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View Full Version : Beware, Quicktime is allegedly no longer supported on Windoze



pinkmouse
04-14-2016, 02:55 PM
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/04/14/uninstall_quicktime_for_windows/

Take that as you will, but I thought a "heads up" was in order.

MichaelT
04-14-2016, 04:05 PM
Haven't used Quicktime for many.. many years now. I use mp4 for pretty much everything video related. No codec installs needed, and basically works directly everywhere, and on anything.

prometheus
04-14-2016, 04:41 PM
Not sure how it will turn out..but for me, I use it all the time, I prefer to render out vpr test with quicktime anim or h256, playback video tutorials since that offers the best scroll slider back and forth, and loading youtube vids in to after effects etc.

calilifestyle
04-14-2016, 05:11 PM
Yeah been using H256

spherical
04-14-2016, 06:33 PM
It was already back in 2013 and its demise has been on the horizon since 2002.

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2013/11/quicktime-is-deprecated-what-does-that-mean-in-practice/

BeeVee
04-15-2016, 03:39 AM
I use VLC to playback QuickTime, there's no need to have it installed (I don't have iTunes either).

B

spherical
04-15-2016, 04:42 AM
iTunes hasn't needed QuickTime for a number of versions, now. That's part of the depreciation plan.

souzou
04-15-2016, 06:07 AM
Ah crap that's annoying. We still deliver nearly all our broadcast work to clients as uncompressed QTs (or ProRes). Not sure what we can do as an alternative.

omichon
04-15-2016, 06:26 AM
But could you really avoid QT when Apple Prores and Avid DNxHD are the exchange standards with your clients ?

Edit : it seems I am in the same situation as you Souzou ;)

pinkmouse
04-15-2016, 06:37 AM
Buy a Mac? :D

souzou
04-15-2016, 07:11 AM
We supported the MOX format (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mox-file-format#/) but that's all gone a bit quiet.

souzou
04-15-2016, 07:14 AM
Buy a Mac? :D

Ha, we have two. We can always render out image sequences to then rerender from one of the macs it's just extra time/hassle.

tommyc
04-15-2016, 07:31 AM
We supported the MOX format (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mox-file-format#/) but that's all gone a bit quiet.

I chipped on that also. Its a real shame it seems to be dead.

m.d.
04-15-2016, 08:58 AM
only place that could sting is prores....dnxhd is quite often mxf now anyway....

All windows mov decoding using QuickTime (fusion, Avid, ect) has only ever been 32bit, only the GUI is 64 bit....but the process itself is 32 (other than Adobe which uses a proprietary non Apple decoder) so we avoided it where we could.

So even though it may be no longer supported by Apple, the Windows support was worthless, and as long as Adobe and a few others continue their support and develop decoders....it won't be that big a deal

Ma3rk
04-15-2016, 08:59 AM
Not sure how it will turn out..but for me, I use it all the time, I prefer to render out vpr test with quicktime anim or h256, playback video tutorials since that offers the best scroll slider back and forth, and loading youtube vids in to after effects etc.

... not to mention certain products like Video CoPilot's "Action Essentials" are released in mov format.

Obviously, Apple prefers to focus on where they see the most profit and these days that's not on their computers or software.

prometheus
04-15-2016, 09:47 AM
I use VLC to playback QuickTime, there's no need to have it installed (I don't have iTunes either).

B


Yes VLC is great, but still not as smooth as quicktime when you watch tutorials or want to check a certain effect especially by scrolling back and forth...
but maybe the VLC team has released a new better version that does that just as good?

ivanze
04-15-2016, 10:00 AM
Well, I've been having a problem in my laptop with Windows 10, Lightwave 2015.3 64 bit. It says that Quicktime is not installed and doensn't import any .mov files.

calilifestyle
04-15-2016, 10:36 AM
Well i guess Divx is an option ... maybe they can make a comeback.

BeeVee
04-15-2016, 10:40 AM
Well, I've been having a problem in my laptop with Windows 10, Lightwave 2015.3 64 bit. It says that Quicktime is not installed and doensn't import any .mov files.

And have you installed Quicktime?

