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sudac20
07-24-2016, 02:08 PM
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=1388174

Interesting post on CG talk. LWG's marketing is terrible and it is going to cost them. Newcomers to the industry are not going to pick up lightwave they assume its dead app. If LWG don't hit a home run with their next release they are in big trouble.

jasonwestmas
07-24-2016, 02:24 PM
I believe lightwave is going in interesting new directions. But it is probably best not to compare Lightwave to maya and max etc. It's not a self sustaining app. anymore, but rather a hub for lots of cool plugins. Kinda like max was 15 years ago.

What people don't seem to realize is that Lightwave is not Newtek's flagship program so it can continue regardless of its popularity.

Even so, Lightwave development already lost the war a decade ago. The beauty of THIS is that LW3DGroup doesn't have to try to keep up anymore, they can develop a new way to do things and make the brand popular again. This can be done in whatever CG field they choose if they want to.

OnlineRender
07-24-2016, 03:06 PM
I believe lightwave is going in interesting new directions. But it is probably best not to compare Lightwave to maya and max etc. It's not a self sustaining app. anymore, but rather a hub for lots of cool plugins. Kinda like max was 15 years ago.

What people don't seem to realize is that Lightwave is not Newtek's flagship program so it can continue regardless of its popularity.

Even so, Lightwave development already lost the war a decade ago. The beauty of THIS is that LW3DGroup doesn't have to try to keep up anymore, they can develop a new way to do things and make the brand popular again. This can be done in whatever CG field they choose if they want to.

I got a sneak peek at the LWnext , far from it is all I can say

50one
07-24-2016, 03:36 PM
I got a sneak peek at the LWnext , far from it is all I can say


Pics or it didn't happen:P

OnlineRender
07-24-2016, 03:40 PM
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13770289_842936502504352_7635034623097673788_n.jpg ?oh=a4816c07bae154ac7fd6e283db23e5f8&oe=582352F4

50one
07-24-2016, 03:48 PM
That tells me nothing but you got another beer for posting a pic:)

BokadCastle
07-24-2016, 04:13 PM
2 Scotsmen go into a bar...

pinkmouse
07-24-2016, 04:13 PM
Ooh, you naughty boy Steph!

That slide actually tells you lots and lots. ;)

lardbros
07-24-2016, 04:13 PM
I'd say that the post on cgtalk is just someone trolling.
It sounds like they've posted it to try and stir some ****...

Someone will give him a license for free, whenever they want? Hmmm... Piracy... Much??

50one
07-24-2016, 04:16 PM
maybe he got license for ***?

jasonwestmas
07-24-2016, 04:20 PM
I got a sneak peek at the LWnext , far from it is all I can say

Good to see that it is looking good on your end.

jwiede
07-24-2016, 04:32 PM
I got a sneak peek at the LWnext , far from it is all I can say

So they can put together presentations for such events, but cannot make time to write a paragraph or two for the blog?

hrgiger
07-24-2016, 04:41 PM
So they can put together presentations for such events, but cannot make time to write a paragraph or two for the blog?

The event was not organized or run by LW3DG.

OnlineRender
07-24-2016, 04:43 PM
they never put anything together ... "Andrew" did and he had to jump through hoops just to get permission to show the new LW and even at that he only just scratched the surface

js33
07-24-2016, 05:11 PM
Ooh, you naughty boy Steph!

That slide actually tells you lots and lots. ;)

You care to elaborate?

DrStrik9
07-24-2016, 06:04 PM
Lightwave is not dead.

js33
07-24-2016, 06:22 PM
That tells me nothing but you got another beer for posting a pic:)

Look what I found.

http://www.andrewcomb.com/

So far from searches I've gleamed that "Principled Rendering" has to do with PBR shaders and realtime rendering.

50one
07-24-2016, 06:31 PM
Look what I found.

http://www.andrewcomb.com/

Still looking at it not sure yet if it tells us anything new.

I know who Andrew is and what word "principle" means, but it seems that photo has nothing to do with LW2017.

js33
07-24-2016, 06:35 PM
I know who Andrew is and what word "principle" means, but it seems that photo has nothing to do with LW2017.

I edited my previous post before you replied.
So far from searches I've gleamed that "Principled Rendering" has to do with PBR shaders and realtime rendering.

MichaelT
07-24-2016, 07:01 PM
Dead? no. Softimage is dead, and it wasn't long ago it was touted as the best. Popularity means nothing.

danielkaiser
07-24-2016, 07:03 PM
2 Scotsmen go into a bar...

Duh!!:D

BokadCastle
07-24-2016, 07:47 PM
Duh!!:D


Biff, whack, smash, kapow...hic, fart!


And that's just Nicola.

djwaterman
07-25-2016, 01:25 AM
Ha ha, it's not enough to generate negative threads internally, now we're importing them from elsewhere and setting them up on home turf. Good job.

BokadCastle
07-25-2016, 01:34 AM
Ha ha, Good job.

Thanks.

BokadCastle
07-25-2016, 02:12 AM
Ever played Rugby?
No...didn't think so.

korolev
07-25-2016, 02:14 AM
Too little, too late...

Waves of light
07-25-2016, 02:18 AM
From what I saw, it's certainly not dead. Far from it. Folks need to remember that the next release will be the same as all the previous releases... Marmite, you either love it or hate it.

bazsa73
07-25-2016, 03:06 AM
Sounds like "cucumber season" smalltalk among geeks spending warm summer days indoor.

OnlineRender
07-25-2016, 03:16 AM
Sounds like "cucumber season" smalltalk among geeks spending warm summer days indoor.

actually we where outdoors drinking beer, and it wasn't a complete sausage fest, can't argue the geek part however.

Tobian
07-25-2016, 03:18 AM
How on earth did you arrive at real-time rendering? Has the illuminati been hiding **** in my metadata again? ;)

OnlineRender
07-25-2016, 03:35 AM
/\ low blow btw bazsa73 ,uncalled for! it's complete sh!t we cant talk about anything, we never asked to be in this position, it sucks.. some of us traveled 600 miles in two days, just to interact with other LW users, you know rather than sit behind a keyboard and make snide remarks...

kolby
07-25-2016, 03:59 AM
Here, Lightwave is considered dead for a decade.
All studios, TV channels and schools switch to Autodesk or C4D even sooner. No advertising, marketing, nothing and never was. Even X-Force aren't interested to crack LW nor plugins anymore. :D:D:D

kopperdrake
07-25-2016, 04:21 AM
Didn't we talk about cucumbers? I'm sure there was some talk about cucumbers...

...but as far as the stuff I saw, I was very happy. In fact, one of my biggest fears was allayed and I'm seriously looking forward to working with the new rendering engine. It *is* a shame that we can't say more - we were asked not to - but I want to say that I didn't see one disappointed face from the current users. What I saw was slick, well thought out and stable, and I really didn't feel like texturing in my old 2015.3 when I booted up the PC the next morning. But we were only shown the tools relevant to Andrew's talk, so have little to no idea of other changes.

rustythe1
07-25-2016, 04:33 AM
Here, Lightwave is considered dead for a decade.
All studios, TV channels and schools switch to Autodesk or C4D even sooner. No advertising, marketing, nothing and never was. Even X-Force aren't interested to crack LW nor plugins anymore. :D:D:D

when did that happen? still used in a large portion of well known TV shows, still used in many large films, take zoic for example, they have always used Lightwave in their pipeline, and in many cases for final render, and they have quite a number of the top shows http://www.zoicstudios.com/work/samples/series/
and some colleges / unis in the uk are now adopting Lightwave, one of the reasons why events like "create expo" are now happening here,
and maybe third party developers are better at protecting their software when its worth protecting, its piracy that drives up the price for autodesk and prices me and many others out, so we have to use lightwave, so that means there will always be a market for lightwave,

rustythe1
07-25-2016, 04:38 AM
the other thing to consider in the current market is, autodesk are actually opening a big window for software like lightwave, the more small companies they take other and shut down, the less choice they are giving for people like my self who maybe can not afford over $1000 a year for software

kadri
07-25-2016, 04:44 AM
"...its piracy that drives up the price for autodesk..."
Not in the way you think. They got the user base with piracy in the first place (and marketing etc.).
With that kind of user base they will price the software as they please so much they can. Piracy is irrelevant.

50one
07-25-2016, 04:50 AM
when did that happen? still used in a large portion of well known TV shows, still used in many large films, take zoic for example, they have always used Lightwave in their pipeline, and in many cases for final render, and they have quite a number of the top shows http://www.zoicstudios.com/work/samples/series/
and some colleges / unis in the uk are now adopting Lightwave, one of the reasons why events like "create expo" are now happening here,
and maybe third party developers are better at protecting their software when its worth protecting, its piracy that drives up the price for autodesk and prices me and many others out, so we have to use lightwave, so that means there will always be a market for lightwave,


No sign of LW in Zoic since "48hours" times I think.

BeeVee
07-25-2016, 04:54 AM
Actually, since OnlineRender drove me and Tobian to Nottingham from Newcastle it really was the setup for a cheesy joke: "An Englishman, Geordie and Scot get in a car..." :D

B

kolby
07-25-2016, 05:21 AM
when did that happen? ...

First and big fall was after v5.6 till the release of v6. Second was after v8. Core was last nail into the coffin. Then LW disappeared from scene completelly. I believe in other countries in europe is much better situation. Not here. LW user is considered here as something exotic. I know only two another exots here. :)

kolby
07-25-2016, 05:25 AM
"...Piracy is irrelevant.

Yes, but I thing it can be sign.

Waves of light
07-25-2016, 05:29 AM
Actually, since OnlineRender drove me and Tobian to Nottingham from Newcastle it really was the setup for a cheesy joke: "An Englishman, Geordie and Scot get in a car..." :D

B

Lol.

DogBoy
07-25-2016, 05:43 AM
when did that happen? still used in a large portion of well known TV shows, still used in many large films, take zoic for example, they have always used Lightwave in their pipeline, and in many cases for final render, and they have quite a number of the top shows http://www.zoicstudios.com/work/samples/series/

Zoic pretty much dropped LW for Maya, amongst other apps, years ago

bobakabob
07-25-2016, 06:02 AM
These silly threads have been running for 20 years. LW is far from dead and if it doesn't fit the bill there are some very nice expensive alternatives out there.

Waves of light
07-25-2016, 06:11 AM
These silly threads have been running for 20 years. LW is far from dead and if it doesn't fit the bill there are some very nice expensive alternatives out there.

^That in a nutshell. I'm sure there will be enough features for most people to warrant an upgrade or a new purchase, but I'm also sure there will never be enough for some. If they release it and you don't like it, it's your choice to take your business elsewhere.

DogBoy
07-25-2016, 06:23 AM
Yeah, I'm guessing from folks reaction to the Notts show, that it is far from dead. Let's hope we get to see it soon ;)

artzgo
07-25-2016, 07:28 AM
First and big fall was after v5.6 till the release of v6. Second was after v8. Core was last nail into the coffin. Then LW disappeared from scene completelly. I believe in other countries in europe is much better situation. Not here. LW user is considered here as something exotic. I know only two another exots here. :)

about 10 yers ago in Poland LW was a strong position like a 3DMax now .... now he uses it maybe 10 people :(

jasonwestmas
07-25-2016, 07:30 AM
Dead? no. Softimage is dead, and it wasn't long ago it was touted as the best. Popularity means nothing.

