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View Full Version : 3D printing box error, can anyone fix this for me please!



Paul_Boland
12-06-2015, 09:23 AM
Hi Folks.

I created this gift box for a present to be put into and a lid to slide in on top. I want to 3D print it. The problem is, KISSlicer keeps popping up the errors window when I load it in to check it before printing. I have spent the past two hours looking for rouge polygons to fix and I can't see it. I think it's something around the top inner corners of the box, this is where KISSlicer seems to highlighting edges but I can't for the life of get it fixed. The crazy thing is, the lid loads into KISSlicer perfectly and it's a LOT more detailed and that's the one I expect to have problems with!

Can anyone please help me out here and either tell me what I need to fix or could you please it for me? The model has two layers - Layer 1 is the model with square polygons as modelled and the Layer 2 is the model triangulated.

Thanks.

JoePoe
12-06-2015, 09:34 AM
You're not connected here on the back corners. 131366. (I moved that edge just to show u.)

I would delete this poly 131368



weld the points on the right to the points on the left. 131367

(both sides)

Edit: AND........

You have four interior polys that need to be deleted. They are back to back pairs inside the same corners.

131370

Paul_Boland
12-06-2015, 12:25 PM
Thank you very much, JoePoe, that has it sorted :)!! I'll pop up a photo of the finished print once it's done. Very much appreciate the help!!

spherical
12-06-2015, 04:55 PM
Good job Joe. I took a look at this anyway, as Paul and I went through some stuff earlier.

The Statistics panel shows the corner point anomalies as Points on 2 Polygons. Hit the + and they become selected. Then it's up to you to decide the best avenue to get rid of them. Simply welding seems like it would be enough, but the internal poly is still there. Takes a bit of an experienced eye, but you can see them, even in Wireframe when comparing the lines in a corner when viewing the corner at a 45į angle. There is one vertical line on one side and not one in the corresponding location on the other. Swiping across it selects both internal polys, Delete, and good to go to triangulation and export to STL.

When I'm modeling, whether for printing or not, I consolidate as many polys as possible. The top surface, for example has 18 polys. These can be combined to 1. In trying to perform this operation, Merge Polys would either have complained that the polys do not share the same edges or, in this case, perform the merge but, in Sketch view, immediately show the anomalies on both corners. Then you could know where the problems are and eliminate them before going to slice.

Some would say that it's a waste of time to merge polys when it's going to get triangulated anyway. Not so. Slicers don't like high aspect ratio tris. Combining the polys on the top surface diminishes the narrowness that would be unavoidable when triangulating the original surface, as there are points in the middle that will remain after triangulation. Get rid of them and you have a more relaxed, simpler mesh for the slicer to analyze.

Paul_Boland
12-06-2015, 07:37 PM
Hi Spherical. Thanks for all the help in the past and thanks for the advice here for future work. I'm still stunned that the lid had no issues whatsoever and it was the box that some rouge polygons and points. Anyway, here it is, the finished printed gift box...

The base is supposed to be gold but it looks more like toffee or caramel. The top is glow in the dark but itís very poor at glowing but visible (if not really legible in the dark). Overall print quality is very good. I have to try putting that gift into it but it should fit fine. Donít think Iíll buy gold filament again but the glow in the dark, as poor as it is, I would buy again. Total print time for both pieces is about six and a half hours, thatís two and a half for the lid and four for the box itself. Overall Iím very pleased.

spherical
12-06-2015, 10:53 PM
Pretty cool. He'll love it. :)

Looks like it may be ABS? KS has a Brim feature in the latest builds that can help hold down the corners/edges on the lower levels to prevent warping. Heated bed helps. too. There are also some modeling/design tricks to relieve the stress on long spans of material. Also, use a Sparse Infill on the thick walls. Only 2 Loops to form the visible sides and between them 30% Infill would A) cut the heat buildup that causes the warping and, B) take far less time to print.

BeeVee
12-07-2015, 12:50 AM
The only thing worse than rouge polygons is ones that are vert... ;)

B

Paul_Boland
12-09-2015, 06:21 AM
I'm really pleased with the print though not mad about the so-called gold filament, won't be buying that again. It was printed with PLA, that's all I use. Yes, there is some curvature at the corners but I cover the print bed with Scotch Blue Painter Tape and it has reduced that a good bit, plus allows the print to stick very firmly to it. The Micro 3D Printer doesn't have a heated print bed.

Thanks again to everyone for all the advice, much appreciated!!

wyattharris
12-09-2015, 08:20 AM
That came out really good Paul. Whoever is receiving it aught to love it.

spherical
12-09-2015, 02:01 PM
Hmmm, we never have any warping issues with PLA. One method other than blue tape is Kapton. Another that we use is a sheet of single thickness glass with a dust coat of Aqua Net hair spray. Too much hair spray and you'll have a difficult time getting the print off. The bottom surface then comes out glossy. Make sure you account for the glass by doing a Z Offset. You can use the hair spray on the tape as well to increase adhesion.