B

Markc
04-15-2016, 12:01 PM
... not to mention certain products like Video CoPilot's "Action Essentials" are released in mov format.

Obviously, Apple prefers to focus on where they see the most profit and these days that's not on their computers or software.

There a plenty of applications that can playback those files though :)
Does Windows standard player not play them back?

wibly wobly
04-15-2016, 12:57 PM
This more then a video player problem imo. Programs, esp editing software use QT for importing and exporting. There's also video cameras that record in QT. I read earlier today that apparently it's been known that Apple was going to stop supporting QT but, it's the first time I've heard about it. The QT player has a lot of features in it that I use all the time and I use software on a daily basis that uses QT for importing and exporting. Having Apple rage quit because they don't like fixing security issues with their own software isn't that helpful right now. If they made an announcement that they were ending support in X days or months so that dev from other software companies could deal with a cross over to other tools that would be one thing. As of right now, I can't uninstall it. All I can do is kill browser plugins and kill any QT network activity with my firewall and hope it works in the meantime.

DonJMyers
04-15-2016, 03:40 PM
Quicktime is essential a codec wrapper right? So I can see why it would be no longer needed.

spherical
04-15-2016, 04:21 PM
Yes VLC is great, but still not as smooth as quicktime when you watch tutorials or want to check a certain effect especially by scrolling back and forth... but maybe the VLC team has released a new better version that does that just as good?

Just two days ago I went to watch Matt's tutorial on brushed metal and VLC would load it but not display the video track. Only the audio was coming through. Opened it in QuickTime Player and it went as expected. Perhaps there's a codec missing in VLC, which is the latest version BTW -- so you'd think that this wouldn't be an issue, but other QuickTime mov files run in it fine. Unsure what the issue was with Matt's, but there seems to be some situations where QuickTime is still a good solution. That, and having the ability to cure the alpha problem in some files. Hmmm... perhaps that is what Matt's file has. I'll check.

Additionally, there's QuickTIme Alternative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTime_Alternative) but it hasn't been updated since 2010. It was originally developed way back when to be more secure than Apple's software.

JamesCurtis
04-15-2016, 04:51 PM
I recently installed QuickTime on new Win8.1 machine and had problems with it not wanting to recognize file formats and putting up an error. The odd thing is that I have on other machine which is also running 8.1 and it has no issues at all!

I basically used it to assemble frame images into .mp4 format for client Web video work. I do have Sony Vegas for that job as well, but QT was/is easier.

Not sure why one Win8.1 install of QT works and the other doesn't.

Ma3rk
04-15-2016, 05:00 PM
There a plenty of applications that can playback those files though :)
Does Windows standard player not play them back?

VLC plays them (more or less), but the issue is being able to use them in compositing apps such as After Effects as the mov's have alpha channels. Converting them (as there are several HUNDRED) is not really an option.

The real solution is for Apple to man-up, grow a pair and support the products that they spent so much time turning into a standard & essentially made their company, instead of making highly over priced watches and trying to get into the car business!

But perhaps that's just me.

wibly wobly
04-15-2016, 05:36 PM
Quicktime is essential a codec wrapper right? So I can see why it would be no longer needed.

From my understanding the files themselves are more or less but the software is more then just a player. Some software, like editors and compositing software use Quicktime as a loader and saver (among other things). If you install something like Aftereffects, Premier, Avid, Resolve and Nuke (from what I hear, though never used it) it needs QT when installed. QT also has a lot of really handy formats (and embedded features) that I've been using for more then 10 years. There probably is now but things like having a frame count or time code and the ability to do 2 or 3 ups of versions in the same file, alpha channels etc is incredibly useful. They also move from Windows to Mac seamlessly. I don't think it's really a deliverable format anymore but, it used to be. It's been used a lot for editing for a long time. Everyone I know uses QT for editing. If there was a well announced timeline that they were ending support people could deal with a change but, dropping it all of a sudden is pretty problematic. For most people this is probably a who cares moment but, it's def a real problem for some people.

HenrikSkoglund
04-16-2016, 10:19 AM
Yes VLC is great, but still not as smooth as quicktime when you watch tutorials or want to check a certain effect especially by scrolling back and forth...
but maybe the VLC team has released a new better version that does that just as good?