No, quality means nothing ;). . .apparently. Popularity seeks what is most convenient and common.

ianr
07-25-2016, 07:56 AM
I here that John le Carre is writing the new GPU. turbo section?
Can you leave a message at the usual deadletter drop!

rustythe1
07-25-2016, 08:10 AM
about 10 yers ago in Poland LW was a strong position like a 3DMax now .... now he uses it maybe 10 people :(

actually I do a lot of work with polish LW artists, (probably about 50%)

Schwyhart
07-25-2016, 08:32 AM
Lightwave is still taught here in Tulsa, OK in at least one of the colleges. I think it's also taught at the tech school too.
I tried to get the professor to switch to MODO a few years ago, but he refused. I'm glad he didn't listen to me.
There are two studios I know of, and one other I can't confirm, that uses Lightwave.
I think there are a few studios in OKC still using it. C4D is the other one that is used in this area. Not many use Maya.
Mainly architecture and oil viz.

Spinland
07-25-2016, 08:54 AM
No sign of LW in Zoic since "48hours" times I think.

Indeed. It's poignant for me because Zoic was a prime factor in my taking to LW in the first place. The last reasonably established studio I've talked with that had LW on their menu was The Asylum and according to my contact there it's being slowly phased out.

prometheus
07-25-2016, 09:01 AM
there is always industry standards and you need to get a plint in to the markets thinking and educational system, that doesnīt happen by itself that easy.

when the business advetisors screams for 3d max, or may...then thatīs what the schools are educating for, if such software then is provided for free to the schools..then itīs not surprise everything else dies out or is left in the margin.
However I actually noticed one Game company a few days ago that had actually had lightwave in the requirement list..together with maya and max requirements, that doesnīt really happen more than maybe once per year or per two years..in our official authority site for job ads, as for lightwave it doesnīt show up regulary..for max and maya it happens several times per month it seems.
Since that was the first ad in the offical job ads that I have seen for ages...seems lightwave should be reborn anytime soon :)

Lightwave is definitly not dead, it depends on areas, countries etc and what is going on there, I rarely see any japanese users here ..but I guess it much bigger there, or at least was.
But I can see the OPīs point, I think newtek/the lw team needs to seriously adress how to get that plint in to the educations..as well as the marketīs requirements, they are connected to eachother.

Spinland
07-25-2016, 09:05 AM
I'm currently in negotiations to begin handling the VFX for a TV studio in the San Francisco Bay area and initially they wanted me to work in C4D. After explaining how I operate and that my workflow introduced no such need, and showing the work I do in LW, they agreed with me. Score one small victory for the home team! :lightwave

prometheus
07-25-2016, 09:12 AM
I'm currently in negotiations to begin handling the VFX for a TV studio in the San Francisco Bay area and initially they wanted me to work in C4D. After explaining how I operate and that my workflow introduced no such need, and showing the work I do in LW, they agreed with me. Score one small victory for the home team! :lightwave

Great..congratulations, good to see that showcase can validate it all, and break through some folks preset minds.

Conditions are so different depending on countries, the very fact that tv-shows or film is a such huge part in the u.s ..while here in sweden it is really really poor in those terms, here it is mostly All about game industry, so it isnīt a surprise that Lightwave doesnīt count much here, except for maybe some independent artist and smaller companies perhaps.

nemac4
07-25-2016, 09:42 AM
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13770289_842936502504352_7635034623097673788_n.jpg ?oh=a4816c07bae154ac7fd6e283db23e5f8&oe=582352F4

http://www.andrewcomb.com/tag/pbr-rendering-workflow/

rustythe1
07-25-2016, 10:12 AM
I'm currently in negotiations to begin handling the VFX for a TV studio in the San Francisco Bay area and initially they wanted me to work in C4D. After explaining how I operate and that my workflow introduced no such need, and showing the work I do in LW, they agreed with me. Score one small victory for the home team! :lightwave

well this is the thing, if your working for a studio, it doesn't really matter what you build your assets, animations etc as long as you have an interchange format, if they want your work I am sure they will happily let you use what ever tools you want, and given things like lightwave is a fraction of the price of maya, its more beneficial for them!

Spinland
07-25-2016, 10:26 AM
well this is the thing, if your working for a studio, it doesn't really matter what you build your assets, animations etc as long as you have an interchange format, if they want your work I am sure they will happily let you use what ever tools you want, and given things like lightwave is a fraction of the price of maya, its more beneficial for them!

Very much agree. In my case, I own the Studio rather than work for it, but sometimes clients feel they want things done in a certain way. If I don't see they have a valid case, rather than pony up for a license and a learning curve I don't feel is necessary I'll try to convince them. Sometimes I succeed.:boogiedow

OnlineRender
07-25-2016, 10:31 AM
http://www.andrewcomb.com/tag/pbr-rendering-workflow/

yeah like I said Andrew only scratched the surface*ing :D his time allocation was short then we got kicked out for beers ... I saw a couple of small tweaks which I thought hmm that's needed and that's clever... another than that we are pretty much still in the dark

Spinland
07-25-2016, 10:35 AM
... then we got kicked out for beers ...

I cannot imagine a finer reason to be kicked out of anywhere.:beerchug:

50one
07-25-2016, 11:16 AM
I keep my fingers crossed that upcoming version will won some new users and bring back the old ones;)

rustythe1
07-25-2016, 11:18 AM
come on, 2 days into siggraph and not a droplet of info!?? although I looked at some of the 360 photos posted on FB and it looks like its just a mass of people playing pokemon go! everyone seems to be looking at their mobiles,

prometheus
07-25-2016, 12:30 PM
Itīs a bit sad/awkward that so many threads in here have been building up a momentum of "question of release lw or question of new forum" though I can fully understand it, it will also be one of those factors that determines wether or not users find the forums vibrant in the right way ..or if they choose to spend less time here .

I hope that after the release and perhaps a bit improved forum will soon get us back on track to a continued discussions of further lw improvements, artwork and new inspiring flowing ideas that lives, rather than speculating about when and if around it all.

Michael

jeric_synergy
07-25-2016, 12:36 PM
Ha ha, it's not enough to generate negative threads internally, now we're importing them from elsewhere and setting them up on home turf. Good job.
ROTFL!

Good one, DJ!

jeric_synergy
07-25-2016, 12:42 PM
What's surprising to me is that Rob Powers, a Hollywood guy, seems to put such meager resources into marketing, when he KNOWS the power of marketing.

For the salary of 1/3rd of a coder, he could have a very motivated marketing person keeping the existing user base quiescent, and stirring up interest among the hoi polloi.

Tobian
07-25-2016, 12:45 PM
So... sack one third of his coders, and employ more marketing people? Sure fire way to increase speed till the next release! :)

Spinland
07-25-2016, 12:46 PM
“A man who stops advertising to save money is like a man who stops a clock to save time.” – Henry Ford

DrStrik9
07-25-2016, 12:57 PM
I don't know ... does anyone actually respond to marketing in the 3D space? If at all, then minimally. If LW was the equivalent to a Ford car or truck, with millions of potential buyers, then marketing/advertising would make more sense. Show me the product, and what it can do for my creative work. That's what sells software, imo.

Spinland
07-25-2016, 12:59 PM
I do think they do, personally. All of my marketing expertise has been hard-won and geared toward my own business but in the broader perspective brand awareness still means a great deal, and can often be the tie-breaker in a purchasing decision. Also, one's brand image goes a very long way toward the kind of credibility that gets your product installed in learning centers and small-to-medium business locations.

DrStrik9
07-25-2016, 01:03 PM
I do think they do, personally. All of my marketing expertise has been hard-won and geared toward my own business but in the broader perspective brand awareness still means a great deal, and can often be the tie-breaker in a purchasing decision. Also, one's brand image goes a very long way toward the kind of credibility that gets your product installed in learning centers and small-to-medium business locations.

Yes, but brand is a far higher reality than "marketing." They are related, but not the same thing at all.

Spinland
07-25-2016, 01:04 PM
I am aware of that, but the image of one is a direct result of activity in the other. There is an extremely tight cause/effect relationship.

souzou
07-25-2016, 01:10 PM
What's surprising to me is that Rob Powers, a Hollywood guy, seems to put such meager resources into marketing, when he KNOWS the power of marketing.

For the salary of 1/3rd of a coder, he could have a very motivated marketing person keeping the existing user base quiescent, and stirring up interest among the hoi polloi.

Interesting, I don't have that perspective at all. I think LW has more active marketing now (newsletters, facebook, etc) than Maxon or SideFX for example. But I do think that the far smaller userbase means that LW gets a lot less exposure in online articles, magazines etc - there's far less LW work to feature/show off. And that becomes an ever-diminishing cycle as the new blood doesn't get pulled in.

I think much of it as well is having the product. How much marketing has Substance done? Or Quixel? Or Octane? Word of mouth and great products have done most of the work imho. Rob seems like a smart guy, I think he's focusing on sorting out the product which will (hopefully) sell itself.

That said I think the lack of blog updates is a mistake. If you're going to do it, do it properly. Surely someone could be tasked with this for 15min a week just to spit out a render or two as they're testing.

DrStrik9
07-25-2016, 01:15 PM
True, but don't confuse brand with marketing. This is a big mistake being made by many companies. BRAND is the fundamental PROMISES a company makes. How well they KEEP those promises, from pricing and order-taking to product quality, and what they do when something goes wrong, all work together to make the brand good or not so good: either a kept or broken set of promises. Obviously, any brand that keeps its promises will have infinitely more value than one who breaks them.

Marketing may serve brand in a limited sense, but it's only a small piece of what brand is.

And are we getting a bit off topic? :+)

Spinland
07-25-2016, 01:16 PM
I think LW has more active marketing now (newsletters, facebook, etc) than Maxon or SideFX for example. But I do think that the far smaller userbase means that LW gets a lot less exposure in online articles, magazines etc - there's far less LW work to feature/show off. And that becomes an ever-diminishing cycle as the new blood doesn't get pulled in.

I'm inclined to agree with you on this, and add that in the current business climate as marketing paradigms evolve those "broadcast" style marketing venues have become ever-less important. Large players can still realize economies of scale from such "Old Skool" approaches but the New Hotness is content and relationship marketing (among other buzzwords). Where NewTek is dropping the ball, as I see it, is not going directly, and personally, after that small user base to make them feel included, in the loop, and that they have a relationship with the company—in short, by taking many of the very actions people here are so unhappy at them not taking. In this forum and via FaceBook (also Twitter, but see other posts of mine as to why that approach is treacherous) they have a golden opportunity to turn wwe few remaining die-hard users into unpaid brand ambassadors, leveraging the Internet and social media to spread the love.

That is the lack in their marketing plan that so perplexes me.

Tobian
07-25-2016, 01:21 PM
Getting off what topic, some **** posting from another forum, yeah lets get back to that...

Spinland
07-25-2016, 01:23 PM
True, but don't confuse brand with marketing.

Not to get terse, but I am not the slightest bit confused. I know what brand is and what marketing is and how they're inter-related quite well. I live this stuff every day both personally and through my frequent collaborations with full time marketing agencies. Such represent a large percentage of my client base and I'm deeply immersed in the modern marketing community—but thanks for trying to be helpful. I'm making some specific points in this thread about shortcomings I see in Newtek's approach as compared to what I consider to be a goodly sum of related expertise on my part. It's entirely possible my full meanings aren't coming through well here and for that I blame myself.

