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ruud
01-14-2016, 01:58 AM
Hi, we all know that it's hard to create long hair with fiberFX, now the tool is much better than many of us might think, only it's timeconsuming to create the hairstyle you're after.

So I thought... what if we all share our best results with FiberFX so we can improve ourselves and the tool.
Here's my result of long hair, scene and object is attached.

Modeling and rendering in LightWave 2015.3

131879131880

131881

If you appreciate this I'd like to ask you to share your own best results!


Regards,

prometheus
01-14-2016, 03:56 AM
I prefer I girl head without hair..like sinead o connor or something, rather than a hair without a head.:D

That is very good by the way...havenīt checked the files though, but thanks for sharing.

will not jump in to the sharing though, since I donīt use it that much, and I will probably await for whatīs up with the improvements in lw 2016.
hope some others jump in though.

hrgiger
01-14-2016, 05:49 AM
Yeah I've pretty much given up on getting usable results with it. Hoping having it made into an actual raytraced primitive and the new hair shader in 2016 will change my mind.

Oldcode
01-14-2016, 05:51 PM
Fantastic! :D

Spinland
01-14-2016, 07:06 PM
Very nice. I use the tool often but for shorter hair and fur effects. My stuff would be ordinary and boring.

Very much looking forward to seeing where NewTek takes this tech.

djwaterman
01-14-2016, 09:58 PM
Yeah, I'm sorry, I mean I can see the hard work and talent that has gone into it but I remain unconvinced by any of the FiberFX results I've ever seen, This is hair that can't ever be lit to match actual lighting and therefore it will always compromise the final image.

prometheus
01-14-2016, 10:35 PM
the hair sample from ruud is pretty good, for dark hair the shading comes out pretty ok, itīs not perfect and misses some highlight spec or depth in thair.
there is also some hard angles on the back part of som curl guides, hair is never bent in curls in straight lines, so it may need more guide smoothness, that is the foremost eye impact that says it
isnīt a real hair,( apart from the missing face) the shading is the nr two that might reveal it as cg hair, but it isnīt as prominent I think as the sharpe angled guides.

That all aside..it is a good sample.

Oldcode
01-15-2016, 11:40 AM
Hi Ruud!

Thank you very much for doing this. You've inspired me to try again with this. Although FiberFx has got its problems and I do hope 2016 will bring improvements, This gives me hope I can use what you've shown to improve things in my work flow. I'm one of those poor smucks that uses Poser to animate my characters and bring them into Lightwave. After a lot of trail and error, I've finally found way to bring an poser animated character into Lightwave and be able to apply the dynamic hair and have it animate.

The only question is the styling. I've got some ideas on how to get the style I want, but I'm still confused on once you have your guide hairs how you use it to control the length and curves. I know you copy your guide hairs to another layers in your character object, but where in FiberFx do you tell it to use them?

Thanks in advance,

jboudreau
01-15-2016, 12:28 PM
The only question is the styling. I've got some ideas on how to get the style I want, but I'm still confused on once you have your guide hairs how you use it to control the length and curves. I know you copy your guide hairs to another layers in your character object, but where in FiberFx do you tell it to use them?

Thanks in advance,

Hi

All you need to do is choose your guide object layer, activate FiberFX, Choose the guides object layer in the object list and choose activate, The Fibers will follow the guides. Set your Guide Radius to 0, fiber smooth to 4 and the fiber kink to 0% if you want the fibers to follow the guides exactly.

I also go under the object properties of the guide layer and add a custom object Show Curves, This allows you to see your guides in layout. If you go back into the FiberFX panel and turn on the eyeball (OpenGL Preview) you will see the Fibers are following the guides exactly

Hope this helps

Thanks,
Jason

Oldcode
01-15-2016, 02:33 PM
Thanks Jason, :D

That helps a lot. I fiddle with a it a little but only had so much time. I'll try again when I get home. I'll take Ruud's hair guides and scale them to fit on the V4 poser character and see if I can't get the hair to move well when she walks.

Wish me luck!

jasonwestmas
01-15-2016, 02:36 PM
That's pretty good for FFX hair.

The poor shading quality of FFX compared to other hair shaders I've seen is what turns me off. Often FFX spec is waaay too soft/ blurry and doesn't have much detail.

erikals
01-16-2016, 12:40 AM
The poor shading quality of FFX compared to other hair shaders I've seen is what turns me off.

yes, hopefully this will be fixed in 2016 with FiberFX reacting to Rays

for now all we have is post, still, i've seen plenty of mediocre Maya hair renders

LightWave post work, using layer modes (such as screen, overlay, color dodge...)

131914


wonder if FiberFX can be tweaked via DPont's tools?...

erikals
01-16-2016, 01:06 AM
some PhotoShop tweaks...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izk8ysukBnI


subnote;
never got the time to check, but if this could be done using DPont's nodes inside LW it would be of big help

ruud
01-16-2016, 04:10 AM
Hi and thanks for thinking along.

The reason I posted a long hair example is because it's the most difficult to accomplish in any 3D package, I've been amazed by what other programs can do as well but I also see artists having the same trouble we're having in LW to create fine hair results (look at some game trailers or stills that are made in Maya, Max, C4D etc.

Sure there are some great examples of moving hair where we see the hairs really react to eachother, but that's almost every time a third-party, never in package, like fluid simulations, fire, water, fur is also a complex dynamic system.

That having said, I still disagree with a lot of you guys that FiberFX isn't competing with the other packages out there, the stability is awsome and with the right touch everything is possible.

My example is only 1 layer, with 1 layer of FFX added to it, so I didn't even stretch the tool to it's maximum of it's capabilities. What if I were using multiple layers, with loose fibers on the one, and some brighter strains on the other. After all, Maya and Max aren't working in 1 layered setting also, and often post is used to finalize the scene.

So, my result is just the beginning of what it could be, and I chalenge you to improve it, so we all can benefit.

The highlights in FFX are also quite good in my opinion, I don't want it to be too shiny because it will get a wet-look or dirty look, nice in a rain scene though...

The lighting is also pretty good, if you've looked at the scene you can add and change lights the way you want without compromising the FFX, indeed when you crank lights up to 1.000 % (for a nice backlight) or something the fur won't hold, but it wouln't in the real world also (standing close to the sun :-)) but then again, you always have the possibility of excluding FFX from that particular light, making lights for your character, lights for your background / surroundings, lights for fur and even lights especially for hypervoxels... well, that's how I build up a shot.

After all, in live action film it's being done exactly the same (flagging out parts of a scene with light)

We all want photoreal results right out of the box, well, none of the movies we like are done that way, it always includes post production.

At last, THANKS for the discussion, and I really hope we can create some nice setups here for everyone to download and use, and ofcourse the new 2016 release is something to look forward to, but I bet that the same rules apply to the new version.

Let's see some more!
thanks!

djwaterman
01-16-2016, 04:49 AM
True up to a point, as far as I understand it, FFX hair don't use reflectivity but fake the highlights with specular, so it's a false model that will never look real. It's a limitation I can't live with, so I just avoid hair or fibers totally and waiting for this next release to solve all this. It's too frustrating to put all that work into styling the hair if it can never look real in the end, you can hit it with all the filtering you want but these are just ways of hiding a problem.

For NPR character work it's pretty good though.

hrgiger
01-16-2016, 07:15 AM
That having said, I still disagree with a lot of you guys that FiberFX isn't competing with the other packages out there, the stability is awsome and with the right touch everything is possible.

thanks!
Hi Ruud. It's not even about the tools for me, I style my hair guides in Zbrush so no need for editing guides in Lightwave. Unfortunately I think fiberfx does not look good and it's too difficult for most people to get decent or predictable results. Even with sasquatches limitations, it produced very usable results even with default settings and certainly resulted in something that more approximated hair then ffx does. I also don't feel that ffx responds to lighting in a realistic way. I am really hoping that this is much better in 2016 when we are rendering actual render geometry instead of a pixel filter or volumetric.

But just for the sake of the discussion, I have a thing I'm working on at the moment so maybe later this week I can post some renders with ffx if I get some time. Have a deadline coming up but I will try.

jasonwestmas
01-16-2016, 07:59 AM
you'll get radically different results with the FFX shader and shadow settings using different light types which isn't suppose to happen in a physically accurate context. If you are making semi real toon stuff, I guess ffx could work out in some cases. I think the PBR rendering may help narrow down the complexity for setting up the shading. But the rest is up to designing a physically accurate shader solution.

erikals
01-16-2016, 08:21 AM
I don't want it to be too shiny because it will get a wet-look or dirty look, nice in a rain scene though...

this varies quite a lot.
- younger people often have more shiny hair
- artificial colored hair can get very shiny
- Afro hair is not shiney
- treated Afro hair can be Very shiny
- Chinese have natural Very shiny hair
- and of course, hair with oil, water, gel
- light setup / surroundings

https://www.google.no/search?hl=no&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1674&bih=1071&q=shiny+hair+montage&oq=shiny+hair+montage&gs_l=img.3...1167.6906.0.7259.18.12.0.6.1.0.143.11 11.9j3.12.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.12.1037.wBdFAVn 5TuM#hl=no&tbm=isch&q=shiny+hair+people

beer also gives you shiny hair, as of B vitamins

http://erikalstad.com/emoti/homer-96.jpg

erikals
01-16-2016, 08:40 AM
by the way, thank You for sharing! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif

haven't got the time this weekend i think, but some proposed tweaks >

http://erikalstad.com/cgtemp/proposed-tweaks.png


this said, i think this render is pretty good, not perfect due FFX limits. but very good (!)

erikals
01-16-2016, 09:14 AM
there is also FiberFX for Octane that renders better / much faster
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?147449-Fiber-FX-Example

not trying to derail from LW FiberFX, but worth a mention

Oldcode
01-16-2016, 11:01 AM
Yeah, the renders look really good. With dynamic movement in an animation, it would look great! Ruud's hair unfortunately I can't use. The shape of the head he used is too different from model I'm using, so I'm just going to start mine from scratch.

Here's a picture of the V4 model from DAZ with the Radiant Jaguar Hair model. I'm brought both of them into LW Modeler where I use the hair model as a guide to make my hair guides for FiberFx and/or Sasquatch.

Here's a quick picture in Modeler. I've separated the locks of hair to different layers so I can use them to trace out my hair guide curves. I hope to copy all the guides into a single layer and then use them with FiberFx. It's turning into a lot of work, but if it does work, I can duplicate any hair model that's already out there and make it dynamic.

jboudreau
01-16-2016, 04:41 PM
Hi Ruud

Thanks for posting the scene, it looks great, I made a few adjustments to the FiberFX settings in your scene. I think it makes a big differences especially with highlights in the hair. Let me know what you guys think.

The changes I made are the following

Clusters 5 instead of 10
Self Shadow 40% instead of 100%
Cast Shadow 40% instead of 2%

131917131918

Thanks,
Jason

prometheus
01-17-2016, 08:23 AM
Canīt resist...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBYPfzjGXpI

so once we got the hair quality in order, how do we instance a group of dudes or girls swaying their hairs? :D...that is a challenge.

Oldcode
01-17-2016, 04:25 PM
Hey guys,

Here's some progress on creating the hair guides from my other hair model. I'm going to put in about 30 guides, and have done about 12 so far. You can already see its starting to look like the original hair model. Can't wait to try it out! :D

djwaterman
01-17-2016, 06:29 PM
Canīt resist...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozQ8qLMKW_s

so once we got the hair quality in order, how do we instance a group of dudes or girls swaying their hairs? :D...that is a challenge.

Ah yes, corrected with a superior version.

Oldcode
01-28-2016, 08:39 PM
Hey Everybody,

In the spirit of sharing, here is the guides I created by tracing out the Radiant Jaguar Hair from DAZ. When I use FiberFx, I get pretty decent results. My only problem is I can't get dynamics to affect the guides.

I've tried both ClothFx and Bullet, but hair strands are totally unaffected. I think I skipped the step where you use the first point in the hair guide as an anchor point. Can anybody explain how I make my anchor points? I think it involves copying the hair to a second layer and deleting all first point in each line, but I'm not sure.

Thanks, and I hope somebody finds my hair model useful.

ruud
01-29-2016, 01:53 AM
Hi Oldcode and thanks for sharing, for your problem, just hit strandmaker and you have your 1point polys in place ;-)
Do you also have a scenefile with the FBX settings?

For dynamics, keep your splines, and use the strandmaker result to add dynamics. Then you parent your splines to the strandmaker (in Layout) and add Metalink (Objects/Deform tab) to the splines. Now the splines will follow your dynamic guides. This can also be done with a lot less strands than your splines layer, Layout then just follows the nearest points.

