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jeric_synergy
08-01-2016, 07:05 PM
I was surprised to find out that Instance generated in POINT mode inherit the scaling of their Instancer object. (!!!) :eek:

I figured that the points could move about, but that the instances would retain the scale of their source object, not the Instancer object.

Besides jumping into nodal placement, is there a way to isolate the Instance from the scale of the Instancer object??

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Nonetheless, I decided to try to compensate for the scaling of the instancing object via nodes. One thing that threw me is: why are the scaling inputs GREEN (scalar?) rather than BLUE (vector)?

It would seem possible to apply the reciprocal of the scale of the instancer to the STRETCH inputs of the instances, but that doesn't work...

133898

jeric_synergy
08-02-2016, 12:55 AM
Mike Green ( hattip!) was giving me some help with this, but I couldn't get his solution to work. Heading off to bed, if someone in Europe wants to take a stab at this, here's the Scene:

133899

Dodgy
08-02-2016, 01:23 AM
It's because Stretch has 0 as its base line. You need to subtract <1,1,1> from the divide node to get the value you want.

Mike

jeric_synergy
08-02-2016, 10:51 PM
With Mike Green's tutelage in place, here's the working network. To recap:


Scaling the Instancer Object to space or distribute the instances when placed in POINT MODE causes the instances themselves to scale.
By using nodal compensation, you can scale the instances DOWN when the instancer object scales UP, leaving a net change of zero.
BUT, it's a bit tricky, because the STRETCH parameter is not quite the same as SCALE, and starts at ZERO rather than 1 to indicate no change.


OR, you can use DP INSTANCE, which has this facility built in, as a mode.

Here's the scene. -133903

Prince Charming
08-03-2016, 12:02 AM
With Mike Green's tutelage in place, here's the working network. To recap:


Scaling the Instancer Object to space or distribute the instances when placed in POINT MODE causes the instances themselves to scale.
By using nodal compensation, you can scale the instances DOWN when the instancer object scales UP, leaving a net change of zero.
BUT, it's a bit tricky, because the STRETCH parameter is not quite the same as SCALE, and starts at ZERO rather than 1 to indicate no change.


OR, you can use DP INSTANCE, which has this facility built in, as a mode.

Here's the scene. -133903

I was going to suggest dp instance from the start, but I figured id let you struggle for awhile :) Just kidding, I thought you wanted to use the native.
Dp instance doesnt look as pretty, but it is so far superior in so many ways that I have yet to even use lightwave instancer... other than to learn it enough to realize it was far inferior. I bet they copy some of its features in the next release... or at least hope they do. Especially getting the reference index nodal option.

jeric_synergy
08-03-2016, 12:40 AM
I was going to suggest dp instance from the start, but I figured id let you struggle for awhile :) Just kidding, I thought you wanted to use the native.
Dp instance doesnt look as pretty, but it is so far superior in so many ways that I have yet to even use lightwave instancer... other than to learn it enough to realize it was far inferior. I bet they copy some of its features in the next release... or at least hope they do. Especially getting the reference index nodal option.
You're right, it is inferior, and while the native interface may be standardized over various subsystems (Bullet, FFX, more?), the trouble is, that interface is CRAP.

I could go on for quite a while, but let's just take ONE look, at the cherry on top of this crap sundae: the total lack of RMB functions in the Instance Generator list. W.T.F? It's the 21st Century, this looks like 1995.

It's beyond comprehension. Did someone say "Yep, this is GREAT! Let's use this several times!"??? --It's not. It is BAD.

I do want to nag them. I don't think they notice, but it keeps my arteries clear. Besides, if I keep a list, I can use it as resume material for some software company.

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And I still don't know why in POINT mode the scaling of the instancer object would affect the instances, but I'm taking it as a given at this point.

Plus, I got a lot of schooling on this from Dodgy, so it was quite educational.

Thomas Leitner
08-03-2016, 02:04 AM
.....And I still don't know why in POINT mode the scaling of the instancer object would affect the instances, but I'm taking it as a given at this point...

Hi,
the scaling of the instancer object always does affect the instances, not only in Point mode.
And thatīs how it should work. Imagine a tree with instanced leaves. If you scale the tree you really want the leaves to grow also.

ciao
Thomas

p.s.: another solution for your special case would be to use a morph instead of scaling your object.

Prince Charming
08-03-2016, 12:42 PM
Hi,
the scaling of the instancer object always does affect the instances, not only in Point mode.
And thatīs how it should work. Imagine a tree with instanced leaves. If you scale the tree you really want the leaves to grow also.

ciao
Thomas

p.s.: another solution for your special case would be to use a morph instead of scaling your object.

I have needed both functionality about the same amount of times. For motion graphics type fx (where instances are used a lot of times) it is very useful to be able to disconnect the scale from the instancer object. Luckily it can be done with nodes in both dp and native.

Thomas Leitner
08-03-2016, 01:49 PM
I have needed both functionality about the same amount of times. For motion graphics type fx (where instances are used a lot of times) it is very useful to be able to disconnect the scale from the instancer object. Luckily it can be done with nodes in both dp and native.

Of course, we need both. I only wanted to explain why this is so.

ciao
Thomas

jeric_synergy
08-03-2016, 03:44 PM
Luckily it can be done with nodes in both dp and native.
With DP Instance you don't even need to get into nodes: there's a mode that supports the separation right in the plugin UI.

Basically, Denis saw one would need it both ways and supplied the solution. Apparently this escaped the attention of LWG.

Prince Charming
08-03-2016, 04:14 PM
With DP Instance you don't even need to get into nodes: there's a mode that supports the separation right in the plugin UI.

Basically, Denis saw one would need it both ways and supplied the solution. Apparently this escaped the attention of LWG.

I know, but it can be done with nodes as well. Denis has seen a lot of things that have escaped not only LWG, but other companies as well. Shame that LWG does not make better use of him.

jeric_synergy
08-06-2016, 01:25 AM
So, Mike Green got me past that little puzzle (not a paying gig, just a question), but it raised another:

WHY is the input to the Instance node STRETCH instead of SCALE??? They seem to rather accomplish the same thing, but stretch starts at zero while scale starts at 1.00.

Why add this seemingly pointless complication? :stumped: