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Snosrap
04-08-2016, 09:16 AM
Link here: https://modo.thefoundry.co.uk/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=community.thefoundry.co.uk&utm_campaign=modo-10-launch-day

Looks like a game centric release, but with 2 more future releases planned for the 10 series each with their own focus. For example on the direct connect they showed some non-destructive modelling that is planned for the 10 release cycle that look great for motion graphics users.

GandB
04-08-2016, 09:29 AM
Yes; glad to see Modo and Team sees the value in game development.

Schwyhart
04-08-2016, 11:45 AM
Have they said what the other two focus areas are?

MichaelT
04-08-2016, 11:48 AM
Happy to see it released.. But I look at it later when all the release bugs have surfaced. I'd be much happier if LW took game creation more seriously though.

Schwyhart
04-08-2016, 11:50 AM
I have a strong feeling that this is a stepping stone to making MODO subscription based.
I used to be against subscription based, but I've started to see the potential in it. I have one software that allows you to buy as many months as you want upfront. You get every update during that period, even if the monthly price goes up. So, of course I bought about 3 years worth..it was only like $15 a month. But now it costs $20 a month.

MichaelT
04-08-2016, 12:03 PM
Well, although I approve of subscription.. I don't however approve of banning people from buying a perpetual license. Like it is with Photoshop. It's not expensive to subscribe.. but that is hardly the point. I know I speak only for myself.. but when I buy things, I buy to keep. I only 'subscribe' to services like web servers and such. These are tools after all, like a hammer. You don't subscribe to a hammer. But that is my own opinion of course, I know many don't agree. Yes, but what do you do when the subscription fee is so high, you no longer can afford it? Now you can't get a perpetual license either for the tool you obviously like.

hrgiger
04-08-2016, 12:20 PM
Have they said what the other two focus areas are?

No not yet but if you have access to their direct connect forums, they've given a peek at something that is coming for 10.1 and 10.2 and its significant.

spherical
04-08-2016, 12:49 PM
Thing is, I upgraded when 9 came out. Waited for a while to let the inevitable bug-fix patch arrive, but then heard the plethora of ongoing reports of how buggy it was/is and that there never was much of a resolution on that at all throughout the cycle. Seeing as how it's that much trouble to use, even after the patch, I just never got around to even installing it. Now, I have to pony up another $500 to hopefully get a version that works like it's supposed to. It'd be a bit different if all of the buggy reports had come to a sudden grinding halt and everyone was happy with it. That never happened that I know of. Unsure if it's "fool me twice".

allabulle
04-08-2016, 01:10 PM
No not yet but if you have access to their direct connect forums, they've given a peek at something that is coming for 10.1 and 10.2 and its significant.

And where would that be? I'd like to see those sneak peeks.

Edit: Oh, I see. I think, because I didn't verify this at all, that it's a means to communicate with (some?) licensed users about their thingies. Fair enough. I can wait.

I'm not sold on Modo. I tried it (with the help and follow-ups of an excellent customer service, by the way (like LW3DG's and NewTek's in my experience)) on Linux and Windows but it was quite unstable on several machines and I didn't quite like the overall experience after a month of trying (crashes aside, I mean.) Maybe next time. It could be a nice companion to LightWave, as many others swear by it.

Anyway, sorry for wasting everybody's time. :)

Snosrap
04-08-2016, 01:54 PM
Thing is, I upgraded when 9 came out. Waited for a while to let the inevitable bug-fix patch arrive, but then heard the plethora of ongoing reports of how buggy it was/is and that there never was much of a resolution on that at all throughout the cycle. Seeing as how it's that much trouble to use, even after the patch, I just never got around to even installing it. Now, I have to pony up another $500 to hopefully get a version that works like it's supposed to. It'd be a bit different if all of the buggy reports had come to a sudden grinding halt and everyone was happy with it. That never happened that I know of. Unsure if it's "fool me twice".