Looking forward to your results!

Oldcode
01-29-2016, 08:08 AM
Thanks Ruud! :) I had no idea what the tool was called. Thanks to you, I was able to find a a couple of YouTube videos that explained the basics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqtDyMrz7O4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spKiYp9x-pQ

I'll give it another try tonight.

Oldcode
01-31-2016, 11:17 AM
Hey Ruud,

Thanks again for the info. I tried following your directions but I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Would you mind taking a look?

Thanks in advance,


132142

132143

jboudreau
02-01-2016, 02:21 PM
Hey Ruud,

Thanks again for the info. I tried following your directions but I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Would you mind taking a look?

Thanks in advance,

Hi Oldcode

Here is a scene file with your hair guides using bullet dynamics. Hope this helps.

132160

Thanks,
Jason

Oldcode
02-02-2016, 07:48 AM
Hey Jason,

Thanks a lot. I've taken a look and the hair reacts very well! :) But in looking at your scene file, I can't seem to figure out how you did it. Can you explain what steps you took to get the hair to react the the dynamics? I take it that layer 3 is the splines, and the other layer is the strandmaker curves, but I don't see any of the settings that Ruud talked about such as parenting or Metalink.

Also, I noticed that when you took my hair and copied it to layer 3, you made it bigger. Much bigger! Was that necessary to get the dynamics to work, or just work better? I know that bigger is sometimes better with different kinds of dynamics, such as Real Flow for liquids. I need to know because I'll have to scale up my scene to match the hair.

Thanks again! :D

ConjureBunny
02-02-2016, 08:51 AM
Hi,

This was a character a client wanted for one of their poker games. This was a toy they had been given years ago by the daughter of an old friend of theirs, and they wanted it immortalized.

FiberFX crashed like mad while I was working on it, but as I recall, all of the bugs I filed against FiberFX were fixed around the time I finished the render. And I did find my way around the crashing issues while I was building it. This was with an early version of 11.x on a Mac.

I gotta say, the final render is *perfect*. This looks just like the weird little doll on their table, down to the shiny, oily, old hair.

132169

-Chilton

jboudreau
02-02-2016, 09:54 AM
Hey Jason,

Thanks a lot. I've taken a look and the hair reacts very well! :) But in looking at your scene file, I can't seem to figure out how you did it. Can you explain what steps you took to get the hair to react the the dynamics? I take it that layer 3 is the splines, and the other layer is the strandmaker curves, but I don't see any of the settings that Ruud talked about such as parenting or Metalink.

Hi Oldcode

No problem, Their were a few issues with your scene. No it wasn't necessary to make it bigger. i just did that because you were in a 20mm grid size. I wanted to make it a 1m grid size that's all. It has no effect on if dynamics will work or not. I do find that dynamics works better if you use an object that's a lot bigger. Using the 1m grid size works well

All you have to do is the following steps

- First I opened up your model and changed the layer names so I knew which layer was the spline guides and which one was the 2 point poly chains (which is the one you want to use)
- Now open your scene and choose the 2 point poly chain object, you can hide the spline guide object
- First go to the object/properties/FX tab and remove clothFX
- make sure you have the 2 point poly chain object selected, now under the FX Tools tab to menu under bullet click on item properties

Bullet Settings Panel

- now choose edit and click on add from layout selected
- change the type to deforming
- collision margin = 5mm
- Mass Distribution = Vertices
- Density = .2
- Shape Retension = Gradient Texture Map (Click on the T)

Texture Editor Panel
- layer Type = Gradient
- Input Parameter = Weight Map
- Weight Map = strand_weightmap
- click anywhere in the gradient adding one
- Value = 1%
- Parameter = 100%
- close the texture editor

Bullet Settings Panel

- Shape lock = Translation and Rotation
- Linear Stiffness = 50%
- Angular Stiffness = 1.0%
- Damping Coefficient = 3.0%
- Volume Scalling = 100%
- Volume Conservation = 0%
- Friction = 50%

That should do it, You can adjust the settings as you like. The setting above work best with the hair guides that I scaled up to the 1m grid size

Hope this helps
Thanks,
Jason

Oldcode
02-02-2016, 10:19 AM
Hey Jason,

Thanks a lot. I'll give that a try. One last stupid Question...

Is it possible to parent the 2 point poly chain object to another object, like a skull cap geometry?

Thanks again,

OC

jboudreau
02-02-2016, 10:36 AM
Hey Jason,

Thanks a lot. I'll give that a try. One last stupid Question...

Is it possible to parent the 2 point poly chain object to another object, like a skull cap geometry?

Thanks again,

OC

Absolutely, Just take your skull cap and link it to your 2 point poly chain object. Select the Skull Cap and set it to a kinematic body under the FX Tools/Bullet.Your skull cap should now follow your hair guides.

On another note I would do the opposite though. I would link the 2 Point Poly chain to the skull cap, Set the skull Cap to kinematic body and animate the skull cap moving around. The 2 point poly chains should follow.
Turn off Enable Dynamics so you can animated the Skull Cap this way it won't recalcuate the dynamics as you try and animate, Then once the animation is done turn it back on to view the dynamics. Remember to reset the dyamics after animation. I explain how to do this below.

You could also add a null object, link the 2 point polygon chain to the skull cap and then link the skull cap to the null. Set the skull cap to kinematic Body, turn off Enable Dynamics and animated the null. Turn on Dynamics to see the result. If you have to continue animating turn off Dynamics first. Make your changes to the animation and then turn on Dyamics. To see the new animation with Dynamics you need to go into the bullet properties and click on reset. This will reset the dynamics so it will now recalculate to include the new animation. If you don't reset you might see some messed up dynamics where you added the new animation.

Here is a scene of the above procedure

132173

Hope this helps
Thanks,
Jason

Oldcode
02-02-2016, 11:38 AM
Cool! Thank you again! :D Now that makes me wonder, instead of fixing the 2 point poly chains to the skull cap, could I use this same technique to character's head directly?

Thanks.

jboudreau
02-02-2016, 11:45 AM
Cool! Thank you again! :D Now that makes me wonder, instead of fixing the 2 point poly chains to the skull cap, could I use this same technique to character's head directly?

Thanks.

Yes, that way the hair will collide with the side of the face, forehead, neck etc.

Thanks,
Jason

Greenlaw
02-02-2016, 12:29 PM
For collision, you'll probably want to make a copy of just the head and use that as a hidden Kinematic object. For best results, be sure to seal the geometry at the neck and eye sockets if they're open. FYI, I prefer to use a lower res proxy for my collision objects to speed up calculations.

Technically, you can use deforming geometry for collision but it will be painfully slow to work with and the result may be only marginally better. The time difference in using a parented/Kinematic proxy object for collision can be a couple of minutes vs. hours, so deforming collision usually isn't practical for real production work.

G.

Oldcode
02-02-2016, 01:44 PM
Thanks Jason, and Thanks to you Greenlaw,

The idea for a proxy has got me really excited. Since I import poser figures into Lightwave via PoserFusion, I didn't think I'd be able to use a proxy mesh, but when you mentioned it, I remembered I have a poser figure that is designed for just this very purpose.

Poser has its own dynamic hair system, but its the only significant part of a poser scene that PoserFusion can't import into Lightwave. Somebody came out with a figure that fits over the main figure's head and is used as proxy for poser hair collisions. Although the dynamic hair can't be imported, the proxy head can, so I'll just add that to my poser scene and parent the 2 point poly object to that, making it invisible for rendering, but it should make the hair bullet dynamics go much faster!

Can't wait to get home to try it! :D

wellsichris
02-02-2016, 04:10 PM
So I decided to take a minute and just try shading and lighting this hair in Octane.

Greenlaw
02-02-2016, 06:16 PM
That's pretty neat.

Funny, I've had Octane for LightWave in my computer for years but didn't bother with it because my graphics card was too under-powered to make it practical. Then last summer I finally upgraded the card to speed up mocap processing but I totally spaced out on the fact that I can now use Octane too. Duh. :)

Guess I need to check it out this weekend.

G.

Oldcode
02-02-2016, 07:33 PM
Hey Chilton,

That's a cute little thing you've got there, not sure what it is, but its cute! :)

That's a really cool looking image of the hair Wellsichris! Wish I could get Octane, but I really should get that little operation for the wife. ;)

Jason,

Thanks again. I looked at your files and tried to get it to work. The only problem I ran into was when I used the skull cap that I created from the poser figure's head, some of the hairs were bouncing around like crazy. Only when I did not use the skull cap as a collision object did the problem go away. I'm hoping that the proxy mesh will work better because its really low poly compared to the skull cap. That's why most of you guys who do Lightwave create and rig your own characters rather than something like moving poser figures which are way too poly heavy sometimes.

Anyway, check out that I was able to do.

Still a long way to go before I can get it to work on a poser figure, but I've made tremendous progress thanks to this tread! :D

Thanks everybody!

erikals
02-03-2016, 12:54 AM
Chris... ... ...that looks Awesome!  http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132178&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1454454461

scratch33
02-03-2016, 05:52 AM
Hi,

Just a little quick test using octane in lightwave.
Must render a little bit more to avoid noise(only 20 sec/frame), and the youtube compression is poor on this but the result is not bad.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZOwfY4bWqY

maxi3dcp
02-03-2016, 05:37 PM
The render is linear, switch to sRGB

Oldcode
02-03-2016, 08:09 PM
Hey Everyone,

Got another conundrum. Is there are way to attach the hair guide object to a certain part of a morphing geometry so the guilds will follow that part of the geometry, (namely the character's head) as the geometry changes it shape during the morph?

Thanks,

Greenlaw
02-04-2016, 09:02 AM
If you mean facial hair there are several ways to do this:

- Use FiberFX Edit Guides. The nice thing is that the roots will follow the geometry perfectly and can pick up texture from the UV maps. You can reduce the overhead by using a copy of the mesh and kill all the polygons that don't need hair--just be sure you don't kill all the points, which can help 'lock' the geometry to the original mesh you will render.

- If it's really simple, like stubble, just grow it from the surface. Kill unneeded polygons like above and use masks to control falloff.

- If you have externally modeled guides (like FiberMesh for example), you can use any of the Metalink objects, like FX Meta Link, Metalink (nodal), or DP Meta Fit. They all have strengths and advantages. I like Meta Fit but there is a long lag when you first apply it or open a file with it because that's when it does it's calculations. Once it's done, it's faster though. Before rendering, you'll want to bake to MDD and remove the plugin of course, otherwise the calc will also bog down the render. (In fact, you should bake any calc intensive task to MDD before rendering--it's a very good habit to get into if you have better things to do than sit around waiting for renders.)

- You could also just use the bones to deform the external guides. This probably won't work very well if you use Subpatched geometry though because the guides probably won't conform the the mesh exactly. (Unless you used Edit Guides.)

There are probably some other tricks I'm not thinking of at the moment. This topic comes up often so if you do a search, you should be able to find some detailed info in this forum.

G.

Oldcode
02-04-2016, 12:46 PM
Hey Greenlaw,

Thanks for the info, and the ideas. Bases on what you've told me, I'm not sure you understood my question, but based on my own research, I don't think what I want to do is even possible due to the way PoserFusion imports poser geometry and animation data.

One of William Vaughan's videos mentions the ability to take your own guides and bring them into StrandMaker to use them there. Not sure if that's what he meant or if its even possible, but it would make things a lot easier. Going to check it out tonight.

Thanks again!

Oh, I watched the one minute excerpt of the music video. It was awesome! :D

Greenlaw
02-04-2016, 01:23 PM
Thanks! The music video project has been going off and on for too long but I'm hoping to get back to it as soon as we launch our new website. (In couple of weeks if I can stay on track.)

Regarding Strand Maker, that's mainly used for converting Curves created in Modeler or imported from another program like ZBrush (FiberMesh) into FiberFX compatible guides. It creates a root point to define where the fibers should start and a weight map that can be used for dynamics and other effects.

Yeah, I'm not familiar with how Poser hair data works or how it relates to LightWave. Sorry. I guess if the data is Curves, like what comes out of ZBrush, it should work with Strand Maker. Then binding the data to your rig can be done using any of the methods mentioned above. The best option depends on how you want to animate the guides. Sometimes, depending on the hair design, even SoftFX or Inertia can do a decent job.

G.

