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View Full Version : Apple to buy 3d studio max



fronzel
12-09-2003, 01:51 PM
http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=264

Well looks Like apple might buy 3d studio max. I'm not sure what to think of this.

Latley I must say I have'nt been to impressed with newteks apple division. seems like us mac users get the short end of the stick. This panther thing and that 7.5c upgrade that also broke some things. Differnt prices for mac and pc.

I'm not saying the panther thing is newteks fault. After all it worked fine before jaguar. just seems like a serios lack of conection between apple and newtek.

I don't want to change 3d apps I know Lightwave really well. But more and more it's starting to look like I'm going to have to switch to either maya or maybe even 3d studio if it becomes an apple product. I'll switch apps but I'm not going to switch computers.

So please Newtek redouble your efforts on the mac front!

Beamtracer
12-09-2003, 03:19 PM
You can't be serious that you'd want to switch to 3ds Max?

For a start, the Apple buyout claim is still very much a rumor with very little evidence except a claim that Apple execs met with Discreet execs. That would be nothing unusual.

Over the past year or so Apple has been rumored to be buying Alias (which didn't happen), Luxology (which didn't happen), and now Discreet. I wouldn't put much weight to the rumor.

But, just for the discussion's sake, why would they want Discreet anyway? 3DS Max is completely overrated. Apple already has Shake, which is a better compositing app than Combustion.

The only reason I can see that Apple would buy Discreet is if it was a complete fire sale, and Apple thought they could scoop up the remains of Discreet at a bargain basement price.

fronzel, you don't want 3DS Max. Lightwave is a much better product. Max's main feature is that it has lots of plug-ins, but it's other features are nothing special.

If Apple bought Max they would have a hard time porting it to the Mac. Discreet in the past has entertained the idea of porting Max to the Mac. However they realized it was too hard.

3DS Max has lots and lots of legacy C++ computer code that is completely Windows specific. It's such a mess that to unravel it to port it would be too difficult.

The market for 3D apps is fiercely competitive, and almost all the major players are making no money on it. On the face of it, it seems Discreet is finding the going tough. It would be interesting if Max became the first victim of this war.

mlinde
12-09-2003, 03:47 PM
Read the text carefully. The product in discussion is not 3DS, it's Cleaner (formerly Terran Media Cleaner). Discreet's not on the rocks, just the only Mac product they make.

pixym
12-09-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
you don't want 3DS Max. Lightwave is a much better product. Max's main feature is that it has lots of plug-ins, but it's other features are nothing special.

Beam,

Have you ever used 3DS Max6 or a older version?
I hope you had used it at least one time! If not you do not sound realistic...

fronzel
12-09-2003, 04:33 PM
No I really don't want to switch.

I guess I was just being parnoid and I did'nt realize studio max was so PC dependent.

Opps look like I jumped the gun.


Read the text carefully. The product in discussion is not 3DS, it's Cleaner (formerly Terran Media Cleaner). Discreet's not on the rocks, just the only Mac product they make.

Anyways this 3d war you mentioned is right here in my office. One of my coworkers the anouther 3d guy is flying the flag for XSI softimage. Wich I think is overly complicated. I can bang stuff out in a quarter of the time. and use other machines to network render unlike his lone PC.

It's crazy how compeditve the 3d war is your right beamtracer. Thats why I worry about lightwave sometimes. I really think it's the best. Seems like everyone I talk to uses a differnt 3D app.

except for you guys.

Beamtracer
12-09-2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by mlinde
Read the text carefully. The product in discussion is not 3DS, it's Cleaner



Original text from Appleinsider.com
"Specifically, rumors entail a potential Apple purchase of all intellectual property assets and development teams associated with Discreet's Combustion, Cleaner, 3dsmax, and other desktop video products."