Try MPC-HC (https://mpc-hc.org/). I ditched VLC after trying this out, it's incredibly quick, smooth and minimalistic.

Anyone who knows if Quicktime is needed by Lightwave 3D in any other way than for using or saving .mov files?


Thanks

prometheus
04-16-2016, 10:46 AM
Try MPC-HC (https://mpc-hc.org/). I ditched VLC after trying this out, it's incredibly quick, smooth and minimalistic.

Anyone who knows if Quicktime is needed by Lightwave 3D in any other way than for using or saving .mov files?


Thanks

thanks for the heads up on that, will check later.
Quick time vr and stereo is what is there for lightwave apart from the standard compressor.

m.d.
04-16-2016, 11:11 AM
From my understanding the files themselves are more or less but the software is more then just a player. Some software, like editors and compositing software use Quicktime as a loader and saver (among other things). If you install something like Aftereffects, Premier, Avid, Resolve and Nuke (from what I hear, though never used it) it needs QT when installed. QT also has a lot of really handy formats (and embedded features) that I've been using for more then 10 years. There probably is now but things like having a frame count or time code and the ability to do 2 or 3 ups of versions in the same file, alpha channels etc is incredibly useful. They also move from Windows to Mac seamlessly. I don't think it's really a deliverable format anymore but, it used to be. It's been used a lot for editing for a long time. Everyone I know uses QT for editing. If there was a well announced timeline that they were ending support people could deal with a change but, dropping it all of a sudden is pretty problematic. For most people this is probably a who cares moment but, it's def a real problem for some people.

Adobe products don't use the QuickTime sdk for import/export.....they have developed their own decoders that can read mov....they may need it for certain Apple codecs though.
As per my previous post....any developer who uses the QuickTime sdk on Windows is trapped in a specifically 32 bit memory space....not great with 4K and up resolutions.

QuickTime is really an old dying product....Apple had to rewrite final cut as it was so dependent on QuickTime, it really couldn't go any further without breaking its dependence.
When editing 75% of my timeline problems/freezes/errors can be traced back to a .mov file.
The only reason it has lasted so long was prores.

wibly wobly
04-16-2016, 12:26 PM
Adobe products don't use the QuickTime sdk for import/export.....they have developed their own decoders that can read mov....they may need it for certain Apple codecs though.
As per my previous post....any developer who uses the QuickTime sdk on Windows is trapped in a specifically 32 bit memory space....not great with 4K and up resolutions.

QuickTime is really an old dying product....Apple had to rewrite final cut as it was so dependent on QuickTime, it really couldn't go any further without breaking its dependence.
When editing 75% of my timeline problems/freezes/errors can be traced back to a .mov file.
The only reason it has lasted so long was prores.

Have they completely ditched it? That's a good thing then. I wasn't aware of that. They've barely supported the player on Windows for a long time. From what I'm told, it's deeply tied into the MacOS so it's probably not going anywhere. In terms of prores, I can imagine a lot of Red, Arri, Blackmagic and various external recorder owners, not to mention people with a decade or so of legacy material aren't too happy. You can't exactly turn things like your prores files into mp4s. I hope Cineform comes out with an update soon. They're saved in a .mov wrapper.

Apparently, according to GoPro you can uninstall the player and the browser plugins and it "might" be ok. You'll still be able to read the files and hopefully write them but the vulnerability won't be there because the player won't be there.

@HenrikSkoglund does that MPC-HC player offer good frame by frame scrubbing? I need something that I can go back and forth frame by frame. The Quicktime player has been great for that and I need an alternative. I haven't found one so far.

gerry_g
04-16-2016, 01:44 PM
VLC is free and has all the current QT codecs http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-windows.en_GB.html ok donation ware, have it on the Mac but this is link to Windows version (supports 10), you are right about QT on the Mac these days it is fully integrated rather than a stand alone program hence I suppose they discontinued it

ivanze
04-17-2016, 01:15 AM
Of course. I tried with the latest 3 QuickTime versions and nothing. Funny thing is that my desktop pc has win 10 x64 too and it works fine.

pinkmouse
04-18-2016, 02:07 AM
Update:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/04/18/uscert_advises_quicktime_deletion/

HenrikSkoglund
04-18-2016, 02:25 AM
thanks for the heads up on that, will check later.
Quick time vr and stereo is what is there for lightwave apart from the standard compressor.

