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Dillon
03-17-2016, 03:56 PM
It's clear to anyone who was at GDC in San Francisco that VR will be vital for 3D content creation, and game design. Unity and Unreal Engine both showed off their VR editor. They're incredible.

Even the Foundry knows this with their announcement of 10, and the introduction of creating content while in VR.

LW3D Group?

hrgiger
03-17-2016, 06:27 PM
I saw the VR demonstration where they're editing content in the game. Personally it looks clunky to me and not something I would use. All the editing I do in Unreal, my arms would be dead tired in 10 mintues manipulating like that. Don't get me wrong it was cool to watch but just seems like a tech gimmick to me more then anything. I wouldn't put too much stock into it yet.

Modo is focusing on games and VR for the initial release of Modo 10. And then that will be the last update you'll see in a while that has to do with games as they're focusing in other areas for at least the rest of the 10 series. So it had better be a good update. I didn't see anything that dealt with LOD creation- too bad, that seems like a missed opportunity. Having said that, I will be in all likelihood upgrade to 10 when it comes out as I'm using Unreal currently.

We already know what LW3DG is working on for the next release. And its intended to be an evolutionary step to improving LightWave's architecture. I wouldn't expect to see any real focus in an area like games or VR for LightWave Next. I would just be thrilled if they had implemented smoothing groups or if they adopted the metalness workflow for the new PBR render engine to make it easier to create textures for Unreal or Unity. Those two things alone would be great.

Dillon
03-17-2016, 11:40 PM
I saw the VR demonstration where they're editing content in the game. Personally it looks clunky to me and not something I would use. All the editing I do in Unreal, my arms would be dead tired in 10 mintues manipulating like that. Don't get me wrong it was cool to watch but just seems like a tech gimmick to me more then anything. I wouldn't put too much stock into it yet.

Modo is focusing on games and VR for the initial release of Modo 10. And then that will be the last update you'll see in a while that has to do with games as they're focusing in other areas for at least the rest of the 10 series. So it had better be a good update. I didn't see anything that dealt with LOD creation- too bad, that seems like a missed opportunity. Having said that, I will be in all likelihood upgrade to 10 when it comes out as I'm using Unreal currently.

We already know what LW3DG is working on for the next release. And its intended to be an evolutionary step to improving LightWave's architecture. I wouldn't expect to see any real focus in an area like games or VR for LightWave Next. I would just be thrilled if they had implemented smoothing groups or if they adopted the metalness workflow for the new PBR render engine to make it easier to create textures for Unreal or Unity. Those two things alone would be great.

Agreed that LW3D Group needs to focus very sharply on making Lightwave game engine friendly.

Disagree that that designing layouts in VR editor is a gimmick. I've already seen several traditional artists leap for joy when they saw the interactivity and immediacy of having controls mimick their own natural movements. This is what I was talking about in the other thread, that VR will allow many sidelined artists to enter the fray. To traditional artists, creating in 3D using a keyboard/mouse and 2D screen is a total hindrance, and a creative block.

Both Unity and Unreal VR editors are still in development/beta. I'd expect the full actualization of VR editing tools to be transformative, much like the mouse was transformative for giving the user a finer grade of input into the computer.

Right now, it appears clunky; but you will see. Each iteration of the software interface for UI in VR design will become finer and finer.

I think we will all be surprised how profoundly & deeply VR will change how people interact with computers and information.

Danner
03-18-2016, 03:41 AM
I agree with Dillon, some people are dismissing VR a little too quickly. We have been burned before, (3d TVs?) so some skepticism is natural. But instant and accurate head and hand tracking have to be experienced to understand the potential. I haven't been this excited for any technology in years, I ordered the Vive and I'm like a kid waiting for christmas.

MichaelT
03-18-2016, 04:40 AM
If they allow me to look around in VR, while still using pen, mouse & keyboard to edit things. It can be incredibly productive. I would not put too much stock into using VR controlled handsets though.. that would be very tiring.

hrgiger
03-18-2016, 07:55 AM
If they allow me to look around in VR, while still using pen, mouse & keyboard to edit things. It can be incredibly productive. I would not put too much stock into using VR controlled handsets though.. that would be very tiring.

yeah exactly. spend a few hours holding your arms in the air manipulating... nope. Looks cool, but in practical terms, its not a good way to work. But that's just my personal opinion. And all of my interest for Modo 10 is for games work, don't care about VR.

mummyman
03-18-2016, 08:00 AM
I sit in a chair waaayyyy too many hours a day. Is that really better than standing using a VR headset? Who's to say but time and the body it's strapped too. People have back, wrist and neck issues now. I'm sure altering posture with a headset or hands in the air will do things for a posture as well. Not to mention vision / headaches. But we're not doing the best thing by sitting all day without a stand-up desk either! Gimmicky or not, it's coming on strong. I'm up for it.

