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Dan Ritchie
05-04-2016, 11:33 AM
https://vimeo.com/165329517

prometheus
05-04-2016, 03:38 PM
https://vimeo.com/165329517

Thanks for sharing, itīs good to approach working with several layers of procedurals and mix them to enhance stuff a bit more, and often you can do magic with the same procedurals, but inverting one of the layers or offsetting or just change scaling a bit.

For interesting information to know ...there is however a simple procedural in lightwave, called cell..both as standard layer and also in node layer, and it has several cell type modes..like F2-F1, smooth step, step, cosine and lastly crystal..wich might be able to match what you did in your mixing of the layers, personally I think I would use that for crystals, though it is grate to know tricks.

Question is what the crumple procedural offers as better look than the crystal one, maybe a matter of taste:)

Thanks

jwiede
05-04-2016, 05:05 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how gemstones relate to the surface in question. Dan, can you explain the relationship?

prometheus
05-04-2016, 05:22 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how gemstones relate to the surface in question. Dan, can you explain the relationship?

I donīt see any relation to surfacing at all, and I donīt think it was intended to, itīs simply a gemstone texture..for use with displacement, I donīt recall him mentioning anything about the actual surfacing? :)

spherical
05-04-2016, 05:35 PM
I believe the proper term would be "crystalline".

jwiede
05-04-2016, 05:38 PM
I donīt see any relation to surfacing at all, and I donīt think it was intended to, itīs simply a gemstone texture..for use with displacement, I donīt recall him mentioning anything about the actual surfacing? :)

Not really my point. I don't see the procedural texture in question as particularly "gemstone"-like, unless perhaps in sense of raw, uncut stone (that when cut yields gemstones), so asked for clarification.

lertola2
05-04-2016, 05:44 PM
Thanks for sharing this. Its a really interesting idea. I am going to try it out.

prometheus
05-04-2016, 09:46 PM
Not really my point. I don't see the procedural texture in question as particularly "gemstone"-like, unless perhaps in sense of raw, uncut stone (that when cut yields gemstones), so asked for clarification.

Ahh..I see, I thought you ment surface confusion, but it is shape confusion I reckon, yes..it isnīt really gemstone, but crystal alike texture, I would also agree with that, as spherical also mentioned.

Though I would recommend take a look at the cell procedural and work in the crystal mode, it has some options there which crumple do not have, frequence,step size, jitter and vary, vary seed..
You can get some interesting, chip crystal like style..maybe suitable for stylized fortress of solitude ice? :)
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?150722-More-Terrain-landscapes-procedurals-different-variations-dunes-etc&p=1475000#post1475000

lertola2
05-04-2016, 11:46 PM
Though I would recommend take a look at the cell procedural and work in the crystal mode, it has some options there which crumple do not have, frequence,step size, jitter and vary, vary seed..

Thanks for pointing out that the cell procedural has options. I never noticed those before. The cosine option is similar to the crumple texture. And it works very well with Dan's method for making a gem texture.

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jeric_synergy
05-05-2016, 12:31 AM
Thanks for pointing out that the cell procedural has options.
133727
I'm not seeing this Cell procedural in either the Layers editors or the Node editor. Is it native?

+++
GOOGLE: looks like DPont RMAN. :D

lertola2
05-05-2016, 07:16 AM
I'm not seeing this Cell procedural in either the Layers editors or the Node editor. Is it native?

+++
GOOGLE: looks like DPont RMAN. :D


Yea. http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/Textures.htm

prometheus
05-05-2016, 09:42 AM
Yes...sorry guys, I forgot to mention it is part of dpontīrenderman collection....they seem so much standard to me now, that if you do not have them installed or know about them..then suit yourself:D

I think crystal mode is still the best, to mee it seems crytals mostly in come with the style of some bevel facets too, and I do not see that with the setup Dan does.




http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133732&d=1462462925

prometheus
05-05-2016, 10:16 AM
used delta material and changed it a bit...also hdr image for lighting radiosity and reflections.
might work better with sigma and dielectric though.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133733&d=1462464936

jwiede
05-05-2016, 01:34 PM
It still looks too uniform w.r.t. height of the "peaks" (IMO, anyway) if it's supposed to represent a "naturally broken" or "naturally grown" crystal surface*. What kind of real-world crystalline surface is being replicated?