Oldcode
02-04-2016, 06:54 PM
Hey Greenlaw,

I know your pain. I'm in the middle of finishing up a project I've been working on on and off for about two and a half years. And what am I doing instead of working on it.... Trying to figure out this hair thing for the next project. LOL

Anyway, what goes on with Poser is PoserFusion creates a Lightwave object for each figure and object in the scene, then uses Poser's poser.exe file to morph the objects according to the poser scene animation data. Let's say you have a person walking. In the poser scene, if the figure moves 20 feet, it does just that. But when you bring scene into Lightwave, the LWO object is not actually moving, its morphing to make it look like its moving. Because of this, you can't parent anything to the poser figure in Lightwave. If you try, the object you're trying to parent won't follow the movement of the character because the LWO is not moving, and the hair guides will just sit there.

The good news is I can parent a skull cap/scalp to the character's head in Poser and it will follow the figure in Ligthwave. I can use that to grow hairs that will follow the character as it morphs through its animatins, so it looks like I've going to have to figure out those styling tools in Layout FiberFx

Ugh!

Thanks for all your help.

Greenlaw
02-04-2016, 08:33 PM
Ah, okay--thanks for the explanation.

It sounds like it's not that different from working with animation data from Maya or other programs then. Typically, you would export the geometry and a Geocache or MDD file, and use that the deform the Lightwave version of the object. No bones in the character, just point displacement from the Geocache or MDD file. That was a typical workflow when I was with the Box at Rhythm & Hues. At the time, I would use ClothFX to rescan the deforming object so I could use FX Metalink to attach objects--typically, a scalp or cage object to deform hair guides. For best results, the character should be in a T-Pose at frame 0, and ideally the scalp's vertices should match the character's vertices. But if it only conforms to the general position that may be good enough--the 'metalink' technique can be surprisingly forgiving sometimes. FX Metlink still works but some users prefer to use the newere DP Metafit or the Metalink Node nowadays.

Either way, the 'metalink' technique will use the character's displacement to move and deform whatever is attached to it.

Oldcode
02-06-2016, 08:57 AM
Hey Greenlaw,

Thanks! I'm glad you understand and it seems this problem is not limited to PoserFusion. Last night, I tried various ideas such as importing my hair guides into Poser and using its Bullet and Cloth systems to try to animate the hair that way, which would then be copied to Lightwave via PoserFusion, but none of the poser tools would work.

I start my poser scenes in the T-position a lot for various reasons so I'm all set there, but I'm not having any luck with the MetaLink. Do you know of any good tutorials? The ones I've seen so far don't seem to apply to this situation.

Thanks,

Greenlaw
02-06-2016, 03:10 PM
With the old FX MetaLInk, you just need to rescan the deforming mesh with ClothFX and save an MDD. The MDD must be generated by ClothFX for FX MetaLink to work--apparently, ClothFX adds some extra data that a regular MDD lacks. So, even if you already have an MDD, you may still need to rescan it. Just to be clear, you can scan any type of deformation, whether it's by Transormations, Morphing, Bones, or Geocache or MDD. I'm not sure what Poser Fusion uses for displacment but you should be able to scan that too. The system is proven and still very reliable.

After you have the MDD, you should disable or remove whatever was moving the mesh previously--the MDD is all that's needed now.

Now you can use FX_MetaLink. To use it, parent the mesh you want to attach to the scanned mesh and apply the FX_MetaLink plugin in Displacement. For example, if it's a scalp, just parent it to the body, apply FX_MetaLink, and you're done.

This of course assumes that the scalp mesh matches the world location of the character's head while in T-Pose. It doesn't have to be a perfect point-to-point match but it helps.

Some of the newer methods are easier because they can use the standard MD Baker and MD Reader but they have some limitations. If you scan with MD_Baker, apply the motion using MD_Reader and remove whatever was animating the mesh. With this method, you don't need to parent the item you want to attach and follow but you do need to add the MetaLink node in the item's Node Editor. Double click in MetaLink and you'll see it's panel, and under Link To, just point the object you wish to attach too. Naturally, you should also remember to enable the Node Editor in the Object panel. That's pretty much it.

There is a drawback with this method, though I can't remember what it is off the top of my head. It might've had something to do with respecting subpatch geometry, like it only uses the original cage for the Metalink. Something like that. Sorry...I'm mostly typing from memory right now.

Then there's DP_Metafit, which is part of Denis Pontonnier's excellent plugins library. (If you don't already have it, get it...and make a donation! Denis' tools really are essentials.) DP_Metafit is applied the same way as the nodal Metalink except it can respect subpatching like ClothFX and FX_MetaLink, but without the need to scan a new ClothFX MDD. It has a few extra options like respecting Weightmaps and After Deformation.

The 'catch' with MetaFit is that it scan you're object automatically when you apply the plugin and when you open a scene that has the plugin applied. This is trivial with simple objects but it causes a noticeable delay with very complex geometry. Once it's done scanning, the scene should update in realtime though. What I usually do is, after getting the anim I want, I'll scan with MD_Baker, apply the MDD and then disable MetaFit to prevent it from unnecessarily rescanning the object.

Hope that helps get you started. It's really easy and straightforward after you've stepped through the process a couple of times. There's more information in the manual and if you do a search in these forums, there should be several tutorials posted in other threads.

I'll try to create and post some of my own tutorials after I get our new website up and running.

G.

Snosrap
02-06-2016, 07:37 PM
Here are my best efforts with FiberFX to date.

132246132247

Kryslin
02-06-2016, 07:59 PM
I'm still playing around with FiberFX procedural fur...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Kryslin/Renders/th_ffx_milestone_zpsizyqjgo7.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Kryslin/media/Renders/ffx_milestone_zpsizyqjgo7.jpg.html)
This was my first milestone - getting the fibers all pointing in the right direction. I'm using a bias map generated by an lScript that is still very much a work in progress, but does some excellent work regardless. The figure is Poser's Melody.

Oldcode
02-07-2016, 09:21 AM
Nice work on those pictures guys! :) The lamps look very elegant and the kitty cat is very cute.

Thanks for all the info Greenlaw,

I tried some experiments, but ClothFx keeps crashing, which is pretty common when dealing with Poser figures. They tend to be really polygon heavy. I'll try some of the other methods and see what I can come up with.

What I think we really need is the same Strand Modeler in Layout that we have in Modeler. The one in Layout is just not enough. The Stand Modeler in Modeler lets you import your own hair guides and make even better guides.

Did anybody suggest that in the LW 2016 Wish List thread?

Thanks,

hrgiger
02-07-2016, 09:49 AM
Chris Jones stopped work on his amazing human project after he couldnt produce acceptable looking hair. Really hoping for better looking ffx in 2016 and beyond.

erikals
02-07-2016, 10:53 AM
I'm still playing around with FiberFX procedural fur...
This was my first milestone - getting the fibers all pointing in the right direction. I'm using a bias map generated by an lScript that is still very much a work in progress, but does some excellent work regardless. The figure is Poser's Melody.

132258

Nice FiberFX Bias Combing (!)
any idea on price / availability ?



Chris Jones stopped work on his amazing human project after he couldnt produce acceptable looking hair. Really hoping for better looking ffx in 2016 and beyond.

FiberFX in LW2016 is rendered with GI in the new LW render engine
we'll just have to wait and see...

Kryslin
02-07-2016, 05:04 PM
Nice FiberFX Bias Combing (!)
any idea on price / availability ?

Whenever I get done with a bunch of product visualization projects I've picked up.
As for the price, probably free, with source available. I'll gladly except donations, though... :)

I do want to see what FiberFX brings in LW_Next - The possibility does exist that my script will be obsoleted by native bias combing in FFX...
but I'm not holding my breath.

erikals
09-08-2016, 03:11 PM
just played a bit with stronger light percentage, area lights, ngon lights, +more specular / gloss

a micro-tweak, but felt it gave more depth.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134396&d=1473369054

134396

prometheus
09-09-2016, 07:41 AM
yes right image looking way better.
only thing when you got thin parts and it looks too flat..as seen in one of the braids.

prometheus
09-09-2016, 09:51 AM
where is the project files on that site?
I canīt see it down at the bottom of the page where it says it should be, thought I need login, but since I wanīt a member and then tried to login, the registration process is not possible..weird.

Asticles
09-09-2016, 10:15 AM
Here are my best efforts with FiberFX to date.

132246132247

It reminds me the "Inside out" characters' skin.

erikals
09-09-2016, 02:29 PM
prometheus, wrong thread. :)

prometheus
09-10-2016, 07:31 AM
prometheus, wrong thread. :)

Yeah I noticed ..way later.:o

erikals
09-19-2016, 09:35 AM
related, creating guides manually



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAdnwBLBfHk

prometheus
09-19-2016, 10:43 AM
related, creating guides manually



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAdnwBLBfHk


I would probably just use more straight hairguides and use bullet or cloth dynamics, combined with some curl options...nice tips though, it offers exact control anyway..which can be harder with dynamics.
Or just draw some spiral curls and combine with bullet, might need a lower object resolution invisibible cage for the body to avoid slow sim times.

erikals
09-19-2016, 01:29 PM
one more...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_AwxlXmcuc



I would probably just use more straight hairguides and use bullet or cloth dynamics, combined with some curl options...nice tips though, it offers exact control anyway..which can be harder with dynamics.
Or just draw some spiral curls and combine with bullet, might need a lower object resolution invisibible cage for the body to avoid slow sim times.

i might very well get back to that...  http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/047.gif

jwiede
09-19-2016, 01:55 PM
just played a bit with stronger light percentage, area lights, ngon lights, +more specular / gloss

a micro-tweak, but felt it gave more depth.

There's something going on at the ends of your hair, which looks quite "off". Everything's narrowing down to a relatively few tufts, which is kind of the opposite of what happens in real hair (where you wind up with contiguous edges/volumes of ends of strands, instead of narrowing back into groups of tufts (hope that makes sense, if not let me know and I can try to explain further). In other words, dry hair (even with product/hairspray) doesn't normally spread out and then return back to being in tufts unless there's something physically gathering the hair at the ends. The hair as is almost looks "wet" at the ends. If you're intentionally modeling "wet" hair, then that's fine, but I didn't get the impression that was your goal. For "dry" hair, the behavior at the ends looks... well, "off" is the best way I can describe it (IMO, ofc).\

Perhaps as another, better way of explaining the issue: The volume of hair shown around the middle of the strands appears much greater than the volume of hair towards the end of the strands, which doesn't make sense -- the area occupied by all the strands in the middle, lacking something physically gathering the hair (explicit knots/braids, or whatever) should be the same as the area occupied by the ends of the strands.

What's occurring kind of looks as though towards the ends of the strands, more and more strands spatially overlap until there's only a few strands-worth (but with a bunch of strands occupying each strand's space). If you don't understand what I mean, let me know, and I can make a few quick diagrams to show the problem.

No idea how to fix in FFX, but wanted to at least make you aware of it, in case you weren't. Hope that helps!

prometheus
09-19-2016, 02:04 PM
I will get back on showcasing the blender hair to lightwave later..but not until the weekend I think.
Thanks for the tips erikals.

erikals
09-19-2016, 02:12 PM
jwiede, thanks, yes, that might very well be. focused on the shading only. but notes taken. http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

prometheus, u welcome!
cool. 5 days to wait ha? http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif looking forward to the preview. http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

prometheus
09-19-2016, 02:14 PM
jwiede, thanks, yes, that might very well be. focused on the shading only. but notes taken. http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

prometheus, u welcome!
cool. 5 days to wait ha? http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif looking forward to the preview. http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

Oh..sh...t, now I made a promise I have to keep :)
I am right now busy with some cleaning and some other stuff tonight and two days ahead, so I am just sporadicly posting messages ..which I donīt have time with.

erikals
09-19-2016, 02:32 PM
busy with some cleaning and some other stuff
cleaning can wait.

http://media.tasvideos.org/smbtricks/smb_walljump2.gif

prometheus
09-20-2016, 11:55 AM
cleaning can wait.


Not really, the cockroaches canīt even live in my filth:D..itīs that bad...Not:D


Just wanted to jump in with more blender suggestions, since you were projecting curves here.
If you use the grease pencil in blender you could draw directly on any surface, you have to go to grease pencil in the tool panel, draw, then data source set to object, stroke placement set to surface..when you do that the draw tool becomes inactive..so you have to click oncemore on draw, they you should be able to draw on any surface object and it projects on the surface while drawing..so that is nice.
to convert, you have the convert options under tools (beneath stroke placement) ..so tools, convert, and you will get a popup menu of path, bezier or polygon curve, I choosed polygon curve.
Then just export the file out as obj, and load to lightwave modeler, and you can select the edges, convert to poly selection and copy and paste to other layers if needed, then run px c worm if you want tubes etc...or run ume tube point etc.
for fiberfx you should not copy in polygon mode, but in edge mode.

this doesnīt take long to record..so I may pull that off tomorrow night, but itīs hockeynight tonight and still some cleaning.

