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robpowers3d
03-25-2016, 03:33 PM
We have a new blog post on Upcoming Performance in The Next LightWave Release.

https://blog.lightwave3d.com/2016/03/upcoming-lightwave-performances/

Discuss the Blog Post on Upcoming Performance in The Next LightWave Release here.

hrgiger
03-25-2016, 03:36 PM
Very nice. Any chance we could see some percentages or differneces in FPS we're seeing in a typical scene?

allabulle
03-25-2016, 03:44 PM
Nice. I could use some of that increased performance right now. :)

It's good to see some progress on that area.

js33
03-25-2016, 04:16 PM
Looks like some nice performance improvements.

Nicolas Jordan
03-25-2016, 04:20 PM
Looks much better than before! :thumbsup:

50one
03-25-2016, 04:22 PM
Looking good! Thanks.

Finally;)

Tobian
03-25-2016, 04:25 PM
Looking excellent, that selection boost also looks like it will be a huge time saver for complex scenes!

kadri
03-25-2016, 04:37 PM
I have a scene with big files where just selecting them is really "Slow". This new version looks like a nice improvement.

Snosrap
03-25-2016, 04:38 PM
Not earth shattering but definitely the right direction. I was working with Chronosculpt earlier today and was blown away with how it handled my 1.1 million poly mesh, so if LW Next is using an improved version of CS's mesh system it should rock!

robpowers3d
03-25-2016, 05:14 PM
Not earth shattering but definitely the right direction. I was working with Chronosculpt earlier today and was blown away with how it handled my 1.1 million poly mesh, so if LW Next is using an improved version of CS's mesh system it should rock!

Very glad to hear that! ChronoSculpt is like my baby and I love it so much. It makes me happy to hear how it working so well for you. We also have a studio that is currently working to implement ChronoSculpt as a key part of their pipeline because of the unique workflow that it provides for editing dynamics simulations and editing cached mesh deformations over time with large data sets. It is a very useful tool for that type of workflow. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

mummyman
03-25-2016, 05:23 PM
Thanks for the blog post! The speed increases will help my heavy-filled scenes. Looking forward to it. And, yes... ChronoSculpt rocks. Saved my butt on my past couple of projects.

Ztreem
03-25-2016, 05:25 PM
As I often work with very large objects, only this week I had a scene with 3 objects @ 21 million polys. I can say that I've mostly waiting for the computer this week, everything from load/save and select, move takes forever. I really looking forward to this new faster geometry engine. Looks great!

rcallicotte
03-25-2016, 05:27 PM
Great news and to the point. I appreciate it.

DrStrik9
03-25-2016, 05:43 PM
I could use some of that increased performance right now. :)

I don't think there is ever a time when we couldn't use increased performance. :D

An informal visual comparison on Lino's walk cycle animation looks like somewhere around 50% speed improvement.

Snosrap
03-25-2016, 06:10 PM
Very glad to hear that! ChronoSculpt is like my baby and I love it so much. It makes me happy to hear how it working so well for you. We also have a studio that is currently working to implement ChronoSculpt as a key part of their pipeline because of the unique workflow that it provides for editing dynamics simulations and editing cached mesh deformations over time with large data sets. It is a very useful tool for that type of workflow. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

And included in LW - very smart move and much appreciated.

rdolishny
03-25-2016, 06:50 PM
Might not want to show the 3D community it takes 18 seconds to select an object.

I see the new version is pretty much instant, but that part of the demo revealed the wrong message, I think.

Everything else was very nice, good improvement!

Snosrap
03-25-2016, 06:57 PM
Might not want to show the 3D community it takes 18 seconds to select an object.

I see the new version is pretty much instant, but that part of the demo revealed the wrong message, I think.

Everything else was very nice, good improvement!

Yeah but that is not necessarily typical usage. I for have been using LW professionally for over 15 years and have never run into that situation. It's all subject to scene size and in this case they are showing a massive improvement in that area and something the 3D community will care about - especially LW users.

bobakabob
03-25-2016, 07:15 PM
Thanks for the update, Rob. Very inspiring, on top of all the other developments I can't wait to invest in the upgrade. Lightwave can really distinguish itself amidst the vastly overpriced competition.

kfinla
03-25-2016, 07:35 PM
Exciting stuff, and early days. Hopefully they'll squeeze out even more FPS before release. LW muscle sims just around the corner :)

OFF
03-25-2016, 08:46 PM
Some Maya or Max scenes imported via FBX may contain a huge number of objects (null's usually), so this improvement is very very necessary.

adk
03-25-2016, 09:33 PM
Some Maya or Max scenes imported via FBX may contain a huge number of objects (null's usually), so this improvement is very very necessary.

Don't forget about surfaces in this scenario as well LW3DG. Hundreds of surfaces are just as clunky and frustrating to work with as hundreds of objects.

Kaptive
03-25-2016, 09:42 PM
I can't speak for anyone else, but these kinds of improvements really make my day. Over the last couple of editions I've really been pushing my scenes in complexity and had started to run into some of the walls of the older architecture. A speed bump will be extremely welcome as will the scene editor fix.

On a slightly different note, some great work on show there Lino. Your Godzilla guy had some really nice touches... the spreading of the toes, the flopping of the spine fins, the wobble of his leg as he stomps. Great stuff and an excellent example.

VermilionCat
03-25-2016, 09:57 PM
I wish the scene editors would be merged into the whole new kickass editor someday. MDD playback seems impressive though.

realgray
03-25-2016, 10:00 PM
I'm very excited! Great Stuff! Go Performance.

RebelHill
03-25-2016, 10:09 PM
I can't speak for anyone else, but these kinds of improvements really make my day.

I think you're far from alone... there are many of us who've been wanting "better basics" over fancy new features for a good while. It is indeed most gratifying to see them finally making an appearance to cure those ills, as well as, no doubt, laying the groundwork for fancy new features in the future.

bazsa73
03-26-2016, 01:15 AM
I noticed Godzilla in the corner toward the very end.

dballesg
03-26-2016, 03:57 AM
Very nice indeed.

As Hrgiger was asking will be good to see an fps meter on the Layout during playback.

I liked the splitted comparison, but I noticed Lino was playing 2015 and the Beta at the same time on his computer.
That means 2015 was taking precious processing resources.
It will be nice if we can see the Beta playing those scenes by itself, with anything else running except the video capture software. And an F.P.S. meter please.

In the minute 3:14 (umm the pi number), the text says "In the upcoming LightWave release both the New and the Standard Scene Editor are totally". Totally what? ;)

And if possible, can we see a scene with more than ONE character rigged playing at the same time?

So far great work.

Cheers,
David

hrgiger
03-26-2016, 04:28 AM
I liked the splitted comparison, but I noticed Lino was playing 2015 and the Beta at the same time on his computer.
That means 2015 was taking precious processing resources.
It will be nice if we can see the Beta playing those scenes by itself, with anything else running except the video capture software. And an F.P.S. meter please.

In the minute 3:14 (umm the pi number), the text says "In the upcoming LightWave release both the New and the Standard Scene Editor are totally". Totally what? ;)



So far great work.

Cheers,
David

I thought that too about playing both at once but as was pointed out to me, playback is likely only using a single processor so it is doubtful that playing them seperately would make much difference.

nez
03-26-2016, 05:22 AM
Great update! algo did somebody noticed from the blog entry picture, how much alike is that render to same render done with Octane by Lino? encouraging all along this blog post's!

Julez4001
03-26-2016, 06:11 AM
Rob,
Do we get a speed increase in scenes that not stacked with lot of mesh data.
Is there a difference with one character (80,000 polys), a genoma or rhigg it rig, one or two lights) in Lightwave 2015 and Lightwave Next?
Do you only see the speed increase till you get to mesh over 300,000 polys or so?

Julez4001
03-26-2016, 06:17 AM
Very glad to hear that! ChronoSculpt is like my baby and I love it so much. It makes me happy to hear how it working so well for you. We also have a studio that is currently working to implement ChronoSculpt as a key part of their pipeline because of the unique workflow that it provides for editing dynamics simulations and editing cached mesh deformations over time with large data sets. It is a very useful tool for that type of workflow. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Rob
Is there going to be an update to ChronoSculpt or will it be integrated into Lightwave NEXT?
Will there be any audio integration for lip syncing setups?

Norka
03-26-2016, 06:42 AM
Will we be seeing a significant bump in performance when doing millions of instances?

