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lightscape
03-29-2016, 08:58 AM
http://steamspy.com/search.php?s=modo
http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133164&d=1459262468
That probably only counts the people on subs, $45k per month for atleast 3k users. The others bought perpetual like me so the number could actually be more.
Is NT missing out?

http://steamspy.com/search.php?s=blender
Blender has a whopping 600000 users.
Less than 6% are active of that 600000. Lol

MichaelT
03-29-2016, 01:53 PM
I don't think you can compare what essentially is a capped & limited lite product to a full size one, used by Movie/TV industry.
Blender is a more interesting prospect in that case, since that too is used by Movie/TV industry. I think there are plenty of good ideas in Blender, that could be incorporated into LW.

hrgiger
03-29-2016, 03:18 PM
well they're probably not making 45k a month in any event. If you buy a longer subscription up front, you can get it down to 9.99 a month instead of 14.99. Also, Modo indie 901 has a permanent license option. But given that there's probably not a ton of work in stripping down the full version of Modo, I'm sure its worth their time to offer it.

Of course NT is missing out on an indie version but until they put some work into their modeling toolset, specifically tailored to the needs of game artists, I don't see it being very competitive with what Modo indie offers especially since there is no texture painting, sculpting, or again, tools targeted toward game artists.

lightscape
03-29-2016, 06:42 PM
well they're probably not making 45k a month in any event.

It could be even more. There's 4000 active users for 801 and 2000 active users for 901. If you're on subs you probably only have access to either 801 or 901. So those could be 6000 unique users.
Plus the people who bought the perpetual for 801 and 901. I bought into Modo SE and upgraded to 801, 901. I don't know if those are counted in that data but there are many people on perpetual licenses, too.

Ernest
03-30-2016, 11:13 PM
I'm not sure how that works because I clicked on your link and it says Owners: 755 ± 852 for modo indie and 486 ± 548 for indie 901. I don't think the number can vary that much in a couple of days but the site plays with massive margins of error otherwise, or I just don't know how to read the data. So, if that was 1241 owners paying between 10 and 15, minus Steam's 30% cut, it could be around $11,000.

Still, it's a nice extra for very little investment and has a lot more active users in either version than Maya LT. I had really hoped that LW would get into Steam way back when they started accepting non-game software.

lightscape
03-31-2016, 10:21 AM
Yep looks like there's a big drop in active users this week.
Agree its still quite good and some steam users have bought the full version after learning modo. So its like a cheap edu version.

jwiede
03-31-2016, 12:38 PM
But what are folks expecting LW3DG to sell via Steam? LW, in current state? Or something else?

lightscape
03-31-2016, 11:40 PM
But what are folks expecting LW3DG to sell via Steam? LW, in current state? Or something else?

Lightwave with limited export and render resolution at a much lower price would be good.
For game models lightwave is good enough.

Ernest
04-01-2016, 02:44 AM
Lightwave with limited export and render resolution at a much lower price would be good.
For game models lightwave is good enough.

I don't see why it would have to be anything less than the full product without limitations. Price matching mayaLT at $30/month, they'd get more than the full current selling price of LW in less than 2 years.

jwiede
04-01-2016, 04:55 AM
I don't see why it would have to be anything less than the full product without limitations. Price matching mayaLT at $30/month, they'd get more than the full current selling price of LW in less than 2 years.

Are you seriously proposing that for game dev work, LW offers customers similar value as Maya LT (http://www.autodesk.com/products/maya-lt/features/all)?

lightscape
04-01-2016, 05:03 AM
I don't see why it would have to be anything less than the full product without limitations. Price matching mayaLT at $30/month, they'd get more than the full current selling price of LW in less than 2 years.

I wouldn't put lw indie at 30 bucks a month. Maybe 10-15 same as modo indie.
And all they do is limit the export to 100k polys and render output to hd.

MichaelT
04-04-2016, 08:59 AM
I said it before.. but here it goes.. I honestly think LW should be available (in full) on Steam. The feedback there on what would be needed for game development, etc.. would be much more rapid there.. than here. Lots of noise too of course, but the feedback would still be richer. Aside from the application reaching more hands too.

gerry_g
04-04-2016, 09:56 AM
But Modo already has a solid UV toolset, sculpting and painting, retopo and baking high to low right out of the box, anyone considering Lightwave on the other hand would still need to make make secondary purchases just to have equivalent and thats before we move on to the implications of Modo 10 and its beefed up support for game engines, I think if LWG wants to sell more product they have got to make a greater commitment to their existing product first

hrgiger
04-04-2016, 10:21 AM
I could see putting modeler and layout with some limitations on steam for people who are looking to get into 3D graphics in general, but I wouldnt market it as a tool for game artists as its missing a lot of functionality in that regard. But it could expose LW to more people via Steam and they could provide an upgrade path to the full version of LightWave.

