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MichaelT
04-29-2016, 04:59 PM
I sometimes play around with various things.. right now I am just playing around making terrains. But unlike I usually do.. which is just tossing things away. I decided that maybe someone want it? So, I packed the terrain I was playing around with (using 7-zip, available free here: http://www.7-zip.org .. I don't pack it using zip because that would make it 3-4 times larger) and stored it here:

http://www.planetrift.com/gfx/lw/Terrain.7z

It is ~27mb, and 190mb unpacked. This is a low resolution version with nothing special in it. I have a much (as in really much) higher resolution one, but unless you have an ungodly amount of RAM in your rig (and it is fast) you will not be able to use it. So I thought, this would be suitable for most people. Like I said, it is just the terrain, with nothing really in it. Do whatever you like with it, I give this free for any and all, for any use what so ever.

Have fun :)

133640

spherical
04-29-2016, 05:19 PM
Thanks! DLed & will play around with it. What was the method that you used to create it? How large is the high rez version? I have a decent amount of RAM in a respectably fast box, so would be interested in looking at what is possible.

MichaelT
04-29-2016, 05:55 PM
Thanks! DLed & will play around with it. What was the method that you used to create it? How large is the high rez version? I have a decent amount of RAM in a respectably fast box, so would be interested in looking at what is possible.

I use WorldMachine mostly, but in this case is was a combination of World Creator & L3DT (because when it comes to working with huge terrains, few (if any) can beat it) World Creator is very good, and gives good quick results. It is also limited compared to the others, but some (game companies in particular) favor it so.. that is really only why I use it. But I digress, I used WordCreator to generate an interesting terrain, then used L3DT to fix some close edges (that sometimes get created) as they would create bad wrinkles in the terrain. After that I used a closed script, to create a new terrain, that is quad based only. One high, and one much lower res (the one you have) After that I loaded into LW, and hit tab to get a surface without the quads that ended up in weird angles. Added a little noise for the terrain to make it look a bit better for the still. And that was it really.

As for the size of the large terrain, it is ~2Gb in size. As for how many polygons? I didn't check, but unless you have ~32Gb RAM I highly doubt you can do much at all with it. At any rate, it would be far to big for me to send on the net.

prometheus
04-29-2016, 06:30 PM
Thanks..always good when folks share, though honestly I myself will not have much use of it..I hope it doesnīt sound I am racking down on it, itīs just that this kind of terrain you can (or at least I can) create pretty fairly easy in lightwave only...it hasnīt got any erosion really ..some pitted stuff, but with right procedural mix that is easy to set up.

Thanks anyway..the polygons are around 2.3 millions, and it loaded fine in the lw 11.6.2 32 bit. with 12 GB ram, in layout that is ..trying to switch to modeler with 32 bit..eh, still loading...

i was trying to add some additional detail on it with displacement, but I woulndīt recommend that on already freezed object at 2.3 millions, it will be very slow to navigate and update, unless setting a threshold bounding box level.

Terrain is 1km wide and in depth, 201 meters high.

erikals
04-29-2016, 06:35 PM
fairly easy in lightwave only

myeah... does take a bit practice first for newbs, so for a test object this can save some time.

and you'd only get there 90%. some details would have to be painted/image mapped (mainly the Z depth) (see image)

interesting read on WorldMachine / World Creator & L3DT.


bought WorldMachine 1.0 some time back, might upgrade, maybe.



i was trying to add some additional detail on it with displacement, but I woulndīt recommend that on already freezed object at 2.3 millions, it will be very slow to navigate and update, unless setting a threshold bounding box level.
one could create a lowres+normal map version, then add SubD+displacement detail.

MichaelT
04-29-2016, 06:50 PM
Thanks..always good when folks share, though honestly I myself will not have much use of it..I hope it doesnīt sound I am racking down on it, itīs just that this kind of terrain you can (or at least I can) create pretty fairly easy in lightwave only...it hasnīt got any erosion really ..some pitted stuff, but with right procedural mix that is easy to set up.

Thanks anyway..the polygons are around 2.3 millions, and it loaded fine in the lw 11.6.2 32 bit. with 12 GB ram, in layout that is ..trying to switch to modeler with 32 bit..eh, still loading...

i was trying to add some additional detail on it with displacement, but I woulndīt recommend that on already freezed object at 2.3 millions, it will be very slow to navigate and update, unless setting a threshold bounding box level.

