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OnlineRender
07-28-2016, 04:54 AM
I've took the decision to kill both the preset site and the wiki, it's sat there for nearly 6 months without anybody uploading or contributing.
I believe the fundamentals changes regarding LWNEXT will also make both sites redundant "in a good way"

I want to thank guys like DJ , Rene and others for taking the time to help out

You can download all presets here http://3dxyz.pro/Presets.zip

if you need the wiki use wayback machine
http://web.archive.org/web/20160121143247/http://www.lightwiki.com/wiki/LightWave_History

if you need a community goto www.facebook.com/groups/lightwiki , your admins will take good care of you.

cheers and sorry

Marander
07-28-2016, 06:22 AM
Thanks OnlineRender for your efforts and also for making the presets available as zip file. Cheers!

prometheus
07-29-2016, 10:49 AM
Thanks too OnlineRender for what you tried to do there, and absolutly great that you compiled all that to a zip file.
I would like to say something though about why I personally hardly never visited that site, nor uploaded presets, not sure if that is of any use for you or if you really should take any notice about it..but anyway..

1. I felt the acess to the site was slow or if it was loading to much of something that made it slow.

2. Another part was that I thought there might have been too much of octane presets..at least intitially

3. I myself was annoyed over the fact that the lightwave3d page didnīt have the preset site available as a link, not what I could see..I mentioned this over and over several times in the forums, but nothing happened...I do however see it now in the third party section, not in the community section, I thought that was a little lame from those who managed the lw site...If I am wrong about that.and if it has been there somewhere for quite a while, in such Case I would apologize for such thinking.

those were some factors for me that sort of didnīt get me to visit the site often, canīt speak for anyone else than me though.
I was actually about to put your preset page in my lightwave jumpgate page..which I just mocked up quickly for anyone who wantīs to acess just lightwave related forums and do without other newtek stuff..

PROMETHEUS JUMPGATE TO LIGHTWAVE...
http://michaeli65.wix.com/prometheus


IT was not here...
https://www.lightwave3d.com/community/

But here...
https://www.lightwave3d.com/third_party/

djwaterman
07-29-2016, 12:48 PM
Well we tried, I personally loaded some of those libraries into my surface presets and they could be pretty handy. And the surface testing scene is still a pretty good little place to try out surfaces. I was always a little disappointed that the LW community didn't contribute more to the experiment. I look forward to the new surfacing in LW and hopefully it makes surface presets redundant to some extent. Perhaps it will make the creation of credible surface materials less of a dark art, maybe that is why people didn't feel confident enough to submit more presets.

prometheus
07-29-2016, 12:59 PM
Well we tried, I personally loaded some of those libraries into my surface presets and they could be pretty handy. And the surface testing scene is still a pretty good little place to try out surfaces. I was always a little disappointed that the LW community didn't contribute more to the experiment. I look forward to the new surfacing in LW and hopefully it makes surface presets redundant to some extent. Perhaps it will make the creation of credible surface materials less of a dark art, maybe that is why people didn't feel confident enough to submit more presets.

Maybe..but If I think more about it, I donīt believe so, in such case we wouldnīt have gotten preset uploaders to the old presetcentral either, that wasnīt really the case in my opinion, I would probably uploaded presets if the sites were good enough, and in my opinion I had some isssues with them, I only uploaded perhaps 3 presets of voxel presets to the old preset central, then the old preset central changed and I didnīt like the way you had to filter stuff to get to your desired group, thus I simply wouldnīt bother with that site, the 3dxyz arrived, and I thought it was designed with to large presets and in a similar way as blog posts, and it was slow and too much of octane materials in the beginning perhaps, didnīt like to browse around there, thus it wasnīt a pleasure to browse and consequently I didnīt bother to be active and post either.

