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prometheus
12-21-2015, 03:42 PM
Just installed blender 2.76 havenīt touched it for ages due to I couldnīt stand the UI...however.

Thought I would give it a try now again, I got a tip from a youngster using blender, asked him a bit about some things in lightwave UI I donīt like, and he gave me a tip.

Itīs about scaling values..could be textures or scaling transforms etc...in lightwave we can not scale x.y,z values uniformly in one go, youīd have to manually slide the values or enter or copy and paste..tedious.

in blender I got the tip of hold shift and drag select the mouse down over all the x,y,z values, keep holding shift and drag the mouse left or right to increase or decrease all the values at once, or simply enter a value numericly and all the values will be changed uniformly.

not sure if that is something that could be made to work similar in the lightwave UI.

The Blender UI has become better, still a bit cluttered in terms of UI look with icons that is hard to understand, the worst thing is how it is all organized/structured..at least they got the operator search etc.
still prefer the more minimalistic text UI and what I feel to be better organized tools and menus in lightwave, though there are some things lw UI could and should enhance definitely.

A bit of topic for this thread...
creating fluid smoke is dead easy and it seems to be simulating very fast too...have to see how far one can push that..itīs at no cost at all ..compared to the cost of lightwave And TurbulenceFD together.

JoePoe
12-21-2015, 04:56 PM
Nodes are even easier? (if you're used to them I guess)
Instead of highlighting three things, you just change one.

131562

djwaterman
12-21-2015, 06:57 PM
They need to put a little chain link icon next to the values so you can link or un-link the values.

prometheus
12-22-2015, 05:14 AM
Nodes are even easier? (if you're used to them I guess)
Instead of highlighting three things, you just change one.

131562

well to me that is a no way work around, you would have to add nodes in order to change the scale uniformly..which in such case would be easier faster to scale individually, besides to be useful.. this would only work with already set up items for easy acess...and it wonīt work with hypervoxels for instance and a lot of other stuff.
so no..that apprach is slower than hightlighting all values in blender, and in blender you do not highlight them with clicking each value individually itīs a click and drag to highlight all at once...so I would say the highlight process is way faster than nodes which also requires to add the nodes for a starter...it should be in the UI not in the node addon surface controls.


They need to put a little chain link icon next to the values so you can link or un-link the values.

vue has a lock icon, could work here too, or as you describe it with a link icon..
houdini has middle mouse I think, and in blender ..just hold shift and drag mouse down to select all values ...and at the same time drag values right or left to scale them at once.

Must add..with a node scalar control...you would have to break the node and go back to individual control for controlling only on value..z for instance, but when it is implemented in the UI as blender has, you can easy change in a fast way if you want individual scale or uniformly/global scale...a huge difference.

JoePoe
12-22-2015, 08:49 AM
He he.....Not a work around, the future! :D

Once you get more complicated than a single isolated xyz set, it's a HUGE time saver. Probably one of the biggest in LW!
You can change [insert any #] of procedurals at the same time. In layers u have to select a layer, select xyz (at same time), make change, select new layer, select xyz, make change, select new layer etc etc etc................
Not only that, but usually (for me) even just ONE procedural will be used on different settings: Color, Reflection, Bump... what have you.
That's even worse in Layers. You have to make the change, copy layer, close the whole Layer panel for that attribute and open another panel, locate the layer to change and paste/replace, repeat.
I hated that. I live in the Garden of Eden now :). All of that can be changed with one input.
Plus you unleash the unlimited flexibility of the nodes environment. Your creativity will soar.

For an isolated set of inputs, yeah the initial node setup will be slower, marginally.
Fine if you're working with just one layer for one attribute.

Voxels?? which settings? Works here.

131566 (sorry, my original setup was too complicated ;))

To the last point, not sure I understand. Of course you can change x y or z individually without breaking a chain (see above also).
You can do whatever you want to it anywhere along the way. The options go on and on and on.
... and we haven't even mentioned the "global" node value plugins.

Should there have been a "constrain values" option in Layers section back in the day? Sure..... many years ago.

There is a drawback with the above network though. If I start with a certain value and I change it with several math functions and plug it into the surface, the value doesn't get updated as it travels down the chain. At the very least, it would be nice if the end point displayed the final value.

Maybe there's a node for that :)

(Edit: found one... Input Spy. It's an extra little node hanging off to the side, but gives u updated values nonetheless. Edit 2: Hmmm, only goes to two decimal places though on vector. Which means it really won't report on anything under 10mm other than a round up/down, and nothing at all under 1mm)

prometheus
12-22-2015, 03:07 PM
He he.....Not a work around, the future! :D

Once you get more complicated than a single isolated xyz set, it's a HUGE time saver. Probably one of the biggest in LW!
You can change [insert any #] of procedurals at the same time. In layers u have to select a layer, select xyz (at same time), make change, select new layer, select xyz, make change, select new layer etc etc etc................
Not only that, but usually (for me) even just ONE procedural will be used on different settings: Color, Reflection, Bump... what have you.
That's even worse in Layers. You have to make the change, copy layer, close the whole Layer panel for that attribute and open another panel, locate the layer to change and paste/replace, repeat.
I hated that. I live in the Garden of Eden now :). All of that can be changed with one input.
Plus you unleash the unlimited flexibility of the nodes environment. Your creativity will soar.