On that note it does appear we're going off topic and also not accomplishing much except talking past each other. I'd much rather share a beer. Where's that Utica to Portland transporter? :beerchug:

rustythe1
07-25-2016, 02:18 PM
thing is, is this all actually very clever marketing at the expense of a few of us on the forums? tell us a new lightwave is coming then go quiet, we start talking more and more about, that drums up google hits without them having to pay SEO, then at the right time they release it, just as the largest volume of traffic is lurking,

prometheus
07-25-2016, 02:20 PM
What's surprising to me is that Rob Powers, a Hollywood guy, seems to put such meager resources into marketing, when he KNOWS the power of marketing.

For the salary of 1/3rd of a coder, he could have a very motivated marketing person keeping the existing user base quiescent, and stirring up interest among the hoi polloi.

Well that one can only speculate in ...Provided Rob controls or have a huge influence on how much goes in to the market part, maybe itīs a bit out of his control.


Sure Rob is quite a bit silent on the forums, but after a release I think he is active enough.

I recall when I bought in to 2015, we got a christmas present I think, with chronosculpt and nevron motion bundled..and a nice price, that was all nice....though in hindsight, I would rather have had the 3rd powers bundle, wich would be of way more importance for me than chronosculpt and nevron motion..which basicly just sits inactive on my computers, would be cool if they could present a dynamic offering like, choose either a bundle with chronosculpt nevron motion, or 3rd powers bundle, or lw- cad bundle, if they make such gifts or nice deals with a very attractive price, though it must be much harder for them to do that with a third party developer I guess, rather than give away chronosculpt and nevron motion.

THE LIGHTWAVE JUMPGATE..
http://michaeli65.wix.com/prometheus

Michael

jeric_synergy
07-25-2016, 02:23 PM
thing is, is this all actually very clever marketing at the expense of a few of us on the forums?...
No, it is not, because no one in the wider world of CGI, which pointedly barely, BARELY includes Lightwave at this moment, knows and/or reads this forum

Chernoby
07-25-2016, 02:46 PM
Not dead yet... but Blender will eventually replace everything: Maya, Zbrush, 3DCoat, Mari, Nuke, After Effects, Premiere Pro... everything.

jasonwestmas
07-25-2016, 02:51 PM
Not dead yet... but Blender will eventually replace everything: Maya, Zbrush, 3DCoat, Mari, Nuke, After Effects, Premiere Pro... everything.

Yup and someday we'll all be on some kind of a star trek where the concept of money no longer exists. :)

Chris S. (Fez)
07-25-2016, 03:02 PM
Yup and someday we'll all be on some kind of a star trek where the concept of money no longer exists. :)


:D :beerchug:

Norka
07-25-2016, 03:14 PM
As long as folks like myself have such a deep, profound hatred for Blender, LW will exist! I honestly can not think of one app I have ever loathed more. I use Blender occasionally for three.js exporting and a little Manuel Lab here and there... otherwise, I avoid it as much as humanly possible.. worst. interface. ever.

If LWG was smart, they would mimic Otoy's Octane some, and get tons of cheap publicity with contests (with relatively inexpensive prizes, like hardware, free upgrades etc)...

And they are way, waaaay overdue to get some press releases (those are free) out of ANY new developments, to at least cgchannel.com and cgpress.org, at the minimum. Mindshare LWG... Mindshare.

js33
07-25-2016, 03:58 PM
Siggraph 2016 is in full swing.

We are awaiting a wealth of information regarding Lightwave Next.

Nothing, what? Well crap I guess it's time to see what Autodesk, Foundry and Maxon are up to.

rustythe1
07-25-2016, 04:01 PM
No, it is not, because no one in the wider world of CGI, which pointedly barely, BARELY includes Lightwave at this moment, knows and/or reads this forum

actually, if you take a look through google the blogs have been re posted on a dozen or so 3d websites,

Chernoby
07-25-2016, 04:02 PM
Star Trek AND the concept of money has fresnel!

hrgiger
07-25-2016, 06:38 PM
Siggraph 2016 is in full swing.

We are awaiting a wealth of information regarding Lightwave Next.

Nothing, what? Well crap I guess it's time to see what Autodesk, Foundry and Maxon are up to.

All kinds of great software rental scheme features.

jeric_synergy
07-25-2016, 07:06 PM
As long as folks like myself have such a deep, profound hatred for Blender, LW will exist! I honestly can not think of one app I have ever loathed more. I use Blender occasionally for three.js exporting and a little Manuel Lab here and there... otherwise, I avoid it as much as humanly possible.. worst. interface. ever.
I hated with a white hot passion the old Painter..... but my actual artist/painter friend LUVVED it--and was hopeless w/Pshop--, so I guess they were doing something right.

I'm LUVVING Unity-- seriously, they're just doing everything right there.

Blender IS configurable, wildly so in fact. Surely there's a LW skin for it somewhere?

OH, and I'm finding 3DC not so much hateful, as some s/w is, as simply completely baffling. :cry:

- - - Updated - - -


actually, if you take a look through google the blogs have been re posted on a dozen or so 3d websites,
?? Perhaps, but I'm talking of this forum, not the extremely sparse blogs from LWG.

ncr100
07-25-2016, 07:25 PM
<speculation>The (relative) dearth of marketing could be strategic. Delaying significant marketing until LW 2018 (?) with the announced user-interface refresh makes sense since LW3DG might want to not support a huge influx of new users on the current-gen user-interface. But rather wishes to support people on the next-gen (the sexy-gen?) interface. Could be seen as a better use of marketing money and market goodwill to promote LW accessible via a fancy-pants modern user-interface.</speculation>

jeric_synergy
07-25-2016, 07:33 PM
That would be a very stupid plan.

ncr100
07-25-2016, 07:59 PM
Yeah - could be stupid to spend little on marketing 2015 and 2017. At least I think relaunching before the new UI is available would miss out on raising mind-share (existing and new) and capitalizing on financial opportunities in the current market. Might lose some existing users in the interim too. Was that what you were thinking?

But a side-consideration is the unanticipated cost: "UI feels like something of 90s" from that cgsociety thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=8217955#post8217955 scroll up a centimeter) implies new LW users could bounce from 2015/2017. Marketing now could fail tragically by informing that market of new users NewTek has some not-inspiring 90s tech for sale. Overly dramatically put: aim at foot, pull trigger. (IMO UI refresh using the existing GUI is totally possible.)

So, I'm not _really_ considering their marketing relative to existing users (us). It's a one-time-charge product. How many more sales could they round up? For LW 2017 I speculate the goal is to stabilize the internals in prep for the following UI refresh version. I am guessing for it to be successful financially, they're going to need to take users from competing 3D apps with LW 2018. And for that to succeed they'll need a real sexo-tastic gui. Something not "just" 90s.

I feel they're coming _out_ of the tough spot and I hope we'll see a dramatic improvement in marketability of the product in maybe this and probably the next (after LW 2017) LW version.

prometheus
07-25-2016, 08:00 PM
This thread is as useful as discussing dead parrotts, we know that lightwave isnīt dead.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE

Spinland
07-25-2016, 08:28 PM
I began trying to work up a related gag involving Schrödinger's cat but nothing's coming to me. :jester:

js33
07-25-2016, 08:32 PM
This thread is as useful as discussing dead parrotts, we know that lightwave isnīt dead.
No it's just in a coma.

djwaterman
07-25-2016, 09:39 PM
What new UI are we talking about, has that been mentioned somewhere?

jasonwestmas
07-25-2016, 09:43 PM
No it's just in a coma.

non, non, the lightwave is resting.

vncnt
07-25-2016, 11:51 PM
Yeah - could be stupid to spend little on marketing 2015 and 2017. At least I think relaunching before the new UI is available would miss out on raising mind-share (existing and new) and capitalizing on financial opportunities in the current market. Might lose some existing users in the interim too. Was that what you were thinking?

But a side-consideration is the unanticipated cost: "UI feels like something of 90s" from that cgsociety thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=8217955#post8217955 scroll up a centimeter) implies new LW users could bounce from 2015/2017. Marketing now could fail tragically by informing that market of new users NewTek has some not-inspiring 90s tech for sale. Overly dramatically put: aim at foot, pull trigger. (IMO UI refresh using the existing GUI is totally possible.)

So, I'm not _really_ considering their marketing relative to existing users (us). It's a one-time-charge product. How many more sales could they round up? For LW 2017 I speculate the goal is to stabilize the internals in prep for the following UI refresh version. I am guessing for it to be successful financially, they're going to need to take users from competing 3D apps with LW 2018. And for that to succeed they'll need a real sexo-tastic gui. Something not "just" 90s.

I feel they're coming _out_ of the tough spot and I hope we'll see a dramatic improvement in marketability of the product in maybe this and probably the next (after LW 2017) LW version.

I think itīs not the way LW looks. I think itīs more the way we animate controls in multiple ways and how that is (barely) organized in a sequencer in a not so flexible way in multiple windows.

For reference, check out other programs that have a multi-track sequencer, such as Reason9 and VegasPro13 (btw Magix VegasPro14 is coming this year). They have lotīs of sequencer related features that Lightwave already would benefit from or would inspire 3D specific solutions.

A new LW-sequencer could provide smooth solutions to assist in both (re-)organization and detailed tuning. Replace the old stuff (timeline, graph editor, scene editor, motion mixer, morph mixer) for one single replaceable smooth flexible new system. If necessary in another application that can handle LWS files without breaking rigs and plugin references.

I understand that modeling speed and render speed/quality is vital for Lightwave.
But itīs the part in between thatīs staying behind for so many years: animation.

Understand the user as an animator too!
The science behind sequencing is much easier to understand than the science behind rendering: building a new sequencer will never be as difficult as building a new renderer.

With so many fine examples that guide us how to do it right, Lightwave should not stay behind any longer.

Lewis
07-26-2016, 01:57 AM
What new UI are we talking about, has that been mentioned somewhere?

Not more or less than for last 10 years with people assuming it in the works/redesign :).

robertoortiz
07-26-2016, 08:05 AM
I think itīs not the way LW looks. I think itīs more the way we animate controls in multiple ways and how that is (barely) organized in a sequencer in a not so flexible way in multiple windows.

For reference, check out other programs that have a multi-track sequencer, such as Reason9 and VegasPro13 (btw Magix VegasPro14 is coming this year). They have lotīs of sequencer related features that Lightwave already would benefit from or would inspire 3D specific solutions.

A new LW-sequencer could provide smooth solutions to assist in both (re-)organization and detailed tuning. Replace the old stuff (timeline, graph editor, scene editor, motion mixer, morph mixer) for one single replaceable smooth flexible new system. If necessary in another application that can handle LWS files without breaking rigs and plugin references.

I understand that modeling speed and render speed/quality is vital for Lightwave.
But itīs the part in between thatīs staying behind for so many years: animation.

Understand the user as an animator too!
The science behind sequencing is much easier to understand than the science behind rendering: building a new sequencer will never be as difficult as building a new renderer.

With so many fine examples that guide us how to do it right, Lightwave should not stay behind any longer.

AMEN! This is one of the biggest problems with LW. Animation is a HUGGGGE deal, just look at the efforts that the Blender Foundation is taking.

ernesttx
07-26-2016, 09:07 AM
Agree, animation system needs to be updated into cohesive system. That's why I still animate in Messiah, everything within reach and in front of animators eyes and touch. No need to open multiple windows to tweak something.

ncr100
07-26-2016, 11:44 AM
What new UI are we talking about, has that been mentioned somewhere?