I really do appreciate the work they did..and that was great, but I really wasnīt fond of them because of all that mentioned above.
I actually recall the first old preset central, which had a better filter system

I wouldnīt consider insecurity on how a surface would work to be an issue for me to not post, definitly not, so with that said and the above said, I just can not come to that conclusion you did, perhaps others chime in with you?
Michael

OnlineRender
07-29-2016, 01:12 PM
If at first you don't succeed you are clearly not cut out for it...

it had it's fault but it was better than f-all , agreed with the points above /\ , the fact I got burnt pretty bad of another LW users just added to the pile, the preset uploader was native and nice but alas, 6 years I have been doing this, I'm tired I get zero to no help for LW3DG, it costs me a small fortune and my family time is sidetracked because I spend half my time answering questions, I have one last trick up my sleeve if that doesn't work

prometheus
07-29-2016, 03:55 PM
If at first you don't succeed you are clearly not cut out for it...

it had it's fault but it was better than f-all , agreed with the points above /\ , the fact I got burnt pretty bad of another LW users just added to the pile, the preset uploader was native and nice but alas, 6 years I have been doing this, I'm tired I get zero to no help for LW3DG, it costs me a small fortune and my family time is sidetracked because I spend half my time answering questions, I have one last trick up my sleeve if that doesn't work

who is who that you respond to..or yourself? and what do you mean? by the first sentance?
I express thanks anyway for what you did and tried to do, sorry it didnīt get recognized better.

djwaterman
07-29-2016, 10:53 PM
I never had much difficulty with it, OnlineRender provided the site and everything needed to make it work, the LW community had been calling out for something like it, but when it came they didn't respond, didn't contribute and I'm chalking up it's failure squarely with the LW community that seemingly prefers squabbling to being productive.

OnlineRender
07-30-2016, 02:33 AM
, sorry it didnīt get recognized better.

it was more a dig at myself...
the site was well used, the main preset scene was downloaded over 30k times, total presets downloaded "the ones I could count,rather than dropbox links" was 100k downloads,site averaged 5k hits a month... the problem wasn't functionality or lack of interest , it goes a bit deeper than that.... however I've worked out a way to streamline all this, save me money and hopefully build something a little more coherent, but you are dealing with a very narrow bandwidth of users and if 90% of them are taking rather than giving , your'e screwed from the kickoff.

50one
07-30-2016, 03:28 AM
Thanks OnlineRender for all your hardwork!
You earned another beer, total number so far is 3.

pinkmouse
07-30-2016, 03:43 AM
I know it's lazyness, and it's all down to me, but good as the site was, it was just far too much fuss to upload a preset. It seemed that the preset scene kept changing, too many rules involved, and just too much to do. I don't mind sharing presets, (I do it frequently here), but it really needs to be properly curated so all the user has to do is just upload a surface and everything else is done either automatically or by a paid staff member. That's why I think this will only work if done by LW3DG.

But thanks for trying. :)

erikals
07-30-2016, 03:43 AM
in order to make it work you gotta be somewhat of a Maverick Leader

some of us walk that street
-people that deal with LightWave documentation
-people that deal with plugins
-people that deal with other LightWave projects

one thing i learned, took some time, but better late than never i guess, is...
getting people to contribute to something has to be done on their premises


there's no room for wishing or hoping   http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


remember, all leaders fail, but they continue their journey, either in a slightly different direction or in a completely new one

OnlineRender
07-30-2016, 06:27 AM
I think part of the problem is I'm always building on top of something , it's always a hack, wordpress is great but it involves shed loads of work to get it to function correctly, unlike a site that's developed from the ground up, this also reflects on speed "wp database queries are slow at times"

133871

prometheus
07-30-2016, 10:56 AM
it was more a dig at myself...
the site was well used, the main preset scene was downloaded over 30k times, total presets downloaded "the ones I could count,rather than dropbox links" was 100k downloads,site averaged 5k hits a month... the problem wasn't functionality or lack of interest , it goes a bit deeper than that.... however I've worked out a way to streamline all this, save me money and hopefully build something a little more coherent, but you are dealing with a very narrow bandwidth of users and if 90% of them are taking rather than giving , your'e screwed from the kickoff.

Well...you are probably right on much there, but as individuals, you can not speak for how I perceived it, I wasnīt fond of the larger blog look of it all, also thought it was slow, and what was mostly octane presets initially, but now I am just repeating myself to make that clear, I might be uniqe compared to others visiting there...who know.
I do know that I would rather have used the old preset central with itīs UI, but that may have been of total irrelevance for others..I donīt know.

I suspect it wasnīt just one factor here, but many others that counted in...if one factor was the overwhelming part of why the activity wasnīt there, I can only speculate...sure the sharing is also of importance, so that a lot of folks
drag their straw to the stack, that was obviously not happening after a while, people also need to have been awar of your preset site and with easy access, and that I spoke of seem to have been something that the lightwave group may have been able to support better?