Oldcode
02-09-2017, 03:25 PM
Hey Ruud and jboudreau,

In the spirit of sharing, I've attached my version of the hair you posted at the beginning of the thread. After a lot of trail by error, I managed to resize and adjust the strands in your hair to fit the V4 figure by DAZ.

135939

Here's a test movie I did with V4 walking and your hair attached. The color needs work, but I was not focused on that. I used ClothFx to animate the hair this time. I'll try using Bullet a little later. Although I think it came out pretty good, it needs more hair guides for the specific hair style, and I'm working on some base hairs that will fill in the gabs when the styling hairs bounce and move about.

135941

135940

As you can see, I finally managed to figure out how to attach the hair guides to a character animated by an MDD or other animation cache.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TKCdftEM-c

ruud
02-10-2017, 01:09 AM
Thanks for your version! You need to work on the shadow in your hair, maybe some more color variation. Maybe light the scene a bit better. Also work on a bit more variations on the end of the hair strands...

Good job

Oldcode
02-10-2017, 10:40 AM
Hey Ruud,

Thanks, but this was just to demonstrate how I was able to fix the hair to V4, and animate it. I did the dynamics with ClothFx. I'm still trying to figure out how to do the weight map for the hair so I can use Bullet.

As to the color, I used the single color of Burnt Orange instead of the mixing. I'll try to mix a better combination of colors later. I just gave the character that color quickly because she's a character in next project that has red/orange hair.

The end of the stands is all you dude! :D All I did was resize your hair object, then grabbed one strand at time and moved them to better cover the head. Except where the end of the strand was passing through the girl's shoulders, I left it alone.

ruud
02-13-2017, 01:09 AM
I found that ClothFx worked best for me, I didn't get a result with bullet, also when animating a scene I prefer to calculate the ClothFX and save the file, this way the scene is 'locked' and I can rely on getting the same looks every time I reopen the scene.

Kryslin
02-13-2017, 01:33 AM
You might want to look at some of Greenlaw's videos on using bullet on guides; There are several settings that are important, and with one, very difficult to set up (Shape Retention, which has to be 100% at the scalp, and sloped down to a fairly low percentage at the end - the hair retains it's shape near the roots, and deforms the most at the ends. I've a character that uses Bullet Dynamics on the hair guides, I'll dig 'er out in the morning and post what my settings were.

Oldcode
02-13-2017, 08:43 AM
Hey Kryslin,

Yeah, I've been looking at that. I'm trying to figure out how to setup the weight map. Other than that, I think I've got it.

samurai_x
02-13-2017, 10:10 PM
Wonder if fiberfx will have a totally new version in lw next. Or are we left with no hair solution for lw next.

Kryslin
02-13-2017, 11:22 PM
One of the first things showcased on the blog was the next version of FiberFX.

samurai_x
02-14-2017, 02:49 AM
One of the first things showcased on the blog was the next version of FiberFX.

You're right.
That post was ages ago I actually forgot about it. :D
Wish they would post new renders with that new fiberfx iw next again.

bazsa73
02-14-2017, 04:44 AM
I once had a fairly good setup with fiberfx on a squirrel (back in LW10 times), but once when I reloaded the scene all my settings got messed so bad that
I almost howled in my fury. That was the last time I used FFX. It's terribly frustrating.

erikals
02-14-2017, 07:09 AM
FiberFX loads fine, but not if you load an 11.5 scene in 11.6, or 11.6 in 2015.

it has quirks though, definitely.
some FiberFX videos >
https://www.youtube.com/user/erikalst/search?query=FiberFX

jasonwestmas
02-14-2017, 07:20 AM
Right, don't expect old FFX scenes to work in newer versions of FFX.

ruud
02-14-2017, 07:24 AM
I also have had some headaches on older scenes where my haircuts were perfect for me... only to discover that they don't survive the LW versions :) Hopefully the new build will be compatible with the current and future versions.

bazsa73
02-14-2017, 09:33 AM
FFX will change renderwise at least according to the blogpost 2 years ago. But now when the geo engine is rewritten (preumably) too maybe the whole idea of FFX changes.
For the better hopefully. Jolly good.

ruud
02-14-2017, 09:42 AM
To get back on topic, the main idea for me to start this thread was to share as many haircuts as possible... Does anyone have any contribution to this?

Oldcode
02-14-2017, 09:46 AM
To get back on topic, the main idea for me to start this thread was to share as many haircuts as possible... Does anyone have any contribution to this?

Working on it. I have two more hair styles I'm working on for an upcoming project. As soon as they're ready, I'll post them here.

ruud
02-14-2017, 09:49 AM
Let's help eachother here to make some basic hairstyles, this is what this community is all about ;)

Oldcode
02-14-2017, 09:56 AM
Hey Ruud,

One problem with the long hair styles we've been trying to do is if the character is laying down, or is hanging upside down, or any situation where gravity makes the hairs dangle, it becomes very obvious the hairs are only coming out of one area of the scalp.

I've working on is a set of base hairs that would enhance the styles that we've been doing. By having a series of hairs that are attached below the styling hairs we've been trying to shape to our liking, it would help fill in the gaps when the character is not standing straight up.

Just an evil idea.

bazsa73
02-14-2017, 10:01 AM
Here is the one I did in LW11, a bit baldy but I can't work on it anymore. LW2015 freezes on F9 if I try.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136005&d=1487091459

Kryslin
02-14-2017, 11:04 AM
Ok, using bullet on hair guides (works the same on Sasquatch as it does FFX):
From Greenlaw's videos : Type should be deforming. Mesh Filter is a weight map that tells Bullet what it can affect.
Set Shape retention to 0%; Use a gradient, controlled by a weight map, to control how much the guides deform; More retention near the roots, less at the ends.
Shape Lock is set to translation and rotation - the name is misleading, since it indicates how the guides are controlled prior to being deformed by Bullet. Should be set to Translation and Rotation. Everything else is left at its defaults, except for friction, which is set for 3%.

For this to work quickly, you should have a lower poly count collision hull for the guides to collide with; this is another deforming object, shape retention 100%, Shape Lock to Translation and Rotation (so it deforms based on the bones driving the rest of the rig), and friction set at 25%.

For 3K guide chains, take 4 minutes for 120 frames to compute.

The character in question is rigged with a RHiggit2 pro rig.

The hardest to set up is the shape retention weight map; Since you don't want the roots moving around, it's 100% there, and a very small amount at the ends (like 5%). Getting the values to fall off smoothly from 100% -> on a spline or guide chain is an exercise best left for either the very determined or a masochist. It can be done, But I wound up writing my own tools to do it. This is one instance where I wish you could weight shade display 2pt chains. I don't think a 3rd party tool such as 3rd Powers Weight Paint would help, either...

ruud
02-14-2017, 11:33 AM
Oldcode, I think that whenever you add more and more guides you'll get better results with FFX, this also increases calculation time but will add to the realism (with the right settings).
Now I don't think Lightwave can make it perfect, but when doing cut-scenes you can get pretty results one shot at a time.. I'd love to see one day that the guides will interact with eachother on a natural way..

mav3rick
02-14-2017, 01:26 PM
Ok, using bullet on hair guides (works the same on Sasquatch as it does FFX):
From Greenlaw's videos : Type should be deforming. Mesh Filter is a weight map that tells Bullet what it can affect.
Set Shape retention to 0%; Use a gradient, controlled by a weight map, to control how much the guides deform; More retention near the roots, less at the ends.
Shape Lock is set to translation and rotation - the name is misleading, since it indicates how the guides are controlled prior to being deformed by Bullet. Should be set to Translation and Rotation. Everything else is left at its defaults, except for friction, which is set for 3%.

For this to work quickly, you should have a lower poly count collision hull for the guides to collide with; this is another deforming object, shape retention 100%, Shape Lock to Translation and Rotation (so it deforms based on the bones driving the rest of the rig), and friction set at 25%.

For 3K guide chains, take 4 minutes for 120 frames to compute.

The character in question is rigged with a RHiggit2 pro rig.

The hardest to set up is the shape retention weight map; Since you don't want the roots moving around, it's 100% there, and a very small amount at the ends (like 5%). Getting the values to fall off smoothly from 100% -> on a spline or guide chain is an exercise best left for either the very determined or a masochist. It can be done, But I wound up writing my own tools to do it. This is one instance where I wish you could weight shade display 2pt chains. I don't think a 3rd party tool such as 3rd Powers Weight Paint would help, either...


mmmmm.... that friendly, intuitive workflow :)

Kryslin
02-15-2017, 01:29 AM
mmmmm.... that friendly, intuitive workflow :)

About a friendly as an angry bull in a field. First, I had to find Greenlaw's videos....That was easy. Duplicate what he had on screen... A little harder. Find out why it didn't work with bones...which required finding the right PDF file, and then reading through the bullet section. Harder. Then, tweaking things... Harder yet. And finally, getting a smooth transition from 1 to .05 on a weight map on a mass of polylines (aka 2 pt poly chains)... Painful, painful, painful. I finally wrote my own Splines - Polyline converter that did the work for me (which meant finding out what type of C-R spline Lightwave uses (Centripetal C-R, for those who want to know), and then implementing an evaluator in lScript for it). After that, fine tuning the physics amounts to nothing more than adjusting a gradient.

So, hopefully, LW Next will have all of its documentation in one place, and be able to weight shade 2 pt poly chains, so we can see what we're doing.

Oldcode
02-15-2017, 05:01 AM
Hey Kryslin,

When I read how much trouble you were having with the weight map I had an evil idea. :devil: I remembered watching this tutorial by Top 33...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW9CLDMK0bU&list=PLRuAjY2w04PktRp1cDh1pVcD9DeTiJzK7&index=21

In it he explains how to have a weight map for doing a dangling chain or rope. The way he selected only 1 polygon out of a box of several and created a weight map to anchor the chain gave me an idea.

If you create a box with just two segments slightly longer than the height of the hair, select the top one, then give it a 100% weight map, it seems to create a nice smooth gradient from 100 to 0% weight.

136010

What do you think?

ruud
02-15-2017, 08:05 AM
New Hairstyle, let me know what you guys think.

136011

Oldcode
02-15-2017, 08:32 AM
New Hairstyle, let me know what you guys think.

136011

Nice! :D

Greenlaw
02-15-2017, 09:03 AM
I haven't been able to keep up with this thread but I did skim some posts.

Setting weight falloff should generally be pretty easy--I think I just select the geometry I want to apply/adjust weight falloff to and select the Weights tool in Modeler, then set the tool to Radial or Linear and then adjust the falloff of the tool. For some hair styles, you might be able to do this in one go, for more complicated one, you'll want to select specific strands or groups of guide chains. Blur Weight Maps is handy for this too.

Also, if you use FiberFX Strand Maker, it automatically creates weights from root to tip. (Usually the default is fine but sometimes you may want to adjust the weights a little depending on the style.)

Except for very special situations, I don't think I ever fuss too much about the exact weight falloff--generally, it's full-on weight to a 'lot of weight' on top (because you don't want the hair sliding around on top of the skull), and a lot less weight on the sides. I don't usually make it all that gradual from root to tip because that can look unnatural.

Oh, I just remembered...sometimes I need the falloff to work in the opposite direction than the Weight tool is capable of. For this, I use useful Mike Green's Invert Weight Map (https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/invert-weightmaps/) tool.

Hope these tips are helpful.

Sorry, I know I've said I'll post a tutorial for hair fx, but it's been constantly super busy at work and with personal projects. FWIW, I am planning an 'animation and vfx production' series of videos this year, and will definitely include hair animation.

Greenlaw
02-15-2017, 09:09 AM
Oh, another SUPER useful tool for setting up hair guide weights is Show Weights (http://www2.trueart.pl/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/TrueArt%20Modeling%20Pack), which is part of Sensei's excellent Modeling Pack at the TrueArt website.

This tool shows the numeric value of every selected point right inside the viewport. Very useful for hair guides since there is no other way to visualize the weight values for a 2-point polygon chain in a Modeler viewport.

