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View Full Version : Planninbg a new PC, have CPU improvements stalled?!



starbase1
12-31-2015, 04:40 PM
I'm warming up to getting myself a new PC in a few months, and the heaviest duty task will (of course) be rendering in lightwave.

When I look at processors though, they don't seem to have come on much. My 3 year old system has an Intel Core i7 3770K Processor. Looking at benchmark sites, things like Intel Core i7 6700K Skylake are top of the list, but these only benchmark at about 50% better, and I was expecting more in the 3 year gap. And its not like there are more cores / threads that I can spot.


Did someone switch off Moore's law when I wasn't looking?
Or am I missing something really obvious here?
Can I get something that's double the horsepower without a second mortgage?



Nick

Surrealist.
12-31-2015, 04:48 PM
You did not miss anything. They have stated that these last developments were in other aspects than pure core speed.

But the nice thing about the 6700K is that it is really tuned for overclocking. I just got one. And I think, bang for the buck it is a pretty good deal. Un -overclocked it is 4.0. I had it up to 4.4 I think at one point in some render tests but that was on an MSI board I wound up trading in for an Asus because of ram compatibility. And if you are looking for MB stay clear of MSI for 6th gen chips. Go with Asus and save yourself the headache.

I had to buy a huge fan for the K version, and I have not pushed the limits of what it can do. But I will be playing with it more to see how far I can push it for renders on my new MB.

If you want double, think of a second machine with less specs than your new workstation but that can be used for rendering only.

paulk
12-31-2015, 06:21 PM
You didn't mention any kind of budget, but as an example, the i7-6700K with 4 cores at 4.0 GHz is $419.99 on newegg.com, while an i7-5820K with 6 cores at 3.3 GHz is 408.68. The 5820K is a bit slower in clock speed, but you can overclock it, and it has 50% more cores. The i7-5930K is also 6 cores at 3.5 GHz for $625.43. Is .2GHz worth $216.75?

One possibiility might be to just throw your money at one or more high-cuda NVidia cards and use Octane to render. I've seen very imprressive render times posted by people using Octane.

meshpig
01-01-2016, 01:13 AM
Moore's Law went parallel years ago. Buy a Mac and relax :) Like the Continuously Variable Transmission, talking of "horsepower".

starbase1
01-01-2016, 02:36 AM
You didn't mention any kind of budget, but as an example, the i7-6700K with 4 cores at 4.0 GHz is $419.99 on newegg.com, while an i7-5820K with 6 cores at 3.3 GHz is 408.68. The 5820K is a bit slower in clock speed, but you can overclock it, and it has 50% more cores. The i7-5930K is also 6 cores at 3.5 GHz for $625.43. Is .2GHz worth $216.75?

One possibiility might be to just throw your money at one or more high-cuda NVidia cards and use Octane to render. I've seen very imprressive render times posted by people using Octane.

I'm thinking about 2000 pounds, (which will probably get the same as 2000 dollars)

rustythe1
01-01-2016, 06:33 AM
actually they get twice as much for the buck, (its cheaper to buy HDDs and GPUs from the states direct on ebay and egg and pay import charges rather than buy from uk) I would maybe wait a little as they are releasing 28 core xeons in the not too distant and those will also translate over to the core i7 at some point soon after (the should be due a new jump in the extreme range this year at some point)

paulk
01-01-2016, 06:55 AM
I'm thinking about 2000 pounds, (which will probably get the same as 2000 dollars)

Newegg.com converts prices based on destination country. The pound converted to $1.47.

So, i7-5960x 8 core, 3.0 GHz at $1049.99, ASRock X99 Extreme4 ATX mobo at $210.99, Crucial CT32G4RFD4213 32Gig $257.11 each x 4 = 1028.44

GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 980 Ti DirectX 6 Gb video memory, 2816 video stream processors (I assume = cudas) $689.99.

Grand total $2979.41 or 2026.81 pounds.

This, of course assumes you reuse the case, power supply, hard drives, monitor, etc.

Spending other people's money is fun!!!

rustythe1
01-01-2016, 10:39 AM
indeed, but we have to pay VAT over here if purchased in the uk, or import duty added at checkout on egg, but that's why you can often save as the import duty can be less than VAT, the new ebay international delivery system is where big savings can be made (I recently got some non electrical goods for a fraction of the price than the uk, and they only took 4 days to get here, during xmas post!)

paulk
01-01-2016, 02:10 PM
First off, I have no experience with eBay. I've looked but didn't touch. No opinion one way or the other.

The prices for the components I listed were comparable on eBay to NewEgg. There were some prices somewhat lower than on NewEgg, but for used stuff. Luck of the draw?

Return policies varied from "NO!" to "Only if you don't open the box!" to "Get an RMA number and send it back. We'll test it, and if we think it's good, we'll send the same unit back to you".

As for import duty, would you save on an all-in-one order as opposed to 4 separate orders with great prices?

starbase1
01-02-2016, 10:13 AM
Thanks all.

Having 6 left thumbs on each hand, I'm not going to go for the component route...

I'm more interested right now in identify what hardware I want - sourcing once that decision is made is the easy (if expensive!) part!
Nick

jeric_synergy
01-02-2016, 04:26 PM
Having 6 left thumbs on each hand, I'm not going to go for the component route...
Systems are no more complicated than many LEGO sets, and about as difficult to put together.

For the price of a couple beers you can probably cajole a friend into putting it together. Beers AFTERwards- very important.