So if someoned decides to do another site, what should we try and do to get it going?

1. do we need more support from the lw team on the whole thing?
2. is it just that users are lazy..or not willing to share?
3. or are users just afraid of posting, or simply hasnīt reached the level of skilled in order to put something of value there?


Just some thoughts...and questioning if there is something that needs to motivate people to add presets.

personally I thought and think that it should actually be a responsibility of the Lightwave group itself to provide and maintain a preset resource, on their own site, not scattered around elsewhere, and make it pretty darn visible for easy acess, ideally you could have some sort of content resource, which also is acessable through the software itself, just as we go for help content menu etc, you could have a content button, which opens a site on the lightwave3d page, to find all original presets as well as newer content, and one major section where the best ones is validated my the lw team or votest as highest ratings, then another one with all kinds else uploaded.

THE PROMETHEUS LIGHTWAVE JUMPGATE..
http://michaeli65.wix.com/prometheus

Michael

prometheus
07-30-2016, 11:01 AM
in order to make it work you gotta be somewhat of a Maverick Leader

some of us walk that street
-people that deal with LightWave documentation
-people that deal with plugins
-people that deal with other LightWave projects

one thing i learned, took some time, but better late than never i guess, is...
getting people to contribute to something has to be done on their premises


there's no room for wishing or hoping   http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


remember, all leaders fail, but they continue their journey, either in a slightly different direction or in a completely new one

Wise words, though some modification may bring more truth to the statements ..Some leaders fail is better suited in your case statement, but if you go for all leaders fail, you really should add ..some dies or give up (or carries on..as you already said :))
If you would have said, succesfull leaders... that would be enough thought...(god what is it with me)..maybe I got aspbergers..I knew what you ment anyway)
I agree completely on the "getting people to contribute part"

erikals
07-30-2016, 12:19 PM
nah, i'm sticking to all http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

we all fail, and move on.

i know many people would emphasis the sentence, but imo it goes without saying,
and it's important to remember just that, that not one single person walks the roads without failing.

hence, "all leaders fail" ... (and move on)

-----------------------

yeah, i have a job at the elementary school at the moment, and guiding/inspiring kids/people is no easy task http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

OnlineRender
07-30-2016, 12:28 PM
but you are a walking LW_GOD , we are just mortals

erikals
07-30-2016, 12:52 PM
plenty of stuff would be fixed Sir if i had the status of a God   http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

(...shuffles back to the corner to work on the time-machine)

jeric_synergy
07-30-2016, 01:19 PM
is done either automatically or by a paid staff member. That's why I think this will only work if done by LW3DG.

But thanks for trying. :)
I've been saying for YEARS, getting into decades, that LWG should PAY someone to be cultivating a range of "user shepherding" activities-- one issue is competent people MAY be able to find high paying work, but plenty wouldn't like it even if they could (it can be super stressful). That's an awkward way of saying LWG wouldn't have to pay coder, developer, or even animator wages to give someone a nice subsidy to keep things like OnlineRender's efforts viable. "Software Evangelists", in Apple-speak.

Just updating aging tutorials, that already exist, to show LW's current best practices would keep such a person busy for a long time.

But they need to get PAID. Bryphii's closed his tutes because of lack of compensation. I think he's wrong, and should look to RH to see how to do it profitably, but there it is.

prometheus
07-30-2016, 06:29 PM
yeah, i have a job at the elementary school at the moment, and guiding/inspiring kids/people is no easy task http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

And as lw god, You should learn the kids no other 3dsoftware than me, lightwave.:D

erikals
07-31-2016, 02:14 AM
Bryphii's closed his tutes because of lack of compensation. I think he's wrong, and should look to RH to see how to do it profitably, but there it is.
i've told him several times.  :)


And as lw god, You should learn the kids no other 3dsoftware than me, LightWave  :D
truth told i've been pondering how to do just that  :)


Just updating aging tutorials, that already exist, to show LW's current best practices would keep such a person busy for a long time.
very true, Proton's tutorial would be nice to see re-vamped. (wishfully by Proton himself, but he is too busy i think)

prometheus
07-31-2016, 02:25 AM
Did bryphi just closed his tutes?
that was said if he did that, unless he can manage to go pro and will provide that commercially somewhere else, then I donīt see where he would go would that, but who knows..itīs his choice.
Maybe his frustrated by not getting any new lw version :) or simply he should get some support from the lw group..considering the great amount he put up there and the skills he has with that.