I've been a Modo user since v103 and up through 601 until I finally gave up on it. At 103 I thought the world of it, but as soon as rendering came along I began to lose interest. I kept upgrading because I thought I'd put it to more use, but each subsequent release brought about more crashes and bugs. Also I was never able to get my head around the shader tree but I think that was more to do with the numerous bugs that came with it as it seemed to work very sporadically. With LW's great releases recently and the combination of a layer based and node based shading system that just works, I don't have a need for Modo. Even Modeler with all it's quirks and issues is more productive for me. I do think there is a lot for Newtek to learn from Modo as there are some nice features and workflows in it so I like to keep my eye on it, but I doubt they will ever get my money again. The new LW Next is more exciting to me at this point. :)

spherical
04-08-2016, 02:33 PM
I've been a Modo user since v103 and up through 601 until I finally gave up on it. <snip> The new LW Next is more exciting to me at this point.

It seems that this is about where I am. The few features of LightWave Next that we have seen up to this point are very well taken. If Modo had a better upgrade for current users of 9, mostly due to the crappy code that is in it, I'd think better of sending more $$$ their way. It does have some things that are a complement to LightWave and other tools in our pipeline. But, they're not much good if it isn't reliable. And if 10 is down the same bug infested path, I'll really be pissed. The whole thing just leaves a bad taste. I could better invest the $500 on another GPU. Or just go out and get rip-roarin' drunk....

hrgiger
04-08-2016, 03:00 PM
Bottom line is if you work in games (or possibly VR but I know little about VR), then is likely worth the upgrade for getting a very direct pipeline into Unity or Unreal. Otherwise, I'd probably wait to see what 10.1 or 10.2 will hold.

raw-m
04-08-2016, 03:35 PM
Never paid much interest in Modo before, but looking through the feature vids, won't go on about it but really impressed! Nice example of integration, UI, drag/drop, effects etc. Stable or not, those overviews are great sales tools.

Sticking with LW.

Wickedpup
04-08-2016, 04:08 PM
SNIP.....but then heard the plethora of ongoing reports of how buggy it was/is and that there never was much of a resolution on that at all throughout the cycle. Seeing as how it's that much trouble to use, even after the patch, I just never got around to even installing it.
So you did not even bother to install based on a lot of hear say? You should know better than believing everything you read on the forums. A couple of months back in another thread some guy claimed to be able to pull of incredible photorealistic renders in LW, by some possibly heretofore undiscovered techniques. Still, to this day no imagery or explanation of these techniques has been shown. True story. So if I were anything like you I would probably live in the disillusion that this was true. Thankfully, I' m not. ;D
Now, if I only could remember the guys name....Oval? Globus? Something like that......Bah! Who cares! :jester:

lightscape
04-08-2016, 04:38 PM
So you did not even bother to install based on a lot of hear say? You should know better than believing everything you read on the forums. A couple of months back in another thread some guy claimed to be able to pull of incredible photorealistic renders in LW, by some possibly heretofore undiscovered techniques. Still, to this day no imagery or explanation of these techniques has been shown. True story. So if I were anything like you I would probably live in the disillusion that this was true. Thankfully, I' m not. ;D
Now, if I only could remember the guys name....Oval? Globus? Something like that......Bah! Who cares! :jester:

Renders looking as good as vray renders??????
If I said something like that at Evermotion I would be called delusional :D

50one
04-08-2016, 05:17 PM
Renders looking as good as vray renders??????
If I said something like that at Evermotion I would be called delusional :D

Yup, still waiting for those renders from that person...

spherical
04-08-2016, 06:02 PM
So you did not even bother to install based on a lot of hear say? You should know better than believing everything you read on the forums. <snip> So if I were anything like you I would probably live in the disillusion that this was true. Thankfully, I' m not.

Yeah, well, there's this little thing called production work that influences the priorities in a very significant way. No delusion, pal. Eyes wide open. If I were a hobbyist or just sit around all day thinking up odd stuff to try and, failing, post about how better it might be done, that would be different. With the severe reports of how frustrating it was, echoed from many separate users over many, many months on widely varied forums, a few not even directly related to 3D, I just decided that that was one mistake of wasted time I wasn't going to make even once. You don't know me and don't get to judge how I invest my time. And, it's "hearsay".

50one
04-09-2016, 04:36 AM
So not even a tiny sneak peak render?

chikega
04-09-2016, 08:02 AM
I've been a Modo user since v103 and up through 601 until I finally gave up on it. ...