Greenlaw
02-15-2017, 09:20 AM
Also, for skull/body collision, I don't normally use Deforming because that's just too slow. I prefer to just parent proxy objects directly to a bone and use Kinematic. This can be many, MANY times faster and the collision quality can still be very accurate. That 'Sister' motion test I posted several years ago is a good example--I think I just used a 'bean' for the head and two capsules for the shoulders. Hair calc time were just seconds or minutes for many scenes for that project.

erikals
02-15-2017, 10:43 AM
New Hairstyle.

136011

Beautiful!   :)

edit; could you post a wire of the strands?

Kryslin
02-15-2017, 10:51 AM
My main issue was I working with an existing, as in, already modeled and surfacing dialed in, long hair style...

ruud
02-15-2017, 11:10 AM
erikals (and all other people), in the spirit of sharing, here's the model and the scene

Oldcode
02-15-2017, 11:12 AM
Kryslin,

Put your hair object into one layer, then create square polygon into another layer. Use the square to create and line up the weight map, then delete it. The resulting weight map should be usable on the hair object. I'll try to post some pictures of what I have in mind when I get home tonight.

erikals
02-15-2017, 12:24 PM
Zeelenberg, thank you! Great reference, will study it!   :king:

Greenlaw
02-15-2017, 12:55 PM
New Hairstyle, let me know what you guys think.

136011

That looks great!

Oldcode
02-15-2017, 01:11 PM
erikals (and all other people), in the spirit of sharing, here's the model and the scene

Can't wait to get home and try it.

samurai_x
02-15-2017, 06:58 PM
The hardest to set up is the shape retention weight map; Since you don't want the roots moving around, it's 100% there, and a very small amount at the ends (like 5%). Getting the values to fall off smoothly from 100% -> on a spline or guide chain is an exercise best left for either the very determined or a masochist. It can be done, But I wound up writing my own tools to do it. This is one instance where I wish you could weight shade display 2pt chains. I don't think a 3rd party tool such as 3rd Powers Weight Paint would help, either...


Wasn't there a function to convert to hairguides that had parts. Select the root part put a 100% weight, select inverse part put 10% weight then use weight blur on the whole thing.

Kryslin
02-15-2017, 11:29 PM
And this id the reason I love this community - figure out one way, and 10 more ways to do it pop up. :) I'll keep it in mind the next time I do this, which will be in a couple of weeks, when I get another character done with long hair...

I'd share my results, but I used Sasquatch. While FFX does do hair with guides passingly well, procedural fur tends to have problems. Hopefully, LW Next will be able to do the job. Yes, I know about the 2 layers of fur trick, but my computer doesn't like running more than 2 instances of FFX, and for this particular character, I'd need 4 (Fur, Undercoat, Long Hair, Tail).

Oldcode
02-16-2017, 07:49 AM
Hey Ruud,

I tried you hair on V4 last night. I had to scale it, but other than that it fit pretty well right off the bat. I'm going to try to do a test animation and see how it works.

Thanks! :D

jwiede
02-16-2017, 09:30 AM
mmmmm.... that friendly, intuitive workflow :)

You're being generous, what I'm hearing isn't really a "FFX workflow" at all, virtually all the complexity is put on the user, across multiple disconnected systems. I also have doubts that what we were shown in the blog will reappear as a completely reworked FFX (as opposed to just a new hair shader, which is all they really mentioned), we'll see how that plays out.

If LW3DG does attempt to rework FFX, a good place to start would be focusing on a single, coherent, DISCOVERABLE end-to-end workflow that doesn't depend on the user reading forum threads to have the faintest idea how things are supposed to work and what all needs to be created and configured by user, including cross-connections. Another good requirement to give themselves is backwards-compatibility, as the current near complete lack of compatibility even between revisions in the same version is ridiculous, and reflects poorly on LW3DG developers.

ruud
02-16-2017, 09:58 AM
I don't have any trouble at all creating what I'm imagining with FFX. Seeing other fur solutions or renderings, my opinion is that Lightwave doesn't offer any less than other programs.
FFX does require you to know a lot of variables in order to create a nice rendering, but fur isn't really the easiest part in 3D.
Nevertheless, the reason for me to start this thread wasn't to complain about the lacks of FFX but instead share the good result so everyone can benefit from it.

ianr
02-16-2017, 10:26 AM
Bring Back Joe Alter to Fix It,

pay him the MoNNaNY! (this time)

Oldcode
02-16-2017, 05:55 PM
Hey Kryslin,

Do you think this weight map would work in Bullet?

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EDIT: Never mind. I just realized why this won't work. :(

Kryslin
02-16-2017, 09:58 PM
You have to have the most shape retention at the roots, and the least for the better part of the hair guide.

samurai_x probably has the easiest method to understand; select your root points, plus a couple more (to get your guides clear of the geometry before the deform), Invert the selection, set those to a low percentage (5%-10%). Select your root points again, invert the selection, and use weight blur. You could even use the square as a guide to how good your falloffs are.

Oldcode
02-20-2017, 09:23 AM
Hey Ruud,

Had to make some more adjustments to your hair to make it fit V4, but it works very nicely. Here's a small animation with the default colors.

I'm using ClothFx to do the dynamics. The only problem is the hair is kind of twitchy. I've tried different settings in ClothFx to make it better but so far no luck. Until I figure out how to do the dynamics with Bullet, this may be the best that I can do. I'll keep trying though. Here's the hair object sized and adjusted for V4 for everybody to share.

I hope somebody finds it useful.


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ruud
02-20-2017, 09:33 AM
can you post your scene? you can let the model out, just so I can take a look at things

Oldcode
02-20-2017, 10:45 AM
Here you go.

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Kevbarnes
02-20-2017, 12:20 PM
You have to have the most shape retention at the roots, and the least for the better part of the hair guide.

Have you tried Weight_Outward plug-in

https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/weight-outward/

I have used it on to get the same weight map fall of over a 2 point poly chain

Oldcode
02-20-2017, 02:56 PM
Thanks Kevbarnes,

I'll give that a try. :D

Oldcode
03-04-2017, 06:17 AM
Hey Kevbarnes! :D

I finally got a chance to try that out and it looks very promising! This is another one of those plugins should be standard with Lightwave. :hey:

I used a square with the top points selected so I could see what I was doing while learning. If I have time this weekend, I'll try this one one of my hair models, selecting the points near the top and going down from there just like in this picture.

Can't wait to try it! :D

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Thanks again!

erikals
03-04-2017, 08:06 PM
yep, quite nice, just made a preview   :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj1p3FV1oJ0

dmind
03-06-2017, 04:28 PM
FFx and Wind effect (VPR test).

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erikals
03-06-2017, 05:34 PM
Awesome! :king:

toeknee
03-06-2017, 06:13 PM
Hey Oldcode, here is something I did with fiber FX if you go to about 2:20 you will see the hair. This worked out pretty good for what I was going for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWa4CCVslr8&t=142s

Oldcode
03-06-2017, 08:45 PM
Hey Oldcode, here is something I did with fiber FX if you go to about 2:20 you will see the hair. This worked out pretty good for what I was going for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWa4CCVslr8&t=142s

Nice JOB! :D

toeknee
03-06-2017, 10:43 PM
Thank you so much, I was using HDRI and Radiocity for the render. My instructions were to make the hair movie like wheat in a field. I was really happy with the final result. The whole reel is almost all Lightwave and Zbrush.

ruud
03-07-2017, 12:55 AM
@dmind: Nice piece of fur, looks very convincing!

dmind
03-07-2017, 08:19 AM
Render detail.

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______________________________________________
www.dgmind.com
http://www.facebook.com/digitalmind.animation

Kryslin
04-13-2017, 11:54 AM
Related to the discussion...
https://youtu.be/sH2_29l6rFs

Hair Dynamics Test using Bullet Dynamics. 4000 Guides, 288 frames = 6 minutes and change computation.
(The dynamics are only on the long hair, not the tail)
While the character is set up using Sasquatch, the same techniques apply to FiberFX.

I'm slowly working on converting the Sasquatch work over to FiberFX, in preparation for Lightwave Next/++/2017/Whatever...

Kevbarnes
04-14-2017, 01:27 PM
Hair Dynamics Test using Bullet Dynamics.

Hi Kryslin - what are you using to get the hair to react - are you using a weight map on the length of hair in shape retention ?

I'm working on some character heads with fur and feathers but I haven't got to the dynamics yet.

136541 136540

I tried to model fur using StrandModeler Utility and Layouts FibreFX Edit Guides but found it difficult to get the precise flow of fibre to follow the mesh
contours. - in the end I used Modeler StandTool, added two Knots and then made a 'Style_Morph'. I then modeled the fur flow, one strand at a time - well half
of them anyway with symmetry on.

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Kryslin
04-14-2017, 02:54 PM
KevBarnes : It's a weight map on each guide. That drives a gradient under shape retention. I've got the most shape retention at the roots, and very little at the end. There's also a key in the middle between the two extremes that makes the slope from 100% to 50% fairly steep, and then from 50% to 0% gradual. When I added that middle key on the gradient, things worked. Getting that weight map on the 4K guides was painful (but I now have other options).

Looking at your characters, how do you get such good coverage of the fur over the surface? I tend to wind up with some glaring gaps in coverage, even with high clump radius settings and high fibers per clump... I know of the tangled second coat, but that usually leads to a very prompt crash for me in FiberFX. No warning, no crash reporter, just a crash to desktop.

Kevbarnes
04-14-2017, 03:42 PM
KevBarnes : It's a weight map on each guide. That drives a gradient under shape retention. I've got the most shape retention at the roots, and very little at the end. There's also a key in the middle between the two extremes that makes the slope from 100% to 50% fairly steep, and then from 50% to 0% gradual. When I added that middle key on the gradient, things worked. Getting that weight map on the 4K guides was painful (but I now have other options).

Ok - thanks for that, so its a matter of playing with the gradient



Looking at your characters, how do you get such good coverage of the fur over the surface? I tend to wind up with some glaring gaps in coverage, even with high clump radius settings and high fibers per clump... I know of the tangled second coat, but that usually leads to a very prompt crash for me in FiberFX. No warning, no crash reporter, just a crash to desktop.

Yes - I get the same, always seems a bit bald as the fibres are normal to camera so I added a black incidence colour multiply that darkens the underlying colour and tends to blend in the fibers. I'll post up
some more info later. I did try having a weight map on % coveridge with higher values at the edges but it still wasn't effective.

Kevbarnes
04-14-2017, 07:08 PM
Method

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1 Created Skin tones based on WeightMap, this could be done with uv-Imagemap

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2 I copy this to the fibre fx colour. The fibers are now have the same base colour as the underlying skin tone.
But this still tends to give a 'bald' look to areas where fibers are 'normal' to camera - around nose and brow.

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3 As a reference this is what it would look like with a default grey skin tone.

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4 I have added a darkening, multiply layer based in incidence which tends to darken the skin tone around
the roots of the fibers like a shadow and helps to blend them in.

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Result

I'm using 60% coveridge - so could crank it up a bit.
The final image used will be reduced to about 25%. its an animated symbol for an arcade style game
I might try cloning this fiber layer adding an underlying shorter fiber but I have to get the next character started

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This is wip for a rooster - I'm still modeling the fiber guides at the moment then I'll try shaping some feathers.

Kryslin
04-14-2017, 07:55 PM
That's an interesting trick. And you've given me a couple of ideas...Like using incidence to peturb the fibers that are normal to the camera (use it as a multiplier for a bit of turbulence...)

Kevbarnes
04-15-2017, 09:10 AM
That's an interesting trick. And you've given me a couple of ideas...Like using incidence to peturb the fibers that are normal to the camera (use it as a multiplier for a bit of turbulence...)

That sound interesting - is it a fixed, static effect - would it cause the fibers to 'creep' as the camera/mesh animated relative to camera?

Solar Eclips :
Did you know that Prescott is close (100 miles) to the path of total eclipse in USA around August?.
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Kryslin
04-15-2017, 11:54 PM
That sound interesting - is it a fixed, static effect - would it cause the fibers to 'creep' as the camera/mesh animated relative to camera?

Solar Eclipse :
Did you know that Prescott is close (100 miles) to the path of total eclipse in USA around August?.
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Since I mainly do static renders (I'm working on my animation skills, and it is slow going), it shouldn't make that much of a difference. The trick, it appears, is doing it without LW crashing. But you are correct, there would be some fur moving around in an animation. So, probably not a good idea to try it on an animated piece.

And no, I did not know I was 100 miles off the eclipse path. Depending on when it occurs, I could pull out my #10 Blue Furnace goggles and take a look. :)
It also means we'll have a lot of people in town, hotels in the area are few and far between, and I wouldn't be surprised if Kansas City and St. Joseph are already booked up.

jwiede
04-16-2017, 04:37 PM
The trick, it appears, is doing it without LW crashing.