I should frankly not even talk about that or him here, rather actually mail him perhaps and ask him directly, instead of fueling speculation..sorry.

Prince Charming
07-31-2016, 11:29 AM
But they need to get PAID. Bryphii's closed his tutes because of lack of compensation. I think he's wrong, and should look to RH to see how to do it profitably, but there it is.

I feel the need to come here and explain myself even though I have already told you why they are down. Yet you came here where I dont even post and didnt even mention any of what I told you.

I have NO interest in selling training. I tried to sell training years ago and only sold 6 copies, and I assure you that YOU were not one of the sales. You weren't to worried about compensating me then... Nor was Erik. In fact when I did have a donate button on my channel it was the only one not in Erik's list that shows up on his posts. So it is kinda funny to see both of you with so much to say. And for you to say I am "wrong" for doing what I please with my own f'ing property is just too funny!

I will repeat what I told you on my vid since you seemed to want to leave it out of your post here.
Not only have I shared my knowledge for free on the youtube vids, more importantly I have shared my knowledge for free by email with 100s of "professionals" personally over the last ten years... and not one time has any of those "professionals" offered me paying work. THAT IS WHY I AM NO LONGER SHARING! I told you that on my vid so its odd that you left that out of your post here. It is a respect issue more than a compensation issue. In my field of work if someone has shared their knowledge as freely as I have they would be taken care of!

Since you are giving me your advice Jeric... Let me give you a bit of advice. Spend more time creating and less time typing and your 3d skills may one day improve!

erikals
07-31-2016, 11:54 AM
dang, can't recall that Donate button?? i'll donate this minute *

however, i'm not going away from strongly advising you to make paid tutorials.

why? because, as you say, people don't donate.

-----------
* edit: do you have a direct link? i couldn't find it.



I already stated that I am not interested in selling training. I already tried that years ago and only sold 6 copies...
in that case that was very poor marketing. if you re-decide and make another one i'll help you out by posting a videolink on my Youtube channel.
you could also team up with Liberty3D.

Prince Charming
07-31-2016, 12:09 PM
Nah, people knew about it... it was on here spin quad and my youtube channel.
But like I already said... I have no interest in selling training. For it to be worth it for me I would have to sell 200 copies at 50$ in a short amount of time... And I dont see that happening in the current LW community. If I did do something I would do the tutorial then put it on crowd fund to see if there was enough interest to release it.

Like I already said... Its more about the amount of "professionals" that I have helped over the years and the lack of work offers from said "professionals". That type of thing would not fly in my industry. Makes me wonder how "professional" these "professionals" really are.

jeric_synergy
07-31-2016, 12:17 PM
Since you are giving me your advice Jeric... Let me give you a bit of advice. Spend more time creating and less time typing and your 3d skills may one day improve!
That is certainly correct, and good advice.

By "wrong", which was a poor word choice, I meant "mistaken". Your experience was bad, but perhaps your approach was non-optimum. Rebel Hill built a following here by posting, and when he made his training available people snapped it up. Kat has made a business of providing a channel for artists to get fairly compensated for their training in a predictable and fair manner, in direct reaction to the guy who shafted Larry Splinegod Schultz.

That's two models of getting compensation that apparently work. Marketing may not be your forte. RH both built a following and did some preliminary advertising for his materials. Kat has a permanent site and a team of authors. Contacting him might be wise, I know he'd be interested.

BTW, if it makes a difference, I haven't made any money with LW for a long time, it's all AE and labor.

erikals
07-31-2016, 12:22 PM
For it to be worth it for me I would have to sell 200 copies at 50$ in a short amount of time... And I don't see that happening in the current LW community.
i think Nodes in LightWave is somewhat of a niche, so yep, small market in a small valley.

a wild guess is that you should be able to sell 50 tutorials at $40. doesn't need to be long tutorials, 50min maybe.
$2000 should be worth something?

anyway, please give me the PayPal link, cause i can't recall having donated.


Contacting him [Kat] might be wise, I know he'd be interested.
Agree. i can ask him to contact you if you want.

jeric_synergy
07-31-2016, 12:36 PM
Unfortunately, until LWG makes some BIG splash, LW training will be a decreasing market. Fortunately, there's "the long tail", which I think Kat has set himself up admirably to take advantage of.

