View Full Version : Textures sliding in model

12-10-2003, 02:05 PM
Can anyone help because I haven't got a clue why it's doing this. I tried moving a textured object in model and the model moved but all the textures stayed in world space. I thought that it might be because either I had world coordinates ticked in the texture window, or that I had a null assigned for scaling. It's neither of them. So I tried loading a character from the Lightwave tutorial, one with textures on. Moved it around and it done the same thing. I'm pretty sure it didn't do this a few days ago so why has it started doing it now? The only thing I can think that I've done was to reload all my plugins but I can't see how this would cause such an effect.

Any help on this would be much appreciated because it's doing my head in.



12-10-2003, 09:32 PM
Well, that's what I would have said - World Coordinates but, since you already checked that and found it was not the problem, I would imagine it may be a preferences file corruption. I'm not sure though. If it's not world coordinates, it's something really odd. Are the textures UV mapped or projection?

12-10-2003, 11:47 PM
You're in Modeler right?

Don't texture in Modeler - texture in Layout. You also have the advantage of seeing your results right away with VIPER.

12-11-2003, 12:52 AM
do what Dan says.

If you you texture in modeler(sans UV mapping) and then move your model around within modeler, your textures will stay within the same coordinates you set them to, while your model will have been moved to new coordinates.

The thing to do in this case is to use modeler for UV mapping, and assigning surfaces. Anything else to do with texturing would be better off done in Layout just because when you start moving the model around in layout, all the textures will move with it.

Just think of it as a projector projecting an image on one of those pull down screens: if you make the screen go up, the projection of the image is still projecting to the same position, accept its projecting its image against the wall or whatever was behind the screen.

Now if this projector and screen were in a flatbed truck(.lwo file) then you can move that flatbed truck around and the screen will still show the projected image.

I know, I know, kind of a convoluted explanation, but that is basically how Layout treats a model. In modeler, you can manipulate the screen and the image independantly, in layout, you manipulate the .lwo file or flatbed truck or what ever.

yah, just do what dan said.

hehe :rolleyes:

12-11-2003, 03:30 AM
So is this a bug? Why would you want it to do that, and if you did want to surely you'd just use lock to world. Also how comes when I loaded a lightwave example character with a texture that they'd set it done the same thing, did they also make this in Model? Thanks for the replies, I've been moving around in layout mainly which is why I noticed it so late after I made the model.

On a seperate note can you load a scene into model. So say I've cloned some models in Layout and want to have some cloth set around the base of them. But i want the cloth to crease a bit where the bottom of the objects are. Can I just load all the objects and clones into model so I can use them a s a template to where I want the cloth to go. Or do I just have to make a copy in model?

Thanks for all your help on this

12-11-2003, 05:15 AM
It's not a bug.

You'll notice, if you look, that the pivot stays at 0,0,0 or wherever you moved it even if you move the polys around. So if you think about it the texture would stay in it's position and not follow the polys with world or local coordinates, doesn't matter.

Your not moving the model, your more or less moving parts of the model, even if you have everything selected. Or maybe your moving the polys in the models own space, niether local nor world coordinates. Whichever one makes more sense ;)

soooo, you can move the polys and points around the way you want, then you have to move the pivot the way you want and then you have to move the textures the way you want...all adjusted separatly and independantly.

You can texture in modelor but like Dan says it's better to do it in Layout.


12-11-2003, 06:18 AM
Oh I see, I still think it would be better if they had it so it moved the textures with the polys and not stuck to the pivot. Like I said if you wanted that desired effect which is hardly ever you'd just tick the world box.
I know you can do it in Layout but then why did they put editable surfaces in modeler in the first place if they didn't want you to use them in model?

But thanks for the info guys

12-11-2003, 12:28 PM
I see your point about why we shouldn't be able to texture in modeler, but the more options the better.

Just make sure you save your object after you're done texturing it while you're in Layout through the File>Save>Save Current Object menu. I usually choose the File>Save>Save All Objects instead, just to make sure I didn't forget something.

If you don't save you're object in Layaout, all the work you did will have been wasted(except the animation you did to it and what not). Unlike Maya, Max, and others, the texturing on Objects aren't saved within a scene(.lws) file. They are saved within an object(.lwo) file. Whatever you do to a model in Modeler will show up in all the other scenes the model is in. This can be another annoying feature, but once you get used to it, it's pretty cool.