Photogram
03-26-2016, 07:27 AM
The new performances are very welcome!
I like the new open GL shading, now parts of the model like inside the mouth are occluded and not lit as in previous open GL.
I also note the lower memory usage compare to the 2015 version, that's another good thing!
Playback speed is so important and these optimisation are a step in the right direction!
I'm curious to see if the new mesh system will also going to be integrated in the Modeler :)
Bravo! LW3DG

Kaptive
03-26-2016, 07:47 AM
Will we be seeing a significant bump in performance when doing millions of instances?

please please please please :)

It's gotta help with this, it must. LW is pretty good with this anyway (considering how intensive it can get), but it can always be better. Any speed ups are good speed ups.

Thomas Leitner
03-26-2016, 07:51 AM
I thought that too about playing both at once but as was pointed out to me, playback is likely only using a single processor so it is doubtful that playing them seperately would make much difference.

Hi,
I hope the new Unified Mesh System use all processors for deformations...
ciao
Thomas

cove
03-26-2016, 02:56 PM
Thanks Rob for info on speed enhancements and great to see a demo video by Lino
that shows the level of speed increase.

Question to Lino.
What computer system did you have Lightave NEXT running on at the time you produced the video [eg. cpu/graphics card]?.
Also given that the figure is animating in perspective view will upgradng to a better graphics card improve the speed performance
even further as i understand that upgrading your graphics card would normally give you better rotation etc of the scene when you
have a complex scene [triangles/polygon rate per second].
What im not shore about is wether a better graphics card would improve the speed of animations in perspective mode.

Airwaves
03-26-2016, 04:19 PM
I am excited to get my hands on the new Lightwave. Thanks for the sneak peek!

spherical
03-26-2016, 05:11 PM
Speed of viewport draw is enhanced by using a Professional Level CAD card like a Quadro. Consumer cards don't do as well, but a faster card is always better; just not the speed improvement you're hoping for.

tburbage
03-26-2016, 05:57 PM
Very glad to hear that! ChronoSculpt is like my baby and I love it so much. It makes me happy to hear how it working so well for you. We also have a studio that is currently working to implement ChronoSculpt as a key part of their pipeline because of the unique workflow that it provides for editing dynamics simulations and editing cached mesh deformations over time with large data sets. It is a very useful tool for that type of workflow. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Rob, I hope you can tell that story at some point. That would be a good read!

Really looking forward to seeing LW+NEXT. I'm ready for that PBR shading and rendering support.

DrStrik9
03-26-2016, 07:49 PM
Rob, I hope you can tell that story at some point. That would be a good read!

Really looking forward to seeing LW+NEXT. I'm ready for that PBR shading and rendering support.

Agreed on the good read idea! (And the next idea too.) :+) I'd also love to hear the down-low nitty-gritty on the decision to graciously give two super-cool apps to current LW users, ... etc.

I'm ready for the potentially rocky road of Next, when it appears.

I do greatly appreciate the work of the visionaries and coders at LW3DG, and the poor customer service people who process bug-reports and take my angst and always give me peace in return.

Schwyhart
03-26-2016, 08:27 PM
I really hope that polygon (face) selections appear as a solid selection instead of an outline. Please say it's so!
I know I'm probably the only one who cares about that.

Snosrap
03-26-2016, 08:45 PM
I really hope that polygon (face) selections appear as a solid selection instead of an outline. Please say it's so!
I know I'm probably the only one who cares about that. Doubt it. Looks like Layout is getting most the love again.

jwiede
03-27-2016, 12:56 PM
Rob, I have a few questions about the conditions of the comparison:

Was the same machine used for capturing both 2015 and LW.Next usage? What are the machine specs used (incl. drive(s) and interface used for MDD)?


Can you describe how the captures were done? Live screencaptures or via camera? Were they done simultaneously or as separate runs (and why)?


(edit) In the case of the MDD captures, what (if anything) was done to ensure equivalent disk caching, etc. state for both apps?


Why no stopwatch/timecode embedded and shown in captured video? Would have been nice to have reliable basis for quantified comparison.

Thanks!

(edit) hrgiger seems to indicate screencapture of both apps were done simultaneously on same machine? I'm really hoping that wasn't the case, but if so, what precautions were taking w.r.t. CPU affinities, gfx scheduling, etc. to ensure "fair" comparison?

hrgiger
03-27-2016, 01:42 PM
Well you can see the mouse move from one Layout viewport to the next so it seems clear he has both Layout 2015 and Layout beta version running at the same time on the same machine. I guess I just wonder why the video wouldn't be a fair comparison if they are running on the same machine simultaneously?

jwiede
03-27-2016, 02:11 PM
I thought that too about playing both at once but as was pointed out to me, playback is likely only using a single processor so it is doubtful that playing them seperately would make much difference.

Untrue, doing so will result in huge, comparison-invalidating differences depending on how memory and gfx resources are mapped/cached, how much physical memory each has available, etc. Running both simultaneously won't even reliably guarantee all their threads wind up on different CPUs, unless explicit steps are taken ahead of time. Foreground vs background UI state also explicitly impacts scheduling for both CPU and GPU, resource priorities, esp. in comparisons of the type shown (there are some visible indications LW2015 was at a disadvantage in that regard).

The reason why such perf. comparisons are done as discrete, foreground app runs (typically after n "warming" runs) in controlled, clean-setup environments is because that's the only approach which ensures both apps receive the same advantages at the same levels during execution. Without that equalization, such environmental factors drive the margin of error greater than the actual perf. differences measured, totally invalidating the comparison.

- - - Updated - - -


Well you can see the mouse move from one Layout viewport to the next so it seems clear he has both Layout 2015 and Layout beta version running at the same time on the same machine. I guess I just wonder why the video wouldn't be a fair comparison if they are running on the same machine simultaneously?

Foreground vs background scheduling differences alone are typically sufficient to invalidate such comparisons. Even if you equalize that, you also need to balance process/thread affinity mappings, CPU and GPU working set allocations, and resource caching before there's any reason to think relative performance is usefully comparable. It's a huge effort required to level the playing field for simultaneous comparison, and for complex apps generally necessitates virtualization or special drivers.

Ultimately, it's MUCH more efficient and reliable to instead ensure isolated app measurement runs incurring equivalent advantages and disadvantages, which is why that's the approach generally used (unless there's an absolute need for simultaneous comparison, which is extremely rare).

hrgiger
03-27-2016, 03:14 PM
Yes that is probably somewhat True John but are you suggesting that the beta could in actuality be slower then LW 2015 but running them simultaneously has caused LW 2015 to appear slower? I guess I'm just asking if you're proposing that its possible there is no actual speed up and that Lino is just getting lucky in showing such a huge margin of performance difference? Or do you think its possible that testing in a 'clean' state would probably not amount to much significantly different speed discrepancies between versions?

I just tested a scene of an object with 35K polygons subpatched deformed with bones with nodal displacement. With 24FPS set in options, it took me running 4 instances of Layout all running at the same time (the playhead running the animation in each instance of Layout) before it barely crept below the 24FPS. Somehow I have a hard time believing that any difference we would see with Lino's video tested properly in the aforementioned 'clean' state would be significant. But anything is possible I suppose.

allabulle
03-27-2016, 04:00 PM
Also, it's a demonstration of a working beta, to show what's working and the benefits of it, and not the proof of measured increased speed of a final product nor a selling point of a published software. A rough estimate is more than enough in a situation like this one, I think. And it's best observed side by side, even if possibly not entirely accurate. It even might get better before release, who knows.

I think the methodologies to collect and present information to potential buyers of a product and sneak peeks of an ongoing development don't need to agree. A more casual approach is fine here, the information is still relevant and it doesn't take much more time and other resources out of the team.

I liked the videos and I'm glad the blog is getting more content. Hey, I'm even happy that it exists at all. It also sets a nice precedent for subsequent LightWave's versions, like "LightWave Next after the Next." :)

spherical
03-27-2016, 05:00 PM
Before it had been cited, I assumed that the tests were done individually and comped together in post. When it was mentioned, I went back and saw the cursor move from window to window. Huh? It'd be interesting to see this done using the above approach.

hrgiger
03-27-2016, 06:35 PM
Also, it's a demonstration of a working beta, to show what's working and the benefits of it, and not the proof of measured increased speed of a final product nor a selling point of a published software. A rough estimate is more than enough in a situation like this one, I think. And it's best observed side by side, even if possibly not entirely accurate. It even might get better before release, who knows.