That's the trick to doing most productive FFX work in LW, it seems, and not a particularly easy trick at that.

Kryslin
04-17-2017, 09:04 AM
No, it's not. FiberFX under 9.6 I knew what the limits were, and ran it right at those, and had no crashes (under 32 bit). Now, under 64 bit, I've managed to crash out to the desktop several times - trying to add 'tangle' based on camera incidence, trying to add an undercoat layer (interesting to note - I can clone something and add FFX to a separate surface, but adding to the same surface wrecks things, usually at render), even trying to do my bias combing as a nodal network (that was a spectacular blow out, too).

Right now, I'm missing the surface tree for my objects in FFX. Don't know what happened, and I can still edit the settings, but it's crazy.

Greenlaw
04-17-2017, 09:53 AM
One thing we learned at work last week is that if you clone a FiberFX layer, you can't delete the original layer without crashing. I don't normally run into that situation but one of the other animators here ran into that. Just FYI.

Kryslin
04-17-2017, 10:03 AM
Duly noted.

Kevbarnes
04-20-2017, 05:09 PM
Fiber for Rooster

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Result - see below for details

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1. Guides for feathers made in modeler StandTool, made with 6 nodes.
- 6 nodes allows me to shape the feathers, see #3.

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2. Created a Style_Morph where guides were modeled to flow over Mesh geometry.
I decided to leave all guides the same length and control scale of feathers with weight map
- I could have scaled the guides down at this stage, like i did with the fox.

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3. The 6 nodes per guide are used to control fiber width - see image 4

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5. Weight map controls Fiber Density. similar map for Scale.

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6. Colour Gradient is copied from Skin colour and controlled by weight map.
Added a gradient based on fibre V (length) to darken the roots of the feathers
and also an opposite gradient in specular to make the feather tips catch the light

7.Result - 640x640px takes 2 min 18 sec to render on 12 threads

Kryslin
04-26-2017, 11:34 PM
Slowly making progress with my bias combing script; I'm getting closer to Sasquatch's results...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Kryslin/3D%20Stuff/pirta_comb_1_zpstb9vzdgt.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Kryslin/media/3D%20Stuff/pirta_comb_1_zpstb9vzdgt.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Kryslin/3D%20Stuff/pirta_comb_3_zpstmhgcuze.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Kryslin/media/3D%20Stuff/pirta_comb_3_zpstmhgcuze.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Kryslin/3D%20Stuff/pirta_comb_2_zpsu5sb1wre.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Kryslin/media/3D%20Stuff/pirta_comb_2_zpsu5sb1wre.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Kryslin/3D%20Stuff/pirta_comb_4_zpskiuhanae.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Kryslin/media/3D%20Stuff/pirta_comb_4_zpskiuhanae.jpg.html)

The model is Daz3D's Melody, using the snow leopard textures. Render time is roughly 1m45s for each frame, which is pretty good.

I'm still tweaking the bias vector generation; The current algorithm goes something like this:
1) Chose a point to brush away from (This is currently the center point of a surface based selection, similar to how you can choose a surface to comb away from in Sasquatch).
2) for every point...
(Right now, it's every point... Ouch. I'd like to comb by surface or surfaces).
2a) Generate a vector from point from 1) to the current vertex' vertex normal.
2b) If the y component of 2a) is greater than the y component of the vertex normal, add 3 times the difference to 1) and recompute 2a).
(This simply solves the problem where the brush vector is more vertical than the vertex normal, causing combing to get messed up)
2c) Compute the perpendicular vector from the vertex normal and 2a)
2d) Using simple vector addition add 2c) to 2a), and normalize them. This is your bias vector.
(You can also use interpolation between the vertex normal and the perpendicular...)
2e) Store 2d) in a vertex RGB map. To be safe, remap the RGB values to the 0...1 domain and store that one as well.

Melody has some 55K vertices, and my lScript takes about 6 minutes to run.

To use, simply set your vertex bias map to the maps stored @ 2e1) or 2e2) (be sure to use the remap option on the remapped one).

Dodgy
04-27-2017, 12:48 AM
Looks awesome :)

Greenlaw
04-27-2017, 01:19 AM
Yes, that looks nice!

I've been using FiberFX for several years now but I do miss that auto-comb feature in Sasquatch.

daforum
04-27-2017, 05:34 AM
Method

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1 Created Skin tones based on WeightMap, this could be done with uv-Imagemap

136550
2 I copy this to the fibre fx colour. The fibers are now have the same base colour as the underlying skin tone.
But this still tends to give a 'bald' look to areas where fibers are 'normal' to camera - around nose and brow.

136551
3 As a reference this is what it would look like with a default grey skin tone.

136552
4 I have added a darkening, multiply layer based in incidence which tends to darken the skin tone around
the roots of the fibers like a shadow and helps to blend them in.

136553
Result

I'm using 60% coveridge - so could crank it up a bit.
The final image used will be reduced to about 25%. its an animated symbol for an arcade style game
I might try cloning this fiber layer adding an underlying shorter fiber but I have to get the next character started

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This is wip for a rooster - I'm still modeling the fiber guides at the moment then I'll try shaping some feathers.

Looking good kev :thumbsup:

Kevbarnes
04-27-2017, 11:38 AM
Slowly making progress with my bias combing script; I'm getting closer to Sasquatch's results....

@ Kryslin - this is excellent flow. what are you using to get a bias map. Are you using another prog?

Kev

Kevbarnes
04-27-2017, 11:44 AM
Looking good kev :thumbsup:

@ daforum - thanks - I'm working on a Chicken now to go with the Rooster and then I have a Chick to do - but it's getting to be a drudge modelling 500 guides each time.

Kryslin seems to be working smarter - with a bias map.

Kryslin
04-27-2017, 12:16 PM
I've been banging my head against this particular problem for a while.

It's an lScript, and it's entering the final stages of tweaking now. When it's done, I'll probably put it out in the wild. It's realll close now.
(TODO: Need to specify what surfaces to comb, and allow the user to name the bias map, or select an exisiting one. Interesting to note - you can make multiple passes of combing, and I'll probably specifyt some kind of fall off for that...)

I use some basic vector math to generate a bias map. FiberFX settings are 100% density, 10 fibers/10mm clump radius, Thin fibers, 100% fiber size, 3% bump (using turbulence), root only, biasmap at 100%, remapped option. Color is textured, using a UV map, and shadowing cut down to 20% each, point sample.

mav3rick
04-27-2017, 12:32 PM
well done krys... i hope LW3DG note this LSC and work theyr *** round auto combing.. it really misses.. like short hair dynamics that we wait for ages

Kevbarnes
04-27-2017, 05:59 PM
.... It's an lScript, and it's entering the final stages of tweaking now ....

This sounds interesting
I tried creating bias map using 'Strand Modeler' then editing the colours but found it difficult to predict its effect
I cold not get smooth blending.

Kryslin
04-27-2017, 11:52 PM
They're not easy to work with, but they are easy to compute.

A regular bias map is actually a malformed RGB vertex map; instead of the color values falling between 0...1, they fall between -1...1. Also, the sum of the squares of the R,G,and B components should equal 1 (R^2 + G^2 + B^2 = 1) - this is because the bias map represents a normal vector. The remap option allows you to use a RGB vertex map where the colors fall within the normal 0...1 range, with < .5, .5, .5> being equivalent to <0,0,0>; To get the vector out of the map, multiply each component by 2, then subtract 1.

I suspect having the sum of the squares equal one is not completely necessary, but it makes doing computations on the vector slightly easier...

Kryslin
04-28-2017, 11:57 PM
...And I'm just about there. I added a listbox control, which allows you to select which surfaces get combed, and automatically removes the surface your combing away from from the list of available surfaces. I might have a small problem there, so I'll double check that before release into the wild.

Kevbarnes
04-29-2017, 04:04 AM
... I added a listbox control, which allows you to select which surfaces get combed, and automatically removes the surface your combing away from from the list of available surfaces ....

So are you able to comb from one surface to another?

Kryslin
04-29-2017, 10:10 AM
Across multiple surfaces as one... yes. It used to comb across the entire model, but as an attempt to make it more efficient, I added the ability to choose what surfaces get combed.

It's still a slug of a script, though...Like I said, 6 minutes + for 44K vertices...

Kryslin
04-29-2017, 07:35 PM
Again, bias combing tests on Daz3D's "Melody" character...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Kryslin/3D%20Stuff/pj_comb1_zpsw08mk8yd.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Kryslin/media/3D%20Stuff/pj_comb1_zpsw08mk8yd.jpg.html)
Fixed an odd quirk with the original alogrithm; the fur on the face wasn't following the geometry, it was hanging down, which isn't the same behavior I get out of Sasquatch. This is much closer to what Ol' Sasquatch produces.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Kryslin/3D%20Stuff/pj_comb_2_zpszprpryzg.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Kryslin/media/3D%20Stuff/pj_comb_2_zpszprpryzg.jpg.html)
Those of you who are good at spotting things will note that the hair does something a little odd at the back of the skull. I can't seem to get rid of it, and as the hair on the back of my cat's head kind of does the same thing, I'm going to let it go.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Kryslin/3D%20Stuff/pj_comb_3_zps8ss2nuul.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Kryslin/media/3D%20Stuff/pj_comb_3_zps8ss2nuul.jpg.html)
Again, an example of the excellent combing I'm getting on multiple curved surfaces. Or as someone else on a different forum put it, "...fluffy butt of distraction, +2!"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Kryslin/3D%20Stuff/pj_comb_4_zpsl7anqwgq.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Kryslin/media/3D%20Stuff/pj_comb_4_zpsl7anqwgq.jpg.html)
And combing down different axis, and the transitions.

Again, this was all done by an lscript, and rendered in Lightwave using FiberFX 2015.3. I'm planning on releasing the script on monday. It's stable, it does what it's supposed to, and the results are passing my muster. I just have to remember to comment out the debug(); statement this time... :)

erikals
04-30-2017, 04:47 AM
looks Awesome. :)

is there any way to manually tweak areas afterwards?

Greenlaw
04-30-2017, 09:59 AM
That's a good question. In Sasquatch, you could use nulls as effectors to change bias, and I believe you could use that with the autocomb option. But it wasn't very specific (i.e., not like moving guides.)

From what I recall though, I think I just enabled the autocomb in Sas and let it be whatever it was going to be. If I needed to change it, I just selected a different 'start point' for it. If I needed a region to be different, I probably used another instance of the plugin.

Sorry, my memory might be fuzzy about that. It's been several years since I last used Sas, so I'm not sure how accurate the above is.

Kryslin
04-30-2017, 10:44 AM
I haven't tried edit guides with a bias map, but I don't think it would work.

I am working on it, though. I've a set of prototype tools that displays the bias map as a series of 2pt polygons. My stumbling block towards editing them is referencing the 'parent' vertex the bias information comes from, because the bias 'hairs' are displayed on another layer. That way, you generate your map, use 'bias show' to generate some bristles, showing the map; adjust the vectors using modeler's tools, and 'bias store' to transfer the information back ( and remove the generated bristles). I'll have to make sure that the root points are 'locked', so they can't be moved if I can't find a way to reference the vertex ID of the original point...

And yes, I've used nulls in Sasquatch to pull fur towards a point. Effectors are kinda fun to play with.

I want to get the basic functionality of this - the auto combing based on a surface selection, because that's what I used the most to dial in my fur on Sasquatch - good and solid before adding any more bells and whistles, because everything else stems from this basic function.

The one thing I'm not making any noise about is the fact you can do multiple passes of combing with this , by selecting and hiding various portions of your geometry and simply running the tool in "average" mode instead of "overwrite". That way, if I wanted to say brush the ears out towards the points more (using melody from above), I'd hide everything but the ears and nose (my surface to comb away from), set the vertex ops to "Average", select "nose" to brush away from, and "headntail" to brush, and let 'er rip. It is, however, very limited. I'd want some kind of falloff, or selection mechanism (like weight maps), to limit the effect. And some way to blend the transitions if they are a little harsh...

Greenlaw
04-30-2017, 10:55 AM
That sounds really cool! I'm looking forward to seeing your workflow in action. :)

Kryslin
04-30-2017, 11:50 AM
Most of my workflows tend to be of the select geometry, select tool options, push "OK" button, wait for tool to finish, done! type.