Paul_Boland
12-10-2015, 08:01 AM
That came out really good Paul. Whoever is receiving it aught to love it.

Thanks. The gift item fits nicely inside it too so just waiting for Mike's birthday to swing around now and give it to him.

- - - Updated - - -


Hmmm, we never have any warping issues with PLA. One method other than blue tape is Kapton. Another that we use is a sheet of single thickness glass with a dust coat of Aqua Net hair spray. Too much hair spray and you'll have a difficult time getting the print off. The bottom surface then comes out glossy. Make sure you account for the glass by doing a Z Offset. You can use the hair spray on the tape as well to increase adhesion.

I'm aware of the Kapton sheets but the Scotch tape is cheaper :)!! I've heard about the glass surface before, thanks for the feedback.

12-10-2015, 09:19 AM
A quick acetone vapor bath would make that all nice and shiny.
Might even help reducing the line-look as it will smooth those nicely.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=acetone%20vapor%20bath

DrStrik9
12-10-2015, 10:44 AM
Just don't have any open flame (such as a cigarette) in the room when you do the acetone vapor bath!

131414

m.d.
12-10-2015, 12:15 PM
I finally switched to glass after replacing my kapton 20 times....

For me glass with some glu stick works best....also you may not need a z offset as most leveling screws can adjust for the extra few mm's....worked for me

m.d.
12-10-2015, 12:17 PM
A quick acetone vapor bath would make that all nice and shiny.
Might even help reducing the line-look as it will smooth those nicely.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=acetone%20vapor%20bath

Acetone vapor only works with ABS....won't work on PLA
PLA needs commercial fillers

m.d.
12-10-2015, 12:26 PM
double post due to forum burp :)

12-10-2015, 02:26 PM
Chuckle...
Spaced that... have only been using abs and applied it to others. Gotta pay attention to pla usage.

Thanks for the clarification, m.d.
Robert

m.d.
12-10-2015, 04:01 PM
PLA is pretty popular.....super easy to print...but needs stuff like this to smooth
http://www.smooth-on.com/Epoxy-Coatings-XTC/c1397_1429/index.html

I like ABS as well, but as everything....it all depends on the brand, there is some pretty good PLA out there.

Right now I have been printing with Taulman alloy 910....brilliant stuff. Prints same speed as ABS....little no warping and tensile strength of 8300 psi (bridge nylon is 4500psi)

spherical
12-10-2015, 04:36 PM
Tetrahydrofuran works on PLA, but it isn't as aggressive as acetone on ABS. If you get some, make sure the cap remains taped around the circumference between uses. That stuff will escape from the bottle if you don't.

Wade
12-10-2015, 04:44 PM
My 2 cents - add 2 cents or some other item(s) to the pics so we ( I ) can get a sense of scale of the object. :) It just helps to know how well the printer is doing with fine detail.
While I don't yet have a 3D printer it is informative to read these posts as one day I hope to... nice work and project.
W.

12-10-2015, 04:51 PM
Thanks for that.
Hmm, is that truly pounds per square inch?

That would make for some amazing schtuff.
Robert

m.d.
12-10-2015, 06:08 PM
Thanks for that.
Hmm, is that truly pounds per square inch?

That would make for some amazing schtuff.
Robert

supposedly so
http://www.taulman3d.com/alloy-910-spec.html

it's actually only 8100....that's only tensile, there is still some small flex to it...but not much

here is a small NATO rail i did for some camera accessories....prints very nice especially for a nylon type material
131425

spherical
12-10-2015, 08:27 PM
I'm aware of the Kapton sheets but the Scotch tape is cheaper :)!! I've heard about the glass surface before, thanks for the feedback.

To improve adhesion to the bed in KISSlicer you can adjust a combination of Bed Roughness and Z-Offset to move the nozzle closer to the bed for the first layer. Increasing Bed Roughness increases the flow rate for the first layers in accordance with the added thickness, so that there is a proper amount of material supplied to fill the space. You can also limit the first layer feed rate to achieve more stick. IIRC, the Beta versions have separate first layer settings now, but I've stayed with an earlier version that I know works well until I have time to learn the new stuff and what it does and doesn't like.

It is always best to calibrate KS to your machine. You do that with Thin Wall and Solid Cube Calibration Tests. KS is a volume computation slicer, so it needs a sound baseline upon which to do the calculations for a given section of the model or overall settings in general. Attached is a PDF that I made; outlining the procedure. Once you get the Extrusion Width and Flow Tweak dialed in, a lot of things fall into place and the machine performs predictably.

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