Awesome, gotta uninstall Quicktime then.

- - - Updated - - -


Have they completely ditched it? That's a good thing then. I wasn't aware of that. They've barely supported the player on Windows for a long time. From what I'm told, it's deeply tied into the MacOS so it's probably not going anywhere. In terms of prores, I can imagine a lot of Red, Arri, Blackmagic and various external recorder owners, not to mention people with a decade or so of legacy material aren't too happy. You can't exactly turn things like your prores files into mp4s. I hope Cineform comes out with an update soon. They're saved in a .mov wrapper.

Apparently, according to GoPro you can uninstall the player and the browser plugins and it "might" be ok. You'll still be able to read the files and hopefully write them but the vulnerability won't be there because the player won't be there.

@HenrikSkoglund does that MPC-HC player offer good frame by frame scrubbing? I need something that I can go back and forth frame by frame. The Quicktime player has been great for that and I need an alternative. I haven't found one so far.


There is at least a frame by frame forward stepping button which works nicely.

Ztreem
04-18-2016, 03:54 AM
Awesome, gotta uninstall Quicktime then.

- - - Updated - - -




There is at least a frame by frame forward stepping button which works nicely.

If you use Alt Gr or Ctrl + Arrow keys you can step frame by frame back and forth. :thumbsup:
Edit: seems like in some formats I can use Ctrl+ arrowkeys in other formats I need to use the Alt Gr+ arrowkeys instead?? It's not as smooth as Quicktime to scrub Movie files but it will do.

omichon
04-18-2016, 05:07 AM
Because of Prores, I can't uninstall QT completely so I have uninstalled the player to keep only the minimum QT components, and so far so good.
Neither Resolve or Fusion complains about missing stuff. I just hope removing QT player would reduce the risk exposition.
As a side note, I am used to play movies with VLC or MPC-HC. The later having my preference when it comes to play frame by frame (ctrl+ left or right arrow keys).

dsol
04-18-2016, 08:20 AM
Because of Prores, I can't uninstall QT completely so I have uninstalled the player to keep only the minimum QT components, and so far so good.
This is probably the best solution right now for people who want to use QT with their apps. The security holes with QT on windows are only seriously vulnerable when used in a context where it connects to the web - like in a browser plugin. Of course, most browsers these days don't support plugins anyway!

Ma3rk
04-19-2016, 07:56 AM
To reiterate my earlier comments that Apple really needs to get there feces accumulated:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/adobe-warns-that-uninstalling-vulnerable-quicktime-for-windows-can-break-creative-cloud/

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3058312/security/adobe-on-quicktime-youre-up-the-creek-without-a-paddle.html

prometheus
04-19-2016, 09:33 AM
A bit scary if the security issues will not be fixed, and you know that harmful code in quictime files web pages etc..might open up for hackers to take control over your computer.
so what to do, uninstall quicktime..and screw up a lot of things useful when editing for film etc? remove quictime addons for browsers?

m.d.
04-24-2016, 07:12 AM
Have they completely ditched it? That's a good thing then. I wasn't aware of that. They've barely supported the player on Windows for a long time. From what I'm told, it's deeply tied into the MacOS so it's probably not going anywhere. In terms of prores, I can imagine a lot of Red, Arri, Blackmagic and various external recorder owners, not to mention people with a decade or so of legacy material aren't too happy. You can't exactly turn things like your prores files into mp4s. I hope Cineform comes out with an update soon. They're saved in a .mov wrapper.

Apparently, according to GoPro you can uninstall the player and the browser plugins and it "might" be ok. You'll still be able to read the files and hopefully write them but the vulnerability won't be there because the player won't be there.

@HenrikSkoglund does that MPC-HC player offer good frame by frame scrubbing? I need something that I can go back and forth frame by frame. The Quicktime player has been great for that and I need an alternative. I haven't found one so far.