Prince Charming
07-31-2016, 12:47 PM
Thing is... I already have a regular income that is plenty sufficient for me to survive on. I dont want any donations, I want those professionals who I have helped over the years to offer me some paying work. That is what I would consider fair and proper. KAT has already reached out to me... I dont know how many time I have to say it... I AM NOT INTERESTED IN MAKING TRAINING. I am interested in paying work form one of the many professionals that I have given free help to over the last ten years. Its a very simple concept!

jeric_synergy
07-31-2016, 12:55 PM
OK.

FWIW, when I was an active animator I had to constantly make the circuit of my clients, chumming the waters, noodging them to realize "oh, yeah, we could use animation there". ---It was by far my least enjoyable business task. But that was mostly producers and editors, not other animators.

And that was a long time ago, when data transfer speeds were pathetic-- snail mailing a zip drive was usually better. I'm not sure how continent-spanning consulting/collaboration works nowadays-- perhaps more active producers such as Spinland here have insights.

Who here IS a consultant?? Anybody??

Prince Charming
07-31-2016, 12:55 PM
Unfortunately, until LWG makes some BIG splash, LW training will be a decreasing market. Fortunately, there's "the long tail", which I think Kat has set himself up admirably to take advantage of.

Until you post Kats tax info you are making wild speculations.

jeric_synergy
07-31-2016, 01:50 PM
If you like. Since you don't want to do training, that's neither here nor there. He has had a persistent market presence for years. --It seems your labor in existing tutes might buy a beer or two.

I'm not sure how one would go about marketing niche services like "node-intensive Lightwave3d-centric consulting". Perhaps someone else knows. It likely involves a lot of phone/skype conversations.

Prince Charming
07-31-2016, 02:01 PM
What I am saying is that if you think KAT is surviving from liberty 3d I think you are mistaken... I could be wrong but I highly doubt it.
I dont know how I can put this more plainly for you to grasp what I am saying. With the amount of professionals that I have helped in the past ten years I should not have to look for anything. It doesn't have to be node related. I Have done many photo real renders,product shots, and models. The point is... with the amount of professionals that I have helped I should not have to LOOK for anything... and I dont intend to. I would love to keep sharing my knowledge, but I dont feel comfortable doing so until I get some fair paying 3d work. Its that simple.

There is nothing that is going to change the situation other than someone offering me some paying work. Like I already said to you... I work a long hard week of REAL work (the sweaty kind)! The last thing I intend on doing on my spare time is chasing POSSIBLE 3d work. I shouldn't have to with all of the "professionals" i have freely helped over the years.

jeric_synergy
07-31-2016, 02:12 PM
Good luck. You've got undeniable skills. But my experience is that even with satisfied clients, I still had to call, cultivate, and downright schmooze them. I always hoped they'd just call, but continual reminders were necessary. (But gahd help you if you called TOO often. JFC.)

About Kat: I don't know, I think L3D is just one of his several irons in the fire. But sometimes that's what it takes: "multiple revenue streams" in biz-school speak. And, of course, L3D isn't just training, it also has a few tools (eg Ubercam), and it keeps Kat in the scrum so he knows what the issues are.

Anyway, your RW job has you covered.

Prince Charming
07-31-2016, 02:24 PM
I dont really care about what KAT does, nor would I speculate about his income... cause it would be foolish given the info that we have.
The thing is jeric... I explained to you the deal on my vid. So for you to come here and say I am "wrong" I find a bit disrespectful. Wrong about what exactly? Am I somehow required by you to share my knowledge for free? Lets just drop it... cause this was about another persons project not mine, but i did feel the need to defend my decision because I think it was perfectly "right" and fair.

50one
07-31-2016, 02:36 PM
You should guys take this argument into PM:)

I haven't spent that much time on the forums in the past, so I only heard the name Bryphi maybe few times.

Not taking any sides in this argument but for someone on the outside I think it was bit naive to to count on other people Bryphi - especially people you don't know personally, for sure we come from different backgrounds but I'll tell you what my mom used to tell me since I was a wee boy - "If you got soft heart you better prepare to have your *** kicked very hard" and you know what, how many time I wished I have listened to her advice.

Again, not judging anyone but it's a jungle out there and you either eat or be eaten, good people like you are hard to find these days.

