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View Full Version : Why do selections have to be so bad?



squarewulf
02-11-2016, 05:39 PM
I click something in layout, it selects something behind it most of the time. If i'm trying to make multiple selections then I have to strategically deselect that object, in doing so I then select yet another undesirable mesh. Every time.

I know I could lock items as I make them or select from the scene editor but cmon!

Niko3D
02-11-2016, 05:57 PM
I usually work with big scene with a lot of differents objects and this.........it is very annoying!!!

squarewulf
02-11-2016, 06:19 PM
I have 237 items in my scene right now, mostly duplicates of 3 pieces and i'm only about half way done. :dito:

it's a nightmare sometimes.

Kaptive
02-11-2016, 07:14 PM
When it gets crazy like that, and you know it is going to get crazy before you even start... some organisation and forethought really helps to best make use of scene editor. Very situation dependent, but long term it is worth the effort. Using parenting to group items, and even groups of groups. Colour items, lock things (like you say)... etc etc. It is a bit of a ball ache, but saves you much time and frustrations later. Haha, not that I'm perfect and still totally fail to do this most of the time. I think it often comes down to not anticipating how big it is going to get until you get there (and it takes 5 minutes to scroll to the bottom of the object list :D ). When you start cloning things etc, it all gets a bit out of hand!

But parenting items and just moving the parent can be a real time saver. But it is all situation dependent. Selecting items (in a complex scene) in the viewport is never ideal, and I'm not sure there will ever be a simple way to solve this.

That said, maybe one day we might get some sort of mesh highlight as you move over the objects to show what you are about to select... that'd be very very useful.

DrStrik9
02-11-2016, 07:53 PM
Sounds very tedious. Scene editor is probably the best way (??) -- but also tedious. What would the solution be, operationally speaking, if a much-improved "object election interface" was developed?

Surrealist.
02-11-2016, 09:24 PM
Two monitors. Scene editor on one. Because of LW's extremely horrible and deplorable selection problem that has been there as far as I can remember, I get into the habit of locking things I not currently using. Unfortunately it is the only way.

Additionally I will hide things I don't need to see.

DrStrik9
02-11-2016, 11:18 PM
Yeah, two monitors is a must for a lot of things like this.

Sensei
02-11-2016, 11:23 PM
I have 237 items in my scene right now, mostly duplicates of 3 pieces and i'm only about half way done. :dito:


What are you doing with your objects after selecting them? Maybe this can be automated/optimized..

BeeVee
02-12-2016, 05:03 AM
Also the item selection window at the end of the Current Item dropdown can be useful. You can make selection sets in it and filter too.

B

souzou
02-12-2016, 05:30 AM
I also find selection in layout annoying, particularly as I use a tablet so if you try and select something in the viewport you invariably end up moving it.

I always end up using the scene editor instead - selection sets are a lifesaver on large scenes.

MichaelT
02-12-2016, 05:42 AM
I usually open a second window frame. Like with pressing 'd' and select to have two (or other combination) of view frames. Then select one of them to be 'schematic'. Then I can click on the object I am interested in from that view. Using fit selected, it will zoom into the object of interest.

BeeVee
02-12-2016, 07:09 AM
I also find selection in layout annoying, particularly as I use a tablet so if you try and select something in the viewport you invariably end up moving it.

I always end up using the scene editor instead - selection sets are a lifesaver on large scenes.

Can you use the MMB to select? Probably not as easy as just hitting the tip, but using a mouse I always turn off Left Button Item Select for exactly that reason.

B

souzou
02-12-2016, 07:17 AM
Can you use the MMB to select? Probably not as easy as just hitting the tip, but using a mouse I always turn off Left Button Item Select for exactly that reason.

B

Yes you can (and I have button 2 on the pen setup as MMB), but I guess it's muscle memory - when you're using multiple programs every day (like AE, Illustrator, C4D etc) it's hard to change such a basic/fundamental operation for just one program. At least for me. Maybe I'm getting too old to burn the new neural pathways ;)

jasonwestmas
02-12-2016, 07:30 AM
The Objects, Bones, Lights and Cameras buttons actually act as selection masks. For example if you select the Objects button it highlights and then the only thing you can LEFT click on are objects. But if you MIDDLE click you can click on anything without issue and then the mode will change from Objects selection to the category of the item you clicked on. So in effect the MMB does work better for selecting in the viewport.

souzou
02-12-2016, 07:37 AM
The Objects, Bones, Lights and Cameras buttons actually act as selection masks. For example if you select the Objects button it highlights and then the only thing you can LEFT click on are objects. But if you MIDDLE click you can click on anything without issue and then the mode will change from Objects selection to the category of the item you clicked on. So in effect the MMB does work better for selecting in the viewport.