MichaelT
04-04-2016, 12:12 PM
I would not say it is missing a lot of functionality, most things are there already (But I would love to see Substance integrated) But I think LW does rely on community plugins a bit too much. Speaking of.. good plugins could be sold as DLC's there too. Either way though, by making it more readily available to a larger audience. I don't see how the added funds (even if they earn less via Steam due to Valves cut) would be anything other than beneficial. In the end, it is money they would otherwise never see. Funds that can help added efforts in the development of LW. But that is just my opinion. Aside (like I just mentioned) it would reach more users. But the full version.. not any special version. It would just split the product, and steal resources better needed in the full product. It would also be the only fully commercial 3D toolkit there.

lightscape
04-04-2016, 10:39 PM
But Modo already has a solid UV toolset, sculpting and painting, retopo and baking high to low right out of the box, anyone considering Lightwave on the other hand would still need to make make secondary purchases just to have equivalent and thats before we move on to the implications of Modo 10 and its beefed up support for game engines, I think if LWG wants to sell more product they have got to make a greater commitment to their existing product first

UV and retopo is great but sculpting and painting still some more improvement. Baking for game models is not perfect and its been a known issue. People still using xnormals for baking.

Ernest
04-05-2016, 06:23 AM
Are you seriously proposing that for game dev work, LW offers customers similar value as Maya LT?

Of course not, but for pre-rendered cinematics, indie movies, or VFX LW is vastly superior. Steam offers lots of software that is for making movies, not games, like Vegas Pro.

chikega
04-06-2016, 11:50 AM
MODO 10 is even now more geared for the gaming industry. The Indie version is supposedly going to be on the same point release schedule as the full version.


https://vimeo.com/159197577

https://modo.thefoundry.co.uk/?elqTrackId=5a8ec8547d9048a7b528996262be4218&elq=d2d6888658a348a6b5fbf70925d95e02&elqaid=1974&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=1562

lightscape
04-06-2016, 08:11 PM
I'm 100% positive the steam version led to this v10 release which is a gaming focused release.

They must have learned how much potential there is in the gaming market by selling modo through steam. :D

They improved the smoothing tool :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1KgUrMXEes&feature=youtu.be

http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=3&t=121498

OlaHaldor
04-07-2016, 01:01 AM
I got on the Modo train last summer, and I'm really enjoying it. Unfortunately, it's left LW for only a couple of tasks, such as TFD, Octane render and architecture stuff with LWCAD.
I'd hate for LW to lack behind, but honestly, I've barely touched LW after I got Modo.

I happen to studying game dev this year, and I'm pleased to see they have added game related tools specifically. But I don't think it'd be worth the upgrade for everyone. I'm happy to be covered by the maintenance so I get the latest version as long as my maintenance license is valid. If I didn't have that, I'm not sure I'd upgrade for just those extra tools though.

chikega
04-07-2016, 08:14 AM
I had the original Steam version of MODO which was a bit of rough start. They learned their lesson with that version and came out with MODO Indie version which was better but not quite adequate for hardcore game developers. V10 appears to have addressed most of the complaints on the Steam forum especially concerning creating normal maps.

MichaelT
04-08-2016, 03:20 AM
I don't trust anything regarding the steam version until I actually see it. Normal maps is the least of my concerns regarding that application :/

wyattharris
04-08-2016, 12:06 PM
I tried the original Steam version too and it was not worth the money. Barely even did what it was touted for, DOTA models, so I haven't touched it since.
LW and ZB, I haven't needed anything else.

lightscape
04-08-2016, 04:35 PM
I had the original Steam version of MODO which was a bit of rough start. They learned their lesson with that version and came out with MODO Indie version which was better but not quite adequate for hardcore game developers. V10 appears to have addressed most of the complaints on the Steam forum especially concerning creating normal maps.