I got about 5 terabytes of my old Red r3d material on drives....never ever converted it to prores, but ya a lot of people still depend on prores support. Cineform is both .mov and .avi.....at least the version I bought is, the Adobe cineform is only .mov.
Cineform has already been adopted as smpte VC5 so expect it to slowly take over and eventually replace prores.
Until then, there is always DNXHD
https://www.smpte.org/news-events/news-releases/goproŽ-cineform-codec-standardized-smpteŽ-vc-5-standard

vncnt
04-24-2016, 08:17 AM
Did anyone noticed that Fusion8 ditched rendering to AVI?

erikals
04-24-2016, 08:36 AM
Did anyone noticed that Fusion8 ditched rendering to AVI?

hm,
i also wonder how DaVinci Resolve will go about the QuickTime removal...

m.d.
04-24-2016, 10:57 AM
Just to be clear....apps can write their own reader writers for a .mov format without QuickTime.
Plenty of cameras and recorders out there write and read a prores mov on custom ASICS or FPGA with no hint of either Mac OS or Windows present.

As long as any licensing is in place (assumed for prores), apps should be able to read and write via .mov even with QuickTime completely dead.
The easy route programming wise....using a QuickTime component for playback....may be in jeopardy, but as was said before, this was less then ideal with Windows as it trapped you in 32bit memory.

As for fusion, there was always hassle getting high bit depth video into fusion via AVI so I could see why they would disable it.
Fusion uses either VFW (video for Windows) or Directshow playback components for AVI's....not really originally designed with high bit depth video in mind, it is easier to accomplish with the QuickTime component....

It seems the best practice for high end apps is to write your own and not rely on the QuickTime or Directshow or VFW libraries

m.d.
04-24-2016, 11:20 AM
David Newman from cineform has some good insights in his blog....

You can see here the problems with VFW interface
http://cineform.blogspot.com.es/2007/03/when-uncompressed-10-bit-is-not-10-bit.html?m=1

And the problems with QuickTime
http://cineform.blogspot.com.es/2014/02/quicktime-16-bit.html?m=1

Cineform initially wrote its own importers for Adobe products to get around these limitations....now not necessary since Adobe wrote their own.

Fusion is way behind in this regard only using QuickTime, Directshow, and VFW....Fusion was really only designed around DPX TIFF and exr....which was reasonable for high end compositors, back in the day.....now high quality high bit depth video is here to stay and fusion better adjust to accommodate that reality (although their RED importer is one of the best)

vncnt
04-25-2016, 07:04 AM
Although Fusion8 cannot save to AVI, it's capable of loading AVI. Didn't test for limitations.

Both SynthEyes and Layout seem to rely on Quicktime.

Layout cannot handle MP4 from Sony EX1: a MP4 container that has one MP2 video stream and a 2 channel PCM audio stream.
VLC Media Player can playback EX1 files.

m.d.
04-25-2016, 07:52 AM
Although Fusion8 cannot save to AVI, it's capable of loading AVI. Didn't test for limitations.

Both SynthEyes and Layout seem to rely on Quicktime.

Layout cannot handle MP4 from Sony EX1: a MP4 container that has one MP2 video stream and a 2 channel PCM audio stream.
VLC Media Player can playback EX1 files.

Sony regularly violates the MP4 container standard with PCM audio.....
Davinci won't support MP4 with PCM audio either, PPro and others will though....the solution is usually to re-wrap as a .mov, not re-encode but just re-wrap as .mov has wider official support for various audio types.

Although there is a fair bit of PCM audio embedded in various .mp4 (especially Sony products) it technically is not supported in .mp4 container

Any of your h264 material as an mov can be re-wrapped as an .mp4 losslessly with no re compression for import into apps without having to resort to QuickTime. The same goes for virtually all codecs with the exception of prores.

ivanze
05-06-2016, 02:56 PM
Well, I've been having a problem in my laptop with Windows 10, Lightwave 2015.3 64 bit. It says that Quicktime is not installed and doensn't import any .mov files.

I think I found the fix to the problem. I updated Itunes to the latest version and it fixed the problem with Lightwave and other program that was having issues with Quicktime.