Dillon
03-18-2016, 08:38 AM
yeah exactly. spend a few hours holding your arms in the air manipulating... nope. Looks cool, but in practical terms, its not a good way to work. But that's just my personal opinion. And all of my interest for Modo 10 is for games work, don't care about VR.

I wonder how sculpturers, painters, and dancers are able to use their limbs for hours on end...

I have a standing desk. And I know I could easily work with my arms for hours at time. I won't be holding them in the air suspended indefinitely.Creating in VR will become almost like a dance. Soooooo much better than sitting in a chair all day.

Norka
03-18-2016, 08:45 AM
VR will be great for demo/visualization/configurator stuff.. and games, obviously.. but not for working for any extended period (hours) - regardless of industry, but especially content creation.. IMHO.

hrgiger
03-18-2016, 08:54 AM
I wonder how sculpturers, painters, and dancers are able to use their limbs for hours on end...



Sculptors and painters also have a tactile object in front of them that gives resistance to their motions.

Dillon
03-18-2016, 09:35 AM
Sculptors and painters also have a tactile object in front of them that gives resistance to their motions.

For painters, that doesn't take the weight off of their arm's weight suspending them in the air, and sculpture artists have heavy tools they sculpt with.

I'm going to guess you haven't seen the tilt brush videos where artists spend hours doing what you say can't be done. Also going to assume that if you HAVE seen these videos, you'll point out how much like a toy tilt brush is, rather than a professional development tool. ;) I give you unreal engine and unity, both vigorously moving to make it a professional development tool

Developing and creating in vr will certainly require a little bit of stamina, and that is not hard to acquire.

hrgiger
03-18-2016, 10:12 AM
I'm going to guess you haven't seen the tilt brush videos where artists spend hours doing what you say can't be done. Also going to assume that if you HAVE seen these videos, you'll point out how much like a toy tilt brush is, rather than a professional development tool. ;) I give you unreal engine and unity, both vigorously moving to make it a professional development tool

.

Unreal and unity are doing exactly what Modo is and that is jumping on a trending or emerging tech like VR. And it will be simply one segment of their development because they know that most people are going to continue to use mouse or tablets for the foreseeable future.

And its not simply an issue of stamina, its a tactile thing where you're working in air as opposed to a solid object where you get true and immediate feedback which you currently cannot get from VR. But again, this is simply my personal view, there's no need to argue it. You're giddy about VR, I'm completely indifferent to it. Case closed.

Dillon
03-18-2016, 10:20 AM
Unreal and unity are doing exactly what Modo is and that is jumping on a trending or emerging tech like VR. And it will be simply one segment of their development because they know that most people are going to continue to use mouse or tablets for the foreseeable future.

And its not simply an issue of stamina, its a tactile thing where you're working in air as opposed to a solid object where you get true and immediate feedback which you currently cannot get from VR. But again, this is simply my personal view, there's no need to argue it. You're giddy about VR, I'm completely indifferent to it. Case closed.

Hmm. All due respect, dude, I work in an art college, and have worked in art colleges for 17.5 years now. There isn't THAT much tactile feedback when you're painting on a canvas. Not too much different than minutely moving a super light input controller while working with a physically accurate brush inside a VR environment. Such "physically accurate" brushes exist in photoshop and Allegorithmic's Painter. They'll become far more accurate if you're able to use these brushes in a true 3D space.

Of course I'm giddy about VR. I've been tinkering in VR for over 2 years now, and have seen for myself how powerful the medium is. Just about anyone who has spent any real measurable time working/creating in VR knows how powerful the medium is. I don't think that Unreal and Unity would be spending the resources they're spending to develop software for hardware yet to be released, if they also did not see how powerful a medium VR is.