Kind of what I was getting at more or less. The blog posts are kind of informal, saying here's what we're working on and it helps to keep people interested. They're not pitches for a sellable product at this point so I guess I figure there will be a time to evaluate the software in more detail when its closer to release or even after its released.

chikega
03-27-2016, 09:45 PM
Looking good:thumbsup:

CaptainMarlowe
03-27-2016, 11:26 PM
Also, it's a demonstration of a working beta, to show what's working and the benefits of it, and not the proof of measured increased speed of a final product nor a selling point of a published software. A rough estimate is more than enough in a situation like this one, I think. And it's best observed side by side, even if possibly not entirely accurate. It even might get better before release, who knows.

I think the methodologies to collect and present information to potential buyers of a product and sneak peeks of an ongoing development don't need to agree. A more casual approach is fine here, the information is still relevant and it doesn't take much more time and other resources out of the team.

I liked the videos and I'm glad the blog is getting more content. Hey, I'm even happy that it exists at all. It also sets a nice precedent for subsequent LightWave's versions, like "LightWave Next after the Next." :)

Great post.

MAUROCOR
03-28-2016, 09:10 AM
Any improvement regarding performance is most welcome. Go ahead, LW3DG!!! ;)

OnlineRender
03-28-2016, 03:00 PM
Any improvement regarding performance is most welcome. Go ahead, LW3DG!!! ;)

for sure , the additions already shown are enough for me to put my money down for LWNEXT...

lightscape
03-29-2016, 03:55 AM
Good work NT! Where is that godzilla model from?
Now we have to wonder if lightwave next can finally have 2 or more rigged characters in a scene with usable fps. No turning off rigs for other characters.
I hope the rig evaluation is also optimized. That's a huge deal.

MAUROCOR
03-29-2016, 05:55 AM
Some important words from Rob Powers:

"Forgive the delay in new blog posts but as we move closer to release it requires some increased focus on development, marketing, sales, and related details but finally we have a new blog post for you."

Again:

"Forgive the delay in new blog posts but as we move closer to release..."

And once more:

"... we move closer to release..."

spherical
03-29-2016, 06:16 AM
Every nanosecond is closer to release. :D

MAUROCOR
03-29-2016, 06:38 AM
every nanosecond is closer to release. :d

:d :d :d :d :d

ianr
03-29-2016, 08:42 AM
Good work NT! Where is that godzilla model from?
Now we have to wonder if lightwave next can finally have 2 or more rigged characters in a scene with usable fps. No turning off rigs for other characters.
I hope the rig evaluation is also optimized. That's a huge deal.

Yes, this is A VERY good resources question, and needed for Soo long.

(Along with fix the bloody audio scrubber for Lip-Sync)

If we get this Speed overhead Up there, so we can finally have 2 rigged characters?
Can we have toggleable Onion-Skin for each of them with this Chronosculpty speed?

Now that will give us some artistic traction & attraction!

Snosrap
03-29-2016, 05:54 PM
Yes, this is A VERY good resources question, and needed for Soo long.

(Along with fix the bloody audio scrubber for Lip-Sync)

If we get this Speed overhead Up there, so we can finally have 2 rigged characters?
Can we have toggleable Onion-Skin for each of them with this Chronosculpty speed?

Now that will give us some artistic traction & attraction!

Keep in mind while the geometry engine is new the "wrapper" is still the same old LW. More work is needed, but this is the right direction.

lardbros
04-01-2016, 06:15 AM
rob, i have a few questions about the conditions of the comparison:

was the same machine used for capturing both 2015 and lw.next usage? What are the machine specs used (incl. Drive(s) and interface used for mdd)?


can you describe how the captures were done? Live screencaptures or via camera? Were they done simultaneously or as separate runs (and why)?


(edit) in the case of the mdd captures, what (if anything) was done to ensure equivalent disk caching, etc. State for both apps?


why no stopwatch/timecode embedded and shown in captured video? Would have been nice to have reliable basis for quantified comparison.

thanks!

(edit) hrgiger seems to indicate screencapture of both apps were done simultaneously on same machine? I'm really hoping that wasn't the case, but if so, what precautions were taking w.r.t. Cpu affinities, gfx scheduling, etc. To ensure "fair" comparison?

lol

raw-m
04-01-2016, 08:05 AM
Currently, if I have an mdd applied to an object and it's dragging down my computer, hiding the object does nothing as LW isn't aware enough to know it's not in use, I have to turn off the mdd completely. Is the new LW a little more savvy as to what's going on and disable mdd playback if hidden?

RebelHill
04-01-2016, 08:24 AM
Id not imagine so... as hiding objects is purely a viewport ogl thing... its not an instruction to disable any deformers/displacements/whatever else... afterall if you have objects that are hidden in VP (for whatever reason) you still want them to show up with all their stuff when you render, etc.

raw-m
04-01-2016, 08:44 AM
Similarly, I was having really sluggish playback on a sub-d object with its SubD level set to Last (which is obvious with an increased level in polys!) even when hidden.

This was the response I had from a nice LW bod. The issue is clearly know about so was wondering if addressed. Of course, is performance is fantastic might not be an issue anymore!


It's not about whether or not something is affecting the geometry of the subdivided object. It is about whether or not something else in the scene is affected by the subdivided geometry.

Currently it isn't possible for LW to determine if some given geometry is needed by something else in the scene. So even though the object is hidden, it has to compute the subdivision.

And no, it can't compute the mesh on-demand. The objects in the scene must be evaluated in a certain order together to give the correct result. A mesh can not be evaluated out of order without it causing breakage.

When the subdivision order is set to First, then at least LW can reuse the existing subdivided mesh. If not set to First, then there is a period during the evaluation of the scene where the object has to appear as being not subdivided. That is when things get slow as the mesh data get swapped out between non-subd and subd.

We're keenly aware that this needs improvement.

---JvdL---

Kevbarnes
04-01-2016, 08:49 AM
Currently, if I have an mdd applied to an object and it's dragging down my computer, hiding the object does nothing as LW isn't aware enough to know it's not in use, I have to turn off the mdd completely. Is the new LW a little more savvy as to what's going on and disable mdd playback if hidden?

Are you using DP Kit 'MDD Cache' or 'MDD Pointer' - this can make a significant difference I have found.

I believe that the 'pointer' is better suited to large mdd files as it Streams the data a frame at a time, the cache hold the file in memory.

Also I found the size of files I were using meant I needed to use 64bit LW

RebelHill
04-01-2016, 08:51 AM
Ofc... toggling off the displacement gives the required speedup, and with all displacements, including subdivs, bones, et al being together in a single stack then, it ought be possible to write a lil script that toggles on/off all applied displacements on a given object (providing the scripting access is there)... so there may yet be possible a handy solution for you.

raw-m
04-01-2016, 08:52 AM
Are you using DP Kit 'MDD Cache' or 'MDD Pointer' - this can make a significant difference I have found.

I believe that the 'pointer' is better suited to large mdd files as it Streams the data a frame at a time, the cache hold the file in memory.

Also I found the size of files I were using meant I needed to use 64bit LW

Cheers kevbarnes. I try to avoid baking wherever possible these days, but that's a great one to bare in mind for the next time :D

raw-m
04-01-2016, 08:55 AM
Ofc... toggling off the displacement gives the required speedup, and with all displacements, including subdivs, bones, et al being together in a single stack then, it ought be possible to write a lil script that toggles on/off all applied displacements on a given object (providing the scripting access is there)... so there may yet be possible a handy solution for you.

That would be great news!

RebelHill
04-01-2016, 12:23 PM
'Ave it...


generic
{
items = Scene().getSelect();
sf = items[1].serverFlags(SERVER_DISPLACEMENT_H,1);
for(i=1;i<=items.size();i++)
{
dh = items[i].server(SERVER_DISPLACEMENT_H);
for(n=1;n<=dh.size();n++)
{
if(!sf)
str = string("EnableServer DisplacementHandler ",n," ",0);
else
str = string("EnableServer DisplacementHandler ",n," ",1);
CommandInput(str);
}
}
}

Works on multiple selected items and toggles all displacement plugins (so those that appear in the list, not nodes, etc) on/off. I presume it'll work the same in 2016, but ofc doing nodes, bones, subdivs, etc too (since they're all listed now), but I guess we'll have to wait n see.

mummyman
04-01-2016, 01:12 PM
How does one use that?

RebelHill
04-01-2016, 01:14 PM
put it in a text file, save it as whatever.ls... add to layout as a plugin, set a button, etc.

raw-m
04-01-2016, 01:52 PM
MASSIVELY appreciated, RH. Thank you! (Will test in the morning).

vncnt
04-01-2016, 02:36 PM
Will it be possible to implement some kind of system that is able to cache mesh deformations automatically in the background, like when a key has been set/removed/changed?

When dealing with multiple characters or with very local deformations Layout could focus on changes instead of evaluating every deformation source.

