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samurai_x
07-29-2016, 10:34 PM
http://www.fstormrender.com/gallery looks high quality.

http://www.fstormrender.com/Images/Gallery/Big/mls2.jpg

jwiede
08-01-2016, 01:40 PM
Just for info:

https://m.otoy.com/OTOYvKozlovPinkSoft-PublicNoticeofInjunctiveRelief.pdf

js33
08-01-2016, 03:28 PM
That's unfortunate however Otoy should be praising Fstorm for being able to produce cleaner images than Octane in less time. Or dare I say better images.

kopperdrake
08-01-2016, 04:39 PM
There's never an excuse for stealing code - I can't imagine I'd be praising anyone stealing my work and making money from it, better or not. It's theft and shows a lack of morals. The injunction post mentions "substantial portions of OctaneRender source code" - that implies more than a few copy and pasted routines. Shame really - if Kozlov really is that intelligent enough to start up on his own, then he really should have come up with something new.

js33
08-01-2016, 06:35 PM
I'm not praising him for stealing code if he actually did but for making better looking renders than Otoy is able to.

m.d.
08-01-2016, 06:50 PM
I am sure someone who steals code, is not above adding a little noise removal to his internet gallery

js33
08-01-2016, 07:01 PM
Well that's probably true but you can't deny the quality of their images.

samurai_x
08-01-2016, 09:23 PM
Just for info:

https://m.otoy.com/OTOYvKozlovPinkSoft-PublicNoticeofInjunctiveRelief.pdf


Wow! Too bad it looks really good.
Wonder if Modo uses some copyrighted code from Lightwave. Were the ex-lightwave devs smart enough to own the code before they started coding lighwave and planned to create modo in the future.

BokadCastle
08-01-2016, 11:53 PM
I've bought Octane so I feel my investment somewhat diminished when this happens.
Were NDAs in place? (Non Disclosure Agreements)

m.d.
08-02-2016, 12:52 AM
NDA's aren't really specific to this case. You are free to 'disclose' in most cases, just not to outright copy.
Take for instance Octane's grievance with blender cycles developer.....not verbatim copying source code....but undoubtedly using some things he had learned from octane development IP.
Brecht van Lommel joined Octane from blender, and left 2 weeks later (allegedly with the source code)....4 months later releasing Blender cycles. Quite quick for a new render engine from scratch. (just ask kray developers :))

Brecht has since went on to Arnold renderer.....


This specific developer wasn't accused with disclosing anything....but copy/pasting intellectual property.
This is the first case to go to court, and probably the first one dumb enough to actually use large amounts of source code

m.d.
08-02-2016, 12:59 AM
Well that's probably true but you can't deny the quality of their images.

about 30 images total....I wouldnt say that sample size would demonstrate a superior quality to octane......but ya impressive images

Looks like from the manual it's an octane clone with adaptive sampling added (would be nice), and the fact that they are accusing him of directly lifting code would kinda support that.

BokadCastle
08-02-2016, 01:16 AM
Thanks for your knowledge...."and the fact that they are accusing him of directly lifting code would kinda support that." - Gosh, what to say.

m.d.
08-02-2016, 01:55 AM
Digging into this further, it looks like the only code fstorm admits to using is from the 3dsmax plugin.
It is a little suspicious the progress he made after leaving Otoy in 1 year...but that stuff is harder to prove.

That being said , I'm sure this stings reminiscent of Brecht and their lawyers are going to take him to task.
A judge has already granted an injunction to halt sales and downloads of fstorm

zapper1998
08-02-2016, 04:29 AM
Digging into this further, it looks like the only code fstorm admits to using is from the 3dsmax plugin.
It is a little suspicious the progress he made after leaving Otoy in 1 year...but that stuff is harder to prove.

That being said , I'm sure this stings reminiscent of Brecht and their lawyers are going to take him to task.
A judge has already granted an injunction to halt sales and downloads of fstorm

wowsers

MichaelT
08-02-2016, 06:14 AM
Wow! Too bad it looks really good.
Wonder if Modo uses some copyrighted code from Lightwave. Were the ex-lightwave devs smart enough to own the code before they started coding lighwave and planned to create modo in the future.