OnlineRender
07-31-2016, 02:45 PM
You should guys take this argument into PM:)


yeah this is my sympathy thread , beat it :D

but I will say one thing ... flay , preset central ... sq

Prince Charming
07-31-2016, 02:46 PM
You should guys take this argument into PM:)
Yet, you jumped right on it... in this thread?

Not even sure what you are talking about? I am not counting on anyone for anything... I am just not sharing anymore of my knowledge until someone gives me some paying work. I am not even mad about it, but I dont appreciate being called 'wrong" for doing what I please with my own property. Unless you are also of the belief that it should somehow be mandatory for me to share my knowledge for free... with "strangers" as you say?

Prince Charming
07-31-2016, 02:49 PM
yeah this is my sympathy thread , beat it :D


Yes, I do apologize... But my name was brought up in public so I felt the need to defend it in the same way. I am done... and I am very sorry for your loss ;)

SBowie
08-09-2016, 09:31 PM
I am done... Apparently not.

I have taken the liberty of splitting this thread into before and after components - this thread (pre-apology), and this one (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?151072-Thread-for-masochists-continued) (post-apocalyptic). My recommendation is to avoid the latter, but that's at the reader's discretion.

Prince Charming
08-09-2016, 10:41 PM
Apparently not.

I have taken the liberty of splitting this thread into before and after components - this thread (pre-apology), and this one (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?151072-Thread-for-masochists-continued) (post-apocalyptic). My recommendation is to avoid the latter, but that's at the reader's discretion.

I apologize Steve, I was done, but others kept bringing me into it. I had hoped that it would get back to lightwiki related posts. You probably would have been better off just deleting all that crap. Never wanted a thread about it, in fact I never wanted to even be brought up on this forum, let alone to rejoin it to defend my actions. Looking back I should have just let it go... Feel free to pull the plug and put me out of my misery ;)

erikals
08-10-2016, 12:58 AM
i think it should stay, better to have a reference on it, so if someone asks, we can point them here.

Spinland
08-10-2016, 03:28 AM
i think it should stay, better to have a reference on it, so if someone asks, we can point them here.

I deeply regret the emotional outbursts on my part and would be just as happy if that whole mess were deleted. My apologies to the board for my behavior.

prometheus
08-10-2016, 04:20 AM
I deeply regret the emotional outbursts on my part and would be just as happy if that whole mess were deleted. My apologies to the board for my behavior.

It is always good to reflect on oneselfs behaviour, and let go of the prestige ....Unfortunatly there seem to be a defence mechanism in most of us, that goes overhand..that says, stop ..here goes the line, and you may easy get insulted or feel a need to defend yourself, and sure..sometimes it can be motivated, but it quite fast also winds up and spin out of hand..just for the cause of some prestige in the end.

I donīt think any one of us wants to be the perfect a-hole, so good to reflect on things and just step back, I actually think you may grow as a person if you can let go of the prestige or let go of a fight that serves no purpose really.

I have seen some harsch comments ..which was sad to see, will not engage since I am a :chicken: :)
And entering the debate would take me too much energy following who said what and this and that to no good use for me, I rather spend that on trying to plan for some mini quick showcase small tutes.
Things can get better...if you try to understand yourself and the other person, may not work all the time, but it may be worth the shot sometime.

Michael

Spinland
08-10-2016, 05:14 AM
Yep. I have as big an ego as any, possibly more so than many. I also come from a background where "tough love" was the rule of the day, patience for nonsense was essentially nonexistent, and aggressive response sometimes a necessity. Doesn't excuse my occasional failure to recognize I'm in a different world now. ;D

Yes, I have some growing to do. Keeps life interesting. :beerchug:

gerry_g
08-10-2016, 05:49 AM
Trashing Lightwave, trashing the dev team, now trashing one another, you guys have really painted yourselves into a corner

prometheus
08-10-2016, 06:33 AM
Trashing Lightwave, trashing the dev team, now trashing one another, you guys have really painted yourselves into a corner

Now letīs keep thing apart, we have various sections for each of them, itīs not that bad ..yet....just let it go....itīs impatient times and trash talk in the wake of all that, all that can be subject for change if we work towards that and stop putting salt in the wound ( And now I start to get too pretentious in my semi philosophical thoughts) havenīt slept for 20 hours , so I should crawl back to whatever I came from before I woke up....the bed.
Maybe a good nights sleep for all is to recommend to relieve the stress symptoms here, or having fun with the one you love...
a lightwave release that rocks will work wonders too

SBowie
08-10-2016, 07:35 AM
Trashing Lightwave, trashing the dev team, now trashing one another, you guys have really painted yourselves into a cornerSince this has come up, let me take a moment to delineate the boundaries.