Would a system like that be beneficial or would it create more problems than it could solve?

mikkelen
04-02-2016, 03:44 AM
How are the performance of IK-chains and bone deformations in this version? In previous versions of LW, the system could come to a halt with just a dozen of separate IK-chains with bones, even with geometry set in bounding box mode.

RebelHill
04-02-2016, 04:01 AM
One would imagine it'll be faster by some measure... but such things arent particularly slow now... see here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqqazvf1FN0&t=05m13s

50+ fps with 5 plain rigs, thats 10 IK chains + other motion control constraints going on. Existing motion control evaluation is perfectly fast enough either for a good few simpler characters to run at the same time, or for a couple of quite complex ones.

bobakabob
04-02-2016, 04:35 AM
Thanks for the script RebelHill, looks very useful!

jwiede
04-02-2016, 11:19 AM
Will it be possible to implement some kind of system that is able to cache mesh deformations automatically in the background, like when a key has been set/removed/changed?

When dealing with multiple characters or with very local deformations Layout could focus on changes instead of evaluating every deformation source.

Would a system like that be beneficial or would it create more problems than it could solve?

That kind of cache+dirty_list_regen approach should be applied in any large dataset editing operation, be it evaluating deformations, editing 3D datasets, or any other "updating dataset/database" analogue. Confining locality of reference is generally among the first major steps in process optimization, along with optimizing data structures for task access patterns needed (f.e. using spatially-organized structures for 3D), those are "Process Perf Optimization 101"-type considerations.

If LW3DG isn't already applying such optimizations for deformation eval, geometry editing, and similar large dataset manipulations to LW (I'd find that a bit surprising), they definitely should do so.

OjN
04-02-2016, 05:30 PM
Great news! Really, I enjoy it.
I hope we can see in the web some of the presentations of next Los Angeles Lw group in April 10 2016.
http://www.lalightwave.com/

mikkelen
04-04-2016, 08:52 AM
Seems like there are a lot of interesting new improvements coming up. It's been a while since last LW release, how long can we expect to wait until these improvements are available to us?

jasonwestmas
04-04-2016, 10:41 AM
Seems like there are a lot of interesting new improvements coming up. It's been a while since last LW release, how long can we expect to wait until these improvements are available to us?

Nobody knows. It hasn't been too long (A year) considering the deep changes that are happening it would seem.

marchermitte
04-06-2016, 08:56 AM
What I see so far on the Lightwave 3d blog, all the videos and new features show that It's going in the RIGHT DIRECTION, making a rock solid, fast, reliable software, where you know you'll get done with any project involving deformers and rigs, hair and sub-D, particles and hard / soft body simulation... far from endless discussions about the UI, the icone's size and color and some "cool new features" gadgets while most of the existing tools don't work properly together and -added to serious stability and speed issues- jeopardize the completion of any full range production. Yes It's cool to get frequent upgrades, we all like new toys to play with. But rushing a new version for commercial reasons isn't going to satisfy anyone.
Now... I can't wait to put my hands on the new release and test It out!!!

hrgiger
04-06-2016, 11:56 AM
But rushing a new version for commercial reasons isn't going to satisfy anyone.



#Modo901

bobakabob
04-06-2016, 12:41 PM
Thankfully, judging from the blog postings the dev team have been careful not to promise the world and appear to be going for quality rather than bells and whistles - a rush release would undermine all the hard work.
Lightwave is presently very stable and has been for some considerable time.

HarverdGrad
04-06-2016, 12:55 PM
#Modo901

#Modo10.01

calilifestyle
04-06-2016, 12:57 PM
#Modo10.01

(another lackluster Modo release, and only $499 US to upgrade- and if you are on an older version than Modo9- it'll cost you the price of a full seat)

No it doesn't I have 601 and i can upgrade it for 499. But i'll wait to see what LW Next will do.

HarverdGrad
04-06-2016, 01:09 PM
No it doesn't I have 601 and i can upgrade it for 499. But i'll wait to see what LW Next will do.

Yeah- I realized (and edited it), after I posted it. But I swear- when I first saw the Modo upgrade page, it had text describing how the price was for those with version 901.
It doesn't read that way now, but I'm fairly certain there was messaging there.

jwiede
04-06-2016, 01:16 PM
Lightwave is presently very stable and has been for some considerable time.

So you do not consider the laundry list of regressions in LW2015 (f.e. in Bullet, among others) as impacting "stability"?

hrgiger
04-06-2016, 05:50 PM
#Modo10.01

Well, that remains to be seen. 901 was the bug release of which bug legends are made of. I will probably upgrade at some point but I'm going to see how the release is received by users probably at least for the first few weeks before I start thinking about it. Their new approach of focused updates is supposed to address at least some of the stability concerns so I'll see how it pans out.

@John- just curious what the laundry list of regressions is, are we just talking about the selection issue mentioned above and something to do with the 32 bit cache for Bullet? (was it more previously? I guess I'm just wondering if that's a regression or stability issue). I'm just curious.

jwiede
04-06-2016, 08:25 PM
@John- just curious what the laundry list of regressions is, are we just talking about the selection issue mentioned above and something to do with the 32 bit cache for Bullet? (was it more previously? I guess I'm just wondering if that's a regression or stability issue). I'm just curious.

There are more flaws in LW2015 Bullet besides the dynacache issue. this post (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?149709-Lightwave-Bullet-Dyamics-quot-Convex-Pieces-quot-is-Broken-in-layout-2015&p=1465356&viewfull=1#post1465356) contains four fairly significant (and obvious/easily-detected) regressions. As Bullet work was a "focal point" of the LW2015 upgrade, Bullet clearly required thorough regression testing, and as clearly did not receive enough.

As for other 2015 regressions, this post (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?150384-Modeler-Not-Remembering-Selected-Layers&p=1471505&viewfull=1#post1471505), this post (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?150432-How-would-you-model-this-in-lightwave-SpiderCage-form&p=1471858&viewfull=1#post1471858) as you mentioned, and this post and the one after (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148299-Transitioning-from-Maya-to-LightWave&p=1449740&viewfull=1#post1449740) also describe notable regressions, and there are still others as well.

Digging for reference citations, I realize I had also forgotten how many users were complaining about random crashes/freezes with 2015(.0) & 2015.1 releases. I was surprised just how many such complaints I could find. I've already provided a bunch of citations, though, so someone else can take the time to gather and cite the 2015/2015.1 crash/freeze complaint posts.

hrgiger
04-06-2016, 08:43 PM
Ah ok I wasn't aware of the differences in Bullet behavior between 11 and 2015, thanks.

Ryhnio
04-07-2016, 12:01 AM
Looks great, I like being able to playback my Millennium Falcon animations at <24 parsecs.

Does the unified mesh system rely more heavily on GPU/CPU combo than previous versions?

erikals
04-07-2016, 01:59 AM
I've already provided a bunch of citations, though, so someone else can take the time to gather and cite the 2015/2015.1 crash/freeze complaint posts.

David Ikeda used to be a heavy bug-crusher from what i recall from his posts.

talking David Ikeda by the way, LWG still needs to find a Modeler developer. Hope they find one soon, as Modeler needs attention.
http://forums.newtek.com/archive/index.php/t-139159

bazsa73
04-07-2016, 06:31 AM
For me LW2015 proved to be very effective and useful. I use it on a daily basis for real life productions and I was able to pull off several shots without any serious freezes and whatnots.

Snosrap
04-07-2016, 06:57 AM
LWG still needs to find a Modeler developer. Hope they find one soon, as Modeler needs attention.

That's been up there for over a year. Either they have hired someone and haven't updated the website or nobody wants to work for them. :) You'd think after a year somebody would be a viable candidate, I can't believe a modeler developer would be such a narrow focus and hard to find.

erikals
04-07-2016, 10:13 AM
can't believe a modeler developer would be such a narrow focus and hard to find
well, actually i don't think there are too many available.

if we take Modeler plugin developers for example, one could count those on one hand...
- 3rdPowers
- LWcad
- TrueArt

(plus some other small ones)

also a Modeler / Layout workflow is more important than ever to create for example Motion Graphics.
how will LWG go about that without making multiple tools in Modeler / Layout ?

you've got no choice though, options are >

- wait for a Modeler update (won't happen soon)
- look elsewhere
- buy 3rdPowers/LWcad plugins etc. (my choice)

Schwyhart
04-07-2016, 11:58 AM
They could be contracting that out until someone comes onboard.

raw-m
04-07-2016, 12:37 PM
also a Modeler / Layout workflow is more important than ever to create for example Motion Graphics.