There was a (Lino, Rob, Matt hive-mind) post about how 2017 won't see a UI refresh, and that a UI refresh would come later. Googling ... arrrrgh the forum explosion from last month took them out.

Chernoby
07-26-2016, 12:32 PM
Call me crazy but I PREFER LW for character animation. And texturing Hah! A bit wierd but there you go. Rebel Hills toolkits, DP Kits node and filters, and Mike Green's Papayagogo(?) importer are my workflow. Genoma is wierdly cou ter-intuitive, takes too long, and slows the viewports down WAY too much.

I just need weight painting in Layout for skinning and physics and dynamics that are centralized (bryphi has a great vid on youtube showing LWs limits on this)... if I could get these two things I wouldn't complain for another 10 years. Third would be a UV mapping system that uses seams and works without a 5 hours process of applying cloth dynamics and morphing and everything else. I dont even care about modellng, Blender is the best modeller out of any software IMO.

Spinland
07-26-2016, 01:30 PM
Call me crazy but I PREFER LW for character animation. And texturing Hah! A bit wierd but there you go. Rebel Hills toolkits, DP Kits node and filters, and Mike Green's Papayagogo(?) importer are my workflow. Genoma is wierdly cou ter-intuitive, takes too long, and slows the viewports down WAY too much.

I won't call you crazy, not one bit. I love my CA workflow in LW, which includes Rhiggit Pro, TAFA for facial stuff, and the Brekel suite when I need some MOCAP. The end product is all the client cares about and those tools deliver.

bobakabob
07-26-2016, 01:54 PM
Call me crazy but I PREFER LW for character animation. And texturing Hah! A bit wierd but there you go. Rebel Hills toolkits, DP Kits node and filters, and Mike Green's Papayagogo(?) importer are my workflow. Genoma is wierdly cou ter-intuitive, takes too long, and slows the viewports down WAY too much.

I just need weight painting in Layout for skinning and physics and dynamics that are centralized (bryphi has a great vid on youtube showing LWs limits on this)... if I could get these two things I wouldn't complain for another 10 years. Third would be a UV mapping system that uses seams and works without a 5 hours process of applying cloth dynamics and morphing and everything else. I dont even care about modellng, Blender is the best modeller out of any software IMO.

Agreed, I keep repeating like a stuck record on this forum that RHill's CA tools take LW as close to Maya as you can get. CA can be a real pleasure in LW.

Spinland
07-26-2016, 01:59 PM
Agreed, I keep repeating like a stuck record on this forum that RHill's CA tools take LW as close to Maya as you can get. CA can be a real pleasure in LW.

Yeah, I agree. I use Rhiggit and TAFA extensively for my CA work, with some Brekel thrown in as desired to get a bit of MOCAP into the sequence. It might be possible that other workflows are "better" depending on your agenda but I know this path and it works wonderfully well for me and I don't see any need to change it. The whole underpinning of this discussion is, as I see it, people opining as to what flow works best for them and how LW fits into that schema. Not really sure how those opinions translate to a design document.

Hail
07-26-2016, 02:02 PM
Agreed, I keep repeating like a stuck record on this forum that RHill's CA tools take LW as close to Maya as you can get. CA can be a real pleasure in LW.

Until you need to undo more than once in the graph or dope editor.
Sorry couldn't resist :D

bobakabob
07-26-2016, 02:22 PM
Until you need to undo more than once in the graph or dope editor.
Sorry couldn't resist :D

True and yes, it's not ideal, but not exactly a show stopper, you just save incrementally at key points. Especially regarding surfacing in Layout (now that can be a pain without due care and attention). LW scene file sizes relatively tiny. There's nothing stopping you enjoying experimentation in animation, taking things in different directions in the Graph editor, you just need to be focused.

Undo in LW as you say *does* exist for CA - you can backtrack at least once in graph editor and multiple times in Layout with bone positions and character rig manipulators.

The alternative is shelling out a fortune for Maya on a rental scheme and paying for an additional renderer.

jeric_synergy
07-26-2016, 04:33 PM
The end product is all the client cares about and those tools deliver.
It seems they care a whole lot more BEFORE you get the gig than at the end. They are very silly. They've heard the word "Maya", and they really want to check off that box.

robertoortiz
07-27-2016, 07:42 AM
Until you need to undo more than once in the graph or dope editor.
Sorry couldn't resist :D

And that is why we need a NEW CONSOLIDATED TIMELINE based Interface that could expand and collapse(like After Effects)

Frankly Lightwave has a lot of power, but honestly the scattered interface, lack of NLE editing and lack of Undos are BIG flaws.

VonBon
07-27-2016, 10:56 AM
I thought about renting Maya LT just to do character animation,
but even at $20 a month, I refuse to be trapped into relying on
something I can never own.

LightWave will be fine as long as they continue to allow people
to own the their software. Because when Autodesk start flexing
on people again to please investors and LW is comparable, it's
going to be an easy decision for companies to switch over to
LightWave.

Chris S. (Fez)
07-27-2016, 11:22 AM
Seems LWgroup is going to let Siggraph pass without so much as a word. How times change...

THIBAULT
07-27-2016, 11:50 AM
No sign of LW in Zoic since "48hours" times I think.

Yes ! Just look Zoic careers : Maya and Houdini asked

Spinland
07-27-2016, 11:54 AM
It seems they care a whole lot more BEFORE you get the gig than at the end. They are very silly. They've heard the word "Maya", and they really want to check off that box.

Heh. Ain't it the truth? The most dangerous clients in that regard are the ones who know how to spell the names of the most popular titles and think that means they know what I should be using for a gig. 8~

erikals
07-27-2016, 12:08 PM
Seems LWgroup is going to let Siggraph pass without so much as a word. How times change...

last update was 24 March 2016...
and now a skipped Siggraph...

i'm a bit disappointed over here... :(


LightWave's marketing strategy is a turbulent road...


anyway...

ernesttx
07-27-2016, 12:38 PM
Yep, kind of bewilders the mind. With Siggraph going on now and thousands or millions of eyes watching and looking for news of what's happening or what's coming out, and.....not a single word about Lightwave. Come on, LW3DG, here you have a huge event and you aren't putting anything in front of a viewing audience. ?!?!?!?

prometheus
07-27-2016, 12:49 PM
last update was 24 March 2016...
and now a skipped Siggraph...

i'm a bit disappointed over here... :(


LightWave's marketing strategy is a turbulent road...


anyway...

Aha..so there is no lightwave on siggraph? is that right?
I thought that was to happen...in such case the speculation around when the release arrives will only continue with vague guessings.

I can understand all that frustration and how we see how things should be marketed etc, ulitmatly itīs just all up to them how they do their business, if it reflects bad on them or not ..well.
I am also getting a bit of inpatient like..common when?

Perhaps if they could just throw a bone of ...we suspect it to be finished within a quarter, within two months or more than that etc, we have a soon statement, but I think it would better to define soon as a range rather than undefinable near future.
will see.

I might have some projects to help out and lecture a very good artist in traditional media painting very realistic paintings .mostly figure paintings and they are Awesome, but we decided to await and see what happens with the new lightwave hair and skin since we thought that may
be needed to push the figure 3d renderings a bit, then we would start to use lightwave renderings that he then would paint instead of using models and also some abstract settings that would be difficult to take photos of, so right now that is put a bit on hold...so we do not get in to the starting block until the new lightwave is tested a bit.

js33
07-27-2016, 12:57 PM
LW3DG is a prime example of how not to run a marketing effort.

The anti-marketing marketing campaign.

In fact if you want your product to fail and no one know about it then just follow the LW3DG example.

erikals
07-27-2016, 01:04 PM
maybe LW2017 will be ok... maybe LW2017 will be fantastic...

but it doesn't neglect the fact that this is very poor marketing.

first they finally deliver on the marketing side, then it's decided to "close the gates". with no further explanation.

it's quite unprofessional, and frankly it puzzles me.

Kinetic Shapes
07-27-2016, 01:17 PM
It's better to do a big marketing campaign once the new version is released. Waste of budget otherwise. This next version judging from the info in the blog shows results of a major rewrite of the software. I guess they feel as I would do, save the big marketing bucks for this new release when it is actually out. I wish they updated the blog at least once a month, even if just elaborating on what they already showed. There again, their communication is better than some other 3d app companies. However, being the underdog and perceived wrongly that the software is dead, means they should continiously market LW once this major rewrite is out and not let it simmer down.

ernesttx
07-27-2016, 01:54 PM
I wasn't referring to marketing budgets. I was more inclining about keeping LW fresh in people's minds as Siggraph is going on. Blog update/s, Facebook update, throw a quick "KEWL" video teaser together and let the interwebs spread it around, you know like:
"Dude, Cinema R18 is out."
"Dude, kewl, but check out this rad Lightwave Next link / video."
"Dude, kewl, that looks so rad, maybe I should think about buying Lightwave instead."

- - - Updated - - -

Chris S. (Fez)
07-27-2016, 02:09 PM
Abandoning the blog for 4 months is one thing but ignoring Siggraph altogether is a bit startling. I hope everything is all right.

erikals
07-27-2016, 02:41 PM
I hope everything is all right.
was thinking the same thing... 8~

Snosrap
07-27-2016, 02:48 PM
Abandoning the blog for 4 months is one thing but ignoring Siggraph altogether is a bit startling.

Maybe every 4 months is "frequent" for LWG. Frequent updates is what is stated on their website.
133806

jwiede
07-27-2016, 02:54 PM
it's quite unprofessional, and frankly it puzzles me.

(emphasis added above)

Glad that others are finally recognizing/acknowledging this aspect as well. B2B relationships wind up especially damaged by such cases.

jwiede
07-27-2016, 02:57 PM
Abandoning the blog for 4 months is one thing but ignoring Siggraph altogether is a bit startling. I hope everything is all right.

Those are sides of the same wooden nickel. It all stems from toxic mgmt. attitudes and beliefs -- these manifestations are just symptoms.

Nothing can be sustainably "all right" until the underlying problems are addressed.

kadri
07-27-2016, 03:11 PM
Terragen is basically now 1 programmer (Matt owner of the software at the same time) and 1 marketing and kinda power user (Oshyan).
Oshyan is nearly everyday on the forum (10601 posts (2.974 per day) ) and Matt (2614 posts (0.733 per day) ) every time when he is needed basically.
So time constraints or few human resource argument or whatever reason is not the problem.

I think too whatever reason Newtek have it is basically wrong and it is actually easy to change.
The negativity will be here for a time being. They just have to ignore it. But ignoring the forum all together is not the right way.

prometheus
07-27-2016, 04:28 PM
Terragen is basically now 1 programmer .

Wow..didnīt know that, thought it was many more, I wonder how large the vue team is, that is actually something I consider when thinking about a purchase, I really donīt wanīt to invest in a software that has to few developers or just one, and something happens to him, then it all goes down.

Regarding siggraph, not sure what impact that have ..if lightwave isnīt presented there, letīs say that a lot of folks are there to look at what they should invest in, the question would be...do they know about lightwave and do they know when the new lightwave will be out..so they go for a thinking of " ah..this cinema 4d or maya looks awesome, but I will wait and see what lightwave brings" all that assumes they know lightwave exists and maybe they have an advanced guess when that release would be...
Is it fair to guess their thinking would be...nah, I will go for what is shown here...not for something that isnīt here, and something that I donīt know when it will be etc?
The end result of the silence and absence, may be that they invest in whatīs there, which means little funds over for lightwave ..or a lost chance simply put.