Aegis
12-09-2003, 06:23 PM
Hmm... seems highly unlikely that Max would become an OSX-only product but boy would I like to see it - It'd send serious shockwaves through the video games industry...

jasonwestmas
12-09-2003, 10:11 PM
Last I heard from some discreet fellows who came to my school was that Max was written specificly for windows only. To make Max run on any other platform would take a major program reconstruction facelift. Which Max needs anyway. . .;)

mlinde
12-09-2003, 10:28 PM
Mud on my face. I wasn't looking at Appleinsider, I was reading from a different site that covers both news and rumors. Can't remember which either. Regardless, the practicality of acquiring the rights to a product discreet is no longer supporting and developing, vs. acquiring the entire company, is a big difference. I could see Cleaner going to Apple, but the whole of Discreet is a BIG company:
- 3DS Max
- Combustion
- Inferno
- Flame
- Flint
- Fire
- Cleaner
and more.

With the mac dev team for Cleaner being cleaned out, it seems more likely to be a target than the whole kit & kaboodle.

On this note, I regret to inform you all (although some of you will be happy) that I am no longer able to participate in rumor/speculation threads. And I can't say anything else about it. I will still be around, and still help out with issues, but I'm off the rumormill. Later...

Beamtracer
12-10-2003, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by mlinde
Mud on my face.
Don't worry :)



Originally posted by mlinde
I could see Cleaner going to Apple, but the whole of Discreet is a BIG company
I tend to agree with you there. Apple would have more interest in Cleaner than the rest of Discreet.

Now you get lots of Windows users whingeing that Apple buys applications and turns them into Mac-only applications.

What about Discreet? It took a perfectly good Mac-only application (Cleaner), bought it out, and then axed the Mac version, turning it into a Windows-only app.

I can see why Apple is holding meetings with them right now.


Originally posted by mlinde
On this note, I regret to inform you all (although some of you will be happy) that I am no longer able to participate in rumor/speculation threads. And I can't say anything else about it.
Michael, you and I almost always took a different opinion to things, but your contribution was always welcome.

Speculation is not a sin. In fact it's the most popular thing to do on the Lightwave forum.

Have a look at the Community section where everyone is madly speculating about Lightwave 8 and what its release date will be. If you look at the top of that page there are always crowds of "lurkers" watching but not posting, hoping to get the first glimpse of LW8 when it is announced.

Speculation is a favorite past-time. Don't feel guilty to add your comments.

Ade
12-10-2003, 07:53 AM
Out of all those apps you missed one that MAKEs a difference -


A U T O C A D ......!


gte this app and u get the architectural scene, then get 3ds and u get the best app to read .dwg and rhino files.

3ds has some great stuff like instances and windows generators that LW doesnt have.. i wish LW had instances..

I do not see this deal happening cause of 3ds, its too DOS based and even at that its not a solid app, I cannot see this coming to PPC platform..

Then again AUTODESK did send a partition to architosh.com and asked mac ppl if they wanted Autocad which itself is very dos based in its code..


Incidently Apple is one og the hosts at the The Digital Architect Tour...

I feel theres heaps of money to be had in architecture were Apple onced ruled and in some ways still does.

silvergun
12-10-2003, 08:03 AM
They don't need cleaner, they have other apps that are far superior. Maybe they just want to buy out the rivals so everyone will have to go mac for video editing.

As for Studio Max, it's a terrible application that's way too over priced, buy out luxology and alias and the mac will be unstoppable for creative 3d artists. I've seen modo run and it's genius the way you can build it into what you want, it's modeler looks like the next generation of lightwaves modeler, add in alises ties with the movie industry and great plug ins and you have 1 deadly app. Maybe even a cut down version of Pixar Renderman to finish it off (drools).

mlinde
12-10-2003, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by silvergun
They don't need cleaner, they have other apps that are far superior. Maybe they just want to buy out the rivals so everyone will have to go mac for video editing.
Um, this is no speculation, but a question. What application does the tasks Cleaner does, better? We are talking video compression, batched to a variety of output formats, in a single setup application, with a coherent UI and consistently solid results. I've been using Cleaner for over 5 years, and I can get similar results with just QT Pro, but I find it's counter-intuitive, and to get my various output versions, time consuming. Think about it -- you need
1) Quicktime Alternates (ie multiple movies compressed at various settings for sm/med/large viewing, with one "source" movie that detects QT settings)
2) WMV Windows Media files to support the non QT Windows crowd
3) All the metadata to identify the movie
4) watermarks to protect your IP.