By policy, the forums are provided for "for professional and civil discourse regarding NewTek products by NewTek users." For "civil", let's use this definition: "adhering to the norms of polite social intercourse; not deficient in common courtesy". As to what constitutes a "professional" manner of discourse, this simply requires that we display a reasonable degree of discretion. If not always rising to the level of how one might treat a valued client, it means at least refraining from juvenile 'tit for tat' behavior, insults and obscenity. So, personal abuse, insults, and provocation, whether directed at fellow members, the company or its staff are out of bounds ... period.

There is nothing in the forum policy that says you can't criticize company policies or products. Constructive criticism by those who care or are affected is a valuable asset. Summing up, you can complain if you like, but you can't be a mouthy jerk. If that's what you need to be, find another venue. :hammer:

p.s. - I don't want to further subvert this thread, and there's not much room for discussion on this matter. If you do want to talk about forum policies or their application, feel free to PM me..

Prince Charming
08-10-2016, 02:07 PM
Since this has come up, let me take a moment to delineate the boundaries.

By policy, the forums are provided for "for professional and civil discourse regarding NewTek products by NewTek users." For "civil", let's use this definition: "adhering to the norms of polite social intercourse; not deficient in common courtesy". As to what constitutes a "professional" manner of discourse, this simply requires that we display a reasonable degree of discretion. If not always rising to the level of how one might treat a valued client, it means at least refraining from juvenile 'tit for tat' behavior, insults and obscenity. So, personal abuse, insults, and provocation, whether directed at fellow members, the company or its staff are out of bounds ... period.

There is nothing in the forum policy that says you can't criticize company policies or products. Constructive criticism by those who care or are affected is a valuable asset. Summing up, you can complain if you like, but you can't be a mouthy jerk. If that's what you need to be, find another venue. :hammer:

p.s. - I don't want to further subvert this thread, and there's not much room for discussion on this matter. If you do want to talk about forum policies or their application, feel free to PM me, or start a different thread elsewhere.

Since we are talking about "professionalism" here? Do you think it was very professional to take it upon yourself to make a thread about me that I never asked for or wanted and give it the name you gave it? Then close it? I think that is pretty slimy, Steve. Not very professional at all. Even less so since you actually work for this company... but I guess its par for the course... cause not much this company does is done in professional manner. Why should your actions be the exception. I did think you were a bit better than that though... Apparently not?

SBowie
08-10-2016, 03:21 PM
Well, by policy, moderation is not subject to discussion ... but since you ask so nicely:

I moved it because it was OT. I left it - i.e., the posts in question - (rather than deleting it) because a) I consider revisionism to be generally unethical, b) you had provided a fairly reasonable answer to questions that had been raised about your decision on handling your Youtube content (which you really didn't have to do, but did anyway ...), c) several people had offered somewhat cogent remarks related to marketing, tutorials, etc.; so all considered, despite the detritus and risk of re-engagement in hostilities, and since it seemed likely this particular storm had largely passed over for the moment, I decided to take a chance on you and the others involved.

I closed it because I was evidently too optimistic about that last item. And as to the thread name, two things - broadly it serves as a tongue in cheek warning to those of fainter heart, and second, my first choice for a subject line was too long (my iPad wouldn't accept "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."). Quod scripsi, scripsi.

Finally, may I just mention that "slimy" is the kind of provocative language I was referring to in my previous post - but I'll let it slide because it's directed to me, and my hide is a good deal thicker than some. I mention it only as an example. And now, I'll impose the rule about discussions re: moderation action being off-bounds, and remind you that I suggested previously that anyone who wants to pursue this topic do so by PM (as a general aside, I find that handling personal issues in PMs tends to defuse them rather quickly, by largely eliminating the human tendency to public posturing).

SBowie
08-11-2016, 06:52 AM
Am I not allowed to tell him how I feel about it?Sure you are ... just not here.



p.s. - I don't want to further subvert this thread,
and there's not much room for discussion on this matter. If you do want to talk about forum policies or their application, feel free to PM me.