Extra..extra, read all about it...lightwave is coming..innovative new stuff, extraordinary performancy, come and get it.

The silence after the blogs leads me to suspect they may have ran into some serious issues with their development that they need to sort out, and they can not give any expected time frame for the release because of that, Itīs just me speculating..maybe itīs a kind of unnecessary spreading salt in the wound perhaps...but hey, the team can join in at any time and give hints towards a possible release date...if it is 2 months or 4 months? or longer? ..at anytime, they own these forums..so it isnīt difficult :)

kadri
07-27-2016, 04:35 PM
Wow..didnīt know that, thought it was many more, I wonder how large the vue team is, that is actually something I consider when thinking about a purchase, I really donīt wanīt to invest in a software that has to few developers or just one, and something happens to him, then it all goes down.
...


Lightwave was 2 and probably most software started in that way.
Depends on your viewpoint but i don't see it in a negative way Michael.
Lightwave had many programmers and still many good ones but all the negativity around?
Why are threads like this here and not in the Terragen forums ?

prometheus
07-27-2016, 04:55 PM
Lightwave was 2 and probably most software started in that way.
Depends on your viewpoint but i don't see it in a negative way Michael.
Lightwave had many programmers and still many good ones but all the negativity around?
Why are threads like this here and not in the Terragen forums ?

Sorry kadri..are you not a bit confused now? or mixing it up :)
your last sentence"why are threads like this here and not in the terragen forums" ?
Why?...the thread is a question about lightwave not terragen..if you mean the last posts about terragen, that was you with a POST..about terragen, and I answered with post related to that, not a thread...do you follow me to why I donīt understand your last question?

A far as one developer and seeing it in a negative way, that is purely from ones point of view, to me it is negative in the sense I can not trust what will happen if the developer goes away, neither do I feel trust towards the software developing fast enough..those are my assertments for negative standings on it, comparing to history of lightwave doesnīt make any justification towards that notion really.

Cheers.

erikals
07-27-2016, 05:00 PM
The silence after the blogs leads me to suspect they may have ran into some serious issues with their development that they need to sort out...
would be strange as parts of it was demonstrated in the UK not too long ago.


..at anytime, they own these forums..so it isn't difficult  :)
+10

...and that's my last complaint this month as far as lack of LWG marketing goes
ok, maybe add another month. over and out. :phone_cal

js33
07-27-2016, 05:30 PM
We are told that LW3DG care about Lightwave and we have seen evidence of that in the past but they sure do not care about the marketing/communication side of things.

prometheus
07-27-2016, 05:34 PM
Edited post after internal communication on how to communicate better :)

erikals
07-27-2016, 05:39 PM
we shall see, but now... 2am... G'night   :sleeping:

and to purposely derail this thread for no valid reason at all, i present to you...

> Clicking Hard Drives
http://xenomorph.net/misc/clicking-hard-drives

prometheus
07-27-2016, 05:42 PM
is it just me, or has the youtube submissions of lightwave vids dropped a lot recently, I wouldnīt dare to point to a certain person responsible of posting a lot of suggested improvements or plugin showcases, that one is excused for all the stuff..but just in general?

and if that is to be true, what could be the cause of that? I want more lightwave vids up there with a growing community.

kadri
07-27-2016, 06:00 PM
Michael basically my point is that the numbers of developers shouldn't be the important thing by choosing a software.
Having many programmers isn't always a guaranty for a healthy and fast developing program.

hrgiger
07-27-2016, 06:01 PM
Its irritating that Lightwave3DG doesn't feel the need to communicate with its customers but these constant rants that it somehow means the end of Lightwave are just getting ridiculous.

prometheus
07-27-2016, 06:18 PM
would be strange as parts of it was demonstrated in the UK not too long ago.




Not at all strange, if they only showed parts of lightwave, it means other parts of importance may be under work and they may have encountered issues with those parts.

prometheus
07-27-2016, 06:24 PM
Michael basically my point is that the numbers of developers shouldn't be the important thing by choosing a software.
Having many programmers isn't always a guaranty for a healthy and fast developing program.

Yes but that is just speculating, if we assert that there is only a one man developer, that means that if he goes down, so does the whole software continuity, this effect would dramaticly be seen when the team is one person only, the effect of such event drasticly looses itīs strength if the staff number is doubled or even more though.
question of many programmers or not is a bit of speculating in factors that is impossible to speculate about in my opinion, isnīt always..well that is a loose debate on individual persons skills and their ability to work in a team..highly lucid to confirm what is best in any given situation.

In fact when you mentioned that Terragen is a one man team, if that is true, that explains why I feel it takes just too long time to improve on terragen, I personally think vue does larger leaps when they release new versions...even though you may still argue about quality of the specific rendering.

Then again, I also think the lightwave team takes too long time to develop as well...factors as team developer changing to drasticly .from core members movign on, to ikeda etc ..going for himself etc, so sure that isnīt always the case of many programmers being a good thing perhaps, but I never stated always either, but in many cases it may be better...but the point was a One developer team, that is also a bit worrying when third party developer ends his stuff, worley etc..

kadri
07-27-2016, 06:34 PM
That is speculating too Michael. Softimage was great, had a team and that didn't helped at all. Anyway no point to argue.
Actually as always i don't want to post to pointless threads like this but so much others posts, i begin too...

prometheus
07-27-2016, 06:47 PM
That is speculating too Michael. Softimage was great, had a team and that didn't helped at all. Anyway no point to argue.
Actually as always i don't want to post to pointless threads like this but so much others posts, i begin too...

Hope you saw my last post just recently?
No I am not speculating about a one man team, that is what I discuss here, itīs a factor to consider that doesnīt exist with a larger team, when one man goes down, other can take over, not saying that would always work, but the odds are better for it, that risc factors that is there to loose one man that is the foundation isnīt there necessarly for a larger team...I donīt know if it is pointless to argue? would the chances of softimage be better with a one man team? that doesnīt make any sense to me..but we can leave it at that.

Autodesk isnīt a one man or a small team, it seems they work out fine anyway, to generilize on large groups is much harder than specify the effect of a one man driven development, itīs becoming more and more complex to analyze when it is a larger team in my opinion, you know that if anything happens on a one mans developers health or economy, motivation..it must be considered taking a serious effect on development, with larger team..depending on the structure it depends on what or which people is being affected by the same things, and how the team is organized to meet such challenges, but the odds to cope with it may be better.

I will try and give it a rest now..god nigh Kadri, I think I am a bit of to arguing today.:) to the point of being obnoxius.

kadri
07-27-2016, 07:13 PM
I know those things Michael. The difference is i think it is kind on the paranoia edge to choose that (1 man or team) over the overall software.
When you buy a software there is no guaranty if you will it still using 10 years later or not.
When i buy it i think about the first 3-5 years. If it looks ok for such a time no problem.
If the software is gone i might switch to another one if the old one isn't good anymore.
That is a subjective approach and it might be different for firms etc. too.
1 man or team...The software itself is important to me.

You might think different and that is OK too of course.

Edit:

...
I will try and give it a rest now..god nigh Kadri, I think I am a bit of to arguing today.:) to the point of being obnoxius.

Just saw this after i posted :)

Anyway.
I will just say this and go to rendering..
I had a nice feeling when the blog came up that the communicating would be better then in the past from Newtek.
Now it is ones again zero like.
So i will just wait for the new version...posting things like i did and some others looks like a waste of time unfortunately.
Looks like whatever we say about this they don't care.

JoePoe
07-27-2016, 07:34 PM
I find it interesting, and somewhat amusing, that the only thread (in all the LW forum sections) showing any real signs of life is the one asking if LW is dead. 8~

prometheus
07-27-2016, 07:38 PM
I know those things Michael. The difference is i think it is kind on the paranoia edge to choose that (1 man or team) over the overall software.
When you buy a software there is no guaranty if you will it still using 10 years later or not.
When i buy it i think about the first 3-5 years. If it looks ok for such a time no problem.
If the software is gone i might switch to another one if the old one isn't good anymore.
That is a subjective approach and it might be different for firms etc. too.
1 man or team...The software itself is important to me.

You might think different and that is OK too of course.

Edit:


Just saw this after i posted :)

Anyway.
I will just say this and go to rendering..
I had a nice feeling when the blog came up that the communicating would be better then in the past from Newtek.
Now it is ones again zero like.
So i will just wait for the new version...posting things like i did and some others looks like a waste of time unfortunately.
Looks like whatever we say about this they don't care.

yes..I understand you better now without going any further in discussion with disagreements.

Trust me, the lighwave team care...but if they have decided to put on the mouth gag while experimenting and doing there thing, it means they will only reflect back when they are finished with what they are doing and not let any speculation or discussion get in their way for what they are focusing on, that doesnīt necessarly mean that is good as for marketing and communication...just that is what they decided on, I would suspect once the release is out, they will leave explenations in a news letter or here in the forums towards why all the silence etc, with that and a good release they should be fine and have irradicated the speculations, only they know the situation and possible release now.

prometheus
07-27-2016, 07:41 PM
I find it interesting, and somewhat amusing, that the only thread (in all the LW forum sections) showing any real signs of life is the one asking if LW is dead. 8~

brings me back to recall the situation with monthy python and the poking on the cage to fake that the parrot is alive :)
itīs all just venting of frustration of a long awaiting..without having any control or insight in when your desired product arrives.

Spinland
07-27-2016, 07:47 PM
133808

kadri
07-27-2016, 07:50 PM
...
Trust me, the lighwave team care...but if they have decided to put on the mouth gag while experimenting and doing there thing, it means they will only reflect back when they are finished with what they are doing and not let any speculation or discussion get in their way for what they are focusing on, that doesnīt necessarly mean that is good as for marketing and communication...just that is what they decided on, I would suspect once the release is out, they will leave explenations in a news letter or here in the forums towards why all the silence etc, with that and a good release they should be fine and have irradicated the speculations, only they know the situation and possible release now.

Hopefully.

It is just communicating doesn't mean giving all the secrets away.
They could have just put some nice renders every 3-4 weeks and posted here and there some basic things and that would be still enough.
They think this is the best way a it looks. Most of us don't.

Rendering now and have a RAM problem. Only 1-2 GB left from 32 GB. Have to shutdown the least important program now...Firefox :D

JoePoe
07-27-2016, 07:52 PM
133808

LMAO (and i think that's the first time I've ever typed that). Never seen that....Too funny. Love it :D.

Cageman
07-27-2016, 07:57 PM
That is speculating too Michael. Softimage was great, had a team and that didn't helped at all. Anyway no point to argue.
Actually as always i don't want to post to pointless threads like this but so much others posts, i begin too...

I certanly don't want to add to this, completely bullocks of a thread, but... to be fair to what you said is that Softimage failed because it was developed with profit in mind, not productivity. The developers did everything right though, but the investors failed to see it... even Autodesk, who should be experts in the field of 3D, didn't see Softimage as "proper" 3D application, and they stopped Softimage from being developed.

Softimage, imho, was the only real condender to a combination of MODO, LW, 3DS and Houdini, but in single package. CORE, today, could have been fairly close to SI.

