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Dillon
02-04-2016, 02:34 PM
Been harping on this for over a year now. I really really hope that LW3D Group and NewTek are watching/listening and making moves to go this route. This is going to cause a tsunami of new artists to enter the medium of creating in 3D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKO9fEjNiio&feature=share
UNREAL GAME ENGINE game creation within VR

mummyman
02-04-2016, 02:38 PM
Wow! Just... WOW!

Zerowaitstate
02-04-2016, 03:58 PM
Been harping on this for over a year now. I really really hope that LW3D Group and NewTek are watching/listening and making moves to go this route. This is going to cause a tsunami of new artists to enter the medium of creating in 3D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKO9fEjNiio&feature=share
UNREAL GAME ENGINE game creation within VR

full stream more details

http://www.twitch.tv/unrealengine/v/40386935

I keep on harping on about this ...... who ever masters the access to the granular control the current 3d apps provide will rule the roost.

Dillon
02-04-2016, 04:00 PM
full stream more details

http://www.twitch.tv/unrealengine/v/40386935

I keep on harping on about this ...... who ever masters the access to the granular control the current 3d apps provide will rule the roost.

Yes, absolutely! VR is going to be completely transformative to 3D content generation. I'm rooting for LW to come out with a huge bang.

There's a huge amount of traditional medium artists that are not technically savvy enough to be able to create assets using a mouse and keyboard. However, they will be unleashed to create with their hands and eyes (like traditional media).

spherical
02-04-2016, 10:06 PM
Which is what I suggested to Chilton in post #2 of his UberCam and the Future of VR thread:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?149584-Ubercam-and-the-Future-of-VR&p=1463768&viewfull=1#post1463768

We need a way to move and modify stuff in the VR display environment.

Zerowaitstate
02-05-2016, 06:06 AM
more vr cration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHnA7EgX2p4

pinkmouse
02-05-2016, 07:12 AM
more vr cration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHnA7EgX2p4

Hmm. How to make ugly geometry half as fast and with way more expenditure of effort than working at a mouse and keyboard.

MonroePoteet
02-05-2016, 09:41 AM
I'll stick to the mouse and keyboard myself, since that's what I'm used to. I can understand trying to adopt computer inputs to the native motions of the human creator. The video shown is more what I'd call "Clip Art" creation than content creation, i.e. he's "top of the food chain" in terms of having huge amounts of menu-accessible items to drag-n-drop. I didn't see a stone chisel and hammer on the menus for actually *creating* the stone columns he was tossing around. :)

Of course, even a stone cutter might appreciate less effort than required in physical reality to create their artifacts. Computers *are* supposed to be a "labor saving device". Having to spend a few hours whacking a virtual hammer against a virtual chisel to create content might not be where we want to go. Again: :)

mTp

squarewulf
02-05-2016, 11:11 AM
I'll stick to the mouse and keyboard myself


I will too. This would be a good tool to maybe rough out some organic settings, like wooded areas. It seems to lack the precision you get with proper peripherals. Maybe if they could somehow merge the two into one immersive UI.

SteveH
02-05-2016, 11:25 AM
Granted this shows early early possibilities. Of something that might be a tool down the road - but right now it looks unusable. I can paint a house using a hammer as a brush - but that doesn't mean it's worth doing right?

mummyman
02-05-2016, 12:25 PM
Ha

ConjureBunny
02-05-2016, 01:10 PM
We experimented (heavily) at MergeVR with this, and found it... lacking.

The problem is we just don't have the same fidelity with this technique that we have with a keyboard and mouse at the moment.

Now, being able to look at your model and work with it is obviously where I'd like to be right now. That's one reason I wrote that Oculus Rift viewport system for Ubercam. The problem is that the pipeline is still clunky. It'll get there though. Probably this year :)

-Chilton

Danner
02-06-2016, 06:25 AM
We will all switch to full VR editing faster than you think if the interface and manipulation tools get to be good enough. Well some people won't switch, but we can always count on those too =).

Zerowaitstate
02-06-2016, 07:15 AM
We experimented (heavily) at MergeVR with this, and found it... lacking.

The problem is we just don't have the same fidelity with this technique that we have with a keyboard and mouse at the moment.

Now, being able to look at your model and work with it is obviously where I'd like to be right now. That's one reason I wrote that Oculus Rift viewport system for Ubercam. The problem is that the pipeline is still clunky. It'll get there though. Probably this year :)

-Chilton

Keep up the good work, i heve been in IT for 25 years , and feel VR is going to be huge, obviously there is a lot to be learnt about UI and the execution of complex interaction we have to start some where, may be we need to see how magic leap pans out.

Dillon
02-06-2016, 08:31 AM
This x 1000 !

It seems that only those who have extensive history in IT, and a deep understanding of 3D content generation can see how immensely VR will impact all of us.

It is true, VR will completely transform how we interface with our computers & the internet. Just like how the mouse completely transformed how we interface with the computer, VR will completely transform how we interface with the computer all over again, but have a much more profound and deeper impact on humanity. Because, this time, we'll be transforming how we interact with information itself.

One cannot get across how important depth perception is, or having direct control over one's perceived (vr) environment. Productivity is going to skyrocket once all the tools for developing in VR mature.

Correction - productivity is going to climb into a warp drive and jump into light speed, once all the tools for developing in VR mature.



Keep up the good work, i heve been in IT for 25 years , and feel VR is going to be huge, obviously there is a lot to be learnt about UI and the execution of complex interaction we have to start some where, may be we need to see how magic leap pans out.