It is very unlikely you will get an answer to that. In any case, I think if there was anything shady, steps would have been taken long ago. I have a similar case way back, when I worked for another company.
I had a contract agreement, saying I could keep what I coded. So if (and when) I left, I could use that code myself. Could be something similar. That type of agreement is very rare, and usually only when they
are good friends. But like I said, I don't think you will get an answer to that one. But I very much doubt LWG doesn't already know, and their silence suggests to me that it probably is OK anyway.

MichaelT
08-02-2016, 06:24 AM
If they found code that belongs to them in his product, it is still a violation. Besides, I would be very surprised if there isn't a clause in his contract with Otoy, stipulating what he can do with the knowledge he obtained during his time there. Usually there is a time constraint too. Let's hope this doesn't lead Otoy to overreacting, regarding their other employees.

m.d.
08-02-2016, 06:54 AM
Doesn't sound like the developer is too concerned, as it was a New Zealand court that granted the injunction (octanes previous owners were kiwi) and fstorm development is in Russia......the developer stated in the forums that the impact will be him loosing some New Zealand customers. As far as I can see you can still download the app from his site.

Not sure how IP law can be enforced on digital products, downloaded and not traveling across borders.(well not through customs anyway) Hasn't ever stopped a torrent

Niko3D
08-02-2016, 07:23 AM
The strange thing is you can download it right now...and the last update is in 25.07.2016

http://www.fstormrender.com/downloads

m.d.
08-02-2016, 08:48 AM
The strange thing is you can download it right now...and the last update is in 25.07.2016

http://www.fstormrender.com/downloads

Like I said in the previous post....New Zealand court....Russian developer. NZ ruling doesn't have the same teeth as US/EU. It literally may have no effect...kinda like stopping fake Gucci bags, but ultimately harder as everything is digital and instant.

EDIT:
I realize comparing fstorm to a fake Gucci bag is a bit harsh...
There is 2 sides to every story, and the developer may well be the victim here. I'll reserve judgment when more facts come out.
There's no doubt the developer was previously a huge part of octane, and gave the users something they had been asking for, and I had been suggesting for more than a year...adaptive sampling. Unfortunately he put it into another renderer.

jwiede
08-02-2016, 12:41 PM
Wonder if Modo uses some copyrighted code from Lightwave. Were the ex-lightwave devs smart enough to own the code before they started coding lighwave and planned to create modo in the future.

Very brief version, since this has been discussed to death in past: Both Lightwave 3D (Newtek) and MODO (The Foundry) legitimately use code owned by and licensed from Hastings and Ferguson (as Aegis Software). Hastings and Ferguson retained rights to reuse the code in question.

samurai_x
11-02-2016, 01:45 AM
Any update on Andrey Kozlov case with Otoy?
http://www.fstormrender.ru/forum/forum/off-topic/1703-andrey-kozlov-vs-otoy

Doesn't seem to be the first time Otoy sued ex devs.
http://christopheremoore.net/otoy/

S0nny
11-02-2016, 06:28 AM
There is a big post on ronenbekerman blog about this, it worth a reading.

Take it with a grain of salt, but as far as my understanding goes it seems that is not an uber-difficult task (for skilled devs) to write a pure gpu unbiased render code, because it doesn't require much trickery like the biased ones.
And because there's not much optimization that can be done at its core function, unbiased renders will suffers all the same problem: higher rendertime in some particular scenarios like indirect illumination/interiors, to get rid of the noise.

Now, I remember some Fstorm kitchen benchmark on corona forum or somewhere else some time ago, and the big surprise from users was that Fstorm was quicker even in those critical situations because of its sampling method. In all honesty I'm pretty sure that render times for production high-res images are nothing miraculous, or at least in par with others for said reasons.

Nothing to say qualitywise though, it looks really good, much more like corona than octane. Just looking at how the shaders works there's a big difference, in a better way.

samurai_x
11-02-2016, 10:14 PM
Yeah fstorm looks really good. And people seem to be using it despite the nz court issue.
I think Otoy can't stop the dev from selling this renderer.

samurai_x
11-06-2016, 09:01 PM
Looking good.

http://www.fstormrender.ru/Images/Gallery/Big/pls0.jpg

http://www.fstormrender.ru/Images/Gallery/Big/ggl1.jpg

Doesn't seem fast compared to redshift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr-3S5O5m4o