[Edit - or email me, if PM doesn't serve. My email is exactly what you probably think it is.]


From the Forums Moderation Policy: Moderation decisions are not subject to public discussion. If you have comments, send an email or private message to the moderators.


... and I cant even have an opinion about it?You can have opinions all day long. You may or may not be free to express them (here). That depends largely on you, since you are the one who controls how you choose to express them. Failure to comply with forum policy may limit where you are permitted to express them (and perhaps, whether anyone will listen to them).

Forum policy states "The NewTek Discussion Forums are a private venue provided as a service to NewTek customers at NewTek's discretion. As such, the NewTek Discussion Forums are not a free speech zone ..." By definition, then, everyone is here as a guest. Certain decorum is expected of guests, and failure to live up to reasonable expectations can result in consequences. Guests are, of course, free to leave if they are unhappy, and a host may largely handle things as he deems necessary or appropriate. This is the nature of the relationship here, and the basis for enjoying the benefits of the service.

Please refer to the subject of this thread. Posts that are OT or which are perceived to be attempts to stir up needless contention will be summarily subjected to moderation. As I'm rather busy, I'd appreciate it if no-one wastes my time by trying to circumvent this request.

OnlineRender
08-11-2016, 09:16 AM
Sure you are ... just not here.






You can have opinions all day long. You may or may not be free to express them (here). That depends largely on you, since you are the one who controls how you choose to express them. Failure to comply with forum policy may limit where you are permitted to express them (and perhaps, whether anyone will listen to them).

Forum policy states "The NewTek Discussion Forums are a private venue provided as a service to NewTek customers at NewTek's discretion. As such, the NewTek Discussion Forums are not a free speech zone ..." By definition, then, everyone is here as a guest. Certain decorum is expected of guests, and failure to live up to reasonable expectations can result in consequences. Guests are, of course, free to leave if they are unhappy, and a host may largely handle things as he deems necessary or appropriate. This is the nature of the relationship here, and the basis for enjoying the benefits of the service.

Please refer to the subject of this thread. Posts that are OT or which are perceived to be attempts to stir up needless contention will be summarily subjected to moderation. As I'm rather busy, I'd appreciate it if no-one wastes my time by trying to circumvent this request.


Sbowie you have my permission "not that you need it " ... burn this thread!

SBowie
08-11-2016, 09:25 AM
Sbowie you have my permission "not that you need it " ... burn this thread!Well, thanks for that, but for the reasons aforementioned (my dislike of revisionism, legitimate comments by various participant, yadda yadda), I'd prefer to let it stand - for its original purpose - and simply apply moderation as I find it necessary.

Spinland
08-11-2016, 10:01 AM
So the topic has drifted back into meta? Fun!

"Herding cats" is a completely inadequate descriptor of the task of trying to impose some sense of order onto a group of gifted creatives with egos and intelligence. In other words: 'Wavers. (Okay, I did what you said, can I have my discount coupon for the LW Next upgrade now?)

I moderated a rather heavily populated internet political BBS for many years and the experience nearly destroyed me. Kudos and sympathies for your task of moderating this lot (and I firmly include myself in that dig). ;D

blackvx
01-09-2019, 08:32 AM
I see that this thread turned soured but I'm glad this discussion was not deleted because that's how I discovered why 3dxyz.pro was not letting me registering. Thanks for the link to download the preset zip file!

OnlineRender
01-09-2019, 09:51 AM
you can download the entire 2015 , LW and Octane presets database here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VuX8f58MqpfulYRPSDQzzG7-k1N8C40R/view?usp=sharing

2018 release meant a huge change in materials so...

if you search here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lightwiki/search/ and type presets you will get a whole bunch for 2018...

if you download ODRoot http://odroot.com , well check it out for yourself.

blackvx
01-09-2019, 11:10 AM
you can download the entire 2015 , LW and Octane presets database here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VuX8f58MqpfulYRPSDQzzG7-k1N8C40R/view?usp=sharing

2018 release meant a huge change in materials so...

if you search here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lightwiki/search/ and type presets you will get a whole bunch for 2018...

if you download ODRoot http://odroot.com , well check it out for yourself.

Thank you sir!
I'm already part of this facebook group and never noticed that people were also sharing presets.