Hmm that's not how it works for me. I can left click on anything.

MichaelT
02-12-2016, 07:47 AM
MMB is unfortunately a bit imprecise. It doesn't always select what you expect. Which is why I use the schematic.

jasonwestmas
02-12-2016, 08:02 AM
yeah for some reason you have to have the alt key pressed down and then the "masking" will work. Wierd.

MonroePoteet
02-12-2016, 08:25 AM
Perhaps there could be some hotkey combination that would allow cursor movement and highlight the object that WOULD be selected if the mouse button (LMB or MMB) were pressed. For example, perhaps holding down the ALT key and then moving the cursor around (with no button pressed so not rotating the view) would highlight the object / camera / light that would be selected if the LMB or MMB were pressed at any particular position.

Personally, I run without LMB selection enabled and use Scene Editor selection quite a bit. BTW, it'd be nice if CTRL-F1 would *toggle* the Scene Editor on and off like the other panels, retaining position setup when re-instated.

mTp

jasonwestmas
02-12-2016, 09:28 AM
MMB is unfortunately a bit imprecise. It doesn't always select what you expect. Which is why I use the schematic.

yeah probably should be revisited if LW is to have a more modern appeal. I can't think of anyone who had said that they love how we can select things so fun and easily in Layout. Same for the manipulators.

squarewulf
02-12-2016, 10:42 AM
Two monitors. Scene editor on one.
I have 3 monitors, usually graph/scene on one, modeler on the other, and layout on one.

MMB is great for lassoing a bunch of items, sometimes i'll do it to 'narrow down' my search by lassoing an area then fine tuning my selection with scene editor.

I never thought to use schematic, i'll start playing around with that.

THIBAULT
02-12-2016, 11:02 AM
Same here ! 3 monitors and it's very good ! Modeler windows setting to the left, Layout windows setting to the right and principals windows Layout and Modeler to the center.
Agree for select tool but not only ! Registration and setting the scale of the background images in the backdrop of the Display Options modeler appear , then disappear, then changes size . It's exhausting ! And no snapping evolved system. (Thanks LWCAD )

I think before offering great things evolved , it would ensure the fundamental ... to keep its users.

132390

Surrealist.
02-12-2016, 12:46 PM
yeah probably should be revisited if LW is to have a more modern appeal. I can't think of anyone who had said that they love how we can select things so fun and easily in Layout. Same for the manipulators.

Yeah maybe not my biggest complaint about Layout. But it is up there.

Here's to hoping that the new Geo Engine is the end of excuses that things like this can not be updated. ;)

It is after all, at times, the little things. :)

jasonwestmas
02-12-2016, 01:02 PM
Yeah maybe not my biggest complaint about Layout. But it is up there.

Here's to hoping that the new Geo Engine is the end of excuses that things like this can not be updated. ;)

It is after all, at times, the little things. :)

Agreed. Even the cameras could be improved in a few ways but those I have heard people say they absolutely love. Not so with selecting objects and overall scene management.

Surrealist.
02-13-2016, 03:01 AM
Yeah it is all of the interface things that are stuck in the past, which annoy me the most. The technology I can understand. It is what it is.

But it is harder to grasp for instance why a manipulator has changed so little. Or any of the other things in the interface that could be improved more profoundly. If this was all based on old code, I wounder if the devs care to chime in on the interface design and if it too will get a replacement code to do more things. I Imagine the Geo Engine has little to do with it. I guess that is just hopeful wishful thinking that it would. ;)

MonroePoteet
02-13-2016, 08:19 AM
As I suggested earlier, I think the existing code could be used to highlight the object that WOULD be selected by holding down, say, the CTRL key while moving the cursor around with no button pressed. That'd be better than ALT (as I suggested earlier), since CTRL is used to add / remove individual items to the selection list. So, you hold down the CTRL key, move the mouse around, and as the selection code detects the "bounding box" or whatever it uses to determine the "current object", that object would be highlighted with a different color / style than the objects that are selected.

RE: the backdrop images in Modeler, that's always been implemented (in what I consider to be) incorrectly. The correct implementation isn't to tie them to a "pane" (e.g. Upper Left), but to a "view" (e.g. Top). So, you'd set up a backdrop image for "Top", and "Right", and "Back" and any other view you wanted, and then whichever "pane" that view was displayed in would show the appropriate backdrop without further action. *Preferably*, the backdrop settings would be saved with the model somehow.

mTp