As someone who has been using LightWave since 1997, during the Amiga Video Toaster days, who has used LightWave as his primary 3D creation tool, I am hoping that LW3D Group sees how powerful VR as a medium is, as well. I mean, Rob Powers himself saw how important Virtual Studio was to bring to Layout as soon as possible. VR input and display is just a natural step forward in the same direction. I'd like to know if they are planning on taking those steps.

Because VR is a whole new medium, this will have deep and profound impacts on almost every industry. I'd rather keep with the tool I grew up with, than have to abandon ship. The more I work in VR, the more I become convinced that this is the medium I've been waiting for all my life. It's been fascinating to watch all the tools develop over the last 3 years, and those who jumped on the bandwagon early got to experience the birth pangs of this medium. It's been an incredible ride.

In less than a few weeks, the rest of the world will start to experience this powerful new medium.

lightscape
03-18-2016, 10:53 AM
Count me as one of those traditional artist that will pass on this. Its good for demos, visualization, games, immersion but not for replacing the mouse and keyboard. Touch UI can't even replace it for accuracy and efficiency.

Used google cardboard for a while. It was fun at first but got boring quickly.
I tried to play Zelda, I think, on a wii controller and it got repetitive and tedious I wanted to grab a traditional controller.

Wearing those things close to your eyes for hours everyday is a health hazard. Computer work = nerds with glasses. :D
http://hairstyles9.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/14400082606185.jpeg

http://hairstyles9.org/the-man-who-is-diagnosed-eyes-cancer-because-of-doing-this-at-night.html

hrgiger
03-18-2016, 10:54 AM
Hmm. All due respect, dude, I work in an art college, and have worked in art colleges for 17.5 years now. There isn't THAT much tactile feedback when you're painting on a canvas. Not too much different than minutely moving a super light input controller while working with a physically accurate brush inside a VR environment. Such "physically accurate" brushes exist in photoshop and Allegorithmic's Painter. They'll become far more accurate if you're able to use these brushes in a true 3D space.



And I went to CCAD. But that doesn't really hold any relevance. When you're painting, you're working with an actual physical object, you know exactly when your brush is touching on the canvas, you can feel the pressure you are putting on the stroke.. in that way, a Wacom tablet is much closer to painting then anything you'll do in VR. Dude, I'm glad you're excited about it though, keep living the dream.

Dillon
03-18-2016, 10:58 AM
Count me as one of those traditional artist .... Used google cardboard for a while.....

Wearing those things close to your eyes for hours everyday is a health hazard. Computer work = nerds with glasses. :D
http://hairstyles9.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/14400082606185.jpeg

http://hairstyles9.org/the-man-who-is-diagnosed-eyes-cancer-because-of-doing-this-at-night.html

/facepalm

Have you used any real VR headset in existence? Like a DK2, or a Vive Pre? Google cardboard is *NOT* true VR. Neither is gear VR.

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And I went to CCAD. But that doesn't really hold any relevance. When you're painting, you're working with an actual physical object, you know exactly when your brush is touching on the canvas, you can feel the pressure you are putting on the stroke.. in that way, a Wacom tablet is much closer to painting then anything you'll do in VR. Dude, I'm glad you're excited about it though, keep living the dream.

As someone who has been blessed with the opportunity to have early access to all of the above, I can easily say it's no longer a dream :D

You will see, in time, my friend.

jeric_synergy
03-18-2016, 11:40 AM
More than likely it'll be a mix of approaches. -Some pretty hysterical (not humorous) opposition here to an emerging technology, reminiscent of the tantrums of "traditional artists" in response to digital tools. What goes around comes around.

It's for sure that some of the blobs I see working in the industry could benefit from moving around a bit more.

hrgiger
03-18-2016, 12:05 PM
More than likely it'll be a mix of approaches. -Some pretty hysterical (not humorous) opposition here to an emerging technology, reminiscent of the tantrums of "traditional artists" in response to digital tools. What goes around comes around.

.

Its not opposition, its just not adoption. I have yet to see the real appeal of it. If I ever do , then I will consider it then.

lightscape
03-18-2016, 06:25 PM
/facepalm

Have you used any real VR headset in existence? Like a DK2, or a Vive Pre? Google cardboard is *NOT* true VR. Neither is gear VR.

- - - Updated - - -



As someone who has been blessed with the opportunity to have early access to all of the above, I can easily say it's no longer a dream :D

You will see, in time, my friend.

How bad is your eyesight? Get ready to get even more retinal abuse :D

I like to stare out the window while working :D