That's exactly when I stopped upgrading MODO, at 601. I used the educational versions of 701 and 801 sporadically, mostly for modeling. During that time I bought the MODO Steam edition which has now become MODO Indie, currently at 901. Well-documented symmetry issues continued through all the releases until 901 when it was finally fixed. But there are some workflows that LW Modeler could certainly adopt such as being able to orbit the viewport around a selection.

MODO's UV and Retopology toolsets are stellar. When I try to UV in LW, it feels extremely archaic in comparison ... forget about retopo'ing. It's good to have something like 3dcoat to supplment LW's weaknesses in that area. I use UVLayout as well (great program!). MODO's sculpting and painting have always appeared to be a work in progress. I always run into quirks and performance issues and would much rather use a dedicated sculpting app like ZBrush or 3dcoat.

For just game development, MODO Indie will be current with the 10.X releases. Traditionally the Indie edition has lagged behind. It appears that The Foundry has taken game development seriously and will give a decent alternative to Maya LT. Blender also has a strong presence in game development with numerous books and videos on the topic.

Wickedpup
04-09-2016, 10:31 AM
You don't know me and don't get to judge how I invest my time.
Hey, if you want to be considered being a windbag, then more power to you :thumbsup:

Julez4001
04-09-2016, 07:43 PM
I use 3DCoat for UV-ing and Zbrush for sculpting and retopology (via Z-remesher, not the actual point click tool...arrrghhh!!)

chikega
04-10-2016, 11:39 AM
I use 3DCoat for UV-ing and Zbrush for sculpting and retopology (via Z-remesher, not the actual point click tool...arrrghhh!!)

Both tools do their jobs so well that I would not expect the LWG to waste their resources trying to add sculpting/texture painting to their tool set. MODO did, and the sculpting and painting ( sluggish, quirky...) just do not compare to dedicated apps,

I bounce around between MODO, UVLayout and 3dcoat for UV'ing depending on the project and my general mood at the time :)


I did some UV'ing in LW recently and it was quite an experience:


1. Divide up model: cut and paste sections of model on different layers
2. Use ABF unwrap on sectioned parts, which doesn't work with symmetry!
3. Cut and paste all sections back to original layer
4. Merge points
5. Use old PLG plugin "Pack UV Chart" to automatically pack sections into UV space with the correct proportions


uhmm .. no ... not again .. there are too many good tools out there to subject myself to that again. :)

gamedesign1
04-10-2016, 06:33 PM
Both tools do their jobs so well that I would not expect the LWG to waste their resources trying to add sculpting/texture painting to their tool set. MODO did, and the sculpting and painting ( sluggish, quirky...) just do not compare to dedicated apps,

I bounce around between MODO, UVLayout and 3dcoat for UV'ing depending on the project and my general mood at the time :tr)


I did some UV'ing in LW recently and it was quite an experience:


1. Divide up model: cut and paste sections of model on different layers
2. Use ABF unwrap on sectioned parts, which doesn't work with symmetry!
3. Cut and paste all sections back to original layer
4. Merge points
5. Use old PLG plugin "Pack UV Chart" to automatically pack sections into UV space with the correct proportions


uhmm .. no ... not again .. there are too many good tools out there to subject myself to that again. :)

I would really like to know if the UV tools are being worked on for the next version of LW. I haven't seen any mention of it though.

prometheus
04-10-2016, 07:03 PM
Both tools do their jobs so well that I would not expect the LWG to waste their resources trying to add sculpting/texture painting to their tool set. MODO did, and the sculpting and painting ( sluggish, quirky...) just do not compare to dedicated apps,
)

Regarding the modo update...not as impressive FOR me this time..always been impressed feature wise with modo releases otherwise..but not particulary this time, cause the focus of game isnīt my game really, I understand it and think it can be a smart move thogh, virtual reality and other realtime stuff is a bit more of interesting though, must take a closer look at it all later though.

Regarding sculpting tools, well ..do not compare it with modo then, compare it with a free software called blender, I really do not see blender sculpting tools as not usefull or sluggish...itīs good enough, maybe not unpar with zbrush and mudbox..but might not need sculptris for doing some things.

As I have said before..they may not and should not work on the sculpting tools in lightwave now..though I really would like it to be there..but eventually I have no doubts what so ever that they will have to implement it, no way around it in time., meanwhile if not implementing it... they will only bite their tales with a result of displeased customers and lower sales and with that present a lower end 3d product..leaving a ruggish sales box that can not perform out of the box tasks as many others can as they do implement the sculpting tools.