For an isolated set of inputs, yeah the initial node setup will be slower, marginally.
Fine if you're working with just one layer for one attribute.

Voxels?? which settings? Works here.

131566 (sorry, my original setup was too complicated ;))

To the last point, not sure I understand. Of course you can change x y or z individually without breaking a chain (see above also).
You can do whatever you want to it anywhere along the way. The options go on and on and on.
... and we haven't even mentioned the "global" node value plugins.

Should there have been a "constrain values" option in Layers section back in the day? Sure..... many years ago.

There is a drawback with the above network though. If I start with a certain value and I change it with several math functions and plug it into the surface, the value doesn't get updated as it travels down the chain. At the very least, it would be nice if the end point displayed the final value.

Maybe there's a node for that :)

(Edit: found one... Input Spy. It's an extra little node hanging off to the side, but gives u updated values nonetheless. Edit 2: Hmmm, only goes to two decimal places though on vector. Which means it really won't report on anything under 10mm other than a round up/down, and nothing at all under 1mm)

Sorry joe..I just donīt get it how you possibly could say nodes is something of what to use as a replacement for bad UI control...maybe in the future it will be connected to everything..but itīs no excuse to Not implement it properly in the UI.
voxels..so, how do you change hypertexture scaling with nodes?..you canīt..you could try enter nodes, not the same thing since not all hypertextures are the same there..and you would have to enter nodes..add nodes connect it etc..you would be better of simply scaling the values as is ..in such case.

As it is now..it takes way longer time to enter nodes and set it up than fire up hypertextures from the main panel and change scaling.
and try add the dented hypertexture within nodes.itīs not available there...first you would need enter node editor, then add a scalar layer, then pull down dented in that layer. and then add scalar nodes to plugin to that scalar layer...what a mess.

nodes may be great for a lot of things..but shouldīt be an excuse to use and a workaround for the bad UI control workflow.

JoePoe
12-22-2015, 03:11 PM
:D I can lead a horse to water.....

prometheus
12-22-2015, 03:22 PM
hypervoxels procedural nodes are not the same as they are in the direct acess menu, and you would have to turn on studio live to have it update..and it is jittery and slow often when using node editor with voxels.

Yeah..some of us has talents :)

JoePoe
12-22-2015, 03:57 PM
Seems like your initial complaint was quite a bit broader and now it all hinges on a couple exceptions within hypervoxels.

I love how you have thrown out the baby with the bathwater!!

Surrealist.
12-22-2015, 04:18 PM
Itīs about scaling values..could be textures or scaling transforms etc...in lightwave we can not scale x.y,z values uniformly in one go, youīd have to manually slide the values or enter or copy and paste..tedious.

in blender I got the tip of hold shift and drag select the mouse down over all the x,y,z values, keep holding shift and drag the mouse left or right to increase or decrease all the values at once, or simply enter a value numericly and all the values will be changed uniformly.


Actually I am not sure about older versions, but as far as I understand this is a new feature recently. But no need to hold down shift, just click and drag across the sliders. Or you can drag across and inter all 3 values at once.

LightWave is rather outdated in this regard. There is always the uniform scale tool in Layout. Just click and drag. But yeah Maya had this in the numeric interface for a while. Not sure how long. Blender only got it recently as far as I know.

But hopefully they will work on some of these little interface quirks in the future.

prometheus
12-23-2015, 07:17 AM
Actually I am not sure about older versions, but as far as I understand this is a new feature recently. But no need to hold down shift, just click and drag across the sliders. Or you can drag across and inter all 3 values at once.

LightWave is rather outdated in this regard. There is always the uniform scale tool in Layout. Just click and drag. But yeah Maya had this in the numeric interface for a while. Not sure how long. Blender only got it recently as far as I know.

But hopefully they will work on some of these little interface quirks in the future.

Thanks for the heads up on that..yes, I must have missed it was that simple, just click and drag in blender all values and drag..so that is great...yep maya had it for a while, houdini got the middle mouse I think, vue got a lock icon...how about modo...canīt recall?

I will take some painstakingly hours to get used to blender a bit more if I can, was impressed to see what a youngster showed me when I mentioned some things I miss in lightwave, still...I do not like the way things are organized and structure in blender..may take a while to get used to it and perhaps I will feel a bit more positive about blender UI later on...there is a reason I pay for Lightwave though..some of it is due to the speed of it..quality rendering and how it is organized..especially layout where you got your camera, lights, objects, bones ...Always visible and directly accessable, making it feel like a stage unlike most other software where you most ofthen would have to change menus..scroll and look in lists to get acess to cam., lights etc..

someone mentioned in a siggraph interview..lightwave got lights, cams, etc...well so do all other software..mostly :) but the answer should have been how those items are structured in the UI..and in the lightwave Feel..always visible and directly accessable.