Terrain is 1km wide and in depth, 201 meters high.

:) It's OK, like I said before I am not easily offended. So don't worry. This type of terrain with this kind of erosion isn't that easily created in LW though. It is far more complicated than using WorldCreator I'm afraid. Although I am happily proven wrong of course :) In any case, I gave this mostly because some people don't know how to create a terrain, and (or) want something to place their models in. I know this looks 'spacey' but it can just as easily be on a normal planet. Add some sky, proper texturing and trees etc.. and you are on your way. So it is good for inspiration I felt.

erikals
04-29-2016, 06:58 PM
'spacey''spacey' is cool  http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


This type of terrain with this kind of erosion isn't that easily created in LW though.
i don't think it's too difficult, but getting the right settings the first time around is slightly time consuming.
+you'd have to paint or sculpt detail on the Z depth as a last step.

that said, both Prom and i have been testing this quite a bit, so we are semi-pro at it  http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

prometheus
04-29-2016, 07:00 PM
myeah... does take a bit practice first for newbs, so for a test object this can save some time.

and you'd only get there 90%. some details would have to be painted/image mapped (mainly the Z depth) (see image)




interesting read on WorldMachine / World Creator & L3DT.


bought WorldMachine 1.0 some time back, might upgrade, maybe.



one could create a lowres+normal map version, then add SubD+displacement detail.

I would say I donīt think that is necessary to paint in detail for this ..should be enough with displacements.. well z depth, if you use dp rocks in 3d mode, you can get there and also use normal mapping, but overall for this terrain sample..not at all hard to acheive for me.

erikals
04-29-2016, 07:06 PM
not at all hard to achieve for me.
see my very last comment  http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

i think it's more about "knowing the tricks"

prometheus
04-29-2016, 07:07 PM
:) It's OK, like I said before I am not easily offended. So don't worry. This type of terrain with this kind of erosion isn't that easily created in LW though. It is far more complicated than using WorldCreator I'm afraid. Although I am happily proven wrong of course :) In any case, I gave this mostly because some people don't know how to create a terrain, and (or) want something to place their models in. I know this looks 'spacey' but it can just as easily be on a normal planet. Add some sky, proper texturing and trees etc.. and you are on your way. So it is good for inspiration I felt.

I really donīt see much erosion..if yo do not mean the actual terrain shaping...so I wouldnīt say itīs hard to create, then again..I have messed A lot with terrains and procedurals, so I know I can create all kinds of stuff, except for fluvial style erosion..wich I would have to add with worldmachine, you can render out a heightmap from lightwave then import to worldmachine and produce the erosion on that, so in essence you make the terrains with lightwaves procedurals, like ridge multifractal, dented, windy wave, marble, dp rock etc and mix that in all kinds of layers in lightwave, render out a hight map and do the erosion in world machine.
you could also try and fake with distorting the proceudral layers if you set the textur mode to texture displacement, that way you can get some strange alien looking distortion flow erosion, but it will never be physicly or realisticly correct.

The problem with freezed terrain directly as opposed to exporting it out to height map, you have to be certain that is the final terrain I think, as I said, you canīt go in and add other detail, but that might on the other hand not be crucial if you do it right the first place.

yes..worldmachin is great..this was extracted from that..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4hTm0xjpis


I might show samples later, got to eat before I starve though :9

Michael...

prometheus
04-29-2016, 07:37 PM
see my very last comment  http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

i think it's more about "knowing the tricks"

True..I beg you pardon for being cocky and sitting on high piedestal here:o

David Aguero mostly takes on the full procedural approach, since he also knows the ins and outs of displacement..canīt find his vid now though, but it allows for a lot of iterations in a procedural workflow.
using alpha layers to blend or block out parts, use additive layers or mutiply when needed..and not to mention nodes, though I tend to avoid those and prefer the standard layers.

erikals
04-29-2016, 08:51 PM
agh, almost morning... the flu surely has fun with my day rhythm...


i found this video, but it "only" shows the very basics.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXMFYztrigc


another example,
again, very nice, but not the complexity of the rock formations in this first post (#1)
http://davidaguero.com.ar/tag/lanscape

prometheus
04-29-2016, 08:59 PM
Thatīs the one I ment, itīs great..though I know (high piedestal again:) how to acheive similar ..I think he got the lighting fog and water and texture very nicely.