Michael

chikega
04-10-2016, 08:51 PM
I wonder too if the LWG will address the UV tools in LW this cycle.

It's interesting that there are different implementations of sculpting in the various apps. I believe the the dynamic tessellation found in Blender and 3dCoat was authored by the same programmer. Sculptris has dynamic tessellation as well. For myself, I find the quad sculpting in ZB to give the nicest or cleanest results. And being able to step down and up in resolution gives a lot of flexibility. Although, there are special cases in which I use volumetric sculpting in 3dCoat. I do not like polypainting or creating UV's in ZB. 3dCoat's Photoshop paradigm with layers and such is much more accessible to me. I haven't had the chance to play with Cinema4d's sculpting implementation, but I hear good things about it. The LWG should probably hire back the programmer who wrote Chronosculpt. He's in the process of writing a sculpting app as we speak. :)

lightscape
04-10-2016, 08:55 PM
So not even a tiny sneak peak render?

More chances of a lw blogpost than getting a sneak peak render :D

50one
04-11-2016, 02:10 AM
I think there's a bigger chance to see Kray 3.0.


However, If I were to discover this super-uber trick that would make my renders look better than anything you've ever seen then you can bet on it I wouldn't be sharing this knowledge with anyone:)
But, it good to know it's possible.

MichaelT
04-11-2016, 08:38 AM
I looked at the new version. My immediate reaction is that is was slower. More menus, and even though it is a single application.. separation. The latter is interesting, but I felt it was jumping around a lot.. and not necessarily in a good way. Surprisingly to myself, I felt Blender is both quicker and easier to use.

MichaelT
04-13-2016, 11:09 AM
I familiarized myself a bit more with the new version, and they really lifted many things from Blender. Just the fact that you now can navigate in the scene using WASD is a real treat. Still find it quite bloated (aside from points I already mentioned) but I have to say.. I am split about this. I also really appreciate that they realized how important dealing with edges are in game creation. I hope LWG are looking, and are taking notes.

hrgiger
04-13-2016, 11:49 AM
Well 10 is just the first of three releases in the 10 cycle. What is being shown right now to be in the next version is quite impressive. I am on the fence right now with upgrading to 10 right away but will definitely upgrade by the time 10.1 hits. I just wish we knew when to expect LW 2016.

Snosrap
04-13-2016, 09:21 PM
Looks like Modo is getting some non-destructive procedural modeling to go along with it's destructive sort. It looks very flexible and animation friendly. NT needs to get going. :)

jwiede
04-21-2016, 05:37 AM
NT needs to get going.

That's the understatement of the decade. Compare, say, modo capabilities from 5-10 years ago against modo capabilities today. Now compare LW capabilities from 5-10 years ago (esp. taking fPrime & HDI into account) against LW capabilities today.

Snosrap
04-21-2016, 06:49 AM
That's the understatement of the decade. Compare, say, modo capabilities from 5-10 years ago against modo capabilities today. Now compare LW capabilities from 5-10 years ago (esp. taking fPrime & HDI into account) against LW capabilities today.

Yep- even counting nothing more than the ordinal release numbers (which really doesn't mean much :)) Modo has almost caught up to LW which has had a 10 plus year head start. :) I do think most of that though is due to Modo's modern architecture and larger dev team and I think as LW improves it's foundation it will advance at a faster rate as well. Or least I hope so.

achilles
04-21-2016, 06:54 AM
NT's sleeping while all other companies are running. When new LW version? The answer is blowing in the wind.....

hrgiger
04-21-2016, 06:58 AM
Modo has almost caught up to LW which has had a 10 plus year head start. :) I do think most of that though is due to Modo's modern architecture and larger dev team and I think as LW improves it's foundation it will advance at a faster rate as well. Or least I hope so.

Well of course. Modo doesn't have to try and restructure its whole codebase to remove past legacy limitations. They also get to benefit from the mistakes they made in the first place. Of course, LightWave still far outperforms Modo in Animation performance and it looks like it is even more significantly improved in LW Next.