I'm trying to duplicate as much of the Sasquatch workflow as I can; In this case, select surface to brush away from, select surfaces to brush, press OK. I haven't played with any of the settings (like Brush Strength), but I have made sure that "Add/Interpolate" and "Overwrite/Average" do work as they should.

Add/Interpolate chooses how the bias vector is generated; Add uses Normal + (strength * perpendicular), while Interpolate uses (1-strength) * vertex normal + (strength * perpendicular).

Overwrite/Average should be self explanatory; Overwrite generates a new bias value, and stores it. Average takes the old bias value, and averages it with the new value, then stores it.

My examples use "Add" and "Overwrite".

erikals
04-30-2017, 01:44 PM
cool, just a thought...
if manually tweaks are tricky, in some cases one could override the flow with a second FiberFX instance that's using longer hair.

looks like a neat plugin for sure.

Oldcode
04-30-2017, 05:54 PM
Hey Kryslin,

Just to be clear, is this plugin/script going to work on the FiberFx within Layout, where the program generates the guides?

Kryslin
04-30-2017, 07:23 PM
This is a modeler lScript. As of right now, lScript can only generate vertex maps inside modeler. I've no clue what LW++ has in store for lScript, if anything. The bias map is stored with the geometry.

Workflow goes like this :
1) Take model from Layout, open in Modeler.
2) Run lScript.
3) Save model
4) Refresh Layout (Or let layout update via the Hub).

If I knew Python, I might be able to do that, or if I could get my rather poor C skills up to snuff... 3rdPowers can create Weight Maps in Layout, so Python or C plugins should be able to as well (Python is supposed to wrap the SDK pretty close, and C is what most .p and lightwave itself is written in...).

Oldcode
04-30-2017, 07:37 PM
Oh! It's the FiberFx within Modeler where you make the guides. Cool.

Kryslin
04-30-2017, 08:19 PM
No, It's completely separate from FiberFX. I simply figured out what a bias map contained and wrote my own bias map generator that was pretty much fire and forget.
It might have other uses, but I'm at a los at what they could be...

Kryslin
05-01-2017, 11:57 AM
Ok, it's Monday.

The zip file contains two lscripts; BiasComb and BiasShow.

These are both fire-and-forget lscripts for use in Modeler.

Bias Comb Usage :
1) Hide the geometry you don't want to have combed (Not really necessary, but why take chances?).
2) Run lscript
3) If the model has no existing bias maps, choose (new), and enter a name in the text box. Otherwise, choose an existing bias map
***The script cannot tell the difference between a bias map and one re-mapped to the 0...1 domain. Things could get ugly if you choose
***the wrong bias map. The remapped version this script produces ends with a "_rm".
4) Choose a surface to comb away from.
5) Choose which surfaces to comb (ctrl-click to select multiples)
6) Choose how the bias vector gets computed; either vector addition, or interpolation between the vertex normal and the computed bias vector. Vector addition gives results closest to Sasquatch quick combing.
7) Choose whether you want to overwite the existing map, or average the new bias map with the existing one. If you are generating a new map, it will lock in overwrite, whether you choose it or average.
8) Press "OK".
9) Wait. It's slow, I know. I wrote this to be as memory friendly as possible, so very little gets loaded into arrays.
10) Done!

Multiple passes of combing are supported. By creating a box or sphere, you can hide various portions of geometry, choose average, and brush away from the surface you assigned to you brushing object.

Usage of Bias Show:
1) Select some polygons or vertices.
2) Run lscript.
3) Choose your bias map.
4) If you have a weight map for fur length, you can choose it. If not, select Fixed.
5) Press Ok.
6) 2pt. Polygons representing the bias vector stored in the selected map are created in the first background layer available.
7) Done!

The geometry in the background layer is disposable, and least for now.

I hope people find these useful, or at least amusing. It's been tested on Lightwave 2015.3, and should work on 11.6.3.
I make no guarantee for suitability of purpose. Use at own risk. Free to distribute. If you modify it, I'd like a copy of the change.
I've stomped most of the bugs. If you find one, let me know.

Neither of these scripts likes malformed geometry, so no 1 & 2 pt polygons. The results aren't pretty.

Steve
136696

erikals
05-01-2017, 12:09 PM
This Rocks! :king: http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

Greenlaw
05-01-2017, 12:19 PM
Thanks for making your script available, Steve! I'm going to try it out at lunch today.

Kevbarnes
05-01-2017, 12:24 PM
Ok, it's Monday.... BiasComb and BiasShow ....

Thanks for this Steve
Just Downloaded and will play with later - or tomorrow, at work
its Monday Evening(7:30pm) here (UK) on a Bank Holiday.

I'll test it on my fox and the rooster

Kevbarnes
05-01-2017, 01:10 PM
Just had a quick play on sphere with existing Bias map in LW 11.6.3 & 2015.3

'Show Bias' works fine when using existing map and generates 2pnt poly

Created New map and I get an error when using 'Show Bias' - "Line 66 attempt to access undeclared array v"

Also I note that when creating bias map - both fur_bias and fur_bias_rm are generated.

--------
Ok - It appears to work if I select surface poly then run show bias - but not if nothing is selected

Dodgy
05-01-2017, 06:23 PM
Could you change it to use Parts? I always find using Surfaces annoying as those have their own function, but Parts are more for this sort of utility.

erikals
05-01-2017, 06:35 PM
maybe you could 'hack' it Dodgy? it's .ls / not .lsc

...Greek to me though, or more of an 'Alien' language...

Kryslin
05-01-2017, 11:32 PM
Just had a quick play on sphere with existing Bias map in LW 11.6.3 & 2015.3

'Show Bias' works fine when using existing map and generates 2pnt poly

Created New map and I get an error when using 'Show Bias' - "Line 66 attempt to access undeclared array v"

Also I note that when creating bias map - both fur_bias and fur_bias_rm are generated.

--------
Ok - It appears to work if I select surface poly then run show bias - but not if nothing is selected

I'll look into the undeclared array error, and why it isn't selecting the whole mesh, like selmode(USER) should.

The bias map generator generates both a bias map and a remapped bias map; the bias map with the _rm suffix is remapped so that all values are from 0...1. That's normal operation, there.


Could you change it to use Parts? I always find using Surfaces annoying as those have their own function, but Parts are more for this sort of utility.

I could, should I be able to find a fast way to load an array in lscript with part names instead of surface names. Supports for parts in lscript is kinda sparse...

Dodgy
05-02-2017, 02:18 AM
Call the Parts to surface command, get the surfaces and then undo. You can selpolygon(SET,PART,"Partname"); That's how I do it anyway :)

Kryslin
05-02-2017, 09:50 AM
Ok, that's fast enough. :)

Kevbarnes
05-02-2017, 11:39 AM
1st Test
Really excellent results. I need to experiment with blending. The flow over ears is not quite how I want it.

I have applied the map at 200% to get it 'flatter' to skin but I can experiment with a weight map here and
vary the Fiber root angle.

136703 136704 136705

Made yellow surface to 'comb' away from

Kryslin
05-02-2017, 12:29 PM
My recommendation... Go with the nose as your brush away from surface. How
BiasComb chooses it's origin point is that it uses the center point of the bounding box of the comb away surface, then chooses the z- value that puts it farther away from the center of the model. If you were to move it to the nose, it would probably give better results (This was the typical usage in Sasquatch. Also, you could use multiple combing passes, using average instead of overwrite. The next revision should handle effectors and falloffs for multiple combing passes, along with any bug fixes.

Kevbarnes
05-02-2017, 01:06 PM
My recommendation... Go with the nose as your brush away from surface.

So are you saying instead of having different areas - i should have one localised area at a time to be the comb-away datum

Greenlaw
05-02-2017, 03:08 PM
Hey, Steve! Finally tried it out and I think this is pretty cool. At first I got the same error Kevbarnes got, but in my case I guess I selected the wrong bias map. When I chose Fur_bias_rm, the Show Bias script worked perfectly!

Just wondering: why are there two bias maps in my object, Fur_bias and Fur_bias_rm? I understand that rm means this is a new remapped map, but I'm not sure why that happened since my object did not have an existing bias map to start.

If that doesn't make sense, I'll try again later and make sure I'm following the steps correctly.

Kryslin
05-02-2017, 11:23 PM
So are you saying instead of having different areas - i should have one localised area at a time to be the comb-away datum

Yes, that's exactly it. I would also try to keep things down the ZY plane, for symmetry. That way, you can select things in pairs.

Kryslin
05-02-2017, 11:26 PM
Hey, Steve! Finally tried it out and I think this is pretty cool. At first I got the same error Kevbarnes got, but in my case I guess I selected the wrong bias map. When I chose Fur_bias_rm, the Show Bias script worked perfectly!

Just wondering: why are there two bias maps in my object, Fur_bias and Fur_bias_rm? I understand that rm means this is a new remapped map, but I'm not sure why that happened since my object did not have an existing bias map to start.

If that doesn't make sense, I'll try again later and make sure I'm following the steps correctly.

Ok, I'm going to have to see what's going on with that error; It shouldn't be happening AT ALL. ShowBias shouldn't work the the remapped bias map at all. Time to look at my code...

I create the two maps side-by-side automatically. I could make that a option (like a check box) in the next revision.

**edit** Ok, I can see where the error is coming from. I made the dangerous assumption that every point would be mapped with the bias map, when in fact, some points are not (BiasComb ignores vertices under certain conditions). Time to make a fix and test it out (namely, using an .ismapped query before getting the bias value...).

Kryslin
05-03-2017, 10:02 AM
Ok, to avoid an encounter with Mr. Bowie, I've started a thread down in 3rd party for this stuff...

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?153559-Kryslin-s-lScripts

ncr100
05-23-2017, 12:37 PM
Not FiberFX, some amazing graphics shader doing grass (realtime, likely rough on the GPU): https://twitter.com/Ibuprogames/status/866344063657799680

erikals
05-23-2017, 12:44 PM
nice!

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGm9IvWoDlfi3D2/giphy.gif

hopefully LW2017 will have fast AA,

AA for grass in LightWave is a showstopper as of now, takes way too long to render

Boris Goreta
05-29-2017, 08:26 AM
Sorry to barge in but as I can see a lot of FiberFX professionals in this thread I really need help with this http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?153762-FiberFX-Swirl-doesn-t-work-with-animated-objects&p=1508197#post1508197

ruud
06-28-2017, 05:31 AM
My haircut on a character, rendered with Octane! Let me know what you guys think.

137206

Dodgy
06-28-2017, 05:44 AM
Looks good :)

erikals
01-29-2018, 12:37 PM
if someone wants to give it a test-run in LW2018
just added a model, curves are pretty much the same

https://i.imgur.com/It0Xfet.png

prometheus
01-29-2018, 01:20 PM
weird...why did they put so much effort on the new hair fiberfx, but not supplying any hair surface presets? or did I miss something here?

erikals
01-29-2018, 01:39 PM
not sure, maybe they did, however not in the trial.

prometheus
01-29-2018, 03:49 PM
not sure, maybe they did, however not in the trial.

Donīt know what that should be good for?

Anyway, took a step back to blender and messing with hair there, I am not that fond of what I see in quality right now for the hair in lightwave it may be that it takes a lot of work to get it right, the Lion was nice, but thatīs a different story from long human hair with hair guides, and when you know the inside out, it may be very capable..but I donīt find it easy to get there, and apart from that..GI and path tracing taking very long to refresh in VPR....If I compare to blender, then I think I would give cycles the upper hand here, both in speed of path tracer and GI and the quality of the hair, but itsītoo soon to say, unfortunately I do not think I may be able to try it all out until trial goes out, maybe if most of the features are still there when it goes discovery.

erikals
01-29-2018, 04:07 PM
could be, hence the reason for bumping this thread.

i'll leave it to others due lack of time.

for now i find it nice.
for hyper-realistic hair... we'll just have to wait and see.


i'm sure after a while we'll see how FiberFX competes.

gerry_g
01-29-2018, 05:17 PM
hair does render better in new version, I had density issues with 2015.3 where strange thing would happen in desert patches of hair, bits would go missing. I think you are confusing two problems, One/- how to style and groom hair, and Two/- how to get a good render look, the first one is easily solved – do your styling piece-meal in separate clumps in ZBrush and export the curves and stick it back together in LW, the second one, the look has been solved.