Same here. Bought modo steam which was severely limited. Then after realizing their mistake they released 801 indie for free to steam users. That release was great. It was as good as the real modo.
901 indie came along and with it meshfusion. It was a no brainer to upgrade.
Modo 10 indie is again a no brainer upgrade. Its got serious features for game devs.
We don't even have native smoothing groups in lw.

chikega
04-09-2016, 08:20 AM
I'd have to agree with some of the others here. LW is definitely NOT ready to put their application up on Steam for game development. The reviews will kill it before it can even get off the ground and it's reputation will be sealed.

lightscape
04-09-2016, 09:37 PM
I'd have to agree with some of the others here. LW is definitely NOT ready to put their application up on Steam for game development. The reviews will kill it before it can even get off the ground and it's reputation will be sealed.

It doesn't need to be for game dev.
3dcoat and Silo are on steam, too.

chikega
04-09-2016, 11:02 PM
It doesn't need to be for game dev.
3dcoat and Silo are on steam, too.

There's also Substance Designer/Painter, Sony Movie Studio, etc... but their cost of entry is relatively low compared to the full-featured commercial 3d packages, Raysupreme being the exception at $39.99. 3dcoat offers a stripped down version on Steam with an upgrade fee. All the more complete commercial 3d packages are subscription based. MODO Indie offers both a perpetual license and subscription. I guess the LWG could angle Lightwave3d for TV/Film production ... maybe? :)

lightscape
04-25-2016, 08:19 PM
I just got my FREE upgrade to Modo 10 indie. :thumbsup:
All those gaming tools now available.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/401090/discussions/0/364039785165084859/

If you already own a perpetual license of MODO indie 901 or are on subscription… guess what? You get MODO indie 10.0 for free!

That’s right, FREE. Come one now, we just released indie 901 like last September. We couldn’t just charge you for a new version that close… that would be mean and crazy. We’re not mean… maybe a little crazy, but we care about our awesome community.

MichaelT
04-25-2016, 11:56 PM
@lightscape: we? :) I know it is a quote from the page. But without actually saying it is a quote, it can easily be interpreted as something else. :)

erikals
04-26-2016, 01:31 AM
interesting.

wonder, what's better about modeling in Modo vs LightWave ?

+ what are your favorite modeling features in Modo ?

to me Mesh Fusion looks neat, but even if included in Indie it's quite limited stopping at 100,000 polys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOwNJqvTxiU

gerry_g
04-26-2016, 03:11 AM
I use the full version not the steam one (hate steam) mesh fusion is fairly slow over complicated and way from perfect but that doesn't mean its not handy even though I hardly ever touch it, fancy tools rarely blow me away but numeric input thats different, a system that doesn't constantly reset itself and allows for steady tweaking of a parameter and works on uv's too thats worth its weight in gold, if Lightwave worked like that it would be really usable rather than nearly usable, it has a layer system that can be rearranged at will (though it doesn't stick), colour coded, separated into sub folders and groups, uv maps that can be renamed at will by nothing more than typing in a new name or copy pasted with simple ease, in other words a modern uv mapping tool set as opposed next to no uv mapping tool set and so on. All that said I still use LW, but then again I probably would't if I didn't have the other

erikals
04-26-2016, 03:33 AM
very true.

i'm just incredibly curious to how LWG will go about this.

lightscape
04-26-2016, 04:40 AM
interesting.

wonder, what's better about modeling in Modo vs LightWave ?

+ what are your favorite modeling features in Modo ?

to me Mesh Fusion looks neat, but even if included in Indie it's quite limited stopping at 100,000 polys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOwNJqvTxiU


Meshfusion, ability to sculpt, painting toolset are not better but totally missing in lw. Other than that modeller and modo modelling is generic using custom kbs for both.
I haven't touched zbrush for a while because the sculpting is pretty good in modo now. Painting toolset is getting there.

Just export parts of a model to go around the 100k limitation. 100k is enough if your modelling methods are not old school.

hrgiger
04-26-2016, 07:45 AM
wonder, what's better about modeling in Modo vs LightWave ?

+ what are your favorite modeling features in Modo ?



I mean where would you even begin in answering such a question? Modeling in modo is pretty much better in almost every regard with a few notable exceptions (spline patching in modo is awkward and lwcad still holds some advantages). But with modos range of falloffs and action centers, fully implemented edges, working pixar subD's, modern uv toolset, and their soon to be released procedural mesh ops, modo is a far more advanced modeler. Mesh fusion is cool but will be better when the improvements currently in development come out. Personally I dont use modo sculpting tools, zbrush is the bomb.