I don't really get the idea behind comparing LW and Modo though. I use both for different reasons. I just ask is LW next better then LW 2015 and is Modo 10 better then Modo 901?

mav3rick
04-21-2016, 07:20 AM
Well of course. Modo doesn't have to try and restructure its whole codebase to remove past legacy limitations. They also get to benefit from the mistakes they made in the first place. Of course, LightWave still far outperforms Modo in Animation performance and it looks like it is even more significantly improved in LW Next.

I don't really get the idea behind comparing LW and Modo though. I use both for different reasons. I just ask is LW next better then LW 2015 and is Modo 10 better then Modo 901?

wouldn't it be better if either foundry take on animation and speed improvments or lw3dg takes on modeling and general application refreshment... i mean i cant use modo for full production but i still can use lw for full production but i would really like to have somethin like mix of modo and lw....

MichaelT
04-21-2016, 08:18 AM
I feel Modo is getting bulkier by every release (judging by what I see on google) Making things more flashy doesn't necessarily make it better.. although LW could probably gain some ground by including some zazz. I do think LW does (like stated so many times before) need to be more game creation friendly. Modo even released a material importer for UE4 now. Something that LW also could do. Fix edge controlling.. like control over hard edge shading (shading groups) the WASD moving around in a scene (Like in Blender & Modo (now)) etc.. not many things.. but key ones. Blurring out the rift between the modeler, and tools like UE4. I can do things now.. but I just wish it would be smoother.

jeric_synergy
04-21-2016, 10:48 AM
I was watching a very recent (4/2016) presentation by Ken Nign at the LALWUG showing FBX export, LW>>Unity, and was pleasantly surprised at the easy of simple export to Unity, and by extension to other FBX compliant game systems. Adding Materials support for Unity would be nice too, I have no idea how much overlap the various competitors have. (C'monnnnn, standards!) Games and VR might be huge: the poor VR guys are often using Blender, poor saps. ;)

jeric_synergy
04-21-2016, 10:54 AM
Hey, if you want to be considered being a windbag, then more power to you :thumbsup:
:ohmy::boogiedow:jam::beerchug:

Snosrap
04-21-2016, 12:04 PM
I just ask is LW next better then LW 2015 and is Modo 10 better then Modo 901? Agreed. :) Except I've relegated Modo to the dust bin on my hard drive.

Schwyhart
04-22-2016, 08:56 AM
I like MODO and what it's become. I just have nasty feeling when I think about how it's not independently owned.

hrgiger
04-22-2016, 10:37 AM
I like MODO and what it's become. I just have nasty feeling when I think about how it's not independently owned.

You're not alone. Luxology being acquired/partnering however you want to call it with the foundry means they have more resources at their disposal, but it also means that there are more things to consider then simply your users. Its part of the reason that stability has trended downwards and some features have been half baked as they push to release every year to generate regular revenue stream to appease their parent company and ultimately their shareholders. I'm sure its the reason they no longer offer a discount for early buys of new releases as well. All imo of course.

TheLexx
04-22-2016, 12:02 PM
Its part of the reason that stability has trended downwards......An interesting contrast to Cinema 4D, where Maxon recently stated (http://www.maxon.net/en/news/maxon-blog/blog-singleview/article/foundations-for-the-future.html)"All but one of our original core developers are still working on Cinema 4D".

Snosrap
04-22-2016, 05:10 PM
I like MODO and what it's become. I just have nasty feeling when I think about how it's not independently owned.

One thing for sure - the Foundry isn't Autodesk. I wouldn't worry about. They are building a suite of tools for the creative media community and while they are not owned by one individual they certainly are not a big public conglomerate. Autodesk's most profitable market is their engineering wares and if push came to shove the shareholders could care less if they dropped/sold off their DCC products if things got tough. Modo is in good hands and one could say maybe even better than LW with one guy privately owning the whole thing.

jeric_synergy
04-22-2016, 05:28 PM
Modo is in good hands and one could say maybe even better than LW with one guy privately owning the whole thing.
Ummmm, which one is more secure? Modo or LW? :stumped:

Snosrap
04-22-2016, 05:52 PM
Ummmm, which one is more secure? Modo or LW? :stumped:

Both are most likely okay for now. :) Tim Jenison is probably just a few years from retirement age and who knows what will happen if and when that takes place.

realgray
04-22-2016, 08:58 PM
I for one would be interested in seeing more cooperation between LW and Fusion (Newtek and Blackmagic)

Snosrap
04-22-2016, 09:06 PM
I for one would be interested in seeing more cooperation between LW and Fusion (Newtek and Blackmagic)

Don't you think the new render buffer system in LW Next will go a long ways towards making that better?

jwiede
04-25-2016, 05:54 AM
Don't you think the new render buffer system in LW Next will go a long ways towards making that better?