I think unification is the only way forward here unless you mean modelling within Layout.

jasonwestmas
04-07-2016, 12:55 PM
Yeah actually layout is the one that needs modeling attention. Not modeler ;)

bobakabob
04-08-2016, 01:03 AM
For me LW2015 proved to be very effective and useful. I use it on a daily basis for real life productions and I was able to pull off several shots without any serious freezes and whatnots.

I use LW regularly for Character animation and rendering on W7 Ultimate and LW has been very stable, Modeler included. Glad to say I've not encountered any random or unexpected freezes.
@Jwiede If I did suspect bugs I'd report them as I have before (it turned out to graphics card issue). Of course all software has bugs. LW can be no exception though in my own experience its thankfully reliable. CGTalk has a very illuminating Maya forum, worth a read if you use "the industry standard". For work I've gone back to using 2014.

Kaptive
04-08-2016, 06:44 AM
W7 Ultimate and LW has been very stable, Modeler included. .

Same. I find it weird how some folks have such varied issues... what is the common factor? Is there one? Computers are all so different, but as with you, Windows 7/LW seem to be good together.

DogBoy
04-08-2016, 07:13 AM
what is the common factor? Is there one?
Yes, OSX it seems.

CaptainMarlowe
04-08-2016, 12:10 PM
Nope, I use OS X, and LW2015 has been pretty stable for me in all my projects.

jwiede
04-08-2016, 12:55 PM
ROFL. "If it weren't for their double standards, they'd have no standards at all!"

(edit) And no, most similar-scale commercial software packages (esp., 3D software packages) DO NOT exhibit nearly as many reliably-reproducible, easily-detectable-in-basic-functionality bugs as are seen in Lightwave.

js33
04-08-2016, 04:11 PM
Examples? I've tried Max and Maya and they both seem to crash often and randomly. Of course Modo had its crash problems but lately it seems to be very stable. Lightwave by comparison seems to be the most stable of the bunch for me.

hrgiger
04-08-2016, 06:02 PM
Of course Modo had its crash problems but lately it seems to be very stable.

Yeah they really do a great job over there at The Foundry. After several service of course packs of course.

js33
04-08-2016, 07:01 PM
Yeah at least the Foundry actually releases new versions and service packs pretty often while LW is :sleeping:

hrgiger
04-08-2016, 07:37 PM
Yeah at least the Foundry actually releases new versions and service packs pretty often while LW is :sleeping:

Or people just dont notice. 3 maintenance releases for 2015 since it was released a lite under a year and a half ago. 2 free feature updates during LW 11 so almost a release a year just like Modo. But I guess if more often Is more important then releasing it when its ready, then you definitely want to favor the foundrys approach and we all see how that worked out for the 901 series. But even they have said, they have to release every year to pay their employees so you will definitely get often with them.

Snosrap
04-08-2016, 08:24 PM
But even they have said, they have to release every year to pay their employees so you will definitely get often with them.

Yikes! I believe in people making a living, but I can't afford $495 a year for a personal license. (Probably could actually, but don't want to. :)) And it's really easy asking my boss for three upgrades of LW when they come out because they are so cheap in comparison to all the other software we "subscribe" to. Also $295 for me is doable too.

js33
04-08-2016, 09:10 PM
Or people just dont notice. 3 maintenance releases for 2015 since it was released a lite under a year and a half ago. 2 free feature updates during LW 11 so almost a release a year just like Modo. But I guess if more often Is more important then releasing it when its ready, then you definitely want to favor the foundrys approach and we all see how that worked out for the 901 series. But even they have said, they have to release every year to pay their employees so you will definitely get often with them.

I like the way the Foundry communicates with its user base better than the way the LW3DG communicates. I like both programs but it seems like LW is far behind and from what we know from the blog so far is they are trying to modernize LW which is good but they have a long way to go. We will see what happens.

bobakabob
04-09-2016, 03:48 AM
ROFL. "If it weren't for their double standards, they'd have no standards at all!"

(edit) And no, most similar-scale commercial software packages (esp., 3D software packages) DO NOT exhibit nearly as many reliably-reproducible, easily-detectable-in-basic-functionality bugs as are seen in Lightwave.

Do you use Maya? Check out the CGTalk (not to mention the official) forum as I suggested.

jasonwestmas
04-09-2016, 06:51 AM
Yeah at least the Foundry actually releases new versions and service packs pretty often while LW is :sleeping:

or its a sign that lightwave is much more usable than modo is. ;)

And yes maya is plenty buggy but is much better than it used to be in that regard ime.

kolby
04-27-2016, 01:08 PM
Month is gone, it's time for the release or at least a new blog.

hrgiger
04-27-2016, 01:55 PM
Month is gone, it's time for the release or at least a new blog.

Yeah, Lino said they're too busy getting ready for the release to put out a blog post. So I was kind of hoping to see or hear about the release by now.

allabulle
04-27-2016, 02:23 PM
Well, the closer you get to the final stages, the harder and crazier it gets. Besides coding and making builds that need to be tested, preparing the content for the release and adjusting it to take in consideration the last changes, getting ready materials for the presentations and events, building a cohesive narrative fot it all, taking a nap while waiting for a hard disk replacement... I can imagine much more than that and probably just living it instead of typing what I said could be exhausting. Remember our deadlines? Even when everything went smooth? Friends and family know when you are there: no phone, no e-mails from you...

It will come. But sometimes it is quite demanding, as they told us, like hrgiger said. And can be distracting, making a simple or not so simple blog post. A blog post with no follow-up's can't be that promising. I'd love a new one, sure, but come on, relax a bit. It's coming! :)

Edit: I sincerely hope that I don't sound harsh or condescending. It's not my intention at all.

djwaterman
04-27-2016, 07:11 PM
Well, the closer you get to the final stages, the harder and crazier it gets. Besides coding and making builds that need to be tested, preparing the content for the release and adjusting it to take in consideration the last changes, getting ready materials for the presentations and events, building a cohesive narrative fot it all, taking a nap while waiting for a hard disk replacement... I can imagine much more than that and probably just living it instead of typing what I said could be exhausting. Remember our deadlines? Even when everything went smooth? Friends and family know when you are there: no phone, no e-mails from you...

It will come. But sometimes it is quite demanding, as they told us, like hrgiger said. And can be distracting, making a simple or not so simple blog post. A blog post with no follow-up's can't be that promising. I'd love a new one, sure, but come on, relax a bit. It's coming! :)

Edit: I sincerely hope that I don't sound harsh or condescending. It's not my intention at all.


You guys are right, there is a point in a project when it becomes a major distraction to do things like make blog posts, which themselves require preparation, editing, approval and video examples in LW's case, I shouldn't expect any more preview blogs for now, besides, if you haven't sort of worked out what's in store you haven't been listening.

mikkelen
04-30-2016, 03:20 AM
Looking forward to release! Any firm announcements about upgrade price from LW2015?

erikals
04-30-2016, 05:03 AM
Hi,

Upgrade Price from LW2015 is $295

more info here >
http://www.cgchannel.com/2015/09/newtek-announces-new-lightwave-pricing


LightWave Special Upgrade Price from a Current Version - $295 (USD)
LightWave Regular Upgrade Price from a Non-Current Version - $795 (USD)
LightWave Full License Price - $1195

+tax (for you that's 25% Norwegian tax)

be careful skipping upgrades in the future as that will be $795 + 25%

it wouldn't surprise me though if they run a catch-up-promo at some point

erikals
04-30-2016, 05:51 AM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pnghrgiger
Lino said they're too busy getting ready for the release to put out a blog post. So I was kind of hoping to see or hear about the release by now.
graphics / coding...

...it always takes longer than expected  http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

jasonwestmas
04-30-2016, 08:10 AM
graphics / coding...

...it always takes longer than expected  http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

yes, usually 30% longer if you don't factor that in. :)

erikals
04-30-2016, 08:46 AM
a boss i had who dealt with both graphic designers / coders usually said 300%  http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

and as for the coders, that usually turned out to be true (on completely new coding projects)

lightscape
04-30-2016, 09:47 AM
Looking forward to release! Any firm announcements about upgrade price from LW2015?


Don't they usually release around Siggraph time?
Its still a long way to go. No blog updates yet. They should just put the blog down.

kadri
04-30-2016, 12:18 PM
...They should just put the blog down.

Why?

spherical
04-30-2016, 03:39 PM
Ridiculous. :\

jwiede
05-02-2016, 07:30 PM
Ridiculous. :\

Companies that fail to keep customers interested wind up without any.

lightscape
05-02-2016, 07:58 PM
Why?