It doesn't matter though. :)

prometheus
07-27-2016, 08:08 PM
Hopefully.

It is just communicating doesn't mean giving all the secrets away.
They could have just put some nice renders every 3-4 weeks and posted here and there some basic things and that would be still enough.
They think this is the best way a it looks. Most of us don't.

Rendering now and have a RAM problem. Only 1-2 GB left from 32 GB. Have to shutdown the least important program now...Firefox :D

Are you still awake :) hope everything calms down and with true justice there in turkey, considering the chaos, just like that out of topic, hope you feel safe over there.

For serious work and rendering, shut down all browsers is a good advice I would say.

I donīt think it itīs entirely a question of giving secrets away, which your specific statement says, I believe..without knowing that it to be the case though, I believe they simply have decided to avoid distraction from them actually working on what they do, and being active with a forum can be very distractive and stealing time for their work, wether or not that approach is the right way to do it or if they should communicate more which most of us wantīs that is a different thing, simple facts that if you are here in the forums writing..you are not working with what you could and should do, unless you are designated to handle those questions.

Not sure if we are inflating it all, making a hen out of a feather by assuming they do not care, and assume they donīt think it is good to communicate too much etc..it could very well be that they want to, but decided not to due to the time constraints and hard work they have to put in to this VERY important release, that said..I like many think they should jump in and open up about the release a bit more now, considering the vast activity of assumptions and uncertainty ..especially also if it is clear they wonīt show up on siggraph.

prometheus
07-27-2016, 08:16 PM
this one may help sooth the burning itches and anxiety of no information of lightwave (this is not a poke at the parrot cage attempt ala monthy python to fake alive)
If you do not know japanese, learn it..by the time you are finished with that..I am sure lightwave has been released :)

The article is only around two weeks old, maybe the ligthwave group is there and hasnīt left yet, sitting their talking with artists and drinking sake. :)

https://www.lightwave3d.com/news/article/lightwave-wavy-awards-2015-2016-live-streaming-event/

kadri
07-27-2016, 09:20 PM
Are you still awake :) hope everything calms down and with true justice there in turkey, considering the chaos, just like that out of topic, hope you feel safe over there.
...

Thanks Michael. The true justice part here around is like our Lightwave threads these days. Many opinions and talk but nothings tangible :)

kadri
07-27-2016, 09:25 PM
...
Not sure if we are inflating it all, making a hen out of a feather by assuming they do not care, and assume they donīt think it is good to communicate too much etc..it could very well be that they want to, but decided not to due to the time constraints and hard work they have to put in to this VERY important release, that said..I like many think they should jump in and open up about the release a bit more now, considering the vast activity of assumptions and uncertainty ..especially also if it is clear they wonīt show up on siggraph.

They care in this or that way and probably not all of them are happy about this and would love to post here i am sure.
What i mean is they made a choice to not to post much and they stick to this.

Posting to forums is what i do mostly when i am rendering by the way. Can't do much on the PC anyway while it is taxing the computer 100 % :)

prometheus
07-27-2016, 09:38 PM
- - - Updated - - -


They care in this or that way and probably not all of them are happy about this and would love to post here i am sure.
What i mean is they made a choice to not to post much and they stick to this.

Posting to forums is what i do mostly when i am rendering by the way. Can't do much on the PC anyway while it is taxing the computer 100 % :)

Understood..
more computers is desired, heck ..even your own renderfarm I suppose, one to browse the web and do research of reference and other stuff, and perhaps model etc, the other one to render, but You got to spare some bucks for some bread too ofcourse.

I really should go to bed now, who knows what the tide will bring in tomorrow, perhaps a mail newsletter with a new release of lightwave :)

I am watching cinema4d on siggraph right now, the guy interviewed is asked about the importance of the show with regards to the new media age and internet etc, and he says itīs very important and nothing can replace that person to person experience, and for maxxon it is great to be able to spend time directly with artists, itīs also a time to meet partners, discuss and work out issues with partners.

Snosrap
07-27-2016, 09:54 PM
I just finished watching the Cinema 4D Siggraph interview with Paul Babb the president and CEO- he stated that they have hired 20 new programmers in the last year or so. Wow! LWGroup either can't hire one programmer or can't take down a page on their website. Either way it looks bad.

prometheus
07-27-2016, 10:01 PM
I just finished watching the Cinema 4D Siggraph interview with Paul Babb the president and CEO- he stated that they have hired 20 new programmers in the last year or so. Wow! LWGroup either can't hire one programmer or can't take down a page on their website. Either way it looks bad.

Yes I reacted on 20 new programmers the last couple of years too, and the fruit is about to be seen now they said..probably even more advancement in rapid expanson soon I suspect.

I really donīt know the status quo for how the lightwave team managed to fill the positions of a modeler coder, seems they had a hard time with that..but I can only speculate based on one leaving and a job add, however.. I have no clue to what goes on behind the scenes there...It makes you wonder though about if not the competition is growing even faster and larger than before, not the other way around...will see.

spherical
07-27-2016, 11:45 PM
I find it interesting, and somewhat amusing, that the only thread (in all the LW forum sections) showing any real signs of life is the one asking if LW is dead. 8~

That's because a LOT of us have significant investment in time, energy, training and cold hard cash in the tool that we have come to rely upon. If LW3DG is in trouble and NewTek isn't granting the capital to even have a minimal presence at the largest graphics venue on the planet in order to keep the momentum going (if you lose it, it's gone forever), then something smells. This begins to look more and more like Messiah of late.

JoePoe
07-28-2016, 12:49 AM
That's because a LOT of us have significant investment in time, energy, training and cold hard cash in the tool that we have come to rely upon. If LW3DG is in trouble and NewTek isn't granting the capital to even have a minimal presence at the largest graphics venue on the planet in order to keep the momentum going (if you lose it, it's gone forever), then something smells. This begins to look more and more like Messiah of late.

My point was less about NewTek being in trouble (or not), nor the energy devoted to this particular thread (irony notwithstanding), but more of a commentary on the dearth of community activity everywhere else LW on the forums as of late (not just due to the latest downtime debacle. Months and months and months. Dare I say a year). That's a different smell, ... but it still stinks. The candle seems to be burning from both ends.

erikals
07-28-2016, 01:08 AM
I really donīt know the status quo for how the lightwave team managed to fill the positions of a modeler coder, seems they had a hard time with that.
there might be a reason to these things,
-no modeler coder
-no modeler updates (basically)

the reason being that all new Modeler tools should be portable to Layout (as much as possible) < this was stated by NT
and that the new Layout code (mesh engine rewrite) just got finished

written with speculation mode > on

we'll simply just have to wait and see where the Modeler / Layout road goes

a quote for the coder > http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?149194-New-Blog-Post-The-Modifier-Stack&p=1460368&viewfull=1#post1460368

Marander
07-28-2016, 01:33 AM
That's because a LOT of us have significant investment in time, energy, training and cold hard cash in the tool that we have come to rely upon. If LW3DG is in trouble and NewTek isn't granting the capital to even have a minimal presence at the largest graphics venue on the planet in order to keep the momentum going (if you lose it, it's gone forever), then something smells. This begins to look more and more like Messiah of late.

I completely understand you. But what I noticed is that you can quickly transfer your knowledge to another application, because lots of the workarounds required for LW are simply not needed in other packages and those known bugs don't exist. And 3D know how is quite universal.

Why don't you use some free time to test trial versions of other software, do some basic tutorials to get the feeling if it fits your expectations and I'm sure you'll be surprised how easy it is. OK, Houdini and Maya are meant for big productions in my opinion but why not try the latest versions of Modo, C4D and/or MAX. LW and your knowledge with it will always be there due to it's infinite license - which is a big plus for me.

I'm not saying LW is useless and there are many amazing artists creating outstanding artwork with it. If LW does what it should for you and you don't want to spend more money, why not use it. But the efforts to get there are much higher in my opinion. And if you work for clients, how can you handle situations when the client wants last minute changes like different fonts etc. after everything is build destructively? If I was a professional, LW would not be my tool of choice for sure. The only possible advantage in LW 2017 for me could be the fast geometry engine and pricing.

The issue I see with LW3DG is the pace of their develoment, lack of communication and management decisions. Even if all other software companies (which are much bigger) would stop development it would take LW many many years to get to their current state. How can LW3DG compete with these large companies (AD, The Foundry, Maxon/Nementschek). And how much money can they make from the upgrade (and maybe some new users) to cover current cost and future development? I really wish LW to be successful but these are my worries.

Maybe they can implement some things that others don't have out-of-the-box and require plugins (like flocking or volumetrics) but again, this is just a price question. And those plugins to their job much better (see X-Particles for example). How many years will it take for them to develop a modern UI, state of the art modeling tools, proceduralism, etc. Maybe I'm wrong and they took the extra time to fix these issues. At least I would expect basic modeling tools in Layout, interface decluttering and Substance integration now for example - and not Torus2 and maybe Julienne3. And having a Layout camera in Modeler is just waste of development time in my opinion, why not do it right (modeling in Layout) from beginning if it's a re-write? I'm sure there will be a hype and lots of communication when 2017 is released but I guess many old time bugs will still be there and new issues will be introduced. And LW3DG will go silent again for a long time. I really hope I'm wrong.

Chris S. (Fez)
07-28-2016, 02:11 AM
Eh. I'll take Lightwave + 3rd Powers + True Art most days over Modo and Max. Nothing against Modo or Max. Both awesome programs but neither as fast and immediate as Lightwave in my experience.

tyrot
07-28-2016, 02:45 AM
Eh. I'll take Lightwave + 3rd Powers + True Art most days over Modo and Max. Nothing against Modo or Max. Both awesome programs but neither as fast and immediate as Lightwave in my experience.
+1000

HenrikSkoglund
07-28-2016, 03:22 AM
Hopefully everything is alright with Newtek and the team, itīs worrying when itīs suddenly this silent. But it could also mean they are preparing for things.

Itīs a bit sad that so much time has gone into rewriting old stuff over these past years, things that was a mess and in a bad state, actually created by the guys behind Modo if Iīm not mistaken. But my hopes are that once the team is through all this rewriting and restructuring of Lightwave, that they could work more on the actual goodies, the features and be more creative adding those to a better, more stable core.

50one
07-28-2016, 05:56 AM
Hopefully everything is alright with Newtek and the team, itīs worrying when itīs suddenly this silent. But it could also mean they are preparing for things.

Itīs a bit sad that so much time has gone into rewriting old stuff over these past years, things that was a mess and in a bad state, actually created by the guys behind Modo if Iīm not mistaken. But my hopes are that once the team is through all this rewriting and restructuring of Lightwave, that they could work more on the actual goodies, the features and be more creative adding those to a better, more stable core.

We only had Rob or Lino saying few times already that the release is imminnent and they're busy, so who know....


Modo guys? Sort of...they wanted to do re-write but were not-allowed to and they left...

cyroz
07-28-2016, 06:28 AM
Luxology was working on the 7.x cycle while Newtek/Lightwave Group was working on 8.
Plus, they were working on the "next" Lightwave (project MECCA)
archive luxology.net (http://web.archive.org/web/20020803192311/http://www.luxology.net/company/)
... and as stated before, then they left... and worked on Nexus / modo...

Back on topic,
I really don't know if Lightwave is dead or not, for me it's on hiatus anyway...
As a long time user (Lw 5) I really hope they'll be back soon with some awesome news, but for now back to work with modo / vray.....