IMO, depends on new render buffer system containing (useful) "preset library" functionality, and usability of its UX.

Put simply, if it works like EXRTrader, it should make things much better. If it works like current LW buffer equivalent(s), few are likely to consider improvement "significant".

jwiede
05-03-2016, 06:18 PM
The Foundry has publicly announced quite a bit of info on what 10.1 will contain, including Vimeo previews (see this thread at TF Forums (http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=3&t=122339)). The last video in Shane's initial post is quite cool, IMO, because it gives a glimpse of how easily the new procedural meshops system can be integrated with other MODO features (MeshFusion, in this case, but rigging was also discussed) to yield some anazingly useful/efficient results.

At the same time, MODO 10.0 has turned out to be a huge quality improvement over 90x, suggesting their process changes, etc. are working, and resulting in much higher-quality release code. A rather impressive demonstration of how quickly integrating modern quality processes and methodology can lead to significant improvement in product quality.

Snosrap
05-03-2016, 07:47 PM
Cool. I hadn't seen that Mesh Fusion one before.

js33
05-03-2016, 08:38 PM
I don't think LW will ever have any modeling tools like Modo has now. But LW is still good for handling lots of data and is solid for animation plus with the new renderer coming should bring up it to par with Modos renderer. So the future looks like modeling in Modo and rendering and animating in either program.

moc
05-04-2016, 01:52 AM
I don't think LW will ever have any modeling tools like Modo has now. .....

Woow!!
It's not just modelling tools,But animation and texture painting.look at the 'projection ink',We can't finish that at only LW.

Lewis
05-04-2016, 02:26 AM
That non destructive modeling looks amazing and it seems to work so well/easy.

How does that new upgrading scheme works now. You pa for 10 and you get 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 (every 3 months smaller set of features) or you pay for every quartal resale smaller price ?

hrgiger
05-04-2016, 02:59 AM
That non destructive modeling looks amazing and it seems to work so well/easy.

How does that new upgrading scheme works now. You pa for 10 and you get 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 (every 3 months smaller set of features) or you pay for every quartal resale smaller price ?

Lewis, there's only going to be a 10, a 10.1 and a 10.2. plus any maintenance updates inbetween. Once price for the 10 series.

Lewis
05-04-2016, 03:16 AM
Lewis, there's only going to be a 10, a 10.1 and a 10.2. plus any maintenance updates inbetween. Once price for the 10 series.

So it's like every 4 months and for 10.0 owners all 10.1 and 10.2 features are free ?

lightscape
05-04-2016, 03:35 AM
That non destructive modeling looks amazing and it seems to work so well/easy.


Its easy. Its like the 3dmax mod stack.
Modo has finally caught up to the big boys. I expect the price to go up in the next releases.

raw-m
05-04-2016, 03:36 AM
That's pretty amazing, sad to say it does make LW look very old fashioned, nice UI, too. Really like that Curve Particle Gen, all editable and animatable, could even give C4d a run for it's money. Feeling a bit deflated....

moc
05-04-2016, 03:55 AM
Its easy. Its like the 3dmax mod stack.
Modo has finally caught up to the big boys. I expect the price to go up in the next releases.

Yep,
'The 3dsmax's mod stack'
Newtek said we 'may' had these kind of ability and also the history stack when we finish some serious native limitation,some years ago.

moc
05-04-2016, 04:04 AM
That's pretty amazing, sad to say it does make LW look very old fashioned, nice UI, too. Really like that Curve Particle Gen, all editable and animatable, could even give C4d a run for it's money. Feeling a bit deflated....

Now, seems the new modo was finally look at it's market share,inculde product engineer,game,vfx,and the motion graphic related.verywell!!