For lightwaveI just wanīt those darn window modules enhanced with full scaling and docking and collapse/expand of menus in all that, and of course a fully interactive UI control that makes the changes without closing and starting lightwave.

Michael

Surrealist.
12-23-2015, 02:32 PM
Every software I use has a different way of organizing things, and yeah that can be daunting at first with Blender especially, I suppose. But once you learn it, kind of becomes like anything else.

But yeah for scene set up and rendering there are a lot of things to like about how LightWave layout is organized. I am also making my little list of annoying small items that could be added to the various panels that would make things less convoluted during set up.

Maybe I will start a thread on that to get some feedback/help. Things I have just forgot or don't know yet, other things I think might be legit simple feature requests.

prometheus
12-23-2015, 02:46 PM
Every software I use has a different way of organizing things, and yeah that can be daunting at first with Blender especially, I suppose. But once you learn it, kind of becomes like anything else.

But yeah for scene set up and rendering there are a lot of things to like about how LightWave layout is organized. I am also making my little list of annoying small items that could be added to the various panels that would make things less convoluted during set up.

Maybe I will start a thread on that to get some feedback/help. Things I have just forgot or don't know yet, other things I think might be legit simple feature requests.

annoying small items list in blender? you donīt happen to know where shaded wireframe is? can only find wireframe without solid mode in blender...had some annoyings about the text tool where to find how to write the text...things like that, had to search youtube and found that I need to hit tab key to get acess to the text, strange..

Surrealist.
12-23-2015, 04:17 PM
Well in that last case, it is because this is edit mode and you're editing the text. I know even for me it was strange at first even using Blender for a while. But that is the idea. You are adding mesh data, in this case Curve data.

Wire frame is handled in display properties of the Object (the Cube icon). Under display you'll find settings for visibility and so on.

Many annoying small things in Blender... lol. But I won't go into that here.

prometheus
12-23-2015, 05:58 PM
Well in that last case, it is because this is edit mode and you're editing the text. I know even for me it was strange at first even using Blender for a while. But that is the idea. You are adding mesh data, in this case Curve data.

Wire frame is handled in display properties of the Object (the Cube icon). Under display you'll find settings for visibility and so on.

Many annoying small things in Blender... lol. But I won't go into that here.

aha..oki..so itīs two places to display shading method, one in the method shading (icon next to the object mode) then one in the object list...guess it is that way so you can have different objects in different modes....confusing since I am only used to have one in lightwave...but I think I see the point of it.

cheers
Michael

Surrealist.
12-23-2015, 08:54 PM
Actually 4 display places all told, just cover it all.

The object display is related only to mesh data and general display properties. I would not call this a shading method as it is in LighWave where wireframe is an option. This would be akin to the Scene Editor where you set the display per item. But in Blender there are few additional options in that panel. To set the maximum display and then turn on and off wires, names and other attributes.

Then in Layout there is the view display. That is the one you are referring to as the second and it would be related to a shading method. In Blender, this is where you set the method of shading in the viewport as it relates to Open GL. And that ranges from Wireframe all the way to Rendered. The last being akin to VPR. In cycles Mode this turns the viewport into an ipr renderer and the shading samples are controlled in the Camera panel under the Sampling Tab.

The third option is further options related to shading. That is found in the Sading drop down in the Numeric panel on the right of the viewport (a familiar n will open and close the numeric panel). Don't ask me why shading is there... lol

But these options change depending on the shading medhod choses in the viewport.

The fourth option is in the Outliner to turn items visibility on or off and if they are rendered or not or selectable or not.

There is your basic primer for display. :)

prometheus
12-25-2015, 06:55 AM
Actually 4 display places all told, just cover it all.

The object display is related only to mesh data and general display properties. I would not call this a shading method as it is in LighWave where wireframe is an option. This would be akin to the Scene Editor where you set the display per item. But in Blender there are few additional options in that panel. To set the maximum display and then turn on and off wires, names and other attributes.


Then in Layout there is the view display. That is the one you are referring to as the second and it would be related to a shading method. In Blender, this is where you set the method of shading in the viewport as it relates to Open GL. And that ranges from Wireframe all the way to Rendered. The last being akin to VPR. In cycles Mode this turns the viewport into an ipr renderer and the shading samples are controlled in the Camera panel under the Sampling Tab.

The third option is further options related to shading. That is found in the Sading drop down in the Numeric panel on the right of the viewport (a familiar n will open and close the numeric panel). Don't ask me why shading is there... lol

But these options change depending on the shading medhod choses in the viewport.

The fourth option is in the Outliner to turn items visibility on or off and if they are rendered or not or selectable or not.

There is your basic primer for display. :)

thanks.