Ah..morning here too I should be going up for standard time, but instead I am going down :) I will post some terrain samples tomorrow on another thread I think, I need to post some screenprints.. with just opengl and the displacement, and I will probably do that on the picasa google albums.Now I got to hurry back to my coffin now before the sun comes up though.
See ya.

erikals
04-29-2016, 09:17 PM
looking very much forward to it, will be a fun read.

yeah, i should hit the sack too, but first, a movie... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

http://is2.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music69/v4/1f/13/7f/1f137f4a-8268-c996-5970-df78555bab80/source/200x200bb.jpg

MichaelT
04-30-2016, 01:50 AM
:) Nice, but those I can make in LW myself actually. It is when one breaks up the terrain, have pieces fallen down slopes, erode it in places, and generally create something more life like.. when the problems arise. If things had been as easy (or easier) without tools like World machine etc.. then nobody would use them. I am not saying impossible here.. of course not, but it is also important to remember the productivity aspect of it. Most companies simply cannot afford an artist to tinker until something good comes along. Just to make the point that while it may be easy for you, it certainly isn't for most. Like erikals said, it is about knowing the tricks. That said, looking forward to the postings, it is always nice to learn new things and see what others have worked on :)

prometheus
04-30-2016, 07:59 AM
:) Nice, but those I can make in LW myself actually. It is when one breaks up the terrain, have pieces fallen down slopes, erode it in places, and generally create something more life like.. when the problems arise. If things had been as easy (or easier) without tools like World machine etc.. then nobody would use them. I am not saying impossible here.. of course not, but it is also important to remember the productivity aspect of it. Most companies simply cannot afford an artist to tinker until something good comes along. Just to make the point that while it may be easy for you, it certainly isn't for most. Like erikals said, it is about knowing the tricks. That said, looking forward to the postings, it is always nice to learn new things and see what others have worked on :)

I donīt work on it :) itīs just pure fun for some minutes, and I haveīt been using it really in any work.
You are correct that World machine generally can produce better erosion..but breaking up the terrain an have pieces falling down slopes?, i donīt think theres anything that world machine has in technology that wouldnīt be doable with the procedurals in lightwave..except for the erosion..then itīs mostly about masking and using good functions and worldmachine has those functions suitable for creating terrain.

those areas that are broken up in your terrain I ---think you simply can apply another procudural with alpha mode settings, and additinal previous layer gradient to controll how hard it should be, on top of that ..additional pitting layer that only will affect those are where they were broken up, and as such you would have pieces fallen down slopes.

other than you got the terrain broken up, there is not any advanced erosion going on as I can see, more just pitted dents in those areas, so that is why I mentioned that specific sample is quite easy( for me to do) and the main techniques are super easy too in general, you just need to now how layers affect eachother, but itīs not as complicated as many other lightwave knowledged skills ..like nodes or advanced motion graphics etc.

I have to go through print screens and reduce the image size and convert from bmp to jpg..since the screen shots turned out so large in size, will be back later.

sorry if the spelling fails here and there, my keyboard is dying so some letters may stray away.

MichaelT
04-30-2016, 08:10 AM
No there isn't (in wm) but then I wasn't talking about that program either in that sentence. I was talking more generally. I do have other tools to break things up, and having them fall down slopes etc.. That aside though, it is not a competition either :) Just something I put out for anyone to have fun with. Speaking of which.. I intended to update the OP, with a more high resolution one. Again, for anyone to have fun with. But it seems it get locked when there are answers. So I put it here instead:

http://www.planetrift.com/gfx/lw/Terrain2.7z
133642

Unlike the first one, this uses heightmap, normalmap, displacement etc.. so it should be easy to mess around with.
Again, no special things in the scene. That part I leave up to you guys. And again, free for all, and any use (yes, even commercial)