And Lightwave3d,maybe need some real 'Light' force.Or an other 3+3+3 years plan.

hrgiger
05-04-2016, 06:21 AM
Its easy. Its like the 3dmax mod stack.
Modo has finally caught up to the big boys. I expect the price to go up in the next releases.

Well no. Procedural mesh operations are a nice addition but does nothing to address the myriad of other areas Modo cant compete with maya or max on.

lightscape
05-04-2016, 06:28 AM
Well no. Procedural mesh operations are a nice addition but does nothing to address the myriad of other areas Modo cant compete with maya or max on.

I'm only speaking in terms of the procedural and parametric aspects.
I never would have guessed modo would have non destructive workflow, besides MF.
It was always limited to linear modelling like lightwave. Not anymore. And its as easy as 3dmax modstack, big plus for me they took this route.

hrgiger
05-04-2016, 06:57 AM
Well yes but can't say I would agree that a price increase is justified. They already raised the price after adding mesh fusion in 901.

lightscape
05-04-2016, 07:06 AM
But I'm sure TF will increase the price anyway. The stuff added to 901 and 10.1 are huge. Linux support and the move to QT was definitely expensive to develop. Maintaining all three platforms is not cheap.
Up to the users to keep buying or not when the price goes nearer the competition.

MichaelT
05-04-2016, 07:16 AM
TF have been increasing the price literally all the time. I have been thinking of getting it numerous times... then the price is upped.. and I stop to think.. again. Now it is so bloated, and is not as fast as when I tried it (understandably, but still) that I am reaching a point where I have doubts I will ever get it.

hrgiger
05-04-2016, 07:28 AM
But I'm sure TF will increase the price anyway. The stuff added to 901 and 10.1 are huge.

Matter of opinion really. For me I will probably upgrade in the next few months but for others, little consolation to people who have been waiting for solid character animation improvements since it was introduced in 601.

jwiede
05-04-2016, 11:32 AM
Matter of opinion really. For me I will probably upgrade in the next few months but for others, little consolation to people who have been waiting for solid character animation improvements since it was introduced in 601.

CA improvements in 701 included expression support, dynamic parenting, onscreen motion path editing, and the new graph editor. CA improvements in 801 included the spacing chart & inbetween tool, cage & lattice deformers, and onion skinning. Actor/actions/pose feature from 601 received significant improvements in both 701 and 801. CA was a continual focus area throughout the 60x, 70x and 80x cycles.

Frankly, LW's native CA could benefit from some of those MODO 701 & 801 CA improvements as well, esp. onscreen motion path editing. Precise motion path adjustment in Layout can be quite annoying as it is.

jwiede
05-04-2016, 11:39 AM
TF have been increasing the price literally all the time.

Seems pretty fair, considering how the capabilities of the program have increased. OTOH, upgrade costs have remained remarkably static.

hrgiger
05-04-2016, 11:55 AM
Animation performance is so poor in Modo but you dont need me to tell you this, the foundry board is full of requests from people begging the foundry to do something about it. Lightwave layout performance is already so much better and it appears to be significantly improved in lightwave next. Its a shame, they have a nice deformer system in modo but with that performace, its not worth much.
I went through some animation tutorials with modo and a simple box with a few deformers on it was sluggish. Didn't get me excited about animating a character in modo.

bobakabob
05-04-2016, 11:58 AM
I really hope both Modo and LW continue to thrive as they are both economical alternatives to Maya and keep competition healthy. Of course they don't match Maya's power but they have the edge regarding superb renderers (Mental Ray imho doesn't match LW's soon to be outmoded engine in terms of intuitive workflow, speed and results). They're also clearly capable of professional results (edit: certainly LW CA is significantly improved!)

I've often been tempted to invest in Modo, but as a Maya user at work, I'm happy with LW, VPR + the absolutely brilliant RHiggit, 3rd Powers tools and LWCad. Looking forwards to checking out response times in the forthcoming version of LW as this is still an advantage of Maya.

dballesg
05-04-2016, 12:14 PM
CA improvements in 701 included expression support, dynamic parenting, onscreen motion path editing, and the new graph editor. CA improvements in 801 included the spacing chart & inbetween tool, cage & lattice deformers, and onion skinning. Actor/actions/pose feature from 601 received significant improvements in both 701 and 801. CA was a continual focus area throughout the 60x, 70x and 80x cycles.