It could be a point of focus for non lw fanboys to compare credibility, development, product marketting. Its already a point of ridicule in the TF forums.
If you can't even do a good job of a simple blog, how can you do well on your main product?
So just to avoid getting ridiculed in other forums. It should be taken down.

Snosrap
05-02-2016, 09:03 PM
Its already a point of ridicule in the TF forums.

Really? Where do you see that? I frequent there everyday and have seen no such thing.

50one
05-03-2016, 01:17 AM
I guess time for some wee update Lino!:)

js33
05-03-2016, 01:25 AM
Companies that fail to keep customers interested wind up without any.


Yeah that's what I've been screamin'.

I knocked on the door at the LW3DG.

Answer: :sleeping::sleeping:

erikals
05-03-2016, 01:59 AM
they are simply too busy. LightWave 2016 should be out in not too long.

i just hope Modeler is the next step.

love Modeler, but i've started looking into other additional solutions.

spherical
05-03-2016, 02:12 AM
Companies that fail to keep customers interested wind up without any.

True, but I would say that "putting the blog down" (really bad analogy for animal caring people, BTW!), as postulated by lightscape (not a surprise), is not in a like direction... or do I misunderstand? Perhaps you meant to quote the former and not myself? Perhaps we agree? Color me confused..... (wouldn't be the first time... :D)

Every4thPixel
05-03-2016, 03:08 AM
I don't understand why they don't post shorter post with just a cool render or a screenshot of new UI windows or something. Just to make it look like the blog is alive.

erikals
05-03-2016, 03:19 AM
I don't understand why they don't post shorter post with just a cool render or a screenshot of new UI windows or something. Just to make it look like the blog is alive.
good point, i mean, they must have some beta testers that could post an image or two?

hrgiger
05-03-2016, 03:40 AM
It could be a point of focus for non lw fanboys to compare credibility, development, product marketting. Its already a point of ridicule in the TF forums.
If you can't even do a good job of a simple blog, how can you do well on your main product?
So just to avoid getting ridiculed in other forums. It should be taken down.

Nobody is talking about it on TF forums, the lightwave thread is buried several pages deep by now. And everyone here criticizing lw3dg for not keeping customers interested will be among the first ones here on the day lw next releases to see what is in the new version. So this seems less about keeping customers and more about goading lw3dg for more information.

All that being said, it's been 6 months since we've learned these features are working in Lightwave next. It would be nice to know when to expect a release.

Wickedpup
05-03-2016, 04:08 AM
Nobody is talking about it......
This thread is the exception.

kadri
05-03-2016, 05:17 AM
The way Newtek handles Ligthwave in general is what it is since years.
It is-was talked about so many times here around i think there is not much left to say about.
The blog is one of the steps in the right direction so saying "...They should just put the blog down." is something that sounds really strange.

hrgiger
05-03-2016, 05:20 AM
This thread is the exception.

Is this the foundry forum?

Wickedpup
05-03-2016, 05:24 AM
Nah, you missed the point.Foundry forums or elsewhere, nobody is talking about the blog. Period.

hrgiger
05-03-2016, 06:01 AM
Nah, you missed the point.Foundry forums or elsewhere, nobody is talking about the blog. Period.

Well then it's not really targeted at anyone other then lightwave users is it? Its on their website, it's in their newsletters, and here on the forum so it's for lightwave users and for people who might be looking for more information on lightwave. They're not putting it on other websites or othe publications or social media outside of lw circles so is there something unexpected here? The actual release would be something more worth publicizing.

cove
05-06-2016, 10:51 AM
I don't understand why they don't post shorter post with just a cool render or a screenshot of new UI windows or something. Just to make it look like the blog is alive.

"To make the blog look alive"
Maybe Rob Powers or Lino could provide a comment/summery about the varied
responses to what has been posted so far. If only to let us know that they have
found some responses have been usefull and acted upon them.

genesis1
07-23-2016, 05:24 AM
It all seems pretty quite now on the new release, thought it was going to be out in the summer, but obviously taking longer than expected. Any idea on a release date yet??

erikals
07-23-2016, 06:13 AM
with "quiet mode" i'd expect to get some info during Siggraph 2016... 24-28 July

one day to go... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/lwicon.png

jwiede
07-24-2016, 04:20 PM
Well then it's not really targeted at anyone other then lightwave users is it? Its on their website, it's in their newsletters, and here on the forum so it's for lightwave users and for people who might be looking for more information on lightwave. They're not putting it on other websites or othe publications or social media outside of lw circles so is there something unexpected here? The actual release would be something more worth publicizing.

You may have missed it, but they actually did announce the blog in their public Facebook feed, as well as separately mention individual blog articles. That's about as public a mention in social media as they could achieve without significant cost.

https://www.facebook.com/LightWave3D/posts/10153164781723806
https://www.facebook.com/LightWave3D/posts/10153492496578806

After this long without updates, it really is kind of reaching the point where they should either put an entry explaining that they're no longer updating the blog (and why), or change it from being a blog to just "supporting notes about LW 2017" or such. Just leaving it with a last entry in March isn't doing anything positive for their marketing efforts, esp. where there are still accessible social media references to it. In its current state, it just looks abandoned.

hrgiger
07-24-2016, 04:46 PM
You may have missed it, but they actually did announce the blog in their public Facebook feed, as well as separately mention individual blog articles. .

Which doesn't go against what I said earlier. Its on the facebook page which you most likely would not see if you were not following or looking for information on LightWave so its targeted to only people who are interested in LW, either current users or prospective ones.

jwiede
07-24-2016, 06:06 PM
Which doesn't go against what I said earlier. Its on the facebook page which you most likely would not see if you were not following or looking for information on LightWave so its targeted to only people who are interested in LW, either current users or prospective tones.

Yes, but if targeted at prospective customers, then (obviously) it is not just targeted at existing Lightwave users. The second prospective customers are added to the mix, LW3DG failing to provide timely blog updates becomes a (public) marketing liability. Anything which presents prospective customers with reason to question the company's follow-through and communication is a significant liability.

Snosrap
07-24-2016, 07:06 PM
More of the same from NT - poor marketing. If they close down the forums because of all the negativity that negativity is on them. You have a wildly enthusiastic core bunch of LWer's, why not take advantage of that and build upon it. Like devote a person to LW customer relations - I think Lightwave Evangelist is the proper term - remember when they had one of those. The guy leaves - replace him!

MichaelT
07-24-2016, 07:09 PM
So much negativity. This is as meaningful as asking when C4D R18 is coming out. I have nearly all major applications. And I keep coming back to Lightwave.. I know why. Its a personal thing. I will keep using LW for as long as I can (unless they mess it up of course. But I honestly don't see that happening) Because I love working with LW. I find it more fun, and rewarding. Unlike tools like Max, that give me a lot of grief for the most part.

Snosrap
07-24-2016, 09:19 PM
So much negativity.
My comments about negativity come from a suggestion on another thread that the forum went down to erase all the negative threads that had been posted the last few months. I think that is a bit of a stretch as I believe it was as told, a crash to the system - nothing more nothing less. But let's be real, there has been quite a bit of negativity going around as of late and I believe the sole reason is because of lack of communication on LW Group part. If I had a captured audience that liked the product I was pushing, I'd use them to help sell more product. Word of mouth is the best advertising there is. All it would take is 15 minutes once a week or so from LW Group to jump in and say "Hi" on occasion. How hard could that be?

Marander
07-25-2016, 03:04 AM
So much negativity. This is as meaningful as asking when C4D R18 is coming out.

No you're wrong. It's well known that MAXON is presenting C4D release news at Siggraph and that the software is normally released in September. And MAXON doesn't do weird constant sales like Newtek. And their software is stable and modern (except maybe Bodypaint for which they have presented a sneak preview of a new version). OK to be fair the overall price is much higher but due to the MSA I have the a clear pricing plan with upgrades and Cineversity included.

raw-m
07-25-2016, 10:05 AM
Speaking of which: http://r18.maxon.net/en/

Spinland
07-25-2016, 10:33 AM
... let's be real, there has been quite a bit of negativity going around as of late and I believe the sole reason is because of lack of communication on LW Group part. If I had a captured audience that liked the product I was pushing, I'd use them to help sell more product. Word of mouth is the best advertising there is. All it would take is 15 minutes once a week or so from LW Group to jump in and say "Hi" on occasion. How hard could that be?

