM
The maya mograph demonstration is cool, but I think I am most impressed of the viewport render options..In realtime, fog, depth of field, ambient occlusion..
The ambient occlusion in blender is pretty nice and really makes a difference when you sculpt rockīs for instance and you want a realistic feedback on the cavity etc.

Dontīget why we need to check studio live to have lightwave respond in realtime in opengl with update of instances controlled by nulls for instance.
For lightwave...why do we even have to activate studio live to get a null to act similar to the influence node shown in the maya vid, once you activate studio live, throw in a null and use distance to object gradient in the scale channel, enter rotation channels and set up a gradient to do the same, same for offset, if we could have things like this built, (I am sure with some scripting it shouldnīt be hard) it would help out a bit...but doing the above covers the initial showcase for scaling influence node in lightwave, unfortunatly..not until we can add a procedural modeling grid with non destructive modifer, only then we can start to get somewhere and with some other tools as well.
they also show instances on edges, which you can do up to a certain point by copying edges from text and emitt particle from object line and instance those.

Though we can see some pretty cool results and seemingly non destructive object replacement or deform stuff with nodes from Emelyator, the UI isnīt very pretty exactly, not compared to how maya makes it so easy to work with, in fact I would probably not invest in that plugin unless it becomes way more UI friendly, would rather see if I should invest in maya or houdini instead.

I am no scripter myself ..just using some ls commander hacks to import some modeling tools to layout..which worked good enough, will continue to look at some more of that..what I would want though regarding bullet items, they are made in such way that you always have to select an item or add an item first in order to use forcefields, it shouldnīt really be that tedious, I wonder why they didnīt make add forcefield, add explosion, add vortex...to me it seems like saving time of not doing it, or saving menu space, but for a workflow..it is prefered to have add explosion force and off you go..may seem like a no big deal, but things like that you know.
Also simple things like, add camera with camera target, thereīs actually one who made a script for that, instead of setting it up with a null and enter camera motion then target etc.

Michael

Some stuff you dont need studio live for, and some you do... It does really slow performce to a craw if you need it. Lately I have been just leaving it off and scrubbing the timeline for an update. The more complex the scene is the more it bogs down. It is crap way to have to work. I agree 100% with the ogl previews they are so far behind the others... BAD!... I really hope that is one thing that gets some love in this update.

prometheus
08-09-2016, 10:18 PM
Some stuff you dont need studio live for, and some you do... It does really slow performce to a craw if you need it. Lately I have been just leaving it off and scrubbing the timeline for an update. The more complex the scene is the more it bogs down. It is crap way to have to work. I agree 100% with the ogl previews they are so far behind the others... BAD!... I really hope that is one thing that gets some love in this update.

yes..I know that..some you need it for and some you donīt, but mostly I just canīt use it with vpr, since that will cause stuttering etc, but In a showcase to do a null influence reacting in realtime with scaling instace cubes, as in the maya vid, you have to turn it on to see it react upon that in realtime..in Opengl that is...we shouldnīt have to ofcourse.

js33
08-09-2016, 11:20 PM
Thing is... I would rather use nodes. With plugins like that you will only be able to do the things the plug is designed to do. There could never be one plug that could automate the setups that I do. Some of them maybe... but you would lose a lot of functionality in the process. C4ds mograph module is about the best you are going to get other than nodes IMO. Even with that you end up with many people doing very similar looking fx. What would be really good would be having something like Houdini digital assets, and compound node capabilities, but LW is so far from that... it will never happen.


How do you make a plug that could cover all these animations? Its not realistic... Houdini style compounds would be the best option.
https://youtu.be/gVXaPTGAeuM
https://youtu.be/Yua7tSb-mZo
https://youtu.be/OljEpTXWT0o
https://youtu.be/Afl2u4VlCak

Yeah I agree for maximum flexibility your methods are probably better but for the casual user to be able to get something close, fast with minimal effort, would work well.
I was asking awhile back if anyone was going to port Houdini engine to LW. That would probably go along way to getting something like the Maya video in LW.

I never realized you could do Houdini type animation with LW nodes until I saw your vids. Did you learn how to do all that by trial and error or did you start with someone elses tuts?

Prince Charming
08-09-2016, 11:38 PM
Yeah I agree for maximum flexibility your methods are probably better but for the casual user to be able to get something close, fast with minimal effort, would work well.
I was asking awhile back if anyone was going to port Houdini engine to LW. That would probably go along way to getting something like the Maya video in LW.

I never realized you could do Houdini type animation with LW nodes until I saw your vids. Did you learn how to do all that by trial and error or did you start with someone elses tuts?

I started using dponts nodes and nodes in general from day one. Also, lots of experimenting in the beginning. The tools have not changed drastically for some time now... So now I pretty much know what is possible and what isn't.
In all honestly... It was a bit of luck and trial and error that I stumbled upon some workflows that make much of this stuff possible. For example dps "mdd cache node", and "part move" used together are probably one of the most powerful features in LW at this point for motion graphics. It makes things possible that would be real hard to do in any other app... Even in Houdini some of this stuff would take much longer to set up.

js33
08-09-2016, 11:45 PM
Cool thanks. I'm going to start playing with nodes. Too bad your tuts aren't still available. Did you see where I mentioned you should sell your existing tuts on Lynda.com, Digital Tutors or some sites like that. Since you have already made them you wouldn't have to invest new time and could leverage what you have already done. Wouldn't hurt to try it.

Prince Charming
08-10-2016, 12:36 AM
Cool thanks. I'm going to start playing with nodes. Too bad your tuts aren't still available. Did you see where I mentioned you should sell your existing tuts on Lynda.com, Digital Tutors or some sites like that. Since you have already made them you wouldn't have to invest new time and could leverage what you have already done. Wouldn't hurt to try it.

If you have a youtube account... you can pick 1 or 2 that you want to see and I will put you on the share list. Not till 2morrow though casue its 2:30 and I have to be up at 7 :oye:

js33
08-10-2016, 12:51 AM
If you have a youtube account... you can pick 1 or 2 that you want to see and I will put you on the share list. Not till 2morrow though casue its 2:30 and I have to be up at 7 :oye:

OK thanks. I'll let you know tomorrow. I think if I go through a couple I will be able to take it from there.

Sensei
08-19-2016, 06:51 AM
You know that Sensei created a plugin that makes text on the fly in Layout, right?


http://www2.trueart.pl/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/TrueTypeText

I'd really like to see someone use DPKit Part Move with Sensei's plugin- that would be verrrry interesting. Sensei?

You don't need DP Move..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow7Um2ks0Ek


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow7Um2ks0Ek

http://truetypetext.trueart.eu

At any time you can use Save Transformed Object, and use whatever you like with "baked" text.
Even Layout/Modeler/3rd party app, on which there is no installed plugin.

jeric_synergy
08-19-2016, 09:20 AM
OH! Right! I keep forgetting about the automatic weighting! Makes things SO controllable. Extremely good feature. :thumbsup:



(grrrr still no "msg icon=thumbsup", danggit....)