Hi John,

Curiously you didn't mention any improvements / bug fixes on the IK Solvers, or the Warp Deformer.

Looks like your post has been redacted by B.P. himself. Is pure marketing, nothing else. :devil:

MichaelT
05-04-2016, 01:51 PM
Seems pretty fair, considering how the capabilities of the program have increased. OTOH, upgrade costs have remained remarkably static.

True.. but I kind of vented a bit of frustration there :) You know, finally decided to jump on it.. and no... price hike.. again :)

jwiede
05-04-2016, 02:36 PM
Hi John,

Curiously you didn't mention any improvements / bug fixes on the IK Solvers, or the Warp Deformer.

Looks like your post has been redacted by B.P. himself. Is pure marketing, nothing else. :devil:

Actually, I mentioned the things I could recall trying and considered "useful" at that time. There were other animation improvements for both 701 & 801, but I either hadn't tried them, or didn't find them that useful.

- - - Updated - - -


True.. but I kind of vented a bit of frustration there :) You know, finally decided to jump on it.. and no... price hike.. again :)

Understood. The point I was trying to make was that waiting further to buy-in isn't likely to improve your situation compared to upgrading a seat.

lightscape
05-04-2016, 07:51 PM
Matter of opinion really. For me I will probably upgrade in the next few months but for others, little consolation to people who have been waiting for solid character animation improvements since it was introduced in 601.

Throw more money into it. :D
When modo reaches $5000 in a few years it will probably be on par with maya ca.
Right now its on par with vanilla lightwave ca.

hrgiger
05-05-2016, 05:14 AM
Throw more money into it. :D
When modo reaches $5000 in a few years it will probably be on par with maya ca.
Right now its on par with vanilla lightwave ca.

Lol, $5,000. Houdini Fx isn't even that much. And sorry but maya has no fear from modo anytime soon.

lightscape
05-05-2016, 06:11 AM
Lol, $5,000. Houdini Fx isn't even that much. And sorry but maya has no fear from modo anytime soon.

Well if you're expecting maya ca toolset then expect to pay AD prices.
You get what you pay for. Pay low like lw/modo prices then you get lw/modo toolset.
Right now modo has an edge over lw so the price is about right.
I have no doubt they will increase in the future.

hrgiger
05-05-2016, 07:42 AM
Well if you're expecting maya ca toolset then expect to pay AD prices.
You get what you pay for. Pay low like lw/modo prices then you get lw/modo toolset.
Right now modo has an edge over lw so the price is about right.
I have no doubt they will increase in the future.

Who said I'm expecting Maya CA from Modo? You seem to be suggesting that them simply putting procedural mesh operations in Modo, that is somehow putting Modo in the same league as Maya or Max.

Besides, I'm not sure where you're even coming up with a $5,000 price anyway. You can no longer buy a perpetual license of Max or Maya and it only costs $1,500 for Maya rental for a year so if anything, Modo would be ridiculously overpriced at $5,000 even for Autodesk standards.

MichaelT
05-05-2016, 08:33 AM
Modo is already overpriced... it certainly cannot measure up to Maya.

lightscape
05-06-2016, 08:16 PM
Who said I'm expecting Maya CA from Modo? You seem to be suggesting that them simply putting procedural mesh operations in Modo, that is somehow putting Modo in the same league as Maya or Max.

Besides, I'm not sure where you're even coming up with a $5,000 price anyway. You can no longer buy a perpetual license of Max or Maya and it only costs $1,500 for Maya rental for a year so if anything, Modo would be ridiculously overpriced at $5,000 even for Autodesk standards.

Because you keep mentioning CA is subpar with modo. Subpar to maya yes. But its equal to lightwave. So they are both subpar.

I don't think you realize the significance of the stack added to modo.
This is not a simple deformer stack. Its accessible via the schematic. This is deep architecture work.

5000 is a placeholder since modo doesn't have a monthly rental. The only possible comparison is with the old price ranges of perpetual licenses. Thought that was obvious.
And if modo DID have maya ca and performance plus its current toolset sculpting, painting, non destructive workflow, I think the price should be in the same range as AD products because it simply offers a complete package. You didn't get that comparison, too?