MonroePoteet
02-06-2016, 04:13 PM
Well, I've been a professional software engineer for 22 years, another 20 years as a serious hobbyist, and about 20 years of experience in 3D content creation. So, I don't think "extensive history in IT, and a deep understanding of 3D content generation" is the necessary perspective here. I certainly have enough experience to tell the difference between a Production Tool and a Cool Gadget. Thankfully, LW has kept their interface as a Production Tool, and I hope they don't spend even one minute implementing VR interfaces.

Currently, I can access every menu item and the entire interface in LW by moving my hand / wrist a maximum of 4cm (measured). I can change views, zoom, rotate, move the perspectives with a few hotkeys and small mouse movements. I can modify the menus to suit my needs. I have a keyboard with dozens of hotkeys in fixed locations I can access tools, change viewpoints, enter information and modify tool behavior, usually without looking, or at most a glance.

Sure, a real-time, GPU-enabled, stereo-capable version of VPR with HD headset capability for both Modeler and Layout would be welcome. But, waving my hands around and twisting my head to-and-fro to access the incredibly detailed complexity of the LW interface? No thanks. I think after a few hours / days / weeks of that in a production environment and any serious 3D content creator would BEG for a small-motion mouse and a rich hotkey keyboard back.

mTp

Zerowaitstate
02-07-2016, 12:13 AM
Well, I've been a professional software engineer for 22 years, another 20 years as a serious hobbyist, and about 20 years of experience in 3D content creation. So, I don't think "extensive history in IT, and a deep understanding of 3D content generation" is the necessary perspective here. I certainly have enough experience to tell the difference between a Production Tool and a Cool Gadget. Thankfully, LW has kept their interface as a Production Tool, and I hope they don't spend even one minute implementing VR interfaces.

Currently, I can access every menu item and the entire interface in LW by moving my hand / wrist a maximum of 4cm (measured). I can change views, zoom, rotate, move the perspectives with a few hotkeys and small mouse movements. I can modify the menus to suit my needs. I have a keyboard with dozens of hotkeys in fixed locations I can access tools, change viewpoints, enter information and modify tool behavior, usually without looking, or at most a glance.

Sure, a real-time, GPU-enabled, stereo-capable version of VPR with HD headset capability for both Modeler and Layout would be welcome. But, waving my hands around and twisting my head to-and-fro to access the incredibly detailed complexity of the LW interface? No thanks. I think after a few hours / days / weeks of that in a production environment and any serious 3D content creator would BEG for a small-motion mouse and a rich hotkey keyboard back.

mTp

I take you point on board the mouse and KB offer super human navigation / fine control, and i see that minority report type interface would be come tiresome really quickly. How ever when in rift / hmd you cant see the KB, and if you hands have controllers in them then, they need to be put down before using KB.

The in VR interfaces have a long way to go before they can compete. probably the file formats that can carry VR centric information are yet to be devised

I think with sub mm accuracy, multiple analogue buttons / triggers etc ... and i dont know rotating the wrist could be could be an efficient means to select tools and enter values etc. There is also the advantage that one might, with hand motion controllers "as a pupetter might" be able to set paths or motions precisely as you want is as you could record a motion (with a mouse you are very much stuck in a 2d Plane)

This is the key challenge, accessing incredible granular detail that can be brought to bear in asset creation in an intuitive way

I see VR where is a real sense is where the mouse was at xerox parks labs. we have moved from the CLI to WIMP > we need to get to WIWIG of VR, we finally have the computing power to drive photons into the eyeball fast enough that we dont barf.

What we need to do now is move away from Windows Icon Mouse paradigm. I would love to see what Kias Kraus would make of this stuff.

MonroePoteet
02-07-2016, 12:49 PM
Your point on capturing a motion path is well taken. Hopefully the Kinect (or other spatial sensor) and NevronMotion can do this even now in the (IMO) limited applications for that technique. Motion Capture to animate characters is an awesome advance!

RE: "asset creation in an intuitive way", I have done, and still do quite a few real-world "asset creation" activities, including modeling with clay, painting (oil, acrylic and watercolor), wood-working, model making, CNC milling, cooking, videography (now with a drone!), playing keyboard instruments, etc. Every single one of them has a completely separate set of motions, rules, and techniques which require learning, and they often require learning a LOT and spending a lot of time practicing. So, IMO, even when VR interfaces become a realistic alternative, exactly whose "intuitive way" would be applicable?

For example, would a VR operator be required to learn about real-world wood working tools and techniques in order to shape things out of wood in VR? I think not. Would a VR operator be required to manually move rocks from a central pile where they were dumped to spots in the landscape, one at a time? How about use a virtual hammer and chisel to shape stone? Again, I think not. I think the VR environment will have an extensive toolchest of high-efficiency digital tools (like LW has now), which will require the VR operator to learn about each one, know how to access them, know what their options and limitations are, etc. Thus, it won't be intuitive at all to anyone. It will still require a learning curve, and probably a fairly steep one to become effective and efficient.

I don't think we'll ever achieve the "Harry Potter Magic Wand" approach to content creation, where the user waves a wand, says "abra-ca-dabra" and the artifact in their mind appears by magic. It'll always take learning how to use the tools and techniques for the particular type of content creation, real or virtual. And, finally, if a VR interface will still have a fairly extensive learning curve, why not learn the existing LW interfaces and use them efficiently?

mTp

SteveH
02-07-2016, 02:07 PM
I believe the Harry Potter Magic Wand is a plug in available for the current version of Max - but I've heard it's buggy as hell...;D

MonroePoteet
02-07-2016, 03:41 PM
:D