prometheus
04-30-2016, 09:10 AM
No there isn't (in wm) but then I wasn't talking about that program either in that sentence. I was talking more generally. I do have other tools to break things up, and having them fall down slopes etc.. That aside though, it is not a competition either :) Just something I put out for anyone to have fun with. Speaking of which.. I intended to update the OP, with a more high resolution one. Again, for anyone to have fun with. But it seems it get locked when there are answers. So I put it here instead:

http://www.planetrift.com/gfx/lw/Terrain2.7z
133642

Unlike the first one, this uses heightmap, normalmap, displacement etc.. so it should be easy to mess around with.
Again, no special things in the scene. That part I leave up to you guys. And again, free for all, and any use (yes, even commercial)

yes..you got more erosion there, but you do have a lot of artifact, shouldnīt you blur that heightmap slightly? I do not think that is intentional terrace structure..

hereīs just some screen caps...of some procedural layers only..

Check all images here..some various stuff..
https://picasaweb.google.com/100944643113557837045/6279357421243485041


Only lightwave procedurals..no image maps on any of the terrains.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MOsWSTL5ChY/VyTIL2yivNI/AAAAAAAACuA/du9E5J2KbMoCDggatzyGJt4gDKciy0tBACCo/s1280/ScreenShot003.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vjFyMnXEUcI/VyTIXwd-CGI/AAAAAAAACuA/l0IzKxEAptovTXUZ4tlW5Awey_elX7A8QCCo/s1280/ScreenShot685.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6wiEX3YzQ9s/VyTCT59iqJI/AAAAAAAACsE/W5MxpBZRICc7hpdVHvQqHDI6gSkWDJNmACCo/s1280/ScreenShot677.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iJlo_4W39zQ/VyTDHlRM68I/AAAAAAAACtM/Copi0F-bAcYFtGqAGJNhY70LsXUO17UDgCCo/s1280/ScreenShot693.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XvLn4nNl2GQ/VyTDSAI2HfI/AAAAAAAACtU/3ykq8Mpb8kk7kfUZ_ELrj815e8XQuGH9wCCo/s1280/ScreenShot696.jpg

erikals
04-30-2016, 09:16 AM
even though i do like those, i would go the WorldMachine route for Large Mountain realism.

WorldMachine does look better imo on large mountain chains.

on more closeup stuff (large rocks) i would go the LightWave procedural route.

(alternatively 3DCoat)

prometheus
04-30-2016, 09:23 AM
even though i do like those, i would go the WorldMachine route for Large Mountain realism.

WorldMachine does look better imo on large mountain chains.

on more closeup stuff (large rocks) i would go the LightWave procedural route.

(alternatively 3DCoat)

I agree..though I just put this stuff up within some minutes ..so if I were to go for more realism, I could, but as you say.worldmachine is the best bet for that.

I also had a thread somewhere showcasing the options we now got with the texture fallof in modeler, so cliff overhang or adding erosion localy with lightwaves magnet or scale or move options and setting a point radial fallof is a nice feature, you can either paint an erosion map specificly for it, or get some heightmap parts that seems fitting from real maps, or use the procedural..and map that to the texture falloff when moving and scaliing in lightwave modeler..I showcased that, but as I recall you do not have 2015?

Blender also has a special plugin for terrain ANT...which must be activated first in the preferences, after initial terrain generation, you can go in and sculpt on it..with procedural noises, or use image maps.

Regarding large mountain chains, I would advice to use the ridged multifractal, try out different scaling and also not just use the perlin noise function, try the others too, and mix with additianl same procedural but at different scaling position, you can also simply paint the main ridge or use modeler initial for the ridge, then add detail with procedurals.

Ohh..darn it..I am sorry MichaelT...I shouldnīt pollute your thread here, I said I should post it on another thread but I forgot..sorry.

MichaelT
04-30-2016, 09:33 AM
Don't worry about that :) It is still about having fun. Post all you like :)

As for artifacts.. well, this was just quick work. And it is free, so smoothing is optional.