I fully agree with this assessment. I get there might be a measure of LW3DG being fed up with all the whinging and griping here but, if that were a factor, I'd counsel growing a thicker skin rather than abandoning a vital marketing avenue out of frustration with the bad eggs. As someone in the trenches every day working to get market share for a small niche business in a competitive market I just don't get what they're trying to accomplish marketing-wise. I respect their hard work and commitment to the LW cause but sometimes it's a head-scratcher from where I sit. :confused:

js33
07-25-2016, 07:12 PM
You would think with Siggraph going on they would be making a push to show what's coming with Lightwave next even if it's not done. This is the best time to get high profile publicity cheaply. All they would have to do is post a teaser video and issue a press release. How long would that take?

Snosrap
07-25-2016, 09:09 PM
You would think with Siggraph going on they would be making a push to show what's coming with Lightwave next even if it's not done. This is the best time to get high profile publicity cheaply. All they would have to do is post a teaser video and issue a press release. How long would that take?

Yeah, that would be a no-brainer.

RoX
08-11-2016, 05:25 AM
Hi, sorry for my bad english.
In the Windows version, LW share its "temp" cache directory with Windows user\temp dir. In the future, will it be possible to move the LW cache directory on a separate not operative-system dedicated hard-disk?
Actually many workstation rigs have a SSD disk with OS and program-files installed on it and also one or more HDD to stored data and/or dedicated applications scratch disk settings.
Moving LW cache temp on a separated not OS HDD, could be strongly improve the LW global performance?
I hope to have been clear. Thank you very much in advance.

- - - Updated - - -

Chrusion
08-11-2016, 06:27 AM
I work for a large industrial manufacturing corp whose sole purpose for attending international industry trade shows and conventions is to SERVICE and MAINTAIN their EXISTING customers, even when it costs 5 million $ (0.005% of their total annual sales) to do so. Their secondary purpose is to attract new customers.

I get a real sense that Newtek's primary purpose for attending trade show conventions is to garner new customers. If this is true, then I believe it is the wrong reason for attending shows like Siggraph. The reason _I_ go to Siggraph is to connect with fellow Lightwave colleagues and Newtek itself, NOT to be dragged into Maya's, Max's, or CD4's booths and be told their products are superior. I want NT to tell and reassure me THEIR product is superior. That they are not is disheartening. And so goes yet another year (2 in a row now) where I'm being "dissed" by my supplier and missing rubbing shoulders with my fellow 'wavers (because the more 'wavers, the better and how many are not attending this year for the same reasons?).

Time for NT to re-evaluate their current course of marketing, advertising, sales, and customer service protocols. So what if there's nothing new to show... that's not the point. Service your customers FIRST and maybe get new ones in the process.

jasonwestmas
08-11-2016, 11:16 AM
Every software package is superior in its own way (much like creative problem solving people are unique). Trade shows do show me in what ways the product in question is superior.

bobakabob
08-12-2016, 03:28 AM
Every software package is superior in its own way (much like creative problem solving people are unique).

Nice quote there, Jason, they all have their strengths.

Photogram
08-16-2016, 02:46 AM
Hello,

Just had an idea for the new modeler workflow and want to share and hope get some good news about the modeler from LW3DG.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?134661-Again-Modeling-for-Camera-Projection&p=1479122#post1479122

Exclaim
08-17-2016, 03:11 PM
Honestly, I think NewTek is wondering what needs to be improved with Lightwave, without making changes that will leave the majority of the user base behind. Lightwave is capable, and that is very important, but to become what many people are requesting would require Lightwave to become a whole different product. Namely it would be more expensive, bloated, unfamiliar , and less friendly to the plug in community.

If Lightwave was going to make major improvements, they would need to take their time, maybe 3-4 years, while giving huge concessions to the user base in the form of upgrades. Think about what Autodesk did when they killed Softimage. They gave people max or Maya. Both are capable, but it wasn't Softimage, and a major change to Lightwave could have a similar effect.

rustythe1
08-17-2016, 05:37 PM
if you read the first blog post from October last year it had already been in development for 4 years then, we are nearly a year on from that so its had nearly 5 years of development.

Exclaim
08-17-2016, 06:25 PM
if you read the first blog post from October last year it had already been in development for 4 years then, we are nearly a year on from that so its had nearly 5 years of development.

Right. So they are moving along at a reasonable pace. Other companies might be moving faster, but their pace comes with some undesired consequences.

m.d.
08-17-2016, 08:40 PM
Right. So they are moving along at a reasonable pace. Other companies might be moving faster, but their pace comes with some undesired consequences.

And some very desirable consequences, such as increased user base, increased R&D, and seizing markets (TV) formerly owned by smaller 'reasonably paced' companies.

Exclaim
08-17-2016, 10:10 PM
Right. So they are moving along at a reasonable pace. Other companies might be moving faster, but their pace comes with some undesired consequences.


And some very desirable consequences, such as increased user base, increased R&D, and seizing markets (TV) formerly owned by smaller 'reasonably paced' companies.

Of course, but then their loyal fan base that supported them for years are now forced to use Blender3d for the affordability. Which will cause more SaaS nonsense to keep development sustainable. This will be really bad on the freelancer, small studio, and those who prefer to own their license. If it was about features to Lightwave users, I think most would have gone Autodesk long ago. I won't defend Lightwave losing ground in the T.V. industry, but much of that has to do with Lightwave losing ground in the education setting. Lightwave still has a good reputation, and produces competitive work by those who know how to use it.

js33
08-18-2016, 12:08 AM
I wonder if the new Star Trek show is beta testing the new Lightwave and they want to give it a thorough thrashing before releasing it to the public. There must have been something there for them to announce jobs using it.

50one
08-18-2016, 04:43 AM
I wonder if the new Star Trek show is beta testing the new Lightwave and they want to give it a thorough thrashing before releasing it to the public. There must have been something there for them to announce jobs using it.

Beta software in production? Yup, why not.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/016/674/802.jpg

:)

ActionBob
08-18-2016, 07:28 AM
Beta software in production? Yup, why not.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/016/674/802.jpg

:)

Hahahahaa.

Spinland
08-18-2016, 07:30 AM
Beta software in production? Yup, why not.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/016/674/802.jpg

:)

You've won the Internet for the day. Bwahahahahaha!

js33
08-18-2016, 01:03 PM
Beta software in production?

Well not in direct production but testing and feedback session perhaps. They certainly are not letting us beta test or even look at it so someone has to beyond the LW3DG.

js33
08-18-2016, 01:06 PM
Beta software in production?

You know it's not like they are letting you beta test it. So someone else must be doing it.

50one
08-18-2016, 04:03 PM
I wouldn't mind beta test it. i'm testing other software and it's a hard work to be fair.

rustythe1
08-18-2016, 05:05 PM
They certainly are not letting us beta test or even look at it so someone has to beyond the LW3DG.
What do you mean us, did you not get the email for the secret forum?

js33
08-18-2016, 05:49 PM
What do you mean us, did you not get the email for the secret forum?

Yeah I did I just didn't want to say anything that might make you feel bad.:D

- - - Updated - - -


I wouldn't mind beta test it. i'm testing other software and it's a hard work to be fair.

The LW3DG has Lightwave locked up tighter than two hairs in a biscuit.

DavidDixon
12-21-2016, 02:53 AM
Great to look nice performance improvement.

MichaelT
12-21-2016, 04:27 AM
Be that as it may.. the 'act now' card for getting a new license, have played its moment already. Just saying :)

Snosrap
12-21-2016, 06:32 AM
Be that as it may.. the 'act now' card for getting a new license, have played its moment already. Just saying :) Well to be fair I've been getting an "Act Now" e-mail for onOne - https://www.on1.com/ about every week for the last 3 months. Plus I recall other companies doing the same prior to a new release. NT must be selling a fair share of new licenses so they can keep the doors opens. :)

jwiede
12-21-2016, 02:10 PM
Well to be fair I've been getting an "Act Now" e-mail for onOne - https://www.on1.com/ about every week for the last 3 months. Plus I recall other companies doing the same prior to a new release.

Were it just three months of "act now, time is limited!", I think most would be tolerant. LW3DG's been doing this for much, much longer than three months. LW3DG's continued running of the same, "hurry and buy!" promotion for this long also doesn't say anything particularly positive about their view of potential customers.

QUOTE=Snosrap;1493036]NT must be selling a fair share of new licenses so they can keep the doors opens. :)[/QUOTE]

Such extended period and level of discounting strongly suggests something else is occurring, alas. :grumpy:

iaef
09-13-2017, 07:08 AM
Were it just three months of "act now, time is limited!", I think most would be tolerant. LW3DG's been doing this for much, much longer than three months. LW3DG's continued running of the same, "hurry and buy!" promotion for this long also doesn't say anything particularly positive about their view of potential customers.