*: Using "surface" in the "transition boundary" sense, not any "3D surfacing/material" sense.

prometheus
05-05-2016, 05:41 PM
It still looks too uniform w.r.t. height of the "peaks" (IMO, anyway) if it's supposed to represent a "naturally broken" or "naturally grown" crystal surface*. What kind of real-world crystalline surface is being replicated?

*: Using "surface" in the "transition boundary" sense, not any "3D surfacing/material" sense.

well that procedural displacement texture only goes so deep, though you can add procedurals with alpha modes to raise some parts and some lower..I wouldnīt go that way due to the nature of displacement not having uniformed divisisons when displaced, I would simply model the crystals, and you would ge away with less dense object as well, so that is one approach, the other would be to combine a modeled main shape with some height peaks, then divide that enough to use displacement with this procedural that is more suited for surace deep detail, or perhaps use a normal map.

lertola2
05-05-2016, 07:25 PM
Yes...sorry guys, I forgot to mention it is part of dpontīrenderman collection....they seem so much standard to me now, that if you do not have them installed or know about them..then suit yourself:D

I think crystal mode is still the best, to mee it seems crytals mostly in come with the style of some bevel facets too, and I do not see that with the setup Dan does.


I can see from your screen shot that you are doing some intense exploration of procedural textures. But I think the point is that Dan discovered a way to combine two versions of the same very curvy texture to get a very interesting faceted texture. I find that a little mind blowing. I have been trying it with other textures but the only two that it seems to work with so far is the crumple and the DP Rman Cells texture with the cosine option. Here is an animated version:

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133735&d=1462497414

I think there is still a lot of depth to be explored with the procedural textures. I use them a lot in my work and I enjoy finding out more about them.

prometheus
05-05-2016, 09:04 PM
I can see from your screen shot that you are doing some intense exploration of procedural textures. But I think the point is that Dan discovered a way to combine two versions of the same very curvy texture to get a very interesting faceted texture. I find that a little mind blowing. I have been trying it with other textures but the only two that it seems to work with so far is the crumple and the DP Rman Cells texture with the cosine option. Here is an animated version:

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133735&d=1462497414

I think there is still a lot of depth to be explored with the procedural textures. I use them a lot in my work and I enjoy finding out more about them.

Well..the thing is I had something else going on with terrain stuff and fractals, so never mind all the other fractals, they were just there in a previous grid displacement I worked and I used that as a starting point when I run in to this thread..so yeah:) intense..but has nothing at all to do with this, then I just added the cell procedural tweaked a few settings...then done, so when that option is there I would go for that with crystals....though Dans findings are useful in other ways.

One point is that one procedural texture i a standard layer can acheive similar look..or even more close to crystals than the method Dan Uses here, not to take away from dan that itīs nice to know these tricks..had we not this other procedural available..that would be a nice option.

Anyway..sure, mixing the same procedural by inverting or changing it slightly can yield interesting effects...I always do similar mixing stuff, but not directly with nodes..rather blending them straight on in standard layres...so sure, good to know he node ways too.

Same goes with simple hypervoxels procedural textures, those are not invertable, so you need to enter node editor, the turbulence noise can be a nice one when it is inverted, and add other procedurals and feed in to the turbulent noise position and some nice undulation will happen that isnīt originally possible.

Back to crystals...You keep saying the cosine option for the cell procedural..why do you think that is the best, instead of the crystal one?
Oh yeah....nice little transformation anim there :)

jwiede
05-05-2016, 09:42 PM
Same goes with simple hypervoxels procedural textures, those are not invertable

Speaking of "low-hanging fruit"... :devil: Hopefully the new surfacing won't impose such arbitrary limitations.

Dan Ritchie
05-06-2016, 08:50 AM
Had pretty good success combining 2 different scale instances of the crystaline texture using min or max.

There's no vector version of min/max, you you have to split it out to scalers and recomine into a vector later.

133740

jeric_synergy
05-06-2016, 12:21 PM
Had pretty good success combining 2 different scale instances of the crystaline texture using min or max.

There's no vector version of min/max, you you have to split it out to scalers and recomine into a vector later.

133740
I think people neglect the ability to A) save nodal networks and re-import, and B) create (and save) compound nodes.

prometheus
05-06-2016, 12:52 PM
Had pretty good success combining 2 different scale instances of the crystaline texture using min or max.

There's no vector version of min/max, you you have to split it out to scalers and recomine into a vector later.