So say you have a creature that has a lot of teeth, and you've been animating different scenes with the creature in it. The director says, dude, i just looked at the book the script is from, and the creature has no teeth! I'm so sorry! You say, no problem and you get rid of the teeth in Modeler and all the scenes are automatically updated! This has its down sides too, but it is a pretty kewl thing to get used too nonetheless, and it sure beats copying and pasting or deleting things over and over again in a lot of scenes!

I don't know what 3d package you're coming from, but it is kind of like the referencing feature in Maya.

12-11-2003, 01:48 PM
I'd like to point out another annoying "feature" of texturing in Layout.

Let's say you are setting up your textures in layout for the past few hours. Your just tweaking things and messing around, so you haven't saved yet, but things are looking pretty good and your about ready to run a test render to decide if you wanna keep these changes. You see something that you think needs to be changed in the mesh, or just want to try something out, perhaps modeling in some detail instead of texturing it, so you fire up modeler and start messing around. You decide that you don't like the way you have changed the model, so like any other software, you quit modeler without saving changes.
Well guess what, you have just blown all of the texturing work you just did in layout (if your running the hub). Even knowing this, you can find yourself in quite a spot if you have made more changes than modeler will undo. I have found a solution though, control+alt+delete and crash modeler from the task manager.

12-11-2003, 03:24 PM

12-11-2003, 04:03 PM
Yeah I guess it's like all software, they all have something you love but all of them will always have something you dislike or just not have a feature that you really want.

I just hope Newtek keep listening to their users and keep getting those features in there.

A Mejias
12-11-2003, 06:29 PM
Another reason I don't run the hub!

12-12-2003, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by A Mejias
Another reason I don't run the hub!


One time, I swear, I tweaked surfaces in Layout but didn't like the results, so I quit modeler without saving, then quit layout without saving. I still lost the original textures!?!

12-12-2003, 03:28 AM
Even if you texture in Layout and dont run the hub you still have the same potential problem: If you change the location/orientation of your model in modeler and resave it and then reload into layout your textures will be messed up.
Your best bet in that situation would be to resave your object as a different version or as was mentioned, use UV maps.

Dan mentioned using Viper in Layout which is a good idea. There are some other reasons why you might want to do your texturing at least in part in modeler:
Creating templates for projections such as "unwrapping", whether for standard projections or UV maps.
Texture guide - a tool for precise placement of textures.
Textured Point - A tool for creating weight maps, vertex color maps, endomorphs and others using textures.
Also, UV maps can only be created and applied in modeler.

12-12-2003, 03:46 AM
Thats the thing there's some good reasons to texture in model so surely they should try and stop this problem of the texture sticking to the pivot and not the polys?

12-12-2003, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by peteb
Thats the thing there's some good reasons to texture in model so surely they should try and stop this problem of the texture sticking to the pivot and not the polys?

Thats probably true. :)
Its never ever been a problem for me as long as I can remember.
I usually dont texture until Im very sure I have no need to move things about in modeler. If Im not sure I go with UV maps.
To be honest Im using UVs more and more when I have to map images onto things. I just keep it simple when I do. :)
Procedurals arent an issue with this unless I need to UV map my procedurals and then it must be done in modeler if I need to adjust them precisely. :)

12-12-2003, 03:59 AM
I think thats a problem with software developers sometimes, because there's a way around something they tend to just leave it even though fixing it would solve a lot of problems. Maybe i 'm wrong maybe it's got a good reason to be like this but I can't see it myself.

Since working with some top programmers who have designed a modeling package and texturing package for us to use for the games we're working on I've realised how some things in traditional packages really suck. Lightwave has some great stuff but some of it is really bad and I think it needs to be addressed. Like I said I just hope Newtek llisten to their users a lot.

12-12-2003, 04:07 AM
Newteks been pretty good about listening. It may be that nobodies complained about this. I would submit it as a feature request or a bug fix directly to them. :)

12-12-2003, 05:19 AM
Yeah good idea I'll do that, mind you they're probably fed up with me because I've put in loads of requests :)

12-12-2003, 08:52 AM
I consider LW to be more like a movie studio in this way - you build your sets/props in Modeller, then move them to the Stage, Layout, where you place them properly.

Looking at it this way, placing your model in Modeller is like moving a prop while someone is still trying to paint it.

Also, technically, if you wanted to have the texture stick to the polygons, you'd have to have a UV map for every single texture no matter what the mapping type, like 3DSMax.

If you still want the texture to follow in Modeller it's easy to just hit 'Automatic size' after your move.