QUOTE=Snosrap;1493036]NT must be selling a fair share of new licenses so they can keep the doors opens. :)

Such extended period and level of discounting strongly suggests something else is occurring, alas. :grumpy:[/QUOTE]

I really wish the best to the LW3D team and all of us as followers, but there has been a really long period of quietness, aside from the monthly newsletter.
I just hope this one do not goes along the lines of a product like Director at Adobe, for I have been a long time fan of it since it was something like QuickSilver, and that is much to say from someone who is not working on the CGI industry.

It would be nice to have someone from NT to come out and say hi, we are very much alive.

gar26lw
09-13-2017, 07:43 AM
Let's face it, the way things are, it's dead.

erikals
09-13-2017, 08:02 AM
LightWave, coming Christmas 2017!

...or, the next century.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3at_Ev2kOoI

MAUROCOR
09-13-2017, 08:13 AM
LightWave, coming Christmas 2017!

...or, the next century.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3at_Ev2kOoI
:oye::oye::oye::oye::oye::oye::oye::oye::oye::oye:

sadkkf
09-13-2017, 08:56 AM
Well to be fair I've been getting an "Act Now" e-mail for onOne - https://www.on1.com/ about every week for the last 3 months. Plus I recall other companies doing the same prior to a new release. NT must be selling a fair share of new licenses so they can keep the doors opens. :)

I receive those emails from ON1 as well. They do have a very aggressive marketing team and have come a long way from developing Photoshop plugins. My thinking is ON1 is working hard to build revenues, which is why they're offering so many classes and bonus content to subscribers.

Snosrap
09-13-2017, 10:01 AM
I receive those emails from ON1 as well. They do have a very aggressive marketing team and have come a long way from developing Photoshop plugins. My thinking is ON1 is working hard to build revenues, which is why they're offering so many classes and bonus content to subscribers.

I did end up upgrading. :) Plus I also received an e-mail later pointing me to a link with what they are working on for the next version. Very nice way of promoting their product and something NT could learn from.

137890

https://www.on1.com/promo/photo-raw-project-exposed/?utm_campaign=RAWExposed_09-2017&utm_source=RAW_Own&utm_medium=email

JamesCurtis
09-13-2017, 11:00 AM
Yeah, I upgraded my On1 software about a month or so back too. Had Photo 10.5 and bought the upgrade for $49.99. Great price and lots of features.I too think the LW3D team could learn from this aswell.

iaef
09-13-2017, 08:38 PM
It would be good to have @Rob Powers showing up again to clarify current status.
I, for one, would appreciate to know if I have to wait 3 years, and not being tired of showing up every year and see things are at the same state as last year.

hrgiger
09-14-2017, 01:55 AM
It would be good to have @Rob Powers showing up again to clarify current status.
I, for one, would appreciate to know if I have to wait 3 years, and not being tired of showing up every year and see things are at the same state as last year.


Maybe Rob Powers isnt' with the company any longer. Its been almost a year since anyone has heard from him and the last time we had any word from anyone it came from Andrew Cross. Last time NT management had anything to say about LW was when they got rid of Jay Roth and killed CORE. And when I wrote to LW3DG a month ago, I asked about LW Next and if Rob was still with the company. They only replied about LW Next (we're working on it, blah blah blah....) and ignored my question about Rob.

Marander
09-14-2017, 02:57 AM
Maybe Rob Power isnt' with the company any longer. Its been almost a year since anyone has heard from him and the last time we had any word from anyone it came from Andrew Cross. Last time NT management had anything to say about LW was when they got rid of Jay Roth and killed CORE. And when I wrote to LW3DG a month ago, I asked about LW Next and if Rob was still with the company. They only replied about LW Next (we're working on it, blah blah blah....) and ignored my question about Rob.

Interesting info thanks.

The only acceptable reason for the silence is that they are not allowed to communicate due to some personal / health reasons of RP or legal issues. Anything else is not acceptable in my opinion. The damage is done already anyway.

fablefox
09-14-2017, 04:41 AM
Beta software in production? Yup, why not.

<meme pic removed>

:)

Actually, it was more often than not, specially when it come to new research and high end movie.

There are technologies developed seat-of-the-pant as if to get a movie done. From the original Tron all the way to even now. Some end up being sold to public as software/plug-ins. So yeah, it's possible.

Maybe not all scene, not all PC, not all asset. Maybe special 'hero scene' which they can quickly scrap if the result isn't good enough.

I watched enough bonus content on DVD to know that happen a lot on the 'trying to get over the edge' movies which the director just shrugged, "we deleted the scene because we couldn't get acceptable result".

My 2 cent.

Surrealist.
09-14-2017, 04:45 AM
Well one thing is for sure. This was a tough road for anyone to take. No matter how it was done. Nothing would surprise me. A lot of people have their "well man all they need to do is...". And my take on it is, I would have left with the Modo team. Screw this. So I see anyone left to clean up the mess that was LightWave after attempts to breathe life into a corpse for 10 years as, man... lucky you! Geez! Needless to say I would not envy them. But it goes around and around in circles. They should not have killed CORE. But core was going to realistically take 15 years. (no one wanted to admit to that or commit to it) So they change course and decide to perform taxidermy on the corpse. That is also another good 10 years job - at least from that point. No one, especially the public wants to believe that. Or buy into it and so on. And that is why I would have just said screw this. LightWave dies in 2000 and life moves on. But you know, they wanted to keep propping it up and following that mistake by other mistakes. The whole thing smacks of one big case of denial.

So you say you want to support LightWave and be positive. I know I do. But that also means being realistic. To continue to believe in LightWave, in that initial thing that brought you to this application in the first place, and to want it to succeed means to commit to the long term. And it seems that no one but no one wants to admit to that. Not the management, not the developers, not the public. Silence and rage.

So it is not surprising to me, that the people who inspired me to get into 3D way back then, Stuart and Allen, who seemed to be at the right place at the right time, continued to have the good sense to know when it was the right place and right time to move on. And we now have Modo. Which is here now. Right on time to eek out the same niche that LightWave did in the beginning.

Go figure.

I think if they release the next version - assuming they can get it working - it will be great. But most people are still not going to grasp where it is in the long haul and be critical that it is still old LightWave. Whatever, I think they could do it. They can move back up in the market with the stated plan. Maybe I am an optimist. But they have to be committed to a long term plan. If not. Just pull the plug and walk away.

50one
09-14-2017, 05:11 AM
Actually, it was more often than not, specially when it come to new research and high end movie.

There are technologies developed seat-of-the-pant as if to get a movie done. From the original Tron all the way to even now. Some end up being sold to public as software/plug-ins. So yeah, it's possible.

Maybe not all scene, not all PC, not all asset. Maybe special 'hero scene' which they can quickly scrap if the result isn't good enough.

I watched enough bonus content on DVD to know that happen a lot on the 'trying to get over the edge' movies which the director just shrugged, "we deleted the scene because we couldn't get acceptable result".

My 2 cent.



There's a difference my friend between a "Beta" software and in-house tools / plugins / extension.

Edit.

Like I said in other thread - I'm assuming Rob is long gone or on gag order until the work is done and he can be sacked.

Paul_Boland
09-14-2017, 02:40 PM
The very long silence and lack of communication reminds me of the recent Atari game release of Rollercoaster Tycoon World. Atari promised the world, a great top notch game with all the bells and whistles and then some. Then the game went into Early Access and when gamers got it, they didn't like what they say. Atari said it would get better. Then just days prior to the release, the CEO of Atari released a statement saying Atari were committed to the game's future and not to worry. The game got released and Atari went quiet. Now the game is in limbo with lots of features missing and lots of fans peed off!! Constant calls on Atari to address the issues and release the missing features from the game fall on deaf ears.

Lightwave Next is like this in that calls for info is falling on deaf ears and we recently have the a top member of LW3DG come on and say all is well... But is it???

Nicolas Jordan
09-14-2017, 05:12 PM
M And when I wrote to LW3DG a month ago, I asked about LW Next and if Rob was still with the company. They only replied about LW Next (we're working on it, blah blah blah....) and ignored my question about Rob.

When there are long delays like this and plenty of silence it makes me wonder about many things including if Rob Powers is still steering the Lightwave ship. We know Matt and Lino still seem to be on board.

erikals
09-14-2017, 07:07 PM
...And when I wrote to LW3DG a month ago, I asked about LW Next and if Rob was still with the company. They only replied about LW Next (we're working on it, blah blah blah....) and ignored my question about Rob.
i'm just crossing fingers and toes he is alright. last time we heard from him he was sick. so praying all is well.
not speculating more on that, just hoping all is fine.