Another case when L3DT comes in handy (for example) because I can move around in a terrain and fix what I don't like. Then export it again. Sadly is isn't very user friendly, so most people only think it can do crap terrains. Despite it having similar functionality as WorldMachine. It does have nodes to create terrains too, hidden away. First time I just happened to find it by luck. Like I said, not user friendly. But more powerful than people give it credit for.

prometheus
04-30-2016, 09:54 AM
The good thing if you can get away with lw terrain only, you do not have to build to a device like in worldmachine, so all procedural changes almost instantly ..depending on though, If you have 1-2 millions it may take a few seconds.
It is no surprise though that you have to build the terrain in worldmachine, I guess it is quite advanced algorithms to get the erosion right, I mean, the initial fractal generation is one thing, but the calculation and algorithms that is needed is something else, I do not know if it analyzes a geometric point cloud/mesh and then apply the erosion, or if it just analyzes the resulting heighmap and apply the erosion?

Now it isnīt possible with just lightwave procedurals to work as an overlay on top of other procedurals and distort or add undulated REALISTIC erosions, I got some faked ones that can look nice(fourth image..flow noise undulations)..but not at the level and realism nor physicly near any real erosion, thereīs too much advection on some parts where you got too much of rounded advection spots, though it looks nicer on the top of the ridge at some parts.

So for good erosion to happen it would need complex algoritms etc..so you can just as well use worldmachine I guess, would be nice if it were bought and released as a plugin working in layout though :)

Im a bit yealous of you erikals, since you got so much reference around you..though I should take the time and travel over there, but not sure wich (Shortest) route from stockholm I should take to get to good locations in norway? I could just browse the internet, but I also want a real first hand experience :)

erikals
04-30-2016, 11:08 AM
just a visual explanation of adding a texture...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHzwVfoZRxg

prometheus
04-30-2016, 11:33 AM
just a visual explanation of adding a texture...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHzwVfoZRxg

Thatīs a new one, havenīt thought about that..will have to take a look if that offers better ways of adding detail than just reference something to a null, probably if the displacement is facing/ directed towards the same angle as the projection camera is facing the terrain, thus it might work better than a null reference?

regarding you said the alpha clip didnīt work, I noticed you had that as subtracted mode..not sure if that is causing it?

and for other falloff stuff, you could try add the dot procedural, and scale as you, want, itīs great for rounded falloffs and I use that often to make terrain with zero edges..since I can controll the fuziness radius etc, and on top of that you can add a previous layer gradient that will affect the dot procedural and thus get different sharp or smooth cut offs which is derived from the dot procedural itself.

Though we should really have a simple curve function with graphical curve editing in the falloff tabs, I really hate those as they are now.

erikals
04-30-2016, 12:04 PM
the projection technique is great imo, and it can also fairly easily be added to highres objects, if needed.
like MichaelT's first object in post #1


not sure why alpha didn't work, probably an user error... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif
edit, yep...

f* google
the texture must be gray at the edges so the edges doesnt show

erikalst
ah great :) i through that a tough as for Zbrush compability.
thanks for info!


ah, dot procedural, forgot, wouldn't use it in this exact case, but thanks, good idea!

yeah, falloffs are pretty linear now. http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


just wanted to add some info to that video...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wi0JdaTv-k

spherical
04-30-2016, 04:07 PM
I intended to update the OP, with a more high resolution one. Again, for anyone to have fun with. But it seems it get locked when there are answers. So I put it here instead:

Thanks. I'll check it out. This thread has become very interesting, with lots of approaches I'd never have guessed.

BTW, the post editing ability is on a timer. Unsure of how long it is, seems like it might be an hour or more, but after a period the Edit Post link no longer shows up.

MichaelT
04-30-2016, 05:16 PM
Interesting... well, that's OK I suppose. It would still be nice to be able to add to the OP (by having the posted content locked) so new additions get included below it. It would allow for having things collected in one place. But no matter.. :)

Yes, it is nice to see lots of ideas popping up. I hope it helps readers seeing this. Especially those who sometimes are afraid to ask.. for one reason or another.

prometheus
05-01-2016, 07:23 PM
Im posting some other terrain stuff in another thread in the tips and tricks section, starting of with some dunes, in this case it was all just procedurals and displacement, though you might get away with bump actually for the finer dune undulations..theres some images of the different layers, and a youtube vid..also showcasing color picking from dune images from the web.

I might post other types of terrains later.

Hereīs the thread...
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?150722-More-Terrain-landscapes-procedurals-different-variations-dunes-etc

MichaelT
05-02-2016, 03:20 PM
Nice :) I'll have a look