DogBoy
01-03-2016, 04:02 AM
Nick, I'd happily put it together for you. I haven't seen you in years and it would be lovely to catch up.

rustythe1
01-03-2016, 04:36 AM
if you buy parts from places like scan they will put most of it together and test it for you without extra charge, I got a procerssor, ram, motherboard and cooler, they put it all together, overclocked it, then packaged it into a special box so all I had to do was fit my existing drives and some new GPUs, PSU into an existing case. scan are quite cheap on top, http://www.scan.co.uk/

sadkkf
01-04-2016, 12:54 PM
I'm actually looking at a new system, too. Planning on the i7 5820K with DDR4 RAM.

An IT friend of mine told me someone at Tom's Hardware seriously overclocked a Skylake CPU that was supposedly unclockable and are getting 4+ GHz.

Does anyone have thoughts on speed vs cores? I was planning on a 6-core CPU over faster 4-core models thinking it would perform better in the LW world.

Danner
01-05-2016, 03:54 AM
More cores = faster renders.
Faster cores = better modeler performance.

rustythe1
01-05-2016, 09:43 AM
well I have the 6 core x980 and the 8 core x5960 I can clock both to 4.5ghz on air, and on paper apart from more cores on the 5960 they are almost the same, however my x5960 will render up to 2 or 3 times as fast as the x980, so I think it is finding a good combination of all elements, I think one of the benefits of the 5960 and my MB setup is the time that is spent going from 0 to 100% when rendering, when your doing renders with frames that are maybe 5 to 10 seconds time spent at 100% is much greater when everything works well with each other, so not just your processor, but your ram and motherboard also can have a large impact, I went with rampage V extreme which is one of the only boards that can tap into the extra OC parts of the core I7 (there are extra pins on the chip that only connect to the socket on that board and possibly the asus x99 deluxe) so think of it that your MB and ram are providing the acceleration, and your cpu your top end, like with cars if you have a short road race, a car that is quick of the lights but a slow top end will beat a big heavy muscle car that has a big top end but takes time to get there

Danner
01-05-2016, 10:22 AM
The 980 and the 5960 are from very different architectures (the 980 came out in 2010 and the 5960 2014) so yeah processor speed and number of cores aren't the only factors, architectural differences and quality MB and appropriate components also play a part.

In the high end of the spectrum, Moore's law is not lagging to far behind, but it sure is getting expensive to have the latest Dual Xeon machine.

I'm still using a dual 8 core Xeon I bought in 2012, finally the newest i7s are starting to catch up to it. But now Xeons are at 18 cores each and soon 22 each.

mouse_art
01-05-2016, 01:16 PM
True,
I use a 3930K ([email protected] stock) after 3 years i replaced my stock closed loop cooler with a bequiet(airblock with 2x 140mm fans), could push it to 4.3 but was a getting little to hot for daily use. (yeah watercooling would do the trick... but my gfx card has it already and produces even more heat..^^ and no budget for HW currently)
But with 4.0 i am currently fine because my GFX card is my bottleneck currently i think.
3930k is 3 or 4 years old?
Its a hungry CPU, and produces a lot of heat but it was every cent worth imo. (mybe not so on the power bill ;-) )



You didn't mention any kind of budget, but as an example, the i7-6700K with 4 cores at 4.0 GHz is $419.99 on newegg.com, while an i7-5820K with 6 cores at 3.3 GHz is 408.68. The 5820K is a bit slower in clock speed, but you can overclock it, and it has 50% more cores. The i7-5930K is also 6 cores at 3.5 GHz for $625.43. Is .2GHz worth $216.75?

One possibiility might be to just throw your money at one or more high-cuda NVidia cards and use Octane to render. I've seen very imprressive render times posted by people using Octane.

rustythe1
01-06-2016, 01:46 AM
I opted for the noctua tower cooler, their fans are a little more expensive than others but they are very quiet and the darker coloured ones will run up to 3000 or more RPM, most standard ones will not get above 1000 to 1500, even the lower brown noctuas will do 2000 rpm, so the 2 140mm on my tower provide almost as good as low end water cooling (if not better than the single fan 70 mark coolers) if it had got bad I was going to replace them with 3000 rpm but so far no need, its a massive cooler though, I had to extend part of my case to fit it, but it means I do not have to keep an eye on any maintenance to a water system (I read up on a lot of tests and the 0 maint closed system ones were so minimal in difference over good towers it was not worth the extra cost and risk of having moving parts you could not here fail, IE the pump)

kopperdrake
01-06-2016, 05:07 AM
With my recent system I found an i7-5960X overclocked at 4.2GHz was better bang for buck than going the Xeon route - taking the whole system into account. I also went to Scan, getting fed up with building my own systems through lack of time and having to learn anew every time, and they were fantastic. Rock solid system and they overclock for free as part of the build.

cresshead
01-06-2016, 06:51 AM
10 core (20 threads of goodness) i7's are due out this year

http://wccftech.com/intel-2016-roadmap-leaked-confirms-kaby-lakes-10-core-broadwelle-apollo-lake-processors/

ianr
01-06-2016, 07:49 AM
Starbase,
In the U.K.Titans 6gig gfx cards are about now
310, i believe secondhanded @ Cex Exchange pawn stores.
But in case you get a damaged clock one they offer 6 month
Refund policy, with that it may be worth a punt. ..?
i,m considering that at least. ,if you want to hedge the gpu route.

Incidentally,Intel have crippled sales of certain types of Amd's
CPU,s ,with their performance leverage. SO Intel don't have to
react to anybody except their own internal release policy.
Trickle down from server chips I feel is not a urgent update
in their present climate.

squarewulf
01-07-2016, 04:36 PM
Dual Xeon CPU's