Tobian
07-28-2016, 06:36 AM
Much drama! So there's been demos and blogs, and it's clear the staff are busy working on it, and Rob and Lino and Matt have all come on and said it will be here soon.. but no, lets stick to drama...

Spinland
07-28-2016, 06:40 AM
Heh. Wherever two or more creatives are gathered, there you will find drama. ;D

luciano
07-28-2016, 06:42 AM
...

OnlineRender
07-28-2016, 06:57 AM
for what it's worth the demo we seen ran on one of these fancy macs" looks like a bin" and it was rock solid

gerry_g
07-28-2016, 07:22 AM
my bins is ready for a new version of LW any day, don't think fancy is the word you are looking for, just smaller less plug ugly than your average generic PC :)

kopperdrake
07-28-2016, 07:46 AM
You don't stare at the air intake when you're clocking the CPU cycles...

OnlineRender
07-28-2016, 08:03 AM
You don't stare at the air intake when you're clocking the CPU cycles...

https://theta360.com/s/kCVAvN6P8BYZvDEEdTjmBIVnM you spin me right round baby , right round...

pinkmouse
07-28-2016, 08:05 AM
Funky!

So does that thing do HDR then Steph?

OnlineRender
07-28-2016, 08:12 AM
aye

Asticles
07-28-2016, 08:23 AM
Sorry, can you confirm the HDR support? I'm looking at the web and I cannot see it.

Tobian
07-28-2016, 08:40 AM
If you were on Facebook you'd know Pinkmouse, there's loads of them up there from the expo, it's so cool!

pinkmouse
07-28-2016, 08:42 AM
I am on Facebook, I just never go there! :D

OnlineRender
07-28-2016, 08:43 AM
Sorry, can you confirm the HDR support? I'm looking at the web and I cannot see it.

I don't really know what you mean , but you can set the exposure on the camera and take 3 images then create HDR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1V7f_VdrMU

Asticles
07-28-2016, 08:57 AM
I wanted to know if is possible with the internal software. To make the hdri without the need of a computer.

50one
07-28-2016, 09:25 AM
for what it's worth the demo we seen ran on one of these fancy macs" looks like a bin" and it was rock solid

There will come a day when I will buy one of those fancy machines.

charlesian2000
07-28-2016, 09:32 AM
Lightwave has a lot of potential, it's why I bought it over Rhino, and the Rhino Gold add on. It's why I bought it over Matrix, which is another Rhino add on.

Would be able to smash the Rhino Jewellers market if Lightwave had more specific jewellery related plugins.

Just saying.

MAUROCOR
07-28-2016, 09:42 AM
People are a bit stressed, so I sugest this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0plcJHVEy8

Spinland
07-28-2016, 09:52 AM
Lightwave has a lot of potential, it's why I bought it over Rhino

Whoa! Just chiming in when I saw the R word. I was a Rhino user for many years, went from v2 to v4 and I still have v4 on my token Windows machine because sometimes I need it (like when I have to import a huge STL file). That was my primary tool before I got on the LW bus. To me the Rhino interface has always been my favorite for intuitive and powerful.

Spinland
07-28-2016, 09:55 AM
People are a bit stressed, so I sugest this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0plcJHVEy8

:thumbsup: Loved the video, thanks for sharing!

Chernoby
07-28-2016, 10:18 AM
Well when I'm stressed the last thing I need is cats. I prefer the soothing sound of Sir David Frederick Attenborough.

https://youtu.be/UROVfmY3NTA

MAUROCOR
07-28-2016, 10:36 AM
Well when I'm stressed the last thing I need is cats. I prefer the soothing sound of Sir David Frederick Attenborough.

https://youtu.be/UROVfmY3NTA

:ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:

Airwaves
07-28-2016, 11:47 AM
Just curious to know, as I have been reading this forum I have noticed several people say they were watching some of the events from siggraph but it sounded like they were not there in person. I have an acm membership and I know about the siggraph live events you can watch (very little) but are other people watching siggraph events on the web? If so how are you doing this?

Thanks

devin
07-28-2016, 12:13 PM
Just curious to know, as I have been reading this forum I have noticed several people say they were watching some of the events from siggraph but it sounded like they were not there in person. I have an acm membership and I know about the siggraph live events you can watch (very little) but are other people watching siggraph events on the web? If so how are you doing this?

Thanks

C4DLive (http://www.c4dlive.com/) is one software-related source unless you are referring to the actual lectures, classes, etc.

Airwaves
07-28-2016, 12:31 PM
I have looked at some of the live streams here: http://s2016.siggraph.org/live-streaming-sessions

I guess I was looking more for lightwave and other lectures from other animation companies. So after reading through this thread is Lightwave3d showing at Siggraph? Thanks

Tobian
07-28-2016, 12:35 PM
As has been said several times, lightwave is not showing at siggraph this year.

jasonwestmas
07-28-2016, 12:43 PM
As has been said several times, lightwave is not showing at siggraph this year.

Or anywhere else this month :D

jeric_synergy
07-28-2016, 12:45 PM
Or anywhere else this month :D

ZING!!! :cry:

Spinland
07-28-2016, 01:23 PM
Or anywhere else this month :D

On the flip side: I have multiple gigs going on right now and LW is the long pole in the proverbial tent for all of them. When they give me new toys to play with I'll happily learn them; until then I have no time to fret over what could be save for those stolen moments waiting on my render farm.

MichaelT
07-28-2016, 01:39 PM
I don't get the stress. 2015.3 was released last year. So was C4D R17 (nearly the same time even) C4D R18 is coming near September, and I would not be surprised if Lightwave is released about the same time as well. You're building an air-castle here. They will be ready when its done.

js33
07-28-2016, 01:43 PM
It's not the actual release schedule that irritates people it's the starting the blog and posting for a few months then nothing for months now. Imagine if Modo, C4D, or Autodesk were so closed off you would have people storming their offices to see if everything was OK. Actually Newtek is down the road from me about 60 miles maybe I should...But isn't the LW3DG in LA?

MichaelT
07-28-2016, 01:48 PM
It's not the actual release schedule that irritates people it's the starting the blog and posting for a few months then nothing for months now. Imagine if Modo, C4D, or Autodesk were so closed off you would have people storming their offices to see if everything was OK. Actually Newtek is down the road from me about 60 miles maybe I should...But isn't the LW3DG in LA?

I can understand that.. and they should be better at that part. Any communication is better than none. Still, I don't expect a company to communicate what they are doing. There are plenty that don't. A good example being Apple. But that is beside the point really. I agree with you that they should say more, especially given that they promised they would. All this silence just breeds speculation.. and that is rarely of the good sort.

Yeah, they're in LA. Afaik, anyway.

Spinland
07-28-2016, 01:52 PM
Yeah, I would personally like to see more interaction aimed at quieting my personal demons. I'm not getting that. Guess I'll just post some snarky commentary here and then get back to work. :D

jasonwestmas
07-28-2016, 01:58 PM
Yeah, I would personally like to see more interaction aimed at quieting my personal demons. I'm not getting that. Guess I'll just post some snarky commentary here and then get back to work. :D

That's what I do! Not worried, always snarky.

Spinland
07-28-2016, 01:59 PM
That's what I do! Not worried, always snarky.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn snarky.

Okay, that's my personal take on the quote, but ain't it purty?

prometheus
07-28-2016, 02:04 PM
It's not the actual release schedule that irritates people it's the starting the blog and posting for a few months then nothing for months now. Imagine if Modo, C4D, or Autodesk were so closed off you would have people storming their offices to see if everything was OK. Actually Newtek is down the road from me about 60 miles maybe I should...But isn't the LW3DG in LA?


he...if you can reach them and if you got a box and cd of Lightwave, go there..and slam the box on the table, stating..this software is dead, It is noo more..with a british accent in falsetto, and maybe they will poke on it to fake it as alive :)
Those of you following monty python , takes this with a sense of humour mainly.

js33
07-28-2016, 02:48 PM
he...if you can reach them and if you got a box and cd of Lightwave, go there..and slam the box on the table, stating..this software is dead, It is noo more..with a british accent in falsetto, and maybe they will poke on it to fake it as alive :)
Those of you following monty python , takes this with a sense of humour mainly.

Hehehe. That would be funny. "This Software is Dead!" Tim Jennision pokes it and says. "No he's not he's just sleeping."

devin
07-28-2016, 03:12 PM
I just think it's odd watching a company that seems intent on further eroding its own (seemingly) steadily declining user base. As an invested customer, this does nothing to instill faith and retain me as a continued loyal customer. That's concerning.

Nevertheless, I like the brief peeks we've had into the next version. My company is already pushing into Max for our needs so the LW ship may already have sailed for our daily professional use. It's still my go to app for quick turnarounds but, despite my best efforts, it's being phased out due to the perception that it is no longer moving forward nor as relevant at this point.

jeric_synergy
07-28-2016, 04:38 PM
I just think it's odd watching a company that seems intent on further eroding its own (seemingly) steadily declining user base. As an invested customer, this does nothing to instill faith and retain me as a continued loyal customer. That's concerning.
Considering what we'd settle for, it IS odd.

60 seconds of Rob or Matt (all I know anymore, is Deuce still there?) saying "One of the things we looked at...." , biweekly, and we'd probably all be happy and SELLING THEIR PRODUCT FOR THEM.

..... but nnnnnnnooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo.......

kadri
07-28-2016, 05:14 PM
“Silence is pure. Silence is holy. It draws people together because only those who are comfortable with each other can sit without speaking. This is the great paradox.”
― Nicholas Sparks, The Notebook

Or:

“Distance doesn't ruin relationships but silence does.”
― Farid F. Ibrahim

kadri
07-28-2016, 05:42 PM
The thread end is near mostly when the images are becoming more and more i think...

http://introvertspring.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/black-and-white-quote-silence-tekst-Favim.com-541207_original.jpg

http://www.searchquotes.com/sof/images/picture_quotes/74567_20131020_194923_2013-09-30_23.03.31.png

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/tardis/images/1/13/Silent.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110727145232

and:

https://www.trovesaurus.com/images/uploads/476.jpg

prometheus
07-28-2016, 07:09 PM
The lightwave group....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n03g8nsaBro

ncr100
07-28-2016, 07:09 PM
Hi Devin! Insofar as materials +from+ LW3DG goes, what would basically retain _you_, since you're already invested? Something celebrating and reinforcing the LW community? A concise long-term relevancy vision from LW3DG leadership?

* For the 'no longer moving forward' point -- LW3DG could do more to counteract that impression.

* For the 'no longer relevant' point -- is it missing relevant interoperability? Or is there an aspect of workflow which LW3DG has overlooked integrating with the app, like cloud-storage or something of that vein?

Asking because I would like to see us focus on one "ask" from LW3DG, something positive and discrete, and I feel that lobbying for those things would be a fun focus for the community while we wait.

danielkaiser
07-28-2016, 07:26 PM
https://youtu.be/JTEFKFiXSx4

ncr100
07-28-2016, 08:01 PM
:cry:

kadri
07-28-2016, 08:19 PM
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/4275416/cone-of-silence-o.gif

js33
07-28-2016, 10:31 PM
https://youtu.be/JTEFKFiXSx4

This is the new theme song for Lightwave marketing.:lol:

spherical
07-28-2016, 10:45 PM
I completely understand you. But what I noticed is that you can quickly transfer your knowledge to another application, because lots of the workarounds required for LW are simply not needed in other packages and those known bugs don't exist. And 3D know how is quite universal.