Oldcode
01-29-2018, 05:48 PM
Hey Guys,

Hope the improvements in 2018 are worth it. I've been slowly learning all the steps to making dynamic hair. Here's one experiment that worked well in 2015. I'm using Blender to actually create and style the hair and my next step is to create a long hair style that I hope will interact with the shoulders properly. I'd been having problem with that in the past when somebody suggested increase the scene scale of all the object in the scene. Dynamics like ClothFx and others tend to do better if the geometry is not too small. This character is 25x bigger than she was when I first imported the scene into Lightwave from Poser. It seems to help a lot.

139846

erikals
01-29-2018, 08:39 PM
Hope the improvements in 2018 are worth it.
should be, better FFX render, several FFX bugs fixed.

Bullet works fine in LW, Syflex is the way for long hair dynamics.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8j1ECepjWE

Oldcode
01-29-2018, 09:16 PM
Syflex is the way for long hair dynamics.

I have Syflex, but I've never been able to figure out how to anchor the hair to the character's head using it. Any tutorials you know of? Is it done with a weight map?

TheLexx
01-30-2018, 03:18 AM
I have Syflex, but I've never been able to figure out how to anchor the hair to the character's head using it. Any tutorials you know of? Is it done with a weight map?
For info, Ryan Roye's video clip, but also the comments on the page (http://www.liberty3d.com/2015/02/the-syflex-workflow-guide/).

Oldcode
01-30-2018, 09:12 PM
I have Ryan's Tutorials on Syflex, but he does not really go into how to use Syflex for hair. He's got a few sample scenes that he includes, that has a character rigged with hair, but so far I've been able to figure out what he did.

erikals
02-19-2018, 05:46 PM
LightWave Guru,
Octane test on Facebook >
https://www.facebook.com/safarifx/posts/1562954550497118

sudac20
02-21-2018, 07:10 PM
Looks pretty bad so far... I would like to see an example of decent animated hair. I can't belive that they hyped fiber FX in 2018. It is slow and tedious to work with and the end result is lacking to say the least. Video games have better hair effects then Lightwave. I would gladly pay 600.00 for a descent LW hair plugin.

Oldcode
02-21-2018, 08:28 PM
Hey everybody,

I finally figured out how setup the weight maps so I can anchor the roots of the hair to the character's head. Having Paint Weight from 3rdPowers is really helpful, but not needed. Here's what I've got so far. A simple walk cycle hair movement test. I'm working on getting the right settings in Bullet to make the hair movements as realistic as I can.

Click on the image to see the animation.

140230

Kryslin
02-22-2018, 12:11 AM
https://youtu.be/sH2_29l6rFs
This was my attempt using bullet on guides, so the hair would interact with the character's body realistically. This set up was for Sasquatch, but I could duplicate it for FFX, given an afternoon...

140235
Some current character work, using FFX '18. Styling was done with my homegrown hair tools, plus Lightwave's magnet. I do have some tip narrowing going on (via a gradient on fiber width, which wasn't easy to set up, because of FFX's tendency to update several million fibers at every little change). My settings do need some refinement, but I've got the render noise down to acceptable for trials levels.

jwiede
02-22-2018, 05:46 AM
Hey everybody,

I finally figured out how setup the weight maps so I can anchor the roots of the hair to the character's head.

Look just to the right of where the part ends at the forehead. About 2/3rds through the animation, it clearly appears to "re-surface" from within the head, as if it had slowly submerged under the scalp/forehead surface prior.

Oldcode
02-22-2018, 06:40 AM
Look just to the right of where the part ends at the forehead. About 2/3rds through the animation, it clearly appears to "re-surface" from within the head, as if it had slowly submerged under the scalp/forehead surface prior.

Thanks.

That is because I'm using a proxy figure for the collisions that is slightly smaller than the character's head. I'm working on that problem now. If I can't fix it, I may just use a collision object, or use the actual character for collisions. It takes longer to simulate, but its doable and might be worth the extra time.

- - - Updated - - -


https://youtu.be/sH2_29l6rFs
This was my attempt using bullet on guides, so the hair would interact with the character's body realistically. This set up was for Sasquatch, but I could duplicate it for FFX, given an afternoon...

140235
Some current character work, using FFX '18. Styling was done with my homegrown hair tools, plus Lightwave's magnet. I do have some tip narrowing going on (via a gradient on fiber width, which wasn't easy to set up, because of FFX's tendency to update several million fibers at every little change). My settings do need some refinement, but I've got the render noise down to acceptable for trials levels.

Hey Kryslin,

That looks cool. Can you provide a screen shot of your bullet setting? I can't seem to get the end of the hairs to behave the way yours do.

Thanks in advance,

Kryslin
02-23-2018, 12:11 AM
I'll have to dig out the scene and grab those screenshots over the weekend.

The trick has to do with shape retention; At the roots, you'll want it at 100%. Then, you'll want it to fade to about 5% by the tips.

I also used a low poly collision object. If you need the guides to follow the head movement, you want shape lock set to "Rotation and Position", and a weight map for the head applied to the guides.

Oldcode
02-23-2018, 05:53 AM
I'll have to dig out the scene and grab those screenshots over the weekend.

The trick has to do with shape retention; At the roots, you'll want it at 100%. Then, you'll want it to fade to about 5% by the tips.

I also used a low poly collision object. If you need the guides to follow the head movement, you want shape lock set to "Rotation and Position", and a weight map for the head applied to the guides.

So, can I apply a weight map to Shape Retention to get that effect? I've been using it and Dampening to try to control the movements but it s not really working. As you an see from the GIF below, the hair near the tips is bouncing too much and the locks resting on the shoulders and chest are not moving enough. I had been using the weight maps on the mesh filter but it never occurred to me to use it on the Shape Retention. :confused: :twak: :eek:

140273

Kryslin
02-23-2018, 08:52 AM
You'll have one for mesh filter, and one for shape retention.

As you'll see, I used 2 objects. 1st, we have the collision hull:
140278
Nothing too fancy here. Just a deforming body, controlled by the rig on the character.

Next up is the hair guides:
140279
Note that I have a weight map for mesh filter, and that I have a texture on shape rentention.

That texture is this gradient:
140280

This is where I fine tuned the shape retention effect.
I basically have 100% at the roots, and 5-10% at the tips. I wrote my own tool for making the weight map, but there is a script out there called weight outwards that will do the job, too.

Some notes:
1 - Never let shape retention go to 0.00%. Soon, your character will look like cousin It from The Addam's Family.
2 - You don't neeed to be exact with the mass of the collision hull / guides, but you do need to have them.
3 - The gradient is a far easier means of tuning things than re-doing the weight map every time, and risking a crash from the Hub.

jwiede
02-23-2018, 11:24 AM
That sounds like an unduly large amount of user effort for one of the most common use cases for hair (attached to deforming character mesh with dynamics).

It's fine to offer lots of adjustable parameters, etc. but the defaults need to favor and optimize for the most common use cases.

Kryslin
02-23-2018, 12:12 PM
After I had gotten the job done, suggestions here led to quicker and less painful ways to set up the weight maps - one not requiring any 3rd party tools.

I do agree, though, setting something like this up should be easier than it was, or at least easier to gert the basic set up done. Still, everything needed to do this was in the documentation, it was up to me to figure out how to get it done.

jwiede
02-23-2018, 02:18 PM
After I had gotten the job done, suggestions here led to quicker and less painful ways to set up the weight maps - one not requiring any 3rd party tools.

I do agree, though, setting something like this up should be easier than it was, or at least easier to gert the basic set up done. Still, everything needed to do this was in the documentation, it was up to me to figure out how to get it done.

Thing is, currently the FFX "defaults" don't appear configured to optimize any use case, they're kind of "equally-unoptimized" in that most common use cases require quite a bit of user effort. Unfortunately, that also means most common use cases incur significant chance of setup errors as well. Obviously, the less setup required, the less chance for users to screw it up for the most common use cases.

That's one of those "efficient UX" details that often gets misunderstood: Efficient UX isn't just about user convenience, it's also about minimizing chances for user error in the most common use cases (in order to reduce maintenance and support needs). Done properly, it benefits the company at least as much as it benefits the users.

Oldcode
02-23-2018, 07:00 PM
Hey Kryslin,

Thank you so much. I'm seeing definite improvement. One question, on the gradient, what is the values you use for the two bottom keys? You have the top key selected so I can see that one at 0, but I can't see the value on the others. I'd like to use your values as a starting point. I've been trying different settings all day and it's not quite right. Usually the entire hair is too stiff, where as before it was too bouncy. There's something about the relactionship between the Gradient and the Weight Map I don't understand.

I've been using Paint Weights which has been very handy. I tried Weight Outward, which normally is very good too, but there's something about my hair model Weight Outward doesn't like.

Thanks again,

Kryslin
02-23-2018, 11:41 PM
Ok, the middle key is set to 0.0, and the value is 0. The bottom most key, which has a value of 1.0, is set somewhere in the .3 - .4 range.

Oldcode
02-24-2018, 04:30 PM
Thanks! I'll give that a try. Another issue that's been messing me up is my collision has not been working because of some scaling changes that I've done. I'll have to figure that out first.

Oldcode
02-26-2018, 10:54 AM
Hey Kryslin,

Thanks again for all your help. I think I've finally got it! :D

Spent a good part of the weekend experimenting with different settings in the weight map/gradient texture, but finally found one that works.

Check it out!

140356

One thing I discovered is that Bullet does not seem to like kinematic objects that have their points changed by either bones, morphs, or baked MDD files, to be used as collision objects. Bullet maps the collisions where they are at frame 1 and do not follow the geometry as it moves through the scene. At least I've not found a way yet. In the mean time, I've been using proxy objects parented to certain points on the character's geometry to act as collision objects for the hair. I'll star with one for the head, right and left arms, right and left shoulders, and the chest.

Thanks again and thanks to GreenLaw for the idea of using the simple proxy objects parented to the character.

Kryslin
02-26-2018, 11:36 AM
Ah, yes. Much better. Glad to have been of assistance.

Oldcode
02-28-2018, 08:35 AM
Hey Kryslin,

Thanks again for your help. Here's an interesting problem. Check out the clip below.

In order to improve the collisions of the chest and shoulders, I made up some new proxy objects. Problem is, the one I have parented to the Right Shoulder keeps twitching around. It's parented to a point on the top of the shoulder. The left shoulder has no problems and the hair collisions work very well. I can't figure out why its working on one shoulder and not the other. The problem only starts when I start the simulation in Bullet.

Any ideas?

140406

Kryslin
02-28-2018, 09:22 AM
Are those bullet shapes, or actual geometry?

I'd check the scene for key frames on the right shoulder object that don't belong there - namely, anywhere but the set up frame.

Other than that... It might be how you've got the shapes parented to the nulls...?

Oldcode
02-28-2018, 12:49 PM
No, those are not bullet shapes. I made those in Modeler so they are sized for the shoulders, head and arms.

I created a series of nulls to follow certain points and then parented the proxy objects to them. This is how I have the hair object follow the girl's head. This works very well, until I turn on Bullet, and as soon as I turn Bullet off, the twitching disappears, telling me that it's not the null the object is parented to, its the object itself reacting strangely to bullet.

Oldcode
03-04-2018, 07:20 PM
Hey Kryslin,

Are you using 2018 yet? The reason I ask is I spoke to Newtek and they said that yes, there's a bug in Bullet that is probably causing the twitching of the proxy objects I described before. They suggested that I should download the 2018 demo and that should solve the problem, which it seemed to, but now I've got all kinds of other problems.

Every time I try to use the Make Path tool so I can parent to a point, Layout crashes, and Bullet is acting completely crazy. If I forget to click Enable Dynamics off before I make a change or add something, Bullet completely bogs down. I have to spend the next 5 minutes clicking on abort to get it to stop so I can make my changes. Plus, whey I try to use the dynamic hair even with the same settings as 2015, the hair acts like its being hit by a whirlwind and I can't figure out why.

At wits end! :bangwall:

Oldcode
03-04-2018, 07:36 PM
UPDATE: Just realized that the X field for Gravity in Bullet was not set to zero but was at 8 M. Don't know if I did that, or it was setup like that by default. I don't remember going in the World tab and even looking at Gravity so I don't know how I did that if it was me. Uggggh! :eek:

Kryslin
03-05-2018, 09:50 AM
Hey Kryslin,

Are you using 2018 yet?

Yes, I am. No, I haven't played with bullet in 2018 yet, I'm still taming render settings in FFX.

Oldcode
03-08-2018, 05:47 AM
Hey eveyrbody,

Anybody else seen this in 2018 yet? Same scene file, same camera angel, same FiberFx setting, both using the Real Lens camera.

In 2018, the hair looks like straw, and its rendering over the character's head. :eek:

2015
140561


2018
140560