Do this in another app as easily as Cleaner, and I'll consider buying that app.

trick
12-10-2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by mlinde
...Do this in another app as easily as Cleaner, and I'll consider buying that app.

Sorenson Sqeeuze Compression Suite !!!

Beamtracer
12-10-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by silvergun
Maybe they just want to buy out the rivals so everyone will have to go mac for video editing. The video editing world is going Mac anyway, regardless of what Apple does with Discreet.

I've always been wary of Discreet. They've always had a very Windows-centric attitude.

When Discreet bought Cleaner and Combustion, I wondered whether they would kill the Mac versions. Now, in the case of Cleaner, it has happened.

I'd be wary about purchasing Combustion if you want to use it on the Mac. It's looking very isolated in Discreet's Windows world.

fronzel
12-10-2003, 03:42 PM
When I was complaining about Newtek I said that one thing that urked me was the price differences for Mac and PC.

I decided to take a closer look at this and realized That there really isn't a difference.

Mac users can buy the full version for 800 clams. I'm not sure If this includes an upgrade to 8. But even if it doesn't and I did'nt already own LightWave It would still be fair to pay anouther 5 hundred and forget the compositing app that I would'nt want to use anyways. after all thats still a hundred bucks cheaper than it was one year ago.

So Once again I fired off my big mouth with out doing my home work.

My apologies to Newtek!
sorry I've been complaining about you so much latley.

We still love you though!(':D')

archiea
12-10-2003, 04:23 PM
If you want to go a step furhter, combustion 3.0 is shipping for the PC. No mac version yet....

And we complain about NT's commitment to the mac!!!!:)

Beamtracer
12-10-2003, 11:37 PM
I said in a different thread: Don't trust Discreet.

At least Newtek releases software for both platforms simultaneously.

Ade
12-11-2003, 01:57 AM
I want apple to get discreet and all 3ds scene..

mlinde
12-11-2003, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by trick
Sorenson Sqeeuze Compression Suite !!!
Um, I just looked at this, and you'd better take another gander at cleaner. The Mac version of Squeeze doesn't support windows media, in fact the supported media seems pretty slim in squeeze. Although the watch folder is nice feature (I like it with AE), overall I see fewer features. The big bonus with squeeze is getting Sorenson Pro. So for $449 USD I get a compression tool that isn't as robust as Cleaner and a $199 codec.

trick
12-11-2003, 10:19 AM
Yeah, you're right, I wasn't looking from a MAC-viewpoint. From a PC viewpoint I'm not a big Discreet Fan (even if I have - not use at the moment - MAX...) From a PC viewpoint Sorenson would offer anything I need: mostly resulting in the best quality (Sorenson Pro coded) flash FLV files which you can externally link in Flash MX2004. And to my knowledge this is something Cleaner XL does not directly support.

mlinde
12-11-2003, 10:51 AM
Yeah the flash export stuff definitely looks interesting, but for video output I really like Cleaner. I never used the Windows version, but I've owned and used the Mac one almost since it's release. Cleaner, plus the sorenson pro codec & flash export, would be a kick A&& tool. The MPEG hardware was nice way back when (not so much anymore) as well.

Beamtracer
12-11-2003, 05:44 PM
The demise of Cleaner may not affect Apple too much. It would be the perfect opportunity for Apple to expand the capabilities of Quicktime Pro and make it what Cleaner was.

drclare
12-12-2003, 02:19 AM
Hasn't anyone used Apple's new "Compressor" app that comes with FCP4 and DVD Studio Pro 2? It is a lot like cleaner, but i don't think supports Windows Media. But, if Apple gained Cleaner i would imagine that Cleaner technology would blend into Compressor. Plus, buyouts are not always about gaining a compettitor's product, but about deleting competition.