Why don't you use some free time to test trial versions of other software, do some basic tutorials to get the feeling if it fits your expectations and I'm sure you'll be surprised how easy it is. OK, Houdini and Maya are meant for big productions in my opinion but why not try the latest versions of Modo, C4D and/or MAX.

We have 15+ 3D applications of various types in our arsenal. among them: Modo, Terragen, 3DS, Rhino, ZBrush, 3D Coat & Blender of course. LightWave, with a ton of commercial and free plugins, is my application of choice as being central to all of the others. If it goes away, we're not dead in the water but it will be a big upheaval.

BokadCastle
07-28-2016, 11:00 PM
That's because a LOT of us have significant investment in time, energy, training and cold hard cash in the tool that we have come to rely upon..

Pity you didn't make the same investment in NT's breakout technology - CORE.

kadri
07-28-2016, 11:33 PM
End of fun.

spherical
07-28-2016, 11:55 PM
Pity you didn't make the same investment in NT's breakout technology - CORE.

We did. And....?

BokadCastle
07-29-2016, 12:06 AM
We did. And....?
Madam, you told me you'd put me on your 'ignore list'.
How is it that you ask "And...?".

allabulle
07-29-2016, 03:04 AM
Again with this?

OnlineRender
07-29-2016, 03:48 AM
Again with this?

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/patreon.posts/8001775260225863089.jpg


hmm

allabulle
07-29-2016, 03:53 AM
https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/patreon.posts/8001775260225863089.jpg


hmm

Yup ;D

kadri
07-29-2016, 03:54 AM
Still time for an unrelated cat GIF ?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-S0wLAD_q9Dw/VLuQmubvmkI/AAAAAAAABrU/qw_rGNh4dDY/s1600/980x.jpg.gif

BokadCastle
07-29-2016, 04:01 AM
any chance that if you have something to say that you might try plain English.

Andy Webb
07-29-2016, 04:19 AM
It's always been a concern for me as to whether LW makes any money for NewTek? I have no idea as to the size of its user base but it must have shrunk over the years.

I would guess that its core users (us), are mainly upgraders, so the amount of income NewTek gets from LW must be of concern. The costs in people,
premises ect. must make making a profit difficult.

BokadCastle
07-29-2016, 05:25 AM
Have you considered Japan?

Andy Webb
07-29-2016, 05:36 AM
Are you asking me if I have considered Japan?

I'm sure there are plenty of users world wide, but that does not constitute the sort of income from a piece of software that makes it hugely profitable.

Andy Webb
07-29-2016, 05:39 AM
Just to be clear, I'm only guessing all this. It may be that LW makes NewTek a fortune, like everyone else on this thread, we are all sadly playing the guessing game.

BokadCastle
07-29-2016, 05:41 AM
I meant Japan is probably LW3DG's best market.

Andy Webb
07-29-2016, 05:53 AM
I meant Japan is probably LW3DG's best market.

Yes you are probably right

BokadCastle
07-29-2016, 06:01 AM
and it may be that circumstances in Japan will determine the next release of LW.

Kinetic Shapes
07-29-2016, 09:06 AM
I heard a rumour that to get the new Lightwave out sooner to it's moaning user base, the new PBR render will only be black and white. Colour coming in a later point release. Is this true?

prometheus
07-29-2016, 10:13 AM
To put some things in some perspective..this is also posted in this forum section by responsible newtek marketers.

So as far as concerning CBS ..lightwave users and lightwave will be needed in a near future

http://www.cgmeetup.net/home/jobs/star-trek-discovery-recruiting-lightwave-animators/

jeric_synergy
07-29-2016, 12:14 PM
I heard a rumour that to get the new Lightwave out sooner to it's moaning user base, the new PBR render will only be black and white. Colour coming in a later point release. Is this true?
ROTFL. --That's the best rumor I've heard in a long time. Very good. :D

jwiede
07-29-2016, 12:53 PM
To put some things in some perspective..this is also posted in this forum section by responsible newtek marketers.

So as far as concerning CBS ..lightwave users and lightwave will be needed in a near future

http://www.cgmeetup.net/home/jobs/star-trek-discovery-recruiting-lightwave-animators/

There are a LOT of irregularities in that article/release.

50one
07-29-2016, 12:56 PM
There are a LOT of irregularities in that article/release.

I agree, Gmail address and posted on cgmeetup rather than on a studio website, looking for anyone junior mid senior, kinda fishy if you ask me.

OnlineRender
07-29-2016, 12:57 PM
I agree, Gmail address and posted on cgmeetup rather than on a studio website, looking for anyone junior mid senior, kinda fishy if you ask me.

it's legit , the lead posted earlier today on Facebook

Spinland
07-29-2016, 01:00 PM
it's legit , the lead posted earlier today on Facebook

Indeed, and gmail addresses for production staff efforts is rather common in my experience. I also have some secondhand verity as to the identity of the OP.

50one
07-29-2016, 01:04 PM
Well, in that case that's great!

prometheus
07-29-2016, 01:04 PM
There are a LOT of irregularities in that article/release.

What do you refer to specificly if you please? I donīt grasp that...

"Preference given to EXPERIENCED GENERALISTS who are expert at Newtek’s Lightwave3d. The work may involve:
Object modelling and texturing,
Setting up all aspects of scene layouts, including camera, lighting, and FX.
CG set design to integrate with live action greenscreens,
Flying spaceships and character rigging and animation
Creating Previs and Animatics
Multi-tasking on several scenes per day"

Spinland
07-29-2016, 01:07 PM
Might be the case that some folks don't adapt quickly or well to how things are being done differently (on an accelerating basis) in many industries. As a tail end Baby Boomer working in a heavily Millennial environment I see the friction and suspicion almost daily.

All of that being said, so what? It's essentially an RFP and the poster has nothing really to gain by not being legit. Check it out, maybe even apply, or pass and move on with your life. It doesn't matter which you choose.

jeric_synergy
07-29-2016, 01:11 PM
There are a LOT of irregularities in that article/release.
Jen Hachigian (CelShader) vouched for it on FB, gave Kevin Quattro (Q) as the originator, or at least reposter.

That's some LW royalty right there, so it's probably legit.

+++

Might be the case that some folks don't adapt quickly or well to how things are being done differently (on an accelerating basis) in many industries. As a tail end Baby Boomer working in a heavily Millennial environment I see the friction and suspicion almost daily.
"Friction and suspicion"?? Like, oldsters not getting along with the younguns, and the younguns doubting the oldsters' methods?? (Serious question.)

(FWIW, the number of 20-somethings who blithely say things like, "and then just use FBX to bring it across!", like that's never had a problem EVAH, surprises me: maybe in their experience, it hasn't. Lucky tykes.)

js33
07-29-2016, 02:37 PM
I know in the past LW was used on a lot of TV shows but I thought they all moved to Maya, Max, etc...So I wonder why the sudden rush for LW animators? Not saying it's not legit just seems a little odd. Maybe someone realized there are a lot of talented people that use LW vs a lot of hacks using Maya, Max. Or maybe they just have a boatload of LW seats lying around from previous productions and just need butts to fill them.

OnlineRender
07-29-2016, 02:39 PM
can't believe a job comes up in LW and this is the response ...everybody battle stations

js33
07-29-2016, 02:43 PM
Well it does seem strange that we all act with disbelief when an actual job is posted.

It's because over the last 10 years there have been less and less jobs for LW to the point that they are mostly gone.

OnlineRender
07-29-2016, 02:51 PM
competition is tough as well , plenty of solid LW artists out there...

jeric_synergy
07-29-2016, 03:25 PM
Well it does seem strange that we all act with disbelief when an actual job is posted.

It's because over the last 10 years there have been less and less jobs for LW to the point that they are mostly gone.

I'd say "sad", but there ya go..... MAAANNNN, LW owned tv production for a while.

prometheus
07-29-2016, 03:48 PM
I know in the past LW was used on a lot of TV shows but I thought they all moved to Maya, Max, etc...So I wonder why the sudden rush for LW animators? Not saying it's not legit just seems a little odd. Maybe someone realized there are a lot of talented people that use LW vs a lot of hacks using Maya, Max. Or maybe they just have a boatload of LW seats lying around from previous productions and just need butts to fill them.

Neither the posted article and ad for lightwave generalist sounded suspicious in any way to me, think about it..not long ago it was declared that a new show would arise for a new star trek series, I actually discussed that on these forums and wondered if they would start hiring lightwave artist ..considering the track record, which also should answer your question that it seems odd.

Lightwave has under many of those series for the tv shows been used widely, so the responsible guys most certainly was up to date to what had been used ..sucessfully, thus I do not find it at least odd, you should also consider if they arenīt using multiple tools, perhaps lightwave for modeling and setting up scenes, then use maya for fluid dynamics if necessary etc.

And remember You just thought they all moved to Maya and max, you werenīt certain? :)

js33
07-29-2016, 03:54 PM
No I'm not certain of what they have been using lately. I heard Zoic which has worked on Star Trek shows in the past and was almost exclusively Lightwave had moved to Maya some time ago so I figured that was the general trend for houses that previously used Lightwave as their main app.

prometheus
07-29-2016, 03:59 PM
No I'm not certain of what they have been using lately. I heard Zoic which has worked on Star Trek shows in the past and was almost exclusively Lightwave had moved to Maya some time ago so I figured that was the general trend for houses that previously used Lightwave as their main app.

Oki doki..I understand the thoughts of that, maybe in regards to their Move to other softwve is more like, they actually have lightwave licenses, and had other work that suited better with maya and mostly maya, but when a show like this shows up again, simply wiping of the dust?
or they are simply lookin for other freelance artists and has nothing to do with zoic.

This is actually a far better continued positive re-direct of a topic thread, that is a bit too suspicious and which otherwise just seem too serve the concept of making a hen of a feather.
Better in the sense of taking a discussion on what the new lightwave release may offer for that show, providing they dare to use it, and if the lw team doesnīt take too long time to release it.
Discussion could ofcourse be a bit vague, since we do not have that much more than what was on the blogs.

A first question could be, what in the blog of the next lightwave release may seem to have something that could be extremly valuable for a show like that?

js33
07-29-2016, 04:07 PM
Oki doki..I understand the thoughts of that, maybe Move is more like, they actually have lightwave licenses, and had other work that suited better with maya and mostly maya, but when a show like this shows up again, simply wiping of the dust?
or they are simply lookin for other freelance artists and has nothing to do with zoic.

I have no idea if this job post involves Zoic. I just know they worked on Star Trek TV shows in the past.

js33
07-29-2016, 04:59 PM
The forum went down for a few minutes. I thought either they are secretly posting info about Lightwave Next but then thought, nah...they are just taking time to scrub some more threads but neither appears to be the case. Oh well, Ahead warp factor one. Mr. Sulu you have the conn.

danielkaiser
07-29-2016, 06:44 PM
Here's the job post on our very own forum.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?150917-CG-MODELLERS-%96-STAR-TREK-DISCOVERY-%96-CBS-Television-Prod-(Los-Angeles)

js33
07-29-2016, 07:01 PM
They say they may except remote workers. Maybe I should apply.

Surrealist.
07-29-2016, 09:49 PM
Interesting they say it different in this add at CG Talk they say must be on site.