133740

Looks quite good, which procedural did you use know? was it crumple or something else? or do you mean the cell procedural with crystal type?

Maybe make the main rock a bit more grey, and then gradually fade to green where it starts to crystalize?

lertola2
05-06-2016, 03:38 PM
Had pretty good success combining 2 different scale instances of the crystaline texture using min or max.

There's no vector version of min/max, you you have to split it out to scalers and recomine into a vector later.

133740

The shape looks great. The rendering strikes me as being way to dark. Maybe you could brighten it up to look like a gold nugget: https://www.google.com/search?q=gold+nugget&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjY3KKqs8bMAhVIMz4KHT2MB6QQ_AUIBygB&biw=1215&bih=860&dpr=1.2#imgrc=F8HrFoAgmOblEM%3A

prometheus
05-06-2016, 04:12 PM
The shape looks great. The rendering strikes me as being way to dark. Maybe you could brighten it up to look like a gold nugget: https://www.google.com/search?q=gold+nugget&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjY3KKqs8bMAhVIMz4KHT2MB6QQ_AUIBygB&biw=1215&bih=860&dpr=1.2#imgrc=F8HrFoAgmOblEM%3A


Just need some radiosity, and have the backdrop color white, but in the compositing tab, check the use backGround color and set that one to black...lower intensity so itīs not full 100%, or simply add fill lights, but radiosity is so fast this days, so unless animated it should do fine.

And gold nuggets are a bit more melted and round, so I would suggest just change material to be more grey rock as mentioned, and fade over with mix material to a sigma or dieletric...maybe delta material in greenish tone, that would look great I think.
There are no gold diggers here:D


Must add..hdr images for better reflections in the crystal than plain wite backdrop would ofcourse be better.

prometheus
05-06-2016, 05:23 PM
so what do we have in terms of different crystals..a lot I think, but letīs start with green ones perhaps..

Unfortunatly I am no healing or geo expert :)

Uvarovite perhaps..
https://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=1079&q=Uvarovite&oq=Uvarovite&gs_l=img.3..0i19l7j0i30i19l3.1851.1851.0.3073.1.1. 0.0.0.0.75.75.1.1.0....0...1ac..64.img..0.1.75.S59 WY-CvFF0


itīs gonna be interesting to see how the new volumetric surface mode will work, if it can utilize the new pbr materials ..and if volumetric radiosity doesnīt hang the whole computer as it did for me last time I tested, had to reboot the whole computer.
and we may have to wait for microdisplacement a little more. I reckon modeling some main shape part,use displacement or normal maps for detail and then instance with a lot of variations could be a good way.


flourite?...
https://www.google.se/search?q=fluorite&biw=1920&bih=1079&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjOx5_WycbMAhUE1iwKHYbKD20Q_AUIBigB

Dan Ritchie
05-06-2016, 05:57 PM
itīs gonna be interesting to see how the new volumetric surface mode will work, if it can utilize the new pbr materials ..and if volumetric radiosity doesnīt hang the whole computer as it did for me last time I tested, had to reboot the whole computer.
and we may have to wait for microdisplacement a little more. I reckon modeling some main shape part,use displacement or normal maps for detail and then instance with a lot of variations could be a good way.
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I'd love to have control over the density of the hypervoxels at the center. Right now, they are dense in the middle and taper off until they come to a threshold between the voxel and regular space. The problem is that they are so dense in the middle that all the interesting stuff happens on the threshold, like a gas giant planet. I'd love to have control over density so, for example, you could cut all the way through them with textures.

prometheus
05-06-2016, 07:01 PM
I'd love to have control over the density of the hypervoxels at the center. Right now, they are dense in the middle and taper off until they come to a threshold between the voxel and regular space. The problem is that they are so dense in the middle that all the interesting stuff happens on the threshold, like a gas giant planet. I'd love to have control over density so, for example, you could cut all the way through them with textures.

Yeah..but arenīt you talking about the other thread with the hv bug now? since you were messing with that texture on voxels too there, we canīt see what you refere to here since the things posted here is displacements.

yes voxels are nice for details without artifacts with lack of proper displacement, but on the other hand it lack surface materials like sigma etc, and lack of proper radiosity (extremly slow or freezes) and it also has issues of the actual hypertexture following the surface properly.


old rock test...mixing

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119495&d=1390383267